Barbie, eat a sandwich
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My son is "skinny".
If he was a female, I'm sure people would mutter under their breath "eat a sandwich"
thankfully, he is not subjected to that sort of harassment.
He eats pounds of food daily and just does not keep the weight on.
I'm sure their are females with the same issue who hate to hear the phrase"eat a sandwich"
I am sure there are too, but that issue is way, way smaller than the pressure women have to not eat in order to stay thin, pretty (at least by media standards), and thus relevant.
Women are constantly bombarded by images of other women who are ludicrously thin. To say that we shouldn't encourage eating because there are thin women out there who eat a lot and would be hurt by it completely misses the point. There are way more women out there who are thin or want to be thin and try to get there by denying themselves food.
But at the same time, policing women's bodies is policing women's bodies.
i don't think the point is to compare how many more women are pressured to be thin with the number of women who are already thin. the point is to embrace all body shapes.
Definitely, but these girls are also generally 14 and are commenting on a really common problem with women. I think it's appropriate and fitting, looking at the number of eating disorders, especially that crop up around girls their age.
And telling someone with an eating disorder to "eat a sandwich" helps them...how, exactly?
It's not "telling someone with an eating disorder to eat a sandwich", it's "telling people to stop telling other people to not put ridiculous expectations on weight".
Am I seriously the only one here who sees that these are fourteen year old girls actively trying to make a comment on body expectations? Are you HONESTLY going to shoot them down because it's not perfectly politically correct?
I think it's abundantly obvious to anyone with any shred of a mind that telling people to eat isn't the best action, but the fact that these girls are getting up and making a statement about body expectation is outstanding, and I am completely unapologetic in applauding them for it. You can make as many sarcastic comments about it as you like.
I don't think this is intended for people with eating disorders. I know many women who pay into weight watchers, jenny craig, or basic calorie counting and would choose a lunch of an apple and a sald every single day to avoid putting on a pound. They make this choice in order to remain thin, or lose weight, because eating a sandwich is too many points/calories etc. and the beauty standards of our society leave many to believe that if you just 'put down the sandwich' and go for a run, then you'll fit in.
I dig it and give these bad-ass women props for taking a stance against Barbie- and it is just that- a big fuck you to the DOLL and the horrific standards of beauty that the doll symbolizes.
I did not say, "Let's not encourage eating"
It's very annoying when people rephrase something/ put words in someone's mouth, to make a point.
I pointed out a problem with that phrase. It would probably hurt the women out there who have been harassed for being very thin.
It is not encouraging a healthy body image, it is not accepting all bodies, thin, thick, long, short, and everything in between.
Ya' know, not just women, but as a mom who has been accused of not feeding my very thin son, I don't like to hear it either. BTW, he eats, he eats a lot, and I feel compelled to announce that because of thin prejudice statements we've dealt with over the years.
In the community I grew up in, women with thin legs were told they had "chicken legs". Not nice.
Not everyone in our US culture is told to be thin.
In the AA community, being "thick", and "having back" are preferable.
The lyrics are directed at a stupid doll that promotes a distorted image- that is better than if they were to use a real persons name (you could substitute any number of dieting celebrity's names) but, the phrase itself is probably hurtful to some of the population.
So in other words, we should care more about "normal" sized women who want be skinny than skinny girls and women who get teased for being skinny naturally? I don't agree with that statement at all.
However, I do think that this is a funny song because it's Barbie they are telling to eat a sandwich. Plus, these girls seem pretty thin themselves, so they probably wouldn't have a problem with skinny people in general. Let's not turn this into a fat vs. skinny debate, please.
I am one of those females who is eats a lot and can't gain weight. I do take offense when people imply that being skinny means that I am not a "real" woman, or use the term "skinny bitch," as if it possesses some kind of empowering connotation. However, I take no offense whatsoever to the phrase "Barbie, eat a sandwich," because the implication these girls are making is not there is something wrong with Barbie because she is so thin, but because she represents an unhealthy, unrealistic idealized woman. Also, it's funny, and possesses a message of which young women of their age group are not often reminded. Have a sense of humor.
Also, unrelated: I remember these girls form their interview on "Smart Girls Have More Fun," the web show with Amy Poehler! What ever happened to that show?
Have a sense of humor.
Wow, the last time I heard that was when a coworker (at NBC in the production office) made a Rape joke.
Have a sense of humor...wow.
Learn to take criticism.
Okay, I apologize. That statement was in bad taste.
I guess what I meant was that I feel like Jessica posted this video because she thought it was something fun that would make us happy. Young women with feminist intentions writing their own songs and expressing their creativity in a male-dominated field -- that's something I fully support. I feel like there are times when it is appropriate, even imperative, to be critical of the messages we receive in society. When people make rape jokes is definitely one of those times. But when a group of 14-year-olds write a song and make a cool video with feminist intentions, even if they slightly miss the mark as far as fitting into our very specific standards of what is perfectly appropriate, that is the sort of occasion when we should express our feminist values by being supportive of other women. Being fourteen is hard enough already. I can see where it's important to think critically about our culture and about the messages we receive from a feminist perspective, but at the same time I feel like sometimes we try and nitpick the bad things from something that's really headed in the right direction. For me, feminism has helped me feel empowered about my identity and my body and my choices, and for me, this is the most important aspect of feminism. Certainly there are occasions when it's more than appropriate to be critical, but when it comes to the creativity of fourteen year old girls, let's try and be supportive. They'll get to where we are as far as feminist critique eventually.
"...use the term "skinny bitch," as if it possesses some kind of empowering connotation..."
I don't know about that particular term, but being a thin woman DOES give you a certain amount of power and privilege in our culture compared to heavy women. I'm a bit tired of pretending that the treatment thin and fat women receive is somehow equivalent.
I realize you didn't say this, but the whole "I'm naturally a size double zero because I have a fast metabolism and small bones and good genes and people always ask me if I'm sick so I'm judged and criticized too" thing is very "what about the men/white people?" to me.
I've been overweight and underweight at different points in my life. There's a huge qualitative difference between the two. Our culture LOATHES and SHAMES and TORMENTS fat women, and glorifies thin women. When you've been on the receiving end, it becomes quite clear.
Thank you for saying this. With all the calling-out of privilege that happens on this board this is one argument that always gets shut down. I am really sorry that when anyone is made to feel bad about how they look but to pretend that being thin people have it just as tough as fat people in the United States is insane.
Uh, or it's a phrase used to completely dismiss the suffering of people with eating disorders. That's my reaction to that phrase. And I know I have thin privilege. But I was also told over and over again "just eat a sandwich" when I was really sick. Sorry to be snarky, but if we're going to talk about privilege, let's talk about ableism, too.
I agree, let's talk about ableism. Eating disorders suck. I have only me a few american women that do not have a complex relationship with food ranging from I sometimes eat things and then feel guilty all the way to full blown anorexia, bulimia and food addiction. They all suck, and it is mean to dismiss anyones suffering but the comment was not defending the video it was saying that pretending that society treats thin women and fat women the same is not true. It all does come from the same place, a woman's body is communal property, but our society certainly does value one body type other another and I don't think we can pretend otherwise because it makes people with privilege feel bad.
Please don't feel bad voluptuouspanic. No one on this board want's anyone to feel bad.
This is a really hard discussion and one that Feministing has never done well. Because like all persecution discussion it starts with
A: "I have it so bad" and then
B: "Wait, I have it bad too."
A: "Yeah but not as bad as me"
B: "yes-huh as bad as you."
C: "Well none of you have it as bad as me."
B: "We weren't even talking about you."
C: "Well then how dare you not talk about my super important suffering."
A: "Can't well all just agree that my suffering is the absolute worst"
B&C: "NO!"
D: "What about teh menz!"
A,B &C: "TROLL!"
All bow!
Skinny people are not denying their thin privilege, they are saying that thin women are attacked too because they ARE! We would not tell men or white people to suck it up if the language were "real people are women" or "real people have more pigment in their skin." Fat women are treated horribly, I know, and I want it to stop. But that doesn't mean that women who force themselves to eat fatty foods to gain weight don't matter enough to think about.
Thanks for saying that.
I've grown up overweight my entire life, and had to be taken out of school because of the emotional/physical trauma I faced on a daily basis. Growing up outside of school, I never went outside because I was stared at and even MOCKED by teenage guys every time I did. I'm so used to not being looked at as a woman because I'm overweight, and if I am it's by some sort of fetishist who likes me for just my body. All over television it's "Ooohhh Tyra/insert celebrity here gained five pounds, LOOK AT THE FLAB". "Tired of being fat? Lose those nasty pounds of belly fat."
I think I could feel good about myself, because I LOVE myself, fat and all, if I wasn't forced to endure such torment on a daily basis.
So no, skinny women don't endure half that scrutiny. Having to hear "Do you eat" once in a while but generally admired is nothing compared to the hell that some overweight girls have to go through, not to mention not being looked at by anyone in a positive light.
I'd say that anorexic girls also endured hell, but that seems to be changing with our obsession with the ribcage being visible in order for women to look pretty...compare our idea of beauty now to the idea of beauty 100 or even 50 years ago.
We're heading in a dangerous direction.
My biggest pet peeve is when people say something to the effect of "no MY problems are worse b/c of X." (For example: oh your dog died? well my aunt died so you should feel bad for me b/c that's so much worse.)
If you grew up overweight all your life you have absolutely no idea what it's like to grow up skinny and what kinds of things skinny people had to endure. Likewise people who grew up skinny have no idea what it's like to grow up overweight and endure all of things they had to endure.
Why can't we just support each other? Let's sympathize with the pain others had to endure and help each other establish a healthy self esteem. Saying "no I had worse than you" helps no one and just adds fuel to the fire.
I'd say that anorexic girls also endured hell, but that seems to be changing with our obsession with the ribcage being visible in order for women to look pretty...
I'm going to be charitable and assume you worded that poorly. Surely you wouldn't be suggesting that anorexic people (who have, you know, an illness that is difficult to recover from), will not be enduring hell due to visible ribcages being the beauty standard.
Look, this isn't about holding up two groups, determining which one faces more harm at the hands of society's body standards, and then concluding it's okay to snark on the other. It's not okay to snark on either group! We get snarked on because we're women and our bodies are deemed appropriate for public shaming. Condoning it for one group won't lead to liberating the other.
Yes, I worded that poorly, as so often happens in my case.
By "enduring hell" I meant from other people, not within. Of course anyone with an eating disorder suffers in terrible ways.
I'd say that anorexic girls also endured hell, but that seems to be changing
No, take it from me: a lifelong, misery-inducing, treatable-but-not-curable mental illness that's stigmatized as the result of vanity or patriarchal brainwashing and tossed around as a punch line or an insult is still hell. Our society does not treat mental illness sufferers one iota better than it treats fat people, and some brands of feminism seem to take it as a point of pride to treat them worse.
"Our culture LOATHES and SHAMES and TORMENTS fat women, and glorifies thin women."
That depends, very much, on who in our culture you're talking about.
I am a skinny woman. I was loathed and shamed and tormented by boys in junior high, as being too "manly" due in large part to having a flat-ish chest (my sister who is built on a similar frame but with smaller hips and a huge chest, received no such negative treatment).
However, my shape was glorified by the older ladies in my life.
These trends have continued, to less extreme extents, in my experiences as an adult woman. I don't think I have ever heard a guy my age express a preference for skinny women, but I have heard many, many guys my age say they like curvy women or make fun of skinny women.
So it's been a mixed bag, at the most.
If anything, I think women who are CURVY and AVERAGE have it easiest overall these days...
I think you kind of missed to point of the song. If Barbie were a "real" woman it would be impossible for her to survive. The size of her waist to hips would be the equivalent of less than a size zero. She would be more anorexic looking than most models. It shouldn't insult you when we critique the social stereotypes that women grow up with. I think most feminist would agree that they need to make Barbie actually look like a real woman. What Barbie does is create this idea to young girls that unless they have an extremely tiny waist, and big boobs aka the media stereotype for a hot woman, then they aren't good enough
my boyfriend is also "skinny," and feels such pressure to be bulkier and weigh more that it will literally throw him into a spiral of depression when someone makes a light-hearted remark about how "bony" or "scrawny" he is.
Unrealistic physical expectations harm everyone, male and female.
On the other hand, it seems like this video/song is just a response to the ridiculous conclusion that Mattell made that Barbie has "cankles." Although, I could only get through about 15 seconds of that video because I utterly loathe that kind of music. So I could be wrong...
Damn kids and their Rock n' Roll.
lol... Sorry, just kidding. I thought this post could use some lightheartedness.
Aww cute. But here's an idea for their next song "Everyone, stop fucking telling women what to eat or not eat."
Do you honestly expect 14 year olds to understand these kinds of feminist concepts? They are spreading a positive message about not letting the media police our bodies, not trying to police it themselves.
That's why this discourse is important. I expect 14 yr olds to take responsibility for their (lyrics) choices and understand the consequences.
That's why I said for their *next* song. That gives them time to develop their feminist consciousness and see that promoting a positive message by using an insult in an unironic* way is still insulting to the people to whom the offense is generally directed.
And yes, 14 year olds can be very savvy and feminist. Those of us over 18 don't have the monopoly on insight. The band is cute and spunky and I hope to see more from them in the future.
Also, I think you're confusing my comment with someone else's: I didn't say that they're policing women's bodies. For that matter, is Barbie? As far as I can see, she's standing mute on the issue.
*recognizing, of course, that even supposedly ironic use of insults as social commentary can be deeply offensive
That's why I said for their *next* song. That gives them time to develop their feminist consciousness and see that promoting a positive message by using an insult in an unironic* way is still insulting to the people to whom the offense is generally directed.
And yes, 14 year olds can be very savvy and feminist. Those of us over 18 don't have the monopoly on insight. The band is cute and spunky and I hope to see more from them in the future.
Also, I think you're confusing my comment with someone else's: I didn't say that they're policing women's bodies. For that matter, is Barbie? As far as I can see, she's standing mute on the issue.
*recognizing, of course, that even supposedly ironic use of insults as social commentary can be deeply offensive
That'd be a very cool song title, don't think it'd get much airplay though inbetween those mcdonalds and slimming ads :(
Wow, folks. These gals are teenagers who are signing about Barbie - they're not telling women or men or boys or girls to "eat" or policing their bodies. I'm all for critically thinking about musicians' messages, but let's also support girls' activism, yeah?
Hi Jos,
Jessica and Courtney (on another post)
are going to have to take some critique from time to time. It's part of the feminist discourse.
Soon enough, your wave will have passed and the next wave will be all over you and what they do and don't like about you on their blogs.
The contributors on this blog are all young and I don't think there is one mother in the bunch (correct me if I am wrong).
There are even younger commenters and I know for a fact there are commenters, like me, who are considerably older.
Glad the song is going after a doll and not a human, but the phrase is offensive in general.
I would not call this song a triumph.
I am inspired to get out my old Joan Jett and the Blackhearts LPs now!
i_muse, I'm pretty sure we take critique constantly. The comments section on many posts - and other blogs - are filled with it! That doesn't mean we have to agree with all of it.
And I'm not sure what us being young (though at 31, I hardly consider myself a youth) or not being mothers has to do with anything. Am I misunderstanding something?
(Also, Joan Jett, swoon.)
I'm sure you get many horrid comments and find it easier to dismiss those sexist and misogynist comments, but, maybe it's harder to take the "hey, that is not ok with feminists" comments?
I have noticed a defensiveness by contributors when their posts are not appreciated by feminists.
I do consider 31 to be young (it's all relative) and often feel that motherhood is not represented on this blog by any actual mothers, except in the comments. That has little or nothing to do with this particular post though, so I should not have mentioned it in this thread.
I do greatly appreciate the work you all do here.
Sorry, I read Jos, when it clearly says Jessica! Time for bifocals!
"The contributors on this blog are all young and I don't think there is one mother in the bunch (correct me if I am wrong).
There are even younger commenters and I know for a fact there are commenters, like me, who are considerably older"
I'm correcting you. I am a mother, and there are lots more besides me that comment on this blog too. And you can count me into the considerably older than 14 crowd too :)
As for Joan Jett - absolutely. I featured Care Bears on Fire on my blog ages ago, and countered their song with one of Joan Jett's. Definately in the same vein. Now to dust off those LP's...
Did you hear about the film they are making about Joan Jett!
Looking forward to that.
re: fellow mothers
I was speaking of the sites main contributors.
I know there are mothers who comment, the Lays photo had a few.
I'm talking about the women who post on the feministing site, not the community site or the comments.
Just googled and do you mean The Runaways? Looks very cool and also features Lita Ford (also have her LP and haven't listened to it for way too many years!!!). Hope the real Lita Ford and Joan Jett are also in the movie :)
the hostility here is the reason why a lot of people are afraid to comment on Feministing.
Seriously, people, get over it. the song is funny and very true. Many young females (and women) are too scared to eat food, thinking it'll make them fat. The band was NOT saying that it's bad to be skinny, BUT it is bad to starve yourself just to impress guys.
Thanks for dismissing my feelings and the feelings of anyone else who could be offended by that damned phrase.
One could say that your presence and comments are a good reason to not comment here as well.
One could say also that DeafBrownTrash's comments weren't specifically just about you.
The girls who made this video are very young feminists. They're going to make phrasing mistakes. They're going to break some of the rules we've learned as we've matured in feminism.
Railing on 13-14 year old girls who're telling Barbie to fuck off is a great way to scare people completely out of feminism before they even really get into the idea of feminism.
Plus, they wrote it as a punk/post-punk/new wave song! That tradition means you say offensive things to get your point across. It's to be in-your-face about it and say something un-PC.
Yes, they are young and they are making mistakes and we have the right and the intelligence to critique it.
if you are going to dis other commenters for questioning or opposing a phrase, you better come more prepared to be dissed right back.
This is a worthwhile feminist blog.
Discourse is necessary or it will no longer be a worthwhile feminist blog.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would expect 14 year old girls who are rebelling against an unattainable image presented to them through a doll to understand all of the theory you are putting into your arguments...they are KIDS. Seriously. They do not have the education or life experience to even begin to understand the points being argued here- by young feminists, mothers, older feminists, women of color, women of various sizes, etc., etc. I would hate to discourage all young girls from speaking their minds and learning more about feminism because in their fourteen years they are not where you may be in life. I mean, come on.
"Suck my clit", a song title from my band, when I was 16.
I get what it is to be punk, at least what it was in the late 70's early 80's.
I also get that being a feminist means questioning statements like that and the effect of statements like that. To continue pointing out the youth of these punkers or rockers as an excuse is ageist.
They are old enough to understand that statement sounds like something the mean girls would say to the girl they accused of being anorexic. It doesn't sound punk rock to me.
thanks for trying to school me though
; )
"The people have the power", Patti Smith
sure, girls' activism is great but i HATE the phrase "eat a sandwich" and I think we can look at both the positive and the negative parts of this.
I spent my entire four years in highschool being taunted to "eat a sandwich" being loudly asked my pants size and how much I weigh, being ridiculed for ACTUALLY eating because i was so thin I "must" have been going to throw it up later. I actually stopped eating in public to avoid any comments (which didn't work) and still to this day feel uncomfortable around food with people I don't know well. These issues with food continue and I am now 28.
So yes, great for girls' activism, but NOT great for promoting the idea that "eat a sandwich" is EVER an appropriate thing to say to ANYone.
Thank you. I definitely support girls' activism, but I also can't deny the immediate, visceral reaction I have to that phrase.
Saw them on Amy Poehler's "Smart Girls at the Party", they are still awesome. It's great to see young girls not falling prey to the unrealistic body standards that they are given in the media and beyond. *sigh* there is hope for the future after all.
damn those feminists can't seem to take a joke. What's their problem anyway?
As a non-skinny woman, I am kind offended when people make comments about so-n-so needs to eat a sammich. NO. What so-n-so NEEDS is a positive body image, no matter what their body looks like. If so-n-so is starving themselves to be skinny, yeah, that's bad--but I don't know so-n-so's metabolism, so I'm not going to judge.
High five! It's not about skinny girls vs. fat girls - we all have to tell each other that we're beautiful no matter what size we are and stop caring about how much we eat.
That's some damn cute shit right there. I wish I had been that awesome at 14!
Damn, 13 years old. I wish I was that badass at 13.
And damn, they played in New York YESTERDAY. Woulda been nice to know that... yesterday lolol
FAIL. I cannot tell you how cringe-inducing the phrase "eat a sandwich" is. I've always had high metabolism, and all my life I've been treated like I'm maintaining an unhealthy body weight on purpose.
And to those who argue that 14 year old girls can't handle complicated "feminist" concepts like don't judge other people based on their weight - please. "I'm Gonna Eat a Sandwich, Because I'm Hungry and It is Lunchtime" - that supports healthy eating habits. "Hold Still While Make Your Dietary Decisions For You" - not so much.
I hear you, and I certainly think it's shit that anyone would say that to you.
But these girls aren't saying "eat a sandwich" to other girls - they're saying to Barbie, a doll - NOT a real person - whose proportions are so unhealthy that if she was a real woman she'd likely be in the hospital.
If people didn't use that comment to hurt thin people, it wouldn't matter. But, they do.
If there was a thicker doll name Barbara and the song said, "Hey, Barbara, put the sandwich down"
Would it be considered progressive?
Looking at anyone, male or female and assuming about what, when and how much they should eat, is wrong.
A song that goes after that shitty doll and the conditioning that it perpetuates, is great. Using that phrase to do so is not the best way to go.
IMHO.
Glad these young women are rockin' out! I hope they take in critique like this and re adjust their message.
But doesn't that explanation sort of run contrary to how we usually feel about Barbie's influence on girls? I'm not sure how Barbie can, in one case, be completely compartmentalized from actual people, but in all the other cases, be implicated in how little girls grow up feeling about themselves in terms of size, race, etc.
Yeah, but dolls don't eat sandwiches either just like they can't be offended.
In the video Barbie becomes a real person. The way it reads to me is 'if Barbie were a real person, she should eat a sandwich because she's too skinny" which is offensive.
Jessica,
I see what you're saying but the argument that the comment is directed towards Barbie and that somehow that makes it okay (or even good) is, in my opinion, not a strong argument -
The thing is, there are all sorts of misogynistic tropes out there that are put into into OBJECTS for humor (inappropriate pencil sharpeners, iphone apps where you can "hit" a digital girl, etc.). Of course, those aren't real women that the pencil sharpeners are made out of and the iphone app doesn't actually HURT anyone, but they are problematic. And on this website, we rally around these as feminists because they *promote* behavior in real life.
Like I said in my comment earlier, I think the activism these girls are engaged in is coming from a great place. But it is completely misdirected - "eat a sandwich" to barbie is still promoting that kind of language, saying it's *good* to say that, and placing blame theoretically onto women, individual women, instead of onto society, media, or producers of Barbie.
How about a song that says, hey Mattel, women come in more shapes and sizes besides zero?
seeing the phrase as a post title "eat a sandwich" did make me cringe. because using it as a post title already reinforces that saying it is alright. It's NOT.
Hortense at Jezebel wrote about the phrase "eat a sandwich" a while back, and it's certainly worth a look.
http://jezebel.com/5109273/snap-judgment-judgment-goodbye-eat-a-sandwich
If the song were aimed at an actual woman instead of Barbie, I think I'd be pretty annoyed. Even if they are thirteen, that's not okay.
(It's not okay if you're older, either. Bodysnarking people for being thin isn't any better than bodysnarking people for being fat, no matter how "suberversive" you think you're being. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but it bears repeating.)
Because it's aimed at Barbie, I'm not sure exactly how to feel about it. But the video is pretty cool.
LOLz. That was pretty funny. "Or just an apple?"
I don't see the "real person/fictional person" divide. Fictional people, including Barbie, are representations of real people. So if you insult a fictional person, it's drawing upon the same ideas.
Um, yeah, people are losing the total symbolism of Barbie here and what she represents culturally. First, Barbie's body proportions are NOT EVEN REAL. She could not actually "turn into" a real person even if she wanted to. While she can be embodied or represented through the body of a real person like in the video, she is also a SYMBOL of massive amounts of cultural baggage. Mostly, she is a symbol of the perfect/ideal woman, NOT a symbol of the "girls who are just naturally skinny and get teased all the time to eat something because they're so skinny." THAT "too-skinny" uncool girl is NOT Barbie. The song mocks the fact that women are exposed to and expected to emulate body types that are not even HUMANLY ATTAINABLE. Also, see airbrushing, which basically replaces women's real human appearance with a new non-human, computer-generated, unnatural appearance.
Also, as another respondent noted, let's be honest, please: thin women, even "skinny" women, do not face HALF the harassment or general disdain in this society that overweight women face. Sorry. You are not constantly bombarbed with messages about "Sick of being so skinny? Pay us some money and we'll fatten you up a bit!" "Here are some clothes we'll sell you to look a bit fatter!" Skinny models and other thin women are not constantly scorned and called disgusting. We would not be having an outcry over our attorney general if she was Keira Knightley-thin.
Allegra: Also, as another respondent noted, let's be honest, please: thin women, even "skinny" women, do not face HALF the harassment or general disdain in this society that overweight women face. Sorry.
But surely that does not cancel out the pain slim women feel when we are told to 'fatten up' - something I have experienced a lot.
Thin women *do* have a privilege over larger women, one that I have only become aware of after reading the comments on this post!
So by making us aware of this privilege, some of you are trying to put this song into context, that the girls from the band tried to say 'being big is ok' in a very roundabout way. It stinks of naivety, even if the sentiment is well meaning.
What will their next song be called?
'Barbie, learn to cook'
'Barbie, get a well paid career in a male dominated industry'
'Barbie, stop wearing high heels'
Pattern = one choice good, other bad.
Not sure if the band claimed to be feminist, but if they did they got it wrong in my opinion, because if feminism ever becomes a battle of one choice versus another, I'm out.
Oops, sorry, not attorney general, surgeon general.
Yes, we're not "forgetting about" the thin women. It's not OK to have anyone dictate to you what you should or should not eat based on judgments about body shape. But still, again, as another respondent also mentioned, all these "but what about us thin-but-still-privileged folks ... " protestations sound so much like "what about teh menz?" "what about us nice white ladiez?" "we need to turn the conversation back us thin ladiez"
YES, WE GET IT. We're not attacking skinny women. But I don't know how anyone can really argue that the representation of skinny/thin women in our culture is proportionate with reality (it's TOTALLY disproportionate - plus-size women might as well be invisible in the media), or that thin women are somehow not privileged over fat women. Yes, all women get similar media messages encouraging self-hatred. But you can't tell me that there's no difference between moving about in the world as a skinny woman and moving about in the world as a fat woman. Fat women are more hated than fat men: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/fat-bias-worse-for-women/ , http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,513549,00.html . Obese girls are less likely to go to college: http://chronicle.com/article/Obese-Girls-Are-More-Likely-to/39270 . These things happen to fat women, and they are MORE DAMAGING IN MORE WAYS than just being teased by your acquaintances to "eat a sandwich."
"But I don't know how anyone can really argue that the representation of skinny/thin women in our culture is proportionate with reality (it's TOTALLY disproportionate - plus-size women might as well be invisible in the media), or that thin women are somehow not privileged over fat women. Yes, all women get similar media messages encouraging self-hatred. But you can't tell me that there's no difference between moving about in the world as a skinny woman and moving about in the world as a fat woman. Fat women are more hated than fat men: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/31/fat-bias-worse-for-women/ , http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,513549,00.html . Obese girls are less likely to go to college: http://chronicle.com/article/Obese-Girls-Are-More-Likely-to/39270 . These things happen to fat women, and they are MORE DAMAGING IN MORE WAYS than just being teased by your acquaintances to "eat a sandwich.""
Um, no one has, that I have seen.
Just because people sometimes talk about the ways they are hurt by society does not mean they are saying that they are more hurt by it than anyone else.
Care Bears on Fire is awesome!!!
I don't really like how people assume that if you call a woman out, it's not feminism. I imagine a real-life Barbie would be damaging (and since they exist, is damaging) to peoples' view of women.
"Math is hard, I love shopping!" And her extremely skinny figure and obsession with fashion with no care to education is harmful. Barbie is shallow, and so is the epidemic of young teenage girls that think they can't amount to anything but their looks.
I don't think people realize that we're asking a DOLL to eat a sandwich, not a real life woman. I really don't think she has high metabolism...like many young women that look like her, it's more than likely an eating disorder. Do you EVER see her eating? It's not like she eats alot and stays skinny.
Like I said, we just want Barbies that represent all shapes and sizes, not the tall, blonde girl that hasn't picked up a book in her life.
With that said, I love Care Bears on Fire!
Thanks for posting this, Jessica, rock on!
So young girls with eating disorders see Barbie as a fellow sufferer? I'm a bit confused about all the hate here. Even though the particular phrase "eat a sandwich" is hurtful in certain contexts, I think the OVERALL message that these girls are trying to express (which I interpreted as a big F*ck you to our cultures obsession with what is for most people an unhealthy state) is very admirable. I think we should be giving these girls encouragement (albeit with a dose of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism) to question and challenge the standards of the "ideal" woman.
I don't think one type of woman has more privilege than another type of woman.
Thin women? Scorned and told to eat a sandwich.
Overweight women? Scorned and told not to eat.
Not-overweight/not-underweight? Having your weight scrutinized so you don't gain or lose any pounds.
Not pretty enough? Told to modify your appearance to meet the "minimum standard" of beauty.
Very conventionally pretty? You are a vain, shallow bitch with no brains.
Too young? Dress and act older than you are.
Too old? Get surgery and dress, act younger, lie about your age.
The list goes on forever. If you're a woman, you're screwed no matter how you look.
There is no such thing as "fat privilege". It is impossible that thinness invites as much scorn and hatred as fatness in women.
Policing women's bodies is always a bad thing, but everyone who thinks that it happens equally on both sides needs to read this post.
Wow, thanks for linking to that post.
"I don't think one type of woman has more privilege than another type of woman."
Um, seriously? Wow. All women are suddenly equal now? Women who are white, straight, upper-class, abled, etc, don't have privilege over other women? News to me!
I understand the feelings of many people that have commented so far: it is not OK to assume that a really skinny woman is starving herself.
However, I think its important to look at where that criticism comes from. I think it comes from a fear of being fat. So this means skinny is not demonized in quite the say way that fat is; skinny is bad in some cases out of some spite or jealously that one person can conform to the ideal. Still of course, unfair, but I think different situations.
I just want to point this out to say that, of course, women of all sizes face criticism because of their bodies - there is NO question about that.
But I think this song is still OK in some ways, because its critiquing the whole package of the ideal, not necessarily just the thin part. Plus, I think anyway its looked at, girls face much more bullying, etc for being fat than for being thin, both in amount and in scope.
But this is my MAIN point: although sticking to one phrase "eat a sandwich" ignores some of the larger issues women with disordered eating have with their bodies, I still think it gets at a really interesting point: a lot of women do restrict their eating - or feel bad when they don't. And the fact that 14 year old girls are recognizing THAT is, I think, really important. And think about it from the standpoint of a 14 year old girl: are you going to listen to some sappy serenade about how to love and accept your body for what it is? Or are you going to prefer some bad-ass sounding song that calls out Barbie for being too skinny to survive and for restricting her eating? Sure, it's not perfect, but I think it's main point is what really gets across - that too many women obsesses about food and their bodies, that too many women restrict their intake to conform to an ideal. An ideal that is so much more than body size, but that plays out in really frightening ways on women's bodies.
Again, I recognize how painful some skinny women's experiences have been, and I don't want to negate anyone's experiences. BUT I think the song really hits home for many many many young women who are or know someone so is struggling with their body and restricting or thinking about restricting their food intake as a result.
It's a huge problem, and yeah, I am glad to see these girls taking it on in a way that will actually get other girls their age listening!
I think you've got it a little mixed up. There is a big difference between someone telling you to eat a sandwich because they are jealous of the way you look, and someone telling you to eat a sandwich because you are too skinny for their standards. The first is definitely about jealousy over size but the latter is about people thinking that they have a right to tell a woman what she can and should do with her body. The latter is the one that is being used in this song (because clearly these girls are not jealous of Barbie's looks, which is totally freaking awesome), hence the outcry against it.
I'm pretty sure petty fights like this is why everyone accuses feminists of not having a sense of humor.
I don't think it betrays a lack of a sense of humor.
What bothers me is the inability to agree on anything and the complete willingness to debate to death the most minor failings of something I'd think most feminists would applaud: empowered teenage girls challenging unrealistic standards of beauty.
I don't see this thread as "petty fights". It is an open and frank discussion of feminist issues. Why would you think feminists are a homogeneous group and all identified feminists think the same?
The discussion comes from a vast variety of feminists and it is instructive to read it to learn from opposing views to the ones we ourselves hold - either intentionally thought out views or just because they have evolved through our experiences and have never been challenged in any way.
Just for the record, I've never heard the phrase 'eat a sandwich' but then I'm not particularly thin (or particularly large - in my mind my body is of an average shape and size and serves me well) so perhaps that's why I've not heard it, so I have learnt that it is often used as an insult.
While the overall message of this might be against the culture that Barbie represents (which is ok), the title phrase "eat a sandwich" is offensive. I was the "too thin" girl in high school not all that long ago, and "eat a sandwich" is not usually spoken in a kind way from teenage girls.
No Barbie is not a real person. I get that. But that doesn't mean that girls who are skinny and get teased, or girls with eating disorders that they are ashamed of, won't feel hurt. When it's the other way around and an overweight person is being made fun of in a movie etc., no one is coming to the conclusion that it's ok because the overweight woman isn't real.
I also understand that overweight women have it waaaay harder than the underweight ones. Absolutely, no argument. But I DON'T understand how that makes it ok to torment the underweight folks. It actually *is* hurtful to come here, a place that makes such tremendous effort to be a safe place for women, and see the phrase "eat a sandwich." I heard this shit all the time in high school and college and it IS offensive whether anyone likes that or not.
And let's not pretend that these girls don't understand why this would be hurtful because they are only 14. 14 is plenty old enough to know that this phrase can be hurtful - in fact, I bet 14 year old girls know better than anyone else that this is often meant in hurtful way. Not to mention, I just plain hate it when people infantilize teens. Yes teenagers still have a lot to learn, but they also have a lot of responsibility. They are making decisions about sex and all kind of social relationships, they are starting to think about politics, doing all kinds of things without adult supervision. They are plenty old enough to understand why something might be hurtful. If young teens were making a song making fun of fat people I seriously doubt anyone here would say "oh come on! They're just 13/14!"
Yeah, what octavia said.
I clicked into these comments with trepidation, hoping that people would understand why this is problematic but unsure if they would. I'm glad that so many people recognize how blatantly offensive the phrase "eat a sandwich!" is--just as bad as "put the sandwich down!"
Unsolicited comments about one's weight are not appreciated by anyone, whether they're thin or overweight, and frankly, I don't think the arguments "they're just 14" and "it's being said to a doll" hold much water. It's still perpetuating the language, and that is not cool. I'm all for teenage activism, and this comes from a good place, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't acknowledge that there are much better ways to go about it.
When critiquing cultural and media ideals of body image, I think boiling it down to an issue of weight is really a gross oversimplification, and maybe something that got started originally in popular dialogue because it is actually one of the few things look-wise that most women have some control over.
When it comes to physical factors that affect how people actually treat you, I think body /shape/ and facial appearance play a far larger role than weight, and both of those things are primarily genetic.
This is ridiculous. Every time weight comes up in this community, the concerns of fat women are ignored in order to talk about how bad thin women have it. It's as if every time race came up, we had to have a discussion about how white people aren't considered to have "culture", or if every time sexual orientation came up we had a talk about how straight people are alienated by images of gay people in the media. There is such a thing as "thin privilege" and there is a hierarchy between women who are considered attractive (read "thin") and women who are not.
Because of the nature of my eating disorder, I've been thin, very fat and in between. The difference? When a woman is thin, they are treated more like a human being than a fat woman.
Is there a transcript for this anywhere?
Found here
Make up, nose job, seven foot tall
Wears high heels but she never falls
No hopes, no dreams just one big smile
She's got no brains but she's got style
Barbie eat a sandwich before you die
Barbie eat a sandwich, give it a try
Barbie eat a sandwich to survive
Barbie eat a sandwich, barbie eat a sandwich
Everyone wants to have your hair
Wherever you go, they want to be there
They all think you're real but we know you're fake
Believing in you was a big mistake
Barbie eat a sandwich before you die
Barbie eat a sandwich, give it a try
Barbie eat a sandwich to survive
Barbie eat a sandwich, barbie eat a sandwich
Hey there, hey there
It's getting kinda drastic
Even though you look fantastic
Hey there, hey there
It's getting kinda drastic
Even though you're made of plastic
Perfect tan and big blue eyes
Everybody thinks that she's the prize
What is it that you've got to hide?
Is there anything going on inside?
Barbie eat a sandwich before you die
Barbie eat a sandwich, give it a try
Barbie eat a sandwich to survive
Barbie eat a sandwich, barbie eat a sandwich
Barbie eat a sandwich before you die
Barbie eat a sandwich, give it a try
Barbie eat a sandwich to survive
Barbie eat a sandwich, barbie eat a sandwich
Or just an apple
Well, since all of my other comments seem to have been eaten, let me say this: nowhere in critiquing this song did anyone say that skinny women have it worse than fat women. No one even implied that. Just because some skinny women on this thread said that it is offensive to them does not mean it has the same impact on them as it would if a fat woman was told to "put down the sandwich" - and none of them claimed that it did. Sometimes groups with more privilege than another can be offended by something that effects both groups; that doesn't automatically negate the more oppressed groups' feelings. It would be nice if people stopped acting like it did and realized that we are all being screwed over by the same thing here.
I think the song ROCKS and is a nice big f-you to the ridiculous beauty standards that these 14 year old girls are constantly bombarded with in magazines such as Cosmo, Seventeen, etc.
These are three awesome chicks. Props.