The Kinsey Institute folks over at Indiana University are the bomb dot com. Particularly, Debby Herbenick has been doing some really great, sex positive, feminist research. This ranges from the skinny on the prevalence of sex toy use to the recent study on the issue of low "genital self-esteem":
The anxiety some women feel about their genitals is rooted in messages gleaned from parents and pop culture, said study author Debby Herbenick, a sexual health educator with The Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender and Reproduction.
"Individuals may adopt negative attitudes toward women's genitals as a result of cultural-level scripts that suggest that women's genitals are unclean or dirty," writes Dr. Herbenick, who is also associate director of Indiana's University's Center for Sexual Health Promotion in the School of Health, Physical Education and Recreation.
Recalling the euphemistic television ads for Massengill douche - the
ones in which mothers and daughters stroll a beach or sail while
chatting about vaginal freshness - Dr. Herbenick says:
"These images of the women walking on the beach are pretty salient in our minds. Growing up, we've seen these commercials. Even if we never felt like we bought into those ideas, we've certainly heard of them, we know them, we know the taglines.
"Women who are shopping for condoms in drugstores may see these sex wipes or baby wipes on the shelf, and even if they're not buying them, there's a sense with products that we don't see for men that women's genitals are dirty and need to be cleaned."
Herbenick also goes on to state that men are generally more positive
about women's genitals than women. While I am sad that women's genital
self-esteem is low, I am happy to hear that men are positive about
women's genitals. I know how much vagina stigmatizing--especially when
men do it--can hurt women. Terrence Howard still gets press coverage
for the "wipe mandate" he issued in 2007. Many women, especially black
women in my circle, added wipes to their hygiene arsenals after his
foolishness.
At the same time, I believe in the role of cultural interpreters that call out this male validation business and strive to educate women about the potential effects of buying into some of these vagina mores. That's why Herbenick's work is so meaningful. It is doing just that.
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Maybe I can get that hat and tell the people who are in charge of birth certificates my surgeon gave me that in lieu of a letter. I mean if I am wearing a hat saying it, surely it must be true! :0
You should!
I heart vaginas.
my genitals rock! I've made babies with them and have had lots of crazy orgams with them! I enjoy them very much.
While I can appreciate that, there is also the turn about where men are told their penises aren't adequate either - they 'smell funny' (or look funny, seriously!), and aren't 'big enough' - rather like women don't have 'big enough' breasts.
There is also a practical excuse for wipes - women get infections more easily than men, and keeping clean does help prevent that. I do agree I would feel better if I didn't have to worry that I smelled bad.
I found something in the 'family planning' section of Walmart - I don't know if it was strips or cream, but it was something to make your vagina smell like apple or watermelon! Since when?
I think that would be even creepier...
Um... it's not just about the wipes being hygienic. Contrary to popular belief, vaginas are self-cleaning. That's what normal discharge does. It's about women being shamed for simply having vaginas, being told they smell bad, that men don't like to go down on them, etc etc. Male penis size is not equivalent to the hygiene issue. Male penis size is equivalent to the labia size issue.
I'm sorry, but even men with small penises aren't AFRAID TO LOOK AT THEM IN A HAND MIRROR, as so many young women are.
I think perhaps uncircumcised men get some similar flack to what women get... certainly there are people who claim that uncircumcised men are "dirty" or "smelly" and that they don't want to go down on them.
Slight derail: I once babysat for a woman who had decided not to have her son circumcised. At first I was a little thrown off by it but after she explained her reasoning to me it started to make some more sense. Then I did my own research and it made a lot of sense. Then I found out from my mom that my brother's circumcision was botched and I decided that if/when I have a son I will under no circumstances have him circumcised.
But seriously. Not wanting to go down on an uncircumcised penis? I don't think I've ever heard that one. I know everyone has sexual hang-ups but that is not one I am familiar with.
I've heard it from women I haven't had (and had no intention to have) sexual relation with. I've personally dealt with a milder form of it from a woman I have.
Its not exactly surprising considering its a major justification for doctors attacking infant boys genitals.
For all the low genital self-esteem and the problems attached to it at least there was never any risk of a doctor taking an electrified needle to your genitals 'for cleanliness'.
While I can appreciate that, there is also the turn about where men are told their penises aren't adequate either - they 'smell funny' (or look funny, seriously!), and aren't 'big enough' - rather like women don't have 'big enough' breasts.
There is also a practical excuse for wipes - women get infections more easily than men, and keeping clean does help prevent that. I do agree I would feel better if I didn't have to worry that I smelled bad.
I found something in the 'family planning' section of Walmart - I don't know if it was strips or cream, but it was something to make your vagina smell like apple or watermelon! Since when?
I think that would be even creepier...
i really thought vaginas were kind of icky until my husband went to great lengths to convince me otherwise.
mostly vaginas keep themselves clean, they have beneficial bacteria a lot like your gut bacteria that prevent infections. its a bad idea to "clean" anything more intimate than the vulva, whose job it is to keep the vaginal bacteria protected from the outside world (your underpants).
This is a topic that I've never really understood the frequent discussions about on this blog--I guess because nothing in my upbringing (which was generally not all that pro-sex) ever gave me the impression that my female genitals were "gross" or "dirty". Growing up, I could never figure out what those "not so fresh feeling" ads were about, and when I asked my mom what "douche" meant, she told me it was French for shower and a kind of birth control people used in the 50s.
That said--I don't understand why people think being concerned about cleanliness around the genital area, or taking special care to clean (or wanting one's partner too clean) the vulva is "anti-feminist." It's awfully close to the opening of the urethra, and often gets urine on it when one goes to the bathroom. And the groin area, like the armpits, sweats a lot and doesn't get a lot of air circulation, which can make things pretty rank in hot weather (or if you're wearing tighter clothes).
I don't think wanting to clean up a bit in light of those issues is necessarily anti-feminist or reflects negative feelings about one's vagina in itself--after all men's genitals are prone to exactly the same issues, or worse. Rather than getting rid of genital wipes and such items for women, I think the world would be a better place if there was a lot more social pressure on men to use similar products to clean their own genitals.
I agree. I'll admit that I have used wipes when out camping (not pansy camping either, but the real deal) for the simple fact that hiking all day + schmoozing in a tent = grunge. Grunge that I don't care for, and can be rank, just like armpits and boob sweat. I don't hear many people talking about how anti-perspirant is anti-feminist. UNTIL someone says, "Oh, girls don't sweat and girls should have shower fresh vaginas." Yes, that's pretty lame.
On another angle, I'll admit that I do get awfully shy concerning genital size/shape. It's certainly one huge fault that porn brings to society - something that has already been discussed, I imagine.
Are you not aware that "pansy" is a homophobic slur and doesn't really belong here?
Oh yeah, and you used "lame" as a pejorative too, Nice.
Srsly! As a supporter of Lame, I too am highly offended at this use of the name of my beloved mp3 encoder as a synonym for "undesirable"!
I don't understand, what's wrong with lame...?
It is ableist
Well, what would you prefer I have said, then?
For "lame", how about "stupid"? And for "pansy camping", you could have said "half-assed", "amateur", maybe...
Wrong. Stupid is an offensive term that was and still is often used to deride people who have been deemed to be "developmentally delayed"
Thanks for calling me out on that, my bad.
i like "stale" instead of lame.
Wow! What a wonderful surprise to find such a lovely, thoughtful, smart and insightful article about my research on one of my favorite web sites.
Understanding how women feel about their genitals (and why) is a primary research interest of mine. Our research team also does quite a bit of work, as Rose pointed out, on issues related to sexual pleasure, enhancement and other issues that are important to women's sexuality and women's sexual health.
I'm glad, too, to see such great discussion in the comments about the "to wipe or not to wipe" issue and others. I've included a whole chapter about vaginal and vulvar health (and sex) issues in my new book, Because It Feels Good, though there are other excellent vagina-friendly books out there too. The V Book (by Elizabeth Stewart) is a favorite for health issues and Cunt is invaluable for cultural perspectives. Plus, I'm stil a Vagina Monologues fan as are so many of my students. Though we still have a long way to go toward improving the discourse around women's genitals, we really have come a long way in the past decade or so.
Thanks again! :)
Debby
My god - I'd never even HEARD of "sex wipes!" Is this common among young women? Or is it something that women of all ages do? (I'm 29, so not that old.) I saw baby wipes in someone's bathroom once, but suffice to say, I thought they were for cleaning a different orifice.
They sell them in some drug stores and adult bookstores. The chemicals can be irritating to women's genitals so, in most cases, many healthcare providers just recommend using water and one's hand to clean the outside parts as needed :)
I hadn't ever heard of them either.
I have to say, one of the best gifts a lover ever gave me was to exclaim about how pretty my vulva was. I always felt self-conscious about it before that.
People saying negative things about vaginas/vulvas/whathaveyou makes me see red. I've been blessed enough to hear phrases like "roast beef sandwich" and "like a bulldog eating mayonnaise" used in reference to SOMEONES BODY. Are you fucking kidding me?
Um... I just want to know where I could get one of those hats. :)
I use these "feminine wipes" that are getting such attention in the comments, although not to impress anyone else (I'm not currently sexually active, or even dating). Even though I disagree with the message they're sending (excuse me... but where are the ball sack wipes, exactly??), I find they're convenient after some #2 sessions, cleaning up tampon leakages, and taking care of low grade TP crumblies (who ever talks about this problem?!). If they would advertise these uses on the package, I'd be impressed.
I feel a bit bad for posting that, and I'm sorry if this is seen as derailing, but it's important for me to post it:
I am a woman, and I don't have a vagina, but I don't think I have a very high "genital self-esteem" either.
I mean, I think it's important to discuss how vagina is seen in patriarchal society, and it's good that these discussions can take place in some spaces, but it's also a bit hurting being a trans (non-op) girl and getting the message that women's only possible genital is vulva.
You shouldn't feel bad for posting and I don't think it's a derail. It's perfectly valid to point out genital self-esteem as it pertains to your experience.
I want to address the statement that men view women's genitals more positively than women. This part of the article stuck out the most to me. The anomaly in the patriarchal ideology, ironically stemming from the sexist porn industry no less, holds true for a great many women, I feel. Women grow up without any encouragement for sexual exploration, we never hear stories of other women masturbating - it's just a taboo topic that keeps us blind to such a vibrant part of our bodies. Men, who use masturbation as a constant topic and source of camaraderie, develop a high reverence for vaginas as well as penises with this open mentality.
I myself, while attaining some knowledge and comfort from self-discovery, learned a large part of my appreciation for my genitals from my boyfriends' attitudes. Women should not have to learn this from their significant others - they should grow up with an inherent appreciation of their genitals.
I'm so glad this issue was brought up.
Our culture is full of vagina hate. I really think that hatred, fear, and disgust with vaginas is the basis of lots of violence, sexism, and misogyny.
*trigger warning*
In my life, I can't tell you how many times I've heard pejorative phrases (like "cunt" and "gash" and "tuna" and "axe wound") for my genitalia been used as an insult against women, PARTICULARLY feminists and lesbians, either in a "humorous" way or as a part of sexualized violence. It comes from both straight and gay men. And with women, I don't think the language is so aggressive, but it manifests itself as a sort of self-loathing. For instance, many of the girls I grew up with can't bear to look at/touch their vaginas, receive oral sex, etc.
I admit I've internalized some of it - I'm not at peace with menstruating; I actively dislike it. Probably because since I hit puberty all I hear about is how "gross" and embarrassing periods are.
I'm queer, and from straight women, I get a lot of, "girls are pretty but how can a vagina turn you on, its so weird I would throw up." And elsewhere, reminders about how bad vaginas look, smell, and taste. It's like the very physical essence of my being is constructed as repulsive and humiliating.
Agreed on the vagina hate and violence connection. "Axe wound" really bothers me. Even more so than cunt.
As for the straight women telling you that vaginas are ugly and smelly, definitely not cool. Why do people boil sexuality down to genitals anyhow? I'm not straight because I just loooove penis. I'm straight because I'm sexually attracted to men and not just their sex organs.
And I'm not trying to be contradictory but I dislike my period because it makes me sooo tired and it triggers migraines. Plus awful cramps and what I can only assume are hot flashes. Ugh... I think it's great that there are some women who can embrace menstruation but I am definitely not one of them.
"Cunt" doesn't really bother me, since it's a (Germanic?) word for vagina (think "cunnilingus"). Wikipedia article (I know, I know): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunt. Also here: http://www.takeourword.com/pt.html. (Basically I googled "etymology of cunt.")
So yay for using proper terms! I think the fact that proper terminology can be so reviled (forget "cunt" - even the word "vagina" is censored sometimes) is a huge part of vagina hate.
Agreed. "Cunt" is a really old word that simply means vagina. That's so much better than, say, "pudenda", which is Latin for, roughly, "shaming".
Terms like "tuna", "roast beef", "grilled cheese", etc. are words I have only really heard from other straight women as a way to be crude or funny. The only men I have heard use such slang are particularly aggressive men that I would not have a close relationship or friendship with anyway. I don't understand why these women use such graphic language to talk about their vaginas.
Really? I've only ever heard terms like these from men, but maybe it's a regional difference, or just coincidence... who knows?
Several years ago I went to one of those focus group things where they pay you $100 for talking about what you think of some propsed advertising. One of the products was these female wipes. The ad basically said (and I'm paraphrasing, of course), "All you slutty ladies never know when you'll have a one-night stand so you should have these wipes on hand to clean your dirty vagina!"
I must have been the only feminist in the room because I was the only person who said that I didn't like the ad because it reinforced a stereotype that women's genitals are somehow inherently dirty and that men have the right to expect flowers and butterflies to fall out of our vaginas when we take our panties off. All the other women in the room couldn't believe it and tried to shame me for having "a dirty vagina."
It reminds me of that commercial for the mini disposable toothbrushes that show a woman about to hook up in the club as she takes a time-out to brush her teeth. God forbid you have a little mouth funk after being out and drinking all night! It's one thing to pop a mint, but brush your teeth? Do you think they would ever show a guy on TV being similarly concerned that he wasn't daisy-fresh for the woman he was about to hook up with?
Indeed - where *are* the penis-freshening products? That had never crossed my mind before, the fact that there are literally no products on the market for ensuring a clean penis, while there are any number for vaginas. But it's true!
I personally don't think either are necessary for daily life - cleaning your genitals in the shower/bath with a mild soap/detergent once a day is fine. Anything more zealous than that can lead to the washing away of helpful bacteria, which paves the way for thrush and other nasties. Also, many of these products contain artificial fragrances, preservatives etc which can irritate sensitive skin.
If a woman notices a *very* bad smell, the presence of these products on the market might lead her to believe this is something normal for vaginas, and could discourage her from seeing her doctor about what could be an infection or STD. So they're not only unnecessary but potentially harmful, to boot (and not only to your genital self-esteem!).
Indeed - where *are* the penis-freshening products?
Its called a circumcision. That medically unnecessary, barbaric medical procedure which was forced on the vast majority male infants born in my generation.
I don't want another darned pink product.
I am also tired of people lazily saying vagina to mean all female genitalia.
Don't be afraid to say, "vulva," if that's what you are using a wipe for, and I sure hope you are not using it in your vagina.
Recently, I was with a man for the first time, and for some strange reason I felt the need to apologise for my natural smell, He gave me the most quizzical look and said it was nice. I think he's a keeper for now :)
But, I can't help but wonder if the commericals I keep hearing on tv made me subconciously ashamed though I have never never felt the need to apologize before? Ugh advertiseing makes me ill. I'm glad I don't do it anymore. yuck
Recently, I was with a man for the first time, and for some strange reason I felt the need to apologise for my natural smell, He gave me the most quizzical look and said it was nice. I think he's a keeper for now :)
But, I can't help but wonder if the commericals I keep hearing on tv made me subconciously ashamed though I have never never felt the need to apologize before? Ugh advertiseing makes me ill. I'm glad I don't do it anymore. yuck
Recently, I was with a man for the first time, and for some strange reason I felt the need to apologise for my natural smell, He gave me the most quizzical look and said it was nice. I think he's a keeper for now :)
But, I can't help but wonder if the commericals I keep hearing on tv made me subconciously ashamed though I have never never felt the need to apologize before? Ugh advertiseing makes me ill. I'm glad I don't do it anymore. yuck
you're kidding! flowers and butterflies and bluebirds don't come out of your panties when you take them off? you DO have a dirty vagina!
seriously though, many women buy into this. myself included. i KNOW i'm buying into it, and part of me is disappointed in myself.
part of me talks myself into deciding that no, it's kind of hot, i'm wearing jeans, i'm getting that not-so-fresh feeling, i'm glad i have a baby wipe in my purse.
then the angel on my shoulder says, you are human. everyone has a smell. get over it. using a wipe will put chemical smells on a human smell. ridiculous.
then comes the devil on my shoulder: this isn't about misogyny finding its way into my brain; it's about the fact that it's HOT and i REALLY DO SMELL because I'M SWEATING. and JEEZ!
and back and forth i go.
maybe you female-bodied persons have had this experience and can weigh in:
i'm a female-bodied heterosexual who identifies as a woman and have been in many sexual situations with male-bodied heterosexuals who identify as men wherein:
things start getting frisky, he heads south, and i say, oh wait! i went to the gym and i haven't taken a shower yet/i have been running around all day let me take a quick shower or head for the bidet/etc...and am ignored. and my partner says something like, no i like it, or don't worry about it, and goes down on me anyways. i am torn. on one hand, i get very self-conscious for reasons that are discussed at length above and i like that HE likes the way i taste/smell.
on the other, he is not listening to me or respecting me.
have any of you had this experience? what do you think?
I would discuss it with him at a neutral time (i.e. don't wait until he's going down south). He probably thinks he's helping you feel better about yourself by showing you that he thinks you're sexy even when you haven't showered. While trying to help you is a valid goal, if the way he goes about it means you feel disrespected then he needs to find something else to do to help.
So yeah. I'd talk it out. Ask him why he's doing it, tell him why it bothers you, and see what happens. Maybe he'll quit, maybe you'll feel less self-conscious, who knows.