Bill Maher: "The surprise is that someone hasn't choked this bitch sooner."
Can we be surprised? Via the Frisky, according to Bill Maher, choking a woman is A-OK if she's an annoying, promiscuous publicity whore, right?
Said Maher:
New rule: stop acting surprised someone choked Tila Tequila! The surprise is that someone hasn't choked this bitch sooner.
And I don't give a rat's ass what actually happened with San Diego Charger Shawne Merriman that night; where the charges are true or not, it doesn't make jokes about violence against women acceptable. It's never acceptable.
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Ugh, I cannot STAND this misogynistic asshole. But what's almost as bad is Kathy Griffin cracking up in response. Because, god forbid she shouldn't laugh at his hateful "joke" then she might be labeled (gasp) humorless!
A misogynist will always find a way to justify violence against women. Whether they were too promiscuous or they wouldn't put out, too annoying or too "cold", too smart or too dumb, too thin or too fat, damnit, she deserves it!
It's ridiculous and it's not funny.
F Maher.
(that is all I got...)
F Maher.
(that is all I got...)
Fuck.
I think Tila Tequila is annoying so that means that when I see her on TV I change the channel instead of fantasizing about choking her. You see Bill, they make these handy things called "remote controls". I also use mine for when your show comes on.
Uhhh....why would you not give a rat's ass what happened to her? That's not that much better than what he said.
Is this supposed to be @ my comment?
No, to the OP's. Yours was entertaining.
I think what Vanessa meant by that comment (or at least how I interpretted it) was that regardless whether or not Tila was actually abused, Bill Maher's "joke" is unacceptable. Not that she didn't give a rat's ass about Tila Tequila being abused.
Oop, yep, that makes more sense. That reading totally went over my head.
Everyone hates Tila for her annoying, trite personality and her exploiting women's sexualities.
in fact, I don't see anything wrong with Maher making that joke. A lot of people, including me, feel that way about her.
Saying it's acceptable to make jokes about the abuse of any woman, no matter how unanimous the consensus may be that she's annoying, is not okay because it sets an ugly precedent. Once we say it's acceptable to make fun of one victim of abuse we leave the door open for anyone to be the subject of that kind of humorless vitriol. It's as simple as that.
next, someone's going to say that me, along with many other Americans, are misogynistic for our hatred of Paris Hilton and making jokes about punching her.
oh wait, some feminists already did that.
I hate Tila, I'd love to punch her. It has nothing to do with violence against women. Lots of people hate her and have no sympathy for her. It has NOTHING to do with her gender.
Ooooh, so it's not misogyny after all! Your parents just didn't raise you right. You think hurting someone just because you don't like them actually makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
Is it at all possible to continue this conversation without bringing anyone's parentage into it? I don't know what you're trying to accomplish, but insulting one's opponent's upbringing has never won anyone an argument.
I have the urge to hurt people I don't like all the time. Do I actually go out and hit that person? No, never, but the feeling is still there.
Does that make me a misogynist if that person happens to be a woman? No, I don't think so.
I never used the word misogyny. I just said Bill Maher was wrong and then explained why he was wrong. It'd be wrong if anyone of any gender was made fun of for being abused. It just so happens that in this lovely little culture of ours it's the lady folk who take the brunt of this mean spirited commentary. In fact, when is the last time you can recall a man being beat up by someone they were intimate with where everyone made fun of them and said they deserved it? I can't think of one, can you?
"In fact, when is the last time you can recall a man being beat up by someone they were intimate with where everyone made fun of them and said they deserved it? I can't think of one, can you?"
When Kelly Bensimon beat up her boyfriend Nick Stefanov, there was a lot of commentary on both radio and TV that made light of the attack. (In addition, Bensimon got off with a misdemeanor charge.)
In particular, there are the comments made by Bill O'Reilly's and Megan Kelly when it was reported:
O'Reilly: "...he looks like a metrosexual...
Megan Kelly: "He's a girlie-man, eh?"
O'Reilly: "He's a guy who drinks a lot of lattes..."
It's wrong and it happens to both genders.
"In fact, when is the last time you can recall a man being beat up by someone they were intimate with where everyone made fun of them and said they deserved it? I can't think of one, can you?"
When Kelly Bensimon beat up her boyfriend Nick Stefanov, there was a lot of commentary on both radio and TV that made light of the attack. (In addition, Bensimon got off with a misdemeanor charge.)
In particular, there are the comments made by Bill O'Reilly's and Megan Kelly when it was reported:
O'Reilly: "...he looks like a metrosexual...
Megan Kelly: "He's a girlie-man, eh?"
O'Reilly: "He's a guy who drinks a lot of lattes..."
It's wrong and it happens to both genders.
It has EVERYTHING to do with her gender.
Tila Tequila is hated by talk show hosts and the like precisely for her promiscuity. A promiscuity which is unquestioningly permitted and celebrated in male celebrities but policed and derided in women. In this case, that policing was taken to the point of condoning violence.
I'm pretty sure throwing out the "She deserved it for getting on my nerves and being an overtly sexual person" card isn't going to fly here.
Um, excuse me? I'm not a fan of Tila Tequila. I didn't watch her show, I don't follow her on Twitter, I tend to ignore her as much as possible. But that doesn't mean I think she deserves to be CHOKED. Maher is creating a category of "bitches" like Tequila - who use their sexuality in unapproved ways, who are famous mostly for being famous, whatever - and saying that it's ok to abuse them. You don't have to like her, you can feel free to criticize her, but don't EVER ever say that her behavior means it's acceptable for her to be the victim of violence.
well, actually, I don't watch Bill Maher's show, so I have no idea if he's got a history of talking about women in that way. Maybe you're right, that's what he does.
But I do agree with him about Tila Tequila.
Bill Maher has a history of being emotionally abusive to his real life female domestic partners
Specifically, he likes to date African American women who make less money than he does - and then he bombards them with highly racialized class biased verbal abuse - he accuses them of being "Black golddiggers", basically.
So, big surprise, he'd applaud the physical abuse of an Asian American woman who comes from a working class Vietnamese refugee family.
I'm surprised you'd agree with him though!
"Maher is creating a category of "bitches" like Tequila - who use their sexuality in unapproved ways, who are famous mostly for being famous, whatever - and saying that it's ok to abuse them."
This would be a decent argument if you left out the famous part.
"We need to protect the celebrities!" isn't a great rallying cry
But "we need to protect women, and all human beings regardless of their social status!" is a great rallying cry.
Unfortunately, that won't fit in a bumper sticker, so the majority of people won't have the attention span for it.
You want to strangle her because she's "trite?" Seriously I don't even know what to do with your comments. It makes me sad that you hate a person you've never met (I'm assuming) so much that you've publicly stated you wish to harm her physically.
I won't repeat what everyone said above, but here's the thing:
You think misogynistic men are making determinations between "annoying" women like Tila and regular women like, I don't know, you? Me? Other commenters here?
We're all the same to them. They'll gladly choke any of us. The only way to stop it is for US to not draw these distinctions around women who are "ok" to abuse and those who aren't based on our personal feelings about them.
Your comments are very not cool, and very not helpful in the grand scheme of things.
Wow, uhm, that's a pretty wild conclusion to draw. Really? I'm not a fan of tasteless jokes either, but that's just the "thing" in comedy lately. That trend deserves to be addressed, but I think its impact on victims is more along the lines of how seriously they're taken, and not "I bet Bill Maher would strangle any woman to displease him because he joked about doing it to Tila Tequila". I know the flip-side of not talking about this seems to be "PFFT, it's just a joke, get a sense of humor bitch!", but that doesn't mean you have to fly to the complete other side.
I'm not sure where you're getting from my comment that I think Bill Maher would choke someone?
Abusive partners aren't abusive only to certain types of women, such as the women that DeafBrownTrash disapproves of. Whenever feminists decide to approve of sexism or abuse against certain types of women (Sarah Palin, Tila Tequila, Paris Hilton, anyone else they dislike), they're in turn approving of it against ALL of us, because we're all women.
Again, you're sort of pulling this Bill-Maher-choking-people from nowhere, but do you know what Bill Maher WOULD do? He'd make sexist comments about any woman, not just the ones DeafBrownTrash thinks are trite and annoying.
"...You think misogynistic men..." AKA Bill Maher, right?
"...We're all the same to them. They'll gladly choke any of us. ..."
That's where I got that. Maybe it's not what you meant, but it's not as though I pulled it out of my ass.
My point is that there's a difference between approving of this irresponsible humor (which I don't), and writing as though you think people who say shit like this as part of a comedy bit would actually do it.
I think, in this, there's a difference between "someone should choke her to save the rest of us from her crap" and someone ACTUALLY choking her, which is what happened (allegedly) and saying she deserved it sooner.
The first is common phrasing in speech (though it's usually punch or some such); the second is victim blaming.
I agree with you that she's annoying, trite and a sexual exploiter, however that doesn't mean she should be choked.
I agree. Saying you want to choke someone in a world where violence against women was pretty much a non-issue would be one thing- it could be inferred that you wouldn't follow through out of basic self-control. Saying it in a world with rampant violence against women that is continually supported and accepted because "the bitch probably did something to deserve it" just continues to justify the violence.
I just watched a prosecutor opine on national television that, "X had so many women coming after him, he didn't need to beat anyone" as an argument against a woman's charges of abuse, charges that were echoed by other women against the same man. As long as attitudes like that are in our actual justice system, it's just not okay to make jokes about domestic violence, particularly jokes that justify it.
Obviously, you hate Tila Tequila's public persona.
That's clear - because you said so.
But "everybody" doesn't hate Tila Tequila's public persona - because you do not speak for everybody.
And you don't actually hate Tila Nguyen (the actual live human being behind the Tila Tequila persona) because you don't know her personally - you just know the character she plays on the internet and TV - "Tila Tequila".
I'm actually pretty indifferent to the Tila Tequila media persona, I don't even know the real Tila Nguyen personally so I have no opinion on her personality but I feel very sympathetic with the real Tila Nguyen because her boyfriend (a professional athlete a foot taller than her who outweighs her by 200 pounds) chose to beat her up because she wouldn't do as he said.
He's been an asshole for years, it's not like this is the first time, and despite the fact he says one or two things that are right, I stopped watching that little prick my second year of college. Stopped reading Huff Po when they decided to give him some kind of voice.
I LOVE Bill Maher, but he is a bit of an asshat at times. This would be one of those times.
I liked him or rather what he said during the Bush years because he said what was unspoken...but he is a jackass.
There are instances where Maher's blunt delivery seems almost cleansing, but when a mean-spirited and sexist attitude drives his words, then the true impact of what he has said become clear to me. I frequently feel the same way about Dan Savage and his condescending, sardonic attitude towards certain people and certain topics.
As tempting as it is to let our own anger and snark dictate what we write or say, here is proof that it frequently backfires.
I absolutely do not liek Tila Tequila and as far as the evidence goes, she wasn't choked- she lied- again. Which is a SLAP IN THE FACE to people who actually suffer domestic violence. Every liar makes it harder for the real victims to be taken seriously. Now I would not say she deserved to be a victim of violence but she does deserve to be called out for being a very vindictive person. Maher was wrong only for his comment about Tila Tequila deserving to be choked.
... as far as the evidence goes, she wasn't choked - she lied - again.
Really? You were in attendance and witnessed the event?
Why people constantly feel a need to issue some sort of ruling on domestic violence and rape cases before they can even GO THROUGH THE LEGAL PROCESS is beyond me.
Well, to be fair, it has:
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Case-Closed-Tila-1009655.aspx
The DA will not be prosecuting due to a lack of evidence to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Not to cosign with Phenicks at ALL though, this dismissal is probably worth a discussion about the prosecution of DV as a whole and the treatment of victims by both the system and by idiots who decide that women lie about it more often than not.
I think your comment should read "to be fair, the case has been dropped" instead of "to be fair, it has," because allegra was arguing against Phenicks saying that evidence showed that Tila lied and that article you link to shows no evidence of her lying, just that there isn't enough evidence to pursue the case, which happens a lot in criminal matters of any kind. And unfortunately, in most cases where there isn't enough evidence for a DA to pursue the matter, most people ASSUME it means the victim was lying. I would say especially in this case since it involves Tila Tequila.
Ah, by "it has" I meant "been through the legal process" since the dropping of the case means it won't proceed any further - thanks for pointing out I wasn't clear so I could clarify!
Yeah, I figured that's what you meant. The wording was just a bit fuzzy. I just wanted to make double sure :)
No, you're wrong.
The San Diego County declined to prosecute.
Which does NOT mean Shawne Merriman is innocent.
It just means that they thought they wouldn't get a conviction.
Which may have had a lot to do with Merriman being a widely popular football star who is also a millionaire.
In other words, Merriman had the money to beat the case - and, in a conservative Navy town like San Diego, his lawyers could easily find male jurors who condoned his domestic violence, both because they believe in the male "right" to beat women and because he's a big time football guy.
I've seen the pictures of Tila Tequila's bruises - I suspect he's guilty as sin, dropped prosecution or not.
I wonder if Maher thinks it would be okay if I kicked him very hard in the groin for 20+ years of being a misogynistic turd? It couldn't really be much of a shock, could it?
Is it any wonder so many woman don't bother to even report their abuse? It's seriously discouraging when, even on a really intelligent, feminist blog, you can find the "she's lying" mentality.
I feel a little sick reading these comments. I've seen more enlightenment about domestic abuse and why it's not okay to "lol, celebrity!" on a snark community than I saw here.
Exactly. I think Maher deserves to be choked to death! Now all I need is an audience!
Bill Maher is probably one of the most blunt people in media. I'm fairly confident he and Dan Savage have a running competition going of who can be the more blunt asshole.
BM says a lot of things which I agree with, though he does it in such a way it makes me want to scream and cry.
Case and point: Religulous (sp?). He spends the entire time proving his own point and missing the idea that these people derive meaning and goodness from their religious experiences. All to make them look like buffoons. Well, he looked like the buffoon for not understand religion's real impact.
What a fuckjob.
I love Bill Maher and wish there were more media figures like him (i.e., comedians doing news/fun shows about actual news and commentary) , but I am not really a fan of his misogynistic streak. I was similarly VERY disappointed that instead of confronting Jay-Z on misogynistic rap lyriacs, he not only laughed along with them but had them printed and bound in a fancy hardcover book. What a wasted opportunity.
Thats because Maher is chracteristically impotent. You cant expect a coward to act with stregth.
hahahaaa! That's my new favorite phrase! "characteristically impotent" Great!
Bill Maher is sexist - so why would he criticize Jay Z for, basically, having the same contempt for women that he does!
Maher probably ADMIRES Jay Z because, unlike Maher, Jay Z has lots of young conventionally attractive female groupies, and Maher has none.
While I've immensely enjoyed him the handful of times I've seen him, I'm not familiar enough with him to be aware of this misogynistic streak he's being accused of. Its a little surprising since a number of my feminist friends absolutely love him. Does anyone have any background to share?
Well he's said some pretty sexist things about Hilary Clinton for one thing.
Personally, I don't disagree with most of what Maher says but I often take issue with the way he says it. To me he's sort of a caricature of the patronizing liberal that conservatives love to hate... and while who conservatives hate is rarely a good litmus test for who I dislike, Maher isn't really doing liberals many favors either.
Bill Maher basically built his career on the notion that straight, white men are systematically oppressed because people no longer smile when straight, white men say misogynistic, racist, and homophobic things. He gets away with it in part because he surrounds it with Bush-bashing and other politically (rather than socially) liberal ideas. And because like so many, he managed to make his privilege into iconoclasm.
This might seem ridiculous to some people, but I try to be very aware of semantics. She wasn't choked, she was strangled.
And dropping the case due to lack of evidence isn't surprising. It happens a lot in DV cases, and strangulation often leaves no visible injuries. It can cause significant internal damage, however, that causes major problems days or even weeks after the attack.
And I know this has been addressed, but his comment really does have far reaching consequences. He basically said that she deserved it for being a "bitch." (Is there anyone who posts here who HASN'T been called a bitch?) This just perpetuates the belief that violence against women is justified, and every time someone says shit like this on television, there are abusers out there listening.
Slight derail here: I never knew there was a difference between choke and strangle. You learn something new every day!
It's a completely semantic arugment, but to use the same word when someone's airway is obstructed by a piece of food as when someone deliberately crushes the airway just doesn't seem right. Using the word strangle shows the seriousness of the crime.
Strangulation is also a strong lethality indicator in domestic violence cases. Women who have been strangled are at 9 or 10 times greater risk of homicide.
Actually also according to a judo website I found when googling the terms: "The best way of thinking about it is a choke obstructs the air way and a strangle obstructs the arteries to the brain." So it isn't necessarily only related to food. Someone also described the difference as a choke puts pressure on the front of the throat whereas strangling puts pressure on the sides.
Excellent distinction. :) That's more nuanced than most conversations; I tend to use the food situation to make the concept clear, and because we don't really see too many actual choke holds in DV (unless an officer is restraining a perpetrator). It's much more common to have hands around the neck.
Interestingly, there are machines capable of assessing internal damage from strangulation, but they're pretty rare and extremely expensive to use. (There's only one in my whole state.) Another reason why proving strangulation in court cases is tough if there are no external marks...
Martial artist and self-defense instructor here.
Yes, there is evident physical evidence of strangulation. Bruising of the carotid artery is quite visible unless something like a cloth is used. There is a technique that will apply pressure against the artery that will not show as readily, but that is not a widely known thing.
On a fair-skinned person like Tila Tequila, bruising of the arterial area on the neck will show up, especially if the pressure is applied by a human hand.
Considering that she claimed that the guy did strangle her, the medical personnel who examined her would know what to look for.
Another thing is that considering that both of these people are high-profile celebrities, there would be a more vested interest in pursuing this case fairly if there was any evident facts that would either confirm or deny Tila's accusation (i.e. Rhianna and Chris Brown).
As a practical matter, being choked and being strangled are synonyms.
ESPECIALLY if you're on the receiving end of the choking or strangling.
So it's pretty nitpicky to even bring that up.
As for Tequila's injuries - she posted pictures on the internet showing the bruises on her arms - handprint shaped bruises so it was really obvious she had been physically attacked, by a much larger - and presumably male - attacker, a guy probably about the size of Shawn Merriman.