Not questioning the purple wig (which I actually think sort of rocks), but in the midst of her bizarro interview, she (see 1:55 in) calls an interviewer out on the double standard that women artists get expressing sexuality as opposed to male rock artists, but then quickly shies away from the f-word:
You see, if I was a guy, and I was sitting her with a cigarette in my hand, grabbing my crotch and talking about how I make music 'cause I love fast cars and fucking girls, you'd call me a rock star. But when I do it in my music and in my videos, because I'm a female, because I make pop music, you're judgmental, and you say that it is distracting. I'm just a rock star.Are you also a feminist?
I'm not a feminist - I, I hail men, I love men. I celebrate American male culture, and beer, and bars and muscle cars... (Emphasis mine)
Sigh, and the stigma continues. Good on Gaga for making a feminist statement, but bad on her for not owning it as one.
Community poster fwordspeaks also offers thoughts on the video.
0 TrackBacks
Listed below are links to blogs that reference this entry: Why Lady Gaga, why? .
TrackBack URL for this entry: http://www.feministing.com/cgi-bin/movabletype/mt-tb.fcgi/15298
Oh I don't know. People shy away from labels and if there's ever a label thats misunderstood its the F-word. Michelle Obama did the same thing. Even on this blog there is a HUGE difference of opinion over what it means to be a feminist.
cattarack2 you're dead on! I want to recommend this blog to a lot of my friends but I'm sometimes embarrassed by the (to me) strange and (to me) outlandish correlations that are made between your ordinary, every day turn-of-events and man/woman equality. I do like that Jessica and company are trying to turn the negative connotations that belong to Feminism around but some of the leaps that are made on this blog seem downright, well, paranoid. They work against Feministing's goal. I'll never forget the first time I heard an interview with Jessica. It was on the Laura Ingram show (don't ask...I have an obsession with talk radio. REALLY CAN'T STAND LAURA INGRAM). After hearing her obliterate Laura re: the Purity Myth I literally thought "that is a message I want to be a part of! That is something I have to be involved in!" I still feel that way but sometimes when I read the seemingly outlandish accusations and correlations on this blog I start to think "maybe I'm not a Feminist". I mean cliches have an origin, don't they?
i dont think its the shying away from labels thing that stresses me out as much as what follows that. by saying "im not a feminist. i hail men...[blah blah blah]" she is saying that feminism and loving men are mutually exclusive. thats the gross part of this.
I don't know if she's BAD for not owning the label. One of the reasons I enjoy the feminist blogosphere is because there are NO women in my real-world life who identify as feminists. They flinch and complain about double standards. They hate sexism. They recognize that they get the short end of the stick simply for being a woman. But they still voice the same sort of views about the term "feminist" as Lady GaGa did. It's quite a relief to come here and speak with lots of people who do claim the label and understand it. But I'd never call all these women in my life BAD.
I feel like celebs take a lot of flack since so many people pay attention to what they say (and to be honest, I have never, ever understood why people who entertain us with their singing and acting are, at the same time, worshipped and obsessed over by their consumers. I love Lady GaGa's album, but I could care less what she's saying and who she's dating). However, they're really just like the rest of us - just because they embrace some feminist ideals doesn't mean they embrace all of them, or understand all of them. We're all butting heads on this site all the time, I'm sure if you put one of us self-proclaimed feminists in the celebrity spotlight, she'd eventually say something that had half of us groaning in pain.
Tru dat!
You know what? The whole "Oh no, I'm not a feminist! I don't endorse [insert archaic feminist stereotype]" is just ignorant. I'm done sighing over it and pussyfooting around people's ignorant-assed feelings about it and ready to call it what it is when and where I see it. YMMV.
Also, I'm done supporting anyone who espouses that view. Bye, Gaga.
Plenty of prominent women do not associate themselves with feminism, and, honestly, I'm fine with listening to their reasons. Sometimes, they do have good reasons. But when you say it's because you support the masculine culture of beers and bars and muscle cars, you just show that, for one thing, you don't know much about feminism, and for another, you aren't really willing to reflect on that culture that you're supporting to see how it affects women (and also men). It's just ridiculous.
The thing is, so many feminists ideals and exposure have a anti-men sentiment where it doesn't distinguish between men who are anti-woman and men who are down with the cause or just plain old men who love and respect women and their rights and the fact that we are equal yet anatomically different human beings. Then there are fat is feminism sentiments that alienate thinner women, there are the we must continue to work after having children sentiments that alienate stay at home moms, anti-breastfeeding sentiments that alienate moms who breastfeed, anti- tradition sentiments that alienate women who want their fathers to walk them down the aisle, wear engagement ring with pride of their relationship or those who take on their husband's last name. When the sentiment truly becomes freedom of choice and not freedom to be everything feminism says you should want to and actually be then more women will embrace a feminist label. Until then, many are alienated not because they disagree with equal rights for women but the sentiments in the crevices of the cause that excludes them with prejudice.
This. I almost renounced calling myself a feminist after being told many times that my choices were incompatible with feminism - I was once, for example, sneered at by a woman at my women's college for saying (when asked about my future plans) that I planned to have children after getting my degree and might take time off from work to do so. My boyfriend used to call himself a feminist but ended up deeply alienated by the small but vocal anti-male section of the movement. We both agree with all that feminism stands for and work hard for gender equality, but it's easy to see why a few bad seeds can scare people off wanting to take the name.
Two of my female friends who have a ton in common and were even roommates in college each did that "25 things about me" thing for Facebook last year. One noted that she was a Feminist, and the other that she was not, although they have identical views on most of the issues associated with Feminism (and are both highly educated career women.) It was interesting that they'd have the same substantive views but one would embrace and one would reject the label.
I agree that there is no overarching authority on what “feminist” means. Therefore, we can have a man-hating feminist and a non-man-hating feminist. Both are still feminists, they just define their feminism differently.
However, I have to strongly disagree with you on another point. Feminism SHOULDN’T be about freedom of choice, but freedom of EDUCATED choice. If a woman blindly allows “tradition” to rule her world, all women will stay second class citizens. If anti-fat women continue to espouse the meme “fat people are lazy and don’t exercise or eat properly and therefore have bad health” it is just as bad as fat women saying “real women have curves.” If a woman genuinely CHOOSES to be a stay at home mom, or have her father walk her down the aisle, I can’t see how that is counter to feminism if that choice was of her own free will and not unfairly influenced by the patriarchy.
LOL
Feminism in all it's variations alienates just about everybody for different reasons.
I don't want to be associated with the other-focused third wave feminism,nor do I want to be associated with traditional wifey/mommy feminism.
And no I don't hate all men, just MRA types who should be used for medical research,or maybe rendered down to biofuel, then they would be good for something.
All is lost... all is lost...
I vote for issuing copies of Full Frontal Feminism to every woman. That would clear up some of the confusion about what feminism is and isn't.
Joan
This.
Just women, huh?
We can issue them to men too.
Joan
i would say that gaga's statement is mostly true. It isn't that feminism and men are mutually exclusive or oppositional, but i do think that feminism should oppose such ridiculous displays of masculinity- like muscle cars.
i kinda like muscle cars...
but i do think that feminism should oppose such ridiculous displays of masculinity- like muscle cars.
I completely disagree. I love "beers, bars, and muscle cars" and I'm a feminist. I have no problem with conventionally masculine interests and anyone who enjoys and pursues them. I have a problem with conventional gender roles and how heteronormative our society is, obviously, but that doesn't mean I oppose muscle cars and beer.
I don't think feminism should oppose anything traditionally constructed as masculine or traditionally constructed as feminine. I thought the whole point of this website/the movement was so we could have MORE choices and not neccesarily be defined by a narrow definition of femininity.
You can have my Mustang when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands.
I'd like to say i'm disappointed by Gaga's here... but really i'm not. this isn't something shocking. I mean if A LOT of people consider feminists 'man haters', and a lot of your fans are men, you're going to develop that opinion when your view is myopic and you haven't checked a dictionary lately. Gaga's very fun and interesting, but how she feels about feminism isn't shocking to me at all sadly. *yawn*.
Her reason is what is so irritating. It's not that she hates labels--she doesn't want people to think she hates men. *headdesk*
I loved this interview, except for the one statement. It was disappointing, I agree, but it made me think why? My immediate reaction was: But I love beers, bars, and muscle cars too and I'm a feminist. I sleep with men and I'm a feminist. These things are not mutually exclusive. Does she know anything about feminism, or is this for publicity reasons?
I honestly believe Lady Gaga knows what feminism is, and she also knows what the general public thinks about feminism. I believe she made that statement with her publicity and her image in mind, whether she thinks it's actually true or not. I would assume she knows what feminism is, especially considering her affiliations with the GLBT community, her general beliefs on sexuality, and her light deviation from conventional gender roles. I am disappointed because by distancing herself she perpetuates the same viewpoint she is trying not to be associated with.
Full disclosure: My total crush on Lady Gaga continues even though she broke my feminist heart during this interview.
Yeah, it seems REALLY odd that she was talking about how great the LGBT community is, and then facepalms feminisim. It just seemed like a cheap image move. LGBT is a lot more popular than feminism it would seem.
Wow! Thank you, Lady Gaga, for exposing me as a non-feminist. I had no idea that my love of beer and hanging out with the guys meant I could not be a feminist. I guess I'll stop reading this blog every day now
She missed an opportunity for sure. I was thinking to myself: "Guess I'll have to go be a doormat now because I like beer and '81 Monte Carlos!"
Dictionary.com defines FEMINISM as:
1. the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
2. (sometimes initial capital letter) an organized movement for the attainment of such rights for women.
3. feminine character.
Feminism can be perceived in a lot of different ways thanks in part to the still uphill battle we have across the globe, but I think Gaga's comment is weak in the face of what the movement really stands for. It's 2009, not 1979. I thought people knew better.
Along the "I was a feminist but..." lines, IMHO, I'm sad to hear people are still giving in to such narrow descriptions of feminism. In order to change minds and hearts, we sometimes need to stand up to people who are narrow-minded, and this includes our sisters who have decided their anger is paramount to personal growth. Sure, terrible shit happens -- every day I see terrible examples of destruction widely attributed to patriarchal conditioning -- but I cannot hate 49% of the population just because of the way the culture has manifested itself in some VERY bad apples. There's some creepy women out there as well.
I think that now more than ever, openly questioning the bile spit by the very few women who genuinely ARE passionate man-haters as well as standing up to clueless people is a part of what will help us evolve in the long term. This is as important as standing up to sexist men. Without the other side of the equation, we're doomed to repeating the same old "I'm not a feminist but..." line until our rights are slowly ebbed back, and I think that either we need a new word, or we need to take the title of Feminism back in earnest. I don't hate black people just because I was raped by a black guy years ago, and I don't curse motorcyclists just because I occasionally get cut off by one on the freeway. I don't say "I'm not a feminist, but..." just because I got cussed out once by a woman when I told her I liked to listen to Michael Jackson and have sex with men.
We can do better. I'm a feminist because I believe wholeheartedly in the equality of men and women. I'm weary of stereotypes. I've met some bad-ass female firefighters, and I've met men who love nothing more than to stay at home with the kids while mom runs an office. These things are all possible because of feminism, not in spite of it.
Bravo, Auriane!
"grabbing my crotch and talking about how I make music 'cause I love fast cars and fucking girls, you'd call me a rock star."
Actually we'd call you a douche. AKA Bret michaels.
Really there is nothing to be praised of such a shallow lifestyle.
PS: Madonna did this years ago...I'll take the original thank you very much.
I believe she was speaking to the interviewer.
Although she made a good point about the double standard about being sexual, I just found her to be pretty pretentious and annoying. I think there's a line between being assertive and arrogant, and she crossed it (mainly with her unwillingness to answer a question and the attitude she gave the interviewer).
Her music isn't that great, and it's not so much the fact that she's sexual that is annoying, because a woman making sexual music isn't a bad thing. I just think her music and lyrics are shallow, and not so much empowering but more laughable. Then again, I don't really like most pop music.
Also, I don't think Lady Gaga is a huge loss in the feminist department. I wouldn't be too proud to be associated with a person who badly sings about riding disco sticks.
Not identifying as a feminist isn't what offends me. The author of the Womanist Musings blog doesn't identify as a feminst, and she has a damn good reason for not, and she still writes eloquently about sexism and gender issues. It is not identifying as a feminist for a really dumb reason-like this-that bugs me. The fact that LG can openly love so-called "male" culture has the feminist movement to thank. If she had just said a simple "no" or "no comment" to that question, or gave a good reason for not identifying as a feminist, than I would not lose respect for her.
Not identifying as a feminist isn't what offends me. The author of the Womanist Musings blog doesn't identify as a feminst, and she has a damn good reason for not, and she still writes eloquently about sexism and gender issues. It is not identifying as a feminist for a really dumb reason-like this-that bugs me. The fact that LG can openly love so-called "male" culture has the feminist movement to thank. If she had just said a simple "no" or "no comment" to that question, or gave a good reason for not identifying as a feminist, than I would not lose respect for her.
It's a shame that someone with such charisma who is such an interesting performer has failed, as a female, to do anything positive for women. I'm sick of her music videos that glorify sexual violence, like the one for "Paparazzi" among others, especially when she turns around and snaps at her interviewers about how she's an "artist". She makes me want to vomit. I don't consider her work "art" and I think that until she takes off her wig and admits that she's nothing more than a vamped up Britney Spears I won't be taking her or her "art" seriously in the least. You have to do more than just make people uncomfortable and be completely rude in interviews to be an artist.
You see the allure of my alternate approach, which is to intentionally know nothing about said person, and if I do accidentally learn something, huff some gas on a rag until I forget.
yes.
Stating the obvious again ? The mainstream likes certain things about men and other things about women. There are (many) men who like women who are big muscular bodybuilders or very masculine in their behaviour, or women who like effeminate men, but the majority does not.
I think she did not want to alienate her audience.
She is a popstar, not Kid Rock. Maybe she is just not the type to sit at an interview and say f this f that, even if she pointed out those differences.
I think the assumption that everyone KNOWS what feminism IS (for real-- i.e. the basic notion that men and women are equal) is not correct.
I mean, sure, on here, everyone 'knows' what feminism is. But how about in real life? For example, how many community posts do self-described feminists blog about how they shy away from defending feminists or women in real life for one reason or another? How many feminists censor themselves for their friends and family on their feminist beliefs? I'm not accusing here, I'm just throwing these questions out there re: education of the general public about what feminism really is.
Why should I assume that Lady Gaga even knows what a feminist _really_ is?
You know, along these lines, I think it's either
1. that she doesn't know what a feminist really is, which is why she made the comment in the first place
or
2. that she just had the typical case of nervous diarrhea mouth that sometimes plagues new artists when interviewed. Anyone here recall the Sheryl Crow/John O'Brien debacle on David Letterman about 13 years ago? See here: http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1769
I don't think people who listen to mostly pop music these days are concerned with their political views. Hell, they don't even care if these "artists" don't write their own songs or sing with their own voices or sing at their concerts. Music is a distraction for them, not an art form. In other words, I don't think most of her listeners are going to be bothered by this, if they see it at all. They'll be using her album as a coaster in a few months.
Meh-- that's a pretty broad statement. I listen to pop music (both during "these days" and "older days", along with other stuff, and I'm politically active. She actually does write a lot of her stuff. And even if she didn't-- what bearing does that have on any of this?
What Katie93 said.
The not identifying as a feminist thing doesn't bother me so much. (There are plenty of people who support women's rights/equity who don't wear the label feminist for many reasons.)
It's the blatant repetition of the stereotype that "Omg! I love men! Therefore I can't possibly be a feminist."
Or any similar refrain.
Far too many people still seem to take this stereotype as truly definitive.
I think the feminist bar is set pretty low if saying in effect boys can be idiots why can't I? is the mark. Second she doesn't have a lick of talent.
I am a fan of Lady Gaga's music, on a fun-to-dance-to level (not so much a this-moves-me-emotionally level). I love the crazy styles and her far out spaceyness. But this interview bothered me for more reasons than just her dismissal of feminism with a painfully simplistic justification (like others said, it can be valid to reject the label if you have a good reason, but her's was just not good). It got me thinking about how much responsibility pop artists should have to have stances on social and political issues in general. There is innate value in having creative output, so many that's enough of a contribution to make to society. Maybe the fact that she's a woman making music, and sexually explicit music at that, is enough. But then I thought, no. On a personal level, I think I just have a statute of limitations for people who enjoy the privilege of being "fabulous" without having anything to say. Like, worshipping nothingness, worshiping style and art, is intriguing, but has a shelf life. So the trouble for me, I guess, is that she refuses to admit that her persona and her person are two different things. Because if what she says is true, then she's a shell. You can turn yourself into art, but you have to be a person as well. Thing is I don't think it's true that she is the same internally as her stage/media persona, so the fact that she's endorsing this union pisses me off. But then again maybe she's just really smart, making herself a product so blatantly, so self-consciously. So I guess that's better than doing it surreptitiously.
That made a little less sense than I intended it to.
Oh, I'm not passionate about it or anything, but I don't particularly care for this woman, and I'm not surprised by her answer here. She doesn't strike me as particularly thoughtful, which as a self-proclaimed "artist" you'd think she should be. She wants to be known as a quirky, weird, genius "arteest," and while I do admire some of her fashion choices and enjoy that the way these choices subvert the purpose of much of pop female fashion (to be sexy), I really don't think she has the musical creativity or thoughtfulness to back up her arrogance.
She definitely needs to look up the definition of feminism, because I don't think this is the first time she's been asked about it. She's in a position to publicly take pride in her gender, and voice concerns about modern issues. That said, I don't think her presence in the pop world is all bad... I prefer her to a lot of the others... and while I enjoy her open sexuality, it is not particularly new or revolutionary to the pop world.
I guess my conclusion is... meh. Sorry if that was confused/confusing.
This is reminding me depressingly of going to the hardware store with a (female) buddy of mine not too long ago, with a feminist-y quote on my shirt, and having the counter guy ask "you're not a feminist or something, right?" like it was some crazy evil philosophy. Then my buddy mucked it up further with "Yeah, but not the kind that hate men! ^_^" This guy could have been more than 18, and here he is associating feminism practically with white supremacy.
I used to be firmly in the "I'm for equal rights, but not feminism, because I think women have gone too far" camp - yes, I spent a lot of time around MRAs - until seeing the depths of that train of thought run off the crazy cliff and getting out in the world, seeing more of peoples lives. So my views have come around, and now I find it sad how much man-hating and feminism are intertwined in the public mind. You can say you're for equal rights, but not say you're a feminist.