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When lonely men and misogyny collide

Okay, here's the thing. This New York Times Magazine article about men in Japan who have romantic relationships with imaginary characters inspires nothing if not pity.

These 2-D lovers, as they are called, are a subset of otaku culture-- the obsessive fandom that has surrounded anime, manga and video games in Japan in the last decade. It's impossible to say exactly what portion of otaku are 2-D lovers, because the distinction between the two can be blurry. Like most otaku, the majority of 2-D lovers go to work, pay rent, hang out with friends (some are even married). Unlike most otaku, though, they have real romantic feelings for their toys. The less extreme might have a hidden collection of figurines based on anime characters that they go on "dates" with during off hours. A more serious 2-D lover, like Nisan, actually believes that a lumpy pillow with a drawing of a prepubescent anime character on it is his girlfriend.

That's sad, undoubtedly - and the men profiled in this piece are clearly very lonely, so it's difficult to begrudge them a fantasy life with an imaginary character. But here's the thing - not only are the men who indulge in these "relationships" lusting after characters that are supposed to be somewhere between 10 and 12 years old, one of the reasons they like them is because they're devoid of annoying things like opinions and personality. So is the perfect woman a blank-slate little girl?

Much like the Real Doll enthusiasts who tout sex with their "girlfriends" as "just like sex with an organic woman...who doesn't say anything and is brimful of Quaaludes," much of the attraction here seems to be the ability to imbue any kind of personality (or lack thereof) onto an inanimate object. And then believing that object is better than real human interaction.

"I was steps away from getting married," he explained earnestly when prodded about his experience. "You have to make sure you don't hurt a real person; you have to watch what you say, and you have to keep your room clean. In Japan, it's not O.K. to like another person if you're already with somebody else. With an anime character, you can like one character one day and a different character the next."

But this is all stuff we've discussed before (in fact, I discuss it in my book!). In this particular piece, it was the age of the characters that really got to me.

When Momo talks about Karada-chan, his mousy face lights up like a kid opening Christmas presents. "Her existence to me is like daughter, younger sister and bride all put into one."

Not. Okay. Assuming these men develop relationships with real women - will it be women that they're actually looking for, or little girls?

Related: She's Twelve, She's Scantily Clad, And a Thirty Year Old's Dating Her. She's a Pillow.

Posted by Jessica - July 27, 2009, at 05:01PM | in Arts , Media , Sexism

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64 Comments

[0+] Author Profile Page ms.cris said:

This extreme level of loneliness and delusion isn't confined to men on the fringes of fandom, but exists with women too.

It seems like the desire for an imaginary boy or girlfriend stems from the fact that a character you "create" is emotionally safe. Because you control the fantasy, you never have to worry about heartbreak or rejection.

I'm not sure it's solely misogynistic then. Obviously the cited examples in your post and the article are clear cases of patriarchal conceptions of relationship, but it seems to bear only a correlative and not causal relationship to patriarchy.

[0+] Author Profile Page The Boggart replied to ms.cris :

Although I'm sure that there must be women in similar relationships, a single anecdote isn't sufficient evidence of a phenomenon.

Similarly, I felt that the article itself also tended to conflate anecdotes with statistics, and that the statistics included seemed a little unlikely to me (e.g. over 25% of Japanese between 30 and 34 apparently are virgins). So, I did some Googling and it turned out that I wasn't alone in my suspicions. This blog, http://www.japanprobe.com/ (scroll down midway to "Problems with New York Times Report on 2-D Love in Japan") summarises some of the factual issues with the article raised by bloggers.

I hoped that this style of unprofessional "oh look at wacky Japan" journalism had died out along with Mainichi's WaiWai column, since not only does it sacrifice truth for attention-grabbing headlines, but it also continuously erodes Japan's international image. I bet that if you asked somebody what they thought of Japan, their answers would be strongly influenced by sensationalist and prurient tabloid stories like this one.

You know, this brings up some of the horrified feelings I've had regarding the fanfiction culture as well. It's kind of unnerving that people can write such detailed fiction stories and create such lewd images surrounding characters such as those found in Harry Potter, common anime cartoons, or children's sci-fi series ... odd ...

[0+] Author Profile Page Meep replied to vyzion360 :

I both write and read fanfiction, including Harry Potter fanfiction. However, it is important to note that the majority of the smutty stuff - at least of what I've seen - deals with characters who are of age, either canon adults or the main characters in the future. (I also make a point to avoid chan, as it is not my thing, and my favorite pairings are all canon adults, anyway.)

There is a rather unfortunate stereotype of fanfiction as always porn and always about underage characters, but it is possible to be involved in fanfiction fandom and not read or write shota-/loli-con (or erotica).

Okay, so maybe that was off topic, but fandom's had some rather large arguments about these topics and it's frustrating to see something you enjoy be tarred as entirely creepy when it's ... not.

[0+] Author Profile Page edward_wunderkind replied to Meep :

Agreed. I have read and written fanfiction myself and completely agree.

[0+] Author Profile Page katemoore replied to Meep :

Yeah. God forbid people ever create detailed fictional stories around other people's characters. What must they be thinking? I mean, man. All those mythology writers. All those authors who write alternate interpretations. What a bunch of creepy basement-dwelling losers.

[0+] Author Profile Page rustyspoons said:

Maybe it's for the best that they just confine themselves to their toys and creepy lolicon pillows?

[0+] Author Profile Page JustACommenter said:

How is this different from dildos and vibrators?

Dildos and vibrators aren't attached to sexualized images of children.

[0+] Author Profile Page JustACommenter replied to Citizen Lane :

"Dildos and vibrators aren't attached to sexualized images of children."

And neither is the Real Doll (which was mentioned by Jesicca in her post).

Would you be fine with the lumpy pillow if ,instead of a prepubescent female anime character, it had a mature one instead?

If folks want to have a Real Doll, all good. I'm not anti-sex toy, and I'm not anti Real Doll. I AM anti-calling said plastic toy your "girlfriend," and wishing all women were as empty and passive as her.

[0+] Author Profile Page Concerned Marsupial replied to Jessica :

I think some men who use real dolls don't necessarily want real, actual women to be empty and passive. They want a relationship with a female-bodied entity that is passive and whose preferences (whether actually experienced or merely expressed) are (ideally) completely aligned with theirs (or that have their own personalities, but such that any conflicting preferences from such entities could be overridden without harming the entities). A cuddly p-zombie, if you will. There is a difference. They recognize that real women cannot provide such a relationship and could never be such entities, so instead of emotionally abusing real women and trying to make them something they are not, they use real dolls and project their desires onto them.

Whether it's particularly bad or not to wish that such entities existed is a good question. It has yet to be demonstrated that it harms other people more than any other arbitrary preference concerning relationships (and we all have those).

I think most of us want our SOs to correspond to our preferences, but we would think there could be no such thing as a real relationship with a p-zombie, so we naturally think it's disturbing when people want such relationships. And yet if our SOs were replaced with perfect p-zombies without our knowledge, we would be completely convinced we are in a valid, bilateral relationship with an actual person. So if some people are able to suspend the knowledge that they are having a relationship with a p-zombie or something similar, and enjoy such a relationship, more power to them, IMO.

[0+] Author Profile Page Meep replied to JustACommenter :

I think the issue here is that the pillows represent underage characters and the, erm, relationship isn't just about sexual release but has an emotional component, as well. The quotes make it sound, at least, as if these men prefer the pillows to real women basically because the pillows don't talk back.

Also, as I've already said but will say again for emphasis, the characters that they represent are underage. The original post on the Feministing community stated that the characters may be as young as nine.

[0+] Author Profile Page JustACommenter replied to Meep :

"I think the issue here is that the pillows represent underage characters and the, erm, relationship isn't just about sexual release but has an emotional component, as well. The quotes make it sound, at least, as if these men prefer the pillows to real women basically because the pillows don't talk back."

In some ways I think it is good. Instead of being in relationships with real, live women and hurting them by their actions these guys are quarantined away wih these objects. As long as these guys do not harm real people it should be nobody's business how they achieve emotional and sexual pleasure.

[0+] Author Profile Page Kimberly replied to JustACommenter :

Seriously? My vibrator is not my boyfriend. It wasn't when I was single either. It doesn't replace any human interaction in my life. It's a masturbatory tool. There are no more romantic feeling associated with a vibrator than with a toothbrush.

I put this in the first person as I don't want to speak for others, but I suspect I'm not alone in this.

[0+] Author Profile Page aleks replied to JustACommenter :

Sex toys: Sex without another person
Dating pillow: Emotional relationship without another person
Underage: Bad

Got that?

[0+] Author Profile Page JustACommenter replied to aleks :

"Sex toys: Sex without another person
Dating pillow: Emotional relationship without another person
Underage: Bad"

I agree with the "Underage" aspect. That is definitely creepy. What is so wrong about the Dating pillow otherwise?

[0+] Author Profile Page aleks replied to JustACommenter :

I don't care at all. I've been in a committed relationship with Natalie Portman since high school.

Judgemental much?

Let's see, a vibrator or dildo is a tool used to help one achieve orgasm - it's like an improvement on the finger.

If a woman bought a vibrator fashioned into the image of a little boy, and believed that the two were in a relationship, you might have a point.

[0+] Author Profile Page Eurekamoment replied to SarahMC :

That sounds pretty good. Would it help around the house?

[0+] Author Profile Page electrictoaster replied to JustACommenter :

Not all dildos and vibrators are actually meant to look like a penis. Personally I find those "realistic" ones really creepy as well, though that's mostly because they remind me more of a horror movie prop than something sexy -- yummy, dismembered dick, my favorite! A lot of them look like exactly what they are -- toys. For fun. You could argue that most of the abstract ones are vaguely phallic and I would argue that is coincidence. They aren't meant to be shaped like a penis so much as they are meant to be shaped to suit the inside of a vagina. Sticking an octagonal prism up my snatch would probably hurt, which is probably why the octagonal-prism-shaped-penis gene died out early on in our evolution. :]

I actually think framing women's sex toys as being replacement penises is harmful to both men and women. It can cause some men to feel jealous and insecure because of a piece of rubber with a motor inside, which is pretty screwed-up and can lead to some women feeling guilty for using them when they're in a relationship. It also ignores the facts that:

- het couples use these toys together
- lots of single women use toys not because they can't get the 'real thing', but because they would just rather masturbate right now
- lesbians who use dildos/vibes don't *actually* want a real man/penis to fix 'em up
- straight men who use dildos/vibes (to reach their prostate or whatever else) don't *actually* want a real man/penis to fix 'em up

Sex-toy-as-replacement-man makes no sense when compared to reality.

[0+] Author Profile Page aleks said:

There's a very strong and disturbing strain of pedophilia in Japanese concepts of female sexuality. Many Japanese men like their women to look and act as young as possible, and many Japanese women oblige.

[0+] Author Profile Page Meep replied to aleks :

I'm not sure this is a uniquely Japanese phenomenon, however. Doesn't American culture also infantalize women and place an inordinate amount of value on "purity" and very young (e.g., hairless) bodies? Maybe not technically pedophilia, but it borders on ephebophilia, to be sure.

There's also a whole "culture of cute" in Japan, which may be related but is not inherently sexal(ized).

[0+] Author Profile Page aleks replied to Meep :

I don't think it's the same thing. Yes, barbie-girl pretty pretty pink princess at 40 culture in the US is annoying and degrading, but from my 4 months of living in Japan and friendships and relationship with Japanese since then it's a whole different and very sexualized thing ("kawaii kodomo," "cute child"). As for prioritizing sexual purity, the US doesn't begin to come close to Japan. I love Japan, but one of the less appealing aspects is an extreme sexual repression that bursts out in strange and often very creepy ways. Just like congressional Republicans.

[0+] Author Profile Page aleks replied to aleks :

To clarify, when I say they want girls to be as young as possible, I don't mean "barely legal," I mean 12.

[0+] Author Profile Page Lily A replied to aleks :

Yeah, to me that's an important distinction. Sure, in the US, we fetishize youth... but in general we recognize it as problematic when an adult prefers women to act or look (or BE) reasonably under the age of consent (not to mention physical maturity).

[0+] Author Profile Page nikki#2 replied to aleks :

I know what you mean. I was suprised to see how so many japanese women infantilize them selves to be more cute. Especially when men were around.

[0+] Author Profile Page insomniac replied to aleks :

I think that can be traced to the historic concept of beauty=youth in Japan. The bishoujo and bishounen which has somehow been watered down and mixed in with patriarchal constraints due to which, the bishoujo has continued in RL and bishounen only with idols & in BL manga/anime/dorama.

[0+] Author Profile Page theology_nerd said:

Ugh, creepy. I'm feeling equal levels of disgust at and pity for these men...but I think that pity wins out. I don't think that these guys are just evil and twisted, because stuff like this just *has* to stem from deeper problems. I don't know if misogyny plays a role in this (it might, I'm just not sure we can jump to that conclusion), or if it's just a bunch of men who are too emotionally immature and/or warped to have a healthy relationship with a real woman.

[0+] Author Profile Page aleks replied to theology_nerd :

Japanese culture teaches men to be very stoic and unemotional. There is a great deal of segregation between the sexes at all ages, so men and women don't always learn how to relate to each other. Add to that the high-tech nature of Japanese society, where people deal with computers so much, and the incredible time and energy and identification commitment required of employees by Japanese companies, and a lot of Japanese men just never get "socialized" to interacting with women.

Before the "So you're saying all . . ."'s start coming in, no, I'm not.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tara K. said:

While our first reaction is probably negative (disgusted, creeped out, etc), I then had to ask myself if perhaps this is a healthy way for a pedophile to enjoy a relationship?

I'm not saying that ALL of these pillow people are pedophiles. But some people truly feel sexually only toward children, no matter how much therapy they have. While it is never okay for them to act upon a child, shouldn't we have a point at which, if they harm no one else, we allow them their own thing? Many pedophiles struggle with their feelings and would never enact them with a child. If this could provide a solution for their feelings, I think it's okay.

I have to say, though, I really don't get the "2-D world" stuff. Not that I don't like it/agree with it, but I just really never got the gist of what they were talking about. Overall illustrated world?

[0+] Author Profile Page Athenia replied to Tara K. :

For an anime character, his pillow could totally pass for a 16 year old---nipples and pubic hair have a tradition of being banned in all forms--mainstream anime, manga etc, so just cuz the character is bare doesn't mean she's 12.

So, what I'm trying to say is that he could be very well not be interested in children sexually--what he's interested in, is the 2D character. A real live child would probably be too much for him---the fantasy can't be acted out on a real live child.

I have no idea what I'm defending these creeps.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tara K. replied to Athenia :

The age range (10-12) is from the original article; I can't really see the pillow.

[0+] Author Profile Page TheSquirrelHasFive replied to Tara K. :

Character is actually a 3rd year in middle school, so possibly 15? I remember reading about the series it was part of. Characters from tons of anime and manga can easily pass off as being younger than they are.

[0+] Author Profile Page Concerned Marsupial replied to Tara K. :

You make a good point about outlets for pedophiles. That's why I think the UK's decision to ban cartoon child porn is bullshit.

I have a lot of sympathy for pedophiles who are not child molesters, actually. Most people use the two terms completely interchangeably, and if someone were to out themselves as a pedophile, they would likely be judged as a horrible and evil person regardless of their behavior (and likely become a victim of violence). Most of us are lucky that we can enjoy sex that's not morally problematic, so we certainly shouldn't be making the lives of those who cannot any harder than they already are.

I have to agree with you here.

Wouldn't the world be a better place if pedophiles simply masturbated about their fantasies with inanimate objects, instead of wrecking the lives of real live children?

Perhaps this would be a good "harm reduction" strategy to retrain pedophiles so they have a safe harmless outlet for their sexual urges that keeps real live children safe from abuse - because it's fairly obvious that the present methods of dealing with pedophiles Simply Do Not Work.

[0+] Author Profile Page Athenia said:

If I had a penny for every Look-at-How-Weird-Japanese-Otaku-Are article....I'd be a rich woman.

I think the more interesting question is--why are these people having *such* a hard time connecting with real people?

I also have a hard time believing that 50% of Japanese don't have opposite friends.

Also, I don't necessarily think that these people want a blank slate since they want an relationship with these things---hence their very active imagination.

"I think the more interesting question is--why are these people having *such* a hard time connecting with real people?"

Since many realize we are talking about a small population of people, how about recognized conditions such as autism or Asperger's Syndrome? How about the fact that even if they did not own dolls or express feelings for inanimate objects, minors, or fictional characters, it might be the real people around them who would be avoiding them, even if they did want real human companionship, perceiving them as "losers" or "loners?"

Interested people should also look into the phenomenon of "hikikomori" or shut-ins in Japan, also from the NY Times magazine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/15/magazine/15japanese.html

It's relevant to know about that aspect of Japanese culture, or what could lead one to it, to understand how some other people might turn to inanimate objects or fictional characters instead of human beings.

[0+] Author Profile Page nikki#2 replied to A male :

There is a fantastic manga about the hikikomori called 'welcome to the NHK'. I've only read the first few volumes but I just love it. It's hilarious, of course, but it also probes into the cultural causes of these poor characters neurosis.

[0+] Author Profile Page nikki#2 replied to nikki#2 :

maybe that should have been social causes?

[0+] Author Profile Page insomniac replied to nikki#2 :

It has an anime too!

Why is that hard to believe?

In much of the world opposite gender friendships are unknown - in most of Africa, the Middle East and Asia, the American concept of men and women being friends, or of any relationship between men and women other than marriage or being a relative, is an outlandish foreign concept.

I've personally known men who were born in East Asia who had never had a friendship with a woman in their entire lives.

They had wives, and they had female relatives, but no female friends in the American sense of the term.

There are parts of this country where opposite gender friendships are unknown as well, so it's really not that hard to understand at all.

[0+] Author Profile Page TheSquirrelHasFive said:

I'm not sure if I am outing myself as a crazy here or not, but I can understand the emotional attachment to a character. I myself feel emotionally connected to a character but in a sense that I understand them and find many similarities in myself and that character. Would I go as far as abandon everything around me to be with that character? No. Do I own merchandise of said character? Yes, but that still doesn't make me a real people-shunning psychopath. I'm engaged and my fiance is rather accepting understanding why I have emotional attachments to said character.

Might another reason for why some people do this have social/mental disorders that prevent them from interacting and feeling accepted by actual people. Try having anti-social disorder or some other mental or social disability where because of social ticks you are treated bad and understanding social situations might be difficult.

I am not defending these people's attachment to these underage character, but rather giving light to why they might do it. I find it kind of disgusting some of the posessiveness and extreme anti-social behaviour that can come along with such attachments.

[0+] Author Profile Page electrictoaster replied to TheSquirrelHasFive :

'Honda argues that romance was marketed so excessively ... that it has become a commodity and its true value has been lost; romance is so tainted with social constructs that it can be bought by only good looks and money. According to Honda, somewhere along the way, decent men like himself lost interest in the notion entirely and turned to 2-D.'

Yes... the true way to avoid commodification of romance is to buy a fake girlfriend.

[0+] Author Profile Page electrictoaster replied to electrictoaster :

Ah, that wasn't supposed to be a reply, sorry. I do have a social anxiety disorder, and I do help cope with that by forming emotional attachments to people who don't exist. But I think there is a crucial difference between that and this. I know those characters are not real; it would be incredibly unreasonable to pretend that I was in a relationship with them and expect everyone else to go along with this. I certainly wouldn't champion my coping mechanism as being superior or even equal to a real human relationship. There's also the fact that these guys tend to gravitate towards weak, passive, child-woman characters. If they were just lonely and strange, and not misogynist, you'd think there would be more men "dating" pillows of independent, adult characters.

[0+] Author Profile Page prince of nothing said:

Don't mean to be too crude here, but since that guy is not humping the pillow (from what I understand), may I suggest this relationship is rather akin to the relationship between people and their pets?

Meh, at least they are not building a fortified bunker, arming themselves with M16s and C4, and preparing for the second coming.

[0+] Author Profile Page blucheezz said:

The author writes as if these pillows are a legitimate substitute for human interaction, that it's just another form of relationship.

"Okayama has turned to 2-D for all his emotional needs — the desire to buy new anime helped him get through a period of unemployment in 2003, and his body-pillow girlfriends, whom he dates two or three at a time, consoled him when his first real-life girlfriend dumped him in 2007."

Sorry, but the pillow did not take an active role. He felt consoled by them, but they did not console him.

Left unmentioned is the role that material consumption and obsessive collection have in giving these men a sense of purpose. It's not just one toy they play with; these guys spend a lot of money to acquire large collections of fetish objects. There's something sad and wrong about it all, but the author just reports it at face value.

"Momo... has more than 150 body-pillow covers at home. His current favorite is Karada-chan, a copper-haired sixth grader... In Momo’s imagination and thus on his pillow cover, she appears naked, her cheeks flushed, her prepubescent nipples hidden by her forearms, her white panties rolled down to her ankles.

Every night, Karada-chan and at least two other animated preteens, drawn with large pink nipples and exaggerated labia, share a mattress with Momo, one on each side and another on top."

Come on NY Times! You don't have to present this like it's just another lifestyle choice.

"There's something sad and wrong about it all, but the author just reports it at face value."

Later:

"Come on NY Times! You don't have to present this like it's just another lifestyle choice."

Sensational or not, perhaps that is an attempt at objective journalism, and readers make their own judgments.

If these people are not harming others (e.g., stalking or assaulting real women) and have otherwise "normal" lives like holding down jobs (the interviewed men are probably not hikikomori), what makes this not "just another lifestyle choice?" There are many other examples of EXTREME male and female fan behavior, as well as people in our own culture who have emotional attachments to their inanimate objects like their beloved cars, or fictional characters like Harry Potter.

Ah but it is another lifestyle choice!

And it's not up to you - or to me - to judge these guys.

They're happy and they're not hurting anybody - so what's the problem?

Not everybody is cut out to have the conventional husband-wife-2.5 kids-dog-minivan life!

[0+] Author Profile Page jruka said:

I did not read all the comments, so I apologize if this derails conversation, or takes the conversation somewhere it has already been.

While I agree that there is something wrong with the men who engage in these 2-D relationships, I do think that by concentrating on their own perceived mental illness, we are concentrating on the wrong thing.

The problem with these 2-D relationships is that:

A)The 2-d "person" in the relationship is (from what I gather from the article) always the woman. Women are not carrying around pillowcases of nine year old manga/anime characters and carrying on an emotional relationship with said pillowcase.

B)The 2-d character is (again, from what I gather from the article) almost always childlike.

Because of both A & B, we should be asking, what soceital norms/expectations/idealistics are in place in which a 2-d complacent childlike sexed-up 2-d doll makes for a desirable girlfriend?

Furthermore, it is very clear that these men are not just suffering from personal troubles, but that there is a societal issue with gender roles and relationship expectations. If there was only one man doing this, I would say "he needs help." But the article clearly states that this man and his doll pillowcase are not one of a kind. That the Japanese even made an addition to their language to describe this phenomenon/this type of girlfriend.

[0+] Author Profile Page A male replied to jruka :

"Furthermore, it is very clear that these men are not just suffering from personal troubles, but that there is a societal issue with gender roles and relationship expectations."

Indeed.

There are commenters who point out how strange these men are, because women do not have emotional attachments to pillows, dolls, or sex toys. And why would they? Traditional thinking would lead women to seek the opposite of what these men are seeking: real live men with authority, money or power who are of "higher" standing than themselves. Perhaps they'd even like to be taken care of.

Which is what many women actually do, and in the US it is considered normal.

But what about a woman who for whatever social reason is incapable of finding a partner?

I thought the point of the doll is because some of these folk have trouble with a real life situation? So it seems to me that there could be plenty of women in this position. The real difference is economics. In places where men outearn women it makes sense that you'd have all of these dolls, robots and other objects catering to the male market.

But surely there are plenty of women in the same boat? So are these women bying the "sugar daddy" robot and pillow then?

"I thought the point of the doll is because some of these folk have trouble with a real life situation? So it seems to me that there could be plenty of women in this position."

As one can see in the comments here, and elsewhere, one attitude about these men is it is favorable for some men to be out of the gene pool. I agree.

OTOH, tell me, what kind of women would we be referring to, that would be doing the world a favor (probably not by choice) to be removed from the gene pool? Is there a feminist viewpoint on that?

"The real difference is economics."

I believe the difference is what people expect out of a partner, or the things to which they choose to become attached. Some men claim to have a human like attachment to their dolls, figures, or some fictional character.

In fact, young unmarried women are a driving force in the Japanese economy, because of their level of DISPOSABLE income; and have been since the last economic downturn. If not for young, MIDDLE CLASS Japanese women spending on travel abroad or Louis Vuitton bags, Japan would have been in a deeper hole. It used to be claimed that the equivalent of one woman in three in Japan owned Louis Vuitton (based on volume).

There are women who are more attached to foreign name brand items (and spend much more on them), than these even the most extreme of these male fanboys. Ta-bo (who does have a normal job) is known for spending about $170,000 on his over 100 love doll collection. I've seen and heard of middle class women who are head to toe Chanel, fill entire rooms with Louis Vuitton, or lust after Hermes. An exclusive Hermes bag in Japan going for $17,000 each.

[0+] Author Profile Page insomniac said:

Coming from a city where societal segregation of men and women takes place right from middle school, I can imagine how people might find it difficult to interact with the other gender.

Girls are supposed to be kawaii or moe and boys can be kakkoi till college and then nice office workers with a stable income when it comes to marriage. At least that's the impression I get from all the manga & anime I consume, my Japanese friends and my experience (although not very long) in Japan.

Combine these socially invoked reserve, gendered expectations and the break up of the joint family accelerated by urban migration, I can totally see how someone who isn't comfortable with a competitive social setting can retreat into being a hikkimori.

I had commented earlier about the fascination with youth that has been there in Japan historically and how I think patriarchy has filtered it to present day. Add to that, what blucheezz said about the material consumption that's present; obsessive collection of merchandise is prevalent in Japan and appeals to the hidden collector in everyone. Those with money can buy whatever they want. I think they prefer inanimate "girlfriends" who won't make any demands on them unlike a real one. Is this sexist? Yes, I think so. Is this only seen with men? I don't think so. Women in Japan seem to be going in for the host clubs where they get companionship with men of their choice for money. This is also as fictitious as the inanimate pillows, I personally think, and maybe even a bit more exploitative (for both).

All of the obvious disclaimers about how distressing the idea of anyone feeling or behaving in the manner described is, I'd like to know what anyone thinks should be done about it. It's easy enough to say "these dudes are creepy! What if they did something BAD!?" but um... what if? Is the fact that there are creepy things about the hobby being described indicative of anything in particular being different about what anyone might do in the actual world? And if so... what to do about it? Castigate? Wring hands? Blog?

I think that American armed forces definitely need set up another occupational governmental in Japan again until this subset of marginalized people acts in a way that is understandable to us.

[0+] Author Profile Page blondegirl said:

I've lived in Japan for sixteen years, and have seen it all. Nothing really surprises me anymore. The thing is, these guys are socially stunted and don't know how to make relationships with anyone,let alone a woman...let alone a SMART woman. They're not even really misogynist; they're just so incredibly shy and insecure that anyone with even a slightly strong personality would intimidate the hell out of them. I've met guys like that who were scared, actually SCARED, of me. *shrug* They don't hurt anyone, are completely harmless, so really it doesn't bother me.

The guys who watch the rape porn or play the rape video games however scare the hell out of me. THEY'RE the ones we need to be really worrying about.

"I've met guys like that who were scared, actually SCARED, of me."

I lived in Japan for twelve years. Traditional Japanese men regardless of age are intimidated by more modern thinking women, particularly white women from North America, the UK, western Europe, and Oceania.

I'm Japanese-American and I passed as Japanese while in Japan when I was also 5'7" and 130 lbs. Simply introducing me as American instantly affected people, down to making children up to senior high school age turn and run. It's the gaijin thing.

[0+] Author Profile Page brg said:

I reserve my disgust for the pillow manufacturers and not the mentally ill men purchasing them. I mean, let's not start taking shots at people in mental institutes which some of these men likely need to be in.

[0+] Author Profile Page j-doug said:

I'd theorize the video culture is a result of the negative aspects Japan's culture at large, specifically the persistence pervasiveness of rigid gender roles and favor for repressing healthy sexual interaction and communication. I'm not sure that the video games necessarily reinforce it. Would be an interesting study (that probably already exists somewhere).

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