The Peril and Promise of Pink
Seriously, marketing pink products to women is sexist. Many genders like pink!
Are they saying we are little girls that like pink? I am sure there is a relationship between marketing pink to little girls and grown women buying products that are pink, however, overall I think that is a weak relationship. Personally, I have never been a fan of pink, my favorite color is purple. The only grown folks I know that like pink are high femmes or gay men, but I guess that is just me.
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Real men wear pink.
I can't help but think of Della.
I think having technology available in a variety of cool-looking colors is great. The problems are that a) often when they make something pink (or purple, or whatever other "girly" shade) they sacrifice performance for looks and b) that fun colors are mainly marketed at women as accessories. I know lots of people that would like colors, not all are women and not all would like pink.
I'd totally rock a purple Macbook. Maybe I should get one of those hard cases...
What examples are there that the same product in a different colour is made with any less performance value?
unless of course i've misinterpreted it and you mean when there is only a pink version of the product, in which case there isn't a performance comparison
but yeah i think it's funny that pink products should be aimed at females, most don't even like the colour unless their under 7. But the corporate world has such a black and white look on things. No pun intended.
Della offered netbooks instead of notebooks and promoted them as eBook readers and diet monitors above anything else. There may not be an item-to-item comparison, but the general appearance of the pink stuff is not as good as other computers out there. Which insinuates that the girls don't need good technology.
I believe that this is inaccurate...on a few levels. First, the PC companies releasing colored PC's didn't just release pink for girls & black for boys, most of them had 5 or 6 different colors. Second, the only thing they changed was the color of the shell, not the performance of the machine. Third, maybe you're inadvertently comparing two different product lines; you can't compare a netbook PC to a notebook PC. Netbooks are meant to be lower in function & price (and they're manufactured in a variety of colors too).
Finally, if women didn't buy 'em, companies wouldn't make 'em. Personally I hate pink, but I have a lot of friends who rock it.
"Finally, if women didn't buy 'em, companies wouldn't make 'em."
That's the same tripe as "well sexism sells so therefore it's okay." Please. Did you even read Liza's comment above about how not only was the Della pink but it was marketed as a way to monitor your diet and things of that nature. It's insulting to advertise to women in that way. Assuming we wouldn't care about other things like quality and performance in our machines...just make them pretty and help me lose weight :) Ugh.
Yes, of course, I read her post. And then I went out and read the article she cited. And I looked at a few more after that. I used the word "inaccurate" for a reason. The article cited was incorrect, the author was just being sarcastic. Dell "dumbed down" their pink laptops the way Apple "dumbed down" their purple Macs. Which is to say they didn't.
And so what about using a PC to track your diet??? Hell, I DO.
Nice way to be condescending. Thanks.
Traitor.
What you have to realize is there is an inherently sexist attitude with dieting. If you are on a diet and use your PC to help you maintain it, that is fine. I agree that it can be an excellent tool for people on diets. However, it is extremely offensive for companies to market items toward women specifically(and not men) by advertising how much weight it could help you lose. It reinforces the shitty idea that if you are a woman, you SHOULD be on a diet because women are SUPPOSED to be thin and not have a big appetite. If it was marketed toward all genders that would be fine and not offensive at all. However, you certainly didn't see Dell marketing that kind of thing toward men...
Since I wrote the article I linked to, I'm going to defend my alleged "inaccuracy."
First off, of course I was being sarcastic. I was blogging for BUST.
Second, yes Della WAS marketed as eBook readers/diet monitors as a way to promote them to women. I have never personally seen a male-centered ad that was focused on dieting. ESPECIALLY technology. And the last two computers I had before switching to Mac were Dells, so my comments about their quality were based on personal experience, sorry I can't link you to that. But you're welcome to buy the two half-dead laptops off me if you want to see for yourself how shitty they are.
And then...was I inaccurate in saying that I find it offensive that lady-focused computer ads too frequently show women wearing outfit that match their computers? Because all you had to do was click through to the Della site to see that. And the picture right there on the page was a parody of a real ad - the text was changed but not the picture, so there's your accuracy right there.
Maybe it was the closing that was so very very inaccurate. Maybe you don't get hit on by geeks in a very nerdy way in tech stores. Maybe you don't get greeted with the assumption that you know nothing until you can prove otherwise.
You completely missed the point of my comment AND my blog post. It isn't necessarily WHAT you use your computer for or what it looks like that is the problem - it is the marketing methods used to allegedly appeal to women and the apparent sacrifice of quality and performance that is made for looks. Colored iMacs looked cool and functioned well. As I said in the blog post, that's not the issue.
They do seem to have added some better-functioning (well, for a Dell) machines since I wrote that post 2 months ago. But the problem still stands - why does something being pretty or cool looking have to be aimed at women? Why is Della necessary - can't we just offer many designs on the same crappy Dells that are always available?
Because Dell's marketing research team told them that Della would help them sell more stuff than they would without. I haven't been to Dell's website in a few months, but I don't remember any boys only restriction on the non-Della site. They're offering Della to reach a certain market segment, they're just as happy when women buy from the normal site. I'm sure they'd be thrilled if men would buy through Della. It's not a grand patriarchal conspiracy, they just want to sell computers. Women's money and men's money are the same green.
However, the Della netbooks were marketed exclusively to women. The only people I know who use netbooks are guys (this is anecdotal evidence, not scientific fact; just an observation). As has already been mentioned, the Della netbooks themselves were advertised as a way to read eBooks and keep track of diets, as though this is all women need computers for, and not ten hour gaming sessions, AutoCAD rendering or running design programs. Those computers are not usually marketed towards women; even the Mac commercials are subtly implying they're for men, or at least "gender neutral," if by "gender neutral," you mean "mostly for men, but we'll let the girls play too (just not mention them)." (The recent video game thread had a similar discussion.) When was the last time you saw an Alienware advertisement that targeted women? That's where the problem lies, not in the mere existence of pink products. (I'm one of the women who buys pink things, when there's an option. There wasn't an option when I needed a computer for graphic/web design.)
When was the last time you saw an Alienware advertisement that targeted women?
Most Alienware ads I've seen involve the computer case on one side, the specifications on the other side, or the computer featured prominently with a new video game.
I don't understand how that can be considered to target male gamers over female without invoking the very same stereotypes which were railed against in this thread.
Do you have any data on the genders of those who buy pink electronics? I haven't analyzed macro-data, but I've sold electronics, and it's not a weak relationship.
I think the issue is that it's a society-imposed identity scheme. A woman who feels insecure about her image and sex appeal can buy a pink product and feel somewhat reassured that she's sending out a signal that will help her be seen as feminine and youthful. This code marginalizes the value of personality, distinction and good taste.
I don't know many women who buy pink stuff, either. That being said, I can appreciate a nice magenta.
I know a lot of women who buy pink electronics. I know more than a few who consider color above anything else. I think it's ridiculous and childish and garish, but that's what they want. Dell, Apple, and Nintendo would be foolish not to cater to those customers, and by doing so they are not making any kind of statement that all women like pink.
(Men on the other hand want black, or big numbers in useless tech specs like megapixels).
What do you mean by useless?
What's the advantage for an amateur photographer without his own computer for having 12 megapixels in a compact camera instead of 10 or 8?
What's the advantage for an amateur photographer without his own computer for having 12 megapixels in a compact camera instead of 10 or 8?
It gets worse: anything over 8 megapixels is likely to make your pictures worse rather than better...
Exactly. In my experience selling electronics in the US and Namibia, women tend to focus on the color (often pink) and men tend to focus on the tech spec numbers, including useless ones they don't understand.
I think the issue is that it's a society-imposed identity scheme. A woman who feels insecure about her image and sex appeal can buy a pink product and feel somewhat reassured that she's sending out a signal that will help her be seen as feminine and youthful. This code marginalizes the value of personality, distinction and good taste.
I don't know many women who buy pink stuff, either. That being said, I can appreciate a nice magenta.
You left out that hipsters like pink things, for the irony factor, of course.
I can't help but think of Della.
I think having technology available in a variety of cool-looking colors is great. The problems are that a) often when they make something pink (or purple, or whatever other "girly" shade) they sacrifice performance for looks and b) that fun colors are mainly marketed at women as accessories. I know lots of people that would like colors, not all are women and not all would like pink.
I'd totally rock a purple Macbook. Maybe I should get one of those hard cases...
Sorry about the double post. Blame the slow connection at work.
I like pink because it's just a damn colour. I'm not super femme, and neither am I a gay man. Depending on the shade, it can be very soothing. I don't want to be bathed in it, but I really like it as an accent colour.
My favourite colour is green, but my favourite combination is brown and pink. Very warm, very soothing.
If only they made brown and pink things. I would buy them.
But no, it's all drenched in shiny pepto bismol.
Same. I'm not a "High Femme" or a gay man. I just love pink. If I could paint my car in pink, I would.
Me, too!
I second that...my roommate makes fun of me all the time. She (and her boyfriend for that matter) frequently describes by half of the room as "drowned in pepto." Which is a really accurate description. I just love pink. And I have no qualms having a pink version of everything.
But I do see the sexism behind marketing pink versions of whatever to women. Advertisers need to understand that there is a big difference between targeting an audience and targeting a stereotype.
I second that...my roommate makes fun of me all the time. She (and her boyfriend for that matter) frequently describes by half of the room as "drowned in pepto." Which is a really accurate description. I just love pink. And I have no qualms having a pink version of everything.
But I do see the sexism behind marketing pink versions of whatever to women. Advertisers need to understand that there is a big difference between targeting an audience and targeting a stereotype.
http://sakurabloom.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_sakura_info&cPath=1&products_id=17
I don't know if you have kids or might have kids in the future, but this is a gorgous pink and brown baby sling...
I like that more things are coming out in non-monochromatic colors. I prefer purple or blue, but I've definitely bought pink electronics when the other options were black or silver.
Ditto. I currently have a pink phone because they were out of red ones, and the only other options were silver and black. I don't mind pink, but I generally like colourful things a lot better than monochromatic ones.
Ditto. I currently have a pink phone because they were out of red ones, and the only other options were silver and black. I don't mind pink, but I generally like colourful things a lot better than monochromatic ones.
Even though I really do like pink, I don't think I'd ever buy a pink laptop, game system, cell phone, etc., personally I prefer black or red. It's insulting that these companies feel like they need to make products "for women" where the only difference is the color. Though maybe we should be glad that's the only difference. Could be worse, the products could be dumbed down so that our "tiny lady minds" don't have to do so much smart people work.
What's maddening is that I'm sure lots of women do actually buy these. Because they're cute, they match their other pink things, or worse - so they can have a game system without emasculating their boyfriends. After all, pink is feminine, and non-threatening; you wonder which came first. Is pink feminine because it's non-threatening, or is it the other way around?
Well, it's better than when they change the color and drop the technical specs to be lower standards and/or make them harder to find (as in the case of the Della website, if I remember correctly).
Why is that maddening? I love pink things; looking around my room, most of what I own is pink, when there's been an option. However, I also know the technical specs of all of my electronics, many of which are cute and (in the case of my DS) pink. I like that they're cute, and that they work just as well (and cost no more than) their non-cute counterparts. Why is that a bad thing? (I know, I've probably been socialized to like pink, but I do now, why should I stop? It's not like I'm telling other women or little girls that they have to like pink, too.)
(And no, my DS is not pink so that I won't emasculate my (non existent) boyfriend. It's pink because I liked it better than the red one.)
Sorry if this is long and vaguely incoherent. I think I'm getting my point across.
The DS is a great example of technology that is available in a bunch of colors without sacrificing performance. The pink is exactly the same machine as the white or black or red one.
Mine happens to be white because it was a gift, purchased used when that was the only available color. I may have chosen something different if I had the option but I really don't care. :)
I love my pink DS. And my pink phone. Hell, I just love pink. I hate that I feel like a traitor to feminism sometimes for simply liking pink, feminine things. :( I know that no one means to make me feel that way, but it seems like there is an assumption that if women buy pink things, it is because they are dumb and fall for sexist advertising. However, it really isn't that way with me. I just really like the color because it is aesthetically pleasing to me. Having pink electronics makes me much happier than if I had black electronics simply because that is what I prefer. And I think that anyone who prefers them, whatever gender they may be, should get them if it makes them happy.
I do agree that the idea that women need something to be pink in order to not be terrified of the Big Bad Machine is insulting, but I find the idea that I'm apparently not allowed to like or buy items that are pink distasteful as well.
I currently don't own a pink game system, but that's partially because everything I've seen in pink is too pastel and not neon enough for my tastes. To be honest, though, one reason I eventually want a pink Xbox controller is because, like you said, it's non-threatening. And then, when I don't suck at a game just because I'm female or I like pink, maybe people will realize how dumb the idea that "pink = feminine = fail at life" is.
"I do agree that the idea that women need something to be pink in order to not be terrified of the Big Bad Machine is insulting,"
Who do you see expressing that idea?
Sorry, I was bringing another sentiment in from reading the comments at the linked post in the OP with Femanon's comment about making products "for women."
"I do agree that the idea that women need something to be pink in order to not be terrified of the Big Bad Machine is insulting,"
Who do you see expressing that idea?
Even though I really do like pink, I don't think I'd ever buy a pink laptop, game system, cell phone, etc., personally I prefer black or red. It's insulting that these companies feel like they need to make products "for women" where the only difference is the color. Though maybe we should be glad that's the only difference. Could be worse, the products could be dumbed down so that our "tiny lady minds" don't have to do so much smart people work.
What's maddening is that I'm sure lots of women do actually buy these. Because they're cute, they match their other pink things, or worse - so they can have a game system without emasculating their boyfriends. After all, pink is feminine, and non-threatening; you wonder which came first. Is pink feminine because it's non-threatening, or is it the other way around?
While I don't like the assumption that all females will be drawn to products that are pink, I also don't like the implication that pink is an immature color, or one that is for "high femmes or gay men"- as if there is something wrong with being femme or a gay man. Feminists who feel they are above traditional femininity are actually playing into a form of misogyny. You claim that many genders like pink, but then assert that only femmes and gay men like pink. So which is it?
Thank you!
I completely and totally agree. Many times, I refrain from commenting because I concur with mostly everything posted on Feministing. However, the "Real Women Don't Like Pink" stereotype irks me as much as much as any other! I consider pink to be my favorite color, and I identify as a full-fledged feminist. I don't think the two are contradictory; I believe that the hypocrisy of the marketing in itself allows for commentary, without direct insult to those who like pink.
:)
This.
I've often had similar thoughts when it comes to topics like the colour pink. The complete rejection of anything traditionally associated with being feminine sometimes feels like a contradiction to feminism to me, even though I fully get it and sometimes agree with the rejection. But sometimes it goes too far and into the realm of misogyny IMO.
I just wanted to thank you for this comment, because the whole "rejecting the feminine" thing has been rolling around in my head for most of the day.
Speaking as a straight male I really like pink...and purple. My windows theme is Lilac, and one of my Facebook skins is pink (I now have several - I did once contact Feministing with a view to making a Feministing facebook skin, but, it would appear there was no interest.).
Not sure about pink (or any other colour) electronics though...I like my electronics to be black - even the grey that seems to get used these days noesn't seem quite right...)
Speaking as a straight male I really like pink...and purple. My windows theme is Lilac, and one of my Facebook skins is pink (I now have several - I did once contact Feministing with a view to making a Feministing facebook skin, but, it would appear there was no interest.).
Not sure about pink (or any other colour) electronics though...I like my electronics to be black - even the grey that seems to get used these days noesn't seem quite right...)
Sorry we never got to you about that! Not that we weren't interested..I think we just didn't understand what it would be for.
What's up with the writing in this entry? Were you purposely writing like a middle-schooler to make some kind of point? If so, am I the only one to have noticed, or just the only one crass enough to say anything about it?
Agreed, Alex.
Also, how is attributing "pink" as the color preference of choice for another demographic group (in your case, high femmes and gay men) any better? And doesn't that attribution play into the notion that pink is a "feminine" color as well?
Yeah, that line was part of the reason I thought this might be some kind of a sendup.
(OTOH, if it's take-your-daughter-to-work day at Feministing or something, it does read like the work of a *bright* middle schooler.)
The implication I got from Samhita's comment is this: "Pink is a stupid color, why would anyone like it, I mean, *I* don't, and I'm smart enough to be allowed to post crap like this on a great website and dampen the overall quality. Anyhoo, only the gays and femme gals I know like pink, so I'm going to conclude that they are the ONLY people who like it!"
Not to fucking mention the preposterous implication that liking pink and liking purple (or pink and any other color) are mutually exclusive tastes.
Also, Alex51324, I agree, the writing on this post is incredibly sloppy and almost nonsensical. Does Feministing do quarterly reviews of its editors and the quality of their posts? Or, of the fruitfulness of the discussion generated by the posts? It seems to me that all this post has done is irk anyone who isn't a feminine woman or a gay man, not inspire great discussion.
Actually, I think this post just irks everyone, as I happen to be a feminine woman sitting in front of a pink Dell laptop.
Actually, I think this post just irks everyone, as I happen to be a feminine woman sitting in front of a pink Dell laptop.
Yes--and Samhita's other entries don't display the same markers of immaturity and sloppy thinking that this one does. If I asked a group of students (I teach first-year college students) to write about this topic for a few minutes, I'd consider this entry a pretty good response--it opens up some topics that we could talk about in class: what do you mean by "many genders"? What's a gender, and how many of them are there in our society? If you see someone carrying a pink laptop (hammer, phone, etc), what impression of that person do you form--in other words, what baggage is attached to the color pink? You suggest that the way pink things are marketed to young girls and the way that pink things are marketed to grown women are different: OK, what are the differences? How and why are those differences important? (Note: I'm not at all convinced that the differences exist, but I'd wait for another student to suggest that possibility.) You mention two categories of people who, in your experience, usually like pink: what do those groups have in common, besides pink? Are there significant differences in the way pink is deployed by these groups? What accounts for those differences?
After that class discussion, I might ask the student to pick one of those questions and explore it in some kind of depth in an out-of-class writing exercise.
A professional writer, I'd expect to get to the exploring-a-question-in-depth stage on her own, before publishing the piece of writing.
This, except more eloquent and with less curse words than I could have written it :). If I may ask, what and where do you teach? I'm starting my Master's degree in Women's Studies in the fall and I'm going to be a T.A. for Women & Film. I'm so excited!!!
Agreed, Alex.
Also, how is attributing "pink" as the color preference of choice for another demographic group (in your case, high femmes and gay men) any better? And doesn't that attribution play into the notion that pink is a "feminine" color as well?
Pink is also seen as an "upper class" color in the family of pastels. So it could also be an issue of security and status. I know several men who have pink products because it looks "fancier."
Really? (Er, that's genuine curiosity, not sarcasm.) D'you have any links to information about pink being security and status, and being fancier? I'm really curious.
Pink is also seen as an "upper class" color in the family of pastels. So it could also be an issue of security and status. I know several men who have pink products because it looks "fancier."
Pink is also seen as an "upper class" color in the family of pastels. So it could also be an issue of security and status. I know several men who have pink products because it looks "fancier."
My absolute favorite color is pink.
I have an MA in Women's and Gender Studies and do not consider the marketing of pink products to women be sexist and/or treating us like children.
The idea that pink is an "upper class" color is not factually based in any way. I like pink because I like pink and I do not think the patriarchy has brainwashed me into liking it.
I think the marketing of pink products to women can be sexist, but it doesn't have to be by default. Implying that women (as a whole) aren't interested in electronics if they're not pink - that's sexist. Implying that only women are interested in pink - also sexist and oppressive. However, sometimes it seems as though the existence of pink products is, in itself, read as sexist.
I have never heard of this "pink = upper class" idea before. What is it? Where does it come from?
really? the fact that the pink are all, and only the pink products are marketed to women? that's not sexist? I have no inherent problem with pink electronics other than it's not my aesthetic. but the way it's marketed? yeah, I do. You may like pink. But making something pink is NOT a substitute for marketing to women.
really? the fact that the pink are all, and only the pink products are marketed to women? that's not sexist? I have no inherent problem with pink electronics other than it's not my aesthetic. but the way it's marketed? yeah, I do. You may like pink. But making something pink is NOT a substitute for marketing to women.
My absolute favorite color is pink.
I have an MA in Women's and Gender Studies and do not consider the marketing of pink products to women be sexist and/or treating us like children.
The idea that pink is an "upper class" color is not factually based in any way. I like pink because I like pink and I do not think the patriarchy has brainwashed me into liking it.
I agree with you Missy... you're all way overthinking this. Colors come and go (remember the late 1990's when everything was orange?) Marketers right now have realized that people like pink; it's pleasing to the eye and reminds of us of fun things from childhood. Don't like it? Don't buy it.
I agree with you Missy... you're all way overthinking this. Colors come and go (remember the late 1990's when everything was orange?) Marketers right now have realized that people like pink; it's pleasing to the eye and reminds of us of fun things from childhood. Don't like it? Don't buy it.
Question: Are there other colors available for these products? If so, I would be less inclined to cry sexism.
Pink is snazzy but Lime Green is also snazzy too!
Cam'ron's dumbass gave pink a bad name for a minute but it has recovered. I'm really liking the darker pink shades right now.
"the only grown folks i know who like pink are high femmes or gay men"
i thought you said that people of all genders like pink?
please stop putting people in boxes. and then implying some sort of childish-ness of high femmes and gay men.
Some thoughts:
I don't think the issue here is about the connotations of the color pink. I think its about assuming that all female consumers are superficial, and care only about appearance and presentation.
Not all pink products are marketed exclusively for women, and not all pink products are by default, sexist.
really? name me a pink product not marketed to women. because that's more of my problem with pink than pink itself. I'd be fine with that option if it were marketed to both men and women. but all the pink ds commercials that I see are marketed only to women.
What do you think would happen with a pink product marketed to men?
I think, as you'll see above, that it will fail, because pink has too obviously been defined as "marketing to women". but the fact that you had to make it hypothetical instead of having a specific example of a pink product marketed to men is my point.
So men wouldn't buy a pink product, but you're bothered that pink products are marketed to women?
So men wouldn't buy a pink product, but you're bothered that pink products are marketed to women?
So men wouldn't buy a pink product, but you're bothered that pink products are marketed to women?
I've already answered your question
I like hot pink, but I hate light pink. That pink playstation makes me want to puke, lol.
I hate how men who like pink are considered "unmanly". It's such a childish way to think.
From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink):
In Western culture, the practice of assigning pink to an individual gender began in the 1920s. From then until the 1940s, pink was considered appropriate for boys because being related to red it was the more masculine and decided color, while blue was considered appropriate for girls because it was the more delicate and dainty color, or related to the Virgin Mary. Since the 1940s, the societal norm apparently inverted so that pink became appropriate for girls and blue appropriate for boys, a practice that has continued into the 21st century.
I'm a straight male and regularly wear pink button down shirts (two different shades) as part of my office attire. One time a female coworker "complimented" me by telling me how I looked good wearing pink, but without looking feminine. I thanked her and told her she looked good wearing pants without looking masculine.
Awesome reply. I think I'll use that reply from now on!
Awesome reply. I think I'll use that reply from now on!
Awesome reply. I think I'll use that reply from now on!
The wall in our office was painted bright purple as an accent. I am a woman and I like purple, thus i fought hard for the color to be used.
I like purple, so what. Someone may like pink, who cares.
We shouldn't state though that girls only buy pink .. altho they should offer all colors...
and market them to everyone.
fat chance that huh?
s
Like others, I am displeased by the notion that "the only grown folks i know who like pink are high femmes or gay men." That's just inaccurate. The people who like pink are the people who find the color aesthetically pleasing. End of story.
I wrote a blog post on this very subject not too long ago, and this is what I had to say about it:
—If a woman doesn't like pink because it is not aesthetically pleasing to her, why can't she just say so? Insulting something because it is "girly" is essentially implying that feminine (and female) things are undesirable. (Personally, I think there was an element of insult in the "high femmes or gay men" comment.)
—My concern with the women that insist on maligning pink is that, someday, they may have daughters. And if they send the message that pink is bad because pink is for girls, isn't there a chance that their daughters will pick up on the implication that girls are bad?
I agree completely that the problem is that the color is assigned a gender at all. I LOVE pink. I have been absolutely obsessed with the color since I was about 2, and it's never ever changed. My mom, who went to college in the 60's, never decked my room in pink and in all of my baby pictures I am rarely if ever wearing the color. She was convinced it was phase I would grow out of, but never did.
I actually was teased pretty badly throughout middle school for my affinity to the color and from about 12 to 15 I stopped wearing it/buying products in it altogether. At about 15/16 I realized that the damn color just made me happy and everyone else could go to hell if they didn't like it.
From a very young age I knew what I liked and asserted that, despite being told that it was too "girly." As you said LindseyLou, when this was said to me it did indeed give me the impression that being a girl, that being MYSELF was bad.
Straight men are also not 'allowed' to like pink, or express their like for it, since it is associated with "high femmes and gay men." (Which is also supposed to be a bad thing.) So what I think is sexist is that men (AND women) aren't allowed to feel comfortable buying products in this color - and that they don't sell ENOUGH "grown up" products in pink since it's considered to be immature and girly (the two are apparently synonymous) and therefore undesirable.
Women who like pink are told that they shouldn't because of this very reason - as I was. Saying this is effectively saying that we should strive to be less feminine, or at least appear less feminine. It's the same thing as the use of "you guys" to describe a group a people male or female. If a group has even one male in it they are automatically referred to as "you guys" as opposed to "you girls" to acknowledge the man present, but dismiss the presence of the women. I don't want my sex to be dismissed in an attempt to blend in with men - I want to be a woman, and on equal standing with men AS a woman.
Not to mention that I would be pretty depressed if they stopped selling the few products for adults that they DO make in pink. Do you know how hard it is to find pink bedding that's not made for children or preteens? Pretty damn hard.
It strikes me that we're castigating marketers for marketing to women--as opposed to marketing to feminists. That's what the underlying beef is, that even though Dell's strategy may appear to a number of women, is not a feminist marketing strategy...Well a minority of women are feminists & I think expecting a public corporation to ignore its broader market is unrealistic...at least until a lot more women are feminists.
I remember writing a paper on video game advertisements for products aimed at women back in the day. One of the ads I looked at was for a pink GBASP, which if memory serves had three of them lined up and opened, clearly positioned to resemble make-up compacts. Nothing about actually playing games. It's just cute and girly and pretty and that's what we like, right? \o/
For my part, pink is one of my favorite colors, and I have been wanting that pink PS2 for years. I just wish the companies that advertised them would actually focus on their functionality as a product rather than what a lovely fashion accessory they make.
Remember when all cell phones were black? Then someone decided to make one pink. It sold. A lot. Then pink laptops and mp3's players came out. Then pink reemerged as a color for purses, and shoes. Those also made some sense.
Now we are at a time when some marketing departments add the color pink to every single product they think of. (Pink vacuum cleaners? Really? who accesorizes their vacuum cleaner? Can't it just be two dollars cheaper?) Now it's reached the silly bizarre stage.
It'll be interesting to see if they come out with pink flooring, pink walls, pink houses, refrigerators, washing machines etc.
as a grown woman who admittedly owns a pink hello kitty toaster (i would have preferred it in red, had that been an option), i'm in no place to criticize anyone for buying pink or girly stuff.
what i object to, as i did with della, is reinforcing the idea that women (and women only) only care about aesthetics (pink and sparkly!) and not so much funtionality in electronics, or that at least the functions we want are TEH SILLY GIRLY ONEZ like dieting and blogging about our periods or whatever it is that ad agencies think we spend all day doing. THAT is the problem, not the color pink itself.
I found out the other day from a Libyan friend that the pink is for girls/blue is for boys paradigm is also followed in his country. I don't know if this is universal. It would be interesting to find out which countries and ethnic groups follow the same practice. Does it hold true in Papua New Guinea, for example? :-)
For the rest of my comments go to http://www.femagination.com/2009/05/pink-is-for-girls/
I found out the other day from a Libyan friend that the pink is for girls/blue is for boys paradigm is also followed in his country. I don't know if this is universal. It would be interesting to find out which countries and ethnic groups follow the same practice. Does it hold true in Papua New Guinea, for example? :-)
Sorry about the duplication-I didn't think that it "took" the first time.
My phone is pink, my DS is "rose" and my video camera is magenta.
I used to wholly reject pink because it was a girl color and I resented being assigned a color based on my genitals. But as an adult, I finally allowed myself to open up to pink. I like bold colors. I like shiny colors. I can't wear red because it doesn't go with my skin, but I can wear pink. It's fun and interesting. Normally I wear black black black and carry black black black. If I have something pink, it POPS. I like the aesthetics of ... that.
I would never pay more for a pink object, but ... I would definitely buy a pink object. If I was going to buy it anyway. Certainly better than ORANGE. (I hate orange. My video camera came in white, orangey-gold, and magenta. I hate white and I hate orange. So ...)
I do agree that the gendering of colors is a problem and pushing color gendering is a problem. I had an issue last week when I asked some 4-year-old kids to color a female figure's clothing and avoided the color pink. In fact, I had them color the skirt blue. They FREAKED OUT (the four boys in the class, that is--the two girls were silent) and kept insisting blue was a BOY'S color and girls can't wear a BOY color. (I was purposefully avoiding typically gendered clothing colors.)
But hands off my pink electronics, okay? Okay.
Hot pink objects are very easy to find - like my iPod nano.
Pink tennis balls are becoming more popular because of this (the yellowy-green ones can be a bastard to find in grass).
Personally, I buy pink things because it was socially unacceptable for me to buy, own or wear pink things when I was presenting as male.
Now that I'm presenting as female, I guess I'm making up for lost time - I can finally utilise the colour pink without becoming a social outcast amongst my male peers.
I sometimes find myself inordinately annoyed by the lack of a pink colour choice in a product range that offers several colours.
- Proud owner of a Breast Cancer Foundation keyboard and mouse (in hot pink).
What's wrong with all of you? Liking pink things means that you are infantile. It's true. MRAs say it. And they never lie. :)
I love pink electronics. I don't know why since I don't really like pink and I don't wear it. But it is feminine and it makes an otherwise boring and functional item fun. Or society has programmed me into liking it. One or the other.
What's wrong with all of you? Liking pink things means that you are infantile. It's true. MRAs say it. And they never lie. :)
I love pink electronics. I don't know why since I don't really like pink and I don't wear it. But it is feminine and it makes an otherwise boring and functional item fun. Or society has programmed me into liking it. One or the other.
What's wrong with all of you? Liking pink things means that you are infantile. It's true. MRAs say it. And they never lie. :)
I love pink electronics. I don't know why since I don't really like pink and I don't wear it. But it is feminine and it makes an otherwise boring and functional item fun. Or society has programmed me into liking it. One or the other.
Sorry for the same 3 posts. I wish I could delete 2 of them. I bet I could if I had a pink laptop.
Hmmm, got to disagree with you, Samhita, on the men who like pink. I know more straight men who wear pink and purple shirts and ties; most of them wear it because they like to have variety in their otherwise drab business wear, much like some of the gentlemen who have already posted on this topic. While pink is traditionally been a color associated with "newborn baby girl", I think men are taking the pink color back, and all the power to them for constructively rebelling against traditional gender roles!
Hmmm, got to disagree with you, Samhita, on the men who like pink. I know more straight men who wear pink and purple shirts and ties; most of them wear it because they like to have variety in their otherwise drab business wear, much like some of the gentlemen who have already posted on this topic. While pink is traditionally been a color associated with "newborn baby girl", I think men are taking the pink color back, and all the power to them for constructively rebelling against traditional gender roles!
all products should be marketed to all people period. I personally would have loved to have a laptop in pink. Pink is and has always been one of my favorite colors. I love it, and I've been trying to find a different color for a hardcase as well. But to market the product only to women? that's just wrong. One of my friends does volunteer work for breast cancer research and he has a pink laptop in order to promote the cause, and frankly because I think he really does like the color pink. There is nothing wrong, it is just a color so why does it have to marketed towards women exclusively?
"Personally, I have never been a fan of pink, my favorite color is purple. The only grown folks I know that like pink are high femmes or gay men, but I guess that is just me."
Samhita... please stop using every one of your posts to point out that everyone YOU know does things differently from what you THINK the rest of the world does.
So I'm sitting at the front desk of my office and who walks through the door? My totally NOT high femme or gay male co-worker wearing a bright pink button down shirt. It looks awesome on him and it's one of his favorites. He also has a lighter pink shirt that he wears often.
I also wear pink a lot and own many pink things and I'm neither high femme or gay either. Who knew?!
To echo others, the main consumer of pink goods in our household is the bourbon-drinking, steak-grilling, straight male. He's why we have a pink Kitchen Aid mixer and blender. When we met, he had a pink cell phone. He just loves pink, totally un-ironically and un-condescendingly.
I say yeah to pink products, as long as their marketed to all genders.
But sometimes they're not marketed to all genders. Like a girl's pink diary that opens with a secret code or something like that. My son really wanted one, but it was pink and glittery or covered in flowers. At 8, he didn't want something like that. But he really wanted it. And there was no boy equivalent.
Just like a little girl's cupcake maker from Girl Gourmet. My son would have liked it but he think's it's only for girls. You'd think people would get a little smarter and realize that boys would buy their products too if they made them a little more generic.
Men choosing pink is different. Boys aren't able to get over the social stigma, as self-confident men are.
"My son really wanted one, but it was pink and glittery or covered in flowers. At 8, he didn't want something like that. But he really wanted it"
He did but didn't but did. Huh?
He wanted an electronic diary that opened with a code or by your voice. He thought it was cool. But he was self conscious because it was pink. But I bought it anyway.
But he doesn't want me to buy him the cupcake maker although he really does want it, since he wants to be a cook (and cab driver and ghost hunter). Why is it called "Girl Gourmet"???
Ooooh, I see. It's hard to explain to a kid that that doesn't have to be true, when it says it right on the side of the package.
Personally I avoid pink products like the plauge. I always have, even when i was a five year old little girly girl. I never wanted to be the typical girl. I like purple and green. I love them equally, and wish more things came in a purple and green combo. But since they don't, i paint most of my electronics or cover them in stickers. The only pink thing i have is my cell phone, and that's because it was free. And it's not really pink, it more of a deep dusty rose...
The intentions behind the "pink" marketing are not feminist at all, which is exactly why it would create mixed feelings for a feminist who actually does find pink aesthetically pleasing...i love pink and all its variations but i admit some guilty feelings because i know that im just buying a product which is financing a non feminist intention. The fact that this post comes up here just creates more stereotyping: Hate the pink that's being marketed because otherwise you're not a feminist...not cool.
Hmm. I too love purple. Is purple the most loved color by feminists? Even the feministing logo is purple. Weird. Seriously, though, this has me thinking about how my ex boyfriend really really wanted to purchase a pink shirt and wear it to work because he thinks he looks good in pink (it was pastel) but I convinced him not to because of the trend a few years ago (and maybe still) of obnoxious preppy frat guys wearing pink. Now I am feeling kind of guilty because I want to transcend gender norms but sort of played into this one. As it is, I sometimes do not admit I like pink because I am afraid the crowd I hang out with would think me silly and immature and too "feminine" for liking it. This is indicative of a form of sexism perhaps. A lot of women I know would not purchase things pink for this reason. So, really, I think there is a stigma associated with pink for women also.
Tell me if one of these is false:
1. There are some women, with money, who base their purchasing decisions partly on fashion (see comments on this thread).
2. Dell has a legitimate interest in offering these women the electronics they want, in return for the money Dell wants, instead of boycotting them as a market.
3. Dell is thrilled when a woman buys a laptop from the standard, non-"Della" site, and does nothing to discourage women from doing so.
But I doubt that anyone is going to buy a computer just because it's pink. They are looking for a laptop and, all things being equal, some choose the pink one. They'd still buy it if it were black.
I've seen other things, like a small toolset marketed to women that was in pink, and I did consider getting it. Then I realized I don't use tools and anyway, my husband has full-sized ones. But I did like it. Marketing things in pink that women might not actually want or need will get suckers like me to buy them. That's fine. It's our choice to buy them or not.
Just as long as they don't offer everything in pink. I would guess most businesswomen would not want a pink laptop to bring to the office.
Your first assumption is, unfortunately, mistaken. I've had women beg me to find a pink model. That's all they cared about. That obviously doesn't include all women, nor does Dell or any other marketer that I'm aware of try to keep women from buying black or silver or gunmetal or any other color.
I believe the problem is using the color pink as a social marker for "something specially for women." I certainly do not think the color pink ought to be a strengthener of gender binary in marketing, yet it is often used that way. I am a twenty-year-old woman and do not like pink much; I have many friends of various ages who do (and not only female friends), and I see no problem with it.
The problem I see is when stereotypes are conflated with the pink color and then the color is used as an index of those stereotypical ideas. For instance, the scrabble board 'for girls' that was advertised (and, I believe, posted about here several weeks or months ago) - it was bright pink as opposed to the Scrabble boards that had previously been advertised, and rather than the various words exemplified on Scrabble boxes in the past, it had "FASHION" and such things - things which read to me as suggestions that women could not 'handle real Scrabble' or perhaps would prefer a word game that catered to Specifically Female Interests or the like. And that I am extremely insulted by.
Or the Ouija Board for girls (BitchPhd posted an excellent post on this when it was advertised, if I recall correctly), which was also put in pink packaging as opposed to the previous packaging as an icon for 'specially for girls and women' - and then it included /suggested questions/ along the lines of - I believe it was 'should I ask him to the prom?' or the like, as if girls and women, unlike boys and men or any gender besides (...I am pretty sure ouija boards without pink packaging have generally been used more often by girls than boys regardless) are not 'smart' enough to come up with their own questions and need superficial suggestions involving romance. In these cases, I do think pink is being used as an index for harmful stereotypes about women and girls - and I believe this index is being capitalized on, and I can perfectly understand having a problem with that - I do.
The "Della" I find insulting as well - I do not see anything about "Dell" that is explicitly FOR MEN and do not see why an 'a' is required to end the name for it to be, say, more appropriate for or marketable to women. I think this falls along the same lines - "feminizing" to emphasize harmful stereotype is very different from being neutral about a product - marketing a product to /people/ who are interested in it, /especially/ if the product itself has nothing specifically to do with gender or sex.
I see nothing wrong at all with the color pink besides my own personal dislike for many shades of it. But like jeana refers to, the color carries some social stigma in society - and I think companies heavily underline it in ways that make me very angry.
In the pictures the OP shows, I read them as having that same index of harmful stereotypes (somewhat like 'girls can't play video games but maybe pink will trick them into trying', 'girls need pink technology'...) - and I would be closer to be willing to buy such things (if I liked the color) if they weren't advertised in a society where some companies seem to believe that females should have a 'special', 'easier', bright pink! version of a game that has been played for many, many years by all genders. For one example of many, of course. I think Morgan's comment that "advertisers need to understand the difference between targeting an audience and targeting a stereotype" is exactly it.