This is a major bugbear of mine! I really resent the way that Western culture puts increasing pressure on women to remove bodily hair. While I think it's totally fine to depilate whichever parts of your body you wish, more and more it is becoming a requirement, not a choice. I'm not sure I even agree with Professor Foxy's comment about some trimming being good sex etiquette - that makes it sound so universal, when actually it should be a decision for the individual and their partner(s). Personally I find pubic hair one of the erotic aspects of sex (this is, after all, part of its purpose - to signal sexual maturity and thus arouse others) and I don't like the prickliness of trimmed hair on my partners.

So, to the original poster - you are not weird or alone! There are plenty of us out there with our pubes instact, and if you like yours that way, then you shouldn't feel like an oddity.

Yay! Body hair! I stopped shaving when I barely even had anything to shave. My mom pressured me A LOT to shave. I have really sensitive skin so I pretty much only shaved my pubic hair once before I decided it was absolutely not for me. Now that I've come out as a trans guy it's a whole lot more acceptable for me to be hairy. I still think though that shaving anything is totally up to the individual. I think society's phobia of body hair, especially on women, is really weird, it's like being grossed out because people have ears. It's just part of the body. (Haha can't say I like getting any kind of hair in my mouth though.)

"Shaving is not itchy for everyone"
On the contrary, NOT shaving/waxing is itchy for me personally. I've known others that say the same. It isn't just stubble that causes problems either. I've been doing some sort of maintenance on it since it first started showing up in any significant quantity. I thought I was a weirdo for removing it at all for a good long while.

I don't shave my pubic hair, and I never have (I am 30). I have shaved my bikini line in the past, and even his caused terrible razor burn to the point where I was constantly scratching myself (very attractive!), so I don't even do this any more!

I do, however, trim it a bit (with a beard trimmer). I find that this keeps it from getting too bushy. However I only started doing this a few years ago; before then the subject never crossed my mind and my partners at the time *never* complained about it. It just wasn't an issue.

The squeamishness about female pubes is a recent phenomenon, and men/boys complain about it because they have learned (undoubtedly through porn) that pubes are disgusting and that attractive, fuckable women don't have them. Strange how an aversion to something can be invented by porn and the media, whereas it wasn't a problem before.

I feel that there is a lot of pressure to remove pubes, and I have succumbed to it to the extent that I trim... having said that though, my partner says that he wouldn't care how long it got! So I'm not entirely sure why I do it.

As far as oral sex is concerned, excuse me for being graphic but the most sensitive bits being licked are hair-free anyway, so the amount of hair one gets in ones mouth is minimal in any case (I say this as a bi woman who has performed and received!).

It is much more important (when having sex and generally) to be comfortable down there, and lets face it, razor burn on ones delicate parts is very nasty indeed. Plus, like you say, you are a woman, not a little girl. I also feel very uncomfortable at this idea that a woman has to look prepubescent to be sexy.

Any partner worth his or her salt is not going to insist you remove your pubes, for whatever reason. If they have a problem, I would, as you suggest, 'flip' them. :o)

"because they have learned (undoubtedly through porn) that pubes are disgusting and that attractive, fuckable women don't have them."

On the flipside it is totally okay for them to be hairy crotched.

(Which, of course, it is. I was just pointing out the double standard. My preference may differ but it is certainly within their right to opt out of manscaping)

Actually, Prof. Foxy, pubic hair is not for a cushion during sex, it's for a) a visual marker of sexual maturity, and b) a trap for pheromones to increase an individual's scent and attract mates. Otherwise we wouldn't have similar hair at the armpits--they don't need to be cushioned during sex!

Questioner, I also only trim these days, and I have no trouble finding partners who don't expect baldness "down there". I think the porn industry popularized hairlessness for several reasons--to get clearer shots of genitals on film and to further emphasize visual difference between female bodies and male bodies, among others.

Also, agreed with Earthling above--this is a very recent phenomenon. Abundant pubes were considered a desirable sign of female sexual prowess in Victorian times, so much so that some prostitutes wore pubic wigs, called "merkins" to enhance their bush!

I've read quite a bit on the argument of whether or not to shave and I've rarely ever heard much about women who like to shave for personal enjoyment, so I'll share my two cents. I shave only rarely because it's kind of difficult, but when I do it's not just for my partner's benefit. This may be tmi, but I actually just really like to be able to see my vulva without it being covered by hair. It's really beautiful and I love masturbating in front of a mirror and being able to clearly see myself.

So yeah, that's just my two cents. There are legitimate reasons why people may like to shave (or wax, whatever), but there are also tons of reasons why people may want to refrain too. If you don't like it and feel pressured by a partner to shave you may want to rethink whether you really want to be with a person who wants you to do something with your body that you dislike. I know I wouldn't want to be with someone like that.

Personally, I shave my labia to avoid my partners getting hair in their mouths. But I like to have hair on my mons, it kinda creeps me out to look like a prepubescent girl 'down there.' I also perfer pubic hair on guys- since I like my men to look like *men.*

Its interesting the different reactions I get for having even trimmed hair. Most don't care, but I had one guy refuse to give me oral, even with my labia shaven! (He was all shaved, so at least he didn't have a double standard...)

That's alright, that's one of the reasons I'm non-monogamous, I can get it elsewhere!

I'm surprised by this feeling that "everyone shaves". I haven't talked about this with my friends much but when I have the only one who felt she should try to shave was one who had been with a guy who shaved. The only people I know without hair there are family members who have the money to permanantly remove it. They cite "hygiene reasons" and do care more about hygiene in other areas of life too.

OT: Can someone write an article about this, please? Thanks.

http://www.badscience.net/2009/07/asking-for-it/

Gosh, I don't even trim. My pubic hair is light and there isn't a lot of it, but I don't even mind if my partners (other women) don't trim at all, regardless of how bushy it gets. Am I alone?

I feel like the whole fully shaved vagina requirement is pretty new and a direct result of increasing amounts of porn consumption, but I don't really have any proof of that. Anyway, I'm in the same boat as the OP. My skin is too sensitive to remove all of my hair comfortably,(itchiness) and I find that when I have tried, I become way more susceptible to yeast infections and Urinary Tract infections. However, I also find the same is true if I let it go wild and don't do some maintenance. Besides that, I'm sorry but I don't like the way a fully shaved vag looks. I feel like I'm 12 years old again, and find that extremely un-sexy. I know a lot of women who prefer it and don't have the same skin issues that I do, and that's fine for them, but I'm disturbed by the growing amount of young men who seem to expect a fully shaved vagina. It should be a choice, and a "womanly" appearance shouldn't be a turn off.

I find this a very timely post, especially since I was contemplating posting one of my columns on the very topic (maybe I still will...). Glad to know I'm not the only one out there who is somewhat confused by this trend to take grooming to new heights (or lows). It's one thing to trim the 'playstation', if you will, but quite another to remove all evidence of sexual maturity...

Every time someone brings up the topic of shaving pubic hair, I think back to a conversation I was part of (as a listener, really) in eighth grade.

The guys my female friend and I always hung out with started talking about a girl who didn't shave 'down there' and they were laughing about it. I felt really awkward, because I was thirteen and I didn't, so was I completely weird?
I tried shaving my sophomore year because my boyfriend was surprised I didn't, too.
After that, I never did it again. It hurt, was way time consuming, and made me feel like a fool.

Now, when I hear guys talking about 'girls who don't shave' being weird or social lepers or whatever, I ask them if they shave. When they laugh and say 'of course not!' (because they usually do), I say, 'Then why the hell should I?'

I've never shaved more than my bikini line - with resulted, invariably, in itchiness and ingrown hairs that I'd pray would go unnoticed. I'd trim really close on my labia and leave the triangle in front only very slightly trimmed. I would feel like a little girl without the triangle. The triangle is sacred. And I've never gotten one of those 'compulsory' Brazilian waxes because oh holy HELL am I not having hundreds of hairs ripped off my twat at once.

I am speaking in the past tense because I haven't shaved or trimmed at all in years; this is because I haven't had a sex partner in years. I know a lot of women say they shave/trim/wax 'for themselves,' but I certainly didn't. I didn't trim until a man told me that most women did. I told him to fuck off and never saw him again, but then I started noticing women's magazines, waxing salons, and women posting on advice sites talking about or asking about whether or not it was now normative to trim or shave. And these days, it seems it is. As far as my sex life goes, I could tell that first dude to fuck off (that was in the mid-90s - I told him he must be watching too much porn), then by the late 90s, trimming seemed to be the norm, then past the year 2000, it seemed like total hair removal was 'required.'

It makes me want to scream, but it also gives me pause. Hair removal for aesthetics is one thing, but there is now an implication that not removing hair is unhygienic. I can deal with not entirely lining up with beauty standards, but being considered dirty is a much stronger kind of social pressure. So I'm sure if I ever become sexually active again, I will go to back to trimming at the very least.

It does seem like ever more extensive body hair removal is being demanded by the patriarchal shitstorm evey year. One of my bosses had her forearms waxed every month. Forearms! Fucking forearms!

It's getting ridiculous.

Realizing that the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data,' none of the guys I've talked to about this have said they liked trimmed/shaved pubic hair for the prepubescent look. Instead the responses appear to fall into two categories:

1) It's a turn on to be able to "see what's going on"
2) Don't like the feeling of flossing when going down on their partner

To be fair, this select group of friends have no problems trimming/shaving themselves and are have been shaving breads/mustaches for some time in deference to their partners' preferences (one of the group doesn't shave at his partner's request).

When I have a partner I ask her what she prefers me to do, and tell her what my preferences are. If she tells me "love my bush or get out" then I'll probably be getting out, because I prefer partners who are willing to meet me halfway and dictums don't really communicate that. I think it's perfectly within everyone's right to have a preference for themselves and their partners. Sometimes those preferences are in alignment, sometimes they can be made to align through compromise, and sometimes it's just not clicking. How is that different than anything else?

Oh, btw, if you watch any porn produced in, say, the last decade you'll see that a lot of guys will shave their balls and trim if not shave the rest. While it's not as near-universal as for women, it is more of the norm for men now as well. And not every actress shaves completely, many will leave something (designed or not) on the mons. As someone else mentioned, it's really about the camera visuals more than anything else.

PS To the girl shaving her vagina - ouch! How'd you get the razor in there?
PPS Pubic hair is not the only evidence of sexual maturity. I hope your partner has figured out you're not eleven before he's got you out of your knickers.

As much as people claim that shaving is the norm and that men are disgusted by pubic hair, in my experiences I haven't run into an man that's actually disgusted by pubic hair and that has asked me to do anything about it and I am 22, the men I've been with are the same age range. I think most guys get that real girls are not fake blonde, waxed body, fake boobie porno stars.

Personally, I trim and shave a little bit, but by no means am bald. I've been trimming since I was young just because it makes me feel cleaner and I can see what is going on down there. I'm not about to shell out $50 for a full on wax job down there. It just seems frivolous and I've got bills to pay. I've never run into a guy that completely shaves, but they do a bit of trimming for whatever hygienic reasons. I wouldn't want to be with a guy that shaved because it puts too much pressure on me anyway and says to me that he's a little bit too preoccupied with his appearance.

From talking to my lady friends, none of them completely shave and very few of the men they've dated have had any issues with pubic hair. The few that have seemed to prioritize looks over personality and compatibility anyway.

Then, again, I may be hanging out with too many hippies who go for the au-natural look so maybe they don't represent what the rest of young people are doing.

OP, I have the same trouble you do. I have tried shaving many times, and it was itchy. I tried to use some sort of NAIR product for the bikini area, and it didn't leave a smooth finish. Now I trim and shave a little around the edges so it doesn't poke out my bathing suit/underwear. I have talked about it with my boyfriend (who was pretty much my first sexual partner) because at first I was insecure about the hair. He said he didn't much mind as long as it wasn't too much of a jungle. Any partner should be understanding of your desire not to go through pain and itching? Anyone who would ask you to shave anyway sounds like a jerk to me.

You are not alone, OP.

I started shaving some about 7 years ago, leaving the mons alone, and tried a few times the fully shaved look, but didn't like it. I like having some pubic hair. I don't think it is entirely thought of prepubescent, not in a "wow, that's a sexy crotch you have, looks about 11 years old!" way, but I think it is kind of unavoidable that pubes and pit hair are part of growing up. I do feel kind of like it isn't desirable, although I knew quite a few girls that had a few pubes (racing stripe or triangle) when I stripping, I haven't had one female partner that kept anyway (out of 6 or so).

For more anecdota, one of the other docs my mother works with was driving a gaggle of boys to some sports game. Ages are like, 7-10years old. They're talking about what kind of wife they'd want. Altogether innocent set of ideals, until one pipes up: "I don't want a wife that has hair on her vagina."
Said doc almost wrecked the car.
Now, hilarious, but also kind of indicative to me at how pervasive the "pubes are icky on girls" thing has trickled down in the last ten years.

Earlier this year, I spoke with Nick Karras - who had created a photobook of women's vulvas pictured artistically, made to look very non-sexual and beautiful. (To see it, search for "Petals Nick Karras" - I don't want to offend anyone by leaving a link). Anyway, what I found fascinating is that EVERY single photo showed a hairless crotch.

I asked Nick about this, and his response was that he had not instructed the women in any way. He said they all simply chose to do it of their own accord. I have thought on this quite a bit, and I have a theory about it: most women were probably shown a few of the other vulva models before agreeing to their own shoot. Faced with the fact that the other women were clean-shaven, even those who typically avoided the itchy ravor burn decided to go under the knife before their own photo shoot.

I'd even be tempted to take this one step further - and say that in general a good percentage of women are shaving down below because they believe it is what other women do. They are trying to fit the standard of beauty as it has been conveyed to them, regardless of their comforts and without a lot of deep contemplation of the issue.

http://twitter.com/Create_change

For me, my pubic hair is really important to my sexuality... just having them touched/played with is really arousing.

I'm only 17 and havent been in any sort of relationship, and I don't shave or remove any of my body hair (except for the 'tache xD). Admittedly I trim my armpit and pubic hair a little, but I also have hair on my legs and arms. I don't shave because I don't want to and I do feel comfortable in a body with hair on it, but I really feel like I'm gonna be in for some crap when people find out or if I ever find myself in somesort of relationship. I mean, it's so expected (definitely the shaving of the legs issue) so I'm going to have to tell them and talk about. And I really don't feel confident it will ever go down well =/

On the notion of this being a "recent" concept:

(Note: this is not a statement of preference on my part)

Shaving the pubic region has been in and out of vogue in almost all cultures at some point.

Egyptians have a recorded history going back to pre-Pharoic times, Greeks picked it up, Romans liked to copy the Greeks and did it, Islam has had it in their culture, crusaders picked up the habit and brought it back to Europe, Asian cultures also have depicted this for thousands of years, and so on.

Regarding porn: the reason porn stars (both male and female) shave is for ease of filming. It's fairly hard to film penetration as-is, and pubic hair makes it harder to see. That doesn't mean it didn't influence some people's perceptions of beauty, but it's still interesting to know why nearly all porn stars shave.

This topic always fucking pisses me off.
I have a hormonal disorder and so I grow A LOT of hair everywhere, similar to the amount that guys grow.
If I could go without shaving my legs, arms, armpits and vulva I would, but I would probably be crucified by every person I ever come across.

I onced asked my boyfriend what he likes me to do with my pubic hair. He said bald, with a little triangle on the mons. That is so much work, so much more work than even leaving it bald, because you have to worry about symmetry, shape, etc.

I for one, love pubic hair on guys. I think it's really sexy. I just wish that appreciation was reciprocated.

And I want to punch peoples faces when they talk about it being for "hygiene" reasons. Fuck off, my vulva isn't fucking dirty.

I'm a bit skeptical on the (often male) insistence that shaving makes going down on a woman more pleasant. Trimming, sure, but I feel like the whining for total hairlessness is just that. Having gone down on both women and men, I just don't think that there's any problem provided it's trimmed back for easy access.

People are free to like what they like, but eh, I feel like wanting a woman to be bare is part of the "vaginas are gross" or "hair is dirty" concept that our culture buys into.

I just lump pubic hair in with all other body hair, and file them under "do whatever you fucking well feel like." My personal experience, which does not and should not dictate anyone else's but should just be one of many stories, is as follows: I never did anything to my pubic hair until around age 19. Then I trimmed some of it, very unartistically, because it kept getting caught in the adhesive backs of sanitary pads and hurting like hell. When I started dating my current husband (I'm monogamous and he's the only partner I've had in my lifetime- again, my choice only and not necessarily applicable to anyone else) we occasionally played with trimming, shaving, and shaping as part of our sex play. He always reciprocated and would have me shave him if he shaved me. And I *always* needed his help to get the labia majora, I have absolutely no idea how anyone reaches to shave theirs on their own. Most of the time, shaving is annoying and unnecessary, and I just trim when my hair starts getting caught in the elastic of my underwear or something. Likewise, I only shave my armpits and my legs when I damn well feel like it, which isn't very often.

I haven't shaved "down there" for years (I'm 21 years old), but I still feel self conscious about it. Sometimes I feel like I'm abnormally hairy for a woman, but I'm not really sure if I am. My hair comes in dark and thick on my legs, armpits, and pubic area. I know I shouldn't feel this way, but sometimes all that pubic hair makes me feel...dirty maybe? Unattractive? I put on underwear sometimes and I think *This would look so much better on me if I didn't have hair growing off to the sides of my underwear.* I know my boyfriend won't mind when we get married (both abstaining just to clarify).

I used to shave when I wore bathing suits, but because I don't want to shave my pubic hair, I don't want to wear bikinis anymore. It's just a huge hassle and I don't feel like razor burn and freaking out if I missed a spot is worth wearing a bikini anymore. Even "boy shorts" bottoms are not enough to cover the hair I have. I've been looking at suits online and I really like these http://www.ohanaswimwear.com/index.php because they have longer shorts and tops that will cover me (and not make me paranoid about a bikini top flying off), and I like the way they look. Some of the tops even have short sleeves so I wouldn't feel the need to shave my armpits. So all I'd be shavin' is my legs! That sounds wonderful to me.

I have shaved entirely years before I was sexually active. I remember doing it initially because I was wearing a white swimsuit one day and looked down and realized you could totally see my jet black pubic hair through it. That was about 8 years ago, and I have just kept it shaved ever since. I can do it really quick, and I don't experience itchiness unless it I let it grow for like a week. My current bf couldn't care less either way. He is pretty hairy himself, so it would be a little hypocritical to judge me. I guess I don't have a white swimsuit anymore, so maybe I am not totally opposed to growing it back...

For those who cite removal of pubic hair as a recent, modern, Western phenomenon--Middle Eastern and Indian cultures have been doing it for thousands of years (because they though any sort of body hair was unhygienic). Women in these parts of the world shaped their eyebrows, waxed their armpits, and removed all pubic hair while European women still had unibrows and hairy legs.

I had to have everything shaved once as part of an operation. It itched horribly and I ended up with razor rash, sebaceous cysts, and boils.

Never again.

Ugh.

This is such a frustrating issue. I don't understand why some men feel entitled to try to make a woman feel like her physical appeal hinges on her shaving habits. When I was 17, I dated a guy who pressured me to shave my labia completely. I'm 20 now, and dating a guy who is very turned on by pubic hair. He stated a preference early in our relationship, but he is a sweetheart and always emphasized that he would rather I do what makes me comfortable.

I continued shaving until about a month ago, when my gynecologist told me she generally discourages her patients from doing so. I figured it was time to try and let go of the baggage from that high school relationship and in addition make my boyfriend happy. It has been so, so difficult. It helps when my boyfriend lets me know he finds it sexy, but there is still some voice inside of me telling me it's weird and wrong, although I would never express that opinion about pubic hair in general. I consider myself a confident woman; having issues with this one little thing seems ridiculous.

And I'm tired of people saying "ugh, it looks like a woman is a prepubescent girl when she shaves." Dude, I have curtains. I am fully formed. I still look like a woman even though I don't have hair there anymore.

And my choice to shave was purely practical - I wasn't even aware that it was "expected" of women these days when I did it. I have a bladder disorder that causes a little incontinence, so I smell like pee sometimes. I smelled a lot more like pee when the urine stayed in my pubic hair all day. I tried trimming first, and I liked being able to see my genitalia. So I started shaving. It itched like the devil for a week, but then my skin adjusted, and now I do it pretty regularly. All for me. I don't smell nearly as bad anymore, and as I said above, I like being able to see myself now that I'm not hiding behind a thatch of pubic hair.

I don't know - a little trimming may be common courtesy if expecting cunnilingus, but I'm not sure. I need to get out more.

So dude, stop putting women down whether they want to shave or not. We all have our reasons.

And for the record, I shave my legs and underarms AND head. I LIKE the hairless look. Period.

I am a pretty heterosexual male who has been sexually active for 16 years with several partners in the past, and I have never been with a woman with no pubic hair. That should take care of one issue: It is NOT "the normal thing to do". I can also assure you, that it is not a "turn-off" - not for me, or for any straight men, that I know. Of course it might be for some who have a fetish, but it is really-really not something you ought to worry about being a general thing. In fact it seems a little strange to me... I mean, you're a woman not a pre-puberty girl! People who are attacted to women are probably... attracted to women. I'm not saying I would find a hairless vulva non-attractive, but I would certainly find it unusual. It's not "the norm" ... or it hasn't been where I've been around during my life.

Isn't this a rather new fashion? In any case, of course you should do what YOU like. A person who's not attracted to you is not attracted to you, and you come with the choices you make and with your preferences.

I personally can't wait until both men *AND* women get over the bald crotch hysteria.

Jessica: I looked at those suits. I might try one!

Wow, before reading this blog I had absolutely no idea anyone except porn stars considered shaving "down there" the norm. In my entire 36 years of life, the thought of shaving or trimming my pubes has never even crossed my mind. Now that I know, I'll probably start feeling self-conscious.

One more voice of experience here:

Teen of Indian (dots, not feathers) descent here. I'm a bit on the hairy side--heavy eyebrows, long and dark body hair.

Of four boys who've been close enough to tell that I don't landscape, two expressed surprise: at least one of those two had never been with a girl who wasn't shaved. Neither of the girls I've been with said anything, though both were shaved.

This comment has been deleted.

I wound up doing a research project on shaving for a combined women's studies / sex ed / personal communications course I took a little over a year ago. Kind of eye opening.

First of all, it's kind of funny about men and shaving. Except for particularly old-fashioned religious groups (Amish, Hasidic/Orthodox, and Muslim) most mainstreamed men are expected to shave every day from puberty.

Another funny thing about it: more than half the world population, male and female, do it. Mostly for hygienic and religious reasons. Until the advent of regular bathing and the introduction of inexpensive non-lye soap it was very common among American pioneers and settlers to control rashes and pests as well. It might sound ironic but the first women I heard of either trimming or shaving were separatist feminists in my college in the early 1980s when toxic shock syndrome put the kibosh on tampons for a lot of people. A lot of them switched to washable cotton pads and trimming or shaving made it easier to keep clean.

Another interesting but disturbing tidbit: People of white, European descent tend to be a lot hairier than indigenous populations they colonized. Since at least the 1970s, in those areas (Argentina's often mentioned), shaving-products marketers have noted there's a strong class component to body-hair grooming such that women of European descent avoid shaving not so much to look "natural" as to *not* to look "native."

But again, like almost everyone who does pubic hair removal those are for class, religious, or hygienic reasons, not sexualized ones. Which is really what's different about the post-90s wave of shaving in the West. That doesn't make shaving a good thing, and *certainly* doesn't make it obligatory. But it does put it in at least a little deeper context.

---

Note: If someone does choose to shave, as opposed to just feeling peer-pressured into it, then since pubic hair is way more like facial hair than either leg or armpits a lot of the skills men have had to develop over the centuries might be applicable: do it in or right after a shower; when starting don't try and get it all off the first time because that's when the skin's most sensitive; use a really good shaving creme, preferably a gel type; use a non-disposable with at least three and preferably five blades; use a *men's razor* rather than a (more expensive, designed mostly for legs) women's version; use a mirror(!); splash with cold water to close the pores, etc. Oh, and *if* you're going to shave at all do it every one or two days to reduce pulling, follicle irritation, and (especially) itching; etc.

---

Finally, seriously, about this recurring pubescent/pre-pubescent thing: with or pubic without hair both men's and women's genitals look as different from children's as men's faces do with or without beards. There are plenty of good reasons not to shave or trim but the "pre-pubescent" thing says more about denial and unfamiliarity with grownup bodies (or, more optimistically, small children's) than anything else. For instance (since they're frequently photographed together) Google around for images of George Clooney and Brad Pitt and tell me that a) Clooney looks immature without a beard and b) Pitt looks mature with one. It's the same with people.

Oh, I said finally but one more thing: It used to really annoy men when a partner (or employer!) told me I had to shave my beard and moustache and so I *really* don't think anyone should tell someone else to shave his or her pubic hair. That said, While I've never kissed anyone with a beard so I can't really compare it to kissing someone's vulva who hasn't shaved. But I *have* been kissed both with and without a beard and there's... just... so much more sensation when someone kisses my face when I've shaved it than when I've had a beard. So while I probably wouldn't shave my face because someone else told me I had to I do shave my face for *me.*

figleaf

pubic hair and beards... retain scent, diffuse scent... possibly beards are a way for women to scent mark their men? I don't know how you would prove it.

But a lot of the obsession with removing body hair, especially underarm, relates to not smelling - and that's part of the "not using up space" meme that women are expected to buy into.
It's also exaggerating the gender difference - men are hairy, women are not, even when they are, really.

kay, first off - yelling at the person asking the question is *not* cool - for whatever reason (and i can think of many) she felt more comfortable *ASKING* someone who can claim some expertise on the subject (and fucking seriously, where else *BUT* a feminist forum are you going to find an open honest discussion about the removal of body hair that isn't predicated on the patriarichal norms? fucking *nowhere*, that's where, because every fucking place else is full of people *constantly* policing women and girls about their appearance and social habits - often in conflicting and confusing ways - with bullshit preconceptions like "all women want are husbands" and "all women want to look exactly like supermodels" and "all women want to look exactly like supermodels to make it easier to get a husband". so step the fuck off)

that out of the way...
has no one here seen the original cut of the first "Revenge of the Nerds"?!
in the late 80's, it wasn't just accepted that women had public hair, but it was so common (and presumable so acceptable and even desirable) that sever SCENES from the movie revolved around the "Nerds" breaking into a sorority house to install hidden video cameras so that they could "see bush!" (i am not saying that this was an *OK* thing to do, let alone a good thing! even as a kid i was really offended by the scenes and the implication that all guys were really only after sex with hot girls and that it was ok to do anything, even break into house, illegally tape people without their knowledge/consent and/or pretend to be someone else to fuck (and i think it should have been rape, since she was sleeping with him while thinking he was someone ELSE) so it was BAD - but it proves the point that "bald" a new fad, even if it is a new wave of an old fad)

personally, i am weird - i am half Cherokee, so my pubic hair is not just *really* dark and *really* thick, but it is also *straight as fuck* - and i feel alone there, because most depictions i have seen of naked women who had public hair had *curly* hair...
so it sometimes feels embarrasing, even at age 32.
but shaving - so, when i started getting public hair, my mother would often suggest i trim my "bikini line" so that my pubic hair didn't stick out of my bathing suit (or my leotard for dance...) the first time i asked "wouldn't it be easier to just get rid of all of it?" because for various reasons i was really uncomfotable with having public hair.
i will *NEVERNEVERFUCKINGNEVER* shave again. i was 12.
the first real boyfriend i had that i had sex with once told me (because i asked if he wanted me to shave) the line about how he didn't want to date a child, and if i shaved he'd feel like he was fucking a child.
so, as insulting as i view that *now*, at the time it was relieving.
i have dated guys who wanted me to trim, i practice i *do* do because otherwise if i am wearing anything thinner than denim everyone can *SEE* the outline of my pubic hair.
but trim is *it*
because, as Foxy said - it's your body. and no, NOT everyone is doing it, i really think it is only certain subsects of the population who are doing it (and that is mostly among those who have enough money to PAY SOMEONE ELSE to remove it, because DAMN is it a pain the vulva to do!)

Body hair is like, the bane of my existence. I am of Mediterranean descent and have the thick black hair to proove it. Unfortunately I also have delicate, sensitive skin that does not react well to shaving. I find the best thing for me is to get my pubic region professionally waxed as this gives a smoother longer lasting result, and regrowth is fine rather than stubbly. Alas, there is nothing I can do about the dark peach-fuzz that abounds just about everywhere on my body. What does society want me to do, spend my whole life removing hair from every square-inch of myself? It sucks, but its just a genetic, racial thing and I've been self-conscious about it ever since I was bullied for being hairy at school (I am British and the majority of people I went to school with were Anglo-saxon and light skinned/haired). Sometimes being hairy just gets me down so much : (

For a long time I shaved *just* enough in the summer to not hang out of my swimsuit, and also struggled with stubble and itchiness. It was a real chore. Then a girlfriend turned me on to laser hair removal, and I'm SO pleased with the results! I've got ennough bush up front to feel hairy, and have had everything else permanently removed -- yes, all the way back. It's awesome. I get a lot more sensation throughout the day, and with a partner, and I feel so much cleaner all the time. Even better, I NEVER think about shaving. It's just done, exactly how I like it, all the time. I can't recommend it enough!

If he can't deal with pubic hair, how is he going to deal with anything else in your sex life? I think that if he wants to keep having sex with you, he just has to deal with some bush in his face. Since it's trimmed and groomed, he should be ok with it.

Of all the places where I grow unwanted hair, my pubic hair is the least of my concerns. I shave or wax etc. a bit around the bikini line, trim it so it doesn't get too long (especially when I menstruate, I can really do without longer curls of pubic hair getting sticky with slime and blood).
I have some hair growth under my navel and around my nipples, which is doing worse things for my self-esteem than my pubic hair. I mean, current trends or fashion aside, pubic hair is generally seen as normal for women, but hair on breasts is not.
Right now I am experimenting with this sugar/lemon/water mix for leg hair removal. It is used kind of like wax, but it hurts less, doesn't irritate my skin, is a whole lot cheaper and contains no chemicals. There is definitely a psychological advantage to this, too, which I hadn't realized before... I am frustrated with an industry that produces a variety of hair removal methods that all work very badly for me, cost a lot of money, are painful, and in all their advertizing seem to imply that if it doesn't turn me into a smooth-skinned smiling lady after one application, I'm some kind of freak of nature. Turning my back on all their razors and creams and false promises is kind of liberating.

I am also of Mediterranean descent. I have thick, dark, long body hair which also grows visibly on my butt, between and on the breasts and below my navel. No, I don't have hormonal problems, I'm just hairy.
I used to wax but it hurt like hell, especially the bikini line. So I started shaving... until I got a gorgeous, delicate skinned northern European boyfriend who got an awful whisker burn in HIS privates due to MY (as yet barely visible) regrowth.
He very quickly agreed to me keeping or removing whatever hair I wanted wherever I wanted, so long as I stopped shaving near the pubic area :-).
We've been together almost two decades and our children are used to mummy having some chest hair and papa having none.

I shave because I hate hair anywhere except my head. I hate the look, the feel, and I also hate it on my partners of any gender or sex. I realize that this must stem largely from societal conditioning, but there it is.

This comment has been deleted.

oh and also from Naomi Wolf:
"The onslaught of porn is responsible for deadening male libido in relation to real women, and leading men to see fewer and fewer women as 'porn-worthy.' Far from having to fend off porn-crazed young men, young women are worrying that as mere flesh and blood, they can scarcely get, let alone hold, their attention." Wolf advocates abstaining from porn not on moral grounds, but because "greater supply of the stimulant equals diminished capacity."[40]

On a sex etiquette level, I think some trimming is appropriate (for all genders). It provides easier access to genitalia with less of a chance of getting pubic hair in one's partner's mouth.

Sex etiquette?? Umm isn't everyone different and therefore there can't be something called "sex etiquette"? Easier access? Since when is bushy pubic hair like a locked door or something? Why should trimming be etiquette?! I've never wanted to trim. Push it away with your fingers or something. Deal with the hair! I mean, I can see deciding to trim or shave for your own preference or some agreed upon situation with a particular partner, but general etiquette? What? Also, a strictly heterosexual woman wouldn't really know how much "trimming" to do without her partner telling her, since she's never gone down on herself or another women to know what gets in the way. Trimming for sex etiquette also implies there there will be oral sex, which there isn't always. And trimming for oral might not be right for other kinds of sex.

Also, I hope I'm not the only one that wishes more practical bathing suits for women were in-style. Let's go back to the 20s style! Does anybody make those nowadays? I'd totally buy one of those unitard bathing suits. This bikini stuff makes NO SENSE. Usually you think women don't want to wear bikinis because of weight, I don't want to wear one because of the hair-fest that I refuse to trim or shave. It's annoying enough to shave below the knee in the summer (it's TOO HOT where I am to not!). Ugh. lol Such a pet peeve. Sorry for my rant!

I have always had almost invisible body hair (very fine, soft, and light) to the point where I don't have to shave my legs or underarms, even in summertime. My pubic hair is dark and visible, but like all my other body hair, I have a lot less than average.

I've never considered myself "lucky", but I had a college roommate whose weekly beauty regimen included regular exfoliation and bleaching, and she often told me I was blessed.

A couple of decades ago I was indoctrinated into the necessity of hair removal for swimsuits. I didn't like it but truthfully, it wasn't much of a burden on someone who could pluck the few hairs that strayed outside of her bikini line.

But I'm frankly astonished and horrified to hear that denuded pudenda have become the new "norm" and one that men now "expect" from their partners. Ick.

I had an old flame tell me that HE shaves his genitals completely, and has done so for many years. The idea of this is, to me, a huge turnoff. I have always liked the look of body hair on men and I find thick, springy, wiry male pubic hair to be very stimulating during intercourse, especially with grinding against my clit.

I haven't seen that aspect of pubic hair mentioned before, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

I think the sociological history of the removal (or non-removal), while interesting, should be ignored when it comes to making ones own choice. Yes the societal standards about pubic hair is a feminist issue, and it is apalling that there are men who expect that of their partners. It really is. But the bottom line is, it is YOUR body. Like Professor Foxy said, everyone has their own choice and their own reasons.

For me it depends on my situation. At the moment I only bother when it gets long enough to annoy me or be visible under clothes or whatever. But in the past when I was having regular sex, or when I just generally wanted to feel a little more groomed or pampered, I trimmed a bit more regularly and shaved my bikini line from time to time too. When I'm depressed I wear the same pyjamas for days, don't wash my hair and even forget to brush my teeth sometimes, let alone take care of my pubic hair. On the other hand, sometimes when I feel down it makes me feel better to groom and pamper myself. It all depends.

I can see why some people have it all waxed off, I love the feel of my legs when I wax them, the skin feels all smooth and silky, but personally it sounds like agony. To those whose skin reacts badly to shaving with a safety razor, if you haven't already, try an electric razor. My skin gets red and blistery if I shave my bikini line with a safety razor but with an electric razor I don't have any problems with my skin after shaving.

I've been interested to read all the responses for this topic. I don't know about other folks here, but when somebody brings up the topic of shaving or waxing I get really uptight because I've had a hell of a hard time getting over feeling dirty for having hair.

I believe "to each his/her own." I agree that it's not anyone's right to disparage others' grooming choices. But if I started dating someone and he/she asked me or (worse) told me to shave or wax, I would get angry and defensive.

The reason is because even though I did wax once, and it was terrible, I recently found myself considering it again. I told myself it would be for "hygiene" and then it slowly dawned on me that I was totally lying to myself. I just wanted to get rid of it because I'm still ashamed of having hair. Like there's this feeling in me that hair isn't natural for women, like it shouldn't be there.

There's nothing at all bad about shaving or waxing in itself, but it is sick to be internally or externally pressured into tearing out your own pubic hair. There is nothing wrong with hair removal. There is something wrong with:

*The idea that a woman's body should be all aesthetically pleasing all the time (And who gets to define what is aesthetically pleasing?)

*That a woman ought to bring her body into line with whatever criteria the culture came up with, no matter how painful, or inconvenient, or unwanted. And in this way, it's like a woman's body is some kind of weird public domain, like it's everybody's right to say "this is OK but this is not."

*That a woman's sex organs are dirty and need to be cleaned, be it the old "clean your evil vagina" douching ad campaigns of yore, or the idea that menstruation=unclean and horrible, or the removal of hair so far as it feeds into the female sex=unclean idea

*That a woman should be like women in porn--she should let herself be penetrated anally, she should remove her hair, she should let him come on her face--REGARDLESS of her feelings about whether or not she would like to do these individual practices.

So, yeah. Blah blah blah blah. I guess what I'm saying is that the bottom line is the idea that other people should have a say in what a woman does with her own body is crap. Disparaging a woman or women for keeping body hair in x place, whatever it may be, is wrong.

It's also not nice to go too far the other way and disparage women who do remove their body hair as trying to be prepubescent or what have you, because their grooming practices are their business. But I think it might be hard not to go off on hair removal and end up totally stomping on the toes of people who do wax or shave if you're still dealing with some weird fucked-up ideas about your own body like yours truly. This doesn't excuse it, but it might be something to think about.

Maybe that made sense.

This issue is very emotional for me: I'm 19 and NEVEREVEREVER considered shaving or trimming until my boyfriend asked me (very respectfully and nicely) a couple months ago. I don't think my mom shaves (I remember taking showers with her when I was little and seeing hair), and it just never occurred to me that someone would do that.

Last week my best friend AND my FATHER took it upon themselves to tell me I should start trimming/shaving my bikini line.

FOR ME, I like my unbridled bush because it's the only part of my body that I haven't always been told or expected to edit or censor, and if I did change it for someone it then I wouldn't really be being my full self. I've even told my boyfriend he doesn't have to eat me out if the hair bothers him (he hasn't stopped =]).

I don't like the view expressed a couple times that if a partner has an objection to one component of sex they should be kicked to the curb- this reduces relationships to sex, when there are usually many other factors, some of more importance (depending on the individual). If I had less emotional attachment to my pubic hair, I wouldn't mind shaving it for a partner.

Then again, I find it funny that people feel that asking people to remove their pubic hair is tolerated when asking someone to radically change their hairstyle would not be (usually). But then I'm quite attached to me (long) hair, aswell...basically, I like all hair (though I do shave my armpits). Not in a turn-on way, but it's natural, it's there, it isn't unpleasant, and if I get some in my teeth when I'm blowing my boy - it's something we can laugh about while we cuddle.

I guess I've been lucky. I only recently started shaving as an experiment and I found that for me, it made me feel cleaner and more comfortable (no more painful issues with maxi-pad adhesive and pube hair). I've never been pressured either way...it was just never an issue with my previous partners or my husband today. Perhaps it was never an issue because most of the men in my life have never been big on giving oral sex...which isn't exactly a good thing.

I do see the disturbing relation between shaved female genitals and an unwholesome obsession with barely pubescent girls. It bothers me, but truthfully I've taken up shaving my stuff for my own benefit. I don't care what reasons others may perceive me to be doing it for; I simply prefer it.

In the end, it's all a personal decision and personal preference. Nobody likes to get "floss" but the impression I've gotten is that men are less likely to give oral pleasure than women anyhow, so if I were unshaven I personally wouldn't change that at my partner's request unless he signed a contract stating he's going to go down on me twice per day for the rest of our relationship.

Why should a woman put herself through discomfort over someone else's preference unless the gain is greater than the inconvenience?

I dunno - I think the only person who has the right to comment on my pubic hair or any other aspect of my looks is my significant other, and even then, it's only a right to comment, not a right to have me change my looks. Of course, I do want to look attractive for my partner, so I may decide to make the change in question, but it is my own decision and my own business.

As for anyone else - whether it's random strangers on the beach, or "society" in general - I will cheerfully extend a proud (and hairy) middle digit in their direction, use the appropriate expletive, and make it very clear that my body belongs to me, and what I do with it is my own business. If they don't like the way I look, they can damn well look the other way.

You have to wonder just how the cosmetic surgery industry has benefited from the "trend" that started in the porn industry as far as showing women in detail the "ideal" female genitalia they should have.

And if they don't look exactly like the women in porn (as with the unnatural breast shape/size) the cosmetic surgeon has the answer for you: a labiaplasty...I never heard of this surgery (how long has it been around?) till recent years.

As long as women still had pubic hair whatever slight variations that existed were pretty well hidden from view.

Look at all the $$ made from waxing products, services. Add in the cosmetic surgeries. All the time women spend maintaining, changing their natural selves to conform.

I also think part of it is another way women are totally stripped down, nothing hidden from view, that total accessibility for viewing thing that insists the stripper can't even hang on to her g-string. Gotta show it all, every centimeter.

"On a sex etiquette level, I think some trimming is appropriate (for all genders)."

I just want to add my two cents on the use of the word "appropriate." Since you admit, Professor Foxy, how variable these things are - depending on one's sexual preferences, skin sensitivity, hair length/thickness, I think I would avoid deeming what is "appropriate" in such a decision. Who is behaving "inappropriately"? Those who prefer - even love - to shave or wax, or those who think they're beautiful as they are?

Can everyone please stop saying that shaved pussies look like 12-year-old girls and that women without pubic hair don't look sexually mature? What the fuck? Pressure to keep pubic hair is stupid, too. I've had men tell me to do that, too, and it's just as hurtful and annoying as men telling women to shave.

I shave and I've had a Brazilian (never doing THAT again) and while sometimes I get an ingrown hair or two, it's never that bad because I both exfoliate and moisturize, just like I do with my legs to keep them from drying out or being covered with ingrown hairs.

I started shaving because my boyfriend asked me to. At first, I refused and I explained about the whole not-wanting-to-look-like-a-12-yr-old thing (and I am also often mistaken for a teenager, which adds a level of creepiness) but he never pushed it. It stayed in my head though, and when I mentioned it again and asked why he'd requested that, he said it makes it easier to give oral, without having stray hairs all over the place. So I considered it again, since I knew it wasn't just some sexist request and I tried it.

Now, I can't stand the feeling of a lot of hair there, just like I can't stand underarm hair growing out. It feels cleaner and I find sex more pleasurable because there's less in the way of physical contact. It's just my personal preference and I felt like explaining why I do it, despite its implications.

I regularly get brazilian bikini waxes, though I used to shave. After having my child, I let my hair grow for months. (Not out of choice, but there was simply no time or extra $ to splurge on a waxing.) Well, I hated it. For me, I was always sweaty and itchy WITH the hair. I realize that's not the case for everyone, so for those that choose to leave it all there, or trim, or whatever, more power to you. Personally, I like nothing there and that's what works for me. I also have a high pain tolerance so brazilian waxes don't really hurt me anyway. I can't handle shaving; my shower always looks like I massacred a small poodle afterwards so that's a no no.

I think we should all respect each other's decisions. It's a personal topic and one that really is no one's business. Whether you shave, wax, or do nothing to it at all, it's OK. Period.

I also agree with the prior comments to stop referring to shaved/waxed labia as similar to a little girls. I mean, really...there is nothing remotely infantile about my labia, with or withtout hair.

look i get a brazilian wax about every five weeks. i do recognize that this whole pube removal craze is fueled by porn--i make no representation that it would have ever occurred to me to do this without that.

i don't even remember how i got started, just that when i was like, i don't know, fourteen or so and wearing bikinis, it was presented to me as customary to shave one's bikini line. somewhere after that, i guess in high school when i started seeing internet porn, i just got the impression that it was sexy/important to shave at least most of one's ladyjunk, so i started around the time i began having sex. it was always annoying for me though, because i have extremely sensitive skin. the razor burn, ingrown hairs and fleeting smoothness just ceased to be worth it. i couldn't do it more than once a week at the most and the hair grew back so quickly that i felt like it was only even smooth for like a day in the first place, so i would stop occasionally during periods where i wasn't really having sex. it wasn't a huge improvement though, because the hair was hot and itchy (i am from texas).

something like six years ago, i decided to give waxing a try and it's been the solution for me. yes it's an expense and yes it hurts, but it's really not THAT bad and it's not uncomfortable afterward, unlike shaving, where the itching and razor burn were terrible, the hair grows back much slower and patchier than shaving, and it lasts much longer. as long as i exfoliate, ingrown hairs are really not a problem. if waxing hadn't worked out for me, i would have just had to live with the hair, because shaving was a disaster.

personally, i like doing this because that area is very sensitive and i can feel more during sex without the hair; it's also easier for boys to find their way around, and it is more comfortable during the summer. i know that my boyfriend enjoys it, but it's not like he'd really raise a complaint if i stopped waxing. i fully recognize that this is fucked-up standards and i'm troubled by 13-year-olds feeling pressure to shave their genitals. i won't say my choice is a feminist one, because it's conforming to arbitrary beauty standards (ones that are disproportionately imposed on women, no less), but i won't apologize for doing something that provides me greater sexual satisfaction either.

normally i'd say that the trend would go back to the bush as trends tend to cycle, but the fact that growing hair is free, but removing it has developed a whole cottage industry leads me to believe that hairless is here to stay for awhile. if anything, i expect more pressure on guys to remove their pubic hair.

this is also maybe kind of weird, but i'll add that waxing i think has helped me be more comfortable with my body. the first time i was all nervous about someone being up in my business (who wasn't a lover or a doctor), but i really like the esthetician i've been going to for years; she's super nice and funny and takes all the weirdness out of it. like i'm not worrying whether this chick thinks my vag is normal or not; we're just chatting like if she was doing my (head) hair or my nails or whatever like it's no big thing. i now have zero issues being nervous or shy being naked at the spa or whatever now that i've had an intense conversation about politics or movies or books with a woman who's ripping muslin strips with wax off my butthole. seriously, it sounds crazy but it's true.

Just my tuppence worth: I don't shave any of my other body hair (I sometimes lighten my leg hair in the summer), but I do semi-regularly trim round the edges of my pubic hair. I guess my body hair is both a personal aesthetical choice (I GENUINELY don't see how hairless is more attractive in anyone, man or woman), but also a bit of a statement if I'm honest. I've decided to go my own way against society and sometimes when I see people (mostly other women) staring I have the faint hope it may make them think why they do it themselves. Probably not, but you never know! But as my pubic hair is part of my very personal and intimate sex life with my partner I sometimes feel I want to change it for variety just between us. Another thing I have learned recently in terms of totally getting rid of the whole is-hair-sticking-out-of-my-bikini dilemma is to find a naked beach and bear all. Soooo much easier! it's amazing how removal of that tiny piece of cloth just makes any hair that's on show seem so insignificant.