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Ask Professor Foxy: Should I Lose My Virginity?


Apologies for the delay, there were some technical difficulties - PF

This weekly column "Ask Professor Foxy" will regularly contain sexually explicit material. This material is likely not safe for work viewing. The title of the column will include the major topic of the post, so please read the topic when deciding whether or not to read the entire column.

Dear Professor Foxy,

I am 22 and half years old and I am still a virgin, and frankly, I worry a lot that this is strange and unusual.

From age 17 to 20, I dated two different guys seriously. Coming from a pretty religious Roman Catholic background, at first I didn't want to have sex for all the wrong reasons -- because nice girls don't do that outside of marriage, etc etc. As I got a little older and a little more in touch with my feminist self, I realized I didn't want to wait for marriage, but that I simply wasn't ready yet to have sex, and not with that particular guy. It will work itself out later, I figured.

But now all of a sudden I'm 22, just graduated from college, and things seem different from this perspective. The majority of my friends have had sex, and as a feminist and a student of women's studies, I'm very much surrounded by writing and thinking that advocates women to take charge of their sexuality and be sexual and have sex if they want to. And I support that 100% -- its just, I also start to feel like I am the ONLY ONE who hasn't had sex yet!

The thing that makes it more difficult is that I could have sex if I wanted to. I am involved with a very nice, kind guy right now. But it is very casual and at the end of the summer we will be moving to different coasts and we both expect things to end. I'm sure having sex with this guy would be a perfectly nice experience, we've done everything else ever there is to do already, and I'm very comfortable with him. A large part of me says hey, you're 22, you'll definitely like sex a lot, who knows when you'll be in any sort of relationship again (my new job will not be very conducive to being in any sort of serious relationship for various reasons), just do it. But then another part wonders, what if I regret it -- I don't want to do it just to get it over with.

I guess what I am wondering is basically, how unusual is it to be 22 and still a virgin? And am I making far too big a deal out of this one little act?

Thanks,
L

Hey L -
Two major thoughts occur to me:

1. How much people want to be normal when it comes to sex. Have sex at the right time. Make the right noises, Smell the right way. And how there really is no normal. The only thing that actually matters is what is right for you.

2. I can't give you a clean answer to have sex or not to have sex. Culturally, we tie a lot of import to THE FIRST ONE for women. While we can go through a lot of feminist deprogramming, that deprogramming does not always reach our own feelings and self-judgments. This is a decision you have to make for yourself, both how much it matters it to you and whether or not to have sex.

What it really comes down to is how much emphasis you place on what you are defining as sex. And I think that the "defining" part is key. I am not sure how sexually intimate you are with your current partner. Are you doing everything but putting penis into vagina? Or are you at the kissing and above the waist groping stage?

If you are at a clothes on or no exchange of bodily fluids or no penetration stage, having sex is a pretty big step and one you do not seem ready to take.

If you are already getting naked, exchanging bodily fluids, etc, you are closer to having vaginal-penile intercourse and it may make more sense to have sex.

I think there is something emotionally safer about having sex with someone who is leaving. No matter how emotional or invested you find yourself afterwards, they are going to be gone and you cannot tie unrealistic expectations to them. Time limited relationships also allow the person to stay closer to perfection. Traits that may later become annoying (leaving the seat up, an obnoxious laugh) are sweet and endearing in only a few months.

You also get to get over your first time jitters with someone who you are not trying to build a long-term relationship with. That can make all the potentially embarrassing moments less embarrassing.

The other side is you may regret it. Regret is a funny thing because there are very few predictors of what we will regret. Keep in mind you can start to have sex and stop at any point. If your inner voice starts to tell you that sex is not right, stop. You owe no one sex.

And if you decide to have sex, make sure to make it safe. Use condoms, women get pregnant, become HIV positive, or catch a sexually transmitted disease the first time.

You need to make your own choice, but weigh the pros and cons and listen to your gut. Only you can know what is best for you.

Best,
Professor Foxy

If you have a question for Professor Foxy, send it to ProfessorFoxyATfeministingDOTcom.

Posted by Professor Foxy - June 28, 2009, at 09:35AM | in Ask Professor Foxy , Sex

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77 Comments

Foxy is absolutely right and I'd like to share with you some information on my lost virginity. I am a highly sensual and sexual individual. I'm also independent and feminist, and I often felt foolish about the fact that despite all the noise I make about how attracted I am to certain people, I'd not had sex yet.

I waited until I was 25. I did it with someone I loved and trusted, even if we weren't in a serious relationship. He's still a very close friend to this day (his best friend married my sister in fact, so he's stuck with me! LOL!)

Anyway. I was two years older than you are now and I thought I would never have sex. But I did. And I hit the ground running, as it were. Then I got used to it and it wasn't a big deal anymore.

I would not have lost my virginity any other way. I am so very glad I waited. I wasn't embarrassed about my first time. It wasn't the best sex ever but I treasure that night. I treasure the moment and I smile when I think of it. It didn't hurt cause I was ready - I'd played with toys for years and I wasn't afraid, so there wasn't any resistance. It felt natural and it felt right. I feel blessed that I had such a good first time.

And I know the best decision I could have made was to listen to my heart, and not the cultural pressures around me.

Have faith in your judgement. You will know the right time. You are no less a feminist or a person just because you're waiting for the right moment to try that particular intimate interaction. And I found that, for me, it wasn't quite as meaningful or enjoyable if it wasn't something that had some weight behind it. If it's just sex for the sake of sex, yeah, it's fun, but it's kinda like a hamburger. It's yummy and all, but you kinda feel hungry after eating it, and you wish you hadn't eaten it in the first place. But that's just me, I'm sure there are a lot of people of either sex that thoroughly enjoy casual intercourse.

Anyway, I just wanted to reassure you and to let you know that you're not strange or unusual. You're doing what's right for you, and that's the best thing anyone can do.

[0+] Author Profile Page screamapillette said:

I first had sex when I was just shy of 23. At the time I felt like I was the only person who had waited so long, but I also didn't really care about that too much. I just didn't feel ready.

Even though I felt like a late bloomer at the time, in the intervening years I've learned of many women who waited as long or longer. I'm 26 now and some of my friends still haven't had sex -- and I run in feminist-minded circles, so it's not a social-coercion thing. It's definitely "normal" to be a virgin at 22, or 23, or 24. And honestly even though it's only been three and a half years, I feel like I've been having sex forever -- by that I mean it's not like I regret all those pre-22 years when I wasn't having sex. I don't feel like I missed out on anything. My sex life has been pretty fulfilling so far.

The question of how big of a deal it "should" be is a tricky one, because it depends entirely on you. I had always thought I needed my first time to be meaningful or important. But I just kind of woke up one day and was like, "I'm ready to have sex." I had been casually seeing a friend so I basically told him, "Hey I want to have sex with you." We did and I have never regretted it. We fooled around together for a summer and then parted ways, but we're still friends today -- he's getting married now and I'm very happy for him. That's not how I would have pictured it all unfolding when I was 21, or 19, or 16, thinking about My First Time, but today, at 26, I'm actually very comfortable with it and I wouldn't change any of it.

So I don't think that it has to be particularly special or meaningful. But I also don't think that you (general you) should do it just to do it. Do it because you want to; wait because you want to. I feel like as long as you listen to what you really want, and act accordingly, then you can't really make a bad choice.

[0+] Author Profile Page Athenia said:

I'm 25 and I'm still a virgin!

I can totally understand wanting to do it with the love of your life etc.

I also understand feeling not normal and wanting to get rid of it....but still not wanting to do it for the wrong reasons. (I'm Roman Catholic too, go figure!)

On whether or not to do it with this guy, I think it depends on what you want the experience to be like---you just have to manage your expectations. Like, if you really want to start your penis-in-vagina education with someone you can communicate with, but it doesn't have to have fireworks, then I say go for it.

Either way it sounds, you haven't met The One yet and that will continue to be the great unknown even after you break up with this guy.......so if you define sex as Fireworks---whether you sleep with this guy or not, you're still gonna have to wait for the Fireworks (therefore, you're not missing out on anything).

I hope that made sense!

I agree with Prof. Foxy. Wait till it's right for you, and then it's ok. I'm 23 and I'm still a virgin and I'm a feminist. I have no qualms with this because it's what is right for me. I'm tempted to remain a virgin for the rest of my life because it makes me different. This all may change once I find the right person, but with my batting average that seems less likely.

[0+] Author Profile Page ladylily21 said:

I have a slightly different perspective ... I waited until I was in my mid-20s as well, largely because I just didn't date anyone until that point that I particularly enjoyed hooking up with, and I wanted to at least have a chance at enjoying sex the first time. I finally started dating a guy when I was 24 whom I liked a lot and enjoyed very much, and so I slept with him fairly early in the relationship - about 2 months in. He was fantastic, and I actually wound up marrying him a couple of years later. I adore him and am happily married, but I have a lot of regret that I didn't experiment more when I had the chance. I'd say go for it with the guy who is moving away. I think we put way too much importance on a girl's first time, and you should just enjoy it.

[0+] Author Profile Page Kate the Great said:

I also think we put too much pressure on "the first time". I lost my virginity at 16, I really wasn't ready, but all my friends were already sexually active. Plus, I really didn't understand that I could change my mind once it started. So my first time pretty much sucked, but I've moved on from it. Plus I've had a chance to re-do the first time every time I have sex with a new partner. Infact, the first time with my husband was everything I thought it was supposed to be back when I was 16.

[0+] Author Profile Page Dave Paul said:

Great post, as usual Foxy.

I think it boils down to our nation putting WAY too much emphasis on sex. Especially women having sex. And especially women having sex the first time.

I think this is really not at all surprising given our Judeo-Christian heritage. And lets not forget that patriarchy has always had a strong influence on religious doctrine. And as a result, men in power (both religious and secular) have a vested interest in attached strong importance to sexual intercourse, especially with regards to female sexuality.

My advice is for us to overcome our antiquated notions of sexuality and accept the fact that we are all human. Sex is a human experience and a human desire. Most people want it and most people engage in it. It is something that we are biologically constructed to enjoy (when conducted properly). So if one's beliefs are making this very human and very natural experience painful, frightening, or shameful, than those beliefs should be dropped. I am not saying people need to be agnostic or un-religious, but we just need to adapt our religous/moral beliefs to incorporate the ubiquity of sexual desire, in all its forms and expressions (hetero, homo, etc).

I enjoy reading your posts Foxy. Keep up the good work!

[0+] Author Profile Page butterflywings said:

Yeah, I agree with Professor Foxy - only you can make this decision.

I wonder if you should think about why you want to have sex with this guy, and what's holding you back.

There are plenty of good reasons to have sex - to express your feelings for this guy, because you wonder what it's like (and wanting to try new experiences is a very normal and necessary part of growing up) and lastly, because you're just, well, horny.

'I should have done it by now' is NOT a good reason, though - don't feel weird.

I think this is a pretty ideal situation; you're clearly with someone you care a lot about, and are very comfortable with.

If you feel awkward about being a virgin at 22, it's only going to get more so when you're 25 or 30. (Not that there's anything *wrong* with waiting until then, just to say that if it bothers you now, it will then).

Also, you say your new job won't leave you time to meet people, so how long is it going to be before you meet someone else you care about as much as your current guy? Picking up a random stranger in a bar really doesn't sound like your thing, and that is not going to magically change in 5 or 10 years. So if you ended up doing that just to get it over with, you'd probably regret that a lot more.

So, if you really want to get it over with, you may as well do it now. I would add that the first time isn't *that* big a deal, much as a huge deal is made of it. Many people feel like 'is that - it?' (myself included).

I do wonder if some vestiges of the 'nice girls don't' thing is what's causing your conflicted feelings here. You realise that this is outdated, but perhaps your subsconscious mind doesn't. You clearly don't see a future with this guy. Perhaps part of you wants to wait, if not for marriage, for someone you are in a committed long-term relationship with. Whether that's realistic is up to you - you can choose to 'de-program' yourself from that, by telling yourself that, you know, choosing to have sex with one person you care a lot about doesn't make you the evil harlot because you weren't married and don't see a future with them. Or, you can live with it.

This might help, although it's aimed at teens, it is really helpful:

http://www.scarleteen.com/article/boyfriend/ready_or_not_the_scarleteen_sex_readiness_checklist

Whatever you decide, good luck.

[0+] Author Profile Page earthling said:

L, you say "we've done everything else ever there is to do already"... well I'm sorry to break it to you, but in that case you've already had sex!

Masturbation or oral, having orgasms with your partner - that *is* sex.

It is indicative of our patriarchal society that penis-in-vagina is seen as 'the main event' and that this act alone constitutes 'sex'. What about lesbian women? When do they 'lose their virginity'? If you think about this question then it becomes clear that physical intimacy, nakedness, touching of genitals etc is the real boundary, and as you say, you've already crossed it. In that sense, you're no longer a virgin.

Personally I don't feel it makes sense to set up a distinction between PIV and all other sexual acts, marking PIV out as particularly special - especially as many women cannot orgasm through PIV alone. In this way our society marks out the most important sexual act as being the one most pleasurable for men, and the one linked with procreation.

Our society has fostered a lot of anxiety about when and with who to have this special type of sex... and for women, it's hyped up to be this really big deal. (Presumably this stems from old cultural and religious traditions which dictated that women be virgins until marriage.) Caught up in this seems to be a worry that once you have had PIV with person A, future PIV with person B won't be as special, and so therefore you should wait for person B (i.e. until you're in love).

When you have PIV - or any type of sex - with someone you love, it's always special - it doesn't matter whether you're a 'virgin' or not. In fact, the more sex you have, the better it generally gets.

All this is a roundabout way of saying that you shouldn't feel any anxiety about having PIV with this man you're seeing... PIV is just one way to stimulate your sexual organs (albeit a way that needs more precautions) and you've already done that in other ways. Any particular specialness attached to the act is psychological. Do it, or don't do it... but don't worry about it.

Heh. If you put it like that, I lost my virginity at 23. I fooled around like nuts but I didn't do coital sex cause I was scared of getting pregnant (even with protection, cause I didn't take the pill). It's funny. I'd look at being pregnant as a blessing now!

While I understand and appreciate where you're going with this, I don't think it is your place (or mine, or anyone else's) to define what does and does not constitute sex for another person. L obviously feels that, irrespective of what else she and her boyfriend have done so far, PIV sex is a separate and significant step.

While the exact meaning of sex and virginity and how much social construction goes into these concepts is definitely a topic that warrants discussion and debate, I think it still behooves us to allow people to abide by their own definitions, particularly when it comes down to how those definitions end up dictating behavior.

In short, none of us gets to tell L, "oh, you're not a virgin anymore anyway." That's her identifier, based on her definitions.

[0+] Author Profile Page earthling replied to Unequivocal :

I was actually trying to alleviate L's anxiety about losing her virginity, but I take your point. I didn't actually tell her that she was no longer a virgin, as I qualified my remark with "in that sense", meaning *if* one takes other sexual acts as sex.

I was actually trying to provoke thought about the issue, not to dictate to anyone what they *should* see as sex.

[0+] Author Profile Page Emal replied to earthling :

The book "Good Vibrations Guide to Sex" (highly recommended if folks haven't encountered it) uses the phrase "outercourse" to describe sex that isn't heterosexual intercourse. I found the distinction helpful when I first became sexually active because it hadn't really occurred to me that there was something between kissing and intercourse.

For me PIV was definitely a significant step simply becuase of the possibility for pregnancy. However, the size of the step got smaller and smaller the more I thought about how phallocentric the equation of sex with intercourse is and how blurry the lines are between different types of sexual acts.

[0+] Author Profile Page Leighanne replied to earthling :

Couldn't agree more, earthling. Great response.

I don't think that the standing of PIV in society is a patriarchal manifestation but one that reflects the vast majorities of peoples experiences.

I think that someone definition of sex is one part sex-ered (as opposed to gendered) and one part gendered.

I... have a dick. I have never orgasmed without the involvement of my dick. Its either in someones hand, mouth, or vagina.

And my success rate of using my dick to orgasm is about 100%.

I have heard of women orgasming from nipple stimulation, ab machines, performing oral sex on some one, the list of ways that women orgasm without direct stimulation of the vagina or clit goes on and on.

Women success rate is generally less than 100% and can vary widley based upon the individual.

I have to tell you, if I have not put my penis in someones vagina I have not had sex with them. giving and recieving oral sex, manual stimulation, it is not the same.

PIV stands out on its own. It does not matter if it is the "we are fucking each others brains out" variety or something more emotionally intimate, it is different. Emotionally and physically.

Now, I have never been buggered but if I ever was I would probably consider that sex.

I think if you had a dick you would probably agree. I also think that most heterosexual women
would agree that oral sex, manual stimulation, all that, is sexual but not the sex.

I also think that lesbian and bi-sexual women have had a different bag of experiences and would have a different definition of sex.

So a persons definition of when they have had sex is one part sex-ered and one part gendered. I could easily see a man and a women engaging in activities and the woman thinks they had sex and the guy does not... no PIV.

I think that one reason the link between the definition of sex and PIV is because of the link between it and reproduction... specifically 'sexual' reproduction. There is no way purely homosexual intercourse is going to lead to 'sexual' reproduction.

PIV is the leading method of sexual reproduction in humans, despite the efforts of condoms, hormonal birth control, coitus interruptus and what other techniques to avoid pregnancy.

Based on the narrow biological terms, in humans PIV is how sexual reproduction occurs so that is sex.


Thoughts? Questions?

[0+] Author Profile Page Nepenthe replied to Steven :

Man, how I love hearing dudes talk about their dicks and where they like to put them, especially in a feminist space.


*quietly barfs in corner*

Now come on, earthling said her intent was to 'provoke' thought on the issue...

So I was provoked.

I am not the one to be embarrassed or upset because one person asked a question and someone else gets upset that I respond to that person.

You could address the substance of my post, that someones personal definition of sex is based on their biological sex and their gender.

With that frame work it makes perfect sense that my having a dick influences my experiences, just as you having a vagina influences yours.

So, after you get done huuuuuuurking in the corner you could actually engage in a conversation about how sex, gender and all that jazz influence someone perception of what counts as sex.

And you could also realize that it would be somewhat appropriate to relate ones own experiences too, even if they have a dick.

Steve, you were implying that your favorite kind of sex deserves pride of place.

You seem to be arguing that, if you have a penis, PIV is automatically going to be a more special kind of sex for you. That doesn't even make sense.

I really don't get your point about dicks and orgasms vs. women and ab machines (?!).

Men orgasm without dick stimulation all the time. It's called coming in your pants. Guys can also come from prostate stimulation, testicle play, and other kinds of other sex that doesn't directly stimulate the penis.

So it doesn't follow that having a penis automatically predisposes a person to exalt PIV over everything else.

Nobody's arguing that PIV isn't real sex. Your preferences are your preferences. Enjoy. But don't go around insinuating that your favorite sexual activities are more real or meaningful than other people's.

Everything doesn't revolve around your dick.

That's kind a funny after all of the songs, poems and essays and the like I have came across on feminist sites exalting vaginas and clits.

[0+] Author Profile Page Nepenthe replied to Steven :

Well, if I had wanted to read about dicks I would have gone to a place about dicks. That is, I would have gone to some other website or consumed some mainstream media. Feminism: it's not about you or your dick. It might even be about vaginas once in a while. Sorry if that upsets you.

If you are going to have a conversation about what 'sex' is you are going to run across dicks. I don't see why there has to be any animosity towards the idea that guys use their dicks during sex...

Ignoring dick when talking about sex would be the same as ignoring vagina and clit... it just does not make sense. Unless you want to write out half the population and then you are not really concerned about talking about sex.

And that is what this is, a conversation about sex. I don't know any form of feminism that is completely disinterested in dick. Whole books have been written about dick, dickings and the societal impact of dick.

Intercourse by Dworkin and The Second Sex by DeBouviour spend considerable amounts if ink concerned about dick.

So, is the problem that a guy can't provide any input? Are you from that degree of misanthropy? That you would invalidate someones sexual experience?

[0+] Author Profile Page Nepenthe replied to Steven :

No, really the problem is you coming in and talking about your dick. Not dicks in general, like Dworkin does. But your own, personal dick and it's success rate and your own personal favorite ways of sticking it places. And nobody asked "Gosh, I wonder how Steven feels about his dick and where he likes to stick it", but you decided to tell us all anyway. Which is great. You're going to come in and school us all with your manly wisdom on the power of the dick to make teh real sex.

And the other thing that pisses me off? Like, really super duper makes Nepenthe angry. This same bullshit argument about how PIV sex is the only real sex is what I heard before being raped by my unsatisfied, unsexed boyfriend. (Now feel free to dismiss everything I've said as hysterical.)

And, yeah, I'm totally a misanthrope. What of it?

I'm totally a misanthrope. What of it?

Well, it does help inform me of your world view. So there is some utility me noting that...

I don't think anybody is surprised that many males, myself included, have a penis-centric definition of sex. The why is linked to the proximity of sex, orgasm, and what every body parts are involved and the attendant results.

Why is that important? Because Steven thinks that someones personal definition of sex is influenced by their gender and their sex. You know, penis, testicles etc for males and vagina, uterus etc for females.

(I still have not heard Nepenthe articulate a different framework for understanding when sex has occurred.

I am truly interested for someone in this discussion to propose an alternate framework. Maybe mine is missing something, is completely jack up, who knows... but right now it is the only one proposed here.)

As I have stated several times in this discussion, I am talking about a personal definition of sex. My definition of sex should not bother you, nor should yours bother me.

Verily, in my first post I did say I also think that lesbian and bi-sexual women have had a different bag of experiences and would have a different definition of sex.

My definition is informed by my experiences, and in that they are relevant to my definition, just as yours experiences, whatever they may be, are relevant to your definition. You would not be completely able to describe why your definition without going into your experiences.

I don't feel any insecurity in the fact that lesbian and bi-sexual women don't consider the involvement of a penis the sine qua non of what constitutes a sexual act. Thats their definition based on their experiences.

I feel like the post have become circular and redundant, but hopefully some clarity will come out of it...

You also wrote You're going to come in and school us all with your manly wisdom on the power of the dick to make teh real sex.

A balance and non-misanthropic reading of what I have wrote (several times) acknowledges I have been sketching out a framework for understanding what constitutes sex.

I argued for personal definitions. My dick is only important in this conversation such that it informs my definition.

In regards to my 'manly wisdom' the only thing it has done is proposed a framework for what constitutes sex. Just b/c in my case it is PIV does not mean that it should be PIV for everybody.

The only thing my manly wisdom wants, in this instance, is for someone to propose a different framework for interpreting when sex has occurred. Then, conversation could ensue weighing the merits of each, and clarification could be sought by all parties.

Ciao

So sex is doing what could produce a baby basically? Just trying to get a concise opinion.

I mean I suppose people view PIV as sex because in their view both people have a part in that. If sex is when you orgasm, then sometimes one person had sex and another didn't?

As for age, I was 21 and glad I waited. But of course no one can know if you should wait but you. For the first time I was just curious. I was aroused but didn't feel like I needed sex. Now sometimes I'll actually get that physical feeling the PIV is what I want and an orgasm without PIV wouldn't satisfy me in the same way. So I don't know. It's a really individual thing. And often an orgasm without PIV is as good or better than PIV. It really depends on how much you physically and mentally want PIV. I say both because I was interested in having sex for a while before I did it, as it sounds like you are, but for months I wasn't completely mentally ready which affected me physically too.

I am sketching out the frameworks that people can and do adopt. I am also positing that there is subjectivity in when someone considers when they have had sex. Some definitions are surprisingly narrow, and some are surprisingly broad.

I don't personally consider that I have had sex unless its PIV. For me, PIV is that different emotionally and physically. It does not mean that every PIV encounter beats every other sexual one can have.

That does not mean that I don't think that oral sex, manual stimulation or whatever formal terms you want to apply to foreplay are unimportant and should be ignored. And it also does not mean when I orgasm I have a "we are done here" attitude.

I don't think anybody should be threatened by my personal definition, I am not selling it is the one true way.

I am not scared or intimidated by the fact that lesbians don't need a penis involved to consider an encounter as sex. It does not shock me to my core... what they consider sex is their business and does not affect me in any way, just as my personal definition does not really affect them.

[0+] Author Profile Page Jill replied to Steven :

I'm confused...

You said: "I don't think that the standing of PIV in society is a patriarchal manifestation but one that reflects the vast majorities of peoples experiences."

Then you followed that statement with an argument for the opposite position.

You noted how women can orgasm without the intervention of a penis, quite easily and quite often. You even noted how we don't always need clitoral or vaginal stimulation to orgasm (though I'm not sure that happens as frequently as you made it seem).

Doesn't your point illustrate that the penis-centric way of thinking about what is or is not "sex" comes from a society that focuses on what the males in that society think/want/need? ... which is the very definition of a partriarchy.

This is hardly the "vast majority of people's experiences" that you asserted it to be.

You contradicted yourself again when you said that if you were penetrated by a penis, you would consider that sex. Then you said that sex was so closely tied to reproduction that homosexual sex didn't really count.

Confused...

[0+] Author Profile Page Steven replied to Jill :

Jill,

I addressed some of the issues above in a response to Lyndorr so reading that might be informative.

Then you followed that statement with an argument for the opposite position.

If you could strip away all the patriarchy and what ever forms of heirarchy that are out what would we be left with?

I don't imagine with patriarchy and other forms of social hierarchy gone gender would disappear. I think we might see new genders appear, but I still think there would still be genders.

So then a definition of what constitutes someones personal definition of sex would be based on (or could be understood through) the factors that influence their definition of sex. I posit those factors would be someones biological sex and gender.

Doesn't your point illustrate that the penis-centric way of thinking about what is or is not "sex" comes from a society that focuses on what the males in that society think/want/need? ... which is the very definition of a partriarchy.

Now, I personally don't see how a personal of sex is patriarchal. You mention societal definitions of sex, I am talking about personal definitions of sex which I would consider anti-patriarchal, as it acknowledges the validity of someones personal experience.

I am male, biologically and gender-wise. It is not surprising to me that I would have a penis-centric definition of when I have had sex.

It also make sense that a woman may not adopt a personal definition of sex that was phallic-centric.

Clear as mud?

[0+] Author Profile Page Jill replied to Steven :

Firstly, a personal view of sex can be patriarchal insofar as it was influenced heavily by a patriarchy. This is possible, even probable, though not inevitable. I am not saying that your personal view of sex was necessarily influenced by a patriarchal society, only that broader societal views of sex as PIV tend to result from the default hetero male perspective: how he thinks, what he wants or needs: patriarchy.

Secondly, you did not, in your original post, mention anything about anyone’s personal view of sex. You addressed specifically how phallic-centric views were not the result of a patriarchal society. This is the claim that I took issue with.

Thirdly, I never mentioned gender. So, I have no idea why you started talking about the influence of gender. I only addressed the fallacy of your broader claim that “the vast majority of people” thought of sex as PIV.

Lastly, I think we’re basically on the same page – based solely on your concluding statement: “It also makes sense that a woman may not adopt a personal definition of sex that was phallic-centric.”

So..... yay.

I loved this response! It certainly was thought-provoking and actually did help me ease my own anxieties about PIV. Thank you, earthling!

[0+] Author Profile Page ElleStar said:

I was 20 and it was with a friend who I HAD loved (crushed on), but no longer felt much for him and knew it wasn't going to be a relationship.

Really, I only wanted to get it over with. I knew I was ready for sex, but not for a real relationship, and I was curious as hell about what all the fuss was over.

I was so relieved after it was over. It really IS no big deal and I felt better once I knew that for sure, despite what society was telling me about having sex.

So just wanting to not be a virgin is not a "good enough" reason for some to have sex, but it really worked out for me. I'll just echo what others have said and say that you should trust yourself and what you want.

[0+] Author Profile Page Dave Paul replied to ElleStar :

I was the same way ElleStar. I had sex the first time with someone I wasn't ready to become committed to and someone I couldn't possibly maintain a longterm relationship with. Frankly I just wanted to see what the fuss was about too. Mostly because I am a man and I felt like a hypocrite studying women's issues and sexuality without actually having intercourse with a woman.

I think sexuality is such a personal thing, we all have to do a little soul-searching the first time. That's about the ONLY "normal" thing about sex.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tara K. replied to Dave Paul :

I think first-time sex is kind of like eating kim chee. Where you wind up in ten years is not where you begin.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tara K. said:

1. Normal doesn't mean good. I lost my virginity at 15 while drunk in a tent. The guy was totally hot and I wanted it, but the sex sucked (actually, it hurt a lot) and mid-coitus I realized my drunk friend were watching and giggling through a crack. I'd say that was relatively normal (as many of us lose our virginities young and while drinking), but that doesn't make it good.

For the record, there was no "coercion" -- two horny drunk kids wanting to do it. And, it should be noted, that I have no regrets. Most of my teenage sex was bad and just sort of a prerequisite for the good stuff that came later.

Do what's right for you. That said, I can say that, FOR ME, I would have hated to have had too few partners. I feel like everyone experiences Beginner Sex which eventually leads to Intermediate and Advanced sex. And while it might be possible to have all of these w/one or a few partners, I think it would be difficult. (It's about you realizing what you like in bed, and it might be difficult for you and your sex to change if it's with the same people.) But that's just me.

Most importantly, don't build it up!! When it happens, it's going to be silly and strange and fun. And I think everyone -- even those who wait until marriage -- should view that first time (or first few times) as a test run. The important sex is the sex you have your whole life, not the first time. It probably won't predict or determine anything about your sex thereafter (assuming that it's a healthy, mutually consensual event).

[0+] Author Profile Page Alex Catgirl replied to Tara K. :

I want to second the sex hurting/sucking the first few times as many of the other accounts from people who waited make it sound too pleasant.

It could be an age thing the first time I chose to have sex was 13, the pain/non-enjoyment could stem from bodies not being developed enough, but I have heard accounts form early 20 somethings that make me think it's age/maturity independent. Don't let those times deter you it does get better.

I also second the "test run" philosophy,which is important to keep in mind if you enter the dating pool latter, the first couple relationships are practice, figuring yourself and stuff out. Very rarely do they turn into "life long" commitments.

That may be one of the advantages of starting young,even if you take your relationships seriously, nobody else does - mum/dad will reset your thinking if you go off the deep end.

[0+] Author Profile Page Emal replied to Alex Catgirl :

Count me in as one of those 20 somethings. I did not become sexually active by any definition until I was almost 21, and my partner was likewise inexperienced. Eventually we realized that each new thing we did (clitoral stimulation, oral sex, intercourse, whatever) required a decent amount of not-so-fun practice before it got to be enjoyable.

I think it's strange how the impression I got(mainly from media, I think) before I started having intercourse was that we'd somehow automatically know how to do it right. Once I realized that we had to go through beginning sex (whatever the type) to get to advanced sex, it took me a while to want advanced intercourse enough to go through beginning intercourse first. Even with a wonderful and caring partner, my only way to figure out what felt good and what hurt was through trial and error. Thank heavens for good communication with my partner!

So I'd suggest to L. that if she does decide to have intercourse with someone before she stops having relationships for a while, she might want to leave enough time to practice a bit until it gets good. Perhaps for some women it's wonderful at first, but that wasn't my experience.

[0+] Author Profile Page anteup replied to Emal :

"I think it's strange how the impression I got(mainly from media, I think) before I started having intercourse was that we'd somehow automatically know how to do it right."

Hell, it still is very much a learning experience with each new partner. I've slept with my fair share of people. So has the guy I recently started sleeping with. However, we haven't slept with each other much. We're still working out the kinks so to speak.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tara K. replied to Emal :

Hah, yeah. I just remember my first time thinking, "Is THIS sex??" It was not a sexy thing at all. And I'd say it took about 4 years and about a good number of partners before I really began to enjoy it, and another two before it got super good.

[0+] Author Profile Page Synna replied to Tara K. :

Must be something about 15yr olds and tents... My first time was when I was 15, in a tent, but we weren't drunk.

There is no 'correct' age at which to have sex. It is something that is individual to each of us.

For me, it was a fun and nerve wracking experience, but worth it. He was someone I had just met, and we liked each other, both had never had sex before and wanted to see what it was like. No emotional attachment or strings attached. It worked well for both of us.

Really, it reflects my values - I like to try all kinds of stuff just to see what its like. If its good I'll do it again, if its not enjoyable/interesting I wont.

I was glad to get it out of the way actually. I was not one that valued virginity or purity in any way shape or form.

So to L, perhaps think about what it is that you value in general and about sex. That might give you some more ideas about deciding to have sex.

I stayed a virgin for similar reasons until a similar age---and have many friends who have gone though the same thing, actually! We all went from a conservative area into places that introduced us to feminism. I didn't have sex until I was 22, and I have friends that are 24 and still have not---though they would if the right relationship came along now.

I think when you come from a religious background it can be tough to let go of the feeling that you should be with the person for a long time or be in love with them or whatever to have sex with them. It's perfectly okay to set those metrics for your own sexual pace---but it can also be hard to just say "I like this person, I trust this person, I want to have sex with them---so I will." Religion teaches that you have to have a certain bar or rule that must be met, and it can be tough to let go of that entirely.

[0+] Author Profile Page jayjay33 said:

Hi L, hi Prof. Foxy,

not sure, but maybe my perspective can help a little. I'm a guy, and while I'm not the 40yo virgin, I am a 33 yo virgin. I've felt awkward about not having had sex since I was about 16, but to be honest, looking back with hindsight, I'm not sure I was ready back then. I was simply too afraid and ran away whenever (rarely, as women usually still aren't particularly aggressive with this kind of thing) a girl and later woman made it understood what she wanted. In my case it's not just Religion but also a bit of a bad education in this respect in general and a little bit of a generalized anxiety issue.

So, in a way, I didn't have sex for all the wrong reasons, but also all the right reasons, as I wasn't ready. But on the other hand, not having had sex didn't make it easier either. In fact, it became this HUGE thing in my mind that in the end stood between me having real and fulfilling relationships to this day. To be clear: I'm not short of opportunities with women for both short and long term relationships. But I, to this day, never picked them up.

And I suppose part of the reason is my internalisation not of the "you have to have had sex by 18" anymore, but the fact that I have now internalized a checklist like that given by butterlywings above - and in a way, waiting for the perfect moment is putting just as much pressure on someone who is actually doing that, as opposed to most people, who look at lists and then go on with their lives. In a way, the problem is that with the risk discourse gaining strength in the sexuality context, particularly risk averse people can be affected in their ability to act spontaneously.

From my perspective I can tell you that it took me years to accept my state, and no longer feel ashamed to tell my friends. I have told women I was interested in, and it wasn't usually something that they particularly appreciated. In most cases we're still friends, one of them is even a particularly close friend now, but their sexual interest ended apparently a minute after me telling them. Usually they don't understand given that I'm usually so very comfortable around women and how they are usually so very comfortable around and attracted to me. The weird thing is that while I desire actual PIV a lot, I'm also still afraid of actually doing it due to the "must be ready" and perfect risk discourse, particularly given that at my age people have usually had a bit of practice (and so I'm demanding of myself to act that way), but I'm not particularly unhappy with my current level of sexuality - say about four extended make out sessions per year after which I'm either to scared to move things on myself, or tell the women about my situation and they back off, as per above.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that - "getting over with it" before "it" stands in the way of your personal psychological and emotional development may be an option to consider. Of course, for some people, not having had sex will not lead to being limited in their options, and maybe that is still easier for women than for men - that's possibly the only advantage of the "slut shaming" discourse. But if you feel that not having done "it" now would limit your future ability to find the kind of relationship you like, or that you would develop a dysfunctional habit to wait for the perfect occasion (like me) in that case, maybe doing it to get it done could be an option.

Just my 2 ct. - all the best with whatever you decide!

[0+] Author Profile Page special_kay replied to jayjay33 :

Just a curious question for my own personal interest (since I fancy someone apparently not having had sex for 8 years now): What would you do, if a women would NOT mind your preposition? And how clear would she have to make it?

[0+] Author Profile Page special_kay replied to special_kay :

I lost my virginity when I was 14/15 (with a girl) and then again with 28 (actual PIV as it seems to be called here).
(and I would like to stress, that these were very different experiences as a whole, since it a male body does feel different, also I did not have sex inbetween - here sex means any kind of physical encounter apart from 2 times I had deliberately half-drunken naked petting with a friend of a friend, who I did not fancy and who I knew was sleeping around anyhow, so that neither of us would be heartbroken).

From a theoretical/emotional perspective I probably sort of regret both times I had proper sex, since I got really hurt both times in the end, in ways that left me very insecure about my (sexual) attractiveness and left me not very self-confident, sexually (maybe one of the reasons, why I did not have more sex inbetween). Funnily enough, I feel less regret (or none at all) about the encounter inbetween, which is I think because, it was more of an adventurous expedition in the lands of sex than any attempt of a relationship at all - The reason why I did not sleep with him (even though he tried to talk me into it and was really freaked out, when the second time round I told him, I was a virgin), was that he just did not really get me off, cause he was not focused in a way and not too carefully/sensual (at one point I thought, oh THIS is really nice, I could go further, but he stopped to asked me, whether I was sure, that I did not want to sleep with him - hahaha, his loss. I thought he just was not really that good in bed actually, well not enough to actually want to me to do it with him "all the way".

I should also probably mention that I am German and even though Germans tend to be more liberal in some ways / nakedness, talking about sex, sex on TV etc. /, dating several people simultaneously or casual relationships are really not common, most people do not start relationships with a "sell-by"-date, at least they commit to try against the odds of moving/or whatever there is in the way. (or maybe that is just me)

Nobody ever would have ever thought I was a virgin or that I did not have sex all the time. But I am really really shy, actually, especially if I really like somebody, I guess it is the same like jayjay above. (also I am really scared, that I will sort of really find it horrible or something or they might find me horrible or unattractive).

I do somehow get the impression, that you are (unlike me or jayjay) confident about your attractiveness/sexuality in general.
THUS FIRSTLY: You do not need to make it now, just to NOT be a virgin anymore, because it is not likely to be in your way (by building up pressure) - (by the way, what does the guy you are seeing thinks about you being a virgin and how did he react?? - should give you some confidence, that it is not completely freaky and guys are ok with it in general - if he is weird, his fault).

The guy I eventually slept with was actually awkward and scared - I was totally relaxed - he was scared about me crying in pain and bleeding and that sort of stuff, but neither of it happen, even though it wasn't world-shaking either: Just much tighter than I had imagined and a little bit rough, but I only bleed a tiny bit when I went to the loo the next day and pressed cause I was constipated. But it only lasted seconds as well, which was very disappointing. The regrets I have are about the relationship as a whole, not the sex ( i do not think it took anything away from the sex I hopefully WILL have with someone in a loving relationship eventually). Also, remember, the story about the guy I did not sleep with - I mean you can also regret that the first time you made out with a male guy was NOT with someone special (not even half-special). But in fact I do not regret it!
THUS SECONDLY: You should not worry about regret.... please think about, what you would/could regret. Maybe you are scared about getting too involved by actually sleeping with this guy and then being heartbroken (well, that would be my motif)?? But apart from that, there should not be much, you could regret, I guess.

[0+] Author Profile Page jayjay33 replied to special_kay :

Hey special_kay,

good question. I guess, for me, the most important thing would be to be reassured that you would not think of me as some kind of weirdo. That you would still consider me attractive *as a man*. That I would not have suddenly become some sort of a-sexual being or, worse, that you would reckon there must be something seriously wrong with me, both for not having done it earlier and for being able to live without "it" for so long. I'd probably need a lot more convincing that other men you may have experienced.

One of the women I recently made out with for hours had apologized to me for having kissed me the night before, as she thought it was a good moment and I just wouldn't go for it. So she later thought I wasn't actually into her, which couldn't have been further from the truth. In her case, she then asked "how we can get me laid tonight" as we were at a party and there were some logistical difficulties, so I said (truthfully, and partly even gratefully) no hurry (which I reckon now was a stupid mistake because she lives in a far away country, is perfect in pretty much every respect, and is probably still enamoured with me to a degree... at least it's easier to be digital friends than digital lovers). If she had asked directly, I would have told her. If that wouldn't have killed her attraction, and she would have said something like - "until tonight you were..." *and* would have lead the dance from that point on, it would have been possible.

I guess the biggest problem is that actual sex has become this huge thing over the years. And the age-thing isn't irrelevant. I'd need to feel that it's ok to suck at it at first like I would have been had I done it as a teenager, but I'm not a teenager anymore... so it's hard to play that expectations game.

And women tend to expect the man to lead the dance, which I do - and that may add to *my* problem - do pretty well upto the point. That's why I think there are obvious advantages to being clumsy and afraid and uncertain when everyone else is clumsy and afraid and uncertain and thus believes it's ok to be clumsy and afraid and uncertain.

The latter, of course, may not be such a problem for your love interest, special_kay, as you say he's just out of touch, not completely inexperienced. Well, of course, I can't say anything with respect to him, but with respect to me, you would likely have to perform the balancing act of communicating both finding me attractive as a man after the disclosure and still taking the lead in everything that follows.

That would mean accepting a certain clumsiness and saying "that's ok" not just with an understanding tone but also with the subtext of "you're still *the man* that I want. And I want you now, and unless you really say this is overwhelming for you, which I will obviously respect, I want to help you get through this not as an act of pity, but because I desire you sexually, as a man, as a person, and because I have the feeling that there is a connection between us that would benefit profoundly from a deepened physical connection. Now kiss me, already."

PS - wrote my reply without having read your additional notes.

[0+] Author Profile Page special_kay replied to jayjay33 :

yeah, from the additional notes it probably would have become clear, that it is not so straightforward for me to take the lead either...

unfortunately I think I do not come across as awfully shy and I have no problems talking about sex in general. It does not help that he knows about this boyfriend I had 2 years ago (probably thinking it was only the last in long row or whatever). I tried somehow demonstratively dropping remarks about my inexperience (but that was more towards committed - parents meeting relationships and I was completely hysterical at the time due to stress), so that I now come across as a freak. ;) anyhow, the problem is I cannot really understand, whether there is a misunderstanding or whether he is actually not interested, but he might be avoiding me now as well (even though I am not so sure, I might be doing the same as well).

>>> is perfect in pretty much every respect, and is probably still enamoured with me to a degree...
(why should she NOT still be enamoured?! - she might only be confused, why you did not want her)

>>>at least it's easier to be digital friends than digital lovers).

Is she gone yet?
What about telling her in emails honestly how you feel - either with or without the full truth... (she might put down you being reluctant towards you to being scared of her leaving perhaps - though of course I cannot speak for her, but I would also totally be reluctant to start off something with somebody before they were leaving - and for some the borderline would lie between making out and sex/PIV..., so they do not want to commit by NOT actually having sex - as mentioned, for Germans it would tend to have more of a significance as in it would actually establish the relationship).
The advantage of digital lovers to digital friends is that lover (should) visit you more frequently and they (at least) kiss you when they do.

also I would like to tell you: Since you are happily enjoying making out for hours, you are more than 90% there!!!!!!! In my opinion at least (which ok might not be the most objective perspective, also somehow thinking more about it, I think it might be easier for me to imagine it, than for you, cause I know, where all the parts are and how it feels for the girl).
But: a guy who is more experience/trained in non-PIV sex is more likely to actually get a girl off!! (As mentioned, the male-slut I made out with twice was not so good, which I put down to him being all about penetration).

Another thing: Did you ever try telling the women just in general that you had not done it in a long time... (you might just say a couple of years - it does not sound that much but might give you just enough "clumsiness" allowance for you to be comfortable).

And, really, I believe there is nothing to be scared off! There are probably clumsier guys out there, clumsier than you - even though they have been "training" for years.

But well, I think, I know how you feel and I wish you the best of luck!

[0+] Author Profile Page jayjay33 replied to special_kay :

special_kay,

"anyhow, the problem is I cannot really understand, whether there is a misunderstanding or whether he is actually not interested, but he might be avoiding me now as well (even though I am not so sure, I might be doing the same as well)."

yeah... the games people play. Everybody hates them, but we still keep playing. Dysfunctional species that we are ;). At least we know we're not alone in our dysfunctionality.

Speaking of not being alone, thanks for your concern regarding my example :)

"(why should she NOT still be enamoured?! - she might only be confused, why you did not want her)"

Ah well, maybe your definition of recent is different from mine. This particular incident was almost a year ago now, it was an extended holiday thing, and she's been with someone since (and she has already broken up with that someone since) so there's no apparent reason why she should still be enamoured with me. But there are little signs, like choice of fb pics, etc. Nothing that is bound to raise questions, but little things that may be signals or not. The games we choose to play ;). I don't think she was confused that I left, that was pretty much understood. But I think we both knew that we could have tried a relationship under different circumstances.

"Is she gone yet? What about telling her in emails honestly how you feel ... The advantage of digital lovers to digital friends is that lover (should) visit you more frequently and they (at least) kiss you when they do."

Well, as I said, that was a couple of months ago, and we did tell each other how we felt, including emails and text messages. And as far literally means half-way around the globe in this case, some digital lovers don't visit more often than digital friends...

"also I would like to tell you: Since you are happily enjoying making out for hours, you are more than 90% there!!!!!!!"

Thanks, I hope that I'll be able to go the rest of the way at some point in the not too distant future :)

"Another thing: Did you ever try telling the women just in general that you had not done it in a long time... (you might just say a couple of years - it does not sound that much but might give you just enough "clumsiness" allowance for you to be comfortable)."

Actually no, I haven't. That's a pretty good idea for a white lie, to be honest. Really, I'll think about this. Seems like something that may help me. Thanks a lot for that idea!

"And, really, I believe there is nothing to be scared off! There are probably clumsier guys out there, clumsier than you - even though they have been "training" for years."

I'm pretty sure that's the case. A lot is probably just me asking too much of myself for no good reason. But it's also a levels of confidence thing: like you said with respect to yourself - you don't come across as a shy person. Me neither. And if you are usually a calm, and confident person, and that is a big part of what women seem to like, that's a pretty big revelation of the opposite, if only in a limited realm. I don't blame them for being confused. I would be, too. But that's the problem I have to solve: picking the right women to share that vulnerable bit if I have to without her forgetting about the calm and confident and attractive rest of me.

"But well, I think, I know how you feel and I wish you the best of luck!"

Thanks, and good luck to you, too!

[0+] Author Profile Page Cute Bruiser said:

I would like to add my voice by saying that my best friend and I are both 24 and both still virgins for various reasons. I don't think there is ANYTHING at all wrong with waiting until you feel you are ready and the moment is right, whatever that means for you.

[0+] Author Profile Page gothicguera said:

I hate to be off topic but I have question I wanted to ask you guys for a very long time. is it weird to want to wait untill marriage? I originally wanted to because I felt that was right(I guess it because of my religion although I don't want to admit it.) now at 19 going to college with different views of my religion and I'm wondering should I wait. I kinda like the idea of having sex with someone I care. But I don't know. ( MY family is VERY liberal and my mom if I ever had sex not to use protection)

thanks! reading you guys comments was very reassuring.

[0+] Author Profile Page Siby replied to gothicguera :

It's not weird. It's perfectly fine, as long as it's something that YOU want to do, and not something that you feel you HAVE to do. It's not a question of whether you "should" or "shouldn't" wait, because either way is a perfectly good and valid option. It's a question of whether you want to or don't want to wait. Good luck.

[0+] Author Profile Page Emal replied to gothicguera :

Not weird at all. Both my husband and I come from very liberal families, and just for kicks we didn't have intercourse until after we got married. Well, I should say we didn't start attempting intercourse until then, it actually took quite a bit of practice to successfully complete the act (first attempt + condom + no lube = NOT good. Eventually we acquired lube.) We had a lot of "outercourse" before we got married, though.

It's not weird to want to wait until marriage. I remember feeling that way as a teenager, despite being an outspoken feminist and atheist at the time. I thought that waiting until marriage would make sex feel special and safe.

However, in retrospect, I think waiting would have been a terrible idea and I'm glad I changed my mind.

I think it's unwise to marry someone you've never had sex with. You just don't know if you'll be compatible.


[0+] Author Profile Page Jenshine said:

I'm 25 and still have not had sex. And I absolutely refuse to call it my "virginity".

I was raised in a RC family as well and that's probably why I'm pushing against the label. It isn't something special that I'll be giving to a man. I find that entire concept offensive. My sexuality is not something I want to be commodified. It is not a gift of my purity that I bestow to the worthy candidate.

I'm not waiting for the right man or the right anyone. I'm not really waiting at all.

this.

[0+] Author Profile Page gothicguera said:

ooops I meant to write "my mom said if I ever had sex to USE protection" may bad.

" My sexuality is not something I want to be commodified. It is not a gift of my purity that I bestow to the worthy candidate. I'm not waiting for the right man or the right anyone. I'm not really waiting at all."
I'm going to make cards with that quote and give it to people who try to hit on me.hehehehe

[0+] Author Profile Page EGhead said:

Most of the comments here seem to be from people who are or were in the same position as you. I'd like to offer a different perspective: I was 15 the first time I had sex of any kind, just over four years ago. It was just about as awful as consensual sex can be-- although, actually, it was statutory rape, so I guess it wasn't fully consensual. I still have flashbacks, and I wish I had waited. I guess my point is this: you may regret waiting, but you'll regret it a whole helluva lot more if you have sex with the wrong person. I don't mean to scare you, and I know that 22 is quite different from 15. I just want you to know that there are worse things than waiting!

[0+] Author Profile Page Tara K. replied to EGhead :

Also to note, however, the idea of a "right" person is very different for folks. For me, it doesn't exist. I've never had to find a "special" or "right" person or a person I had some emotional connection with. (I've had good and bad sex with people who ranged from love of my life to whats-his-name.) For some people I think it's just about the situation of the sex, which sounds like what you're describing. The "right person," to me, is more about who you have a relationship with. That's not to say that everyone should have sex outside of a relationship, but that you can also have casual relationships (ex: those you know won't end in marriage or lifetime commitment) that go on for a while.

That said, I apologize for what you've gone through. I too had sex at 15 with a guy that didn't mean much (well, I thought he was the hottest thing since Gavin Rossdale), but it never bothered me. I hate that you went through something traumatic.

[0+] Author Profile Page kjg said:

I waited to have sex until I was 26. It was with someone I loved and who loved me back. On one hand, it was the best decision. That was my first real relationship and I cannot look back and identify any time before that where I would have been comfortable having sex.

On the other hand, waiting so long made sex a much bigger deal, as a few posters have noted. For me and my partner, the issue of sex became a very serious thing and (for various and sundry reasons) fraught with turmoil. After four years, we broke up and problems related to sex was one of the reasons.

Since then I have dated and have had sex with other partners. For the first time, it has been casual and fun. For years I was so self-conscious about sex, but now I feel completely liberated.

I guess I'm saying that I wish I had been able to approach that serious relationship with more confidence when it came to sex. Experience has given me confidence. As someone else mentioned, early relationships are often "practice" and help us become more aware of what we want, sexually and otherwise. If you have found someone that you feel comfortable and safe with, someone that you trust, then maybe you should go for it? Not to get "it" over with, but to give you more perspective about what you want and like.

Of course, this is just my own perspective and it may not relate at all to what you are thinking and feeling. I agree with Prof Foxy that you should do what feels right. You know yourself best and will make the decision that's right for you. But whether you do choose to have sex now or wait another 10 years, please know that you aren't alone. There are many 20-something feminist virgins in the world.

[0+] Author Profile Page Alessa said:

I completely disagree with Foxy about the whole break in connection makes it safer. I feel like that takes away potential for further meaning, and for me meaning is what really makes sex fantastic. Not ALL the meaning, but a certain potential..

I think sex is something that is so over-the-top talked about that our society makes it a HUGE part of everyone's lives, when in reality for some it really isn't that big of a deal. For others, daily all the time must have it.

Personally, I say wait. Wait only because you'll be able to find the person you are more comfortable with than anyone else in the world. Wait until you find someone you could literally fart in front of, because it enables you to just sit back and enjoy the experience, rather than try to conform to what society tells us we should do when we're in bed. And honestly, wait for someone you love because really, sex is so beautiful when it's an expression of love. That doesn't mean wait until marriage, that means wait until love.

You could have sex outside of real, true love, and it would be fine. Honestly, it probably would be a lot of fun. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing that! Truly, and if that's what you really decide you want then just do it without inhibition! But I have to say that the first person I had sex with is definitely going to be the last, and I feel so blessed for that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having as many partners as you want, but for me this fit perfectly. If you feel this would fit you too, you have that opportunity. It does take a bit of personal reflection though.

It really isn't a big deal though. Rather similar to a huge tampon being stuck in you....

Good luck in your decision!

[0+] Author Profile Page anitasaber replied to Alessa :

I agree with you. While I think that people can have sex no strings attached, I have to agree that it's better when you're with someone you love. I "lost" my virginity this past year to the guy I'm going to marry. I wouldn't have been able to do it if it wasn't a guy I was completely and utterly comfortable with. With him I didn't feel the pressure for my body to look a certain way, or the pressure to 'perform' to a certain standard for my first time, and we were so in tune with each other from doing outercourse that first time sex wasn't this big awkward thing. Of course, anybody can do what they want with who they want, if that means no-strings-attached sex is better. But I don't think Prof Foxy should have given no strings sex as the advice...

[0+] Author Profile Page vegkitty said:

This is totally something I've dealt with, too. Although I'm only 20, being in college and a virgin sometimes makes me feel like a failure. Like L, I started off intending to remain a virgin until marriage (although not for religious reasons... my schools focused on it during Sex Ed, trying to convince the students that having Teh Premarital Sechs would turn us into diseased delinquents... ah, the South). Eventually, I realized that I would rather have sex outside of marriage, but the Right Moment just hasn't happened yet.

For me, a lot of the pressure comes from the media. In movies and on TV shows, it seems like the only way to solidify a relationship is by having sex. Furthermore, the media tends to portray college (and sometimes high school) as this hotbed of sexual activity where no one does anything but have sex all day long. That's far from the truth.

It's taken a lot of time and energy for me to realize that I'm not some freak of nature for NOT having sex by this point. I think that journalists et al. don't seem to realize that their focus on "Hookup Culture" really alienates young adults who don't choose not to have sex (awk wording, sorry), but just haven't had the right person/moment come along.

[0+] Author Profile Page lalalorelai14 said:

It was very weird reading this question for Professor Foxy, because it felt like I could have easily asked the same one!! 22 1/2... yup. Roman Catholic background... oh yeah. My name even starts with L!! The only difference is that my boyfriend and I have been together for almost 3 years and we are moving in together in the fall. I have not had PIV (which is what I mean when I use the word "sex" by the way), although he has had sex with previous partners. I do consider us a fairly sexual couple though, and we too have done "everything else there is to do already."

I guess I've never really considered my virginity as being a feminist problem. Out of my friends from high school, I am the only one still holding to so-called V-card, but a few of my friends from college have decided to wait. I think it's a personal choice, one that all of my friends have made for different reasons. I have encountered some people that act shocked or even a few times appalled ("why would you never want to have sex? do you not like sex? do you not like men?" ummm okaaaaay) that I have not had sex yet.

I never set out to wait for marriage. In fact, when I was in high school I used to say I would lose my virginity when I graduated college, or when I turned 20, or when I turned 21... Then I finally realized that the ABSOLUTE worst reason to have sex with someone is because you want to no longer be a virgin. If you're curious about sex, that's a great reason! If you're ever kissing or etc with someone and want to take it further to see what it's like, then I would say that's great. But because you think it's weird that you're the only one? I do recognize that feeling, but every time that's popped into my head I just sorta told myself that I wouldn't do something else because I was the only one who hasn't done it--I would only do it because I honestly want to.

Honestly I do believe that my Catholic upbringing has a LOT to do with me waiting to have sex. I do not by any means believe that having sex outside of marriage is wrong (by Catholic standards, I have already breached that rule anyway because of the "other" stuff). I also recognize that my own self-diagnosed hypochondria has something to do with it--I once convinced myself I was pregnant, while I was on the pill, while I had never had sex. But the reasons for holding off on sex are just as varied as the reasons for having sex. I do think (although I may be wrong, since I've never made the decision) that this is the kind of decision you should be very sure about before you decide. Some make it more easily than others, but I just think (for me at least) that if there's any bit of uncertainty left, it might be a good idea to wait a little while longer.

But again, this is me. Everyone is different. I'm just glad that there's a place like this where people with varying experiences can share without worrying about being judged :)

[0+] Author Profile Page ceezeebee said:

I waited until I was 24 and had been engaged for 5 months. I had always intended to wait until marriage, but one night I realized I was no longer waiting because it was important to me, I was waiting because I was afraid of what all my church friends would say. At which point I called 2 friends for guidance, talked it over with the man in question for 45 minutes, and went for it. We have our own bizarre form of romance.

I agree that the longer you wait, the bigger deal it becomes. And I agree that you'd be surprised what you'll regret or not. The thing is, there's really no way to be sure you're making the right decision when you walk into this. You can make sure that you're married, or that you love the other person, or that you'll never see the other person again so you don't have to be embarrassed, or whatever your own personal requirement is, but THERE IS NO WAY TO BE SURE. So don't sweat it. Just like accepting a job, or ordering something off a menu, or agreeing to go on a date, there is no way to be sure from the start that it's the right choice. You just have to be sure as you can, and then commit. If it turns out to have been the wrong decision, well, that happens sometimes, but that's life. Sex isn't magical enough that it's exempt from mistakes.

Having sex for the first time can be a risk. If you decide that it's worth it, then go for it. If not, there's no harm in waiting, and no shame in being a 25 (or 30 or 80 or whatever) year old virgin. Feminism doesn't require you to be sexual. Feminism only demands that you make your own choice about it.

Something that worries me about your post is that the main reasons you state for thinking of having sex have to do with your environment - that it's weird to still be a virgin at 22, that all your friends have done it, that feminist discourse encourages you to have sex. And that kind of thing should be irrelevant in your decision. You should have sex when you want to and feel ready, whether that's tomorrow, in ten years' time or never. Frankly, I'm worried that you're feeling pressured, and that's not a good state to be in when making this kind of decision.

I'm coming at this from a different place than most comments - I'm twenty-three, have not had sex and don't plan to ever do so as I'm asexual. And if that's weird, I'll be so with pride! Given that background, there's also one thing I'd like to say about this part of your post:

as a feminist and a student of women's studies, I'm very much surrounded by writing and thinking that advocates women to take charge of their sexuality and be sexual and have sex if they want to

As an asexual, I've had some bitter experiences regarding this kind of environment. Although I firmly believe in the ideals of sex-positivism, in practice the way people construct it can wind up putting pressure on people to be sexual and painting people who don't want to have sex as immature or repressed. There's often an undercurrent running through it that sexual empowerment = having sex, and I'd urge you to be careful of that. Fact is, taking charge of your sexuality means not having sex if you don't want to just as much as having sex if you do want to. Not having sex (for whatever amount of time) can be just as valid a form of sexual empowerment as any sexual activity you get up to. Which is not to say that you shouldn't have sex - if you decide you want to, great! I hope you enjoy it! Just don't let yourself get pressured into it, and don't believe that because you're in a feminist environment it must necessarily be free of such pressure.

[0+] Author Profile Page Cicada Nymph replied to Zailyn :

I agree with you. L seemed more like she felt like she should have sex because of cultural pressures and the worry that there may not be a main partner in the near future and less like she actually wanted to. The fact that she is so undecided says a lot too. I think is she really wanted to have sex she would, well, really want to have sex.

please do not worry about it being strange and unusual! you might find it funny that i'm 22, too and i worry that i haven't dated enough people! even though i've had sex before, i've only dated one person, and it's been years since that ended. you're worried that it's strange that you haven't had sex, but we all worry about something that makes us "unusual." you are YOU. whenever you decide to have sex, whenever relationships come along, or whenever these things don't happen, it's what makes you YOU. it NEVER does us good to compare ourselves to others. we all have our own timelines that to some extent we have control over and to some extent we don't.

anyway, try listening to what your urges are telling you, not what everyone else is doing or has done. that's my two cents of advice.

[0+] Author Profile Page hindeviola said:

I wanted to say something about the 'specialness' of having sex for the first time. I did it when I was 20, and at the time I was very excited/nervous/etc... I thought of it as a big step, and all my friends had already done it, so I felt a bit behind the times. However, like many other posters, I felt very much like "was that.. it?" afterward. In hindsight, it wasn't having sex for the first time that stands out as a memorable experience in my sexual development, but rather having an orgasm with a partner for the first time. Now THAT is an afternoon I remember well, and it wasn't even during PIV sex - it was a handjob! But I still think of it as an incredibly special and almost sacred sexual experience. My point is that it's not the deed itself that, for me, was a big deal in the long run. Rather, it was the sexuality combined with emotional intimacy and shared pleasure that I cherish now.

In response to the OP - I think you should do it if you're curious and feel mostly ready to do it - I don't think anyone ever feels completely prepared.. (how can you?) Don't do it to catch up, though. There's no point in that. If you have sex, do it as the beginning of a process of sexual growth that will last your entire life. Understand that it only gets better, and also that not all sex has to be life-changing.. most of it isn't. Take your time, enjoy yourself, and have fun! Like most things, it's quality, not quantity!

[0+] Author Profile Page Tara K. replied to hindeviola :

Totally agree. The most "special" sex of my life was the best sex, and when I had sex with my partner for the first time. I don't think you can get to the good sex for a little while, really.

Also, I think most women orgasm via hand stimulation for the first time.

I was 22 before I had any kind of sexual activity, and I, too, felt like the last virgin on the planet. I wasn't. You're not. Trust yourself and you'll be fine.

Seriously, it matters exactly zilch whether you're "normal" or not. What matters is whether or not you feel ready, and feel like you're with the right person.

It doesn't have to be love, but if you want to be in love first, wait for that. For myself, I'm really glad I wound up just having sex with a friend I trusted when it came to the first time. It was low-pressure and fun. Overall, though, I'm not a fan of casual sex; the first time I had sex with someone I was actually in love with, it was mind-blowing. Not because the actual physical sensation was exceptional (we'd done enough already that he knew my body and responses well, and he was very willing to do what I needed him to in order to enjoy myself, but I'd had other partners who were good that way before) but because I felt connected and happy to be there with him, and there was lovey snuggling afterward.

Anyway, basically . . . casual sex is fun. Lovey sex is fun. One comes with strings attached and the other doesn't. For me, which one I want very much depends on where I'm at in that particular time in my life. If you want it both on a physical and emotional level (and the emotional can be either "I'm madly in love" or simply "I feel ready to do this and I want to explore it") then go for it. If one of those isn't in place, run away! Avoid! Avoid! Wait for something you feel will be a positive experience. :)

[0+] Author Profile Page Toni said:

L, you're not the only one. I'm also 22 and a virgin. In my case it's because I'm not very social and haven't really dated.

My advice, which is worth twice what you're paying for it, is that if you feel a need to ask somebody else whether you should or shouldn't do this thing, don't do it. An easy way to know when the time is right is, when even if somebody were to advise you not to do it, you'd still go ahead and do it anyway.

This is a good piece of advice about SO MANY things in life!

[0+] Author Profile Page butterflywings said:

jayjay33, I didn't mean to make you feel bad by posting that checklist.

It isn't meant to be exhaustive. It does say:
'Realistically, even most adults will not check every single thing on this list.'

That said, I think it's pretty sensible, and anyone who can't tick most of the items probably *shouldn't* be having sex, for their own physical and mental health.

But I agree that waiting for the 'perfect' time is not healthy, and that was what I was saying to L.

(Also agree with others that PIV sex is not the only or 'real' sex, which the article also points out. It is, however, most likely to lead to pregnancy, STIs etc.)

[0+] Author Profile Page defrick86 said:

You are not weird at all. I didn't lose mine until I was 21, when it felt right to do for myself. Really in the end it is what feels right for you.

[0+] Author Profile Page Doug S. said:

Is it weird to be a 26-year-old male and not to have had a first kiss yet? :(

[0+] Author Profile Page AllyB said:

I have nothing substantive to add to the many great comments here, except that I was in my early 30s before I had (penetrative vaginal) sex.

Partly that was because I wound up in a long-term relationship with someone who had erectile/performance issues--but even had that not been the case, I would have been 25 or 26 before I had sex. And lots of my feminist friends were 23, 24, 25.

It was no big deal when it eventually happened with a subsequent BF, though I'm happy it was with someone I cared about. And looking back (it's now been a couple of years), I wouldn't even say that he was my "first," in any way that matters, since I'd been sexually intimate for years, and with a number of men, before him.

Those who are most important to our love lives--to our sexual growth and self-confidence--aren't those we do certain, specified acts with.

I'm late to this thread, but let me add that I lost mine when I was 23 to someone I was casually dating at the time. I'd grown tired of waiting for Mr. Right and just wanted to get it over with.

He was pretty surprised to find out I was a virgin - and I can't say he was all that happy about it. It was all pretty bad, not because it hurt or anything. Just because it was awkward and I didn't really know him and he was expecting someone more experienced.

But I don't regret it at all. I just wanted to demystify it and not make it such a big deal in my life. No regrets, except I wish I'd done it waaaay sooner.

I'm making a doc on virginity and also write blog on the subject. If anyone is interested in contributing your story, or just interested in checking it out, it's called The American Virgin. theamericanvirgin.blogspot.com.

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