Chris Brown Pleads Guilty to Assault Charges.
Remember the Chris Brown/Rihanna drama? Well, Brown reached a plea deal admitting that he assaulted girlfriend Rihanna with the intent to do "great bodily harm."
Under terms of the agreement, Brown will serve five years of probation and must serve 180 days in jail or the equivalent -- about 1,400 hours -- in "labor-oriented service," said Sandi Gibbons, spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office. He must also undergo a year-long domestic-violence counseling class, she said.Brown's sentence is comparable to other felony sentences when the defendant has no previous record, she said.
I think it is good that he at least plead guilty to one charge of assault but I am still conflicted on the long-term effectiveness of the sentence.
Thoughts?
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I'm happy, for lack of a better word that at least he plead guilty. A least it will be known to those who denied or ridiculed that he did in fact commit a horrendous crime against Rhianna. I'm hoping that the 1 yr domestic violence course will instill some sense into him and some respect and sympathy for the women who have to endure this kind of violence daily. I am really unsure whether he should have served jail time, somewhere in my mind i do feel that maybe he has gotten off too easy, i don't know. But at least something has been done to validate and justify Rhianna's right to peace, and dignity, and bodily integrity and the right to have a life without violence inflicted upon her.
i'm torn. A part of me wants to, for once, see a famous person NOT get away with a slap on the wrist. However, I realize that if Brown wasn't famous there's a very high chance he would have been thrown in jail because he's a young black man and that isn't fair either. I also am a big advocator of intensive therapy vs. prison sentences as I don't think they generally solve anything.
I have the same conflict.
I am glad he plead guilty. I doubt he feels guilty. I know his celebrity helped him a lot in not going to jail. However, I can't help but wonder what would've happened if he was just an unknown young black male.
This isn't to take away from the fact that Rihanna is the real victim here, but black men don't do well in the system whether guilty or not.
I also agree with the comments on counseling, therapy, and rehabilitation vs. our prison system. I really hope he learns & believes what he did was beyond wrong.
This actually really upsets me.
Five years ago I was the victim of dating violence and was nearly killed. My abuser was given the same sentence as Chris Brown, and he went on to abuse more people.
I think these things should be taken a bit more seriously. I don't think anyone involved, especially the victim, is ever aware of how serious this kind of violence is. It should never be acceptable for anyone to beat anyone else like this, but domestic abuse is so prominent, and sooo overlooked.
Also, this case is pretty high profile. I don't think it's being handled responsibly.
I'm glad he pleaded guilty, but something tells me it wasn't because he knows the weight of his actions. And I don't think he'll learn it by picking up garbage.
weak.
Every abuser is different. Some change. I speak from experience. My father was one.
One other thing that the CNN article says that there has been a restraining order-like thing placed on Brown against Rihanna. He is required to stay 100 yards away from her. I think that this is an acceptable sentence. But Rihanna doesn't want it.
I am not about to blame the victim of anything. There is no excuse for what Chris Brown did. But Rihanna's reaction to the whole situation is still very disconcerting to me. Because she is so influential, especially to young girls, her reaction to the "restraining order" is still teaching these girls that domestic violence is ok and a normal part of a relationship.
according to the same article:
Rihanna's attorney, Donald Etra, said Rihanna made the request because she felt that a protective order in place, requiring that Brown not annoy or harass her, was sufficient.
I don't really see why we need to be disconcerted here. I think we also need to be careful of how things are framed in the media. Remember the rumors that they got engaged right after the assault?
I think the media went a bit out of its way to try to make Rihanna out to be a fool. Not so fast.
And it's really not up to Rihanna to teach anybody anything especially when she's still in the shit. Many celebrities who've faced abuse took decades before they were able to be in a place of "teaching". People rarely just wake up the next day and decide that they are ready to carry the world on their shoulders.
Why are you excusing her? Why do you have higher criteria for him then her? He is supposed to wake up tomorrow and no longer be an idiot, but she needs to take decades to wisen up? That means you find her less capable.
Do you believe women are somehow inferior or something? Do you believe women are incapable of taking responsibility on their shoulders?
As an example to boys: Chris Brown should be punished super-hard, like SUPER-hard, much harder than the average offender, just to make a famous example of him.
As an example to girls: Rihanna shouldn't be seen anywhere near a known abuser.
Currently the message is: Offenders get away with it, and girls desperately go back with them.
I cannot claim to be happy at all with this outcome. I'm pissed.
"Brown's sentence is comparable to other felony sentences when the defendant has no previous record, she said."
This is the part that pissed me off. He should be in jail. And the reason for light sentence wasn't because he was a celebrity it was because domestic violence crimes are not taken seriously in this fucking country. The laws on the books are a fucking joke and it pisses me off. The fact that no jail time is the norm for this kind of brutal beating is beyond upsetting. But sure, picking up trash on the highway will sure set him straight!
I want to take some comfort in the fact that he admitted what he did here but I can't. I'm too upset. What is the incentive to turn your abuser in to the police when he has no chance of going to jail for his crimes? Oh, a stay-away order? Restraining order? We all know how effective those are! Sorry, I'm just too upset right now.
I am incredibly glad he plead guilty. I am glad he is going to a year long course.
I am not sure that I can wish jail time on him, and I feel complicated about that. On the one hand, what he did is seriously fucked up. On the other hand, I am not sure I can support anyone going to jail. Jail has nothing to do with anything except punishment and capitalism. I think the year long course is much more effective if the aim is to get him to stop beating people up.
I am frustrated and angry with how he is staying in the public eye largely unscathed. It reminds me of how Justin Timberlake got away with pulling off Janet Jackson's shirt but Janet Jackson took a huge hit for that. Systems of misogyny that allow men to get away with this kind of behavior are so so so wrong. It makes me curious, legally, about the difference between domestic violence cases and other cases of assault. I don't know if there is one. The issue with domestic violence is power + privilege, right, not unlike hate crimes. Is this reflected in case law? I am honestly not sure.
The thing is, though, that even though that is the case I am not sure I want Chris Brown to go to jail. I want him to have to reckon with what he did. I want him to be shunned and scorned. I want him to be unable to get a date for years and years. But do I want him to go through a "justice" system that in any other circumstance I would decry? I'm not sure.
unfortunately, abusers have a really really high rate of recidivism. Counseling almost never works. These (usually) men have deep seated narcissistic control issues and don't ever think they did anything wrong. And they are usually very charming and adept liars, so they are able to lure women into violent relationships again and again. I don't know what the solution is, but counseling isn't going to work. I personally would rather they go into a mental institution until it is shown they have recovered.
I think your analysis of Batterer intervention programs (DV counseling for offenders) is flawed. Those programs don't work 100%, but they do lower recidivism rates of offenders who complete the program. The programs don't work on everyone, but they do make an impact. One study showed that recidivism w/o the program was 55% and after completion was 32%. So, they aren't hugely successful, but they do have an impact that is very meaningful to the potential victims of those abusers.
Can you point me in the direction of that study? I've worked in the DV field for several years and have heard and read quite the opposite- almost no improvement. I'd also be curious to know what the completion rate is.
I did some research to find the stats you're quoting, but I couldn't find those exact numbers. I'm not ragging on you, I just want to bring more facts to the discussion.
I did find stats quoted by the American Bar Association. http://www.abanet.org/domviol/statistics.html#recidivism
study found here: http://www.courtinnovation.org/_uploads/documents/predictorsbronxdv.pdf
According to a 2004 study, about 60-67% of batterers don't even COMPLETE their court-ordered counseling session. With no legal repercussions. Of those that were referred (both who did and did not attend) 62% were arrested again for DV.
"Instead, what is most remarkable is the consistently high rate of recidivism for the sample as a whole, across all periods examined."
And to give you an idea of even how THAT is a flawed measure, keep in mind that this does not even count the times they beat their partner and threatened them NOT to call the police, or the police were called and the batterer threatened the victim, and the victim recanted, or the victim decided not to call the police because it would be safer for her not to, or she couldn't get to a phone, or the batterer apologized and promised once again never to let it happen again....
and lastly, the men that were simply sent to prison? It's hard to compare those to mandated-intervention batterers, because those sent to prison generally have a an arrest record or were convicted of much more serious crimes. But their recidivism rate was 78%.
It's scary.
There's no sentence that would truly satisfy me: the whole situation was devastating enough, and Brown's reaction (or lack thereof), along with the reaction of the hip-hop community at large, was not what it should have been. Very little remorse was shown, and stars like Kanye West insisted we should "give Chris Brown a break".
Yeah, I don't think so.
The one good thing that has come out of this incident was a wider conversation about domestic abuse. Were I a judge, I would sentence Brown to time in a mental institution to truly sort out what possessed him to beat Rihanna.
Wow, I didn't know Kanye said that; I'm starting to think he's a little neurotic, and perhaps is going down a 'messed up in the head' path or something, because just 17 days before Reuters reported he said that, he said:
"I was completely devastated by the concept of what I heard," Kanye West told Ryan Seacrest Tuesday morning (February 10) during a radio interview. West said he was so upset by the news that even affected him during his performance of "American Boy" at the Grammy Awards on Sunday.
"I was completey devastated during the performance," he said. "All I will say is it's so devastating. I feel like, just as a person, I don't care how famous she is, or even if she worked at McDonald's, that should have never happened. It should have never come to that place."
which is actually a good quote on Rihanna's behalf. I just don't know about him anymore. I used to like him, when he first came out. Now he just seems to like to be controversial, no matter what it is.
But to hearing that Chris Brown is getting no jail time, I was very disappointed. I understand that the counseling will be more effective than jail time, but I am also concerned about what this sentence says about those who will physically attack a woman or partner; most people are going to see it as "he got off" or got off easy, not that he got a sentence where he might actually learn something. They (general population) see counseling as not as harsh as jail time. This sends the complete wrong message to abusers -- and victims. If someone is truly fearing for their life and they think about leaving, and then they think about how Brown is still walking around with only a restraining order, no jail time...well, I don't think that helps them feel confident about leaving.
There are good things about guilty pleas. It came out of Chris Brown's own mouth that he was guilty. I'm sure it was a tactical decision, not a remorseful one, but he fucking said he was guilty. Good. It also didn't waste limited court resources when it was blatantly clear that he was guilty. It also dodged the potential bullet of a jury acquitting him because they believe Rhianna deserved it, asked for it, brought it on, etc. etc. etc. And now she doesn't have to relive the crime by testifying, which the paparazzi would have a field day with in their usual grotesque fashion.
The sentence doesn't feel like it fits the crime though, does it? The question is, what CAN and SHOULD be done? Would jail time fix anything? Will counseling? What will? Do we merely want to punish, or do we want to rehab him so that he never hits anyone again? And is it even possible to do that? If it's not, is it appropriate to lock him away? I know that at least some feminists are against jail time for anyone, which is why I ask. I'm not of that opinion myself, although I am at a total loss for what to do with someone in this situation.
When I was in college a friend of an acquaintance of my roommate went on an unprovoked rampage in my house and assaulted several people. I got hit in the face and head a few times and a couple other people got roughed up, but fortunately at the end of it all no one had any serious injuries. It was his first offense and he served 19 months in state prison (not a county jail, the state penitentiary). This was not a person who I had an intimate relationship with. He wasn't a person who I loved and should have been able to trust not to hurt me. Although it was a scary situation, we were not hospitalized like Rihanna nor were we left with the emotional damage of being betrayed by someone we love.
I don't know if a long jail or prison sentence would have been the right response in this case. But it's crazy that a man who has no problem severely beating the woman he supposedly loves and no problem allowing her to feel terrorized in their relationship doesn't even have to set foot in jail. I'm torn because I believe people have a tendency to come out of prison worse and they typically do nothing to rehabilitate. On the other hand, this reinforces the message that domestic violence is not really that big of a deal. Or that it's a "private matter."
Actually, on second thought, I'm not that torn. If Chris Brown had done this to any other person on the street, he would be in jail. The fact that he is not confirms that our culture and legal system do treat domestic violence as a private matter or a relationship "issue". The exact same attack against anyone else would have meant a jail sentence but because it was within the confines of a relationship we treat it differently.
I'm glad it's over and I'm happy nobody went to jail and I wish them both well in the future. And no I don't think they're over because her lawyer said she wasn't happy with the separation order. look for it to be appealed. To me this was about these two people, not an "issue" and the peepshow was smarmy.
Are you serious? You really think a celebrity beating the crap out of his celebrity girlfriend has no implications for anyone else? And has nothing to do with domestic abuse as a societal problem?
Have you lost all powers of perception and the capacity for logical analysis?
Well, honestly, this is a pretty decent sentence, speaking from a legal perspective. The system and jails are so overcrowded (a whole other discussion) that most don't even get this much of a sentence, let alone actually have to serve it (as I'm sure the media will check to see if he does). Just like with Paris Hilton, celebrities often get treated worse because lay people don't know the reality of how only about 10% of sentences are actually served in LA, so when they hear a sentence, they think a celebrity serving anything less is getting off easy due to their fame. Paris served more than any person off the street would for the same offense. Similarly, I'm assuming Chris will have to serve the entire sentence, since it's so public, while most people convicted of a crime will not.
I'm uncomfortable with your description of partner abuse as "drama."
I'm glad to see a sentence that includes counseling. I've been keeping my eye on this case since it first broke. I wrote my undergrad thesis on the way that the assault was talked about on blogging and online gossip sites. It continues to be an interesting, illuminating, and upsetting discussion.
i have a complicated relationship with the justice system, so i'm not sure how i feel about the jail time. i hope he does the community service bit for anti-violence work.
and i'm by no means knocking batterers intervention programs, and i'm sure they do decrease recidivism, but i would argue that they would do that after LONGER periods of time. Studies have shown that it takes YEARS for abusers to really realize the impact of their behavior and begin to change it. so one year is something, but it's certainly not long enough.
Who is to pay for all of this. Those are grown men. They should realize what they did wrong without years of therapy and counseling.
And if they dont they end up in jail again, end of story.
DV is different than most crimes. These (usually) men almost never even THINK they did anything wrong. They have serious, deep seated issues and as i mentioned above, have a REALLY high rate of recidivism. I think they do need to stay in mental health facilities for a long time. Who pays for it? the community, like we pay for other things that are a danger to society. Congress has found that the economic impact of domestic violence amounted to approximately $34 billion. And I don't think victims who are beaten or killed should have to wait for these men to "learn their lesson".
The Anglo system is pretty random it seems. Mary Winkler shot her husband in his sleep, got time served and a month in a mental health facility.
That a celebrity got a slap on the wrist for a serious crime is hardly new or shocking.
I saw some news show wherein the tall blonde guy commentator said merrily, "It's not like this is gonna impact his record sales!"
The perky bleached blonde woman commentator said, "Well, maybe it will!" but she sounded pretty desperate, like she didn't mean it.
I am sick to my stomach.
I saw some news show wherein the tall blonde guy commentator said merrily, "It's not like this is gonna impact his record sales!"
The perky bleached blonde woman commentator said, "Well, maybe it will!" but she sounded pretty desperate, like she didn't mean it.
I am sick to my stomach.
"Chris Brown/Rihanna drama" seems maybe not the best way of describing a physical assault case to me.