This weekly Saturday column "Ask Professor Foxy" will regularly contain sexually explicit material. This material is likely not safe for work viewing. The title of the column will include the major topic of the post, so please read the topic when deciding whether or not to read the entire column.
Hi Professor Foxy,
I have been having some major issues with monogamy lately. I have been dating my boyfriend (I am a woman) for 3 and half years, and for most of that time we've been very happy with an amazing sex life! I've always had trouble when it comes to monogamy, though, and I've had to work very hard to resist the temptation to cheat. For the past few months, however, these feelings have gotten much stronger. I've started to feel very sexually stifled by my relationship, and I've started having really strong sexual desires for other people. These attractions range from close friends and coworkers to strangers I meet in a bar. Also, I've always considered myself somewhat bisexual, and I have become increasingly eager to explore that side of my sexuality. As much as I hate to admit this, I have even reached the point where I slipped up and kissed a guy I met at a party. Because of all this, I have had a really hard time enjoying sex with my boyfriend, because I am constantly fantasizing that he is someone else.
Despite all this, I still really love my boyfriend and we're really happy outside of the bedroom. We have openly talked about these issues. We have tried to spice up our sex life, and he has proposed that we try to find partners for a threesome or foursome. These are things I would like to try, but I don't see them as the solution. I'm at a point in my life right now--my early 20s--where I want some freedom to explore my desires and have some fun. But my boyfriend is strongly opposed to taking some time apart to see other people because he thinks it will really harm our relationship. I guess I'm just wondering, if I've always had issues with monogamy, do you think that will ever change? Is it worth potentially destroying an otherwise wonderful, loving relationship to have these sexual experiences? Or should I just suck it up and try to enjoy myself through fantasies?
Thanks for your help,
Sexually Stifled
Hi Sexually Stifled -
Thanks for writing in. You are clearly torn about your desire to maintain this relationship and your desire to be sexually involved with more than just your boyfriend.
Let's talk a little bit about nonmonogamy. Nonmonogamous relationships in all of their iterations (more about this in a minute) are just as valid and functional and workable as monogamous ones. The media and society really only portray monogamous relationships as valid and as soon as one person in a monogamous relationship begins to look at other people (GASP), the relationship is headed for doom. In reality, strong nonmonogamous relationships are much like strong monogamous relationships. The people involved talk about their feelings, their boundaries, and where they want the relationship to go.
It is also important to realize that there is a really wide range of nonmonogamous relationships. Some involve just the occasional kissing outside of the primary relationship, some just sex, and still others are polyamorous (many loves) and involve multiple relationships and lovers.
Now back to your situation, in this present relationship your boyfriend is really trying to accommodate your needs and desires. He gets big points for that. But I sense a real either/or in your letter "Is it worth potentially destroying an otherwise wonderful, loving relationship to have these sexual experiences?" You are pre-assuming destroying the relationship. Since you two are clearly having some good conversations about this situation, why not ask him about the possibility of opening up the relationship a little bit more. Not just for you, but for him as well.
You can keep your relationship as the primary and central relationship, but have sexual experiences with other people. Start off slow - maybe limiting it to kissing strangers at bars. See how that feels for both of you. You may love hooking up with others, but if he is engaging in the same behaviors: how do you handle it? Keep it there for a month or more, then see how it feels to ramping it up a little more: maybe making out without penetration of any sort (no oral, anal or vaginal sex or fingers into orifices).
You should make sure to discuss what I think of as a checklist for nonmonogamy:
1. What time and spaces are just for the two of you? For example, no kissing other people at family functions. Can other lovers come into your bed or do you have to go to a neutral space?
2. What behaviors are off limit? People in nonmonogamous or polyamorous relationships often reserve certain activities just for the primary relationship. These are not just sexual activities. A married heterosexual couple I know who are poly only hold hands with each other. Holding hands feels really intimate to them and they reserve that for one another.
3. What people are off limits? Can you hook up with friends? Just strangers?
4. What about sexual safety? Many, many poly people do not exchange bodily fluids outside of their primary relationships. Barrier methods are paramount here.
5. What must you tell other sexual interests? Do you tell other people you hook up with that you have a primary relationship and that needs to be respected?
6. What details do you share with each other? What do you tell each other after you hook up with some one else? This may actually become a turn on over time. Jealousy is normal and natural and should not be a deal killer, but rather something to be talked and worked through.
7. How do you honor your relationship? This is so, so important. After you hook up with someone else, what do you do to reconnect as a couple? Do you have dinner just the two of you? Do you cuddle for an hour? This step can be the most relevant to keeping your relationship healthy and strong. The other person needs to feel loved and cared for.
While this list may seem a little exhausting (and I am sure readers can suggest other things to think about), how much better would all relationships be (monogamous and not) if we took the time to talk these things out? Even monogamous people flirt with others, desire others and should talk to their partners about it. I would suggest reading the Ethical Slut by Dossie Easton and Catherin Liszt. It delves into these issues in a clear, easy to understand way.
Here is the other issue. Right now, you have already broken the boundaries of your monogamous relationship. You need to determine whether or not to tell him. I lean towards yes. If you want to be able to talk about opening up your relationship, trust and honesty are necessary and you need to re-establish that after you tell him.
Monogamy may just not be for you. You need to seriously think if you want to or can be monogamous. Fantasizing about someone else during sex is not necessarily a problem, but clearly it is for you. Your desires are increasing, not decreasing. Being a nonmonogamous or polyamorous person may be the healthiest way for you to be true to who you are.
Best,
Professor Foxy
If you have a question for Professor Foxy, send it to ProfessorFoxyATfeministingDOTcom.
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You're awesome, Professor Foxy. Your column is my favorite part of Feministing (which is saying a lot, as I love this site), and was a welcome addition.
Sexually Stifled, I would only add that once you have had all of that communication, you may want to consider trying those threesomes and foursomes, exploring your bisexual desires and desires for another man in front of him. While that definitely will probably be scary, if you look at as an adventure that the two of you are having together, and you do little things like give each other a pep talk while holding each other before it starts, and every once in awhile during making sure that you pause focusing on what you're doing with the other partner and go back to him mentally and emotionally by something small like making good caring eye contact or a small touch, that really might work too. not as a solution, but in one part of your exploration of what you need.
Good luck, post a community diary, let us know how it goes :)
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Many, possibly most, of the people who read this blog don't subscribe to the traditional Judeo-Christian ideas about Heaven and the devil.
Calling people names for having different ideas than yours and for making choices you wouldn't make is unacceptable in a feminist space. You are being extremely offensive.
Interesting post, and I appreciate the detailed nature of your suggestions. Part of me would like to respond at length. But I'll limit myself to one extended question.
What evidence do you have for the following statement: "Nonmonogamous relationships in all of their iterations are just as ... functional and workable as monogamous ones"?
In your paragraph, you argue for this assertion mainly by setting up a false dichotomy. Either, you imply, one thinks that non-monogamous relationships are just as workable and functional as their monogamous counterparts OR one stands with "the media and society" and thinks even the slightest wayward eye means that "the relationship is headed for doom."
Are those really the only options and attitudes?
More to the point, are non-monogamous relationships really as functional and workable? Are they really as likely to "work" (however you define "working")? And does this functional equivalence really apply to ALL forms of non-monogamy?
Please note that I am not saying that such relationships cannot function. I am not saying that they don't (often) work. And I am especially not talking about these relationships' possible moral equivalence.
I am looking for some empirical evidence for your empirical claim. I am asking about the different (possibly greater) challenges to such relationships -- the challenges to their being able to work and function.
Clearly, I suspect that non-monogamous relationships are more challenging -- are more difficult to make function and work. Indeed, it would seem that your non-exhaustive (but very exhausting) list of rules and regulations for non-monogamy supports my intuitions and belies your assertions.
But I would be curious to see data to the contrary.
I don't know about the data, but I think that the reason that a lot of non-monogamous relationships DON'T work is because of lack of communication between partners and cheating. If you take a relationship where all partners are very open and communicate a lot with each other, and one that everyone knows what's going on, then I would say that this relationship is just as "functional" as a monogamous relationship.
More to the point, are non-monogamous relationships really as functional and workable? Are they really as likely to "work" (however you define "working")? And does this functional equivalence really apply to ALL forms of non-monogamy?
Please note that I am not saying that such relationships cannot function. I am not saying that they don't (often) work.
An analogy that I like to use is that a relationship is like a machine - the more moving parts you ad on to it, the more chance there is for one to break down and require major repair, or need to be taken out for everyone's benefit.
I think poly relationships are less stable, more difficult, and that monogamous relationships are easier for all involved most of the time.
That sad, I'd rather be me and be poly. But it requires more work, more relying on all partners to be sane with each other, myself, and all of the types of interactions we have. There's more of a danger of a partner's partner pulling the plug which is a danger you don't get in monogamy. From my perspective, I don't want situations where I'm not friends with a partner's partner.
But I'm trying to build something stable and long term. If I'm off on a hook-up call, it's less of a big deal. Not that this happens often. I'm not a wild swinger type who has sex all the damn time.
Getting back to the original question to Profesor Foxy, I think one thing was skipped or lightly passed - polyamorous people still cheat. They can still violate rules just for a quick roll in the hay. If you have strong desires to cheat, don't expect poly to cure them for you.
"Getting back to the original question to Profesor Foxy, I think one thing was skipped or lightly passed - polyamorous people still cheat. They can still violate rules just for a quick roll in the hay. If you have strong desires to cheat, don't expect poly to cure them for you."
That's actually a good and interesting point I hadn't considered.
And here I was fuming at Foxy for a different reason - she completely fails to take into account that Stifled's boyfriend might actually want a monogamous relationship, not have the difficulty with monogamy his girlfriend has, and not be willing to be in a fully polyamorous relationship. I find Foxy's advice to Stifled completely unfair to him.
You claim that nonmonogamous relationships don't *often* work. I'm not sure what you are basing that on. Not to throw the question back at you, but do YOU have any actual studies? I've seen a complete lack of studies on nonmonogamous relationships, so I'm not quite sure how you're able to claim that they "most often don't work."
It's anecdotal, but as a polyamorous person, I've seen plenty of poly relationships work. I think part of your conception that they often don't work might be based on the fact that poly people are usually incredibly quiet about the relationships that they have and are happy with...and it's only when the occasional thing goes very wrong that people in the mainstream notice.
I think your question about what defines a "working" relationship is a very good one, and gets to the heart of the matter. For many poly people, what defines "working" isn't how long you stay with the person, if you stay married to your primary for x amount of years, or whether jealousy never crosses your path. For many, it's more about the quality of the relationship you had with partners while you were with them and the terms you leave on.
This fluidity of relationships sometimes comes at odds with some monogamists' perceptions of a "working relationship" as being one that lasts as long as possible, rather than ending when it needs to. A perfectly working polyamorous relationship with everyone involved being happy may still be seen as "not working" and "dysfunctional" by some people who are monogamous.
You find the issues that Prof. Foxy lists as "exhausting"? It's really not. Most of those issues are covered pretty quickly. They're just not questions people are used to asking in a traditionally monogamous society. Frankly, I find monogamous-specific questions, rules, and issues just as complex and "exhausting,"
I think you may have misread peter's post. The quote was: "I am not saying that they don't (often) work."
Ahhh....okay. Strike the first paragraph or so then. I think what constitutes a "working relationship" is a good question.
And to add the the "exhausting" list comment...I'm not sure how providing a list of nonmono concerns belies her point. Monogamous people have an equally long list with questions about appropriate behaviors with friends, who can look at what women/men, and equally complicated questions mostly concerned with competitiveness. No relationship dynamic won't have a set of complex issues like the ones Professor Foxy brought up.
I agree with Prof Foxy's advice about nonmonogamy and I think it's great that she pointed out that open relationships can be healthy and fulfilling. However her advice seems to assume that the OP's boyfriend would be ok with nonmonogamy. From the limited information we get from this post I'm not entirely sure that this is the case. Yes, he said he would be open to a threesome, but that is definitely not the same as being open to your partner having sexual experiences with other people when you're not around.
Prof Foxy didn't even touch on what might happen if this turns out to be a monogamous person dating a nonmonagamous person. And I think that's really what the OP is concerned about.
I think this is an important point. If the person the OP is dating is on the monogamous side of the spectrum I think the poster should be aware that these conversations and actions could end the relationship. But, if she feels that she would be better suited in a non-monogamous relationship or that more sexual experiences are what are important to her in a relationship then she should bring this up with her boyfriend with the awareness that he may not share her views on open relationships.
But, if she feels a non-monogamous relationship truly cannot work for her and that these sexual experiences outweigh the dynamic of the current relationship then it's probably better to find out now rather than later if her boyfriend is on the same page or this relationship could become detrimental for both parties.
I totally agree. Better to find out early and communicate clearly.
Message to the boyfriend: be absolutely clear about your boundaries, and don't let yourself get talked into something you aren't comfortable with. Having been dragged through this scenario 90% unwillingly by a former girlfriend a quarter-century ago, I can attest to the fact that it can be incredibly painful to the monogamous person. If you are clear that it's not what you want, it's better to break up right away than to endure what feels to you like one betrayal after another.
Hopefully this will let me comment. It keeps giving me an error.
Foxy, thank you SO much for not just defaulting to Poly, and keeping a wider net of nonmonogamy open.
Peter, I'm not sure anyone has that data, I doubt very much it has been studied, given the attitudes about non-monogamy.
Finally, I am going to contradict the professor here and recommend Tristan Taormino's Opening Up, rather than The Ethical Slut. Opening Up has a much broader view, (although, to be fair, I haven't read the updated version of TES) and is less about how enlightened Poly or non-monogamy is.
I think Opening Up is a far more practical, down-to-earth embrace of "People are complicated, here are some ideas about that." than TES. (Just my opinion.)
good call with the Tristan. I've read the ethical slut and enjoyed parts of it, but looked for more in others, and I just got the tristan book to wade through soon, but have heard it's amazing.
I liked it a lot. It seemed far less preachy about a sort of One True Wayism.
Marie.
I see where you are coming from, but we only have the line about "time apart to see other people" and that's kind of ambiguous. I took it as him thinking that the only option here is to "take a break" in order to see other people. It may be that he hasn't thought of a compromise involving seeing other people while still dating but without it being him around as in a threesome.
It's unclear to me.
Yeah it really is unclear, which is why I think Prof Foxy should have addressed all of the possibilities. The OP's boyfriend may not have considered the option of a more open relationship and may end up being fine with it. But there's also the possibility that he would not be able to deal with such an arrangement and that's a really important point that shouldn't have been neglected.
*nod*
To be fair to Foxy, though, the "he may not be open to it" is sort of the default position of society, is it not?
Yeah that's a good point and it's probably why Prof Foxy didn't want to talk about that possibility. But I think we can reject societal standards of sexuality and embrace people's sexual differences while still acknowledging that sex can be messy and complicated and can lead to conflicts. It's important to celebrate sexual identities that break from the norm, but that doesn't mean that we should forget that not everyone is sexually compatible.
Oh, entirely agree. And, as someone who has seen too many people agree to non-monogamy despite not wanting to be involved in that, I understand the desire to keep the "it might just not work out" issue there.
Oh, entirely agree. And, as someone who has seen too many people agree to non-monogamy despite not wanting to be involved in that, I understand the desire to keep the "it might just not work out" issue there.
Foxy - What's wrong with also advising people to suck it up or move on? At least make that part of the response?
The entire response by Foxy focused on how the person could convince her partner to accept the open relationship she has been pressuring him into. But it's pretty clear from the description that he is not comfortable with that.
Every relationship has trade-offs. Your partner may be an amazing person but right now in your life you might be more interested in having lots of sexual experiences. That's wonderful, go for it, experimentation is great. Who knows how you will feel about monogamy in the future. Many people's attitudes on this will shift wildly throughout their dating life. But let your boyfriend know that sexual experimentation is your priority right now, break up, and let him find someone who is more on his wavelength in terms of monogamy. As I am sure many women can attest too, no one likes when their partner tries to pressure them into a threesome or to have an open relationship when they want monogamy. I don't think it is a stretch to say it is emotionally abusive to continue to try and pressure someone into a sexual agreement that they aren't comfortable with.
Alternatively, suck it up. Many (most?) people would love to have sex with someone other than their primary partner. It's exciting. It's thrilling. It's novel. But it also creates threats to the relationship, whether it is sexual jealousy, emotional jealousy, one partner forming a bond with someone new and abandoning their primary relationship, etc.
There is nothing wrong with putting your relationship or your partner's feelings ahead of your own desires sometimes. Many men and women do it all the time.
I agree. There are many instances in relationships when we have to decide whether we want to do what we want or what the other person wants. It seems like that's the point that Sexually Stifled is at.
While I agree that there are moments to tell people it's time to move on, I couldn't *disagree* more with this idea of "sucking it up" or putting your relationship ahead of your desires when it's an issue as serious as this one. It won't work down the line. You say men and women do it all the time -- yes, they do and they're unhappy and they cheat! This person already has in a sense by kissing someone else and not talking about it.
I don't get the sense that this young couple have fully talked about what an open relationship would entail. She mentioned taking some time apart, but that's different and could be more threatening. He is open to sharing other partners, so he may be open to a poly relationsip if they have a more concrete talk about what that would mean following Foxy's advice.
I'm in a long-term (15+ years) polyamorous relationship. We have our boundaries, we've gone through really hard moments, we've had periods of time that have been "monogamous," and we've both had other friends/lovers. It's hard work, but three things have been incredibly important to make our relationship work (as I imagine these things are in any relationship):
1. being honest about our feelings/desires no matter how afraid we feel about saying them out loud
2. realizing that relationships are a process and that we need to check-in and renegotiate
3. truly being committed to our primary relationship because we want to be, not because we think we should be. That's what has given us the trust necessary to deal with any feelings that come up and still be together. Our primary relationship is the priority.
Polyamory & nonmonogamy are absolutely not for everyone and if the boyfriend doesn't want that, then the girlfriend needs to take a long look at what her immediate and long-term desires are and be honest with him. From her brief e-mail, it seems like she might not be ready for settling down no matter how good it is right now.
I genuinely think it is wonderful that you have found a relationship in which you and your partner are happy with polyamory. There are alot of cultural pressures stacked up against the option but it sounds like you've thrived in it.
Regarding your reaction to my advice to "suck it up or move on" if your partner is not comfortable with nonmonogamy but you desire it. You disagreed with the validity of the "suck it up option".
Whether the "suck it up" option is advisable depends on how important the issue is to the person. One of my previous partners was extremely extremely extremely cleanly, organized, and controlling of her apartment space, wanting it to be a specific way at all times. I'm am very much the opposite. It's pretty clear that was a core part of her personality and not going to change even after discussing the issue and me moving closer to her standards. That leaves me with two options: Move on (find someone else with more compatable ideas about personal space and cleanliness) or suck it up (spend much more of my personal time on cleaning and accept that when it doesn't meet expectations it's going to be a headache for me). If everything else was great, then sucking it up would have been a good option.
The original poster suggests everything else is great, so she has a couple choices beyond pressuring her partner into an open relationship: Suck it up on the sexual side in order to enjoy all the other amazing things, or move on.
In this case, it sounds like the original poster feels her desire for many others is a central part of her experience, at least right now. So for her, "moving on" might be preferrable to "sucking it up". But everyone does (or should) make sacrafices sometimes for their partners, and everyone has to "suck it up" in some aspect of their relationship because no two people have exactly aligning goals and motivations.
I doubt we really *disagree* that much. If this issue is not central to her life, or thinks it might subside, sucking it up sounds like a good option. If it is, she should consider moving on. What troubled me was that neither of these options were given serious consideration in the original post. The main focus was on how to get a partner who has already expressed discomfort with an open relationship to embrace it. One option, certainly, and there is an off chance it could work. But it is not the only option, and not necessarily the one in his best interest.
I don't know that we disagree so much, except that I really do question whether it is possible to "suck it up" when it comes to sexual desire without that having other negative consequences for relationships down the road. In my opinion & based on what I've seen, for *most* people it's very different than compromising on things like keeping the house clean.
I definitely agree that moving on should be an option and one that more people should be willing to consider in these kinds of cases.
This was a fairly compassionate set of advice on a sensitive topic, most of which I have no quarrel with (though I cannot imagine myself electing to follow through on any of it from either role). However I have serious reservations with one item:
5. What must you tell other sexual interests? Do you tell other people you hook up with that you have a primary relationship and that needs to be respected?
OF COURSE YOU TELL THIS OTHER PERSON YOU HAVE A PRIMARY RELATIONSHIP. He or she has a right to make informed decisions about who he or she is sleeping with. Maybe he or she doesn't want sex with someone who has a primary partner. That has nothing whatsoever to do with your agreement with your primary partner.
Other than that, If you don't want to tell them that you have a primary relationship, or you don't want to mention your partner at all, maybe your primary relationship isn't all that primary.
Agree! Otherwise, you are just being selfish and possibly hurting someone else. It's important for everyone to know the boundaries of the relationship.
Very much agreed. One of my friends got seriously burned by getting involved with a guy who didn't tell her he was in an open relationship for weeks, and I'd prefer not to have to see anyone go through what she did.
Some single people can't do hooking up with people in relationships, nonmonogamous or not, so it's fair to warn them what they're getting into. And if there's anything you reserve for your primary relationship, whether that's hand-holding or emotional intimacy or something else, that really deserves a warning as well.
Yep. I've gotten burned by not being informed partners had no intention to be monogamous until after I'd had sex with them. By two different men.
Sure, this might make it harder for a male partner to find women willing to sleep with him under those terms, but this is really a 'tough shit' kind of thing. It's unethical to mislead/not inform a potential partner in order to make things easier for oneself and thereby hurt someone, possibly badly.
And "But you didn't ask if I was monogamous beforehand," doesn't get you out of jail free. Should I have done that? Probably. Not that I'd ever heard about the possibility, or ever read about how to address it, and the guys were banking on that in order to get me in bed.
Should they have simply 'forgotten' to mention it? Definitely not. In this instance, the guys not mentioning it were consciously intending to mislead me in order to get laid. Anyone who doesn't see that as hurtful needs a clue, including Professor Foxy in this case (although the rest of the advice here was excellent and thorough).
just wanted to add that withholding information and thereby hurting someone is not limited to non-monogamous people.
imagine s.o. telling you after getting laid that he does not like you /does not want a relationship with you/ etc. - it's the same and equally misleading and hurtful.
Absolutely.
I agree with you that the other person should be told. However, I think that this may also make it harder on the boyfriend to find partners. I don't mean to conform to our culture's stereotype that all women want a relationship and guys are ok with just sex, because I know that this is not true, but from my experiences (and granted, I live in a conservative town so it may be different elsewhere) due to both genders conforming to what our culture has taught them, a female telling guys she is in an open primary relationship and just wants to fool around would gets lots of men up for it but a man telling women this would meet a lot of rejection and even anger. Maybe where this couple live the demographic of people is different and women would be more open to this, but if I tried this open relationship here with a guy and we were both honest with the other partners, I would rake in a lot more men than he would women. I still think the other partners need to be told, I just see the male in this particular particular situation getting the bum deal. It seems that he doesn't really want other partners (except that he was open enough to compromise by offering her a threesome) or his girlfriend to have other partners with him not around so that is already going to make this more difficult for him. Add to that that depending on the people where he lives he may find it much harder to get a partner for casual sexual encounters being honest than his partner will.
Agreed. That may make him feel like he is on the losing end of the stick, and could become a factor in whether he agrees to try it. It's not ethical for him to pretend to be single, but that fact becomes a factor in potentially making the situation unworkable.
One of the dangers of opening a relationship is unintentionally finding yourself deeply attached to one of your sex partners -- or they to you -- thereby replacing, and thus destroying, the primary relationship. If the man has to approach his potential partners from the perspective that his partners have an unspoken expectation of a shot as snagging him, that danger is magnified, certainly for the partners even if he is clear about his primary attachment. It may also change the way these women try to relate to him, which increases the possibility he will decide to bond with one of them and abandon the open relationship.
It's basically the same danger as in taking time off from each other to see other people, only without taking time off.
Agree with EndersGames.
To be honest, it sounds like the OP is just bored with the relationship, and wants to experiment with different partners. Which is fine.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with open relationships if both parties agree, but it really doesn't sounds like OP's boyfriend does. To be quite honest, it sounds like she is young and isn't really looking for a committed relationship anyway.
Regarding the question-writer herself, I have one concern: fantasies are all well and good, but if her fantasies are so intense that they are interfering with her ability to have a good sexual experience with her partner, I question how much she really wants him as a sex partner, let alone a primary. At that point, why is he even in the room?
I can't say how he would react to that information (for all I know, they've already discussed it) but if I were to learn that was how my partner felt, I would be inclined to just set her free. Who wants to be the rag doll for someone else's fantasy sex? (Please note, by the way: here's proof that it isn't only men who do that to women.)
Have sex with your partner when you are ready to actually have sex WITH your partner. Failing that, get a vibrator.
I would advise trying out the threesome/foursome idea. The boyfriend has already agreed to that. I know the OP thinks this won't be a solution, but I think it would be a valuable step toward finding one.
Of course, I don't know either of these people, but I think the OP should be prepared that her boyfriend is really hurt by these conversations. Bringing it up could very well ruin the relationship. Only the OP, who actually knows her boyfriend, can know how things will go over. I know that if my boyfriend made these proposals to me, I would be very upset.
I would suggest leaving out the "stifled" word when discussing it with him. That wording makes him seem inadequate. Try to spin it in a positive way, saying that you want to explore your sexuality further, particularly your attraction toward women. Maybe he will be more open to the idea if you agree to only hook up with women, but not other men.
"...particularly your attraction toward women. Maybe he will be more open to the idea if you agree to only hook up with women, but not other men."
Why should the original poster have to limit herself (or imply that she will limit herself) to sexual experiences that are obviously meant to cater to the male gaze. This fetishization of female bisexuality has got to stop--it's just so disrespectful.
Obviously, I can't say whether or not emphasizing the whole girl-on-girl thing might work for the OP or anybody else considering a poly relationship, but it just seems like more of the usual stuff--two women engaging in sexual acts primarily for male titillation. And that isn't cool. Neither is trying to use this fetishization to "spin" a conversation in a certain direction.
Since we're on a feminist board, I'm guessing the last statement wasn't intended this way, but to me, this really brings up something that grinds my gears: the co-opting of lesbianism and bisexuality for the male gaze.
Yeah I don't think it was intended that way either. I'm guessing they meant that if the OP has sex with women then her boyfriend would be less likely to feel like he's being replaced. Personally, if my boyfriend told me he was bisexual and interested in exploring his attraction to men I would realize that those are needs that I can't meet and would understand him seeking them elsewhere, but if he wanted to see other women I would wonder why I wasn't good enough.
Yeah, this. It sets off different fears for different reasons. I think dormouse was recommending the OP having sex with a woman on her own terms, not as a "show" for the boyfriend.
I have friends who have this exact situation. She's bi and would like to also sleep with other men, but her boyfriend would be way more threatened by that. He originally didn't want her sleeping and/or dating women either, but has realized he is ok with that. (They started slow, and checked in a lot.)
Might he ever be ok with her with men? Possibly. I think he feels safe in the relationship and such, but his reaction to a man is irrational, he knows that, but it pushes buttons her being with a woman doesn't. That being the case, she has decided it isn't worth the drama to pursue men right now. I do not find this unreasonable.
I get what you guys are saying--maybe the OP having outside relationships with women might not bring up the same issues for her SO as would a relationship with a man.
I think my hackles just got raised by the whole thing because of the pervasive way that bisexuality (for women, anyway) is so fetishized these days.
If he isn't present, he probably isn't fetishizing it. If he is present, he needs to be an equal participant with the other attendees, which probably would be difficult to impossible with another man, unless both men are bisexual too. You definitely want to avoid a situation where anyone starts to feels like they are being ignored and shut out while the other two go at it. (Speaking of which, I see a red flag in Letter Writer's statement that threesomes aren't the solution. The message there is "I need to have some sex that doesn't involve YOU." Ouch.)
This still seems really problematic from a bisexual perspective--not because of taking woman-woman sex as a titillation for men, but because it potentially ignores the way that (many) actual bisexual people understand their own "needs" and "desires" and substitutes a mono-sexual way of understanding them.
This of course may differ from one bisexual person to another, but if my partner presented things to me the way that you have I would be quite upset because she obviously would not be understanding what it is (for me at least) to be bisexual.
I do not have "needs" that only men can fill or only women can fill anymore than I have needs that only blonds or people with large breasts or a beer belly can fill. I want to have sex with men other than my partner for the same reasons I want to have sex with women other than my partner (though we are actually monogamous so I don't). There is no reason (in my case) that my having sex with another woman should be seen as any more or less threatening than my having sex with a man, unless one is simply refusing to take at face value what I say about my own sexuality.
Now I know there may be other bisexual people do find more important differences (though in my community of bisexuals I've never met a person who feels this way) in what they get from men vs. women and that's fine. If one's partner is that sort of bisexual person, then the kind of view you're describing may make sense. But for other kinds of bisexuals like myself, hearing that view from a partner would be very offensive.
I thought of this too- the questioner seems to be both poly and bi, or possibly confusing the two or still discovering her identity for herself. And I would hate to see her experience become fodder for people who think bisexuals are necessarily polyamorous, and/or incapable of monogamy. Not that her questioning should be silenced, but maybe Prof Foxy could have thrown in a line or two reminding readers that nonmonogamy and bisexuality have separate definitions.
I would think in a case like yours, the hypothetical response from the monogamous partner could be either, "Okay, in that case you shouldn't be put off by my security blanket request to limit your choices to one sex, since that distinction is only relevant to me" or "Okay, I understand; in that case I'm equally threatened by both, so all bets are off." It's not about your sexuality, it's about dealing with their insecurities around extra-relationship sex. In that respect it isn't substantially different than the rule about "no hooking up with my friends" or "fucking is okay, but no holding hands."
For what it's worth, I tend to agree with your perspective on your reasons for wanting sex with other men being the same as for wanting sex with other women. Not being bisexual myself, I can't claim to understand the difference in needing sex with both sexes, but it always struck me as a request for a free pass not extended to monosexuals. I could argue that I need sex with women who are both Americans and foreigners, or thin and not-thin, et cetera, because I think it would be so different, but I doubt I would get the same sympathy over that request. I probably would get told "What part of "ONE partner" don't you understand?"
I was certainly not trying to imply that your sexuality is something that it isn't and I'm sorry if it came off the wrong way. I was simply trying to interpret dormouse's statement because others were misunderstanding it.
I do still feel however that I would be more threatened if my partner sought out people of the same gender as me than if he sought out the opposite gender. Perhaps it's not rational or fair and it's just an insecurity issue, but I still think that it's valid to talk about insecurities if one's in an open relationship and see if there's any way that they can be accommodated, so that everyone feels safe and loved.
And since I've never been in an open relationship this is all hypothetical and I would probably end up felling threatened regardless of gender. Again, that may be unfair and due to irrational insecurities, but you can't help how something makes you feel.
As other commenters have noted, I totally didn't mean it that way. I was just presenting a different "detail" that she might have to work through. She said she would be interested in exploring her attraction toward women. I would imagine that her boyfriend would be more accepting of her sleeping with women than other men, not because he'll get off on it, but because he would more likely feel jealous/inadequate/replaced if she slept with other men.
Honestly, the "lesbians are so hot dude!" phenomenon did not cross my mind. However, if the girlfriend liked hooking up with girls and the boyfriend likes the girlfriend hooking up with girls, I don't see that as necessarily a problem. Sounds like a win-win. And it doesn't seem like fetishization of bisexuality, considering this has been his long term girlfriend.
When I read this post, I kept thinking to myself that the OPs boyfriend is wonderful, and they are terrific friends. She is only in her early 20s!
Personally, I would think seriously about ending the relationship. Before doing that, I would talk to him about opening up the relationship. If he seems genuinely up for it (not just up for it because he thinks it will make you happy but make him miserable), then try it out. If he hesitates or seems unsure, it probably isn't going to work out. You are so young - if this relationship isn't working out for you, you need to get out of it. Obviously the two of you are great friends, and hopefully it can stay that way.
I think all of the comments point out that the other person's opinion should be equally valued are important. I totally support nonmonogamy for people who find it works, but I would be devastated if my SO suggested it to me. It would end the relationship for me. That, of course, says more about me and my needs than anything helpful about the possibilities of these relationships for other people?
IMO that's a really bad way to react.. But at the same time, I don't blame you. I would probably react the same way.
If it ever does happen to you though, I think that instead of jumping to any conclusions, you should take a moment and listen to what your partner has to say. It's not necessarily a problem with you or with how the relationship is going.
I don't understand, why would that be a really bad way to react? Clearly Tara K. is NOT a nonmonogamous person and learning that her SO is would really hurt her and she wouldn't be able to handle that. She'd do the right thing and end the relationship. I'm the same way. It's not saying that there's anything wrong with a nonmonogamous person, it's just that it doesn't work if they're with a monogamous person. If the other person is monogamous I don't think whatever the other nonmonogamous person suggests is going to be of any help if it involves sexually being with another person.
True, but at the same time, some people just prefer monogamy in the same way that some people may prefer poly relationships. We all have our relationship deal breakers, don't we?
I think flexibility is important, of course, but if monogamy (or any other thing) is truly important to someone, then I don't think any amount of conversation will sway them. Even if the other person's desire to be polyamorous doesn't spring from some kind of negativity in the relationship, I wouldn't necessarily say that their SO would be jumping to conclusions if they're self-aware enough to understand that monogamy is non-negotiable for whatever reasons.
Exactly. For me, monogamy is non-negotiable. I understand that not everyone is that way though so if my SO needed to be in a poly monogamous relationship or nonmonogamous one or something different I'd completely understand. We could just no longer be in a relationship together.
I think I've been misunderstood. If the relationship isn't going to work, then that is that. However, she stated that she'd be "devastated" in a case like this. What I was trying to say, is that she should listen to what her partner has to say so she doesn't take it personally. The fact that her partner is non-monogamous or wants to experiment doesn't mean that their was something wrong with their relationship, or with the way that she was satisfying her partner. In other words, instead of jumping to conclusions about WHY this has happened, she should just accept it as it is and not end up hurting herself further with negative thoughts.
Also, taking a moment and listening to what your partner has to say is never a bad thing IMO, even if it seems futile.
Even if I understood that it wasn't my fault or that nothing was wrong with the relationship, if I loved my SO I'd also still be devastated. I'd be devastated because I'd be realizing that it wasn't going to work with the person I loved. I understand what you're saying, but someone can still be incredibly upset/heartbroken/devastated/angry/all of the above about a situation and completely understand that it's not their fault.
Yeah, I don't see a problem with my reaction. I say I would be devastated because it's true; I've been with my SO for six years, and if he wanted to explore nonmonogamy -- something that works for others but not me, not at all -- it would mean that my wonderful, amazing relationship with someone I love was either going to end or exist in a state of dissatisfaction, probably ending anyhow.
I'm not saying I would blame myself or him, but that I would really be heartbroken.
In other words, i don't think monogamy or nonmonogamy should be privileged as something that is more deserving of open-mindedness; similarly, I don't think I should be asked to accept someone else's nonmonogamy over my monogamy in a relationship if we're both to be equal. We should just accept that their individual preferences.
All this hypothetical aside, I'm very happy that I don't think I'll ever have to face this, as my SO is just as monogamous as me, and that's what's important: a good match.
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@ Sexually Stifled: It seems that you do feel more nonmonogamous, and I'm by no means going to think I can better assess things than you. I would add, though, that I know a lot of women (well, and men) who have similar feelings after a few years in a relationship. I can't really speak for all of them, but many have found that it didn't last. NOW, that's not to say that what you're feeling is the same by any means. (I HATE when people try to trivialize other people's experiences/feelings as "passing.") Rather, I would say that this might show that some feelings of this are very common; you shouldn't feel as if this is a weird experience. And the fact that others find that it passes doesn't mean that it's a totally different experience, but that perhaps it just exists at a different point on the continuum spanning monogamy and nonmonogamy.
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** Can I add how difficult it is to type "nonmonogamy?" Is that just me?
Foxy, I thought your advice was very good. To the OP, I'd only add what was already said-the only way to make the relationship work if you have these desires is to be totally upfront with your boyfriend, let him know where you're coming from, and how you would like to handle the situation. You noted that you're young, so it's entirely possible that you don't want to settle down with one person at this point in time-but why gamble on your desires changing if you just endure and endure what you think you should endure? if he's open to the idea, then you and he might have a good relationship for a long time; if he's not, it'a not that he's lacking, but that you two aren't sexually compatible, which, as I see it, means wanting and giving roguhly the equivalent intimacy, love, and physical openness to a relationship.
Nonmonogamy is not impossible, but it's not what a lot of people are socialized to expect or want, or even think about, and when some people think about it, they STILL don't want it, no matter how tolerant they are, so I hope this isn't a hurtful thing for either of you, no matter how it plays out. But better to cause some hurt now then simmer in silent misery for years or cheat on him and cause a greater rupture of trust.
Good luck!
I don't think the answer is to try to convince her partner to be more like her. While he's being accommodating, one could easily say that it's not really his "thing".
It's not fair to him that she has a wandering eye, and he's just along for the ride.
If it were me, monogamy is not up for debate, discussion, or being bent. It's a rule, and there's no wavering on that.
I wouldn't be able to be convinced by my partner to start kissing random people, just because she wanted to. I have strong feelings about it. So, from my point of view, it might honestly be time to dissolve that relationship.
I'm with you. I am not becoming nonmonogamous for anyone. If my partner needs to be nonmonogamous, he'll have to find someone else with whom to be nonmonogamous.
I too agreed with all of the posters who commented that Prof Foxy's answer - though helpful in the event that the OP's boyfriend would be willing to explore nonmonogamy - didn't offer much in the way of how to deal with the possibility that the boyfriend would NOT be accepting of this kind of lifestyle.
There was something in the way you worded your particular comment that got me thinking. You said:
I don't think the answer is to try to convince her partner to be more like her. While he's being accommodating, one could easily say that it's not really his "thing".
Monogamy and nonmonogamy have thus far been discussed as some kind of spectrum, similarly to how we view gender and sexuality. We've established that the OP is definitely some form of non-monogamous; to what extent she is unsure. We also seem to have concluded that the OP's boyfriend is on the monogamous end of the scale - willing to try group sex as a "sexual experience" of sorts but still very much considering the OP to be his primary girlfriend and the only one with whom he wants to be involved at this time.
Others in the comments have mentioned nonmonogamy being a deal-breaker for them, that they are monogamous people, and they would rather not be in a relationship than be in one with someone who would engage in non-primary sexual or emotional partnerships.
So this all leads me to the question - are monogamy and nonmonogamy are inherent, unchangeable facets to our sexuality? If we don't categorize monogamy vs. nonmonogamy as a binary, and "allow" just as much nuance and variation as in descriptions of sexuality, would it not be accurate to say that someone's status on that varied spectrum (whatever that status is) would not really change (outside of some kind of "standard deviation")? You may have someone who is curious about nonmonogamy despite being only experienced in monogamous relationships. This may be very similar to someone who may be bi-curious - if someone doesn't have that curiosity within them (however unexplored as of yet), are they unlikely to change their position?
We know, obviously, that people don't decide to be gay or straight, or bi, or asexual, or (insert other sexuality label here.) People are born with their sexualities, and that cannot be "fixed," or changed, for the sake of someone else. They are sometimes repressed, sometimes never fully explored, but that person has a sexuality that is inherent within them. Could the non/monogamy spectrum be like this? Can the OP "change?" Can the OP's boyfriend "change?" Or more importantly, should they have to? Using Prof Foxy's tutorial, the OP may be able to convince her boyfriend to have non-monogamous experiences, but how comfortable would he be with the situation if he truly is a monogamous-side person?
Hmm. I don't think we're "born" one way or another, but I would say that it is like other aspects of our sexuality that develop as we discover sexuality. I'm not talking about sexual orientation, but other sexual preferences. Clearly, there's also the component of how we've been socialized to think about relationships, and I think that socialization occurs early one, probably before or in tandem with our development of our sexuality. And while I think we can discover more about our sexuality (and attitudes toward sexual relationships, etc.), I don't really think we're too likely to change them drastically, i.e. from non-monogamous to monogamous.
Your question did make me wonder, though, how much hormones could affect these things. For example, would a drop in hormones (such as that experienced in age) effect the desires of a nonmonogamous person? That's not meant to imply that nonmonogamous people are "super-horny" or something, but that all sex drives change with hormonal shifts, and thus I wonder if it would change those dynamics.
I think the OP needs to move on from the relationship.
Just because she has a good relationship with her boyfriend really isn't any reason to keep the relationship, I feel. I mean, the bigger question is.....why does she want to keep this relationship at all?
The OP seems to feel uncomfortable with her sexual relationship with her boyfriend in light of her other sexual experiences....which makes me feel that she's not a good candidate for a poly relationship. If she feels like she's cheating...well, then that's a problem. Her loyaties lie somewhere else then and if that's the case, she has no reason to further nurture her relationship with her boyfriend. He's not what she needs right now.
Seeing how much you desire other people, it is probably a safe bet that he will need extra reassurance that you still desire him (especially in light of your current sexual troubles with him). That probably will mean extra attention to demonstrate that.
Along the same lines, do not make the mistake of saying "Hey, I may go out with that guy, but I come HOME to YOU." That may sound like it's supposed to be reassuring, but it's actually really nasty on a number of levels: a) it sucks to be the one waiting at home for your lover to return from a tryst with someone else; b) it sucks to be seen as the default choice, rather than what is being chosen affirmatively and with desire; c) it sucks to be Mr. Dependable, good for making house together and a steady paycheck, but when it comes time to do something exciting, you look elsewhere. Would you want to be any of that in your partner's eyes?
One thing I reckon Prof. Foxy should have done was give a broader framework: monogamy is a cultural phenomena and not a 'universal human truth' of some sort. In many cultures and societies monogamy is/was not the norm and people still managed to have normal functioning relationships. So many people do not seem to realize or know about this! (go look it up on wikipedia)
Using monogamy as the standard against which all other relationships and human desires are measured is just like using 'heterosexuality' as the norm to unfavorably compare other sexualities to or the western conception of masculinity as the norm against which to measure all people.
There are strong incentives in our culture to be monogamous and to believe that this is normal and right, the christian God went as far as to actually condemn adultery 10 commandments! At times it's been safer, been easier to control women/everyone, been more 'stable' perhaps to enforce monogamy, but we are not just swans people! It's not as simple as just 'mating for life'.
For sex, for relationships, for friendships the most important this is trust and a sense of security and safeness. Without that you will have misery and uncertainty in any human interaction. Being with one person in no way switches off the part of your brain that can love or desire other people, and you are not at fault if this happens - you're just with the rest of humanity. How you as an individual, you as a couple and us all as a society deal with that is going to be complex and interesting and should not rely on dictated cultural norms or a false sense of morality.
Being with one person in no way switches off the part of your brain that can love or desire other people, and you are not at fault if this happens - you're just with the rest of humanity.
I think that's a bit of a cop-out.
Sort of saying "Well, if you cheat, it wasn't really your fault! You couldn't help it!".
may not have made that clear enough - to feel sexually attracted to someone (or maybe to fall in love with them) is beyond your control. To 'cheat' be 'unfaithful', engage in sexual activity with someone while in a monogamous relationship with someone else obviously is within your own control.
Don't rely on cultural norms, except to the extent that your partner is inculturated with them, and therefore violating those norms may hurt your partner personally. In other words, don't be bound by social convention, but take your partner's feelings into consideration.
If you know your partner will find it hurtful, and you need to do it anyway, have the decency to end the relationship, rather than forcing the experience on your partner. I don't recommend passing the choice off to them to end it or not, because there is this subtext that if only they were a little more open and accepting this would work. So they put themselves through hell trying to conform to your view of how it could all work out, and you get put through hell right along with them. Do not even hint at making them wrong for not being open enough. They want something different than you do, that's all.
I agree, screw cultural norms, but don't mess with your partners heart and feelings. If the OP wants a poly relationship, then it should be brought to light and not postponed until something happens. That would obviously kill the relationship. If both parties are up for it, then go for it.
I get the feeling that the OP is young and needs to try other people out. Heck, she thinks about other people when they have sex, which is definitely not healthy. I truly believe that she should have this conversation about an open relationship, but I have this nagging feeling that he will not be up to it, in which case the relationship should end. They're 20-somethings, long term relationships aren't really in the picture at this point in their lives. Three and a half years is a long time for young people, and as someone who is also 20-something, long term relationships are more of an anomaly than the norm. Don't try "taking a break" or anything like that, because that will just prolong the inevitable breakup, and leave both parties more devastated than if dealt with sooner.
Ignore cultural norms about relationships, because there is no standard relationship to speak of. Anyone can find a culture that fits their perception of what a relationship is. This applies not only for humans, but for animals as well. Some animals just go for whoever is the strongest and has the best genes, others, like penguins, choose a mate for life. Honesty is the best policy and will make any outcome much for palatable than if the present situation were dragged out any longer.
Boy, I don't know about this one; the male ego is a lot more fragile than this woman is seeming to project. I mean he might be the kind of guy who's cool with it, and then I wouldn't judge because none of my business, but I'd be really concerned if I were the person calling in about alienating my boyfriend if he really is that important to her.
Saying "no" to your desires is something that you have to do all the time; it's part of growing up. I definitely do it for my girlfriend, and I'd hope she'd extend the same courtesy to me.
I think you and I, though, may not have the same desires that Sexually Stifled does. I mean, I might occasionally think someone is attractive, but I've never even in the slightest wanted to be with someone else sexually in six years. Never crossed my mind. So I don't think you and I can compare our relationships to hers.
But I love hearing dudes say they'd never cheat. I know most men don't, but it's just so perpetuated and promoted in our society that men either cheat or struggle on a daily basis not to cheat, and I get so damn sick of seeing that bit over and over in TV, movies, etc. I'd love to see more display of male monogamy in our society; it's there, but it's just not represented or portrayed as much.
Honestly, what seems to be going on, is while the stereotype of "unfaithful male" stays just as visible and common, it's women that are doing it in much greater numbers.
I was similar to you. The idea of being with another person sexually just never even came up. It wasn't like some here describe it, where you have the desire and just "resist" it. There was no desire.
That's where my point came from on the original posting. If her boyfriend isn't the kind of guy to be interested in this, she's not going to be able to make him into that.
Though, since you enjoy it, I am male and was very seriously monogamous. I just couldn't find any female monogamy to link that up with. Lol.
That's a shame, but I'm sure you'll find it. I hope you publicize your monogamy as much as possible. There really needs to be exhibition of voluntary male monogamy.
I don't think it's fair to say that women cheat more than men. Both men and women cheat and I don't think there's any evidence that one gender does so more than the other.
That's a shame, but I'm sure you'll find it. I hope you publicize your monogamy as much as possible. There really needs to be exhibition of voluntary male monogamy.
Oh, I did. Quite loudly, as it were. It was mostly just taken as "Good, I can cheat on him, and he won't cheat on me".
I've since just stopped dating. Works out better in the long run.
I don't think it's fair to say that women cheat more than men. Both men and women cheat and I don't think there's any evidence that one gender does so more than the other.
No, no, you misunderstood.
I'm saying that despite the long-persisting stereotype of "unfaithful man and faithful woman", that the number of women that cheat has increased quietly in the background.
I didn't say "more than". Just that it's gotten to be where most studies show it's equal to.
Oh okay, I see what you're saying now. And I agree. The stereotype is that men always cheat or cheat more. But I think it's pretty much equal.
From what was said in the letter and the age sexually stifled is, it seems that this may be a perfectly fine relationship, but not right for her at this point in her life. Maybe a monogamous relationship will not ever be right for her, but I don't think there is enough info to say that now. I tend to think that her idea to take a break and experiment makes the most sense. I realize he doesn't want to do this, so instead of taking a break she may be breaking up with him permanently, but I don't think at this point and with desires so strong she has already begun to act on them that she can "suck it up". Yes, she can suggest the open relationship first to her boyfriend and if he is enthusiastic about it that would be a good fix, but if he is not 100% for it than I think the best thing is to break up, at least for awhile. That will give both parties time to figure out if they want to return to this relationship or not.
I don't advocate explicitly temporary breakups. The problem with them is that one partner or the other will have a stronger expectation that the relationship will eventually resume, and when for some reason it doesn't, the one with the greater expectation will feel hurt all over again.
It will also tend to affect the way each of them relate to other people during the break time, potentially sabotaging other perfectly good prospects. When the boyfriend (for example) realzes not only is his girlfriend not going to return, BUT that he let a number of other good relationships get away, it will be doubly hurtful.
I've never understood the "let's take a break and see other people" idea, anyway. I can see wanting time off from someone you're around all the time, maybe to hang out with friends or just taking a little 'me time' vacation, but -no offense intended, but probably achieved- a temporary break to see other people has always sounded to me like a nicer way of saying "I'm no longer interested and want to break up, but I'd like to keep you around as a safety net for awhile." Indeed, I really don't see how the partner getting the 'see other people' speech can feel like anything other than a safety net, since they'd likely be the one more invested in getting back together and stuck waiting around to see if the other person wanted to make the break up permanent or come back because things hadn't worked out with anyone else.
I have been asked to "take a break" and asked someone for this and in both cases I did not feel like I was being used as a safety net or using them. We were very young at the time of these "breaks" and in a serious relationship and though we considered ourselves in love we also had what I believe were natural desires for people at that age to experiment, to free up time and energy for other things, to be able to flirt and make out with someone else without feeling guilty, to make sure the person we were with was right for us, to gain clarity by getting some distance from the relationship etc. I think both partners have to be in a similar mental/emotional place for this to work, though. Which is why though I at first thought a break would be a good idea I have to agree that for this couple, probably not.
I do see what you're saying there, and I really should've specified this couple but I rewrote that comment several times over without being satisfied that it didn't look as if I were attacking the letter writer.
Of course, I'll admit my perceptions of taking a break are also somewhat colored by a very bad situation a friend of mine got into, wherein taking a break meant that he could and she couldn't.
Maybe it didn't feel like you were being taken advantage of (or taking advantage), but I don't see how a breakup designated as temporary can not be a safety net. It's a matter of a chain of logical consequences.
You break up with your partner with the specific intent to start seeing other people. While seeing these other people, there is the distinct possibility that you may find a permanent relationship with one of them. If you come back to your original partner, it's by definition because it didn't work out with anybody else. How is that not a safety net?
If you designate the breakup as temporary in advance, you are explictly saying "I'll come back to you when I'm done playing," but "...if nothing better comes along" is inescapably implicit as well. Also, characterizing it in those terms implicitly encourages your partner to entertain the possbility of waiting for you. How is that not keeping them around?
I see what you are saying, though I also think there is a risk inherent in any relationship. Being monogamous has risks, getting married has risks, open relationships have risks, etc. In my own personal experience, taking a break worked out well. However, I will agree with you that perhaps in this case since the partners are at such different places in what they desire, simply ending the relationship and then later if she decides to commit to monogamy with him, seeing if he wants to give it another shot is the best option.
Understood. I just think that the unmistakable message of a breakup, temporary or not, is "I want other people more than I want you. I want them bad enough that I am willing to set you aside."
No offense, but that's a lousy way to treat a primary partner. It kind of defies the definition of primary.
While I'm not saying it can't work, it should not be surprising when it doesn't work: when he's not there waiting for you when you are ready to commit, or even if he is available, he doesn't want anything to do with you whatsoever, whether for fear of a repeat performance or just for the bad taste left in his mouth from last time.
I hate the idea of "taking a break" and always have. I've done it before and I've known friends that have done it before. It's only worked out maybe once. Strike that. It's only worked out once. And that "break" lasted all of a week and the guy that requested the break didn't really want it either. More like they lived together and he needed more free time to hang out with his friends, he never wanted to date other people.
I've had friends ask me what they think of "taking a break" and I tell them the same thing. I think it's a horrible idea. Usually it's just a way to prolong a break-up. And in the end the person on the receiving end just gets hurt more. Sure it CAN work, but it's really really rare. I always suggest, if the couple is thinking about going down the "taking a break" road to just break-up instead. Usually when people break-up it's not like they sever all ties anyway so if they are meant to be they will end up getting back together down the line. But this way, with a real break-up, they're more free to explore relationships with other people and the person on the receiving end of the break-up isn't just constantly holding out this hope that things will be fine once the break is over.
Usually when people break-up it's not like they sever all ties anyway so if they are meant to be they will end up getting back together down the line.
My personal experience is that a breakup always means breaking off all contact. Everything else would be too confusing and hurtful for me and probably the other person as well. (Although I admire people who can develop a friendship with an ex.)
I have done the "let's take a break" thing - not in order to see other people, but in order to figure out what I really want. More like: I need two (or four...) weeks to find some clarity, please be patient and give me that time for myself, I promise to keep an open mind and to make no relationship decisions without you.
In my opinion a full breakup is too hurtful to ever get back together. So I would never advise anybody "when in doubt, end the relationship" which seems implied in llevinso's comment.
Of course, "Everyone to their own taste," said the old woman as she kissed the cow.
By not severing all ties I don't mean you still stay friends, I mean that you don't move across the country, delete phone numbers from memory, never talk again even if you see the person in passing...that kind of thing. Chances are if this person was a part of your life before it's really difficult to cut them out of your life completely.
Yes, I do have this feeling that if it's meant ot be it's meant to be. If you need 3-4 weeks to figure out what you want, you can do so without me waiting around to find out. I just think that's really unfair to the other person. It's selfish. I've been in that position before and it sucks and if the person figures out after those 3-4 weeks that what they want isn't to be with you it just leaves you with more bad feelings.
In my opinion a full breakup is too hurtful to ever get back together."
In my opinion (and in my experience, for what that's worth), a temporary breakup is as hurtful as a full breakup, and rather less respectful.
"So I would never advise anybody "when in doubt, end the relationship" which seems implied in llevinso's comment."
Neither would I. I would say, "Don't break up unless you mean it."
My heart really goes out to Sexually Stifled and all other people out there in unhappy relationships. It is just terrible that your boyfriend merely wants to work out the problems in your relationship instead of going out on you. You really should just ditch him and start slutting around. I mean, love, loyalty, and good communication are not the most important things in a relationship. Sleeping with whoever you want whenever you want is definitely the most important thing. By the way, when writing in, you should include the age, height, weight, political affiliation, religion, occupation, city of residence, and a picture of your "problem" boyfriend/girlfriend. This way you can find someone else willing to take them off of your hands. Problem solved!
Well, that was completely rude.