*Trigger warning, this radio cut of pro-life Pastor Wiley Drake is a scary view into the mind of the wing-nut*
Well, if that was not scary enough for you check out the more "friendly" pro-life apologisms of Ross Douthat. According to him, religious right-wing fundamentalists that use scare tactics and kill abortion doctors do it because they feel disempowered and don't have enough access to legal avenues to stop and "keep humane" abortion laws.
If anything, by enshrining a near-absolute right to abortion in the Constitution, the pro-choice side has ensured that the hard cases are more controversial than they otherwise would be. One reason there's so much fierce argument about the latest of late-term abortions -- Should there be a health exemption? A fetal deformity exemption? How broad should those exemptions be? -- is that Americans aren't permitted to debate anything else. Under current law, if you want to restrict abortion, post-viability procedures are the only kind you're allowed to even regulate.If abortion were returned to the democratic process, this landscape would change dramatically. Arguments about whether and how to restrict abortions in the second trimester -- as many advanced democracies already do - would replace protests over the scope of third-trimester medical exemptions.
The result would be laws with more respect for human life, a culture less inflamed by a small number of tragic cases -- and a political debate, God willing, unmarred by crimes like George Tiller's murder.
If you can stomach it read his entire "persuasive" argument about how to find a common ground with right-wing terrorists that harass, intimidate and kill doctors. He throws in some slut-shaming disguised in the form of making legible the difference between excusable and inexcusable forms of abortion (and highlights women that have *gasp* multiple abortions).
Jamelle at USJ breaks down two key things that are off about this column,
There are two big things that bother me about this column, and the first is common to almost every discussion of abortion on the nation's op-ed pages - the presumption that there is something "controversial" about first or second trimester abortion. The fact is that American public opinion on abortion has been pretty stable for almost thirty years. According to Gallup, this is how it breaks down: roughly a quarter of Americans believe abortion should be legal in every circumstance, roughly half of Americans believe abortion should be legal in some circumstances, and roughly a quarter of Americans believe abortion should never be legal. What's more, I'm sure that Americans would be fully in favor of the Roe v. Wade/Casey v. Planned Parenthood status quo if it were described to them free of propaganda. That is, a status quo where first trimester abortion is virtually unregulated, second trimester abortion is subject to restrictions of varying degree, determined by each state, and third trimester abortion is illegal except in extreme circumstances.This actually gets to the other thing I don't like about this column - Ross Douthat thinks we're stupid. No, he doesn't outright say it, but his argument only works if his readers are complete and total idiots. Under current law, there already is substantive debate over second and third trimester abortion. States already can regulate and restrict abortion in both periods, and in many states, there already is a "saner, stricter legal regime." Douthat's dream is already a reality in much of the country, the fact of which provides a nice insight into Douthat's actual agenda. Underneath the smothering layers of faux-sensibility is someone who lies far outside the mainstream when it comes to abortion rights. Douthat doesn't want a debate over second trimester abortion, he wants it - and third trimester abortion - outlawed. Arguments over the scope of second trimester abortion would be critical in Douthat's world because it would be effectively criminalized, and women in need of said of reproductive services would be shit out of luck, as the saying goes.
Emphasis mine. The New York Times should be ashamed for running this piece.
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I've some very sad news to report. Dr. Tiller's clinic to permanently shut down.
Wiley Drake is a nutcase.
I am horrified that he PRAYS for President Obama's death.
i remember seeing a some stupid anti-choice (what a fruedian slip, im saying the words as i type them and my head says "choice", my fingers say "child") propaganda on the DC metro stating roe v. wade allowed abortion at any time, up until birth. i was really friggin' pissed and without a sharpie.
What a joke. Keep your own fucking morals to yourself. Not everyone is as sure as you are about the saving power of jesus christ, but because our president won't bend to YOUR god's will you're praying for his murder.
Just imagine our government being completely ruled and watched over by people like this, having the power to affect your actions. Premarital sex would be illegal. Going to church on sundays = mandatory.
Nothing against normal Christians. They tend to be fairly awesome for the most part. It's just these nutcases that get my blood boiling.
Oh, remember-he isn't praying for Obama's murder, he is praying for his death. Semantics matters you know *eye roll*
Fundmentalists seem terminally incapable of understanding what 'seperation of church and state' means.
Joan
This is particularly infuriating because the abortion bills are moving through the legislature in AZ this week. Waiting periods, "informed consent," etc... The geniuses down there are about to SERIOUSLY regulate first and second trimester abortions.
On the flip, we have a bill supporting medically accurate, comprehensive sex ed that probably won't pass. How fucking stupid.
Also, is anyone else repeatedly reading his name in her/his head as "Douchehat?"
When the caller asked him "isn't the murder of Dr. Tiller, for fear and sending a message an act of terrorism? How is killing for a political agenda not terrorism? Aren't you a terrorism supporter?"
and then Drake responds "I'm not a terrorism supporter, I'm a vengenge of God supporter"
well, something like that...so Drake says that as long as the murdering is done in the name of God, than by that definition, it can not possibly be Terrorism. Riiight. Because we all know that none of the world's Terrorist organizations ever claim to be on God's side, or that they are acting on behalf of "God's will", or that they are "messengers of God".
Just how many abominable acts have been committed in the name of "God" over the course of human history?
I am usually very wary of labeling people or acts as terrorism...I think in many ways the concept has been turned into a boogeyman in order to violate civil rights, fight illegitimate wars, and lock up innocent people. But in the case where someone goes out and murders someone in cold blood, and is also associated with an organization that been known for several decades to systematically harass and threaten people with violence and in some cases perpetrate violence, all to forward their political/moral agenda that is supposedly based on "gods will"...Well, I think I feel pretty confident in calling these extremist pro-"life" people terrorists...so I certainly agree with the caller on that...I just can't believe the level of hypocrisy shown by this Drake person in his comments. Unbelievable.
I love the person for calling in. Although if there is one thing that we can learn from this, it's that you can't make sense out of the things crazy people say. Gotta love the flat out hypocricy of this guy.
would never pray for someone's murder, but praying for someone's death is ok (but how that happens doesn't really matter cause it's all worked out in the end). Also scary that he says we will see more of these prayers answered in the near future.
it's not terrorism if it's in the name of God (unless it's not his God)
Tiller is in hell cause he didn't accept Jesus... but he was murdered IN HIS CHURCH. (again, "if it's not my God, it's not the right one and you're screwed")
And yet he even says he doesn't believe that his own views are the only "right one".... what?
*sigh*
Two things: 1) I wish the Loony Tunes extremists like this crazy preacher in our own country would get more play in the MSM; and 2)your characterization of Ross Douthat's editorial is about as shrill and out-of-touch as anything the Right says about BO.
I disagree with everything Douthat had to say, but I'm fortunate I read it before visiting Feministing today otherwise I'd be misinformed. Of the curtailing of democratic debate by Roe v. Wade, Justice Ginsberg has made the same argument: that by limiting debate it radicalized the Pro Life movement. Personally, I'm ok with the Court doing that, but Douthat isn't saying anything that Ginsberg & other liberals hasn't said. And as far as "slut shaming" by Douthat is concerned, well that's pure make believe, and unworthy character assassination. I'm 100% Pro Choice, but I don't think we'll win when we adopt the Radical Right's tactics.
This actually reminds me of when "honor killings," other domestic violence, other child abuse, etc. gets committed by people who have low incomes/are in a minority of where they live/etc. instead of having high incomes/being in the local majority/etc. and some other people say the abusers lashed out at even-more-vulnerable people because they felt powerless and dissed (the local majority wouldn't keep down his daughter enough for him, he couldn't talk back to his commanding officer but he could go home and punch his wife, she depended on her husband's income but she was allowed to spank their kids, and so on and on and on).
DJ from Camden, OH is my new homie.