Breaking News: Randall Terry Says Tiller "Reaped What he Sowed"
Randall Terry, founder of anti-abortion organization Operation Rescue, just said the following in a press conference: "George Tiller was a mass-murder and, horrifically, he reaped what he sowed."
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I'm sorry, but that toupe is just awful. How unfortunate that this man got to speak about Dr. Tiller, what a shame... mass murder, psh.
I can't view the video, so I'm not sure if it gets worse after this, but if not, that seems like an honest response for someone with a very strong pro-life position to take. If you think someone is a murderer, you might not be inclined to kill them yourself, but it would be hard not to feel some satisfaction in their death.
I think this is a much more sensible reaction than the BS that came out of most pro-life organizations. Granted, some of them might be more moderate groups, but if they actually think abortion is murder, how sad could they really be?
If they actually think abortion is murder, and they think murder is bad, then taking satisfaction from murder... oh I don't know why I bother, we all know their stance is contradictory, but it just drives me insane.
Personally, I am a moderate pacifist, but if someone walked into my hospital and started shooting people, I would be willing to kill them to stop them. It seems like a lot of prolifers would feel similarly about abortion, right?
Yeah, I know. I mean, if I tilt my head to the side and squint I can understand their logic. But then I remember that they're valuing fetuses over adult women, and I get angry and frustrated.
Sure. Just like the 9/11 hijackers really thought of the U.S. as the Great Satan. :shrug:
Just because people have strongly held beliefs doesn't mean their beliefs/actions have any validity.
Of course not. But this still leaves me confused about the many groups that spoke out against this right away. Certainly some must be truly dedicated to non-violence, or at least non-killing, but most of them? If they see it as being similar to my example, why would they be against it?
They are either not really against it or they are against it because they don't really think fetuses = born people.
by their logic, fetuses are more valuable than adult women for two reasons: they're 'innocent'; and their soul's haven't had the chance of getting saved yet. for an ideology/theology that loves death (and i'm not talking about all types of christianity here, just the extremists at the head of the anti-abortion movement), an adult's death just isn't such a big deal relative to a fetus. that, in addition to the 'abortion providers are mass murderers rhetoric' is what made Dr. Tiller's murder possible.
That was actually pretty helpful.
As an atheist, I totally overlooked that side of their logic.
Thanks.
I think there is a difference between actual bodily harm taking place in the moment and shooting an unarmed man simply because you feel he commits murder.
Cops will arrest you if you shoot a man in the back, even if he broke into your house. However, if he was facing you, then you can shoot him.
Because he's an immediate threat. Not a possible one.
Maybe that's not a great example but I'm at work so that's all I have at the moment :)
Perhaps you're confused about what pacifism entails?
There is no inherent contradiction to these people. Murder is the taking of innocent life while death is what happens when non-innocent life is taken.
Of course, I think they are horribly, horribly wrong.
I've read a good argument why his murder is immoral (and considered murder) by people who consider him a murderer, because there are ways you could stop him from providing abortions without killing him (and thus protect his life, which is also sacred). I think that is a good argument, and I hope most of the radical pro-lifers believe something along those lines. But, do all of the extreme pro-lifers think like that? And if not, why would they consider this such a horrible crime. I just find the initial reaction a bit confusing, personally.
I find anyone using that logic confusing because Dr. Tiller performed those less than 2% of abortions that take place after the fourth month to women with unhealthy or life-threatening pregnancies. I don't know this for a fact, but I think most people who consider themselves pro-life support abortion rights in cases where the woman's health or life is in danger. I just think that because I believe most people are at least somewhat reasonable, even when it's abortion we're talking about.
At the National Press Club, no less! Talk about providing a platform...!
Someone needs to satirize him by calling for the murder of women who have had abortions as well as "irresponsible" mothers who have had miscarriages.
Cuz that's what he's saying!
Also, I believe he's using Jesus's logic of "those who live by the sword, die by the sword."
Jesus spoke that phrase as part of a pronouncement against violence:
"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword." Matt 26:52
You keep pulling bible quotes out of context like that and you'll be ready to start your own church. :P
I know that Jesus is talking about non-violence, but I'm saying Mr. Terry is the one taking it out of context---that's his religious justification of why Dr. Tiller was murdered.
These anti-choice fascists are so un-American and need to move out of the United States and go somewhere else, where they will be welcomed in a repressive, oppressive nation that restricts people's personal freedom.
While I agree with your sentiments, personally, I would like to point out that among libertarians (who tend to be relative purists when it comes to individual freedoms, even when they have negative social consequences), there is a split between pro-life and pro-choice individuals. There seem to be more pro-choicers, but I do think that most pro-lifers, at least among this relatively small political group, are not really anti-"choice" as they are pro-life. They really think it's akin to, if not precisely, murder. It's hard to understand why, for me, but I don't think it's as simple as being about control.
While I agree with your sentiments, personally, I thought you were English. ;)
God, those anti-choice bastards don't have a fucking clue. By their logic, killing the fetus is murder, so the punishment for that should be murder? Why of course. So glad to know we're back to the good ol' days of eye-for-an-eye. Hope Tiller's murderer gets the electric chair. Oh, but then we'll have to kill the chair, and the person who pulled the switch, and the person who approved the chair, and the electric company for providing the electricity, and...
I still don't understand how anti-choice people could say that Dr.Tiller was a sadistic man who made money off of murder. This man risked his LIFE and the safety of his family to provide safe medical care for women who needed his help. Late term abortions aren't just for the hell of it. There is almost always a concern either for the mother or the fetus.
So, he 'reaped what he sowed' is not correct. He deserved to live in peace and quiet. He maybe even deserved a freakin medal. Dying in a blaze of gunfire in the foyer of his place of worship is not what he 'sowed'.
Why do anti-choice people often only care about life until a person is born?
I know most here aren't fans of the Catholic church, but just an FYI:
Statement of the Bishops of Kansas
"We, the four Catholic Bishops of the Dioceses of Kansas, unequivocally condemn the murder of Dr. George Tiller that occurred in Wichita earlier today. The Catholic Church believes that every human life is sacred.
"The murder of a human being is the gravest of crimes and is an intrinsic evil. Such an act of violence against human life is a contradiction of the most fundamental principle of the Pro-Life movement.
"The fact that this attack occurred in a church, a place of prayer and worship, only adds to the horror of this terrible crime.
"We prayerfully commend Dr. George Tiller to the mercy of God and we pray for comfort and consolation for his family and friends.
Most Reverend Joseph F. Naumann, Archbishop of Kansas City in Kansas
Most Reverend Ronald M. Gilmore, Bishop of Dodge City
Most Reverend Paul S. Coakley, Bishop of Salina
Most Reverend Michael O. Jackels, Bishop of Wichita
Randall Terry recently converted to Catholicism, so you will note that he doesn't explicitly praise of condone the murder of Dr. Tiller, he only smugly implies it as a good thing.
To a lot of the readers on this site I'm sure the Bishops and Terry seem like the same big bunch of assholes (and in certain ways they can be) but I didn't want Terry's idiocy to stand for the church when they have a clear position against violence.
The problem that I have with that statement is that there's nothing about the women he helped. They "commend" Dr. Tiller, but for what? If "every human life is sacred," why not say that Dr. Tiller saved women's lives and limited the suffering of thousands of children? Well, maybe they wouldn't really get suffering, since reducing suffering isn't part of Catholicism. Maybe they wouldn't understand the woman bit either.
I think you misunderstand the statement:
com·mend
1. To represent as worthy, qualified, or desirable; recommend.
2. To express approval of; praise. See Synonyms at praise.
3. To commit to the care of another; entrust.
The Bishops are using "commend" as definition 3.
-- but I didn't want Terry's idiocy to stand for the church when they have a clear position against violence.
Nice as far as it goes. Now, if they only weren't willing to let a 9-year-old girl die when her uncle rapes her and gets her pregnant with twins, rather than budge a millimeter from their zero-tolerance stance. I say that as a gratefully longtime ex-Catholic.
I am gratefully re-united with the Catholic church... but as for defending *THAT* move? I got nothin.
I wonder what he'll sow for leaving his ex-wife for a much younger woman and being such an asshole to his children.
Bahaha!
I got a good giggle out of this.
What a horrible and un-Christian thing to say! Whatever happened to loving your enemies? So much for being the righteous Christians they claim to be.
Because, I believe, they are not actually FOLLOWING Christianity or the Bible, they are USING it to their advantage - to support and/or defend their radical pro-hate, anti-women beliefs.
I think we're making a mistake by trying to understand people like Terry and Roeder rationally. These belief systems are not necessarily logic-driven, but rather are emotion-driven, which is why inconsistencies keep popping up. That doesn't mean, however, that we shouldn't call them out on their hypocrisy.
I can't stand Randall Terry and his tactics, and this recent statement was just tasteless. Where is his respect for human life outside the womb?
Okay...so I wonder how exactly people like him justify killing anyone. It just goes to prove, in my opinion, that anti-choicers care about the baby until she/he is born...then she's/he's on her/his own. What happens to their right to life protests when someone is murdered in his church? Or is it only a right to life if you agree with me?
They say that everyone has the right to be born, but what about her/his right to live once they have been born. Dr. Tiller was a doctor who believed and fought for women's right to chose what goes on with their body. He was killed for it. Where is the justification in that? Explain to me, because I fail to see what is so Christian and "prolife" about killing a man.
I think it's appalling that anyone could say that this doctor reaped what he sowed. Prolife leadership needs to condemn the murder or else they are guilty of inciting the type of hatred that leads to tragedies like this. Anyone who truly believes themselves to be "prolife" needs to be consistent and also value the life of the doctor. Disagreements in ideology should be expressed with words and not violence. There is no justification for what happened.
The following pro-life organizations have made official statements condemning the murder of Dr. Tiller:
LifeNews.com
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
Texas Right to Life
Care Net
Oregon Right to Life
Population Research Institute
Pro-Life Action Ministries
Consistent Life
Illinois Right to Life Committee
Presbyterians Pro-Life
Georgia Right to Life
Center for Arizona Policy
Ohio Right to Life
Tennessee Right to Life
Missouri Right to Life
This is not a complete list, I got these names by typing "pro-life condemn murder" into google and clicking on the first link. So it's not difficult to see that they do condemn these actions.
You might not agree with their stand on abortion, but it's unfair to characterize them as supporting violence just because you're unaware of their activities and views.
This reminds me of after 9/11, conservative idiots demanding that muslims renounce violence and terrorism when the vast majority of muslims were against terrorism before and after 9/11 and had already said so.
One thing that has always confused me as well is that so many "pro-lifers" are also for the death penalty...me thinks hypocrisy is thy name.
I saw the video and right away I remembered this blog on Huffingtonpost.com that I read a couple days ago.
Its by Frank Schaeffer, and titled: 'How I (and Other "Pro-Life" leaders) Contributed to Dr. Tiller's Murder'
nice to have someone admit it!
check it out!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/how-i-and-other-pro-life_b_209747.html
I think anti-choice is more appropriate a name for pro-lifers. They may want to save "babies," but so many also don't feel the need to preserve the life of women and courageous people like Tiller. They don't care about life but restricting the choices women should be able to make without interference.
That's a very unfair generalization.
You talk like pro lifers are out to ruin women's lives. Sure, some are, but most genuinely think that its murder and that nobody has the right to choose that.
No, I realize this. I should have added the disclaimer "pro-lifers who agree that Tiller deserved to be murdered." But, honestly, thinking that a fetus trumps the right of a woman and her bodily autonomy...well, that's a good way to "ruin" a woman's life, imo. Both camps are on the side of preserving the rights of somebody - I just think that a woman's overrides a fetus'.
This guy is just crazy-pants. All I can think about is how Obama just gave that wonderful speech at Notredame, trying to bring some understanding an compassion to both sides of the fence, and I feel like that's all been unraveled. (sorry for the run-on sentence)
You're killing babies. You're taking human life.
http://www.lifenews.com/state4203.html
Abortion Activists Forget George Tiller Killed, Injured Women in Botched Abortions
Why don't 'feminists' do more to help mothers keep their babies? more often than not they want to, they are MOTHERS already with life in the womb. Especially when they see the 4-d sonograms.
You're killing future feminists in the womb.
When did George Tiller's life begin?
If you're a feminist, a true one, you simply cannot be pro-abortion. You would love and honor women and girls.
And how come it's the men doing the abortions, killing children?
Isn't there an ounce of intellectual honesty on this board, which is a faux feminist board covering for the radical pro-aborts?