Bad-ass high school students get misogynist songs banned from prom
Twenty songs that refer to women as "hos" and other derogatory names won't be played at the Arcadia High prom Saturday night.That's because senior Madeline Conrique and fellow members of the Women's Health and Issues Club brokered a deal with school administrators limiting songs with misogynistic themes and lyrics.
The group wasn't making a push for squeaky clean Disney pop groups. Club member Lani Luo says, "We are not trying to push for abstinence...We are just trying to advocate for respect."
Awesome.
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Good for them. I've been listening to a workout podcast lately while I jog, and its mostly hip hop/ rap music. I hate it when a song comes on with a good beat for jogging and then after a few seconds the lyrics turn out to be something like "I bend that ho over the sofa." Would hate to be dancing at prom and hear something like that.
Wow, every time I start underestimating high schoolers something like this comes out.
It does hit me, however, that out of the 1000ish people who are expected to attend Prom, only 130 people signed the partition.
That rules.
Holy crap! My brother went to Arcadia. Too bad he's on base right now or I'd text him : /
That's so amazing! I can only imagine the resistance they came up against with a request like that. It makes it that much more awesome to see it worked. Congratulations Women's Health and Issues Club of Arcadia High!
I read the article and most of the comment board with it, and it turns out the 130 petition signers were out of the whole student pop., not just out of the 1000 prom attendees.
The comment board on the article is really nasty though. Some of the students from the high school are commenting. The consensus seems to be that the girls who created the petition are "whiny bitches" who don't know what's cool and who don't know how to get over when bad things happen. A lot of people are saying stuff like "if these girls can't take sexist songs lyrics they'll fail at life when stuff gets really hard".
"if these girls can't take sexist songs lyrics they'll fail at life when stuff gets really hard"...yeah, either that or ORGANIZE and create the change they wish to see.
'Cause life is totally about letting people walk all over you and not standing up for yourself when someone says something disrespectful.
"they'll fail at life when stuff gets really hard"
No, they won't. They'll survive and succeed in those touch situations where the people with no self-respect who are all ho this, ho that buckle.
I support this...but I generally think that hip hop gets unfairly singled out in cultural critique. Most pop and rock is made by men, and a lot of it contains the same misogynistic and objectifying messages as hip hop, in less explicit lyrics. Rock bands are known for promiscuity, womanizing and groupies.
Should we be criticizing the lyrics, or the message behind them?
I can't help but see a racial aspect to this.
What kind of music do you think gets played at prom?
Misogyny is misogyny is misogyny. Does it matter what color it is? Woman is the n*&&#@ of the world - Yoko Ono.
"Woman is the n- of the world" totally erases the existence and oppression of black women. Read this post.
I don't really need to read the article you direct me to (I took a brief look and it seems the quote is not properly attributed, which is irritating. It was Yoko Ono, not John Lennon). I may, however, read the article you suggest later on...
Anyway, replace the word n-----. The *point* I make is what matters here, not the quote.
If these students selected these songs there's a reason, and by second-guessing the students and claiming there's a racist motivation I feel that's unfair. I understand what you are expressing, however I think what's at is issue is misgogyny. Are there rock songs that are misogynistic? Of course, but hip-hop is currently more popular, isn't it.
Yeah...I'm not really a fan of that quote. Definitely read the womanist-musing link from questioning?.
You'd be hard pressed to find popular music that did not have some mysogonistic undertones in one way or another. But that's not really what high school students think about- they notice the lyrics. And race aside, hip hop artists are notorious for using sexist slang and writing about sex in a derogatory way. There is hip hop that's not sexist, just like there's rock music that is as well, obviously. You're right, its not fair to single out hip hop alone, but when we're talking sexist lyrics, hip hop is at the forefront.
Well, are they notorious for it because there's more misogyny in hip-hop lyrics than in rock lyrics? Or because the media pays more attention to it with hip-hop? I'm really not sure.
I think I generally listen to hip-hop lyrics more closely than rock lyrics, maybe because they tend to be higher up in the mix. So I notice misogyny in hip-hop more often than rock... but that doesn't necessarily mean that more of it exists.
I listened to popular rock and popular randb/hip-hop radio growing up in the nineties and there was way more explicit misogyny in the randb/hip-hop. I actually payed allot of attention to the lyrics, prob more of the rock cause that is what I prefer. Now, there was also allot more about violence and such in the rock that I noticed too.
Either way, you can mind misogyny and violence as well as positive messages in both genres (especially on the stuff not played on the radio), but I think the perceived misogyny of mainstream randb/hiphop is somewhat based on actual misogyny and exacerbated by stereotypes and racism.
Just my thought but as a kid who always listened for meaning in songs, I found hiphop/randb they made me listen to on the school bus completely shocking and derogatory.
Yeah, I can see the racism too - especially at what appears to be a largely non Black school.
What good news! As kittycat states, they must have come up against resistance, so good for them for speaking up!!
"Women's Health and Issues Club"
Wish there had been one of those at my school. ROCK ON.
I think that's great. I remember when I first went away to university, I was really pleased by how much the brochures emphasized wanting to make people of all genders, ethnicities, and sexual orientations feel welcome and safe. Then I showed up to the welcoming activities to find the committee blaring a song that talked about murdering gays and raping underage girls.
They had Solider Boy playing at my effing orientation! My mother was there with me! I wanted to die.
Not to minimize, but I have a feeling the administration kinda wanted to do this anyway, and the Arcadia WH&IC gave them cover. Again, not to say this was the wrong thing to do by any means.
Though I share questioning's concerns, especially given the use of "hos" in the example. Is the Stones' "Under My Thumb" barred?
I want to make sure I'm clear: what the students who circulated the petition did was not easy. But I'm thinking LBJ, not Rosa Parks.
I remember being highly disturbed in high school at some of the music they would play. Good for this school's group. They have done a fine thing.
I agree with commenter, questioning?, above. While this type of activism among awesome young feminists is cool, targeting sexist songs as those whose lyrics contain the word "ho" is a racialized approach. What about other forms of misogyny in non-rap and hip hop genres?
Of course, it would have been more difficult to make that case and draw the line at what "constitutes" sexist lyrics...but I can't help but look at this, at least in part, as another example of marginalization of voices of color in the mainstream feminist movement.
I still think this is an amazing group of high school women that organized to make this happen. But it's more complicated than that.
It says "hos and other derogatory names." There's no indication that they're only censoring hip hop--- they're censoring derogatory language. Do you have an example of another song you'd like them to censor? And if so, how do you know they're not already getting rid of that song?
I really don't think the OP was specific enough about what songs they're getting rid of to interpret it as racist.
I think there are enough hip hop songs that don't use derogatory language that I bet there could still be mostly hip hop playing at the prom.
Now if they would just pull up those damn pants.
Congrats to their accomplishment! In reading the comments after the article....wow. First, most of the people against this move use ad hominem attacks against the people to agree with the move, and also used incorrect assumptions (like the guy who said that the seniors are ALL going to get drunk and have sex after prom anyway....really? I didn't.) Just goes to show how feeble their arguments are, and shows how misogynistic they are and why this was needed.
I wish I was this amazing in High School.
Was anyone else floored (in a good way) that the school actually has a Women's Health and Issues Club ? For an administration to approve a club like that and have faculty support (my dinky backwoods highschool had all sorts of limitations. I think that in itsself is pretty cool.
Hey! That's my high school (now I'm an almost-graduate of UC Berkeley). I wish we had had a Women's Health and Issues Club back in my day.
Damn, I really wish some one would have done this at my high school! My prom was on Saturday and I felt rather guilty dancing to all the terrible, terrible misogynistic songs they played. Actually I was just thinking of writing a post called "Prom and Gender Roles." The music is just one of the reasons prom is pretty sexist/heteronormative. I kind of felt ridiculous that I actually did it.
Me too. I only went because my boyfriend threatened to take a "mean girl" if I didn't go with him. What a fantastic relationship.
Niiiiice. I'm really glad they had the support of the faculty. At my prom, my friends and I put bags of condoms in the bathrooms. The security guard kinda waved us through because she knew it's necessary, but other security guards and the principal locked down the bathrooms and confiscated the bags. It was seriously frustrating.
That is totally awesome for Arcadia! Those girls rock. Jessica? You think we could do something, like...I don't know send these awesome girls some emails, or maybe even feministing goodies to show how totally rockin' we think they are?
This is so great! I love seeing young feminists in action! Congrats girls!!
I like the sentiment here and the fact that there's a group like this with enough motivation and self-respect to make this proposal, but I am uncomfortable with censorship/banning in general. Given that a small minority of the students agreed to the petition and they aren't establishing principles to outline how to approve/disapprove songs for prom, it is very close to censorship. However, for me, the bottom line is best expressed by Juno: "You know, Prom is for wenis's anyway. As soon as you're old enough to go it's so not cool anymore."
If you don't like censorship I highly recommend that you forego high school, because it's basically a conveyor belt of censorship from what students are allowed to write in their papers, what books teachers are allowed to assign, what spiritual and religion beliefs can be brought into the curriculum, what language and words students are allowed to use with each other and their instructors, and so forth.
Singling out this, of all things, as "very close to censorship" shows, to me, a bit of naivety regarding how "freedom of speech" operates in public schools. There are decisions on a daily basis about what's okay in schools and what isn't, some good (not teaching religion) and some bad (not teaching safe sex) and they're anything but "majority rules" or "established principles". Sometimes it can all hinge on one complaining parent, sometimes the protests of many are virtually ignored.
If you're worried about "censorship" in a schools, there's a lot more out there than choosing non-misogynistic songs for an extracurricular event.
All censorship sucks. I'm guessing duck was signaling this instance out because this was the instance the blog post was about, not because this is the worst censorship ever.
I think your application and value judgment of "censorship" here is a bit wonky, frankly.
I don't see how your statement "I don't like this so you shouldn't like it either--in fact, you shouldn't even be able to listen to it!" applies to this situation. These students aren't saying no one else should like it or listen to it. Nor are they even preventing anyone from listening to it! The musicians can still make their music, the radio stations can still play it, the kids can still buy it, and they can listen to it whenever they'd like - they could easily, for example, bring their iPods to the dance - but the school administrators aren't going to play it.
The idea that any person or institutional body who says "we aren't going to use or promote this content" is practicing censorship is, to me, really stretching the context in which censorship meaningfully applies.
I guess you're right. I can see your point as to how this isn't censorship. I was probably trying to be all dramatic for effect.
Something about the process still doesn't sit completely right with me. Maybe it just seems like the entire student body could have been made party to this decision. Or maybe singling out the word "ho" or other given slurs doesn't look at what the songs are actually about, and how sexist they actually might be.
Although honestly not many people will be doing deep thinking about the artistic intent and possible implicit sexism behind the songs they are dancing to at prom night.
Kids have terrible taste in music, though I suppose I would be upset if I were attending a prom in which I had spent a great deal of money on to dance to not my favorite music because someone else has deemed it offensive. I would be equally frustrated by spending money and effort to attend prom and be expected to listen to music I found offensive. Owing to my thesis, kids have terrible taste in music, I submit it's easier to cater to the needs of the second group: there's lots of terrible hip-hop that kids love that doesn't drop ho.
I am sort of in love with the OA commenter who decries all of hip-hop as shit in favor of Nickelback and John Legend.
The only reason we singled out rap/hip-hop is because that's whats usually played at our school dances, it's not that we're being racist, or denying that rock and other genres play degrading music, we just wanted to make the biggest impact as we possibly could with so little choices... I mean they aren't going to play "Under My Thumb" at prom, they're going to play popular songs, that everyone can easily dance too. I'm sorry if we ever gave the impression of being racist, we are definitely not, there's many different races represented by the members of the group. :]
The best thing about this, to me, is that the issue was raised, and that people are discussing it. The intensely misogynist culture of prom needs critiquing, but I don't see this happening. As with so many things, I see this as a positive but completely simplistic step--what if the move's opponents are correct in claiming that a huge majority of prom-goers WANT to listen to misogynist music? What kind of values does this reflect? Along with the hateful comments posted to the OA, the fact that this is an isolated change and has not been widely accepted outlines exactly what kind of ignorant, hideous values predominate in high schools. ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh
I don't see any way out of it. The norm in popular music has long been to degrade women.
Yay!! I get to go against the grain again! (at least the grain for this website).
I'm against all censorship. This is censorship. Believe me, I can empathize with the filers of this petition. I'm a vegan, a pacifist, and extremely liberal--so all the time I run into stuff in the culture that rubs me the wrong way.
It sucks but I handle it. I don't know. . .I wouldn't get any satisfaction out of telling other people, "I don't like this so you shouldn't like it either--in fact, you shouldn't even be able to listen to it!"
But that's not what we're saying, we don't want this played at school events. If we played music with racial or religious slurs it wouldn't be acceptable for school standards, so why is it okay for sexism to be at school functions?
from the article - most people don't seem to share your views - is there a real danger of your members being "blacklisted" if you do more of this in the "real world"?
Well a lot of rap songs have the word "nigga" in them and although a lot of times it's used in a playful or matter-of-fact way, in many songs its used in a derogatory way. I wouldn't support having a blanket ban of these songs for school events either.
But I do get your point. And I should say that even if I may have slight disagreements with you I tremendously respect that you are doing something so bold and potentially not popular at this age. You should definitely stay with activism; it's very important. And the world needs more active feminists!
The groups is not preventing other students from listening to music with misogynist lyrics. Nor is it saying "you can't like this!" (which is impossible anyway). The members organized around a cause - no school-sponsored misogyny - and won. When you think of these prom songs as school-sponsored degradation of women, maybe the issue will look a bit different. This is not censorship. The school rooting through the kids' private music collections or regulating what they can listen to on their own time. It's decided they're not going to listen to misogynist music on SCHOOL time at the SCHOOL prom.
Misogynist lyrics transcend music genres. I just wrote about the racism and misogyny of "Brown Sugar," in fact. But like the student said, high schools don't play the Rolling Stones at proms in 2009. Geez.
Wow. I am so amazed at the courage and drive of the students who organized this and had the balls to go for it. If I had done this at my high school (in a very liberal town), the other students would have laughed it down except for probably 200 out of 2000. I cannot imagine the walls that came up for them, but they did it! I'm amazed. Props!
funny that I've read more than one post saying, "other genres are just as demeaning towards women." umm... obviously you haven't listened to much hip hop/rap.