So my friend Andrew Marantz came up with the idea to collect people's lists of the four most overrated things--inspired by just such a list by grumpster Christopher Hitchens ("champagne, lobsters, anal sex, and picnics"). Ever since he invited me to participate, it has been taking over my brain, so I warn you now, it might do the same to you.
I won't reveal what I finally submitted because it hasn't been unveiled yet, but you should submit yours to Andrew at overratedlist@gmail.com. Meanwhile, I thought I'd post a feminist version with a twist over here at feministing. And yes, the whole exercise is meant to be controversial. It's not fun to declare "the patriarchy" as overrated, for example, because we all know that.
Overrated:
1. the abortion debate
2. gender and sexual binaries
3. women's innate peacefulness
4. nonprofits
Underrated:
1. class critique
2. young women
3. male feminists
4. birth control
Add your lists in comments!
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I actually think patriarchy is underrated based on the fact that not a lot of people actually know what patriarchy is and think of it as some sort of shadowy conspiracy against women. Patriarchy really effects all people and it is something that I think all people should at least understand, no matter what their views on gender.
Overrated
1. Women in the media, gender in the media, etc.
2. Male feminists
3. Sexual violence.
4. Body issues.
[They are all important to varying degrees, they just get a disproportionate amount of coverage]
Underrated
1. Patriarchy
2. Women and Capitalism
3. Trans Issues and Feminism
4. Motherhood
[Extremely important yet don't get a ton of coverage]
I feel like a hear way more about the general concept of Male/Man Feminism/Feminists than I do about actual Male/Man Feminists.
I feel like I hear way more about the general concept of Male/Man Feminism/Feminists than I do about actual Male/Man Feminists.
There are many on this site. We're a visible minority on here.
Overrated:
-porn stars
-fake lesbians making out in bars
-female celebrities famous for their looks
-chick lit authors (female... of course)
-Sex and the City and all that romantic comedy crap
Underrated:
-intelligent women
-real lesbians getting married
-female celebrities famous for their smarts
-literary fiction authors (female)
-Resident Evil and big budget/action franchises with female leads
ONE MORE THING!
Overrated:
-Suicide Girls
Underrated:
-Punk rock females who won't take their clothes off.
SERIOUSLY, I am so fucking sick of people telling me I should pose naked for SG... fuck you, NO!
I love this line in Emilie Autumn's song "Thank God I'm Pretty":
"I know my destiny's such, that I'm all stocking and curl, so everybody thinks that I'm a fucking Suicide Girl."
"If you ain't dead, you ain't a suicide girl."-Sage Francis, "Midgets and Giants"
Emilie Autumn is absolutely kick ass! She is underrated in my opinion...
Overrated
1. Motherhood--love my kids, but Hallmark it ain't.
2. Marriage--ditto.
3. "working for a living"--I'd be okay with myself if I just got a check for staying home. Really.
4. Sex--it's great, for real, but definitely doesn't resemble in the smallest fashion all the hype.
Underrated
1. Books!
2. The smell of baby powder.
3. Motorcycles
4. Hillary Clinton--she kicks ass as Sec of State and would have been a kick-ass POTUS.
yeeeees! thank you for saying motherhood is overrated. I myself NEVER want to have any kids!
Ditto on "working for a living." Mainly because I'm incredibly lazy.
I am totally with you on the smell of baby powder!
Also on Hillary Clinton!
I want to know why nonprofits are overrated. :)
I've been learning a lot about the ways in which the nonprofit system actually creates hierarchies that don't help people. See The Revolution Will Not be Funded by INCITE! Women of Color and other good writing on the "nonprofit industrial complex." Naomi Klein also has a lot of great writing about the ways in which, for example, the Ford Foundation has funded things that it is actually causing in a round about way. See The Shock Doctrine.
I'm not saying, btw, that it's impossible to be a nonprofit and avoid some of this, just good food for thought about a field that mostly gets glowing treatment.
Adding to what Courtney said, a lot of nonprofits have the problem of the privileged group paternalistically swooping in and wanting to fix everything for the nonprivileged group - and sometimes you don't even get them wanting to fix things. For example, in the autistic rights movement a lot of the charities/nonprofit/autism organisations are pretty much actively hostile to autistic self-advocates, work counter to many of the aims actual autistic people espouse and then soak up all the media coverage, set the tone of dialogue about autistic rights and get all the donations by people wanting to give to a good cause who aren't educated about the issues.
Some nonprofits (esp. humongous ones) suck, play into privileged structures, aren't effective in the long term, ect. ect. Some are fantastic, understand and confront these potential traps, and are powerful sources of personal and social change. There is immense variety within nonprofits. To know which are which, do research. There are lots of resources -- guidestar.org and give.org are easy places to start seeing where their money is spent, and you should also look at annual reports.
I think nonprofits as a concept are both overrated and underrated, especially from a feminist point of view. They're overrated when they're thought of as the only viable avenue for change; they're underrated by being dismissively discussed as a "female" industry with the implication that the sweet little ladies will do their charity work and let us men get on with the real jobs.
BOO at nonprofits being overrated. Sounds like people are judging nonprofits as a whole by some that might not be the best in the world. They serve an important purpose, and just like anthing run by people, some have problems.
I don't think anyone's suggesting throwing out nonprofits entirely. It's just that a lot of people think nonprofit = automatically good, let's donate to get our good deed of the day done. It's important to realise that there may be problems with their goals or the way they're run and that you should look further into them before deciding to support them.
Overrated
1. not calling yourself a feminist
2. political parties
3. shaving
4. Sex (esp. masturbation) - I agree, it's wonderful, but it doesn't deserve all the hoopla
Underrated
1. the similarities between animal rights and women's rights
2. male feminists
3. how patriarchy negatively effects men
4. critiquing porn and disney movies
If I could redo my list, I would add 'political parties' to overrated too!
Definitely agree with you on the similarities between animal rights and women's rights! If you study the origins of the animal rights movement (in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries), you'll find that it ties in directly with women's voices. Eco-feminist voices anyone?
Sorry, I meant to reply to 'pluralist', but 'Punchbuggy Green', I like your list as well, especially the women and religion one.
Your Underrated list is spot-on!
Overrated:
1. The Federal Government
2. Complete Rationality
3. Argument
4. Red Bull & Vodka
Underrated:
1. Local and State Politics
2. Feminism in Religion
3. Real Discussion
4. Non-Mainstream Movies
I, too, would like to know what makes nonprofits overrated :\
Overrated:
-Binaries
-Gay Marriage (please see below before you think I'm a bigot)
-Your simple, formulaic RomComs
-Theory
Underrated
-Trans issues
-Gay RIGHTS
-Complicated, bittersweet stories that aren't always clean cut and simple
-Practice
About nonprofits,
I've being feeling really conflicted recently after learning more and more about certain nonprofit organizations. I know that organizations need money to run and do their thing, but unfortunately this sometimes tends to happen at the expense of their goals (or what their goals should be).
For example, certain nonprofit organizations have actually been creating a lot of problems in Tanzania due to a process called 'scaling up' in which they essentially try to procure more power and access to international funding by acting on the interests of their most affluent donors. This donor may have the idea that the most important thing to do is, say, conserve the charismatic megafauna. That is, elephants and pretty things that people like to look at and visit and help stimulate the economy. Unfortunately, this often acts against native people living on the land. The non profit organization in this case might actually exploit the native peoples living on these lands in the interest of acting on the highest donor's wishes and actually help to ensure that people cannot have access to the lands and resources that their lives depend on.
Seems screwed up, I know.
Big differences between nonprofits in general and just 'some.'
Yeah. I think nonprofits became really problematic when local governments asked to be the ones to distribute money. Before that local groups got money directly from the Feds and as a result took a very radical, grassroots approach to local governments (dumping trash on city hall to protest lack of garbage collection and such). Local governments stepped in and as a result nonprofits tried to stay on their good side to keep funding. At an international level there is a tendency to be paternalistic and also to focus almost completely on symptoms not diseases. Some agencies will focus so much on food aid they ignore setting up local banks to fund micro-loans, building wells and training local people on how to repair them, etc.
Overrated
U2
facebook
anything Apple
sea salt
Underrated
hot dogs
origami
homemade lemonade
actual apples
I am totally with you. There is a gaping crevasse between apple flavouring and apples. And maybe I have an unrefined palate but can anyone actually taste the difference between sea salt and table salt (assuming you were talking about consuming it)?
As someone who cooks a lot, as well as uses specialized sea salts, I completely understand the worth of sea salts! Beyond specialized sea salts, I really cannot stand the taste of regular table salt any longer. It is awful and has such metal tastes and distorts the natural tastes of foods!!!... since you asked :-)
This is exactly what I'm talking about.
I agree regarding sea salt. What the fuck is wrong with cheap old iodized?
And I only agree about U2 if it's Bono whose overrating we're talking. Otherwise, I think more people need to dig out War.
from what i understand, sea salt is better for you.
overrated:
1. list making
2. androgyny
3. socialism and socialist theory
4. looking at other countries as if they were models instead of analyzing the good and the bad where we are
5. buying organic
underrated:
1. modesty which is disconnected from puritanism
2. the power of anger to catalyze change
3. subversiveness
4. taking it upon yourself to become an outstanding person who changes the status quo of people in their peer group, class, or political group instead of fitting into it
modesty which is disconnected from puritanism
TRUTH
overrated
boobs
marriage
penis-in-vagina sex
romantic love
underrated
masturbation
condoms
cunnilingus
hamsters
Agreed that PIV sex is overrated. I first had sex a couple months ago, and I haven't quite figured out what's so great about it.
Yep, my feelings exactly. So many things besides good ol' intercourse that are better...
You're list=what I would want to write my list as.
Overrated:
1. Purity (duh!)
2. Sex (not that it isn't good)
3. Monogamy/Marriage
4. PMS (Overrated in a bad way, just like the damn swine flu! Yes, it has affected people, but jeez...)
Underrated:
1. Solitude
2. Reason and modernity
3. Size 8 and up (hell, size 2 and up!)
4. Exercising because it makes you feel good and not because you want to "improve" yourself
YES on exercising just because it makes you feel good and more energized...not to have a stomahc a few more centimeters flatter!
It really does pick me up when I'm in the dumps, even though I'm still not a supermodel :)
i LOVE sex. i mean, good sex obviously. especially good sex with someone youre totally in love with. but i totally think it deserves all the hype.
Overrated:
+ Burlesque
Underrated:
+ Capitalism and underprivileged nations as a core feminist issue
I agree... I'm so fucking sick of burlesque and everyone acting like it's sooo "feminist."
What's so bad about burlesque?
Ugh boo burlesque. It seems pretty much like a way for arty/lefty folk to get off at the sexual objectification of women without feeling guilty on account of it's so subversive and empowering.
Word. Kitsch Olde-Tyme sexism is somehow not sexism?
o: burlesque
u: Burl Ives
Overrated:
1.Female Executives
2.Legal struggles and politicians
3.Open relationships
4.College and college students
5.Pot
Underrated:
1.Anarcha-Feminism!
2.eco-feminism-- no one takes it seriously, but it makes a lot of sense
3.Women's history
4.Feminist Porn
what exactly is considered feminist porn?
Well, here's the criteria for the feminist porn awards, to give you an idea: “1) A woman had a hand in the production, writing, direction, etc. of the work; 2) It depicts genuine female pleasure; 3) It expands the boundaries of sexual representation on film and challenges stereotypes that are often found in mainstream porn.”
And generally I think the idea of openly being a feminist who openly likes porn and respects sex workers and doesn't think they're just being taken advantage of is underrated.
So what's anarcha-feminism? Does it involve spiders?
Sorry, but IMHO feminist porn is an oxymoron, and seeing sex workers as taken advantage of just means you've stepped outside the privilege bubble
Overrated
Men
college/grades
underrated
women
sororities
not having any debt
Overrated:
- Men as "authorities" on abortion (e.g. William Saletan)
- Aversion to paying taxes
Underrated:
- Comprehensive sex ed as a political issue
- "Other" birth control methods (IUDs, NuvaRing)
diaphragms!
OMG Saletan is the definition of overrated
Agreed! I love my NuvaRing.
Overrated
1. H1N1 Flu
2. Bottled Water
3. Celebrity Gossip
4. GPAs
Underrated
1. Musicals
2. Partners in Health & Paul Farmer
3. Generation Y
4. AIDS Epidemic
Over-rated:
-politicians' spouses and personal lives
-motherhood
-meat
-romance (champagne and rose petals)
-'Little Women' and 'Little House on the Prairie'
Under-rated
-feminist churches (and other religious institutions)
-Eco-feminism!!
-Movies with women in the top billing
-Trees
-Frances Burney (contemporary writer of Jane Austen)
-
Holy shit, I am glad you mentioned "Little Women." For a while there, I was totally in love with Jo March. I probably still am.
Jo March was my very first feminist role model at the ripe age of 9/10. She will NEVER be overrated in my book!
Hate Little Women. Love Little House. In my opinion they're not even in the same league in terms of genuine emotion, plot, depiction of family, or even gender issues.
Overrated
1.Sexism in the media
2.Purity
3.Clothing
4.NOT Sex
Underrated
1.Male feminists
2.Sex Ed
3.Female and Male positive porn
4.LGBTQ rights ans issues
Overrated:
1. the "mommy wars"
2. academia
3. consumer activism
4. femininity as rebellion
Underrated:
1. local communities
2. bisexuality
3. psychedelic drugs
4. unions
I'm really curious as to what "femininity as rebellion" means. Enlighten?
Not to derail but...Psychedelic drugs = my number one underrated thing ever.
Overrated:
1. Bras (hateee them)
2. Gender/race/age/other annoying social constructs!
3. the terms "respect your elders" and "everything happens for a reason"
4.
Underrated:
1. Intelligent, social, and political hip hop
2. feminism
3. pomosexuality
4. Yoohoo.
I've only had yoohoo once, but I loved it!!!
everything happens. :>
what is yoohoo?
I think Yoohoo is just chocolate milk?
Technically there is no milk in it, but it's so good lol.
Oooh, I want to play!
Overrrated:
1) Rush Limbaugh (retire or shut up already)
2) Michelle Obama's dress style
3) Ms. California's impact in the 2010 elections and the overturn of gay marriage.
4) Barack Obama's skin color
Underrated
1) A nice London Broil
2) Oral sex!
3) The community portion of the blog
4) Monty!
London broil? Really? You must be a better cook than I am. I have to marinate the shit out of the stuff, and then it's satisfying for steak sandwiches but not quite worth the effort.
Well, I can cook - not sure if I do it well. I haven't died yet. ;)
The key to London broil is timing. We each have a special marinate we use, but whatever that might be, I suggest cooking it over a really hot grill, covered, and grilled for about 10 minutes. It'll be the tastiest, juicest, most wonderful piece of meat in the world! I usually have it over rice with a spinach salad, or in a spaghetti with tomato sauce!
We should start sharing recipes on feministing, too!
Overrated
-heteronormativity
-sweeping generalizations
Underrated
-female rock stars
-religion + feminism
capitalism is also overrated
Just a few more underrated:
Feminist theory
Jackson Katz
Overrated:
The supposed divide between the waves
"Post feminism."
Jackson Katz rocks!!!
Underrated
second wave feminism
Overrated
third wave feminism
(I came of age at the height of the second wave and often have a hard time with what I see as the fragmentation of feminism in the third wave)
Agreed. I love reading and hearing about second wave feminism. It makes me jealous of my mother's experiences :)
And an Underrated addition:
First wave feminism
I disagree, and that's exactly what I am talking about. Gone are the days of people like Marcia Pappas. We have a new way of doing business in feminism, and it seems rather than accepting changes, some 2nd-wavers are clinging on to past practices, resulting in things like the extremely embarrassing press release sent in January of 2008 when Ted Kennedy endorsed then Senator Obama.
I have no beef with 2nd-wave feminism, but it seems at time the 2nd-wave needs to stop attacking us for not being mature enough, not caring about the "real" issues, or not having a single focus.
Heaven forbid, we as feminists, care about issues other than gender and desire to cultivate our relationships.
Overrated
-marrying young
-professional sports
-lingerie ads disguised as fake female bands (pussycat dolls)
-bailouts for multinational corporations
Underrated
-Sci-fi written by women
-Real female-fronted bands (Camera Obscura, swoon!)
-Room service
-BROWN TRASH PUNK!
Oh oh! Katharine Kerr writes some good sci-fi, Snare, Palace and Polar City Blues are all very good. So's her fantasy series, just search for "Deverry" if you're interested. It's, uh, rather epic at this point, so I won't list the novels themselves.
Can I completely second women's sci-fi?
I'm taking the opportunity to shamelessly plug The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin. Again. And most of her other stuff is worth your time & money :))
Oh, I love Camera Obscura. I'm really enjoying their latest. :)
Overrated-
1.dinner dates
2.college grades
3.pretending to be a lesbian because it's "hot"
Underrated-
1.TAMPONS
2.handjobs (performed on women)
3.star trek!
4.home cooking
Could you explain why you feel tampons are underrated?
Overrated:
1. male feminists
2. road trips
3. literature reviews
4. bachelor's degrees
Underrated:
1. television
2. brenda weiler
3. women's studies
4. community colleges
Overrated
What's overrated about feminism?
Nothing! (high-five) I've been through enough women's studies classes to've embraced the Radical Solanas types and those who inherently distrust feminism in men (try saying some of that shit to my face, MercuricalGirl--it's not so easy, others have tried) and they both produce lasting organic accurate critique of me, and my shit.
Underrated
Female Sexual Appetite.
Historical perspectives
gender-free connotation of the term "feminist"
me.
Overrated:
Men who claim to be feminist but think it's okay to talk shit to women and try to challenge them in very patriarchal, forceful language. They're also the same one who demand the feminist title and that, somehow, if women don't accept them into the movement, that they have the right to be angry. Letting go of male entitlement is the first step of truly being a good ally, dude.
On second thought, Marc, maybe (just maybe) it isn't male feminists that are overrated, but the the excessive affirmation of male feminists that women feminists sometimes engage in. I look at this thread, and I can't help but think I don't have really have any desire to call you overrated, but I do have every desire to squash the inclination in me to feel particularly grateful or especially impressed with your comment because you are a man. This inclination that I have is shared by many, and I think it gives praise where it isn't necessarily due. Your apparent desire to refrain from using your male privilege to hurt or hinder other people is appreciated by those you don't hurt or hinder, don't get me wrong. But while my Intro to Women's Studies students don't go on and on praising each other for not burning crosses in the yards of African Americans, they can't seem to stop falling all over themselves about any man who calls himself a feminist or an ally. The seem to understand that trying not to be a racist is just what decent people do, but trying not to be a misogynist is an Earth shattering act of generosity or enlightenment.
I write all of that, in part, to be able to say thanks for calling someone out for me. I say that with an appropriate, gender-neutral, amount of praise. :-)
If you knew my name, and typed your challenge with that knowledge it would read, in part:
"try saying some of that shit to my face, Jessica"
And I genuinely hope that you would read that back before you clicked submit, and realize that it belongs in some sort of ally behind a bar or something, somewhere your angry, masculine sense of entitlement would feel more at home, though no less inappropriate.
Bah, I accidentally hit liked. Subtract 1 from that.
Hmm, this is a bit tricky. OK ...
Overrated:
- bottled water
- skinny and/or low rise jeans (seriously, I have an ass: pants need to have a place to put it)
- post feminism and post racism (and post anything-else)
- tax breaks
- sex (not bad, just doesn't live up to the hype)
Underrated:
- farm share
- walking
- staying in
- feminism men (more please!)
I love this! I agree with all of them but especially walking and staying in. I'm a total homebody but when I do go out I like to take walks! Walking is great exercise and great for clearing your head and having some relaxing "me time".
underrated
-native american issues
-stephin merritt
-dark chocolate
-male feminists
overrated
-california
-american liberals
-seafood
-male feminists
For a moment I thought you had Stephin Merritt listed as overrated, and I nearly cried.
i can't fathom a universe in which stephin merritt could be considered overrated. ;)
Overrated
-martyrdom
-Slumdog Millionaire
-discussions about sex and gender that begin and end at practical considerations of bathroom facilities
-love at first sight
-self-promotion as a skill (related to capitalism)
-vibrators
Underrated
-emotional intimacy
-high sex
-friendships among/between women
-female athletes
-hip hop
-crying
-audre lorde
Agreed, love at first sight is totally overrated and emotional intimacy is underrated.
Overrated
*Television
*driving
*Motherhood being essential to womanhood
*yoga
*chain of command
Underrated
*prairie grass
*common sense/decency
*girls with bruises
*a well stocked pantry
*a good pair of scissors and/or box cutters
girls with bruises. word.
girls with bruises... is that a band or do you actually have a thing for girls who have bruises?? cos that sounds like it would be on the non-feminist side of kinky...
I have a friend who plays roller derby, and the phrase "girls with bruises" made me think about her showing off her derby bruises with pride. I think you can interpret "girls with bruises" as meaning "girls being rough and physical and not caring if their participation in sports hinders their aesthetic appeal."
The list was otherwise solid so I'm assuming it's something like that, and not something about how women in pain being underrated.
Overrated:
- What cis people think about trans issues
- Theory
Underrated:
- What trans people think about trans issues
- Lived experience
Bonus underrated:
- Cis women making out with trans women
OVERRATED:
- Analyses of sexism in the media (yes, we know it exists already)
- Feminism presented as primarily cultural studies or sociology (important perhaps, but way too overrated)
- Parliamentarian/Party Politics (not where change is gonna come from)
- Women in Politics/Leadership-positions (who cares if a few women become parts of the patriarchy? Really?)
- Privileged celebrities who occasionally say something cute/intelligent/compassionate (I. do. not. care.)
- How wide-spread religious-conservative fundamentalism actually is (I hope and think that this is overrated. But this doesn't mean that the elitist organizations don't have too much power - the over-rating of their influence in ordinary people's culture and believes, though, is what helps them have all this power)
UNDERRATED:
- Equal pay and job opportunities (one of the essential feminist issues and one of the least "covered" themes)
- Health care (so much a feminist issue!)
- Accessible child care and guarantied right to family leave (how many women loose economic opportunities because of this lack? It doesn't matter that you don't need it: you're still discriminated against as a "potential" birth-giver)
- Analysis of society structures rather than individual symptoms
- Good, comprehensive education (sex-ed and otherwise)
... oh, and I am a "male feminist" (or pro-feminist or whatever you prefer to call it), but grew up in a very different culture with different struggles. That's why I'm highlighting some of them here. I didn't really call me anything until I moved to the US where everything I grew up with as pretty normal views and policies were suddenly extremely feminists.
Overrated:
- Itchy sweaters
- 24 hours news channels (I'll take the Daily Show over them, any time!)
- Evolutionary psychology
- Drinking (alcohol)
- Reality shows
Underrated:
- Non-binary gender and sexuality
- Vegetarianism
- How the patriarchy hurts men
- The influence of socialization and the social structure
Overrated:
- Anything low carb
- marriage
- Democrats
- self-promotion
- 'Flirty Girl Fitness,' and the like.
- 'progressive guys' who DON'T GET IT.
Underrated:
- WOC feminist contributions
- platonic friendship love
- cats
- Jean Grae
- feminist guys who DO get it, never silence, and defer appropriately to the experience of women.
Also Overrated:
-Organizations that claim to champion progressive causes, but mostly just help privileged kids buff up their resumes.
jean grae
Please, I beg of you, produce one of these men. I've never known a feminist man who I was not at some point revealed as an intimate terrorist of some kind.
I used to think I'd met one.
Not any more.
They are some of the rarest beings in this world. BUT I know one, and he is my coworker. Just one, but he exists.
my dad is one of those men. i've dated or been friends with at least four actually-feminist men, but i haven't found another one in at least 5 years. now i date women instead.
what the hell is an intimate terrorist?
I don't mean to speak for others, but I think the term is meant to describe an intimate partner who, on the outside, is politically progressive and might even claim the title feminist, but within the relationship, is either emotionally manipulative or even physically abusive. With the understanding of feminism and patriarchy, they then blame their actions on patriarchy. These are the men who, at the very least, haven't checked their privileges and while their bemoaning of patriarchy becomes just plain moaning when they expect a cookie for being feminists and don't get one.
In other words, men unlike Jackson Katz.
I think that is an excellent definition. A lot of people think of intimate terrorism as being especially violent, but others (myself included) see it as the best way to describe emotional abuse that includes manipulation, and the assertion of coercive control over behaviors and preferences, and even feelings and reactions.
Why can I not click "liked" more than once? :(
Haha! :)
Overrated:
- Media reinforced fear of gendered crime (yes it's real-- but the media's portrayal is outlandish and mis-representative!)
- Blood Sporting... cock fighting, dog fighting, etc. (SICK!)
- The status and importance of human beings in the biosphere as compared to other species... anthropocentrism.
- Factory Farming and Agribusiness
Underrated:
-Eco-feminism
-Sustainable farming/living
-the negative effects of a global epidemic of gendered violence
-the negative effects of the false ideology of a binary gender system(s)
- Expressive art therapies
under
1. the smell of crisp clean, freshly bleached white sheets
2. when my armpits smell like blueberries
3. being a "non traditional" student
4. great conversations over glasses of red wine
over
1. being drunk
2. lack of respect for elder populations
3. credit card debt
4. christian fundamentals who are worried about my uterus and who i chose to fuck
I wish my armpits smelled like blueberries!
Yeah! How do I get my armpits to smell like blueberries?
Wow this was fun to read! I love Brown Trash Punk's comments.
Overrated:
1.angelina jolie
2.blonde hair (no offense, I'm blondish)
3.pilots (as a flight attendant I hate to watch girls swoon over the cheating majority)
4.victoria secret fashion show
Underrated
1.the NY band Dormitory effect
2.DJ Baby Anne (guess it depends on the city, but the woman can drop bass)
3.how sexy women who don't shave are
4.natural breasts, real facial features, natural hair (no implants, botox, hair mousse
Gosh I could go on and on with the overrated!
Overrated:
1) flip-flops
2) college/high school parties
3) virginity
4) Starbuck's/dark roast coffee
5) dieting
Underrated:
1) sleeping topless
2) 50's music
3) cooking for yourself
4) questioning your beliefs
5) Third Parties
Overrated
1. Small Talk
2. Getting Straight A's
3. Sandwiches from Subway
4. The Suburbs
Underrated
1. The Kinks
2. College Towns
3. Shy, Introverted People
4. Dark, Sarcastic Humor
5
5 dollar
5 dollar foo-FUCK OFF!
:(
But... but... I love $5 footlongs
I just meant the commercial. Keep eating your footlongs. Or is it feetlong?
Haha, I'm going with footlongs. As in multiplicity of sandwiches of that name, and not multiplicity of feet within the sandwich ;)
Can we meet?
Overrated
1. American Idol
2. Any kind of reality television series
3. Fads (of any sort)
4. Myspace
Underrated
1. WOC feminists
2. Reading books
3. Porn for women
4. Coconut cake
Overrated:
1. dairy products
2. James Patterson (the man doesn't even write his own books)
3. weddings
4. professional athletes
Underrated:
1. women in science
2. literature as a lifestyle
3. cats as best friends and confidantes
4. thrift stores
Love your lists Courtney!
Overrated:
1. conservative Democrats
2. slut shaming
3. traditional marriage
4. comparing second wave and third wave feminism
Underrated:
1. young feminists
2. protesting
3. polysexuality (attracted to more than one gender or sex but do not wish to identify as bisexual because it implies there are only two binary genders or sexes)
4. poetry
overrated:
1. virginity
2. college parties
3. girls making out for fun
underrated:
1. ECO FEMINISM!
2. Hillary Clinton
3. feminist men
wait, what?
Isn't "for fun" the best reason to make out?
Overrated:
1. Body hair removal.
2. Centrism.
3. Graduating from college/university in four years or less/with honors.
4. Weddings.
Underrated:
1. Bald/shaved heads.
2. Dancing.
3. Feminist Dads.
4. Seeking the help you need.
Overrated-
- Mad Men.
- Girl Talk/Daft Punk.
- Twitter
- The media's obsession with the media.
Underrated-
- Sita Sings the Blues, a movie animated, directed, produced, and written by Nina Paley. Really thought provoking. (Sitasingstheblues.com)
-Feminist Weekly Reader...for catching all the stuff I may have missed.
- Antje Duvekot
-Writing local congresspeople heartfelt pleas, NOT cookie cutter letters.
Overrated:
1. Believeing any religion
2. Breast Implants
3. "Professional" wrestling
4. Anti-intellectualism
5. Using Wikipedia as a credible source
Underated:
1. Atheism
2. Masturbation
3. Female Comedians
4. Female Athletes
5. Scientific Method
Underrated:
1. Doggy style and rough sex
2. Intelligence in women as sexy (by which I don't mean the glasses and sexy librarian look)
3. Staying inside playing videogames when it's sunny outside
4. Google reader
Overrated:
1. Blogging/Bloggers
2. Being a "Bitch" and proud of it
3. Reclaming the word "cunt"
4. The Wire seasons 2+
In a thread full of awesome comments, and as one of the purportedly underrated male feminists, I think this is my favorite. It's not often discussed in the feminist blogosphere, but I think the issue of rough and power-transfer sex in a healthy feminist relationship (particularly an M/F one) is a fascinating one. Your other three underrateds are also awesome. I could not keep up on feminist blogs the way I do but for google reader, I cannot resist an intelligent woman (especially if she has or is pursing a graduate degree), and video games never get old.
"I cannot resist an intelligent woman"
Male feminist, sometimes it isn't about what you cannot resist. I am glad to have a male ally but your comment is less charming than proving why many of the above posters put male feminists into the overrated category.
Pepper-- In a thread about things that are underrated/overrated, it seemed entirely appropriate to agree something is underrated and state why. That being said, I apologize if I stepped into it; the reason I lurk almost exclusively instead of post is precisely because I fear saying something stupid and invading a safe space. Seems that lurking might have been the wiser approach after all..
I certainly do not wish to make you feel unwelcome. The rest of your reply was good. You should post your own under/overrated
Thank you. And good idea, posted in a new thread.
I didn't have a problem with your comment, Lance.
Thanks. I see how it could have come across badly, but am also glad it didn't read that way universally.
Bah, agreed. I fucking hate the 2nd season of the Wire. I fast-forward through any scenes involving Ziggy.
Just WHAT is wrong with the Wire after season 1. The docks? Hamsterdam? The schools? city hall? Brother Mouzone? Cutty? Snoop? Chris? Ziggy? Frank Sobotka?
You would forsake them?
Season 4 was the best.
Lol I wouldn't forsake them, they're just overrated. But then I prefer Godfather Part I to Part II and Batman Begins to Dark Knight.
Overrated:
-baby boomers
-plastic surgery/breast implants/ botox
-christianity
-capri pants
Overrated:
1. Credit scores
2. Small talk
3. Holidays
4. Children
Underrated:
1. Frugality
2. Rain
3. Camping (with dogs and/or horses!)
4. Atheism
Overrated:
TV
ideal bodies
celebrity "authors"
Underrated:
farmer's markets
folk art
equal partnership
Cooool! This is so fun. Okay, I'll try not to inadvertently plagiarize.
Overrated:
-Going "clubbing"
-A college education
-Miniskirts
-Internet culture (oh noes!)
-Motherhood (as status symbol/proof of womanhood/martyr complex)
Underrated:
-Motherhood (as reality)
-small breasts!
-women enjoying geek pursuits
-funny women
-men who love to give women oral!(and accept it as just a part of pleasing her; not a chore)
Overrated:
1. Cosmopolitan's "sex" advice
2. "I now pronounce you husband and wife"
3. traditional porn
4. that "spice girls" brand of "empowerment"
5. flats (my big arches make heels more comfortable. honest.)
Underrated:
1. social determinants of health
2. polyamoury
3. the term "partner" (for everyone)
4. critical thinking
5. public adoptions
Overrated:
-Soviet Kitsch
-Bikinis
-Casual Fridays
Underrated:
-Second-hand or local book retailers
-Jellybeans
-Eating local
Overrated
-breasts/bras
-sororities
-hair on one's head
-"wearing the pants in a relationship" (also: patriarchy/non-egalitarianism in general)
Underrated
-diva cups/feeling awesome about one's period & being female
-the skin as the most sensual part of the body
-skirts! (&other feminine things that I used to be wholeheartedly against!)
-androgyny
Overrated
- scientific illiteracy
- pirates
- the expression "everything happens for a reason"
- "The Secret" and it's ilk
Underrated
- power tools & soldering irons
- reading out loud to other adults (including yourself)
- iced coffee
- feeling content (as opposed to more extreme emotions of happiness or sadness)
feeling content! i completely understand. happiness always has a mania attached to it for me, while contentment is just... perfect
Overrated:
Rush Limbaugh
Jonas Brothers
Twitter
Katy Perry
Underrated:
Jean Grae
Reading
Public Etiquette
Women clergy
My list (excluding things you already know/agree with, such as feminism is underrated):
Overrated:
1) Beer. Seriously, it tastes like somebody just ground up bread and watered it down.
2) Cooking. In NYC, at least, it's somewhat pointless; I could spend the next two years doing nothing but learning to cook and wouldn't be able to match what I can get by walking a few blocks.
3) Twitter. Oh god.
4) Atheism. While I am one myself (or at least a strong agnostic), I am often distressed by how self-satisfied and condescending people who agree with me can be towards people of faith. Many Christian churches, especially Episcopalian ones, are excellent on feminist issues and are progressive.
Underrated:
1) Vodka. Is there anything that doesn't go with vodka?
2) Long walks.
3) Science fiction/fantasy.
4) Video games. There's something epic about increasingly complicated ways to keep being a kid.
lol, Twitter. Reminds me of that Kevin James routine when he's describing him trying to unlock a car door while someone keeps pulling up the handle. "Now? How' bout now? Now? Now? Now?"
Ha! Pretty much. None of my friends are interesting enough to 'follow.' Neither am I, but I have the self-awareness to know it...
I am so with you, except I just really want to ship you some really good beer...
Overrated:
-Bodies
-Formal Education
-The benefits of religion, past and present
-psychological (or any other form of) "normalcy"
-Simplifying sexism to an analysis of what women are shown wearing/not wearing. (esp. in any form of visual media)
Underrated:
-The uniqueness of individual experience
-Mental and Physical self-mastery (in the form of comfort, confidence and self-control, NOT as in conforming to societal demands to eat less/exercise when you don't want to/never get angry etc.)
-The harmful effects of religion, past and present
-A basic understanding of the natural world / natural science.
-The pain and fear of being forced to constantly lie and hide. (unappreciated by most people, who never have to.)
oh my god i am SO with you on the pain associated with lying and hiding all the time. talk about constant panic attacks. and soooo many well-intentioned people who havent lived this experience just DONT GET IT.
anyways, if you are someone who is experiencing this right now, i feel for you and i hope that circumstances change so you can have the freedom to just BE.
overrated:
1) wedding planning. seriously. if one more person asks me what my color is, so help me....
2) owning a car. public transit rocks the casbah!
3) gill sans ultra bold, comic sans, university roman, snell roundhand....
4) glass building skins. good lord.
5) twitter. come on, people. i don't need to know that you just "opened a jar of pickles". let's maintain some critical distance here.
6) arlen specter becoming a democrat.
underrated:
1) awesome women designers! zaha hadid, eva zeisel, april greiman, anyone?? look 'em up and give 'em some love.
2) sleeping late. :)
3) passive solar buildings! woooot!
4) mario kart.
5) skirts in the arizona summer!
6) google earth.
might i also add "the da vinci code" to my "overrated list"? THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A SYMBOLOGIST. THAT'S CALLED AN ART HISTORIAN. dan brown, you cannot fucking write. you fucking suck so bad, it makes me want to never read again.
christ on a cracker.
Shit reads like a Hardy Boys novel.
I TOTALLY HAD THE SAME ISSUE!!! It was a no plot- no problem! novel. BOTHERED THE HELL OUT OF ME.
I love Mario Kart! The super Nintendo version with always be the best.
word.
one of my fondest memories is the day my best friend and i ditched school and played mario kart for 12 hours, stopping only to order pizza and eat popsicles.
***sigh***
overrated:
1.white feminists whining about Michelle Obama referring to herself as "mom in chief"
2. the black women having babies out of wedlock issue
3. expensive wine
underrated:
1. womanisim
2. unitarian universalist churches
3. female emcees
4. how patriarchy affects men
Awww, fuck yeah! Without Unitarian Unverisalism, I wouldn't have ever been aware of social injustice, and as such, wouldn't have ever been a feminist. I totally have my church to thank for having made me a better person.
Equality was so natural within our church - some of the kids in my Sunday Religious Education program had two mothers, some two fathers, and our minister was a lesbian woman, and none of that seemed "special" to us, because we were raised to see it as normal and just a part of life ...
I heart UU-ism, and although I know some feminists frown upon traditional weddings, when I do choose to get married, it'll be in a Unitarian Church with a beautiful song called, "Let It Be a Dance."
Ooooh, the lyrics!
Let it be a dance we do.
May I have this dance with you?
For the good times, and the bad times too,
Let it be a dance.
Let a dancing song be heard.
Play the music. Say the words.
Fill the sky with sailing birds.
Let it be a dance. Let it be a dance. Let it be a dance.
Every body turn and spin.
Let your bodies learn to bend
Like a willow in the wind,
And let it be a dance.
A child is born. We all must die.
A time for joy, a time to cry --
So, take it as it passes by,
And let it be a dance. Let it be a dance. Let it be a dance.
Let it be a dance we do.
May I have this dance with you?
For the good times, and the bad times too,
Let it be a dance.
The morning star comes out at night.
Without the dark, there'd be no light.
Yet, if nothing's wrong, then nothing's right.
So, let it be a dance. Let it be a dance. Let it be a dance.
Let the sun shine. Let it rain.
Share the laughter. Bear the pain.
Round and round we go again,
And let it be a dance.
Let it be a dance we do.
May I have this dance with you?
For the good times, and the bad times too,
Let it be a dance.
That song is super awesome and perfect for a wedding!
i fuckin' love the UU church i go to on occasion. LOVE!
Overrated
university life
the whole kids and husband thing...
fashion - including fancy hair and makeup
nice cars
being thin
Underrated
actual parenting
naps- any bad day can be helped with a nap
anti depressants- my life saver, literally.
alone time
dependable transportation
Ooooh, what fun! Here's mine:
Overrated:
Anti-depressants
Motherhood
Twitter
Exercise
Underrated:
Male feminists
Therapy
Feminist marriage
Makeup
Overrated:
--Riot grrl. I love it, but seriously... This scene constituted a handful of bands that only cranked out music for a few years. It's time to start a new feminist music form, because there is good punk rock beyond Pussy Whipped.
--Gay Episcopal priests.
--Princess Diana.
--Sarah Haskins. I just don't find her attempts at humor remotely funny and am reminded of this every feminist blogs repeatedly link to her videos.
Underrated:
--Female bassists. I'm sick of hearing women like Kims Gordon and Deal and Kira Roessler referred to as tokens or amateurs and their playing rudimentary.
--Nuns!
--Blowjobs, by feminists. I have never quite understood why giving head is supposed to be demeaning.
--Whoopi Goldberg.
Courtney, though, I gotta say: Calling the abortion debate overrated comes off as incredibly privileged and blase. It's the kind of thing that I think actually does seem to deserve second-wave scorn of young women's supposed lack of appreciation for their political victories.
overrated:
the "post-feminist world" that I keep reading about
in mainstream media sources
Overrated:
1. Getting drunk (especially to the point where you need a babysitter)
2. Conspicuous Consumption
3. Being full of yourself/self-righteous
4. Pushing your beliefs (especially religious) onto others
5. Making trivial/petty things a major issue
Underrated:
1. Taking myself seriously (vs: "just have fun" "loosen up, relax" "smile"...no thanks!)
2. Time alone
3. Family time
4. Self reflection/analysis
5. Exotic pets (I have bunnies - did you know they call them exotic? crazy! best companions ever!!)
6. Calling yourself a feminist
7. Loving & respecting yourself, being comfortable in your own skin
8. Making important/serious issues into trivial/petty things
Overrated:
-"waving" and "posting" feminism (I see it as an evolving process!)
-Othering other feminists with opposing opinion
-cultural elitism
-the power of social networking (seriously, it's the new cork board and phone call)
Underrated:
-the commonalities between oppressed people and the systems of oppression
-cross-cultural understanding
-the power of the word "normal" in othering
-how important differences in perspectives are
Overrated:
1. Religion/Spirituality
2. Capitalism
3. 24 hour news cycle
4. The "traditional" nuclear family
Underrated:
1. Secular Humanism
2. Vegetarianism
3. Arts Education
4. Solitude
Overrated:
1. Male feminists
2. Exploiting IMF torn countries to tell all your friends about your hip travel experiences.
3. Take back the Night rallies.
4. Atheism, I am an Atheist. I can't stand Dawkins, Hitchens, or The Rational Response Squad.
Underrated:
1. Andrea Dworkin
2. Feminist Libritarians
3. Internet networking
4. Being a girls-girl
over:
consumerism & conspicuous consumption
instant gratification
reality tv
pro sports
self-sufficiency
under:
seeing the beauty in nature, including ourselves
sustainability, localism, second-hand/exchange economies
parenting education (i.e. How to Not Fuck-Up Your Kid 101)
men in skirts
Overrated:
1 Coca cola
2 "empowerful" tv shows
3 coupledom
4 misogynist male poets
Underrated:
1 feminist Christianity
2 queer theory (yah, let's complicate the binary, real life is not that simple)
3 singleness
4 female poets
I must strongly disagree about Coca-Cola. I've had many beautiful relaxing moments after cracking a Coke. The pop of the can, the crisp taste, the slight burn of the carbonation on the throat. It is a beautiful thing. I would take the stuff intraveinously if I could. I'm thinking Nobel Prize for the genius that invented the formula.
I think I'll have one now.
kbz
Overrated:
1) Kate Chopin's "The Awakening"
2) Global Feminism
3) Higher Education
4) The fashion industry
Underrated:
1) Rural Women
2) Mental Health Issues
3) Oral Histories
4) Fannie Lou Hamer
Overrated:
1) Kate Chopin's "The Awakening" -- THIS
2) Global Feminism
3) Higher Education
4) The fashion industry
Underrated:
1) Rural Women--- THIS
2) Mental Health Issues
3) Oral Histories--- THIS
4) Fannie Lou Hamer
You just made my day. And reaffirmed my belief that The Awakening really was that bad.
This list addresses the spaces I inhabit...not necessarily the world "out there."
Overrated:
1. Ironic Distance
2. Subversivism
3. Queer Theory's colonization of transness
4. Postmodernism that believes there is no subject--there is no narrative
5. Main Street
Underrated:
1. Sincerity
2. Recognizing that if one wants to fight for a continuum, one must also defend the poles (Leslie Feinberg said that once)
3. Transexuals articulation of their identities and those identities being seen as legitimate
4. Postmodernism that believes there is more than one subject--there is more than one narrative
5. Martin Luther King Jr. or Cesar Chavez Boulevard
overrated:
1. people/institutions that say 'gender' when they mean 'sex'
2. heteronormativity
3. katy perry. ugh.
4. 'bio-boy' and 'female-bodied'. as if sexing the body weren't cultural.
5. the dog whisperer. go ahead and set us back fifty years on ethical dog training practices why don't you (and yes this is a deeply feminist issue)
underrated:
1. a trans-inclusive ENDA
2. Ian Dunbar
3. cooking!
4. "situated knowledges." the. Best. Essay. Ever.
5. hott genderqueer clothing
Underrated:
1. Aesexuality!
2. Feminism in video games
3. Gender-neutral bathrooms
4. Tamora Pierce
Overrated:
1. Bro-mance (Is it just me or does this term and the idea behind it just reek of homophobia?)
2. Shaving
3. Gender markers on driver's licenses and various other IDs
4. Sex
Over:
1. Ignoring political correctness. It doesn't make you cool; it makes you an asshole.
2. Striving to be unique, even when you have to give up parts of yourself just to differentiate yourself from everybody else.
3. Being obsessed with Japan, especially Japanese schoolgirl culture.
4. Acting like men are animals or children who just can't control themselves and shouldn't be blamed for their behavior.
Under:
1. Living life at your own pace
2. Statistics
3. Getting to know people while sober
4. Sleep, water, nutrition.
5. Table top RPGs
Over:
1. Buying pepto-pink stuff for breast cancer awareness when manufacturing most of it puts chemicals into the environment that likely have a role in causing cancer. Just associating pink with breast cancer kind of annoys me too. Just because it disproportionately occurs in women, does it really have to be assigned a stereotypically female color? Is everything related to prostate cancer blue?
Overrated:
1. Alcohol
2. Science, Math and History
3. Partying
4. Meat
5. Individualism
6. Intolerance
7. War
Underrated:
1. Water
2. Critical thinking
3. Establishing meaningful connections
4. Environmental responsibility
5. Community
6. Stillness and quiet
7. Daily goodness
Overrated
- Socialism
- Evangelical tendencies (including those preaching Christianity, Atheism, Veganism, etc. -- just let people be)
- Pornography (as opposed to erotica)
- Celebrities
- Cynicism
Underrated
- Monogamy/ Marriage
- Faith
- Erotica (including visual erotica, as opposed to pornography)
- Being debt-free/ living below your means
- Optimism
Also overrated -- striving to look richer than you are. In my experience, generally speaking, the richer someone looks (coach purse, designer clothes, BMW, etc.) the poorer they are ... the rich people I know tend to dress to blend in, not stick out.