This is the preview for a new WE TV show, I Want to Save Your Life.
Not only is this creepy, it's just plain wrong in so many ways. Do we really need ANOTHER television show that tells women they are ruining their lives because of what they put in their mouths?
First of all, this guy is like a stalker, following her around, monitoring her. He's creepy beyond belief. Secondly, this once again, for the millionth time perpetuates the myth that everyone who is overweight is secretly and guilty sneaking ice cream sundaes. We should know by now that weight is much more complex than that. Thirdly, this shit is just sensationalist. I want to save your life? This woman does not look like she is at risk of dying because of a few extra pounds.
Also, why is it always skinny white guys who have discovered the secret of weight loss and are going to teach it to women?
As the reader who sent this in said (h/t to caryb):
Since this show is about women, this is yet another example of how women's bodies are community property, and this time the justification is health and in the promo, the woman isn't even that fat, which makes this even more ridiculous. These things are never about health, they're always about body politics in my opinion.I hope this show goes the way of the dodo.
Note: After posting this, I amended the title and added the quotes around the word "overweight." I did this because I disagree with the suggestion that these women, or women of any weight, are not the norm. Also the show obviously is using it's own screwed up standards to decide who needs these interventions.
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Seriously, THAT is what they consider dangerously overweight? I mean, granted there are statistically increased health risks for even a small amount in terms of BMI, but the percentage of people that would see an effect is so low.
....
There are "statistically increased health risks" for getting out of bed in the morning and going to take a shower!
Nobody ever died from being heavy - but lots of people have ended up dead or in a mental hospital because of fat shaming!
Absolutely wrong! The "overweight" BMI category is often cited as being the category with the greatest statistical longevity.
I wish that motherf**ker would come up to either me or my partner with that sh!t.
He'd get balled up, that's for sure.
Yeah, he does deserve a bit of physical abuse - or, more constructively, to have the cops called on him so he can be arrested for stalking and sent to the county jail for a few months.
As I always say...I wish a mothaf*cka would!
Gosh you'd expect a show like this to be about 300+ lb people not some size 8 woman.
That is so offensive. So a 300+lb. person deserves to be stalked and ridiculed like that?
"That is so offensive. So a 300+lb. person deserves to be stalked and ridiculed like that?"
Oh gosh, of course not. Humiliation is never ok. I just meant that if they're going to go at this from an "omg i'm going to save your life!" angle, they should at least pick someone who actually encountered health problems from their weight. Or better yet, not make this show at all. heh. What a glorious world that would be.
p.s. and I apologize to you and everyone else I offended. :(
forget the idea that some of these women may have a thyroid condition, they may have slow metabolisms, they may even have gained weight from a pregnancy, their medications, or complications with juvenile diabetes.
I hate the idea that it's not ok for an overweight woman to enjoy a hotdog, some ice cream, a pastry at breakfast, or an occasional cupcake (notice the package of cupcakes wasn't even opened and he was judging her for it!)
A thin woman can eat all those things and it's fine, but if you weigh to much (by who's standards are we judging who is and isn't fat by the way?) you CAN not and SHOULD not be caught eating anything like that, lest you should be judged. Obviously, that cupcake you're eating, that's the reason why you're fat. Right? That's the logic here?
Does he really believe that these women don't realize their weight? When we are badgered daily with messages about how anything dress size above 2 is too big, he really believes we don't know? He really believes that the solution to the "obesity epidemic" is stalking? What an idiot...
*rantrantrant*
Yeah, your comment reminds me of something a friend remarked to me, which is that society erroneously equates thinness with health. We automatically assume that thin (and beautiful and attractive) people are also healthy. We would hardly look at a thin woman and think, "She could have health problems! She's not exercising enough!" The guy hosting this show would never be stalking outwardly thin or beautiful women, though they could and likely do have as many "health problems" as overweight women.
Yes, this is infuriating. My younger sister is a size 2, and I am a size 14. She eats McDonalds every other day, and the only exercise she gets is walking between classes. I, on the other hand, am a vegetarian, I haven't set foot in a McDonalds in 8 years, and I go to the gym 3 times a week. Guess who gets the health "tips" all the time?
While I agree with a lot of what you said, I think you may be able to do some self-examination here as well. You say thin and attractive get lumped together with how people see health issues, which is quite accurate, but you then say this guy wouldn't make the show about attractive women. This leads me to believe that you must be thinking of thin as a prerequisite to attractive, because quite frankly, the woman in this video is beautiful. How "over weight" she appears changes from scene to scene, and I can't quite tell if she is really at risk health-wise (it seems unlikely). However, the one consistent thing about her appearance in every shot is that she is pretty.
Male 25 from Arkansas
I'm so glad you said this! I was stomping my way over to the comments section to say the exact same thing, and you beat me to it, and early on in the thread too!
I'm a pretty thin woman, and I have a major problem with eating junkfood. My best friend has struggled with weight all her life, and is MUCH "healthier" than I am. And, goddess bless her, she's always looking out for me in that regard. And yet, no one ever suggests that I'm unhealthy. In fact, whenever someone bugs me about my unhealthy eating habits, it's always in a joking manner, to make light of the situation. And yet, when an "overweight" woman eats poorly, television shows are made.
Guess what folks? We see through your bullshit!
What the ... f. It's always white guys not only teaching women the secrets of *weight loss*, but apparently feeling the need to "teach" (more like patronize) women and protect women from EVERYTHING. Like their own uteruses (though, again, bodies in general).
If this guy really wanted to "save lives," how about he follows around some reckless male drivers who cause far more car accidents than women, or men with health problems who refuse to get check-ups or treatment due to some macho dysfunctional masculinity, or stalk guys who own and brag about their guns, overwhelmingly used BY MEN to harm other men and women.
If any jerk decides to stalk me and puts me on national TV to tell me that I am overweight (which I'm not, but oh you know, they will think I am, due to the fact I'm not skeletal bony), I will punch this jerk's mouth and kick his teeth in so hard. The camera crew will HAVE to hold me back from being violent.
That'd actually be really good TV. They wouldn't air you punching him though. haha.
not unless they air it on VH-1, MTV, or Oxygen, where they love trashy reality shows with angry people screaming profanities at other people ;-)
Actually yeah, this jerk getting stomped by a healthy sized woman, cursed out for his amazing lack of boundaries and, perhaps, having those cupcakes stuffed in his mouth while he's being punched repeatedly in the stomach would make very good TV!
And this goon would deserve every bit of it!
And how exactly do you define a "healthy sized woman"?
I hope that happens. Then I'll watch it.
I just can't believe the audacity of that subject choice.
I am overweight (far more overweight than that woman is), and there are medical problems associated with it (none that I have so far, but it's quite likely I will in another 10 years when I've stayed overweight for a while). Most people that are overweight are not overweight because of some medical condition, although there certainly are many, MANY people who fall into that category.
Most people are overweight because they enjoy eating unhealthy food (or unhealthy amounts of it), or dislike exercising enough, or do not have enough energy to exercise after work (etc). Sometimes a combination of the three. But, so what? There may be some exceptions, but I think most of us overweight people realize what sort of (non-medical) behavior leads us to be overweight. A diet detective, not so necessary, and more than a little creepy.
And despite the increased health risks of being overweight, it's the height of hyperbole to name the it "I want to save your life". Especially if many of the subjects just have a few extra pounds like in the video.
The things you've written here about why people are overweight are not true for the most part. You might want to give yourself a break and read a little more about the subject. You're really OK.
If you're worried about impending health problems I'm sure there are healthy things you can do, but they probably won't have much to do with your weight either.
That's not exactly true. If you are overweight you are more likely to have a heart attack (even with risk separated from other cardiac risk factors/symptoms like hypertension and high cholesterol, which are often related directly or indirectly to obesity). Related issues such as deep vein thrombosis and aneurysms are also more common.
In fact, overweight individuals face a higher incidence of certain types of cancer, often have more trouble with osteoarthritis, can have problems with sleep apnea, and are at risk for developing diabetes.
This doesn't mean that everyone who is overweight has any of these problems. And for people that are only a bit overweight, the effect size is much smaller in terms of how many people are more at risk. But being overweight isn't a good thing, overall, healthwise.
(On the other hand, there are a smattering of benefits, especially for the mildly overweight. They are rarer, so harder to think of off the top of my head, but I know being mildly overweight reduces the risk of Alzheimers, and I believe some other neurological problems as well)
You're seeming less and less like a real person having a genuine conversation about your personal experience and more and more like something... else.
At any rate, if you're talking about your own experience please realize it is your own experience and not necessarily universal. Please realize that you are using blanket terms without defining them. Please realize that you are bandying about dubious test results. Please realize that you're not going to make yourself happy if this is the focus of your relationship with your body.
I don't know what something else would mean, but I would like to address the rest of your comment.
At any rate, if you're talking about your own experience please realize it is your own experience and not necessarily universal.
I am so aware. I personally have no health problems related to my being overweight.
Please realize that you are bandying about dubious test results.
I am doing no such thing. If you distrust most of the studies on obesity, that is up to you. I wouldn't call them dubious however, as most are in fairly well designed analyses.
Please realize that you're not going to make yourself happy if this is the focus of your relationship with your body.
I am perfectly happy, although I do wish I was thinner for a variety of reasons (health outcomes, finding good seats in a variety of places, looking a bit better). I just really don't want to give up what it would take to get there.
It's not really cool to tell people that they can't possibly be happy because you don't agree with them. It's condescending and just as presumptuous as you just accused dream of being.
Well, the point is, pretty much being alive and doing basically anything puts you "at risk" (whatever that means) for a million different types of health problems. Smoking is, I'm pretty sure, more of a health risk than obesity, and people do it all the time - and we don't have weirdos making TV shows about stalking smokers. Drinking is a big health risk. So is being outdoors. So is being indoors. So is being in a crowd of people with illnesses. So is being alone. Catch my drift. People fail to put the "obesity health risk" into perspective.
I agree that people fail to put it into perspective. And I would agree that smoking is likely less healthy than being overweight (of course depending on the amount overweight and the amount of smoking).
I think being overweight (for those of us that have a realistic, if painful, choice in the matter) is a valid lifestyle choice, much like smoking. I just wouldn't recommend it as a healthy choice.
I guess the point is, I feel like, when we try to deal with the constant social stigma attached to being overweight, we sometimes go too far the other direction and ignore the evidence that there are bad outcomes associated with it. It doesn't make the social stigma right, or even close to in proportion, but it seems like sometimes people conflate "overweight people shouldn't be judged" which I agree with, with "there are no legitimate problems with being overweight" which, from a health standpoint, I disagree with.
it seems like sometimes people conflate "overweight people shouldn't be judged" which I agree with, with "there are no legitimate problems with being overweight" which, from a health standpoint, I disagree with.
Do some fat people have health problems related to their weight? Sure. But weight is usually a symptom of a larger health issue, and not the cause.
I don't want to go on a case by case basis, but, in the simplest example, if someone is significantly overweight and has high blood pressure, one of the best things they can do as an intervention to lower their blood pressure is to lose weight.
Sure, but you're still just treating a symptom of a symptom.
This is certainly true if someone has a genetic-metabolism influence that makes it hard for them to keep weight. It's still a good choice for them to make, in terms of maintaining a healthy life. (Again, I am not saying it is the choice everyone should make, health is not everyone's first concern, nor should it be necessarily. It isn't mine!)
On the other hand, there are people who have standard metabolism that are very overweight. I wouldn't say they have an underlying problem (although when it's relatively subtle differences, that's of course a somewhat artificial line to draw. I guess because fewer people with similar genetic/metabolic make ups have problems they would be considered to be aproblematic, but that's just definitional). But they could lose weight if they want to, they just choose not to. Lowering weight is not everyone's first goal, although it may become it when they find out that it might be causing their high blood pressure.
Either way, if the treatment of a symptom results in better outcomes, that's fine by me. And there aren't always larger health issues. Obesity can be the cause, with related symptoms. If you don't like blood pressure as an example, obstructive sleep apnea can be caused nearly entirely by obesity.
If you don't like blood pressure as an example, obstructive sleep apnea can be caused nearly entirely by obesity.
This wouldn't happen to be based on the same study that was just retracted because it was found that the lead researcher engaged in "medical misconduct" by deliberately falsifying data to support his claims of a correlation between obesity and sleep apnea, would it?
In any case, it's a moot point to the discussion at-hand, which is ultimately about how no one, even unhealthy fat people, deserve to be shamed and ridiculed for their weight.
No, as there are many other studies that corroborate the finding.
On your second point, I can agree with that completely. This show disgusts me even as an idea, and it looks even worse in practice.
Actually, I want to clarify this in case it isn't coming across clearly.
Everyone's case is different. Some people who are overweight shouldn't try losing weight to help with what are generally related problems, because there are different causes and factors affecting an individuals health issues.
What I am saying in general is that a very large portion of the overweight and obese population would benefit in numerous ways from losing weight. Not everyone. But, most people are likely to see better health outcomes if they try to stay in the "normal to just mildly overweight" zone of weight.
dream, please go to junkfoodscience to educat yourself about the realities of weight and health. much of the points you are making have been disproven by the science, though reporters still like to misrepresent the findings. your assertation that all, or nearly all, fat people could:
a) lose the weight if they wanted to
b) would be more healthy if they did so and
c) are making the choice to be fat and unhealthy
is insulting in the highest degree. and really, it's more of the same rhetoric people of size get fed every day. please, stop, research, examine your assertations because you are contributing to the problem.
No one is listening to what dream is saying. The show is bad. Stalking someone is a horrible invasion of that persons privacy. Assuming that you know their health problems and how to fix them based on what you have seen them eat a few times and a rummage through their cupboard is ridiculously arrogant, and supports a false idea of the relationship between health, eating, and weight.
BUT,
eating too much food is unhealthy. I can't say what any one particular person's causes of being over-weight are, (which is why the show is ridiculous) but obviously, Americans' didn't suddenly develop a massive number of health problems that cause weight gain. So, out of all the people in America who are overweight, many (probably even most) of them could change their weight some. They should NOT get super-skinny, like the fake magazine photos! Some people have weight issues caused primarily by health problems that are not related to their choices, and most people have a variety of things affecting their weight to varying degrees. Also, even though it's not fair, eating too much food causes more health problems for someone with a low metabolism than for someone with a high metabolism.
So, don't accost people you don't know and tell them you want to save their life, but don't put out a blanket statement that all people are perfectly healthy "just the way they are."
If never exercising is part of who you are, but living to a "ripe old age" is important, you should change who you are! Even if you are skinny!! Your heart needs exercise.
If part of who you are is consuming too few essential vitamins, minerals, and proteins, and/or consuming too much cholesterol, saturated fat, etc... and you would prefer to be a healthy human, change part of yourself. Especially if you are skinny, on the cholesterol part. It can still clog your arteries, and a million people aren't going to warn you daily.
As for cigarettes. That is 100% changeable. If you want to live past your fifties, STOP NOW, or your chances aren't good.
Um, I'm pretty sure there are far MORE people failing to put it into perspective than people claiming "there are no health risks associated with obesity," as evidenced by the TELEVISION SHOW that this entire post is about. It's pounded into Americanas' heads through advertising and other media that FAT IS UNHEALTHY, even that "ugliness" is unhealthy. Again, conflating thinness/beauty and health, which you are also doing in your posts, is dangerous and stupid. Thin people eating McDonalds five times a week is NOT healthy, but we would not KNOW it because we do not profile thin people based on their appearance in the way we profile heavier people based on their appearance.
I agree that there are more people who fail to put it into perspective from POV expressed in this show. I've spent my life being told the same thing. I think it's quite destructive, and it's part of why I find this show disgusting.
However, I am more addressing people that otherwise think somewhat similarly to how I do. Most of the people reading this probably already realize how ridiculous that show is. It's why we find it offensive.
I'm still concerned that those of us who realize that that view is wildly out of perspective don't ignore the evidence that obesity is related to a variety of health problems (from causing some to exacerbating others). It is something to consider quite carefully if you want to live a healthy life (which again, isn't my overriding goal, at least). It's just one of many factors to consider, but it is an important one.
You're missing the point. Weight, a measure of how much mass your body has, has nothing to do with "health." Having too much fatty tissue, cholesterol, or weak muscles is bad. These are all symptoms of a lot of overeating of the wrong foods (mostly processed junk food) and not getting enough exercise.
Fact is, some people can exercise regularly, eat very healthy, balanced meals and have good blood pressure, cholesterol levels, circulation, muscle tone, etc., and still have "fat" on their bodies. Because that's determined by lots of different things, like hormone levels, genetics, etc., and not just "what you eat."
The "health problems" associated with obesity aren't really due to the fat/weight, but rather to the fact that the fat/weight is sometimes an indicator of an unhealthy lifestyle.
On the other hand, it's perfectly possible to not eat good food, not exercise and not take care of yourself and be "thin" and still be unhealthy.
You're missing the point. Weight, a measure of how much mass your body has, has nothing to do with "health." Having too much fatty tissue, cholesterol, or weak muscles is bad. These are all symptoms of a lot of overeating of the wrong foods (mostly processed junk food) and not getting enough exercise.
Fact is, some people can exercise regularly, eat very healthy, balanced meals and have good blood pressure, cholesterol levels, circulation, muscle tone, etc., and still have "fat" on their bodies. Because that's determined by lots of different things, like hormone levels, genetics, etc., and not just "what you eat."
The "health problems" associated with obesity aren't really due to the fat/weight, but rather to the fact that the fat/weight is sometimes an indicator of an unhealthy lifestyle.
On the other hand, it's perfectly possible to not eat good food, not exercise and not take care of yourself and be "thin" and still be unhealthy.
Smoking is, I'm pretty sure, more of a health risk than obesity, and people do it all the time - and we don't have weirdos making TV shows about stalking smokers.
This is what finally made me realise the way we treat overweight/"overweight" people is so much BS. Unlike BMI, smoking has been very clearly shown to post a massive health risk - but do we treat smokers to *nearly* as much shame and ridicule as we do women who weigh more than the ideal? No. When it comes to smoking, we go "well, people can make decisions about their bodies and their health, the main thing of importance is that they don't endanger those around them." But somehow, when it comes to what people eat instead of what they inhale we suddenly have to save them from themselves!
As to why people are overweight, perhaps I oversimplified things. We all know people gain and lose weight very differently. For example, my wife is pretty thin, and she eats worse than I do and exercises far less.
There are genetic components. Possibly even viral components. And then, especially for older individuals (but also young people, such as those with PCOS, as a common example) there are medical reasons.
I'm not saying that those of us without a medical reason are lazier or just aren't trying compared to the thinner people. It really is easy for some people to be skinny and it is far harder for some people to lose weight (or to keep it off) than it is for others. For most people without a medical problem, it is potentially possible to reach a healthier weight.
I personally don't find it worth the effort. I'm okay with the trade-offs, as it is very hard for me. There are quite a few potential health trade offs, but I would have to exercise far more and eat far less (and less enjoyably) than I want to to lose weight. But I could, and if I was giving someone strictly health advice, I would want to make it clear that getting to and staying at a "normal" or only slightly overweight level is best.
In the early 20th century, being thin became a White American cultural norm.
Medical science at that time did not hold that view.
If you do a google search, you can find accounts of mid 20th century WEIGHT GAIN products - complete with testimonials from doctors about how being UNDERWEIGHT was unhealthy!
There was even a product - advertised to parents - who's tagline was "IT WILL MAKE YOUR KIDS FAT LIKE PIGS" which was considered to be a good thing!
It's only been in the last 30 years or so that the medical community had decided that all fat people are sick.
Coincidentally enough, this was when the diet industry emerged.
Selling unnecessary medical treatments to healthy fat people (in particular, healthy fat WOMEN) is a multibillion dollar industry.
Many of these products flat out don't work - some are actively dangerous and some could even kill you dead.
Like Phen-Fen which actually causes heart failure.
Or bariatric surgery, which can also kill you dead - especially in the assembly line fashion which many big fat clinics practice it.
So no, being fat in and of itself is not unhealthy.
Yeah, I said it.
I know it's heresy to say that in modern America.
It's also true.
Incidentally, our medical knowledge (as well as knowledge in other fields) has blossomed in the last 50 years as well.
Of course, most good physicians wouldn't recommend surgery in any but the most extreme cases. When the risks of the surgery outweighs the risks of the persons weight (which would generally mean many comorbid symptoms, not just alot of extra weight). You do seem to be overemphasizing the risks, though. They are quite real - any surgery can kill you dead, and bariatric surgery is not the safest, but it at least seems like you are saying death is a common adverse effect, which it is not.
I can also agree with the statement that "Being fat is not unhealthy."
It isn't. There are overweight people who have no health problems. Statistically they are the exception, however, and there is a causal relationship (moderated by individual differences) between obesity and a variety of health problems.
Please do not ignore the evidence. It is not just from dietitians and the like. Physicians in numerous fields have found increased risks related to obesity. Oncologists, cardiologists, neurologists.
It's great to make an informed decision about your weight. But please, please make it informed.
Dream,
Surgeons get paid only when they cut human tissue.
This is especially true for plastic surgeons.
Unnecessary surgeries are carried out every day in this country - mostly on women who've been persuaded that they are "ugly" or "deformed" or "diseased" because their bodies do not meet contemporary White American beauty standards.
You know, you are probably right about that. I would be amazed if there were not some plastic surgeons who would advice people to get surgery, because some of them specialize in cosmetic surgery (which is always unnecessary). Reconstructive surgery is unnecessary too, but probably less motivated by money.
I was thinking about surgery being brought up in the context of health discussion with your PCP, who shouldn't be a surgeon, generally. Although they overlap, I said physician to differentiate from a surgeon, which is not really an accurate way to state that, sorry for the confusion. They would generally be the one to refer you to one. I wouldn't recommend anyone go see a surgeon without discussing it with a primary care provider first, unless the potential patient was very sure of what they wanted.
But again, conflating all of cosmetic surgery with surgeries that aid weight loss (NOT LIPOSUCTION) is not really a sensible comparison. And again, they generally are only recommended for people who are already having substantial symptoms from their weight. And, one more time, they are not a super-risky high-incidence of death form of surgery. In many people the health benefits outweigh the risks.
It's something to be considered for health reasons, not normally embraced. But talking about them as some sort of monstrous thing is silly. They can be a life saving procedure.
@dream: "Of course, most good physicians wouldn't recommend surgery in any but the most extreme cases. When the risks of the surgery outweighs the risks of the persons weight "
wrong again. most docs that practice bariatric surgury want to recomend it to as many patients as tehy can. it's big money. and the increased morbidity for those what have had the surgury is MUCH higher than if they hadn't had it at all. agin, please, educate yourself with reliable unbiased sources.
Do you have any evidence at all to back up your assertion that physicians tend to irresponsibly recommend surgery due to monetary motivation, because you're basically stating that you know that the majority of physicians put their financial concerns over the best patient care. Show us the proof of that, please--especially when you're accusing another person of bias.
in 2005 several insurance companies decided to stop covering bariatric surgury because of the costs and riskes involved (i'll get to those risks in a moment). the american obesity association, which is the loby group for weightloss interest groups (ie diet companies and the makers of the hardwear for lap band and gastric bypass surguries), in association with the American Society for Bariatric Surgery launched a counter project called OPERATE. nice, huh? the aim of this was to reverse this on a national level. in feb 2006 they succedded, and got medicare on board to boot. now, bariatric surgury is BIG money, (in 2006-2007 it was a $7.8 billion dollar industry and enjoying exponential growth, increasing some 1100% since 1995.)and your practice (private or public/hospital) gets extra funds if they have a low mortality rate. and here's the thing... the studies done on those mortality rates are so full of holes it's a wonder they get used at all. here are some statistics:
*4.9% of bariatric patients die within the first year post-op as opposed to .19% who have a historectomy.
*even the most obese man can expect a mortality rate of only 1.3% with coronary bypass surgury.
*young women are the number one market for this surgury
*the jornal of american medicine reported that the actual increas in obesity in america since 1999-2004 was only 0.1% and deathe from obesity only rose 0.4%.
* bariatric surgury deaths on the other hand, in the same period, rose 607%.
there's more, but i think overall you can see where this is going. and i highly, again, recomend a visti to junkfoodscience to read up on the medical research being done. she's even provided a handy little grouping of bariatric surgury and obesity "paradox" articles for your handy purusal.
Your dates are a bit off, Gregory. Dieting and diet products emerged far earlier than 30 years ago. In fact, they first began to emerge about the turn of the twentieth century. And while weight gain products did persist even through the 1970s, they were mostly intended for weight gain in all the "right" places, meaning hips and thighs. None of the women depicted in the after pictures in weight gain product ads were remotely overweight and the products never promoted fatness as an ideal or aspiration. I actually posted many of these ads to my blog a couple weeks ago, which may be where you saw the child-pig ad. And while the obesity epidemic fearmongering didn't pick up steam until about 1980 or so, it was heralded a health issue as far back as the early 1900s.
dream, correlation does not equal causation. I would highly recommend you do some reading over at Junkfood Science.
Some reading is definitely worthwhile: http://epirev.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/29/1/1 is a nice overview. The Centre for Disease Control has some very basic introductory information about obesity in America: http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/index.htm - it goes without saying you should not apply this to more general cases - even Canadians are not so obese as Americans (and we are plenty fat).
Obesity rates have something like doubled in the United States in the last 25 years. That increase is not medical issues, it is the 200 Calorie/day increase in food intake combined with progressively less physical activity being mandatory. I am a pretty typical fat person. I do not expend enough energy to consume all the Calories I consume when I am at an ideal weight, and establish an equilibrium when enough excess fat makes everything I do require the expenditure of more Calories (in my case at ~25% body fat, which while probably close to ideal for a woman, is pretty high for a man such as me).
Seriously, is it necessary for the health police to show up every time we try to have a feminist discussion about fat-shaming? Please see Kate Harding's 101 post about fat acceptance.
http://kateharding.net/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/
You might disagree with her, but at least don't strike a tone that implies that obese people need to be educated about the dangers of obesity. Fat-shaming doesn't save the lives of women; it just makes them feel bad about themselves. And, quite frankly, it endangers women's lives because it encourages unhealthy eating behaviors in the name of getting thin. See the hydroxycut phenomenon. See the National Eating Disorders Association.
Since facts are being widely disputed, encouraging people to check their facts seems, and enabling that, seems like a sensible place to begin. Eileen recommended people do some reading, so I offered some reading (and did some reading). If we are going to discuss the health effects and causes of obesity, (which had already started), we might as well be informed.
You can read "obese people need to be educated about the dangers of obesity" into what I have said if you want, but all I have said is "people discussing obesity ought to be educated about obesity." I will stand by that one, too.
Let me say, as someone who is fat, that I am pretty aware that we fat people are generally aware of the risks we face (though the obesity => high blood pressure => berry aneurysm thing did catch me off guard, I mean in general).
I would be surprised if there's anyone in the Western hemisphere who hasn't heard that there's an "obesity epidemic" at this point. You bore the brunt of my frustration with the fact that every time a post about fat-shaming gets put up on Feministing, somebody has to come in and say, "But being overweight is unhealthy!" As if we somehow missed getting that message from every health segment on the Today show ever. Whether there is an obesity epidemic or not doesn't change the fact that this television show is disgusting and sexist. That's the point of this post. Conversations about weight loss take us away from discussing the issue at hand, which is the way television shows like this one exploit women and contribute to sexist body standards.
If this were about health, this show wouldn't just target women. It's a rip off the BBC show "You Are What You Eat"--which features a mean woman nutritionist who goes in and shames both men and women to try to get them to eat differently. Unfortunately, it's very popular in the UK. But as obnoxious and fat-hating as I find it, at least it's not specifically targeting women.
Well, fair enough. When you comment in response to something I've said, it can well come off to me as being very pointedly aimed (which it did), even if you don't intend it (or perceive it) that way. We're gonna find different issues most interesting, there's no reason we can't each discuss what we think is most relevant.
And having never watch'd the Today show, I have missed all the health segments, and I'm still aware of the health effects of obesity from more than just my doctor's bug-eyes when my blood pressure's 170/90. One can't miss it, though there is probably a pound of misinformation for every pinch of information.
Brian - save the science lecture.
It's wrong - and sexist - to make women feel ashamed of their bodies.
Period.
Full Stop.
End of sentence.
And no amount of footnotes makes fat shaming right.
And let's not even mention the fact that the diet industry buys "scientific opinions" right and left, so you'd really have to go back to all of your footnotes and see who paid for those studies, and which diet company board of directors those "objective scientists" are on.
Remember, it wasn't that long ago when "respected scientists" said that Black people were genetically inferior.
So, considering "objective American science's" track record, can you really trust them on hot button cultural issues like this?
Especially if there is money to be made from promoting the use of the diet industry's useless and dangerous products?
Bottom line - the issue here is sexism.
Period.
Greg
If you are not interested in facts, feel free to ignore science. Yes, one has to be careful about where they get their science from on issues of commercial interest (and issues of other nonscientific interest ... which is basically everything ... but perhaps this is not the time to drone on about the joys of doing science).
Yes, if we shame women for being fat differently from how we shame men for being fat (and here I suspect that we do), then our treatment of people (as society as a whole) is sexist, sure. But I am unsure that laying out your opinion, and demanding that it be the only valid one is likely to convince me of anything. I am fat. I have some knowledge of how fat people get treated and what they get told about being fat. I also have some knowledge of the health effects. If you do not want to discuss the causes of obesity, or the health effects of obesity - then don't. Topics can have more than one issue. There is some sexism in society's treatment of overweight people, I am pretty sure of this (I would be more comfortable if I could find and like a good study for an assertion of fact like that, but I suppose I will lay off for the moment.) To suggest that that is the only issue with this show, and the media's treatment of obesity, and society's treatment of obesity, this I do not buy.
Uh-huh. Yeah. Derailing, anyone?
And you still haven't attempted to address WHY our society equates thinness with health. Really? Thin, normal-weight people have "fewer" health problems, simply because of their weight? Once again, what does it say that the host of this show is NOT stalking smokers or male alcoholics or reckless drivers?
Again, one does not simply magically "lose weight" first thing to "become healthier." Steps necessary to "lose weight" include (1) changing one's diet; (2) changing one's exercise program; (3) generally changing one's lifestyle. But our culture does not frame the problem as one of diet and exercise; it frames it as a problem of WEIGHT. It is NOT.
Overweight men are treated extraordinarily differently than overweight women. Studies - since you like them so much - have shown this, as well.
No, I haven't attempted to address why society equates thinness with healthiness. Extreme thinness is fairly obviously unhealthy, as is extreme obesity. I don't know healthiness as a function of weight, and I won't attempt to pretend I do.
I have explicitly framed my fatness as a function of diet and exercise (okay, Caloric intake and activity - same deal). I'm not sure why I need to be lectured on this.
If you know of any good studies on the differences between the treatment of fat men and fat women I would be interested to read them. I suspect a number of readers here would find them informative or interesting (or both) as well, in fact. Merely asserting that they exist doesn't really educate me, though.
http://www.derailingfordummies.com/
IT IS NOT OUR JOB TO EDUCATE YOU.
FIGURE IT OUT.
It'd be nice if people read what I've written before feeling the need to attack me over it.
Hi Brian
I great article is "Feminism and the Invisible Fat Man" By Kirsten Bell & Darlene McNaughton in the
Body & Society, Vol. 13, No. 1, 107-131 (2007) or on Sage Journals
http://bod.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/13/1/107
William
Hi Allegra
Most studies that do not find fat male issues do not include enough Fat Males in there sample. Fat Men and Women are treated differently but I would not marginalize the experiences of Fat Men to the point where the difference is extraordinary. I have been a Fat Male all my life, I know better.
William
Brian,
You totally missed the point.
Fat shaming is wrong
Period.
He really doesn't actually comment on the ethics of fat-shaming at all.
I think what's happening is that since we seem to expect people to be actively condemning fat shaming, statements that are in fact neutral come off as supportive of it instead.
Why do you think fat shaming would be ok if it was dealt out equally instead of more to women? It is sexist because it is more directed to women but fat shaming directed towards anyone is not ok.
So far as I'm aware, I don't think that. I certainly haven't said that. I noted that fat shaming is sexist as long as it is done differently to men and women mostly because I'm hopelessly pedantic.
How is this at all relevant to the post and discussion at hand? You seem to be passively supporting this show by trotting out tired, dubious "facts" that purport fat to be unhealthy. Even if this woman did have health problems related to her weight, she doesn't deserve to be ridiculed and shamed for it. If shaming ever worked to encourage weight loss, we'd be a nation of thin people.
It's now a ways separated from dream's post, and Eileen's response to that, which I responded to. If you read those, it should be clear why my response there was topical (even if there was some drift away from the original post, on each of our parts).
That I've had to defend myself against those who've put words in my mouth that I've never uttered is off topic, yes. I, well, I find it objectionable when I'm accused of saying things I haven't said, and smeared for holding positions or opinions I don't hold. I suppose that's a failing of grace on my part.
Obesity rates have something like doubled in the United States in the last 25 years
*groan* Not this shit again.
The RATE has gone up because in 1998 they changed the cut off on the BMI scale literally overnight. They moved the cut off down almost 3 points (29 down to 26). I went to bed overweight and the next morning I woke up obese.
This means, for anyone not following along here, that from 1997-1999 the percentage of the population that was classified as obese JUMPED SIGNIFICANTLY without anyone actually gaining weight.
ANY STATISTIC THAT GIVES AN OBESITY RATE OR PERCENTAGE OLDER THAN 12 YEARS NEEDS A FUCKING DISCLAIMER.
The RATE has gone up because in 1998 they changed the cut off on the BMI scale literally overnight. They moved the cut off down almost 3 points (29 down to 26).
THANK YOU! I basically said this same thing before I read your comment, but you put it much better than I did!
Obesity rates have something like doubled in the United States in the last 25 years. That increase is not medical issues, it is the 200 Calorie/day increase in food intake combined with progressively less physical activity being mandatory.
The average height of Americans has also increased significantly in the last 25 years, but I don't suppose that could have anything to do with it. Nor could the redefinition of who is considered "obese".
Most people are overweight because they enjoy eating unhealthy food (or unhealthy amounts of it), or dislike exercising enough, or do not have enough energy to exercise after work (etc). Sometimes a combination of the three.
Actually, most people are "overweight" because of genetics.
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around that not being a joke. A bad joke. It's just so creepy on so many levels. I assume that the women subjected to this scrutiny have to consent to being used on the show (presumably after being targeted). Lovely combination of loathing and self-loathing swirling around in this concept.
I agree - the whole time the clip was playing, I kept thinking that it must be a joke, it seemed so ridiculous. I hope and pray that any women (or men) who are approached for this show say "Hell no!" and send this creeper running back to the rock that he crawled out from under. Your comment also made me think about other "beauty"-centered intervention/makeover shows and why we allow ourselves to be degraded in such a public way... also, wtf? to the husband/bf who appears complicit to his wife/gf's ambush!
Wow. The premise that the guy is stalking/creeping women in the first place is made even more creepy by his voice. And how he talked as if the women's weight was the end of the world...ick. Also, did anyone else notice how when the woman walked into the house to the creeper guy, her husband was there too? Talk about the person that "loves" you ganging up on you.
And about the package of cupcakes in the kitchen...women may have other family members living there too. In my house, we have plenty of desserts/snack foods at any point in time, but my mom only eats them in moderation, it's me and my brother (mostly my brother ha) who eats it (Dad can't because he's diabetic). Just because it's in the cupboard doesn't necessarily point out who's eating it...
Exactly! What does it say (along with the other awful messages) that we assume all of the food in the house is for her? Is it because she must have purchased it, being a woman? Thanks WE.
Also, what the qua is this psuedo psychological trope? "I'm an emotional eater. The stress from having my privacy invaded and being stalked, all apparently with the support of the man that I live with, makes me want to eat. Thank -God- you're here to 'save my life.'" Oh wait....
Hello All,
anitasaber said: "...Also, did anyone else notice how when the woman walked into the house to the creeper guy, her husband was there too? Talk about the person that "loves" you ganging up on you."
Not only that, but did anyone take notice how every time she was filmed she was eating/carrying an enormous amount of food (presumably ALL for her) as if her whole life revolved around food and eating?
This is a dangerous stereotype that also needs to be dismissed. The "main" cause for weight gain is a slow metabolism, caused not by eating too much, calories in must be less than calories burned/used, but by "starvation eating" (eating too few calories or none at all causing a near complete shut down of metabolism).
This was completely creepy.
Pretty sure I saw him pulling his pud while watching her from the car.
ugh... he looks like a total creeper.
And what's with that whole "intervention" type thing at the end?
I wonder if he's going to stalk middle-age women like me, whose metabolism has changed and weight gain is almost inevitable, or just the twenty-somethings that are the desire of the patriarchy. After, you young women have to look perfect so you can snag a man! *eyeroll*
"...you young women have to look perfect so you can snag a man!"
That's certainly the script, though it almost never fits. In this case the woman in question had already accomplished the snagging, so I guess she was deemed deserving of the stalking and humiliation for the ultimate sin of having "let herself go," which is code for getting older in these guys misogynist lexicon.
Wow. I hope she has some pepper spray in that pizza box. After all she is being stalked.
This double standard is so stupid. I'm skinny, and my diet consists of hot dogs, cheez-its, sugary cereals, soda, grilled cheese, fries, cheeseburgers, pasta with meat sauce, and chicken fingers. I eat a lot of fried food. Very unhealthy foods that are said to make anyone who eats them 'overweight.' And for some reason, it's the fat that's seen as unhealthy. Like a person only suffers from their diet if they gain weight. Skinny people can get sick from over-eating bad food, too, their bodies just don't want to be big so they don't get much bigger >.
If I can engage in this 'eating to make you fat' behavior and not get fat, doesn't that mean that other people can engage in 'not eating to make you fat' behavior and still get fat? It's up to our bodies what we way. I seriously don't think we give our bodies enough credit for maintaining a weight they think we need to be at.
But of course each episode will end with the woman crying over either losing weight or him giving up cause she couldn't stick to it.
I completely agree. I'm socially fat and yet I am completely and ridiculously healthy as confirmed by a recent barrage of blood work for a thyroid disorder (which is genetic and completely unrelated to weight). I eat a healthy, vegetarian diet and am physically active. My husband, on the other hand, is a vegetarian who hates vegetables (he does eat French fries and "bad" veggies like potatoes and corn) and is the laziest person I know. Yet he's tall and thin, so people just assume that he's healthy while I, the one who actually knows his diet and lifestyle, am always encouraging him to move and to at least take a multivitamin.
Unhealthy foods are bad for everyone, fat or thin. Period. By basing standards of health in weight, we not only risk stereotyping fat people who are healthy, but we also give thin people who are sedentary and/or eat unhealthy foods the false notion that because they're thin, they're healthy.
Oops. I should say my thyroid disorder is unrelated to weight in that my weight did not cause it. Hypothyroidism is related to weight in the sense that it makes it easy for one to gain weight and difficult to lose it.
Another fat vegetarian! I eat the healthiest in my family, yet I have the highest fat percentage. I also exercise 3 times a week. Though as far as I know, I don't have any thyroid disorder or anything like that. I think some bodies just prefer to be fat. I was a fat kid, fat teenager, and now a fat adult. But I think it'll be a cold day in hell before that idea is widely accepted.
I lost 60 percent of my body weight in one year during my bout with anorexia; at my thinnest, I weighed 125-pounds. The only way I could maintain that weight was through an anorexic lifestyle in which I exercised for several hours each day and ate less than 800 calories a day. And yet when I weighed 125 pounds, my BMI fell in the middle range of what is considered to be "average" for my height. We accept that people are meant to have different hair, eye and skin colors, and that some people are tall and some people short, yet we seem to think that the human body should be uniform in weight? It doesn't make sense.
BMI is really, really strange. I've got really wide hips for a man & a very broad chest. When I was 17, thin, & muscular, I was still 'morbidly obese' by BMI standards.
BMI is also racially biased - I have a friend who is a tiny woman, barely 5 foot tall and rail thin, but BMI says she's "morbidly obese".
Reason?
She's a Black woman who's family emigrated from Ghana. The natural size of her hips and butt makes her "obese" according to the BMI standard, despite her skinniness!
Who invented "BMI" anyway - and is it even legitimate science, or just another marketing tool for the diet industrial complex?
It is a Taylor series done for more detailed measures, and is generally only thought to be "valid-ish" for people in the 5'2" to 6'2" regime (Taylor series being what they are), and even then only with typical builds and so forth (e. g. weightlifters are invariably morbidly obese). One would probably guess (to first order) that someone's mass density, and not their surface density, would be a more reasonable gauge (though I am lead to believe that is not quite right, as proportions do not scale quite like height).
Its main upshot is that everyone knows their height and weight, and can quickly calculate a BMI, while the main downside is that you need a pretty typical frame with a typical fat-muscle-organ breakdown and whatnot. More useful measures, like body fat percentage, are much more difficult to calculate, which is why BMIs tend to be popular (if not all that accurate).
Lots of good reading at http://www.halls.md/bmi/bibliography.htm
In addition, there are different racial guidelines on how to use BMI as a measure of healthyness, and it is still only a rough measure due to individual differences in frame.
This is from my memory, so it might be wrong, but I believe that a the "healthy" line is generally considered lower for Asians than for many Caucasians.
BMI is best used as a guideline in making judgments. One individuals BMI is not particularly useful in discussing weight and health (even the weight itself can be unrelated to fat). Alot of people misuse it as a good measure for individuals, and I myself sometimes informally refer to weight as BMI, but that isn't really an accurate term unless discussing populations.
For the record, hips and butt are not part of a BMI calcualtion. The calculation includes height and weight only. Further it is a population measure useful for epidemiology and --despite the fact that it is-- should not be applied to individuals.
Who invented "BMI" anyway - and is it even legitimate science, or just another marketing tool for the diet industrial complex?
It was invented in the mid 1800's by a Belgian mathematician/statistician named Adolphe Quetelet, who was neither a student nor practitioner of human health. It was designed to study overall weight trends in populations.
BMI was not developed to measure an individual’s health (which is logical seeing as how one cannot determine another’s health based on her or his weight and height). It wasn’t used for those purposes until around 1955 or so.
I agree that BMI is extremely unreliable. Based on the numbers, I fall into the high end of the "average" weight for my height/age range. However, I exercise regularly and eat a decent (by no means perfect) diet. I recently participated in a study that took three measures of body fat, and found out I have 17% body fat (in the "low" range for a woman). Regardless, my BMI puts me in the "warning" category (as in just barely in the healthy range).
In other words, despite the fact that I'm healthy and toned and have 17% body fat, I'm apparently nearly overweight according to my BMI.
Trying to apply any of these numbers to a majority of people is absurd. If you feel healthy and understand all of your health risks (not just the weight-related ones), you probably are healthy. Healthy enough to sock one to this sleazeball should he end up stalking you, at least.
The standard BMI charts were invented by a Belgian in the 19th century and were never intended for practical use. It was just a thought experiment. It's ridiculous that medical scientists use these charts as if they have something to offer.
Really?
Wow, so this statistic that's used to shame and humiliate people isn't even a valid measurement of the human body?
Why is that so not surprising?
So much for "science"!
Yep. That's why it doesn't account for different body types and is pretty racist. I've heard that there are new BMI charts, but the ones I have seen were made by that Belgian. Not to mention I can't even imagine the new chart accounting for all the different body types.
Whoa! Now THAT is messed up. I have to admit that I was still succumbing to some of the ideas society thrusts upon us about obesity... I never though that eating 800 calories a day could POSSIBLY cause someone to be 125 pounds... Wow..
Thank you for that. You just opened my world up a bit more.
I just watched this again. She is so cute! No, she's beautiful. Sooooo...Let's shame her into thinking she's a big fat hog?? Because we wouldn't want her to like herself for who she is. That is so *unhealthy*
Yes, she's gorgeous. Casting calls like this are what made me give up acting.
Yes, self love is so unhealthy!
It's so much better to hate yourself and think you are ugly!
Actually, there IS a reason for this - people who believe in themselves and love themselves buy a whole lot less.
But people who feel ashamed of themselves and hate themselves will buy lots of unnecessary products!
That's why Johnson and Johnson makes billions selling dangerous and toxic skin lightening cream to beautiful brownskinned women in Africa and India - and that's why they and the other drug companies make billions selling useless (and often dangerous) weight loss products to healthy American women.
Actually, that "overweight" woman will probably have a longer lifespan than her thin husband and thin stalker, oops, saviour. Several recent studies have confirmed that moderately overweight people have longer longevities than underweight and even average-weight folks. And as others mentioned here, there are dozens of reasons why someone might be fat that have absolutely nothing to do with what they put in their mouth. I've detailed just a few of those here.
I'm an eating disorders awareness activist and I've noticed recently the trend to lump "obesity" in with eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia as if being fat itself confers an eating disorder. Not only is it highly offensive to fat people who do not have disordered relationships with food, it's also medically irresponsible and grossly distorts what eating disorders are and what they aren't.
Rachel, I just want to say thanks for being part of this thread. I was going crazy reading these comments until yours started popping up!
I can't wait until the episode where the woman calls the cops about the guy who's been following her and taking pictures for days.
Hahaha! You all fell for it! Its a Joke! Its parody! Hell, its on WE network! It couldn't possibly be real! It would be totally wack if it was real! No woman I know would actually WATCH it!
It's a joke! A JOKE!
I wish this were a parody or spoof, but it's not...
See http://www.wetv.com/save-your-life/index.html
This kind of blatant policing of female behaviour is so totally offensive, I can hardly believe it's real.
This television show is appalling.
Noone should be stalked, ridiculed and harassed about their weight no matter the health risk, whether they are 140 pounds or 500 pounds. We dont have the same attitude toward people who smoke or people who drink alcohol and yet the health risk exists in these cases too.
Im sick of health being a reason to intervene in peoples personal lives and choices, particularly when it comes to weight. Its as though extra body fat makes you free game for anyone who wants to comment. If I choose to eat myself into a coma than thats my right as an individual and yes, though it does cost money for tax payers, so do multiple other lifestyle choices that arent as popular to criticize. This attitude is so hypocritical in a country that likes to tell fat people to stop eating while pumping food with ingredients that cause addiction. I mean seriously, the stuff we feed our kids at school cafeterias and the supposedly healthy snacks that contain more sodium than a salt lick are the problem. Blame the sin not the sinner.
This topic makes me so angry. It wouldnt be any better if the woman in the video was 100 pounds heavier, she still doesnt deserve to get embarrassed on cable television.
The canard about fat costing taxpayers money is ridiculous in a country that fiercely supports the right to own automatic weapons and that produces cars like humvees. Does anyone believe that more taxpayer dollars are spent on fat than are spent quelling the chaos created by catastrophic traffic accidents and gunshot wounds?
The whole "obesity costs taxpayers x amount" and "obesity kills x Americans each year" figures are based on a report prepared by the CDC years back that was picked up on by the media and continues to be trotted out despite the fact that the CDC later retracted the flawed study after it was found to contain grossly exaggerated numbers. The CDC buried the retraction and does not bother to correct media reports that continue to use the original numbers.
Not to mention, the threshold determining overweight and obese was lowered in 1997, so that 35 million Americans were turned overweight overnight based on the recommendations of a panel with extensive ties to the multi-billion-dollar-a-year diet industry. Think about it: If obesity were a leading cause of death and more people fit within overweight and obese categories, the government is more apt to require insurers to pay for diets and weight-loss surgeries, meaning even more money in the wallets of fat cat dietmongers.
In fact, the most recent studies show that smokers and the obese generally cost less, over their lifetime, in medical expenses.
I'm sure that the women features have to agree to and sign off on her story and likeness being aired on public television first, but I question how much of an informed choice this really is. So many fat people are willing to accept blame for being fat and believe that they deserve the shame doled out to them by society because they feel it is their punishment for being fat.
Nobody stalks White male corporate executives and polices THEIR unhealthy and socially destructive behavior!
This kind of blatant policing of female behaviour is so totally offensive, I can hardly believe it's real.
This television show is appalling.
Noone should be stalked, ridiculed and harassed about their weight no matter the health risk, whether they are 140 pounds or 500 pounds. We dont have the same attitude toward people who smoke or people who drink alcohol and yet the health risk exists in these cases too.
Im sick of health being a reason to intervene in peoples personal lives and choices, particularly when it comes to weight. Its as though extra body fat makes you free game for anyone who wants to comment. If I choose to eat myself into a coma than thats my right as an individual and yes, though it does cost money for tax payers, so do multiple other lifestyle choices that arent as popular to criticize. This attitude is so hypocritical in a country that likes to tell fat people to stop eating while pumping food with ingredients that cause addiction. I mean seriously, the stuff we feed our kids at school cafeterias and the supposedly healthy snacks that contain more sodium than a salt lick are the problem. Blame the sin not the sinner.
This topic makes me so angry. It wouldnt be any better if the woman in the video was 100 pounds heavier, she still doesnt deserve to get embarrassed on cable television.
The health risks of drinking and smoking are WORSE than being overweight. They're also actually scientifically proven (or as close to that as is possible) as causes, whereas weight "problems" are a) disputed by reputable scientific studies as much - if not more - than they are supported and b) at best correlations; there is nothing to prove causation.
But it's much better drama to stalk the curvy gal than the smoker. Curvy gal smells better, so it's easier for the stalker, too.
What really gets me is how pathetic, sad, insecure men like this feel so threatened by anyone who looks like a woman instead of a helpless teen or pre-teen girl.
If he wants to save lives, he should be working to deconstruct the myth that feminine beauty is a 5'8", 100 pound woman with a C-cup - not perpetuating it. Women are way more at risk of health problems and/or death from weighing too LITTLE than from weighing too MUCH...and none of these ladies is even close to being dangerously heavy. They all look pretty normal and reasonably healthy to me. You want to bitch about health risks or expenses to the taxpayer? Look at what anorexia, bulimia and fad diet complications cost us annually.
Guys like this are what make me contemplate purchasing a set of gelding irons to carry around with me.
Even if it's a joke, it's horrendously unfunny. It's still choosing normal women and portraying them as undisciplined hogs just because they don't look like the skeletal freaks stalking the streets of Hollywood and invading our homes through television, magazines and the Internet.
By the way is anyone else SICK TO DEATH of getting targeted for weight loss and tummy flattening ads on FaceBook?
Well, no need to call anyone a "skeletal freak" or get all "thin women aren't real women" about it.
That's policing the body too, ya know.
I'm sorry if you think I'm policing the body - but I'm not saying being thin makes anyone not a woman. I'm saying that disordered behaviors like self-induced vomiting, self-imposed starvation, or compulsive overexercise are necessary to achieve the bodies promoted to us as being "natural". They're not, never have been, and never will be "natural". People come in different shapes and sizes, absolutely! But there's a big difference between being naturally petite, and forcing yourself to a level of thinness that requires not only severely abnormal behaviors, but that also endangers your health in myriad ways. All of these women are normal, and the only reason someone would act as if they weren't is because they expect women to fit into a very narrow, very strictly defined mold of "femininity" - one that absolutely requires an eating disorder to attain.
I meant the term "freak" only as in "statistically extreme outlier" - not as an insult. And I think most people would agree with me that the vast majority of women who are successful in the media industry are unnaturally, skeletally thin to the point of being statistical freaks as well as being eating disordered.
On the whole "thinness = healthy" meme:
The New York City Transit Authority did a study on sick passenger incident-related train delays.
They found that a majority of the incidents where a passenger was so sick that the train crew had to stop the train and call the fire department to rescue the passenger involved extremely thin and/or underweight women passengers.
So, in a city where most of the women are [according to the diet industry] "overweight" most of the folks who passed out sick on the subways were extremely thin women.
So much for "thin = healthy"!
YES I am SOO sick of weight loss fad ads on facebook. I usually try to click the thumbs down button and say the ad was offensive, but they still come up. It's so very annoying...because I'm a woman, I get the weight loss ads. Thanks, Facebook.
I had this issue, too---as soon as I removed my gender from my profile. . .no more weight loss ads!
I did that too. I also removed "interested in" and now I don't get weird dating ads, either. I have facebook open in another window and right now I have an ad for watches, wallets, and trips to Australia. I haven't seen a creepy sexiest ad in ages. :D
Ah... I remember the days of seeing facebook ads...
Thank you firefox and adblock plus.
Some educational counterprogramming to deal with car-stalkers.
P.S. Damon Wayans?!?
It looks like the husband set her up. I would kick both of their asses.
DIVORCE.
Seriously. I would feel so completely betrayed if my wife did something like that.
There is an intense need for our society to confront overeating and obesity, but this is not the way to do it.
This is just creepy.
However, it is being produced for WE, which suggests that some committee or person thinks it will sell well to women. What do we say if the ratings for it are average or good?
Excuse me, but who deputized you as the food Gestapo?
Nobody has any need to "confront" anybody because of their body size!
American society has an "intense need" to mind it's fucking business about people's personal lives!
Nobody needs to be dictating to anybody about what body size they are!
Would you want me going to your house and confronting YOU about YOUR body size?
Lecturing YOU about how you are too thin and making you eat T bone steaks, scrambled eggs and potatoes with sour cream?
They are called "boundaries" - everybody has 'em, and they ALL need to be respected (even fat people's) - so keep your body size opinions to yourself!
Remember, this doesn't have a damned thing to do with "health" and everything to do with America's cultural obsession with thinness as moral salvation and fatness as a moral failing.
It's just another form of American puritan psychosis run amok.
You know, I disagree completely with your description of the state of medicine in relation to obesity, but... with this comment I can only say one thing:
Right on!
I'm not sure why you react with such vitriol. I am not referring to overeating/obesity as in a body image problem, but in terms of health ramifications. People are dying from obesity-related illnesses and I don't think it's unusual or Gestapo-esque (Godwin's Law, anyone?) to devote to obesity the same scrutiny we currently place on cancer and heart disease. On that note, it is very disturbing that you place the health effect of obesity in quote marks.
I never suggested going to people's houses and looking through their food or telling them (as individuals) how they MUST eat or live. I'm pretty sure my original post condemns this TV show.
I do not condone anyone singling out overweight or obese people, shaming them, etc. But the rates of obesity in the U.S. and around the world will not go away by pretending that fat and the associated health risks do not exist. Rather, there needs to be an aggressive educational plan put in place to give people access to resources for managing their eating and their weight.
Specifically, I would love to see phys ed or health class assignments in schools where children keep a journal of the calories they eat for a week, a month, or a semester. I would love to see programs for parents to get engaged with their kids (because while a class assignment of a calorie journal may raise awareness, it's the equivalent of taking Spanish for a semester and then never speaking Spanish again). I would love to see pricing guides for cheap, HEALTHY meals posted in or near grocery stores (not by the govt per se, but an advocacy group would work well). I focus so much on families and children because obese children become obese adults, and they are afflicted with learned overeating which can become deadly as they age.
Obesity SHOULD be confronted for health reasons, not because of body size opinions. (I mean obesity in general, not obese people as individuals, by the way.)
" I would love to see phys ed or health class assignments in schools where children keep a journal of the calories they eat for a week, a month, or a semester."
That is the most fucked up suggestion I've ever heard in my life. Counting calories is the devil. Especially for kids.
Why is it the devil? It makes you aware of what you are eating. My high school did it, though to be precise: you wrote the food, the calories, the target nutrients, etc. It was not shared with other students.
Why?
To make the kids ashamed of themselves - especially the heavier girls?
What kind of assholes would think that constitutes good education?
Whoever dreamed up that curriculum was a psychologically abusive power nazi who had no business being around children, let alone teaching them!
It's basically an anorexia training program!
If you eat too much, and you eat the wrong things, you get fat.
Having a journal that keeps track of calories (a good starting point for quantifying how much you eat) as well as the nutritional value of your diet will help many people to keep from overeating. Some of my friends cannot even remember what they ate in the morning if the subject comes up at night, because the process is so automatic.
Having a journal educates people about their own limits (which isn't a hard 2000cal/day for everyone of course). Having a journal and being able to reference it when you lose/gain weight is empowering if you don't overdo it. It's not for everyone, but kids should be educated about the possibility.
And I'm going to respond to your other comment here since I don't want to go around hitting reply on everything: you are once again exaggerating my point to fit your own dramatic view of "what pleco thinks." I didn't say ANYTHING about shaming fat children, regulating intake, or regulating parenting. At my high school you got a grade for completing the journal, not a grade for what you ate.
You don't solve a problem by ignoring it.
If you eat too much, and you eat the wrong things, you get fat.
Ok now, this is patently untrue, as several commenters have pointed out in this thread by sharing their personal stories. Are you telling me that you don't know any thin people that eat "too much" and "the wrong things"?!
lol! Everyone knows you solve a problem by SHAMING people for something controlled largely by genetics.
Hey, I did that! Only when I did it, it was called an eating disorder!
Counting calories does not necessarily equal an eating disorder.
No, but having kids dutifully record their caloric intake and placing an inordinate focus on calories consumed/burned is a great way to set the stage for one. Notice here that the focus is only on calories, and not, say, carbohydrates, vitamins, fiber, or any of the other nutrients that all play a role in health.
You'd be right if the poster you were responding to didn't mention "other target nutrients."
Yes, that sounds like a classic symptom of anorexia to me too. Way to encourage kids to have a fucked up relationship with food.
I'm all for teaching what's healthy and what's not, but I'm not sure I trust the schools to do that when I look at what they put on the lunch menus.
Can't we all figure out a way to depathologize our relationship with food and weight? The present system of hyper-focus and shaming is not working, and I hate to see proposals like this, that would indoctrinate a whole new generation of kids into these obsessive and unhealthy perspectives.
Calorie counting is NOT healthy.
Good god. That really is the worst suggestion I've ever heard. High schoolers are people at a crucial, vulnerable stage in their lives. Outside of all those already in the throes of an eating disorder, many of them have flirted with the idea, and you suggest that they all keep food diaries? To encourage their unhealthy obsession with what they eat? Do you not remember being an insecure adolescent? Seriously, crap idea.
Pleco,
Again, who appointed you as the chief of the food Gestapo?
I don't remember reading about it in the paper or seeing it on CNN!
You seem obsessed with telling other people what to do with their lives in a quite frightening way!
Your ideal world where the school system would regulate the food intake kids (and their parents) is a fascistic horror!
I would hate to live in a world run by people who think like you!
The greatest right of all is the right to be left alone
What part of that don't you understand?
Really!??? You want kids in school counting every calorie they put in their mouth? Because I guess girls need to have even more focus and pressure on what they weigh and eat. Even though the numbers of girls with eating disorders keeps increasing. I am with you in that I wish schools would serve healthy meals instead of the junk they do (in my district anyway) and I am all for teaching about nutrition in foods but having kids keep calorie journals is ridiculous and unhealthy. Also, keep in mind that unhealthy foods costs a lot less in general than healthy food and that is why (along with parents who don't have the time to shop and prepare fresh wholesome produce on a daily basis) that many kids eat unhealthy at home.
And there is that in many areas, decent foodstuffs made out of actual food are simply not available: in many inner-city areas there are no supermarkets, only convenience-markets and liquor stores that sell only snacks and perhaps a small selection of packaged processed foods:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cg5yrz == Chicago Tribune
http://preview.tinyurl.com/d2egld == City on a Hill Press
http://preview.tinyurl.com/dfo2ur == Los Angeles Times
http://preview.tinyurl.com/cgrdya == Web of Creation
http://preview.tinyurl.com/d47aev == The National Institutes of Health, via PubMed
Of course, those articles are primarily concerned with health issues, with working-class people and largely with persons of color, while the stalker in the video has demonstrated that -- his whine of "I want to save your life" to the contrary -- he's primarily interested in the aesthetic value of middle-class white women.
Yep, this sounds tailor-made to not only cause yet more eating disorders (as well as probably make things quite a bit worse for the students who already have one), but shame students from poorer families, those where the parent(s) don't have time to cook, and more. There are tons of reasons why a person, kid or not, might not want people studying what they eat too closely. As a kid I had a seriously messed-up diet, probably thanks to my ASD (extreme fussiness about food is common; I had it in spades. I think I spent years basically subsisting on cornflakes, bread and butter and the occasional pizza). Would I have wanted my classmates to know about that? Would I want people *now* to know about my diet, which is still kind of screwed up, again because of disability? Hell no!
Lol, I love this blog... +16 for pulling out godwin's law!
Our society needs to stop being so fucked up about food, not police overeating more than it already does.
It's interesting how Miriam asks, "Not only is this creepy, it's just plain wrong in so many ways. Do we really need ANOTHER television show that tells women they are ruining their lives because of what they put in their mouths?"
And then the comments that follow include observations that the woman isn't really fat enough to warrant stalking, assertions (and reassertions) that of course fat is bad, and arguments that we should "blame the sin, not the sinner."
I'm beginning to think that, in the absence of an active moderator screening out fatphobic comments such as these, any posting such as the one Miriam put forth just acts as an invitation to more fatphobia.
And I'd like to put forward that comments such as the ones above make this blog an unsafe space for fat women, a space supportive of disordered thinking about food and women's bodies, and an actively antifeminist space.
I'm all for drawing attention to misogyny, but I would have hoped that the mods would've learned something from the discussions about moderation and safe spaces and considered how posting without moderating can be not just counterproductive but hostile to women.
Do we really need ANOTHER blog that tells women they are ruining their lives because of what they put in their mouths?
Heh, I'm afraid I agree with you.
I think a bunch of different, unrelated, ideas have gotten conflated together in the comments and its turning into a bit of a mess.
I think we can all agree that Healthy Is Good. I think we should also agree that it is entirely irrelevant to the discussion above. It smacks of the mainstream reaction to Susan Boyle. "My goodness, he's stalking a woman who isn't even that fat! How inappropriate!" It doesn't matter what weight this woman is, how healthy she is, or if she has a mullet. Trying to make someone hate their body is wrong no matter what.
While being healthy certainly has its benefits, I am generally wary of ascribing moral qualities to health since so much of our personal health is subject to influences beyond our control. And if good health is good, what does that then say about people who, for various reasons, are not in good health? Are they any less "good" than us healthy people?
And who says healthy = skinny anyway?
That's just a cultural prejudice masquerading as "scientific fact".
I think what most of us were trying to say when pointing out that the actress in the video was not that fat is that she is used as the model by the network, advertisers, society at large, etc. of someone who is "killing herself" or out of control. That the bar measuring who looks acceptable is being dropped every day is disconcerting. I already feel invisible and obsolete by society's standards and it looks like it's just getting worse.
In no way was I suggesting that if she was 100 pounds heavier the stalking would be warranted. My reaction upon seeing the video was one of anger that a channel supposedly designed for women could not see the beauty in her wonderfully curvy body and instead felt the need for a man to follow her around and record everything that she puts in her mouth and that
I guess my point is that Fat Shaming is starting earlier and earlier and at smaller sizes. When are we going to demand a stop to this??
I'm with you on the frustration. I often find the comments in postings about weight to be triggering. Hence my snarky comment about the health police above. I keep telling myself that I shouldn't read them.
I think you were taking the comments that she is not that heavy out of context. I don't believe those were left with the intent to have the reader infer (as you did) that it would therefore be ok if she was heavier. I think they were left to point out how out of touch Americans are about what an average weight looks like on a woman (being constantly bombarded with skeletal models, actresses and singers) and to point out that besides this show being morally wrong it is plain ridiculous because unlike a 800 pound woman who might be in danger of dying if she does not lose weight this woman looks like she is not in danger of dying and needing her life "saved" by this screwball.
"Do we really need ANOTHER blog that tells women they are ruining their lives because of what they put in their mouths?"
This comment FTW!
I'm a fat activist and personally find it heartening that the overwhelming majority of the commenters are fat positive. The WORLD isn't a safe space for fat women and running away and not confronting that is harmful. If someone is so sensitive that they can't confront negative feelings then they shouldn't read comments anywhere on the internet.
I see where you're coming from, but I would point out that when such comments as you fear are added to the blog, they're also seem to be met with a large plurality of well-reasoned, convincing counter-argument. The idea of moderating (and I'm assuming you suggest deleting?) every idea that could be construed as offensive in order to create a safe-space is pretty dangerous, and incredibly subject to the bias of who determines what is offensive. Although you can argue that many of the statements here are factually wrong, and potentially offensive, I believe they are generally sincere reactions to the topic, and should not be preemptively dismissed. If you don't like a comment, argue against it. The only situations where something should be moderated so strictly are clear attacks on posters or people in general, but it should not extend to poorly reasoned, or even biased comments that aren't clearly intended as attack or derailment.
This guy comes across like a perverted stalker - and actually, in most states, including mine, that's EXACTLY what he'd be considered to be.
Second, as I'm sure folks here know very well, in a brutal fat shaming society like ours, if it was easy to lose weight, most heavy people would do it.
But it's not easy - and no, not because fat people all eat cupcakes and ice cream sundaes all day (I know I don't!) but because many folks have a genetic predisposition to being fat, which, combined with that miracle of modern American food science HFCS, makes us prone to get heavy.
But shows like this shame fat women into thinking that being fat is a moral failing that can be cured by some good old fashioned American public humiliation (combined with some pervo stalking in this version).
I love how she goes to the bar, sits alone, and orders like 6 scoops of ice cream. Way to be subtle.
If my boyfriend did that to me I could never regain the trust we had. And I would never feel sexy or attractive again in front of him. I think an intervention like that would totally ruin their marriage and family.
I have been watching this thread, but I don't think the debate about how best to moderate comments has a definitive answer or solution.
Other readers and commenters have been engaging and arguing with the comments in this thread that purport ideas that others disagree with. I think that debate and back and forth is a big part of what comment threads are about.
Unless I moderate in a way that deletes every comment that doesn't agree exactly with my line of reasoning, I'm not sure if a "safe space" is truly achievable, or how we could even determine what that would look like.
Again, we're in the process of re-evaluating our comment moderation style and policies.
Currently if you see a comment you think violates our current comment policy, you should use the report abuse button and we'll look closer at it.
Yes, there is an active back-and-forth going on, but if you read the comments in the order they were posted, you will see that much of the commenters who wrote in defense of "fat doesn't equal unhealthy" did so only in response to those commenters who sought to derail the conversation with discussions on how unhealthy fat is -- as if that is at all relevant to the post.
I realize the difficulty in moderating a popular blog and I agree that there can't really be any 100 percent safe places on a forum like this, but consider this: What if the show ridiculed gay people instead and was structured in a way that sought to turn them straight. Comments were then posted passively supporting such a show by claiming that being gay is unnatural, perverted and unhealthy. Would moderators let those kinds of comments stand?
Thanks for not caving to the pressure to delete all comments that disagree with the main post. I really like a debate and good discussion as long as it is respectful and I must admit I have been a little frightened from some of the attitudes of commentators here that in order for a space to be "safe" no one is allowed to disagree. Yes, abusive comments need to be deleted and the people who post them banned, but please continue to keep the ability to disagree part of this site. I think that if we lose that than we are no better than those who wish to silence us. I come from a very conservative town where nobody who disagrees with the main view is allowed to voice an opinion without being demonized, shouted out or ignored. I have been disappointed to discover that so many fellow liberals on this site act in very similar ways. If I were not allowed to voice disagreement with some posts or read disagreements with posts that I agree with than I don't think I would have been able to reach the level of deep reflection about certain issues that I have or able to formulate and vocalize my opinion in as concise of ways.
You said it perfectly. If we can agree to disagree, to listen to what the people who have a different opinion have to say, then I see progress. We don't necessarily need to agree with what disagreers say...but to ignore it as irrelevant is ignorant. Don't need to believe, but need to accept. If everyone in the world practiced this...I think the world would be a much better place and some problems that exist today would not.
Sponsors...boycott them.
That is all.
word.
....while I don't have cable and have never seen that channel, I am guessing most of their sponsors peddle diet garbage that doesn't even qualify as real food, activia yogurt *snark* and junk food commercials.
I'll definitely watch this. I love hating people for their own good!
apologies of this has already been said but i noticed a few comments about how we deem thin women as attractive but as i went to the youtube location for this vid-and the only comments that were left there were about how hot that girl in the video is. so obviously not everyone thinks like that. plus why do we need strange men coming up to us telling us about our bodies? there seems to be a few of these programmes about.
If that woman were me he'd have to worry more about his own life once I got wind of it.
Just as a clarification, I've seen other commercials for this program and he doesn't just stalk women... There is at least one episode where he stalks a dude.
So he's an equal opportunity asshole?
Wow, this is a loaded subject, but I want to come to the defense of people who reacted, "Geez, she isn't even that fat!"
I really don't think (I hope :)) that they meant that a heavier woman would deserve this treatment. I don't think anyone does and this show infuriates me. If it is a joke, it's not funny.
This woman looks "average" to me. Not skinny, not fat, just average. Now this is subjective, of course. I think the "not that fat" outrage is more of an objecting to society's viewing even an average build as something worthy of a sensationalistic, humiliating show like this. (Again, not that any weight deserves this. These people are human beings.) We women are always told we are not normal, and that we are supremely ugly if we don't fit the extremely narrow box society contructs for us. Even I admit feeling more rage when I see a so-called "ugly" or "fat" girl being harrassed online, and she's only just normal-looking (horrors). It's indicative of that Socially Acceptable Box shrinking and shrinking until there's no more room. Because, now it's less about the fact that someone finds her ugly, and more about just shaming women for whatever, because if we get women to feel constant shame, then we'll shut up and stop taking up space.
I feel like this has nothing to do with health. I feel like it has to do with shame.
Something about this show seems to expose a very ugly part of our society, face up, about our perception of appearance and "health". We don't see nearly the same amount of media attention to smokers, we barely see any attention to out-of-control drinkers. And most importantly, we don't see nearly the same amount of shaming, of attention, to anorexic or bulimic people. People who are also putting their lives at risk.
I believe the reason is because appearance is such a central part of our society, especially for women, that health is almost considered irrelevant nowadays. Eating vegetables, fruits, and whole grains with no sugar is the way to be thin. Going to the gym daily is the way to be thin.
It seems like thin and healthy are now synonymous within our society. And healthy really doesn't matter in the end.
It's how you look for everyone else that's important. And the only reason it's women being covered in because our bodies are treated like public property.
And that's proved by the fact that people with eating disorders (while they do have some scrutiny), are generally perceived in a better light than those who are overweight. Often, the thought behind it supported by the society is that anorexic girls are DISCIPLINED. It is almost held up. This is only from personal experience, but I can't count on my fingers how many times I have heard girls (I would say people, but really it only has been girls) have said, "I wish I had the discipline to be anorexic" or "man I wish I was able to do that". Of course, this is only from personal experience, and I pray that the sentiment is not more widespread.
Eating disorders are unhealthy. Being morbidly obese is unhealthy. Why is only one given attention? Why is only one shamed?
Because being "fat" is considered unattractive by our society, and being "thin" is considered attractive. Health has absolutely nothing to do with this. It's about making yourself acceptable for societies' eyes. It's about forcing yourself to conform to what society tells you to do. It's about making yourself something for someone else. The notion that this women is happy with the way she is isn't even addressed in the show. She doesn't even speak; everyone just assumes she hates the way she looks, because well why wouldn't she? She isn't doing what we're telling her she should do. She isn't being the completely sexy goddess that we demand she must be, by nature of being a woman. Her worth is measured by her appearance, and since she isn't beautiful by the standards we impose on her, she is worthless! Worthless, and someone who MUST change. Oh.. Because of her health, of course.
Women's bodies are considered public property, and when a woman doesn't do as society tells her she must do with her body, society perceives her as worthless, depressed, undisciplined, and often unintelligent enough to be able to tell what got her to the place she is in in the first place. So society shames her. And righteously brings it upon itself to change her.
This is what this show reflects about our society.
I find this whole thing to be completely disgusting. I think she is completely perfect how she is, that this show is hiding behind the word health to disguise it's real motives. And just as a disclaimer, I hope I did not offend anyone in any way by bringing up eating disorders. I know what a sensitive and difficult subject it is, as I have had personal experience with it... I merely meant to use it as a foil to point out the hypocrisy of this show. And just to make sure.. I really think that this woman is beautiful and fine the way she is. As far as the health issues debate goes... Well, you can comment on it if you like, but it's really not the point of my post. I didn't put very much focus on it at all.
I would argue that being bulimic has a lot of shame attached to it. I myself was anorexic and still feel a level of shame about it to the degree that only one other person in my life knows. Despite all I know rationally about it not being my fault I am afraid to tell people I meet or know because I am afraid it will change their judgement of me and they will view me as emotionally weak or somehow having a defect. I know it is not true but the fear is still there. So, though I have heard ppl make those stupid "i wish I was anorexic comments" i have heard a lot of negative comments about anorexia and "crazy stupid girls killing themselves and looking disgustingly thin" too and I would argue that in many cases the person is very ashamed and that is one of the reasons they are so secretive. I think one of the reasons fat people are shamed more by others (if this is even true) is because being fat is still considered a choice in our society (albeit a choice ppl don't respect) and having an eating disorder is considered a disease. Of course, I agree with you that shaming or telling anyone what to do with their bodies is wrong and that much of the problem is that women's bodies are considered public property.
Very, very fair point. Like I said, I've had experience with both disorders as well and it was with trepidation that I even brought it up in that post. I was unsure about exactly how the two differed in society (obesity versus eating disorders), though I knew there was a difference there and saying there is less shame seemed to fit closely, but even posting it I felt something was off. Your statement that eating disorders are seen as a disease while obesity is a choice was exactly the thing I was looking for, but somehow couldn't make the connection. Thanks.
I hope, though, that this point doesn't detract from the overall argument of my post.
Oh yeah. I just LOVE how they show her eating a powder pastry in the morning, and then getting a hotdog, then ice cream, and then bringing home pizza. Because fat people obviously just can't stop shoving food in their mouths.
I'm sure everyone knows a person who, despite their incredibly lazy lifestyle and unhealthy eating habits, remains ridiculously thin. One of my friends is very close to being considered "underweight" by her doctor, yet she refuses to eat vegetables. Her daily diet almost always included fried foods, rice krispies, soda, etc. Yet she is very very thin. I'm sure almost everyone