Adventures in conservative media (Laura Ingraham edition)
I was on the Laura Ingraham show yesterday morning to talk about The Purity Myth; it was a trip. One listener even called in to say that I was just pissed about not being a virgin anymore so I wrote the book to spread my sluttitude around. It was awesome.
If you want to listen (and check out my brand spanking new website!), click here.
0 TrackBacks
Listed below are links to blogs that reference this entry: Adventures in conservative media (Laura Ingraham edition).
TrackBack URL for this entry: http://www.feministing.com/cgi-bin/movabletype/mt-tb.fcgi/13364
to his "own demise," the first called ignored his father's advice to not eat candy he found in the street.
Most talkative corpse I've ever heard!
EDIT! sorry.
To his "own demise," the first caller ignored his father's advice to not eat candy he found in the street.
Most talkative corpse I've ever heard!
[random thoughts, i was writing my reaction as i listened]
she went to dartmouth?!!! haha. i go there and now we do have women and gender studies (i'm a major), yayayy.
VIRGINITY IS NOT A GIFT. ew. my vagina is a gift. my clitoris is a gift, NOT "virginity". grosssss.
i can't believe they are saying that sex makes girls depressed?!!! OMG. angry, angry, angry
haha. kids that don't have sex don't get stds. thanks genious. except that masturbation is sex. so you're wrong.
you don't eat candy you find in the street????
are you a fan of the morning after pill? YES.
"your sexuality is incredibly powerful"--> reminds me of Jenna from 30 Rock.
Jess you were amazing and these people are completely irrational and stubborn.
PS: haha i can't believe they played Britney's "i'm a slave" after your interview.
Yeah, Ingraham talking about girls who have sex being more likely to be depressed was not helping her case: if a girl is taught that having sex means she has "given away her gift", that she's "lost something special", that she's become like "candy in the street", would any rational person be surprised if she was depressed?
This was serious rhetorical fail.
BINGO. yeah they feel depressed because everyone is telling them they are shameful people!!! grrr
hoolissa,
"your sexuality is incredibly powerful"--> reminds me of Jenna from 30 Rock.
this is hilarious. good to have the funny to balance the outrage. thanks!
Gah. I'm only like two minutes in and I feel the need to scrub my brain out. Jessica, I'm so impressed by your composure.
As always, you were composed and amazing! Way to go, Jessica!
I get so upset when these people think you are attacking their position or trying to promote sex. Its not about that! Its about a new discussion on sex and on sexuality!
Also, its ironic that when you say we shouldn't focus on girl's sexuality and whether or not they are having sex....that's all they can do is talk about girls having sex and how horrible it is.
Actually, I thought that caller was more implying that you were trying to spread a literal disease around, e.g. aids. I listened to it again & I think he's more crazy than you gave him credit for.
Also, the last woman who called was amazing: she completely misunderstands the phrase "shame-based abstinence education" & then proceeds to describe the shame that a woman who has pre-marital sex should feel. WTF, mate?
Yeah, that last caller kind of blew my mind.. she got all offended about Jessica calling abstinence only education shame-based, and then proceeded to say that she told her daughter she'd be dirt if she had sex?
Exactly! Me and my boyfriend were listening and we just kept saying, "These people are missing the point!"
It's like they won't give themselves two seconds to let the information sink in and THEN make judgments, before they start talking out of their asses.
Laura Ingraham skeeves me out. You did an awesome job of remaining collected in a hostile environment. Way to represent, Jess, as always.
I am so impressed, you were accessible and articulate as usual, thanks for reiterating that I am more than a hymen. My sexuality is NOT powerful, I AM. I find the idea that intercourse is the most important/special thing I can offer insulting and demeaning!
I like that they use a conservative source to validate their statistics about those who choose "purity" and how they try to tie sex to depression and suicide. Hello, there are way more factors contributing to depression and suicide than just having sex. Also, it's interesting that Laura just ignores Jessica's argument and talks about how sex hurts everyone. The one caller who emphasizes "your guest" over and over again is annoying and I like how he relates women to candy on the street and forgets that it takes two people to make a baby while commenting on teen pregnancy in his school.
that guy creeped me out so much.
yr a teacher. i don't want you dealing with young girls and then judging them for their own sexuality.
i don't want you THINKING about their sexuality at all.
seriously, am i alone here or is the concept of an older male teacher obsessing over his young female students' virginity or lack there of just creepy as all hell!?
Seriously, I don't know how you do it. I was so completely annoyed even 5 minutes into it. The whole "there is a correlation between having sex and depression/suicide rates" "so are you saying that 95% of the country, who have sex before being married, are suicidal?" "no! you're missing the point. there is just a correlation... duh!" thing.... Huh?
And how the one guy straight up used your example that if you have sex you are a used piece of candy... then Laura again says "No, Jessica, you're missing the point... he was talking about health.." What??
No one in this discussion is laughing at the kids who wait, or wear purity rings, or make pledges. We aren't saying, yeah, everyone should go out and have sex immediately. We are saying people need to make the choice for themselves, and should have all the information they need to make the healthy choice FOR THEM, without being scrutinized for it, whatever it is. I don't get how that's hard to understand.
Also, I wonder if Laura is against ALL forms of medication... or just birth control.
I could seriously go on and on about how nuts these people are. You did an amazing job.
I checked out your new site, and my first reaction is that it's disheartening that a feminist magazine describing a feminist website has to resort to a turn of phrase like "balls-out". Can't we come up with a metaphor for daring, no-holds-barred activity that doesn't privilege masculinity?
I thought I heard somewhere that the phrase "balls out" is non-testicular in origin, despite what it sounds like.
I don't generally like to rely on Urban Dictionary for definitions, but given that this isn't a phrase likely to appear in the OED...
Several of the top definitions include any explanation similar to this one:
Any engineers or linguists want to weigh in?
Interesting. I did some googling of my own on this and there seems to be debate on whether the steam engine thing is the actual origin or an attempt to make people uncomfortable with the testicular implication more comfortable. Merriam-Webster lists it as vulgar, however.
Given the context of the book, perhaps "Tits-out" would be more appropriate! ;)
Jes, you held back a lot. I would have been swearing a lot more. I don't like how Ingraham switched around the discussion to Plan B when you were discussing the teacher and how he advocates his dad's anecdote about eating street candy giving you AIDS or something.
Oh, and Dr Ingraham MD has a very valid point about Plan B. All those hormones will definitely kill you, if not your baybee. Best not to have sex at all. *crosses legs*
I also hate it when people mention their kids in political discussions. She came off as inarticulate, emotional, and intellectually inflexible. You were cool, socially aware, and philosophically minded. Could have been more aggressive, but in right wing radio, that can backfire.
Finally, the "YOUR GUEST" guy. He's a teacher? Fuck me.
I definitely agree. I'm not a fan of using 'balls-out' as a description for an amazing, brave, courageous, outspoken, and brilliant feminist (look at all these other adjectives! pick one!).
I agree, that made me very uncomfortable. I'm so tired of people equating power and strength and courage with having balls. I'd feel better if balls could mean testicles OR ovaries, but clearly nobody thinks ovaries make you strong. : (
On a messageboard, after I complained and bitched about the use of the term "she has balls" (reference to Clinton) as if balls are the only metaphor for strength, I got at least a few people to instead use "eggs" in place of "balls."
If we wanted to be annoying, we could refer to brave men as having "enormous eggs," but that just seems snarky.
I think I'll stick with saying brave and forward-thinking women have eggs.
Men can keep their balls.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but "eggs" is also a slang term for testicles.
I will rain on your parade with this, though: why use terminology that equates depth of character with anatomy at all? This seems like an effort to reverse some patriarchal errors by switching the sex but keeping the initial ignorance.
"Don't mean to rain on your parade, but "eggs" is also a slang term for testicles."
Hm - never heard it.
"why use terminology that equates depth of character with anatomy at all? This seems like an effort to reverse some patriarchal errors by switching the sex but keeping the initial ignorance.
I suppose it is a reversal.
And it's only ignorance if you actually BELIEVE balls or eggs (or any other part of the anatomy) equal courage.
Huevos is Spanish for "eggs" and slang for "testicles."
I love the double meaning in the transliteration. Oh, that's beautiful. Now I'm going to be running around telling all my friends, "Dude. Grow some huevos."
Great job keeping your cool Jessica!
I really could not have addressed those ridiculous sensationalist points that woman was making without getting mean.
Keep spreading the truth! Maybe somebody listening to that show learned something.
You did a great job, Jessica!
"You don't eat candy you found in the street." oh gosh. You handled that one well. They were very stubborn.
Just listening to these people raises my blood pressure; I do NOT know how you speak diplomatically to people who just plain DO NOT listen to what you say. They literally did not respond to what you *actually said*. They just wanted to hear their own voices.
She is a horrible talk show host.
And if I hear the phrase "give it away" one more time I'm going to wretch.
Yeah...that phrase always bugs me. As opposed to what, exactly...selling it? For a shiny ring?
And yet they'd call me a slut...
What I can't figure out is that my high school boyfriend and I lost our virginity together. So does that mean we just traded virginities? Do I still have his all these years later? Should I put it on my shelf like a trophy?
yeah, my heart goes out to the poor girl who was just confirmed and her mom and dad took her out for dinner to talk about how her value is placed in her vagina. man i have been there. clawed my way out though.
I am still clawing my way out. The brain washing has been so deep. I want to thank feministing for being here to help.
I WAS depressed and suicidal. But I think that that (along with abuse) LED me to promiscuity, not the other way around. [It has taken me a long time to realize that - 35 years.]
And having society then turn around and call me a slut, which even my mother did, just made the depression and shame and confusion worse.
I wasn't the one who should have been ashamed, it should have been my abusers.
Jessica is right: we need to present all the information, and all the choices, not decide FOR our daughters that abstinence is best, but allow that as an equal choice with sex, done at the right time, for the right PERSONAL, INDIVIDUAL, reasons.
Meanwhile, encourage our children to explore other interests and so on - sex is just one part of life. It is certainly not the be all and end all of a person's character.
oh man, my heart goes out to you. i'm glad you have found a place to help find your own true strength and power and give a proud middle finger to those who insulted you!
*Barf*
I can't believe how condescending the callers were, calling you "Your Guest" and "girl" instead of by your name! Or you know, actually talking to you instead of around you. I also can't believe that Ingraham told you it's going to be different when you have children. There's plenty of parents who feel differently from her and her ilk, and who want children to wait until they're ready, but also don't hinge their children's (especially girl's) morality on their sexual activeness before marriage.
Anyway, I think you did a good job. It's just too bad Laura Ingraham and all her callers mostly used anecdotes as arguments. The thing is that everything we do has consequences, even choosing to be abstinent until marriage, that people might regret. However, giving children as much information as possible would do a lot in greatly minimizing the bad consequences that can come with having sex at any age. It's been proven here in the US and in other countries.
Finally lol at Ingraham when she was arguing with you about Plan B. I think if you had told her that you want non-prescriptive access for girls of all ages, not just 17, I think her head would exploded. And people take hormonal medication all the time. Does she think people shouldn't take insulin shots either? Insulin is a hormonal drug after all. Crazyness.
Jessica-
I couldn't listen on my computer. Any way we could download an MP3? I could listen to that on my phone. I would love to hear this.
Laura Ingraham: I'm the last person to judge anyone, but have you seen those SLUTS on Laguna Beach? Blesstheirlittlehearts.
You were great, Jessica.
Damn. I only listened to the first eight minutes or so because I had to head to work, but I was really impressed by your friendly, patient answers to Ingraham's inane questions.
It's so, well, boring that people with her views just to ask things like "well, what age do you think girls should have sex? TWELVE? FOURTEEN?" and "so are you saying that people who choose to abstain from sex are WRONG or BAD?"
Does she really expect you to walk into those traps and dictate an age or trash celibate kids? Couldn't she come up with any better questions to ask a guest with views that so conflict with her own? I can think of about ten more provocative -- and, if playing devil's advocate, potentially damaging -- questions she could have asked.
I'd never heard Laura Ingraham's show and was surprised by how poor a host she came across as -- not in terms of her hosting you (I actually was expecting her to be way more hostile, and she seemed pretty cordial), but in her rambling, wordy, un-radio-friendly speech.
i kept listening and thinking, "my god. it sounds like bill o'reilly doing a shitty female impersonation!"
Jessica, you were great on the show.
It was so hard to listen to the call-in-guests essentially comparing sexually active women to trash in the street (or whatev). It was hard for me to understand how they couldn't see that making a woman's value about her sexual activity is exactly what you were advocating against. Ingraham's way of continuously implying that your message for girls was to go get boned was offensive and of course just what I expected. I couldn't go on those shows without losing it, and I really applaud your capacity to do so.
I'm continually impressed by how well you retain your composure in the face of utter insanity. If only everyone could come to a conversation in this frame of mind - perhaps more fruitful discussions would result.
Thanks, all! It was definitely interesting...I felt like the callers were all validating my exact argument - that people need to stop conflating women's morality with their virginity.
My god, she's [and her guests] so condescending to you - "This girl" "Your guest", et al. Way to keep your composure.
I hate that she keeps conflating your book to a clarion call for girls to go out and bang whatever moves when they're 14.
But really, these people did nothing except make your point for you. Maybe it was a lightbulb for a listener or two, and that's the first step. :)
jessica, can i ask a question, seriously not trying to be snarky....why do you go on these shows where you know it's going to be an antagonistic environment like that? you *know* the viewers of shows like this aren't taking you seriously, they're using you as a negative example and a crucible around which to further forge their misogynistic crap in their minds. i completely get behind going on left-wing or centrist (if that exists) shows, where you're taken seriously, but this seems to be putting yourself in the line of fire for no good reason. i know you need to do press to sell your book, but by giving them someone to mock openly, you're helping them, driving up their outrage and probably their ratings.
I'm not trying to answer for Jessica, but I have had this discussion with friends abstractly and the best answer that we came up with is that taking the argument to the other side is the only way to change people's minds.
Discussing it in a friendly environment is great, but it's just preaching to the choir. Plus, controversy sells more books than people patting each other on the backs for writing what they already agree about.
see, i can buy the changing-minds argument if it's more of a middle-of-the-road or respectful-debate kind of environment. but dr. laura, rush, ann coulter, etc....those sort of people and those who agree with them....i don't think their minds can't be changed. so, in my view, the only reason they ever try to engage sane people like jessica in debate is to their own ends (ratings, notoriety, solidifying the base), and i want to understand what would make that worth it.
oh my god you went on her show??? i could barely stomach the first 15 seconds about the plane flybys. oh my god!! you are a brave woman with a STEEL stomach. my respect for you just skyrocketed even more.
i love how she was like "jessica's all over, on the colbert report... and yeah..." dude, that was years ago.
Ingraham: "My next guest is just a big media slut who'll give it away to anyone with a microphone..."
What a bunch of garbage...don't know how Jessica managed to keep her head from exploding...
Wow, I just can't believe they couldn't see the correlation between girls who did not practice abstinence being depressed and suicidal and the pressures placed on girls to not have sex. If we took away the shame-based abstinence teaching and the negative attitudes of society towards girls who have sex then maybe they wouldn't be so depressed and suicidal.
How do you change the discourse when there are so many people out there as stubborn and close-minded as this??
Do these people wish thier daughters have crappy, unfulfilling sex lives? I'm a dad to an almost 2 year old daughter. Like you, I hope my daughter falls somewhere in the comfortable middle in terms of sexuality. I want her to grow into a well-rounded, happy, secure and productive human being. Part of that is having a healthy sexuality.
Her comment 'Rutgers is a fine school...they didn't have Women's Studies when I went to Dartmouth" made me giggle at my desk. Oooo she went to Dartmouth; we're so impressed.
haha, that made me laugh too. it's so childish. "My school was better than yours haahaaa"
wow, i love the sex=depression thing. umm people 'regret' having sex and feel depressed because of all the shaming. derrr.
haha. and the "YOUR GUEST" guy. That's Jessica Fucking Valenti to you, sir.
"aren't you worried about young people taking hormones!! oh noes!!" dude, fucking milk has hormones. does she want young women to not drink milk too??
hmmm, the reason I was depressed in high school was because I couldn't get any. Weird.
wow. i could rant forever. Jessica, you are *amazing* you never know - you might have reached some people out there and opened some minds. Thank you for putting yourself out there to educate. You were respectful when you weren't respected.
man, i hate when people say, "do you have kids," knowing they're setting up for, "well then you cannot comprehend what I am about to tell you."
"when you have a little daughter, you want to do everything you can do to protect her.." PUKE
a caller said that he taught his boys that girls aren't playthings? how about teaching them that girls are people?
Wow, these people really miss the point. Like that last caller. There is a something in between giving it away quickly to anyone and waiting until marriage. There are also unmarried young women having sex yet she keeps talking about young girls. So as a parent, you either have to be okay with your 12-year old having sex or not want them to have sex until marriage? I'm sure my parents are glad I waited till I was older than most but they never expected me to wait until marriage. That's just unrealistic.
Dear World,
How can I put this to you in words you understand. Orgasms feel good. For everyone. Men love to feel orgasms, and so do women. Sex is a physical pleasure, just like eating, or getting a deep-tissue massage, or laughing really really hard at something, or even crying your frustrations out.
In fact, sex is one of the most intimate and private pleasures two people can share between each other.
Stop trying to legislate it, control it, demonize it, and destroy it.
Maybe you belong to a religion which says physical pleasures are bad. Well, that's nice for you, but it doesn't actually mean anything in the material world. Just because you believe something, doesn't make it a Universal Truth.
Sex is fun for women and men. It doesn't destroy "souls", it doesn't ruin morality, and it doesn't dictate the type of character you have or the kind of person you are. Those things are destroyed from much more deep-seated psychological, emotional, and maybe even genetic issues. So just because you may turn into a sex-obsessed, self-deprecating, cheating, lying, awful person if you allow yourself to enjoy the physical pleasures our bodies offer, doesn't mean everyone else will. Maybe you need the invisible leash of religion or whatever. Not everyone does. Some - actually most - of us can actually enjoy orgasm after orgasm and still be good, honest, decent people.
So, world, get off our a**. Or, to put it more bluntly, get off our vaginas.
Sincerely,
Women.
That was beautiful.
EXACTLY.
i never understand the marriage between the christian right and the conservatives.
i mean, how can you CONSERVE the government and keep it small if you have to make everyone's sexuality yr business?
Keep fighting Jessica! We need you!
I looked up the study she was referring to (http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jan2001/nichd-04.htm), and she left a few details out:
"Compared to non-pledgers, pledgers were more likely to be religious, of Asian ancestry, to score lower on a verbal vocabulary test, and to be in a romantic relationship. They were also less advanced in pubertal development, on average, than were non-pledgers. " The thing that gets me is pubertal development bit. These kids don't have sex drives when they take the pledges, of course, they're not going to have sex!
"Once the pledge becomes normative, it ceases to have an effect," Bearman and Bruckner wrote. "The pledge identity is meaningful, consequently, only if it is a minority identity, a common situation for identity movements." So the attraction to the virginity pledge has nothing to do with an actual desire to "protect oneself." It is more tied in with feeling a need to belong to a group. Maybe these kids are feeling lonely and depressed? They must have had sex if they're lonely and depressed!
"The thing that gets me is pubertal development bit. These kids don't have sex drives when they take the pledges, of course, they're not going to have sex!"
Exactly! I was given a purity ring at age 12, for crying out loud, when was I ever going to have sex at that age? I barely knew what it was, much less did I have any sex drives at that time.
So did I ever have sex while wearing (or pledging to) that ring? No.
Is it because of the ring? Absolutely not.
Thanks for mentioning that pregnancy produces a large amounts of hormones just as any birth control / morning after pill. I don't understand why Laura Ingram thinks that one is natural and the other is not though. It's hormones. Unless they're the synthetic left-handed versions created in a lab, they're going to be used up in the body the same way, right?
I'd be surprised if you didn't have any split ends after that interview, Ingram was making a lot of petty distinctions, so much so that she never really seemed to focus on what you were really saying. Argh.
Oh, you were so doomed before you started with those people, Jessica. Her introduction of you as a member of Planned Parenthood etc. etc. was clearly intended to demonize you to conservative listeners before you started.
Raaaaaaaaaaaage........
that was truly infuriating to hear...
i know i for one just love being equated to candy on the street!
and the last caller... how do you go from saying "abstinence isn't shame based" to "i tell my daughter every day if she gives it away she's dirty"
how low does your iq have to be to not understand this:
girls are sick and tired of being told that their most important quality is their hymen. girls are sick and tired of having to choose between being a shameful whore or a pious virgin.
i was sick and tired of it when i was a teenager. my mom was like the last caller. and being told i was dirty for having sex sure as hell didn't help me make healthy decisions. i was afraid to talk to my mom about sex. no kid should be afraid to talk to their parents, no kid should fear that kind of horrible judgment from their own parents!
i have a daughter now, and i certainly would never tell her that she's dirty or disgusting for the choices that she makes regarding her body. i wouldn't shortchange my daughter the way i was short changed by the shame based "education" i received.
honestly, i will never understand the way some people think. it just baffles me how someone could be so close minded and willfully stubborn as to not understand the simple and obvious message: girls are worth MORE then their sexuality.
seriously, jessica, how do you do it? it must be so frustrating to try to get through to these idiots... you are really an amazing woman!
I think that caller was so (willfully?) moronic that she thought Jessica had referred to abstinence education as "shameful" rather than "shame-based"--in which case her anecdote about teaching her daughter to postpone sex would at least make some sense. But yeah... way to listen and understand, callers.
You know what, I lost my virginity in high school, when I was 17. I had no intention of "saving myself for marriage"; and I was blessed with parents who had better things to worry about than whether I had sex, who taught me about safe sex, contraception, and self-respect. Four years later, I can count the number of people I've *kissed* in my life, much less slept with, on one hand. Am I a piece of candy in the street? Am I a worthless slut? Please. It's like saying everyone who drinks is an alcoholic.
You know what, I'm 40 and I've long since stopped keeping count of my sex partners. How about we all just stop measuring a woman's worth by her sexual activity or lack thereof, period.
Fair enough. I didn't mean to imply that women who have more sex are less worthy, although I can see how it could be read that way. I just meant that because I've had sex doesn't make me immoral, used-up and gross.
Is there a transcript of this? Please let me know. Thank yoU!
I was almost crying with frustration as I listened to some of the callers on that show. Was anyone listening to a word you said, or understanding the basic concept of COMPREHENSIVE sex ed? Argh! The fact that the presenter didn't seem to understand the first thing about the morning after pill was just the final nail in the coffin.
The pro-abstinence movement's rhetoric that young people (particularly young women) are comparable to used goods really pisses me off.
It makes me wonder how many of the men in this movement spend good quality time with their daughters, enjoy and share their daughters' hopes, fears, interests, and dreams, AND continually tell their daughters that they are loved and respected.
My parents were of the vein that I should not have pre-marital sex. The only discussion about it was "No, No, and No." However, I rarely received praise or even an "I Love you" from either of them. It didn't matter that I was a 4.0 student, on several sports teams, did multiple chores throughout the house and lawn, etc. etc.
As I grew up, I experimented with sex. One of the reasons I became involved with my partner is that he made me feel validated, empowered, and most of all LOVED. He was the first person in my life to tell me every single day that he loved me.
I've made my decisions. I have since decided that abstinence is the best course of action for ME. I regret some of the things I have done in my past, for personal reasons. But I don't regret having loved my partner and having been loved by him.
So on this one, the pro-abstinence movement needs to put up or shut up. They Stop telling young women that they are shameful people based on their sex lives (or lack thereof). Love and acceptance are basic human needs, I think we can all agree. So of course if parents compare their daughters to trash, the young women will naturally go elsewhere to find love. This doesn't make them wrong, it makes them human.
Thanks.
Oh goodness.
-these callers are just emphasizing Jessica's point...that young women's sexual status is ALL that matters.
-with the Morning After pill...Ms. Ingraham makes it sound like young women pop the Morning After pill like sweettarts!
Also, I realize that The Purity Myth is about young women's sexuality, but where is the conversation about young men's sexuality? If the people that called in are holding their daughters to this standard, what about their sons?
also, its all MALE callers, until Beth.
Ultimately, what really skeeves me out is not the just that those callers (and, good God, Laura herself) were so terrified by the idea of 'promiscuity' but that they totally missed the point: women are more than their sexuality. You hurt them by treating them like all that matters their intact hymen.
Yeah, I'm horrified by the views on birth control, the scare tactics, the hateful justifications, the shaming. But mostly I think that women and girls are people, and it makes me deeply sad that there are folks out there more worried about their purity than their personhood.
Way to stay classy, Jessica.
Jessica, I really enjoy the way you articulate your points, but I'm sorry but I could only listen to the first 7 minutes of that. Laura Ingraham was making my skin crawl and instead of running the risk of throwing my computer against the wall, I decided to stop listening and just trust that you did a great job. I'm buying your book asap, probably after finals are done so I don't distract myself.
I just got to the part where the caller talks about how he saved sex for marriage but his wife didn't, and she felt bad about it. Gee, do you think maybe it's because YOU MADE HER FEEL BAD?!?!?!?!
This is completely circular logic -- they tell women that they'll feel horrible if they have premarital sex, and hey, it's clearly true because the second they do it, someone's there to let them know just how badly they screwed up. Maybe women wouldn't be "depressed" after premarital sex if they weren't exposed to a chorus of disapproval.
This whole things makes me grrr stabby!
What about that crap about "when you have a daughter, you just want to protect her?"
1. Because sex is outside of marriage is inherently something to be feared??
2. Because only girls need protection?
3. Because the only way to protect your daughter is to protect her hymen??
Rage.
My goodness, I was getting shaky rage from listening to the show host and the callers, None of them not ONE talked to you, they talked about you they talked AT you. But not TO you. They also jumped to conclusions, and really proved your point for you, a lot of people, unfortunately many of them in seats of power, view women who are not virgins as garbage.
And I want to say that even if a woman is a sex working HIV positive drug addict. SHE ISN'T GARBAGE. NO HUMAN BEING IS GARBAGE. No woman, virgin, average, or above average sexually, is garbage. We are not NOT used up spit covered candy. We are not defined by a piece of skin between our legs, and we are human beings with BRAINS who can make decisions for ourselves!
And on top of all that I don't think that anyone here thinks that teaching abstinance as an OPTION is evil (ignorance to other options is evil though! grr)! I was so sad Jessica kept trying to make the point about it being a choice but they kept making arguments like she was stomping on their beliefs.
Jessica you are amazing, if theres ever a Feministing event in the DC area i want buy you a drink for being so damn rad.
I wish I could be like Jessica and so many of the amazing women here, but when I get into situations like this I cant keep my composure, I lose my voice and get sad. So I guess I will have to let my art talk for me. Im working on a comic that has 2 feminist main characters in it, and you can bet your boots they will be inspired by the amazing people here.
I can't get how you can just listen to them go on and completely screw up what you say. I'm not good like that. I listen patiently, but then after that first caller I would have snapped and yelled,
"No! You're not listening to me! None of you are listening to what I have to say. You're in your heads saying, 'She wants girls to become sluts!' and thinking about what you're going to say to put me down next. Give me five minutes without any interruptions, and let me tell you what I have to say!"
Talk shows are so manipulative like that. It's not just this woman either. They say what they want, and then after you've gotten one sentence in, they go to a caller to further interrupt you. They refuse to let the guest do any of the speaking for themselves.
After awhile, I'd just forget the interview and spend the rest of my time pointing out all the little tricks being pulled to scam the viewers.
I guess I'm a brat like that.
you know, i've listened to this a couple times now. regarding the guy who said his wife felt bad on their wedding night because she was not a virgin
(while HE was having a special moment, btw, not because he was spending that intimate time with HER just that she was his first.)
-- I did not hear him say that he comforted her and said it was ok and nothing to be ashamed of and it was special for them BOTH! I DID hear him say that "they should feel bad that" they're not sharing in something special like HE was. poor woman. hope she gets out of that...
You don't have to hope that the woman will get out of her marriage with that jerk, because she doesn't exist.
I thought the comment Ingraham made about preserving ideals was interesting. Idealistic world versus Realistic world - is that what this argument can be whittled down to?
Those of us who believe in comprehensive sex education (including abstinence) are acting on opinions based in REALITY. We know that just because everyone only learns about abstinence and STDs does not mean everybody is going to "wait until marriage." Wait until marriage? Who says I need to get married? That's an institution I never plan to be a part of. If I'm never going to marry, how long, exactly, am I expected to "not give it away" for? Should I just "hold on to it" forever?
I'm sorry, but honestly? I didn't feel any different after I had sex for the first time. I was actually kind of disappointed that it wasn't the cathartic experience everyone's always building it up to be.
I thought the comment Ingraham made about preserving ideals was interesting. Idealistic world versus Realistic world - is that what this argument can be whittled down to?
Those of us who believe in comprehensive sex education (including abstinence) are acting on opinions based in REALITY. We know that just because everyone only learns about abstinence and STDs does not mean everybody is going to "wait until marriage." Wait until marriage? Who says I need to get married? That's an institution I never plan to be a part of. If I'm never going to marry, how long, exactly, am I expected to "not give it away" for? Should I just "hold on to it" forever?
I'm sorry, but honestly? I didn't feel any different after I had sex for the first time. I was actually kind of disappointed that it wasn't the cathartic experience everyone's always building it up to be.
I thought the comment Ingraham made about preserving ideals was interesting. Idealistic world versus Realistic world - is that what this argument can be whittled down to?
Those of us who believe in comprehensive sex education (including abstinence) are acting on opinions based in REALITY. We know that just because everyone only learns about abstinence and STDs does not mean everybody is going to "wait until marriage." Wait until marriage? Who says I need to get married? That's an institution I never plan to be a part of. If I'm never going to marry, how long, exactly, am I expected to "not give it away" for? Should I just "hold on to it" forever?
I'm sorry, but honestly? I didn't feel any different after I had sex for the first time. I was actually kind of disappointed that it wasn't the cathartic experience everyone's always building it up to be.
Since pretty much everything else has been covered, can I point out that she listed kids' knowing there's such a thing as being trans as proof of how our culture "celebrates promiscuity"?
I do not understand how this person's mind works. No, wait, that's a lie, I do:
YOU APATHETIC WHORE! YOU'RE JUST LIKE ALL THE REST OF THEM! HAVE YOU SEEN THAT ROCKY HORROR BUSINESS? HAVE YOU SEEN WHAT THOSE PEOPLE DO? FOR FUCK'S SAKE, THINK OF THE CHILDREN! I'M IN THE TRENCHES HERE! I HAVE A DAUGHTER! I CANNOT BAKE HER ENOUGH APPLE PIE TO OFFSET THIS CONSTANT FUCKING ASSAULT ON AMERICAN VALUES! GOD DAMN IT!
Transcript, anybody?
I went about halfway through, but I had to turn it off. It was pissing me off too much. The host exaggerates so much, and it does nothing to help her argument.
Jessica I think you really held your own and you unfortunately hseemed to have to reiterate a lot of points that these people just don't seem to get.
Laura's comments on birth control really irked me. I was on it for 8 years and got pregnant really soon after choosing to stop it so we could conceive. Of course pregnancy is a natural thing our bodies can do, but it also puts your body through A LOT as I have found out the hard way. I hate how pro lifers and those against birth control act like pregnancy is the most awesomenest thing in the world and completely ignore the physical toll it takes on you.
I can't watch this right now, but I'm sure I'll cringe a lot. Calling the Black Panthers an "elite group" and Megan McCain fat doesn't scream credibility to me.
Wow. Laura Ingraham really sounds like she hates what she does for a living. And I can't say I blame her.
I think it's great you went on this show and could be cool, collected, and armed with great information. I could only listen until the second caller -- it was too much for me. I was struck by the fact that men were the first ones to call.
Even though Ingraham was hostile and using you for her own purposes, you never know who might be really listening to the program. Maybe a conservative parent is driving in the car with the kids in the backseat, and your message got through to them. Great job!
God, I wanted to bust my own eardrums listening to that rubbish. The host was so intent on blasting you and exalting the virtues of purity that SHE MISSED THE WHOLE POINT.
Women and girls are worth more than their hymens.
My mother and father told me all the time that sex was wrong and that I should be married before I did it. My father also called me fat bitch, stupid whore, dumbass. Anything to put me down. Gee, can you guess what happened next? I slept around and made horrible choices. Pregnancy and STD scares, you name it. These conservatives are so concerned with virginity, they forget that the way they treat their children has a direct impact on sexual choices.
If my parents had been more concerned with building me up as a person, my sexual choices wouldn't have been a result of starving for love or attention. Parents should have open, loving relationships with their children. Give them correct information and encourage them to value themselves. That way when they choose to have sex, it'll be when they're ready.
Anyway, Jessica you are a better woman than me. I'd have blown my top. You stayed calm and classy, and in the end she proved your point for you.
yo, Jessica, you could say "right" a little less... I mean, it's a really friendly filler word, but I wonder how it would work if you said "wrong" instead, since it would be more accurate in the case of ingraham... haha...
one thing i do wonder, on a more serious note, is why you didn't bring up that abstinence-only sex-ed isn't any more effective at preventing pre-marital sex than comprehensive sex-ed and doesn't educate the majority, who will be sexually active, in terms of safer sex practices... ugh...
As far as the NIH goes, next time you're on one of these things, check this out (the study was conducted under the auspices of the national institute of child health and human development, a part of the nih):
http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(05)00055-8/pdf&ei=RWX5SYWzFIaMtgewsOmSAw&usg=AFQjCNGMj1P-QwemSa-99bNQJm6rICfw2Q
for something more harvard-y than nih-y, here's one on the inefficacy of pledging... oh, well...
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/123/1/e110.pdf
but, hey, whatever... numbers, you know, um... whatever... really, you laid it out nicely; that her stats were parsed by abstinence-only advocates... i wonder, though, if this is a particular strategy - to not come back and argue about numbers and citations, but simply state your point and move forward... because i've seen a lot of it in the media... i guess poring over data doesn't really sell your point to the public or something.
overall, though, Jessica, way to be cool under pressure, get your ideas out there and, well, considering that you were so measured and composed in your responses, i think, contrary to the opinions of some, that you may have really changed some minds on this one. way to go.
Jessica, you are amazing. I have no idea how you stay so calm and cool and collected with these crazies. On behalf of women everywhere, thank you!
the whole thing just ticked me the fuck off, but i really lost it when she had the GALL to play "i'm a slave 4 u" at the end.
i can't believe that such a large part of the american right falls prey to this sensationalist, anecdote-based argumentation. i'm embarrassed for them.