Hillary delivers repro rights smackdown
Take that! (I know Ann linked to this in the WFR, but I just had to post the full vid.)
Via Shakesville, who has the transcript.
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Oh! Yes yes yes! I love her poise, and the way she didn't shy away from the truth by going around the question like so many politicians do.
Oh this just made my day!
beautifull, although i don't really agree that the anti-choice movement "should be free" to export their views... ew. plus i don't deeply respect him.
I have long suspected that "I deeply respect you and your right to your beliefs," is actually politician-ese for "I think you're a fucking moron and your views are fucking scary."
Thanks for the morning boost!
This was a great moment, but I really wish that Clinton would drop the "rare" from her oft repeated "safe, legal, and rare" line.
The facts are that birth control will fail, women will be raped, and 15 year olds will be stupid, even in a world where everyone has easy access to good birth control. We should strive for a culture where abortion is seen as an easy choice in these cases, and in such a culture abortion will not be particularly rare.
Yes, it's better if an unplanned pregnancy can be avoided than aborted, but even in the best case scenarios there will remain a large number of unplanned pregnancies, a large number of pregnancies that carry risks to the mother's health, and a large number of pregnancies where financial or family situations change during the course of the pregnancy in a way that makes continuing the pregnancy folly. The "rare" part of the "safe, legal, and rare" formulation is rooted in the false and destructive notion that there's something wrong with getting an abortion. There isn't, and anything that even hints to a woman who has an unplanned pregnancy or who for other reasons finds herself needing or wanting an abortion that the abortion option is one to be avoided should be condemned.
I completely agree with what you've said, but I also think her use of the term "rare" was to emphasize the fact that it makes no sense for the very people that are so against abortion to also be against access to contraception, which decreases abortion rates.
Basically, I feel that her use of the word "rare" is appealing to their cause (less abortion), but it doesn't change what she's fighting for, which is safe and legal abortion.
I think that may well be the connotation she intends, but if Clinton thinks she can choose her words outside the context of the American abortion debate, she's wrong. Whenever the media reports on politicians saying abortion should be rare, it's always in the context of a widespread and false conventional wisdom that abortion is, even if a valid choice, morally problematic. If you call for abortion to be rare without specifically affirming that abortion is morally neutral then you're unwittingly reinforcing people's beliefs that abortion poses a moral dilemma.
Abortion is rarely a tragedy; rather it's the avoidance or mitigation of tragedy. Even the abortion of a wanted pregnancy is an effort to avoid greater tragedy. We need politicians with the courage to say that abortion is a good choice for lots of woman and that there's almost never, if ever, any moral dilemma associated with any abortion a woman isn't coerced into getting. Women should be given all the tools they can be given to safely avoid unwanted pregnancy, but beyond that it doesn't matter at all whether abortion is rare.
There are many situations where women aren't ready for any of a number of reasons to have children, or where abortion is delayed until later in pregnancy when it's more dangerous because women who really don't want children are wrestling with the belief that getting an abortion makes them bad, or where health complications unique to a specific pregnancy that wouldn't be likely to be repeated in a subsequent pregnancy are present. Abortion should ideally be more strongly encouraged and even praised than it is in situations like these--though, of course, a decision not to abort should always be given full support--and calling for abortion to be "rare" doesn't help to get there.
I don't know of anyone who *liked* getting an abortion. I know of women being very glad it was done, relieved, comfortable with the decision. I know of women being sad, scared, nervous about the physiological aspect. However, I don't know of anyone who had enjoyed it and wouldn't have preferred to avoid the situation is possible.
Is there a disservice done to women by acknowledging the breadth of reasons getting an abortion isn't great? If I said, "If I could go back in time, and avoid getting pregnant so I'd never have to get the abortion in the first place, I would"? does that compromise the acceptance of abortion practices?
I do think abortion should be rare, and I don't think that position should imply an immoral connotation with abortion.
abortion, although morally shouldn't be judged, is not a good thing. it can be necessary, it should be accessible to everyone, but abortion usually is a very hard decision to women. usually it affects our lives, our health, our bodies, our feelings, our hormones, in many, many ways. that's why it should be rare, and that's why we need sex education and accessible birth control in the first place.
So does pregnancy. So does giving birth.
Women deserve autonomy over their own bodies. Men deserve no say in the matter. So says this radical feminist.
I dunno... I think abortion is never a positive "good," at least in the sense that even when it's necessary, it would be preferable not to have it be necessary. What's ludicrous is the way that people twist it to make the medical procedure ITSELF into something that's problematic. It's kind of like calling heart surgery morally problematic. No one would ever say "heart surgery is immoral" because to do so would be absurd. Certainly, no one WANTS to get heart surgery, and some people opt for less invasive procedures, and sometimes heart surgery does become necessary due to less-than-ideal actions undertaken by the person undergoing surgery, etc. But it's just a medical procedure, and properly viewed as such. I think we can all pretty much agree that, in an ideal world, no one would ever need heart surgery. But that's not a reason to look down our noses at it. I think it's perfectly fair and reasonable to look at abortion the same way. It's an unpleasant medical procedure that ideally you'd never have to deal with, but should the time come that you do, you should have access to safe, legal abortion (heart surgery). There's nothing wrong or inherently stigmatizing about saying you wish it weren't necessary, though. It's just that the anti-choice lobby twists it that way -- but why let them control the dialogue? Just because they try to twist words doesn't mean we shouldn't reclaim them.
In the world your describing, Robert, abortions would be rare. "Rare" here is not well defined (without a standard of comparison, rare is meaningless, but in Clinton's case, she pretty clearly means "rare compared with the present rate").
In a world where everyone has great access to birth control, and is well informed on how to use it, from a young age, there will be a lot fewer unplanned pregnancies, and (thus) a lot fewer abortions. They would be (comparitively) rare in such a world.
I disagree. It is an admirable goal for abortion to be rare - and here's why:
if abortion is rare, that means unplanned pregnancy rates are low and women & men have access to the birth control they need.
if abortion is rare, more women & men are using prevention like birth control and less women are faced with the necessity of undergoing a surgical procedure and a potentially intense emotional decision/process.
if abortion is rare, more women & men have access to cheap affordable birth control and don't need to pay for an expensive surgical procedure like abortion.
rare is a good goal, it means we have succeeded in reducing the number of unplanned pregnancies.
I loved it and her, and the only thing more clear than her eloquence was her passion.
I agree though on 'rare' - allowing it in the discourse is a little bit of an admission that abortion is problematic - except it isn't problematic.
While this is true as a politician she needs to be able to work to cater to both sides to a certain extent. While she may not necessarily believe that abortion should be rare (or maybe she does)in saying that she will be more likely to gain the support of those that do oppose her. Hoping they think well she wants to reduce the number of abortions, well that's good at least, maybe she in onto something. Of course that is a super optimistic outlook because after all it's not always really about the abortion, it's the control of women's health and lives but that would be my thoughts as to why she wants it to be rare, or at least says she does.
(Hope that all made sense)
Abortion is problematic. It shows how we are failing our nation. We are not giving women, young and old, proper access to information, contraceptives and medical care. High abortion rates only highlight our problems.
Who doesn't wish abortion was rare? In an "ideal" society women wouldn't suffer unwanted pregnancy.
The bottom line is that if you get an abortion, it's because you got pregnant and -- for whatever reason -- you don't want to be pregnant. There are plenty of steps that could be taken to prevent unwanted pregnancies (sex education, access to contraceptives, etc.) decreasing the number of abortions.
I would love it if abortion were rare, and that doesn't mean that there's something wrong with abortion, it just means that there's something better for women.
Another reason for wanting it to be rare: it is a medical procedure, with risks. Higher risks than the birth control that would prevent it.
Not that I want to make it sound like abortion is something to be scared of - if woman needs one, the individual risk is small, and a woman should feel safe.
But looking at the big public-health picture: overall, reducing abortions by reducing the need for abortions is better for women's health.
Abortion IS problematic though.
When pro-choice activists say they want abortion to be rare, what they're ultimately saying is that they wanted unintended pregnancies to be rare. Besides unexpected health problems, people have abortions because of an unwanted, unexpected pregnancy.
Her use of the word 'rare' is mainly focused on reproductive health care as a whole. It means to provide unbiased information on sex and health, while also providing information on and easy access to contraception. All within the goal of less unintended pregnancies.
Less unintended pregnancies, less abortions.
Yeah! Go Hillary! I knew there was a reason I liked her. I'm glad she's still fighting for reproductive rights, despite her centrist rhetoric. I'm so glad to have a pro-choice president as well. I fell much safer, as compared to the Bush admin.
I am amazed at her ability to convey passion and conviction while staying completely composed and respectful. That, IMO, is a rare politician.
I love Hillary. Sometimes, I wish she could have been my President. She knows how to throw down.
I don't disagree with her use of the word "rare". Ideally, if all the women in the world had unlimited access to healthcare, including reproductive healthcare, abortion would become much less prevalent than it is today. I don't know of anyone who has had an abortion and enjoyed it, so while the service must unfortunately remain for failed contraception, rapes, and the host of other causes that result in an unplanned pregnancy, I think the goal is to reduce the occurrence of abortion down to as few as possible. Plus, I think it is also important to remind the public that reproductive healthcare providers are not throwing around abortions 24/7 like they have been told to believe.
I don't know of anyone who has had an abortion and enjoyed it
Same here. I know that the physical and mental trauma is played up by the same anti-abortion activists who make it 100 times worse by obstructing clinic access and making women unable to have honest conversations about terminating a pregnancy. However, if the reproductive justice movement wants to be based in honesty, we have to admit (even if it's not convenient for our rhetoric) that the decision to get an abortion and the process of having one can both be fraught and painful. Not always, not uniformly so, but it can be and it would be great to have fewer women having to make that choice in the first place. If we can reorganize our society so that fewer women are in the situation where they have to decide whether to get an abortion or not, we'll have made huge strides in other areas as well--like promoting economic justice and universal health care and reducing the rape rate.
This just made my day. It's so awesome having an administration who actually cares about women's health and reproductive rights, including women around the world! I especially loved her reference to 8 years of an administration that undid the good work... :)
Maybe I'm not hearing the video correctly, but it seems as though they are referring to Clinton as "gentleman" and I know this is formal language that they probably haven't changed in countless years blah blah blah. But we've had a female Secretary of State for a long time now, don't you think we could update the parliamentary language to reflect that women are in positions of power?
it sounded like, and according to the transcript, he said "I yield to the distinguished gentleman." How strange and sad!
I skipped a breath when I heard that...I was like, wtf? They have a female sec. of state, and I don't think they're blind to or unaware of her sex...To me it seems that if this country is to move forward in sex/gender equality, the people who are responsible for making decisions for us should be using the correct terminology.
I noticed that too! I'm pretty sure that the first time he did say gentlewoman (which is the correct form) but the second time he said gentleman. I was wondering if it was a not-so-subtle dig after her response that he could just cover by saying "oops, not what I meant." But maybe I'm reading too much into it.
I think it was "gentlewoman" but it was muffled. And at the end I assumed what sounded like "gentleman" was either me mishearing it or him referring to the man who asked the question.
I believe that the "gentleman" to whom he was referring was the chairman of the committee, despite the hand gesture he made towards Secretary Clinton when he was making the reference, but I am not absolutely certain.
I deeply respect Hilary for managing to not say something like: "With all dur respect, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about"
I thought she handled that really well.
"safe, legal and rare" is a great way to put it.
She said that, but in acceptable political debate terms. lol
Re: safe, legal, and rare.
Sure, people will always need abortions. Fifteen-year-olds will always be dumb, birth control will fail, women will become pregnant through rape. But who doesn't want to keep fifteen-year-olds from getting pregnant, ensure that birth control works as often as possible, and keep women from being raped? Therein lies the "rare" part. It's a rhetorical phrase I've heard elsewhere, and it doesn't refer to making anyone maintain an unwanted pregnancy. It simply means preventing unwanted pregnancies before the decision about ending it needs to be made.
That was AWESOME.
I cried. I laughed (at how dumbfounded the Republican looked at her eloquence and precision).
I didn't mind "rare". I think all she means is that by increasing access to information, by providing contraceptives and medical care, the rates of abortion will go down -- because there will not be so many unplanned pregnancies-- and isn't that what anti-choice people want?
I wanted to throw this book out there for those of you who may be interested in reading more about family planning/reproductive rights in a global context. I am just about to finish it and it is excellent.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Means-of-Reproduction/Michelle-Goldberg/e/9781594202087
AAAAAAAH!!!!! "Distinguished Gentleman"? Seriously?
They really need to reexamine the language they use in hearings. :\
My Hillary crush just got that much bigger. Although I do think Obama is doing a pretty decent job so far, I'm still glad I voted for her. *dreamy sigh*...
I also don't have a problem with "rare." I know that the handful of times I've had scares (which are mostly irrational, given that I'm *religious* about taking my pills) that, while knowing RU-486 was available should I need it, I would certainly MUCH prefer just not to have to deal with it at all. There's nothing hypocritical about that, and nothing about it that's an admission of anything more than that, all other things being equal, I'd prefer that I NOT need a painful and expensive medical procedure. Not that it shouldn't be there for me. Not that there's anything wrong with getting it when I need it. Just that I'd prefer not to need it -- just like I'd prefer not to need to have cavities filled, or like I'd prefer not to need to go to the bathroom in the middle of a movie.
I agree with using the term rare. Like others here I believe this is used to accent our country's need for better access to information and safe abortions. I was not able to afford a surgical abortion and had to take RU-486. It was a wanted pregnancy, but there were complications early on and my only choice was to abort. The abortion pill did not work correctly and I suffered internal bleeding, almost died, and had to get a surgical abortion anyway. We desperately need universal health care so every woman who needs or choices abortion can afford the safest option.
i love you hillary clinton
BAD. ASS.
Hell yes!More women in politics!
Thats why I voted for her in the primary! Unh! Sucka!!!
DITTO to the.empress, jnbklyn, Gopher, and KiKi0716, lol!!
I love Hillary, and am still so glad I voted for her too! I'm glad Obama is doing such a good job overall, but man, Hillary would have ROCKED it for women's rights in the White House.
I got butterflies in my stomach listening to her. She is an amazing woman. I'm so glad that, even though she isn't president, she is serving in our government in such a high capacity.
I politically swooned.
I'm almost happier that she isn't the president. Yes, I definitely supported her in her run for the presidency, but I think that as Sec. of State she's able to concentrate and specialize in the area of women's [reproductive] rights, which she may not be able to focus on if president.
woot woot! Tell it like it is, lady! I reposted this on myspace.
She's nicer than I'd be. Anytime I see a white dude talking about the evils of abortion, I want to throw up.
I have said it before and will probably have to say it again, if these people were really pro LIFE, they'd consider women as humans, and their LIVES a worthwhile thing to consider.
Quality (and equality) for those already here, and a good, stable beginning for those to arrive. I can't imagine a worse child abuse than bringing an unwanted and unloved child into this world and treating him or her poorly because someone was against abortion.
I want to watch that again!
It was incredibly eloquent, she cited her own personal experience by giving examples of the suffering caused by poor family planning, she stated her goals clearly, she made a big note how the policies under her husband's administration lowered teen pregnancy, and how the Bush administration denied reproductive services and got the opposite result. She gave great ethos, pathos and logos to her argument in under three minutes!
For better or worse, it is always necessary to acknowledge the other sides point of view in a democracy. The social conservatives often don't realize this, not only do they have misguided beliefs, but they feel they must force these beliefs onto the rest of us no matter the cost, even if that means telling lies to our children, setting up fake places of healing, or increasing the suffering of those they claim to want to help.
Calling Hillary Clinton "gentleman" was certainly bizarre. They likely ran into that issue a long time ago and simple 'decided' than "gentleMAN" was gender neutral enough. Either way I'm sure it was specific to her position within that particular procedure, because they couldn't think of a better title.
Wish she were my president!
HELL. YES.
Jessica, you should post the 'Margaret Sanger' conversation portion too. I watched that live while I was getting ready for class and couldnt help but cheer as well.
Me Love Hillary. :)