After thinking about this a bit, I think I agree with Professor Foxy that you were assaulted. At first I wondered, but what if he was drunk too? And then I thought, and you were doing it willingly..

But none of that matters in the end. He knew what your weakness was, he pushed and pushed and pushed you to put yourself in a vulnerable position, and he was the one who exploited your state, knowing full well that you don't drink because that vulnerability is something you want to avoid.

Feel bad for the poor girlfriend. Can you imagine being emotionally attached to a dick like that? None of this is your fault, and you're brave for actually asking about this in such a public way.

My thoughts and prayers are with you, and I am sure your situation will get better. What an awful ordeal.

I agree that this young woman was assaulted and taken advantage of. Coercing someone to drink against their will and then taking advantage of the situation for personal or sexual gain is assault.

His girlfriend probably only got HIS side of the story, there's a really good chance that the story she heard was that Time got her boyfriend drunk and took advantage of him. It's always amazing how men (and women too, I suppose) will warp a story so they don't get in trouble while they throw the other party under the bus.

I agree that this young woman was assaulted and taken advantage of. Coercing someone to drink against their will and then taking advantage of the situation for personal or sexual gain is assault.

His girlfriend probably only got HIS side of the story, there's a really good chance that the story she heard was that Time got her boyfriend drunk and took advantage of him. It's always amazing how men (and women too, I suppose) will warp a story so they don't get in trouble while they throw the other party under the bus.

I pretty much agree with Prof. Foxy; he's at best an complete asshole and at worst a rapist. I'm curious why there was no response to this part:

"the "friend" comes over and begs me to take a pregnancy test. when i tell him to fuck off, he offers to _pay_ for it, as if that would make a difference. drama, right?"

It might be a good idea for her to take a pregnancy test (although you may not want to tell him about it), unless she's on some sort of birth control that she didn't mention. Not knowing won't fix anything, it'll just make it harder to deal with later.

I was contacted by a former boyfriend a few months back and, after reminiscing with him over a period of weeks, I began to remember things about my college days I had forgotten -- as in, recovered memories of a sexual assault by another student. (I was raped while unconscious from alcohol.) These memories debilitated me.

I sought help from the local sexual assault crisis center and have entered counseling with a very compassionate therapist with whom I have established a good rapport.

Even after a few weeks, I feel so much better. I was plagued with obsessive thoughts and couldn't sleep. I was weeping a lot. Once I began to unburden myself of thoughts and feelings, and get some perspective on things, I felt much better.

It is quite typical for women to be blamed for the circumstances of their own assault. It was one of the reasons I never told anyone about what had happened.

Please don't wait decades like I did to get help. Find a therapist or counselor who can be an ally and get some support for what you're going through right now.

In my case, I was able to get counseling at my local YWCA. (Am currently unemployed and uninsured.) The first six sessions are free; after that a very reasonable sliding scale kicks in. It did take a while to get an appointment, and during that time, I did a lot of reading, and took advantage of online support groups.

I wish you the very best. You are not alone.

It's not like he was helpless, receiving oral sex against his will. He had to have permitted it, and there were plenty of ways he could have refused it and not taken advantage of you.

Granted he was probably drunk as well, but if you are going to coerce/pressure someone into drinking, you should be held accountable for your actions even while drunk.

You're way off base. Consenting to drinking is NOT consenting to sex. Much like wearing a short skirt is not consenting to sex, and kissing is not consenting to sex. And if she was too drunk to remember what happened, she was too drunk to consent.

What part of she was too drunk to know what was going on did you miss?

She says when the GF came over she had no idea about half the things the GF was talking about. That doesn't sound like someone who was all there and able to consent, does it?

Check your slut-shaming at the door.

Feministing, are you SERIOUSLY letting these rape-apologizing assholes post here? This site is beyond ridiculous, and while I understand that "dialouge" is one of the goals of this site, victim blaming, and playing the "she was not raped, she just drank herself unconscious, and unconscious people can totally consent, har har" is ridiculously disrespectful and makes it clear that you cater to a decidedly unfeminist, and unwomanist audience. I know that your goal is to reach people who might not yet be out feminists or womanists, but the fact that there isn't even ONE link to a fem 101 article on why this is RAPE and not just a stupid slut drinking herself into trouble means you don't actually give a shit about the cause you purport to be a part of.

This just put the final nail in the coffin for why I absolutely can't read your circus of a website anymore. Thanks for what you've done, but you're an irrelevant joke now, and I can't deal with that.

As for all you rape apologizing assholes, I'm glad to be reminded once again for why I hate people and have given up on the human race.

Firstly, the person who did this was not a stranger but you're too busy jumping on your rape apologist horse to care about reading properly.

And no, taking any substance does not mean you consent to sex in that altered state of mind. There are reasons why we have laws against having sex with people who are under the influence and it's because their grip on events is shaky and they do not have the information or rational to consent.

But, even if this was not something that could be prosecuted in a court of law that does not make the OP's feelings of assault any less valid. She was quite clearly taken advantage of and has been subjected to any number of slut-shaming techniques when it seems clear that people are picking and choosing who they demonise in this situation.

News flash! Drunk men can be rapists. They can take advantage of people when drunk. The fact that they are drunk doesn't make their actions any less rape.

It's a legal grey area. If this case came to court it would be almost impossible to prosecute due to everyone drinking. Doesn't make it any less an act of rape or assult.

I think, perhaps, feministing should consider not allowing comments on Ask Foxy posts (at least when they are about highly sensitive topics). Although many of the comments can be helpful, the letter writers shouldn't have to be subjected to the kind of abuse that some commenters unleash. Some topics should only be handled with careful sensitivity, and too many people allow the anonimity of the internet to give them an excuse to be cruel.

I'm horrified by how so many commentators want to gloss over this woman's feelings to tell her that they know much better than her how she should feel and how she wasn't raped or assaulted.

Just because something wouldn't fit a legal definition or wouldn't be prosecutable doesn't make it any less rape, or invalidate the OP's feelings on the subject. The legal system has to be there to protect the majority and there will be cases were it doesn’t fit perfectly for everyone involved. This is one of them. It doesn’t make what happened any less awful for the OP or mean that she deserves any less help.

And yes, there is a lot of slut-shaming and “Oh she was drunk” going on in these threads and those people should read what they’ve written out loud to themselves to get a good idea of how awful they sound.

I went through something similar as a teenager, although in your case I see a much more deliberate attempt to put you in a situation where you were vulnerable than happened in mine.

What was incredibly helpful to me was to realize that regardless of how the guy in question experienced the night, or how the people around me viewed it, I felt incredibly violated and taken advantage of.

My case probably wouldn't hold up in court. I've never felt 100% that the guy should, say, spend 20 years in prison. That confused me for a long time. At some point I finally realized that regardless of how I rated how malicious/conscious his actions were, my experience, my emotions, and my need to heal didn't change.

Get some help. Get tested, both for pregnancy and STDs. Don't talk to this guy, and don't talk to his girlfriend. They are both going to try to manipulate you and convince you that what you experienced isn't real.

Good friends would have cut you off. Even just one good friend could have stepped in, taken you home and gotten you to bed by yourself. If your friends were there when this happened they have a personal interest in viewing it as consensual and your choice/fault in order not to think of themselves as bad people for not stepping in.

Ugh, this post hits close to home. I was in a very similar situation just last weekend. I went out with a clouple of friends that I thought I could trust, a guy and a girl. The other girl and I are real light-weights when it comes to drinking. Neither one of us had ever even been drunk before that night.

I know that I drank too much and that was a mistake. By the end of the evening, I was blacking out and the things I was doing seemed almost like an out-of-body experience, like I was observing someone else doing them. Anyways, he tried to have sex with me. I'm very conflicted over whether this was rape or not. On the one hand, I'm pretty sure I said yes at some point. On the other hand, I was clearly not in a state to consciously conscent and he was a lot less drunk that either I or my friend. Plus, after I'd managed to push him off and gone to sleep, I woke up to him trying to finger me,which is clearly not conscentual.

It's just very hard when you yourself don't know what to call it.

I'm troubled by a lot of the comments here as well. It appears that a lot of the commenters are trying to determine, like jurors, whether or not sexual assault occurred according to some sort of quasi-legal definition.

It doesn't sound like this young woman is seeking any sort of criminal or civil redress for what happened. The reason she wrote is that she's having a lot of difficulty in dealing with the aftermath of an encounter that at best sounds exploitative and at worst sounds coerced.

Even if this incident might not meet any legal definition of sexual assault, she still has to deal with the FEELINGS associated with this type of encounter. She's dealing with fallout from friends and acquaintances who are making her responsible for the actions of others. She's feeling ashamed and angry for having been pushed into drinking and the fallout from that. She's troubled by obsessive thoughts. It's affecting her relationships and her level of functioning.

Pointing out any areas of her perceived culpability isn't going to make her feel BETTER about this situation. If anything, it may delay her getting help and support.

Please, step back from trying to make judgments about what "really" happened and try to support this young woman. She's hurting. She deserves our compassion.

Her friends should have stepped in, and I agree that she needs to find new friends as the ones that she seems to currently have arent very supportive of her.

I feel that this situation falls in the gray area, legally wise, and I would hope that there are laws written to protect both men and women from this in the future.

I love Feministing, but I agree that victim blaming comments should not be allowed, especially in this sort of a post. And frankly, the use of words such as 'tits' and 'fucking' make me cringe when talking about a sexual assault story. People need to be more respectful.

Gimme a fu**ing break. "Who's to say he enjoyed" pushing alcohol on her and then getting a blow job? Are you for real?

If this were a hypothetical situation presented in an ethics class,I think the was she/wasn't she debate would be more valid.

However, this is a real person who feels like she's been violated. And if she feels like she was assaulted then she needs to proceeds like it. Maybe she needs to start with making a report to the police department and talking with an officer to see if something criminal did take place. (assuming she lives in an area with helpful authorities)

Otherwise, she needs to join a support group or seek counseling. She needs to begin healing. And most importantly, she needs new friends!! :-)

I definitely have to agree with Professor Foxy - you were definitely sexually assaulted. He bullied you into drinking - and once drunk he coerced you into sexual activity.

By any reasonable definition - and many legal ones - that's sexual assault.

And his girlfriend and your friends are assholes for blaming you for his rapist conduct.

Nice moment of belittling my reply to you there. I do like how you try to make yourself sound more intelligent by trying to frame this as a discussion rather than you laying into a woman for being drunk and assaulted.

I have only your words to judge you on, and yes, you do come off like a rape apologist. And I find your ideas of how conscious some can be of their decisions while under the influence worry as it seems you don’t draw the line anywhere but at unconscious.

Why shouldn’t it be “Don’t have sex with people under the influence” because that’s taking responsibility, isn’t it?

You know, the funny thing is that I've heard a lot of people argue on here that exposing your genitals to someone without their permission is sexual assault. Drunk or not, flashing your tits to an unsuspecting person would definitely qualify.

The rape apologism in this comment thread makes me sick to my stomach. People can be so thoughtless and cruel.

My best wishes to you, Time. I hope you can find a safer space to work through the aftermath of his betrayal (both at the time AND the subsequent lying to make you look like the bad guy) than is being provided by your current friends and by some of the comment thread here.

This sex column is turning Saturday into derisive feminist trigger topic day. Totally ruins my weekend productivity checking back here to see where the conversation goes. I think there is some genuine feminist conversation going on with some sensitivity to the realities of sexual violation, but it's the obviously anti-feminist trolls that bother me. This isn't a place for those people, and there should be an increased presence of moderation on these posts. I can't imagine how the OP feels right now (although, I actually can to some degree, though less in the sense of getting it from anonymous internet people about my specific situation). Is there a policy about feministing moderation procedures? What is the policy on trolls?

I'm in the "this was assault" camp. However, I think it is important to remember that Prof Foxy said that legal definitions are irrelevant to this conversation. In my state, marital rape was legal in one form up until a couple of years ago, so legal definitions do not define what is experienced as assault. This isn't a trial. We're trying to help someone that is obviously suffering from sexual violation deal. I've had to get used to the fact that the vast majority of people that have raped people will never get that "sex offender" stamp by the state, so legal has little to do with it.

These "was I raped" questions are damn hard to deal with. I admire feministing's attempt to tackle some of the most sensitive issues facing feminism in the world today, but the internet is a scary place for dialogue in some ways (see above).

What's also difficult about these conversation is about how crucial context can be, as was seen in the situation with the guy's GF. Her reaction was loaded with issues in and of itself. This is the story that I struggled with as a teen, as it goes to show how people can twist feminist logic to their own agenda.

When I was 14, a 20yo guy came into my life. I was sexually confused at the time, alienated from my peers and had long been gaining the validation one seeks from peers from adults in my life. I trusted them and wanted their attention more than anything. He came into my life like a mentor, but ended up using that trust to get me to do sexual things with him. He didn't define it as a relationship. It was educational and therapeutic. Things obviously affected me very badly, being manipulated and used in this way, and we stopped communicating. This gives an idea of his personality and my situation.

At 15, he came back into my life and pressured me to tell my parents I was staying at a friends house and come to an overnight party with him and some other people. After some badgering I agreed. I said I wasn't drinking and he promised not to drink a lot. Not what happened. He got SCREAMING drunk. He insisted on buying me some vodka, the only thing I'd ever drunk before, but I was afraid to drink and thus stayed sober. He got sick, and me and another girl (two other girls there, both his age) helped him to bed. He begged me to stay and talk to him and I did. He started physically pushing and badgering me to go down on him. I said no, for the first time to anyone, but was ignored. He kept on and eventually I didn't feel like I had a choice. The ensuing scenario became humiliating and violent. When he came back later in the night, I let him do what he wanted with me, do what he asked me to do, in large part because I wanted a little of my power back from the awful thing that had just happened.

In the morning I didn't want to believe what had happened so I didn't say anything. I thought to myself, he was drunk, didn't know what he was doing. Maybe it was my fault because I was sober and should have been able to stop it. I was in shock and pain. He took me home. I get an email from him a few days later where he says I raped him. Claims he can't remember what happened, and because I was sober, it was my fault it happened and it was done against his will.

This destroyed me, because it put me in the position of either it is my fault and I'm a rapist, or he's a manipulative asshole and he's a rapist. This helped me begin to dispell the delusions I was laboring under. Suffering, I told a couple cousins, who helped me accept that it was rape on several levels (statutory if nothing else) and I went to the police. Nothing came of it of course, as nothing ever comes of these things, but it accomplished keeping him out of my life in the future.

I was told by a mutual friend later that he told people he was raped over that summer, but neglects to tell the details of who they were or how old they were.

He was drunk (later entered treatment for alcoholism) and I was sober. But obviously, several aspects of that situation made him the guilty party. I was underage and he was the adult in the situation. He had taken advantage of me before. He intimidated me. However, he twisted the feminist logic of inebriation negating consent to negate his responsibility in the situation. This is douchebag behavior.

So, I think we need to have conversations on the nuances of consent and sexual assault and the emotional experience of it. Trying to fit a complex violation like sexual assault into a legal box (such as the role of alcohol in legal consent) is extremely problematic when trying to discuss the emotional impact of it. The legal conversation is a whole different can of worms. What I would like to see is the discussion of the nuances of consent without denying the traumatic experiences of the victim or the application of logical "formulas" across a broad swath of situations.

ib4 "what about the menz!?!?!?"

It appears my posts have started to disappear. Well, before I give up on this place for good (yes, yes, I'm sure that wouldn't be distressing to many of you), could I ask why?

Prof. Foxy, you probably shouldn't have titled this post the way you did. Her only real question was " how do i move on with my life? how do i stop thinking about this?"

The title invites heated discussion about what constitutes rape/assault. Which would be good if Time's story was a hypothetical.

To everyone posting: please think about Time and her original questions before commenting.

i think we can all pretty much agree that rape is bad. but sometimes, especially since we grew up in a victim blaming culture it can be confusing for some people (even me sometimes) to figure out what constitutes as rape or who is the victim (or maybe if there are two victims)... but i think this blog exists to hold these kind of conversations, and maybe deleting people's comments or swearing never to come back to the blog isn't the best way to have these conversations and educate each other. i came in the conversation too late to read the comments that were deleted but i seriously think that we can be having more mature arguments, on both sides.

The comment I was replying to disappeared while I was composing my reply!

Indeed the writer asked "was it assault?" but it was in the context of describing how she's felt in the past few months of dealing with the fallout from this incident. I think if you'll re-read what she wrote, you'll see that she wasn't really asking for a legal opinion. She was describing self-questioning, self-doubt, obsessive thoughts and a lot of emotional turmoil from this incident. These were questions that were running through her own mind as she has been attempting to process what has happened.

I think commenters in this thread have gotten distracted by the "was it assault" question and are missing the point of both the writer's question and Prof. Foxy's reply.

In answering in the affirmative to the "assault" question, Prof. Foxy was offering affirmation and support. This is what counselors do in order to establish rapport with clients. Prof. Foxy wasn't offering a legal opinion that anyone else had to dispute.

Here's a thought experiment: if everyone offering comments in this thread decided unanimously that what the writer described was an assault by this man, do you think the writer's feelings and obsessive thoughts would just magically go away? That she'd suddenly feel better? That everything with her social circle would suddenly be fine?

Myself and others here are trying to focus on what's really going on with this young woman and give her support for her feelings and guide her towards counseling, not provide a legal answer to a question that was asked rhetorically.

i think that questioning whether or not this is rape is completely ridiculous. the fact of the matter is, the writer feels confusion and is unable to lead a healthy sex life after this has taken place. and who are we to say how she should feel about the incident? clearly it has affected her negatively so let's focus on providing support rather than being judgmental.

i see some posters who are pushing for legal action, but that is not always the best next step. it is important for anyone who is reporting a sexual assault case to know that the police can be hostile to survivors and very demeaning (not to say that ALL are, but the likelihood is relatively high)...and then everything that follows that report can be emotionally trying as well. survivors who decide to go this route should be prepared to have their sexual history scrutinized, to tell their story a zillion times in front of strangers and subsequently have it ripped apart, and to possibly not get the justice that they deserve after all is said and done.

that being said, i think there are other options for survivors who can't (or won't) go the legal route...counseling is a great option. joining a support group. doing writing, dancing, singing, painting, knitting (something artsy or crafty) some sex toy stores have workshops like "sex for survivors" which are great. becoming part of some anti-violence campaign (was very healing for me) etc.

i think you are very brave for posting your story on a public site...thank you for sharing it with us and i am sorry that there are posters who find it more important to argue over how they think you should feel about this situation than actually trying to help you solve the issues that you presented. i hope that you can find peace within yourself and find support, love, and understanding from people around you. i went through a similar situation where all of our mutual friends decided to side with HIM. it was hard but i made it through and am happy that im not friends with those idiots anyways!

(and sorry for this novel of a post...)

It might be a good idea to ask ourselves how we'd feel if the genders were reversed. A man was pressured by a female friend to drink. He finally gave in, got drunk, exposed himself, performed oral sex on the woman, and can't remember anything else. Was he assaulted?

We need to make sure the answer is the same regardless of the gender of the parties involved.

General suggestion for Feministing moderators: When you delete posts, you should put something like "post deleted" rather than just having it disappear. Its really confusing to read the comments thread when replies are left but the post they were replying to is gone. Or else, you should delete all the replies as well.

Wow. This is an awful situation and you have terrible friends. I'm sorry that people feel the need to always blame the other woman. The cheating wasn't you fault -- you cheated because you were very drunk, and you were drunk because your "friend" coerced you into drinking.

This was almost certainly assault. I can think of exactly one scenario in which this might not be assault, and it sounds pretty unlikely. You certainly feel violated, and that's affecting your life. Try counseling or therapy if you can afford it. If you can't, you might be able to find some place that offers it free or very cheap. Find some friends -- not the ones who are victim-blaming you -- and talk to them about it.

Take a pregnancy test unless you were already on birth control, and get an STI screening as well. You don't remember everything you did and you should play it safe.

I experienced a date rape a couple of years ago and before I even realized that I had been raped, I was experiencing some sexual side-effects from the trauma. Sex was very painful. Luckily, my boyfriend (who is not my rapist) understood that I was experiencing pain and we worked through it together. After about 6 months (and right around the time that I started to realize that I had, indeed, been raped) the pain-with-penetration suddenly, almost magically went away. I don't know why or how, and I don't know if coming to terms with what had happened changed how my body felt about sex, or if my boyfriend's love and understanding (and slowing down or pulling back when I said "ow") changed how my body felt about sex... but the physical side-effects from my assault did eventually go away and I did eventually stop reacting to everything like I was re-living the experience.

There is hope. You just need a really good support system and to be really open and honest with your sex partner (even if that's just yourself) about your physical limitations. I think that realizing that not all people we have sex with are at all like the person who assaulted us is a big part of sexual healing.

Im sorry this happened to you. I think you need to stand up for yourself, and not let this GIRLFRIEND and guy tell YOU what happened to you.
You told the guy you couldnt control yourself. He obviously wanted to get you in this mind-set. Im also concerned that he wanted you to take a pregnancy test. He remembers parts of the night that you do not, this is just really F*cked up. I could only imagine how vulnerable and humiliated you feel. It seems like everyone knows what happened except you. I think you should stay strong, tell that guy to fuck off, tell him that HE raped YOU and he KNOWS it. None of this is your fault, nothing. You know he knows it no matter how much he tries to lie to himself. In the future, I wouldnt reccommend drinking around people you dont completely trust, or around guys who want you to lose control. You deserve more than that kind of negative attention.

I can't believe my comment was deleted, and many of the other thoughtful, non-troll ones that were simply asking questions and critiquing the "Yes it was assault" response. I was very careful in my comment to be clear that I don't think it was TIME's fault (not victim-blaming), I was just questioning the malicious intent of the guy and addressing the gray area of consent while intoxicated.

And as another poster has said, you were wrong to title this: "Was I assaulted?" if you didn't want some analysis of the topic (besides those that agree with you, that is).

The message I'm getting from this is that feminists must always blame the man (which is a horrible message to send). I'm hearing that only men are capable of committing rape, and questioning this= victim-blaming.

This is kind of a gray area I think... you were drinking and people make bad decisions when they're drunk. :|

That said, your friends suck. If I was out with my friends, and one of them got drunk and was flashing people, I'd take her home. Friends look out for each other. The guy is also a douchebag, but you know that.

it sickens me how much all of you are debating whether or not a woman was raped while she is who knows where reading your debate! do you have any idea how much your commments - positive and negative - impact a victim/survivor of sexual violence? do you have any idea of how much your advice - positive and negative - impacts a victim/survivor of sexual violence? but most of all, i cannot believe the nerve of people who would actually comment after her post, arguing with people who affirm her assault, and BLAME THIS WOMAN for her and all the world to see...

listen to, support, and affirm her. who the hell are you people?

I think comments on this specific post should be disabled. No one on Feministing cares about this poor woman, they just want to fight with each other.

I think "Is this assault" is the wrong question to ask.

The right question is "Why would you coerce someone into drinking?"

I cannot think of a single answer that does not involve malicious intent. Even hardcore partyers don't think that if one person doesn't drink the party will be ruined. Sure, drinking is fun, but if I gave that reason to a friend, and s/he still said no, I would take the no. If the guy couldn't take no for an answer on the alcohol, it is likely because he had an agenda.

I'm glad you wrote in to Prof Foxy. Something similar happened to me years ago with a bartender and I have lived with guilt and shame ever since. I know some would call what happened to me an assault, and I know others would not. I just know I felt like shit then and I should have sought help a long time ago for it.

I think deleting my post was out of line. I am not a rape apologist so I don't know why mine got deleted. I was bringing up the issues of personal responsibility and "friends" being horrible to you by not stopping that before it happened.
I also mentioned a counselor. Apparently that's not welcome here? I'm an active member of Feministing, not a fucking troll.

Time,

Assuming you can even stomach most of these comments I want to say that it is irrelevant, completely and totally irrelevant whether or not legally this was rape, whether he could be held legally responsible, or the policy implications of alcohol and rape.

I hope you don't spend more than two seconds right now thinking or listening to those conversations. Sometimes people sit behind their computer screens and ponder things without realizing that actual human beings are involved and are hurting.

It sounds like that it feels like sexual assault to you in that you're experiencing some of the symptoms that other rape survivors experience. In this moment, what is important is providing you with the help and support you need to feel okay again. Period.

Please ignore the academic and ethical debates we're having here and go talk to someone. It will help. Promise.

I think you're right in that we (and Time) can't really tell if what happened to her was assault. And in some ways that makes it worse. He was drunk, so was she, no one was capable of consenting or making aware decisions, there's no way to tell who did what to whom and how the other person felt about it at the time. All that's left is how she feels about it NOW, and I think the really important thing is to focus on *that* as valid.

We CAN tell, though, that the 'friend' who pressured her to drink and the 'friends' who are shaming her are all complete assholes.

I cant really comment on the assault bc I dont know what happened but it bothers me that people are speculating about this guy and saying he forced her to drink so he could have sex with her.

my usual disclaimer when I comment on issues like this, which I state to show I have an academic/research based understanding of sexual offenders and sexual assaults:

1)I worked at a Probation and Parole Office and interacted with sexual offenders, as well as was tasked with reviewing their offender files for use in evaluating the effectiveness of the Department of Corrections polygraph program. I probably reviewed about 80 offenders files in depth.

2) I also was a research assistant at my University on a epidemiological study of sexual assaults in my city. I read over 800 police reports and 1400 sexual assault dyads.

The guys behavior is classic sexual offender. He is manipulative to the highest degree and was basically able to pull off the highest achievement of manipulation: he got the victim to blame herself.

He was also able to convince his girlfriend that even though he pressured Time into drinking and he was a willing participant, he was the victim.

The dude is a snake in human form.

Further that, his use of alcohol was to his advantage. He wanted to have sex and used alcohol to facilitate his desires.

He got everything he wanted.

Of course the guy is an asshole for pressuring her to drink. But that doesnt mean he had an "agenda" to maker her drink so he could have sex with her. Lets for a moment take gender out of the equation..if my SO came home and told me he cheated on me bc this girl was "badgering" him to drink all nite, and he gave in so he would not seem "boring" and that all he remembers is taking his shirt off for her and then giving her oral sex..well I would say I could nto know if it was consensual or not..but I do know even though the girl was a jerk for pressuring him, he barely knew her so why give into her pressuring him???

Re: the idea that it was HIS fault she got drunk, and that her friends should not let her do things she'll regret

This is an issue that I struggle with. On the one hand- I try to assertively express my agency and power. I am a grown-ass woman, and I make my own choices about what happens in my life. I don't need anyone else to take care of me or make my decisions for me.

And yet on the other hand, there are always circumstances that we can't control, and other people who act upon us, and these things are obviously not our responsibility or our fault.

But when it comes to our actions while drunk? Where does this issue fall between these two ends of the spectrum? Is it up to other people to prevent us from doing things that they know we will regret? Sure it's nice of them if they stop us, but is it their responsibility? And what if everyone else is drunk too? Can I just count on the fact that someone else will protect me from making bad decisions?

I am NOT talking about actions that other people make upon me, e.g., if I am unconscious, or if I am awake and passively allow something to happen, I have no question that this is not my fault. I am talking about actions that I myself initiate.

I personally think that things I do while drunk are my responsibility. However, I think we can still be compassionate and supportive of people who make bad judgment calls. Especially if the person is not experienced with drinking, or didn't understand the situation they were in, etc. If someone makes a mistake, it doesn't mean they deserve what happens to them, or they "should have known" what would happen. They are still feeling pain and regret, and good friends should offer caring support for that. But, that doesn't mean that it has to be someone else's fault.

(This does not necessarily apply to Time's story, because as discussed before, we don't know how much she initiated things. But it could apply, depending on how things happened)

This is why I add my disclaimer...

The guy expresses classic sexual offender (SO) behaviors. Sexual offenders come in two basic (simplified) types, manipulative and physically forceful.

This guy appears to be completely manipulative. Some SO will manipulate their victims into a place where they can be violent, but not this one.

He manipulated Time, was able to get herself to blame herself, then was able to manipulate his GF into seeing him as the victim.

The use of polygraph examinations to supplement sex offender treatment and post conviction supervision was created for people like the instant offender.

He is living a life based on lies over lies and probably only views whats 'truthful' with whats 'self-serving'

Its the whole "like a pig" line of reasoning...

If it smells like a pig, looks like a pig, squeals like a pig... its most likely a pig.

If he acted like a florid sexual predator, he most likely is a sexual predator.

While I completely understand this feeling :"it sickens me how much all of you are debating whether or not a woman was raped while she is who knows where reading your debate!", I also wonder why this is posted online and why it's titled "Was I assaulted?" if people aren't expected to discuss it. Honestly, I commend the OP for putting her story out there, but you can't expect there to be one unanimous response from an open question. I don't think people should be unnecessarily hurtful, but there are people out there who would say she wasn't assaulted (I'm NOT one of them, but that's irrelevant), and there's no reason they shouldn't respond to a public debate. If this was intended to be discussed privately, it should have been kept private.

If dissenting opinions that are expressed politely are not welcome, you should probably just disable the comments.

I though Prf. Foxy's advice was right on.

I think the biggest issue here was the reaction of the OP's "friends" who blamed and further victimized OP after the fact. The whole situation reflects the unfair and sexist attitude in our culture that women are ultimately responsible for the sexual behavior of men, hence the OP becoming a "slut" in their eyes and the manipulative boy becoming the "victim." Total and utter bullshit.

I would recommend that in addition to seeking support from groups like RAIN the OP check out Alcoholics Anonymous. There she could find a group of people who understand alcohol addiction. It's easy for people who don't know what it's like to blame one for not have better self-control. Also, the OP would greatly benefit from a group that supported her commitment to sobriety and her health rather than her old "friends" who mocked her for it.

That's the problem I have with the "this was rape, pure and simple" crowd. That makes him a rapist. An assaulter. And we don't know enough about the situation to make that kind of statement. He sure seems like a douchebag, but that's all we can glean from her story.

She was too drunk to consent. But, possibly, so was he. It's a two way street--we can't say that if a woman is drunk she can't consent and also say that when a man is drunk he is not only capable of consent but of manipulation and sexual assault.

At the worst, he premeditated the whole thing and he's a rapist. At the best, they were both too drunk and they made a mistake. We all make them.

I think we need to be careful about making snap judgments about these things.

"or perhaps she raped him. But, I see no evidence that he raped her."

Where is the evidence that she raped him?

This column reminds me of a guy I know who, when we're all drinking, is always pressuring people to drink more, drink more. Not really understanding, for some reason, that a person who is pushing 30 probably has been around the drunkenness bend and has a good reason for not wanting to drink more (beyond "I'm afraid I'll get in trouble with my Mom" or something like that). Now that I think about it, he only pressures girls to drink more. Creepy. Think I'll call him out on it next time.

You're ignoring the repeated, unrelenting nature of how this woman was coerced into drinking. I can't tell from what she describes who actually initiated the sexual acts that occurred, so it's hard for me to make a definitive judgment on whether she was assaulted. It's possible that the guy really did end up feeling violated.

BUT: It's clear that the guy coerced her into drinking. Women are socialized to not say "no" to people, and when someone badgers you to the point where you know they won't shut up unless you give in, your giving in is not true consent. Coercing someone into drinking is ABSOLUTELY a violation, and the fact that this guy coerced her into drinking and then was involved in sex acts with her suggests pretty strongly that he got her to drink in order to get in her pants.

Look, what you and DisposableName are missing is that she DIDN'T consent to drinking. This guy repeatedly badgered her into it, to the point where drinking was probably the only way she could think of to shut him up. Coercion nullifies apparent consent.