Amazon Fail: Certain "adult" books (like mine) are de-ranked
We will have more to say on this tomorrow, but for now read Jezebel here and here; the LA Times; Meta Writer; Alterdestiny; Trish Wilson; Daily Kos; Smart Bitches, Trashy Books; Heather Corrina; and TONS of folks on Twitter.
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WTF?!
They're supposedly worried about offending their "entire" customer base, and yet when you type in "homosexuality" in the Amazon.com search bar, they parade out such literary hits as "Can Homosexuality be Healed?", "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality," and "You Don't Have to be Gay." I find that pretty damn offensive, thank you very much.
I don't care if it's not Friday: this calls for a general Feminist Fuck You to Amazon.com!
I'm not gay, nor do I ever read things about homosexuality, but I do buy a TON of things from Amazon. I'm contacting them to let them know that they've lost a customer. I think all straight customers should do the same. Gay rights are human rights.
Just out of curiousity, why did you feel the need to qualify that you aren't gay before standing up for gay rights? That's like saying "I support 'those people' but I will take every measure to make sure people don't think I'm one of them"
I think she stated it that way because the entire point of her comment was that regardless of sexual orientation, we should be bothered by this. I.e, she's not gay, and she is bothered by this, and even though the majority of feministing readings aren't gay, they should still be bothered by this.
Actually, I read it as going one step further: Amazon has presumably made these obscene ranking revisions presicely because it has certain views on what its customers--most likely hetero in majority--will be offended by and attracted to.
Amazon is trying to pander to the mythical mass of hetero dissaproval over pro-gay or even gay-neutral material.
So, the commenter above is letting them know that Amazon's cheap tricks aren't working with THIS hetero customer, anyway. Oh, and she'll/he'll take his/her hetero Amazon stipend and use it elsewhere...Barnes & Noble. com, here we come.
Also, this commenter's closing line is as true a phrase as ever was spoken: "Gay rights are human rights."
Yes. That is what I was trying to convey. I can see how saying, "I'm not gay" might be construed another way, but what I meant was, "Don't speak for me Amazon! This het does not think that books that have any gay theme is objectionable!"
I heard a while ago that Amazon gives money to conservative candidates and causes and B&N generally gives to liberal causes and candidates. It didn't make me stop buying from Amazon, but I think this will.
Amazon gives half their donated money to conservative causes and half to liberal ones. They are just trying to be fair.
So, they don't actually believe in anything? Why give any money at all? Makes no sense.
Tax breaks.
Actually, according to the Human Rights Campaign Buying for Equality Guide (2009) Amazon and B&N both were "in the green" (meaning HRC recommends supporting them) although B&N did have a higher score (100 vs. Amazon's 80).
I'm guessing and hoping that the 2010 edition will include this new information.
I have already been thinking of stopping purchasing from Amazon after I found out that they were not posting or counting the ratings from others and myself of a Tucker Max book if the ratings were negative. I fail to see how Brokeback mountain is more offensive than that piece of swill was. Censorship and books don't mix.
I preordered a bunch of CDs from Amazon a while ago that are set to ship at the end of the month. I just emailed them and informed them I'd be canceling my order and purchasing elsewhere if they don't rescind this policy immediately.
Update: Amazon is saying it was a glitch. I am not convinced.
Publisher's Weekly reports Amazon is now calling this the result of a "glitch," but I'm extremely skeptical given that others have reported hearing a very different story from customer service reps.
The RapeLay thing was bad enough. This is the straw that broke the camel's back, though.
I checked my friend's queer themed graphic novel, and it was still there with ratings...
Oh, also--this appears to be not be an issue with all Amazon incarnations. I've seen at least one Canadian user say she's not seeing the same results we're seeing in America. Anyone in the UK or elsewhere want to weight in?
I checked amazon.co.uk and amazon.de, and both had books deranked but it was uneven. Some but not all the ones deranked on amazon.com were, and I haven't been able to figure out if there are any deranked on either of those that weren't on amazon.com. It doesn't seem as if any of the German-language GLBT ones are, although if that's true it honestly depresses me that the first result for the search "homosexualität" is "Selbsttherapie von Homosexualität" which is exactly what it sounds like - but I honestly can't find any deranked German GLBT books through category searches, so it's possible this is actually legit.
Oh goddess, I just went back and the rating is gone (it says no one's reviewed it yet, but before there were stars...)
It's the rankings, not the ratings (unless those are affected, too) - the rankings show, for example:
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #398 in Books (See Bestsellers in Books)
Popular in these categories: (What's this?)
#6 in Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Fantasy > Contemporary
#9 in Books > Literature & Fiction > Genre Fiction > Horror
The affected books do not have this information.
Where exactly on the page do you look for that information? I've never paid attention to it before so I'm not sure how to check if its gone.
Jessica, I just searched "valenti" in Amazon books and your titles came up as the first four results. "He's a Stud" and "Purity Myth" both have rankings at the moment, (#19,674 and 7,258 respectively). I suspect they're going to fix this, but results will be uneven for a while. Never the less, I'll be watching closely and registering my disgust with this "policy" in the meantime.
He's A Stud/She's a Slut and Purity Myth don't seem to be affected, but Full Frontal Feminism and Yes Means Yes have both been deranked.
I think amazon.co.uk is affected - I haven't checked many books, but Full Frontal Feminism isn't appearing when you search for it under 'all departments', though He's A Stud is, for example. The results for a 'homosexuality' search are similar as those on amazon.com - Can Homosexuality be Healed? is the first result.
This makes me so upset. I just bought a book from Amazon this morning and now I wish I hadn't.
If you search "homosexuality" on Amazon, the first result that comes up is "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality," the next, "You Don't Have To Be Gay," followed by "Can Homosexuality Be Healed." Makes me sick.
This makes me so upset. I just bought a book from Amazon this morning and now I wish I hadn't.
If you search "homosexuality" on Amazon, the first result that comes up is "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality," the next, "You Don't Have To Be Gay," followed by "Can Homosexuality Be Healed." Makes me sick.
Mahadevine:
Yep, and they cut a book on preventing suicide among gay teens. I guess they don't see the link.
Everyone, here's an easy link to send them a quick piece of your mind on their "glitch":
http://bit.ly/amazoncomplain
This seems a likely theory: http://tehdely.livejournal.com/88823.html
It does not excuse anything and calls into question our whole concept of labeling something 'adult' vs. 'for children.' Not to mention the level of trust we place into systems as such.
I'll be curious to see how Amazon handles this entire situation.
I would be more inclined to believe the meta-troll theory if it weren't for multiple reports of the "adult" explanation coming from Amazon customer service reps.
Yeah, the documented responses from customer service kind of makes it impossible for them to backpedal and blame it on any glitches or outside attack.
To me this would just illustrate the inept customer service Amazon provides (which is why I tend to shop at places local to me).
Again, so far it's only a theory.
Interesting. I could easily see a customer service rep, going through a bunch of emails in a day, glancing at a complaint title, seeing the 'adult' flag, and dashing off the form e-mail before the breadth is realized.
At the same time, if that is the problem, and they don't fix the apparent ability for random idiots to remove sales rankings from books, it's just as bad. IMO, anyway.
I guess we'll see how Amazon play this one. I've already discovered that B&N online is usually close to Amazon pricing with better free shipping, and thanks to this thread, I've discovered wondrous places like Powell's as well, so that's a plus. :-)
It doesn't wash, though, because some authors have been reporting this since February. I don't think it's the trolls who attacked this weekend; I think the issue just reached critical mass among bloggers this weekend.
I find this wierd as I just ordered a teen lesbian romance novel from Amazon. In fact it was recommended to me by Amazon because I previously bought South of Nowhere on DVD from them.
The Your Recommendations page doesn't seem to be affected - it showed me a rec for a gay-themed book yesterday. I could only find the Kindle version of that book when I tried searching for it directly in the "Search All Departments" link, though (it seems the Kindle versions of these books haven't been deranked). I'd already put the hard copy of the book in my shopping cart from the Your Recommendations page, and the hard copy page showed up when I clicked the link in my cart.
All this inconsistency makes me think that someone has hacked the database. I don't know whether or not said troll is actually a fundamentalist anti-gay jerk or just someone who likes getting people all riled up.
I suspect the latter, because it makes no business sense for amazon to derank/remove from searches any of their merchandise. Their business model/brand image is to offer a huge, varied database to any and all comers, which includes both us and the "How to cure teh gayz" types. If they derank books and make them difficult to access, they lose revenue and customers. I doubt anyone but a troll would try to cost the company money.
I'm usually a big Amazon advocate, but was pretty appalled when I heard about this.
Just as a heads up to anybody else looking for a potential alternative to Amazon after this whole thing, Better World Books is a website I've used in the past and am considering switching completely to after this: http://www.betterworldbooks.com (apologies if this is not allowed). A portion of the funds go to fund world literacy, and shipping is free, though they don't have as big a selection as Amazon.
I did send a letter to Amazon customer service about this, we'll see what kind of a response I get. I've used Amazon quite a bit in the past, but am definitely willing to cancel my account.
Thanks for this suggestion. I just sent Amazon an email to close my account. Maybe they can PR their way out of some of the fire, but I don't want someone censoring my options on any level.
I'll be taking advantage of their Amazon's extensive site (if they reinstate fair search functions), but spending my money elsewhere!
This isn't only adult books, I believe Heather Has Two Mommies has been effected as well.
The homophobia here is obvious, but it also raises some serious concerns re: the future of digital censorship: Making Books Disappear
Pardon me for asking, but what does feminism have to do with gay rights? Oh, I know: it's a clever tactic to brainwash the gays into supporting you and making your image even shinier.
And stop reading so much into everything. The world doesn't revolve around you and your narrow-minded, self-centered views.
blah blah blah.
I'm sorry feministing, that was immature. I don't have much patience today.
/no more internet for me.
FWIW, that got a huge chuckle out of me, because what else CAN you say to that?
Thanks :)
@ Phil
Actually feminsim has quite a bit to do with gay rights, as both have to do with what the patriarchy has demanded and expected of genders and gender roles. Any person who deviates has to feel their wrath, such as what seems to be happening with Amazon.
...you are aware that "the gays" and "women" are not mutually exclusive categories, right?
Please read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality
Btw, I'm a feminist *and* queer! Amazing, innit?
They de-ranked "Hello Cruel World: 101 Alternatives to Suicide for Teens, Freaks and Other Outlaws" by Kate Bornstein. Or at least, they de-ranked the book version of it. The kindle version is still ranked.
Very strange.
Well, how many teenagers have kindles? Not many. Censoring a suicide prevention book less than a week after the suicide of 12 year old Carl Joseph Walker-Hoover...
classy.
They've also been de-ranking self-help books for survivors of sexual assault.
A few thoughts:
- This is fucking disgusting. Let me get that out of the way first before anyone puts words in my mouth.
That said:
- Amazon's technology is spotty at best. A lot of it is automated or outsourced to Mechanical Turk where the work gets done by people who aren't always paying attention.
And:
- Amazon's customer service is TERRIBLE.
So:
- I kind of suspect this 'glitch' has something to do with some disgruntled worker somewhere going on a rampage. It'd explain the hit-and-miss nature of it. As for customer service responses, it's a lot easier to blame technology than to blame people.
It's not just about books that we like to read "for fun" about homosexuality and feminism. As pointed out above, they're banning books on suicide that could be used to save lives.
Also, one of my friends who is a musicology major who's read a lot on feminist/queer musicology was talking about how this is not good for academia - restricting access to books that are essential for research in certain fields. Considering Amazon is often the go-to place for us poor students who want to avoid the high college-bookstore price tags, what Amazon is doing is harmful to studies in women's studies & queer studies, as well as the myriad related fields - not just musicology but also history, biology, philosophy, psychology, sociology, poli sci, English, art history, it goes on and on!!
So Amazon's defense so far is that it is worried about sexually explicit, and erotic material being turned up in searches.
Interesting then, how when I typed in "sex" in the search bar, I got things like "Tickle his Pickle", and "365 Sex Positions", and "BLOW him away: How to give him amazing orals sex" etc, and many with steamy, erotic pictures on the covers, INSTEAD of say more clinical things such as, "The Biology of Sex", or "The History of Sex" etc.
Yet, when I typed in "Homosexuality", I got a whole bunch of books with titles along the lines of "A Parent's Guid to Preventing Homosexuality", "Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality", and "Healing Homosexuality" etc.
Wow, Amazon! Just, WOW! Not very subtle. So as long as the sex is straight, anything goes, right?
So as long as the sex is straight, anything goes, right?
Apparently books about sexuality in relation to disability are also being deranked. So their thinking is still narrower than you're giving them credit for. Awesome! Only not.
Hm, its hard for me to tell without doing a before and after. But a search for "gay" sure brought up a lot of gay porn DVDs.
I never searched for "full frontal feminism" before. I tried it just now on amazon.com and amazon.co.uk, and in both cases it turned up as a search suggestion in the drop down menu, but on the UK site the book didn't show up at all, and on the US site it only showed up in Kindle form. I never tried it before, but does anyone know if the book would have appeared a week ago?
Its conceivably possible that this is a "glitch"-- if all of these books were classified similarly in some way and that part of their database got corrupted-- but I wonder who told customer service to explain about sexually explicit material.
I'm curious to see what Amazon has to say about this, but the whole thing sounds shady.
That is interesting. I typed in gay for book material, and got a lot of gay novels, and erotica. If it is a glitch, it is like you said, a very shady one though.
It seems like the results are changing in an ongoing way. For example I saw one blog post that said that the gay and lesbian bestseller list was empty, with only the picture of dorian gray left on the list and all the other slots empty. But when I followed their link, I saw a complete list of the top 25 gay and lesbian bestsellers. So either that blog writer was mistaken or amazon has already undone whatever it did right there.
They're trying to backpedal. I'm glad so many people diligently covered this before they tried to cover their tracks. I'm closing my account.
Yes Means Yes did appear on Saturday - I know because that's when I put it in my cart.
Wow, glitches that can write e-mails explaining that the deranking is due to their new adult policy (that now apparently never existed)! Apparently Amazon's server is a homophobic AI.
For those searching for an alternative to Amazon, I highly recommend Powell's Books (http://www.powells.com/). Powell's is a large, independent bookstore with a selection of books that is in many ways superior to Amazon's.
Here's a snippet from their mission statement: "We have a social responsibility to the community and our industry to fight censorship, promote literacy awareness, and encourage authors and their works. We are committed to reflecting the cultural, ethnic and experiential diversity of the larger community through our hiring practices and by making books and information available to people with special needs or interests."
OMG! this makes me so fucking upset/angry... i buy things on amazon like every day, mostly because used books are so cheap there, but WTF, like 90% of the shit i buy there is gay related.I'M SO WRITING THEM A COMPLAINT LETTER.
I wrote them a letter telling them that I sincerely hope this is a mistake that will be fixed soon, because it isn't just their gay customers who are going to be offended by this bit of censorship. I also pointed out that they should be able to make an optional safesearch function without deleting all ranking info.
My girlfriend has some Mormon in-laws. Several months ago, one was chez nous and we were discussing the gay marriage thing. He complained about gay rights groups posting boilerplate pans on Amazon of books that claimed homosexuality could be "cured."
So I wonder...could that "entire customer base" be, like Prop. 8, in large part Mormon?
They don't want "adult" products to show up? I searched for "anime" on there a few days ago & the third item that came up was a hentai DVD with two topless women on the cover.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_1_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=anime&sprefix=an
http://community.livejournal.com/brutal_honesty/3168992.html?style=mine
the plot thickens!
It isn't just books anymore folks. Playboy magazine no longer shows up in the overall rankings, either -- and I know that they are in the Top 1,000.
As soon as I find another site that sells DRM-free rock epics, I will be abandoning my Amazon account.
Sorry about that folks, troll has been banned!