We're all too aware of how (hetero)sexist and obnoxious Askmen.com could be, but this was too good (or should I say, bad) to not highlight. One of their many features is a "Top 10" list of advice, ranging from money problems to relationship tips - including their most recent Top 10: Subtle Ways to Tell Her She's Getting Fat.
That's right, how to deceive your partner into losing weight. This includes a slew of shame tactics, including:
- Buy her clothes that are too small (manipulation!)
- Serve her small portions of food (starvation!)
- Rig her chair to break under her (WHAT!)
Telling straight dudes that they should a. be turned off by their SO's weight gain to begin with and b. encouraging them to emotionally manipulate them and go as far to potentially injure them by rigging their fucking chair is reprehensible.
Send an email to the site and give them your "Top 10" of why they should take that feature down. And don't be subtle about it.
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Oh. My. God. I actually have nor words. Wait. I think I do.
Using manipulation to tell someone something, without discussing the problem directly? Cunning when men do it, conniving, shrew, and a typical woman's way of doing things when a woman does it.
You know, if these women were to break up with their boyfriends they will have immediately lost at least 160-200 pounds of condescending ass whole!
you know women are always getting accused of being manipulative and sneaky. While men are "honest straightforward" blokes.
Even if this is supposed to be a joke, its not funny just cruel. As a person who is very sensitive about her weight if my SO ever did ANY of this to me it would be grounds for dumping. THERE thats how your girlfriend can lose those extra 200 pounds! HAH
I think every man who has the gall to express disgust about his woman's weight to tohers should be required to post a naked picture of themselves....and they'd better look damn perfect.
hear hear
4. Stop being a dink and break up with her so she can date someone that isn't such a fucking schlub.
I hope those guys (who do that crap) get cheated and then dumped. Worthless pigs.
DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER. It's one thing to unkowingly sit on a bee. It's quite another to stick your hand in the hive.
In response I move that someone come up with a list that lists the
Top Ten Not-So-Subtle Ways to Tell a Man He's Being an Ass.
I think such articles illustrate why Shakespeare came up with the Nick Bottom Parody in Midsummer Nights Dream.
As a Man I'm offended. Whatever happened to good taste?
Yeah - the problem here is lack of taste. Nailed it!
Yikes.
Yes, The problem is taste.
Good Taste, as in decency. Not being humiliating or condescending to people. Both Men and Women deserve this. There should be a basic system of values that allows and respects the dignity of everyone. Common Sense, Good Taste, whatever you want to call it, its the bedrock upon which a reasoned enlightened existence, that supports and upholds the dignity of everyone, rests.
Articles like the one above are in poor taste because they degrade people. However you want to define it we need more good taste and less vulgarity in our public discourse. Vulgarity demeans, disenfranchises, and limits, in a sense it is one of the origins of an opressive mindset. Good taste raises the level of discourse, challenges opinions without being hostile, and leads people to think about why they hold the opinions they do.
I'm all for good taste.
that is absolutely disgusting.
"The beauty of yoga is that if you dress it up as a way to relieve stress, she may not realize that she’s being tricked into shedding a few pounds, and even if she does, you’ll end up with a happier, more self-confident girlfriend rather than a grumpy lard-ass."
"By making her ask for more food, you might succeed in shaming her into an acknowledgment of her recent weight gain, and hopefully to instigate a conversation about what she’s going to do about it."
are you fucking kidding me?!
oh...my....god........
I wrote about this today; I want to smash stuff (namely, the author of the handy guide).
AskMen shows so much contempt for women; it's disgusting.
I'm working on Top 10 Subtle and Not So Subtle Ways to Tell Thomas Foley His Dick is Too Tiny.
Send him a peanut?
This is DISGUSTING!
And while I'm busy being disgusted, some thoughts crossed my mind. Are all these "lard asses" dating waiters? Why are these men serving their girlfriends their food anyway? And why do the girls have to ASK them for more? Do they also have to ask to be excused to go to the bathroom? Are they not capable of getting up and getting more themselves? Or is it just that they're sooo fat that the mere idea of standing up and walking over to the kitchen for more food is too much exercise? Or they've collapsed in the sabotaged chair and have broken their tailbone so moving physically hurts them now?
Ugh.
You know, I bet the guys who plan to use these "tips" have far from perfect bodies themselves. I always thought one of the worst double standards was that women have to have great bodies but men can get away with pretty much anything short of being obese.
That reminds me of this season's "Hell's Kitchen," and Robert's continual mumbling screed of "that fat bitch," or "250 pounds of dead weight" in reference to Lacey. Does this man not own a mirror? He weighs close to 400 lbs! He was also forbidden to ride in the helicopter with the other men due to liability issues.
As for the article, I'm not going to click because I don't want to give them the page hits.
You know, I bet the guys who plan to use these "tips" have far from perfect bodies themselves. I always thought one of the worst double standards was that women have to have great bodies but men can get away with pretty much anything short of being obese.
The thing I don't get is why they think this is so clever. I've been on to boyfriends before that have done these very things--no woman is stupid enough to ever confuse a recommendation that she take exercise classes as anything other than an attempt to get her to lose weight.
And there's this one: "If she seems content staying at home eating donuts in her track pants, why not start taking her to places where she has no choice but to where a swimsuit? As she awkwardly looks around at all the slender bodies having a great time, she’ll more than likely vow to do something about her recent weight gain, especially if she knows she’ll be back there in the not-so-distant future."
Um, what? So you have to be slender to have a great time? Newsflash: I, a not-so-skinny girl, just came back from a fantastic week at the beach where I particularly enjoyed myself, in a bikini, thank you very much. In fact, one day on the beach, my current boyfriend and I shared some deliciously fattening beers. That was quite enjoyable.
Wait a second, you're trying to tell me that it's possible to enjoy yourself even if you're not thin? Well who woulda thunk it!
Also this "advice" is practically guaranteed to push women into comfort eating, or to give them an unhealthy relationship* with food where no problem existed before.
*As opposed to just an unhealthy relationship with a misogynistic prat with all the emotional maturity of a thirteen year old.
He also assumes that EVERYONE ELSE will be slender. Chances are, she'll see a lot of other people just like her, and she'll be happy, as she should be.
Actually it's not entirely true that every time they sign on for an exercise class that it's a subtle "hint" to loose weight. My slip-of-a-thing sister had a very sweet boyfriend who signed them up to yoga because she has no relaxation/coping skills and a stressful job as a waitress, and he thought she might like it, however the difference twixt him and some asshat, is that when she said "UGH! I HATE YOGA!" he returned the certificates and got them some time at a rock climbing gym.
But...he's sort of an anomaly.
Just... wow. I'm fat and I have fun. I admit, I don't wear bikinis, but heck, I'd wear a swimsuit around my fiance. He's the person who DOES make me feel comfortable about my body. Any guy who follows that advice doesn't deserve any girl. As my fiance tells me whenever I say I'm too fat to be pretty for him (usually whenever something in the media gets to me too much), "Don't loose weight for me. The only reason you should is if YOU want to for yourself. I love you the way you are." THAT'S a real man.
Wow, what a load of crap. First of all I'm not stupid, I'm pretty sure I (and most women) would figure out that my man was being a manipulative asshole pretty quickly if he did this stuff. Second, how the hell does this author think women don't realize they're gaining weight? When I gained weight I knew it. I had to buy new clothes and deal with all the stigma larger women get. And you know what? My boyfriend stuck with me through all of it and loves me just the same. If he had ever pulled this shit, I would have been gone real fast. He has also gained weight over the years but I don't care and I'd never pull this kind of crap either. Fuck you, Askmen.com.
I wasn't going to click the link but I've never visited that site so I did. The stomach in the photo could be mine. Shit, I'm fat. Thanks Askmen.com.
It seems to me that men who like this kind of crap are the kind of men who shouldn't be around women. If they loathe us that much they should just STFU and stick to themselves.
You're beautiful, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Though I'm not a lawsuit happy person, I hope if anyone is dumb enough to ACTUALLY sabotage his girlfriend's chair (#3) after reading this that the injured woman sues the crap out of askmen.com
Oh my god, y'all, that site is hysterical! There's one list that's something like the Top 10 ways to flirt with a woman sexually (yes, it really is something that retarded) and one of them (I'm not making this up) is to ask a woman if she's ovulating if she tells you that she vacuumed the house recently. Because women apparently vacuum the house when ovulating. (Apparently I rarely ever ovulate.)
Most of the others are just as stupid. I was rolling on the floor laughing.
So in other words the men that write for and take this site seriously are about as far removed from Planet Reality as you can get. Their methods do not compute with Earth logic.
I just had to read that one... The intro says that they recognize that it's hard to flirt without coming off as a perv. And then they basically give you a "Top Ten Ways to Sound Like a Perv" guide. Accuse her of being naughty? Make comments whenever she says big, juicy, hot, wet, etc? My stomach hurts from laughing.
Oh, good lord - if any guy used any of these on me, I'd be seriously disgusted. I feel like I need to wash out my brain with soap . . . just the thought of some sleazeball trying any of these lines on me in a bar or something . . . *shudder*
The woman in that picture is not even fat.
This article is so bull shit I can't even believe it.
I was literally shaking as I wrote on the feedback page.
This site is literally a model for everything that is wrong with the patriarchy we live in.
Exactly! She's just an ordinary model with a washboard stomach who has been dressed in a children's blouse*, who is arching her back (check the angle).
*For that fake "straining rolls" look.
This made me absofuckinglutely furious. I responded:
"Top 10 Reasons You're A Sexist Asshole:
10. You think it's a man's duty to control a woman's weight and, therefore, body.
9. You think coercion is an intricate part of a healthy relationship.
8. Likewise, you think manipulation within the context of a relationship is perfectly acceptable.
7. You would go so far as to rig a woman's chair, which would lead to inevitable shame and embarrassment on her part, just to send such an "important" message
6. You neglect to acknowledge that the human body ages and changes over time, sometimes leading to weight gain that is more difficult to combat than it was in your 20s. Hey, doesn't that happen to men, too?
5. You'd apparently rather be involved with women who are preoccupied with their size and shape than women with abundant self-confidence, intelligence, and passion.
4. You suggest that love or feelings are contingent upon physical appearance.
3.You believe that all women feel should be shamed into feeling guilty about their bodies, and that men should control such shaming.
2. ...Which also means you subscribe to heterosexist ideals of relationships, gender roles, and patriarchal male dominance.
1. You work for askmen.com, enough said.
Thanks for an enlightening look into the inner workings of patriarchy! Oh, and by the way- fuck you."
SO FURIOUS.
I was just going to say, If you write in "Top 10 of why they should take that feature down.", please post here as well.
Nice.
I'm banned from commenting on that site it seems. They won't let me. Don't know why. Oh well, they have plenty to read there already.
AskMen.com - because we all know that the best relationships are built on a strong foundation of lies, deceit, lack of communication and passive-aggressive emotional manipulation!
Seriously, whatever happened to just, y'know, sitting down and *talking* about any issues you might have?
Kelsey, over at Bitch Magazine, already covered this article more than a week ago.
http://bitchmagazine.org/post/10-ways-to-subtly-want-to-puke-all-over-askmencom
I actually laughed at because it was so bad.
Here's my reaction:
"Buy her clothes that are too small “Oh,” you might say, “I thought you were a size 8. Isn’t that what you were last summer?” The onus is now on her to do something about it".
- No, actually, the onus is on you to return the fucking shirt and stop trying to control her wardrobe. The only onus on her is to kick you out of her fucking house.
"Set out on your own weight loss plan
By referencing yourself in any plans to lose weight, you’re also subtly telling her that you’re not the only one who might benefit from a diet"
- way to be passive aggressive, baby. Wait. Lemme just get comfy on the couch with my popcorn while I watch your manly man bits straining and sweating and grunting. Ooooo, that's nice. Now lemme see ya eat those carrots. Awww, you're so cute!
"Serve her unsatisfactory portions
If you feel as though you’re starving yourself in the process, remember you can always go back for more when she’s not looking".
- Because you're an asshole with double standards, and you certainly don't want to feel her pain, just give her some
"Ask her to wear an old dress
Follow it up by telling her how good she looked in those days, and maybe she’ll make it her mission to get back to that size"
- Or maybe she'll make it her mission to shut you up by getting rid of you, since you clearly don't care about her.
Sabotage her chair
Sometimes as men we have to get downright nefarious to get what we want.
- Of course when women do that, we call the cops or sue them, because they're dangerously manipulative bitches, but in our case, we're not assholes, we're just exercising creative morality
PLEASE email that to them!
Funny, I think my current boyfriend must have read this article before it was even written! Impressive.
He's been making equally "subtle" comments and gestures to express to me how dissatisfied he is with my weight loss and consequently smaller boobies for about two years. My old bras tended to be lying around everywhere, I would find hilarious clippings of "Bust Plus" ads on the fridge, etc. A warning to all you ladies out there: if you do not respond "appropriately" to these helpful suggestions, the next step he might be forced to take to "assist" you is making bra-stuffing jokes in front of friends, and directly saying "your boobs are too small."
Finally, are you all ready for the punchline? Since we were together (from many years ago) he's gained a lot of weight, right in the beer belly and love handles, and I have never mentioned it or tried to make him feel bad about it in any way! LOL! or not.
Men don't need to read this bs to learn to be fucking assholes, I believe they just read it to convince themselves they're not reprehensible ogres, it's just the way the world is. Gotta love privilege. Sorry to rant, this crap just set me off today for some reason.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation, the "passive-aggressive belittle you in public" shtick sounds particularly wearing. You really don't have to put up with it.
If it were me, I would try confronting him directly by saying something like: "if you want me to risk my health and quite possibly my life by undergoing a risky, expensive surgical procedure which involves unnecessarily shoving bags of silicon into my perfectly healthy and normal breasts whilst under general anaesthetic, then by all means say so or forever hold your peace!" Either that or secretly loosen the screws in his chair legs... ;-)
Word.
Also, tell him that women lose sensitivity in their nipples when they get implants. That should shut him up.
Not that I recommend staying with him...
Considering my nipples aren't all that sensitive in the first place, that's a definite and eternal "HELL NO" from me. Not that I need implants - I'm a D cup naturally!
DTMFA
Wait, I have a better idea: secretly loosen the screws in his chair legs and *then* DTMFA!
what's DTMFA?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_Love#DTMFA_and_ITMFA
WORD.
Dump That Mother Fucker Already?
I'm not up on my acronyms but that's my best guess. It was either "already" or "anon."
Tell him you've just made an appointment for both of you for a plastic surgery clinical trial. Explain that your primary care physician told you about a new technique in its early testing stages that allows people with different blood types to "donate" fat, and has hooked you up with a cosmetic surgeon colleague. Your boyfriend can get rid of his unsightly spare tire and give you a new set of boobs in the process. Rehearse this speech and be very firm and serious when drilling him on his availability for the initial testing visit (note: this will only work if he would be squeamish about lipo).
That said, I consider this to be abusive. I'd get rid of him promptly. What if you guys gave birth to a daughter in the future? I wouldn't want him as a role model.
As a side note, I've never had anything that feministing.com references blocked at work. I've looked up vibrators, sex columns, and more. But Askmen.com was blocked for "sexually explicit content, gambling, or cult material".
Now I'm even more interested in looking it up when I get home - barf bag in hand.
Don't mention barf bags - I think they might make that no. 11.
Perhaps they meant "explicit sexist cult content" because their writing staff are uniformly misogynist!
As a straight male, I am absolutely
appalled by shit like this. My girlfriend
(who is a feminist, no less) is constantly
complaining about her weight, and no
matter how much I try to convince her that
I find her sexy and beautiful exactly the
way she is (she may be slightly overweight
by a strict clinical definition but damned
if I don't actually prefer her that way.)
If they really want to help men out, why
don't they make a Top 10 List about
helping your significant other feel good
about her body, no matter what size or
shape. Instead, they continue to
perpetuate the kind of nonsense that makes
pretty much every normal woman feel like
shit about herself.
Thank you. I wish my ex were more like you when I was very sick with ED.
Clearly, women struggling with body image hurts their relationships too. We get irritable. Sex hardly happens. Can you imagine trying to seduce someone who feels like a whale? It doesn't happen.
Men need to step up and invest in feminism too, because they have a lot to benefit from it.
These behaviors are not just sexist and mean-spirited, but verbally/emotionally abusive.
I've dated people of both genders, at different points in my life, who used similar shame tactics to control me.
In one case, I had gained weight from RECOVERING from an eating disorder, so I went from around a size 00 and 100 lbs to a 4/6 and 115 lbs within about a year. I was feeling pretty healthy, with the help of therapy. But my partner used "subtle tips," including, um, telling me I was eating too much (even in front of other people), commenting on how hot other women looked who were thinner than me, and other stuff mentioned on this hideous list. Guess what? This demolished my self-esteem and triggered the ED to come back! Imagine that.
That's inexcusable. You should be able to sue boyfriends for that kind of emotional abuse, most especially if it's caused you health problems.
That article may seem like despicable sexist manure, but it does have a point. If I had a partner who treated me like that, I suppose I really would realise that I had a lot of weight to lose: around 180lbs of abusive asshole.
I worry about some woman who might read this list might start becoming anxious about perfectly normal things on this list. I mean, my boyfriend does stuff like stroke or grab my 'love handles' (otherwise know as my hips, or waist, or whatever, and are things that are darn sexy), and he suggested that I should wear the dress that I wore on our first 'special' dinner when we went back to the restaurant (it doesn't fit anymore because I was actually bigger back than) or he's suggested that I start doing yoga again (I've been struggling with depression and this was in the context of discussing coping mechanisms). I mean, if I was insecure about my weight, or how he viewed it, this list would have me freaking out. I'm not, but I definitely agree with Bitch's assessment of the article. It's just plain mean-spirited.
Just wanted to add that people have a right to have an opinion about their sexual partner's level of attraction. I mean, if the weight gain or loss as been significant enough that it's radically altered your attraction to them, you should be able to voice it in an a sensitive and polite manner. (I've been on the end of watching significant weight gain in my partner and having to eventually say something about it). Bullshit like this article just reinforces the taboo against honest discussions regarding sexual attraction between couples.
excepting cases of serious illness or eating disorders (in which case you have bigger things to worry about), weight gain or loss, or any body transformation, is gradual. it's not a matter of waking up one morning, looking at your partner, and saying, 'oh you've crossed my line for attractiveness, sorry'. we have more agency over what kinds of bodies we find attractive than all that. if feminism has taught me anything, it's that what bodies we find 'attractive' is socially constructed. i'd be highly skeptical of anyone who claimed that they just weren't attracted anymore to a partner whose body changed (in a direction that just happens to be under-privileged/vilified by the partriarchy). it seems far more likely that they aren't 'attracted' to the social stigma that comes with dating or being partnered to a fat person (or disabled person, or a sick person, or an aging person, or anyone else whose body doesn't happen to conform to the conventional standards of attractiveness)
Ten Good Reasons to Dump the Douchebag
10. He feels he has the right to try to "subtly" change you using shaming, manipulation, and deceit.
9. See #10.
8. See #10.
7. See #10.
6. See #10.
5. See #10
4. See #10.
3. See #10.
2. See #10.
1. He goes to AskMen.com for dating advice.
Well said.
What I love about it is all the AskMen readers using the old "oh don't listen to the fatass ugly feminists they will never get a man anyway" card. Fucking hell. I'd much rather be an ugly fatass than somebody with a peanut for a brain who can't string together a decent intelligent argument and has to resort to those kinds of name-calling.
Oh, right. Those fat feminists can never get a man.
Wait... I'm 225 pounds of angry feminist, complete with unshaven legs, and I have a husband who thinks I'm the hottest thing going, and agrees with my anti-patriarchy ranting.
Not to worry, I'm sure they have some way to spin that.
hahha I like opheelia's! I thought I'd add my list, I hope it wasn't lame!
Here are my top 10 reasons you should fuck yourself and take this list down
1. It brainwashes men into rejecting weight gain in their partner
2. It supports the idea that fat is wrong, skinny is right
3. It OBJECTIFIES women.. what a crazy fucking notion??!
4. It supports the idea that men should have en element on control over their SO.
5. It supports the idea that you should get involved with what your SO does with her body.
6. It strengthens the barriers between men and women
7. It supports unequal relationships
8. It is dishonest
9. It offends women
10. It is poor journalism
May you have a horrible life and all 'your women' leave you for your fucked up mentality and lack of intelligence.
All your points are right on, but I particularly love the "It is poor journalism." Seriously- nothing makes men more uncomfortable than being told they suck at their jobs (except maybe that they suck in bed), and these asshats need to be made to feel uncomfortable.
Here's a delightful scenario:
Boy asking me out: "Would you like to go to the beach this weekend?"
Me: "Are you trying to tell me you think I'm fat?"
Boy: "WTF are you talking about? Why would I ask you to the beach if I didn't want to see you in a swimsuit?"
Me: "Are you trying to 'inspire' me by making me see all the hot thin people at the beach?"
Boy: "You know what, fuck this. You're a paranoid psychopath. Let's see other people."
Ergo, AskMen.com would even ruin a (hypothetical) relationship with a decent guy who is smart enough to NOT read AskMen.com.
I particularly *enjoyed* these lines: (/sarcasm)
"she may not realize that she’s being tricked into shedding a few pounds, and even if she does, you’ll end up with a happier, more self-confident girlfriend rather than a grumpy lard-ass."
--Really? Really?
"By making her ask for more food, you might succeed in shaming her into an acknowledgment of her recent weight gain,"
--Why would I want to shame someone I love?? This is absolutely horrifying.
Why would anyone want to shame or abuse somebody they love like this? It's horrible beyond words. I used to be severely anorexic, so I know what it's like to be ashamed of my body, and my weight. I'm embarrassed to say I even shed a tear or two over the abhorrent advice in that article because it's just so goddamn cruel. It's really upsetting. What the hell is wrong with the world?
Okay, all my outrage for the day is tapped out and it looks like you guys have got it covered anyway, so I'll just go for general befuddlement:
I really honestly just don't get what's up with this image of the world where lovers are in constant judgment over each other's bodies and such. Sure, our bodies are important, but not like this... I mean, for example, my own lover could be described in a number of ways physically: tallish, relatively young but also not so much a 'kid' any more, was obviously one of those stick-thin guys in high school but now ([some number of] years later) is just kind of pleasantly out of shape. A little weird looking but in a very charming sort of way. And I think he is totally unbelievably hot. I'm not sure why, really, since there are probably plenty of guys out there who technically fall under that description who I am not as much attracted to -- it might sound kind of cheesy, but there must be something about him as a person that I am so attracted to, not just him as a body. Now, I don't think that 'people' and 'bodies' should be considered mutually exclusive at all, but instead, our bodies serve as sort of a certain kind of interface that we have for interacting with one another, and lord do I love 'interacting' with him ;) So I guess what I don't understand is how it is that there are these guys out there getting involved with girls and then getting so crazy-neurotic about a few pounds here or there... and if it's really getting in the way, why not just have a mature conversation about it?? I just can't shake the feeling that these guys -- and really people in general who completely buy into this whole patriarchal/hetero-normative/blahblahhoweveryouwanttosayit paradigm -- I can't shake the feeling that they're just not even, like, doing the same thing that I'm doing here. I just can't wrap my head around it; to put it bluntly, the experience I have with sex, particularly sex within an actual relationship where you'd be commonly cooking dinner for each other and such, just does not include any possible space for standing at a critical distance and judging each other's bodies as mere, inert objects. And why in the world would you want to do that anyway? It's just no fun for anyone...
tl;dr -- Sex: Ur Doin It Wrong.
Note: what does include room for that critical distance is if 'girlfriend'='trophy for other people to look at and judge me by.' But again, come on people, not only is that obviously, uh, not-good on several different levels, but it's also just not fun at all. The fun part happens when you lose that critical distance. I promise.
Also, fwiw, turns out I look, body-wise, almost exactly like the picture that goes with #1 on the list, except the pale white vaguely irish looking version :P It feels pretty nice in here to me, so I'm just going to keep up with the "eating donuts in my track pants" or whatever other HORRIBLY TERRIBLE IMMORAL thing they think I must do to look like this. To AskMen - you guys have problems, please seek professional help.
I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment expressed by the commenters -- implementing this advice, aside from being instrumentally absurd, would be pretty cruel to put into practice.
I do wonder, however, about another situation is similar, but distinct. My girlfriend is dissatisfied with her body, and often seems to be upset that she isn't more thin. I've made it very clear to her that I think she is sexy and that she has nothing to worry about, but it doesn't seem to help ease her mind very much (that may be a failing of mine for not communicating this more effectively, of course). For HER benefit, I would like to try to get her to come to the gym with me a few times a week (though it would also benefit me by making it harder for me to slack off and stop working out, which I have been doing lately). We had been doing this last summer, and aside from keeping us both in better shape, we had a great time spending time together. How can I try to bring this about without upsetting her? I want to honestly say, "I think you're sexy/perfect/wonderful the way you are, and I don't think you should be so upset with your body. However, given that it does seem to be upsetting you, I'd like to do what I can to help you change, and one way to do this would be to come to the gym with me a few times a week". I don't see how to do this without her interpreting the above as "you're fat!". Any thoughts?
That is a tough situation and I think it would be even if your genders were different.
It all really depends on your relationship, to be perfectly honest. How able you are to be candid and express feelings and trust the good intentions in them. It depends on past conversations and history and if it was fun before.
I think that couples working out is the most fun thing ever! I think it's important to be healthy and active and that that has nothing to do with being fat or appearances.
I think it is so sad that the default feeling for allot of women is to be unhappy with their bodies, even if they are perfectly healthy and beautiful!
Some people can also recognize something they think they need to change, or maybe want to change, but aren't ready to make it happen. Someone recognizes that they want to loose weight, stop smoking, eat better, play video games less often... but actually DOING these things can sometimes be hard. New Years resolutions anyone?
my boyfriend did this. i KNOW he was well-intentioned, i really do, he's very 'solution-oriented' and he wanted to help me figure out how to feel happier about my body. but as someone who has an eating disorder, it nags in my head, and gives me an excuse to think to myself, 'see, even your boyfriend thinks you're a fatass.' when that isn't the case.
i'd say don't do it, because even though your girlfriend doesn't have an eating disorder, she could be developing one (i'm just saying that as a 'take no chances' thing, not that it's likely) and even if she is mentally healthy, it could be taken WAAAAAAAY the wrong way.
the best way i could think of you doing this is just going to the gym anyway by yourself and seeing if she ends up asking to come along, since i assume she knows she's able to if she felt like it.
Ok, out of morbid curiosity I looked at some other AskMen top 10 lists. I found this: http://ca.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-10-ways-to-flirt-with-a-woman-sexually.html
It must be some kind of joke. It just HAS to be...
My favorite:
"No.2 - Let her know you know
Want to know a secret about female sexuality that 99% of men don't know? Here it is: Many women feel compelled to vacuum their house when they're ovulating........ So, when a woman tells you she is vacuuming, say: "Vacuuming? Are you ovulating or something?" She’ll be stunned that you know this and wonder what else you know about female sexuality. Of course, if she doesn’t know what you mean, fill her in. Women love it when you teach them something new -- especially about themselves."
That's right guys. Women love shit like this.
Seriously, if a guy asked me if I was ovulating when I was vacuuming (or EVER, really, how creepy is that?) I'd have a hard time not punching him in the face.
I know, right? First of all, why would I casually mention to a guy that I was vacuuming??? (Do the AskMen writers ever encounter any actual women?) Second, I have hard wood floors. So what, I just never ovulate? What morons.
I love this one too - I mean, wtf??? Do I wanna tell some guy what's going on with my menstrual cycle when we've just been talking for five minutes? Let me think. No. And since when do you ever tell people you barely know about your vacuuming habits?
Then, of course, there's that wonderful line, "Women love it when you teach them something new -- especially about themselves." Because we need you big strong smart guys to make us learn things, cause we couldn't otherwise.
This stuff is seriously weird. I think they need female columnists to give them the skinny instead of sounding like jackasses.
OMG. I think my husband might be ovulating.
lol, mine too!
This makes me so sad :( Lies and manipulation and SHAME are never ever ever the way you should treat your partner! Oh wait, I forgot men OWN the women they are with so they are just tricking and training their property -_-
As someone who is becoming something of a gym rat and loves being in shape I can understand a partner wanting their partner to be in shape with them (WITH THEM being the key word here). I think it's wonderful when a couple will MUTUALLY decide to get fit and doing it together is a great way to get creative and stay motivated! Of course, these men don't want to get up off the couch and can't be bothered to make an effort themselves!
The fat man/skinny woman model is so so so offensive to me and it seems to exist on practically every sitcom and cartoon you can find. As if men are entitled to be fat, immature childish bafoons and women just HAVE to be lovely, intelligent, slender property and put up with their man's idiocy.
I thought the article was pretty funny myself. I know I look good but if my dude was getting chubby...
I don't say this to be a troll or contrary but when I wanted my girl friend whom I love dearly to lose a couple of pound I bought us some workout equipment and a workout DVD. I did this for two reasons
1. She was not happy with the way that she looked
2. I thought that she could look better.
I think that the people who find that article offensive are discounting a few things. Its meant to me over the top and funny NOT an actual strategy. In addition so what if a man wants his girlfriend to lose some weight, its called being human, we all want to be with the best looking person that we can.
It's one thing to WANT your girlfriend to lose weight, but it is quite another to try and get her to lose the weight because you care so much about her appearance.
If SHE wants to lose the weight as much as you want her to, fine. But that should be the ONLY reason that she is encouraged to exercise. She might not have your ideal woman's body type, but guess what? THAT'S called being human. And I think it's presumptuous to assume that everyone wants to be with the best looking person... I am not always attracted to the most conventionally attractive men. And I'm perfectly fine with that. And I'm sure many other people feel the same way.
From the man's perspective:
About clear and open communication: Ladies, I hate to break this to you but telling you that your ass is getting fat no matter how politely we phrase it will do nothing but cause a confrontation. Don't believe me; ask your significant other if you look fat and watch closely as he squirms. I could tell my male friends their ass is getting fat but the women I know would flip a cog. For me, I don't care about weight as long as a woman is happy with herself. That is what makes a woman sexy. Unfortunately so many of you are duped with the rest of the masses into believing you should look like this, talk like that, dress like her. Doubt me, count the number of shoes in your closet. Now for the closer. I would not be above subtle manipulation if I thought I was helping someone I cared about. I'm not saying I would rig a chair to collapse nor would I buy smaller clothes. I wouldn't be above asking her to workout with me a few more times a week. Subtle and it doesn't hurt her feelings.
sigh. Thanks for teaching all of us about what women are like, I'm sure they were entirely alien creatures to us before.
I have a wonderful idea: accept the fact that your GF knows she's gained weight (because she's putting on clothes every day) and then mind your own business. I don't mean to be snarky, but this post touched a nerve with me because my ex-fiance used to harp on my weight all the time (we both gained about 30 pounds over the course of our three-year relationship). But at the same time, he'd pick on me for buying skim milk or diet drinks or low-sodium food, and whine when I took time for myself to work out.
I completely understand having concern for your SO - NOT because she's gained weight, but because she's unhealthy and/or unhappy. The best thing you can do in that case is be supportive, examine your behaviors to see if you're enabling unhealthy habits (like my ex's beloved "cheese nights" - yecch) and above all, understand that her body IS NOT ABOUT YOU.
I have four pairs of footwear in my closet -- sneakers, boots, flats and heels, for a total of eight shoes (and I didn't even have to count!). Was I supposed to wear ratty sneakers to prom and snow boots to job interviews? I guess I am just not self-confident enough to walk around looking like I let a 4-year-old dress me. Maybe one day I shall be as brave as you!
Perhaps your significant other would not feel quite so bad if you stopped "subtly" manipulating her into being thin. (And let's face it, these tips are not subtle at ALL.) You may not be the cause but I don't doubt that you're making it worse. If you were having insecurities about your dick size, would you appreciate her use of 'subtle tactics' such as using a male porn star's photo as her desktop picture, putting shady pills in the medicine cabinet, and buying condoms in the largest size she could find? Or would that make you feel kinda shitty, like she agrees with your belief that you aren't good enough?
Hey, BDR, your ass is getting trolly. You might want to go on a douchebaggery diet.
I mean, seriously, that's just too offensive to be real.
"From the man's perspective": Not "the man" in general. Don't try to be a spokesman for all men out there, because you do a great disservice to those, like my boyfriend, who aren't idiots.
"Unfortunately so many of you are duped with the rest of the masses into believing you should look like this, talk like that, dress like her. Doubt me, count the number of shoes in your closet.": What exactly does the shoe comment have to do with anything? Suddenly I'm "duped by the masses" because I love shoes? If I were an individual I would own one pair of shoes and wear them everywhere? Give me a fucking break. Your analogy sucks.
"I would not be above subtle manipulation if I thought I was helping someone I cared about.": From the whole asshole-tone of your post, it's pretty obvious your not-so-"subtle" hints are not for her benefit, but for yours. If you can't accept her appearance, then I guess that's your prerogative. But don't drag her down in the process. If she already feels bad, I'm sure it's not helping that she's dating someone like you.
So wait... I'm confused. You say you don't care about a woman's weight as long as she's happy with herself, but you talk about not being able to tell a woman her ass is getting fat? And you'd ask her to work out with you because it's subtle and it doesn't hurt her feelings?
Who the hell knows what they were googling at the time, but BDR and gentleman explorer's only reason for being at this site was apparently an ancient post from 2005 about a fairly disturbing sex toy called Real Doll.
http://www.feministing.com/archives/004313.html#comment-234445
Here's BDR's comment from that post:
"BDR said:
I have a question. Suppose these lifelike dolls are perfected to a point where they physically respond and can perform other domestic functions like cooking and cleaning. Suppose these things were priced at around ten thousand dollars. What percentage of men would prefer to marry a real woman vs. purchasing one of these dolls? Also, does anyone find it interesting that the rate for American men divorcing wives met in other countries is minuscule compared to American men who marry American women? If someone were to do a cost/benefit or risk analysis for an American man marrying an American woman, how do you think that would turn out when weighed against other options?
Also, a woman with a vibrator or dildo absolutely creeps me out. And I feel compassion for all of the Cinderella's, Pretty Women and what ever other delusions you poor ladies are forced to grow up with. God knows with rising obesity in this country it must be hard to look at a barbie doll."
Please take BDR's previous post and main interest in even having visited this site into account before you start taking any advice given by him with regards to health/relationships/sex/body ideals/women seriously.
Don't believe me; ask your significant other if you look fat and watch closely as he squirms.
... You assume we're all fat? Or that our boyfriends must be unhappy with our bodies??
so many of you are duped with the rest of the masses into believing you should look like this, talk like that, dress like her. Doubt me, count the number of shoes in your closet.
I don't even know how to respond to this.
Thanks for your valuable lessons on women. I think I want the "dislike" button back.
That was a reply to BDR.
I really thought the linked article was a joke. And not like a witty pointed joke, but a roll-your-eyes oh-lord joke. And it's... it's... it's real.
I think I lost valuable brain cells and parts of my soul looking at that site.
So why are men supposed to be forced into never being allowed an opinion on their partner's appearance?
Why is a guy who is no longer attracted to his girlfriend because she's gotten fat an "asshole"?
If a guy is up front about the fact that he's not attracted to fat women, and his girlfriend gets fat, why is he suddenly a bad person worthy of the crap people here are saying?
I notice that (especially on this site), women are quick to insult fat guys (Seth Rogen in "Knocked Up", for instance), but defend to the death fat women.
How many women here date fat guys? If you're going to preach it, you'd better be practicing it.
Though, again, I notice it's always (according to feminists) the man's responsibility to never speak up, and somehow always be attracted, even when he's not.
I often read the women here saying that they don't care if someone finds them attractive or not, if they're fat, yet... it always comes back to demanding people find you attractive despite your being fat.
Makes no sense.
Hi! I'm dating a fat, bald, short guy! I find him attractive!
...what were you saying?
One personal example does not a rule make.
I just dislike the hypocrisy of a website where so-called feminists can spend an entire article (and comments!) talking about how "Knocked Up" is unrealistic because no woman like the female lead would EVER want a "fat unattractive" guy like the male lead, and then talk about how unfair and awful it is that fat women don't get the attention they think they deserve.
(caveat: this is a very heterosexist treatment of the male/female dynamic, but i'm writing it in response to a clearly straight-or-closeted moron, so bear with...)
Um, there's a wide, gaping hole between having "an opinion on [one's] partner's appearance" and sabotaging said partner's chair to fall apart.
Also, there's something to be said for the fact that most women are with men who take much less care in their own appearance than they expect out of the women they're with.
You see, this is why there are some comments on here to the effect that the author of the AskMen article should post a photo of his body.
No one here is saying that you (or any other individual) has to find them attractive regardless of their weight. There is simply a sentiment that a partner is not worth having who would passive-aggressively attack his partner because of her body.
Oh, and by the way, on the STFU tip, I, personally, would rather you just keep your mouth shut... because there are a lot of guys out here who would rather not have their images tarnished by self-righteous shitheads like yourself who just can't seem to get it.
Final note... I'd love to see a picture of you and BDR and of this author Thomas Foley (unfortunately, I'm striking out as it's such a common name)... because my experience has been pretty steady that many men expect more of women than they do of themselves...
Unfortunately, those of us who are a little more measured and balanced in our view of the world often get overshadowed by loudmouthed jerks like yourself. Oh, well...
Final note: re: Knocked Up, are you talking about this article, because it's certainly not as use describe it. The OP wrote that Katherine Heigl said the movie portrays women as "shrews, as humorless and uptight..." and that's why it's sexist. Or is it this article, which deals more with the movie as it pertains to reproductive freedoms... or are you talking about this quick hit where Jessica calls Rogen "adorable?"
I'm confused. Oh, wait... no, I think it's you who is confused. Because have you ever noticed that it's HOLLYWOOD and the makers of your lovely movie that actually trot out this fat-ugly-guy/ petite-gorgeous-girl love story again and again? Here, the most I've seen is an analysis of why that whole type of story is screwed up. Whatever.
Two final notes, I just couldn't hold back... Oh well.
Um, there's a wide, gaping hole between having "an opinion on [one's] partner's appearance" and sabotaging said partner's chair to fall apart.
I'm also speaking of the commenters, many of whom strongly implied that if a man doesn't like that his girlfriend has gotten fat, that means he's an asshole.
No one here is saying that you (or any other individual) has to find them attractive regardless of their weight.
They kind of are, what with comments basically saying they should find the "person" attractive, and not their body, etcetera.
Final note... I'd love to see a picture of you and BDR and of this author Thomas Foley (unfortunately, I'm striking out as it's such a common name)... because my experience has been pretty steady that many men expect more of women than they do of themselves...
I'm six feet tall, maybe a bit taller in shoes, depending on the type. I weigh 145 pounds, blonde hair (worn long), blue eyes, 2 earrings, tattoos on back.
I have pictures, but I am loath to just splatter them on a site visited by hundreds upon hundreds of people. Not out of any self-consciousness, mind. I'm just generally a very private person.
Unfortunately, those of us who are a little more measured and balanced in our view of the world often get overshadowed by loudmouthed jerks like yourself. Oh, well...
Again, there's nothing "jerky" about having standards. If someone finds something attractive, and someone doesn't fit it, there's really no reason to expect they'd still be attracted to that person at that point. At least physically.
I don't remember which Knocked Up article it was, I just remember the venomous comments.
Um... could you actually quote, for me, the places - or just mention who said them - where there's something wrong with finding someone unattractive? Because, well, for me, I've read twice something roughly related to what you're stating here... but both times, it was related to suggesting that the individual didn't stop being attracted to their partner, but felt the social pressure of wanting to be associated with an attractive (thin, etc.) partner in order to gain a certain degree of social status.
I mean, personally, I think it's kind of shallow to see your partner put on some pounds and suddenly decide that the most important issue is that s/he is no longer attractive to you - and then, to jump to harassing her/him about it with deceptive and manipulative tactics like dismantling household furniture.
Yeah, so that's really JERKY, actually... Standards... well, they may be shallow, but not so jerk-ish as what the article's actually talking about...
You, well, I'd consider you a jerk for coming on here and feeling like your rights are violated because folks are suggesting that being manipulative and cruel is not good for a love relationship. That's definitely jerk material.
Oh, and regarding your height... seems like you're a little underweight. I think you should hit the gym a bit, because you owe it to women to be at least be fit-looking... I can't imagine that, at 145 and 6', your arms are even mentionable, not to mention your muscle mass in general (I mean, even smalled framed 6' tall men should fall in the 149-160 range, according to my ideal height/weight charts). Earrings, tats and hair are kind of irrelevant to the conversation. Though, while you mention the long hair, I wonder how lustrous it is and how much care you really put into it. Because poorly maintained long hair on men, particularly lanky men, can be a real turn off...
As for me... well, I've been with bigger women and smaller women and... despite that I teach martial arts and love being fit - I'm more interested in the soul for which that body's just a vehicle. That, for me, is what's really hot. But I'm also sure that you can find someone who shares your "values." Probably not here, though...
Really final note: you said "up front." Did you read the article? Is there anything "up front" about it?
I mean, personally, I think it's kind of shallow to see your partner put on some pounds and suddenly decide that the most important issue is that s/he is no longer attractive to you - and then, to jump to harassing her/him about it with deceptive and manipulative tactics like dismantling household furniture.
Look at it like this:
Assuming that the relationship with your partner also includes a physical element, it's pretty silly to act as though physical attraction isn't a factor in it.
If you are no longer physically attracted to your partner, that will impact the physical component of the relationship, which will have a negative impact on the rest of it.
You can deny that, or argue it, or claim that the emotional component is more important than the physical, but, I would find them to be equally important. You need to be both emotionally and physically attracted to your partner.
If you don't have both, your relationship is going to fail. How can you physically be with someone who no longer does anything for you physically?
Yeah, so that's really JERKY, actually... Standards... well, they may be shallow, but not so jerk-ish as what the article's actually talking about...
There's nothing "shallow" about wanting a partner you're physically attracted to.
You, well, I'd consider you a jerk for coming on here and feeling like your rights are violated because folks are suggesting that being manipulative and cruel is not good for a love relationship. That's definitely jerk material.
I'd say "jerk material" is insisting that any man who has a problem with his partner getting fat should be dumped immediately.
Oh, and regarding your height... seems like you're a little underweight. I think you should hit the gym a bit, because you owe it to women to be at least be fit-looking... I can't imagine that, at 145 and 6', your arms are even mentionable, not to mention your muscle mass in general (I mean, even smalled framed 6' tall men should fall in the 149-160 range, according to my ideal height/weight charts). Earrings, tats and hair are kind of irrelevant to the conversation. Though, while you mention the long hair, I wonder how lustrous it is and how much care you really put into it. Because poorly maintained long hair on men, particularly lanky men, can be a real turn off...
I don't owe anything to women, because I don't really engage in romantic relationships anymore. So there.
I actually take very good care of my hair, if you must know, as I've worn it long for roughly 20 years.
As for me... well, I've been with bigger women and smaller women and... despite that I teach martial arts and love being fit - I'm more interested in the soul for which that body's just a vehicle. That, for me, is what's really hot. But I'm also sure that you can find someone who shares your "values." Probably not here, though...
Again, denying that physical attraction is an important component to a relationship is just an outright lie.
Really final note: you said "up front." Did you read the article? Is there anything "up front" about it?
Most men that aren't attracted to fat women will make this clear from the outset.
Hell, the fact alone that the woman they're dating wasn't fat when they started dating her should be enough to suffice.
If they wanted a fat woman, they'd have pursued one in the first place.
Hey, look, moron, I know it's easier to counter the argument that "men shouldn't consider physical appearance," but no one is making that argument.
Further, as pointed out above, except in the case of injury or illness, bodies don't change rapidly, allowing for plenty of time to engage the issue without resorting to pure jerkitude... if a woman's shape is really SO IMPORTANT to you.
Oh, yeah, and since you're not interested in relationships, why are you so invested in this issue?
As far as the "shallow" thing, I used the word "may," I also made it clear that this is MY OPINION. I've been involved with women who are, in MY OPINION, way too wed to physical appearance over emotional connection and that's just NOT FOR ME. Maybe it works for you... great, go ahead with your bad self... I still think you probably need to build up your muscle mass if that's the case, though.
And no one suggested that having an interest in being attracted to one's partner is grounds for being "dumped immediately." On the other hand, folks have suggested that being a manipulative prick who buys clothes that are too small, leaves photos of big-titted chicks lying around the apartment or dismantles furniture to make a point IS GROUNDS FOR DUMPING. Because that's cruel, insensitive and kind of undermines the whole "emotional connection" thing you still seem to think is a component of a healthy relationship.
You keep arguing against a point no one is making, do you get it yet? You still can't point out one person who's said that it doesn't matter if you're attracted to your partner, but that invisible enemy is the only person against whom your arguments would hold any water.
You DO KNOW that the only "DTMFA" comment was made regarding a woman whose boyfriend is pressuring her to get COSMETIC SURGERY to increase her breast size through such mature tactics as leaving photos of other women around the house "surreptitiously."
Regarding your final statement... This post is about an article... the article is about tactics that are ANYTHING BUT UP FRONT. That's what everyone (but you) is talking about. So, really... get over yourself...
Or don't... I don't really care, just wanna set the record straight... and, apparently, it doesn't matter much for your (admittedly nonexistent) love life.
Be well! Err... I mean "so there!"
Oh, re: "shallow"... I mean shallow in terms of its synonym "superficial;" in other words, "concerned only with the obvious or apparent"... yeah, so being concerned enough with a partner's weight as to dump him or her because of weight gain would, for me, be almost the definition of "shallow."
So I've sent an email to Consumer Relations at Dr. Pepper, as they are the main advertiser within this article. I've let them know that this article insults women and that I will not be drinking their products anymore. (It kinda pisses me off cause if and when I drink soda, it is usually Diet Dr. Pepper.)
But maybe this was just another subtle way of telling me I'm getting fat and that I should lay off the soda, even if it's diet. If so, it's genius!
UntouchableFace - so you're saying that men are immature and can't love a woman who's body naturally changes over the course of time, because she doesn't look exactly like she did when they met (but I'm oh-so-sure HE does.)? Sounds pretty assholey to me.
Sounds like he should probably grow up and break up with said woman if he's so unhappy and still exactly as physically fit as he was when they met. I mean, women are worthless unless they stoke your fire, amiright?
Hey, look, moron, I know it's easier to counter the argument that "men shouldn't consider physical appearance," but no one is making that argument.
Further, as pointed out above, except in the case of injury or illness, bodies don't change rapidly, allowing for plenty of time to engage the issue without resorting to pure jerkitude... if a woman's shape is really SO IMPORTANT to you.
First off, making ad hominem arguments doesn't really further your point, it just makes you look ignorant.
Moving on, you say no one is making that argument, but then you turn around and imply that anyone who dares want to be physically attracted to their partner is flawed.
Oh, yeah, and since you're not interested in relationships, why are you so invested in this issue?
I don't have to be a director/producer/actor/etc to critique movies.
his post is about an article... the article is about tactics that are ANYTHING BUT UP FRONT. That's what everyone (but you) is talking about. So, really... get over yourself...
Again, the fact that the person involved got involved with a woman he found physically attractive, it would stand to logical reason, that if her body was radically altered (such as getting fat), that that would be outside his standards of attraction.
Though, considering you're getting all worked up, I'd advise you to get over yourself instead.
yeah, so being concerned enough with a partner's weight as to dump him or her because of weight gain would, for me, be almost the definition of "shallow."
"So being concerned enough with a partner's opinions/anything emotional you didn't like/etc would be the definition of shallow".
See how easy that was?
It's so easy to say "Oh, liking someone's physical body is shallow!". Well, liking someone's brain is just as shallow, as it's still a part of them they can't readily change.
Dumping someone because they voted for a president you didn't like/support things you don't/whatever is no more or less shallow than dumping them because you're no longer physically attracted to them.
UntouchableFace - so you're saying that men are immature and can't love a woman who's body naturally changes over the course of time, because she doesn't look exactly like she did when they met (but I'm oh-so-sure HE does.)? Sounds pretty assholey to me.
No, I'm saying men are not under any obligation to be stuck with someone they aren't physically attracted to anymore.
If someone isn't what you want, why would you expect them to stay in a relationship that's not what they signed up for?
If a man suddenly changed in a way a woman found unacceptable, would you expect her to "love him anyway"?
Sounds like he should probably grow up and break up with said woman if he's so unhappy and still exactly as physically fit as he was when they met. I mean, women are worthless unless they stoke your fire, amiright?
That's such fail, amiright?
In a romantic relationship, you have two components. One is emotional. The other is physical. Can you have that second component if you're physically repulsed by your partner? I'm thinking "no".
Also, nice attempt at telling men to "grow up". If a woman is adamant in what she wants in a partner, would you tell her to "grow up" (infantilizing her in the process) and tell her to settle for something she doesn't want, instead?
Actually, I called you a name. That's more of an insult than an ad hominem attack. If I were to say that you're a shallow prick who is too insecure with himself to commit to a relationship with another person, that would be an ad hominem attack. That's not what I said, though. I just insulted you. One word : moron. Sorry if I hit too close to home.
Moving on... physical appearance is superficial - as in, it resides on the surface. Even if one's character were simply the way his or her brain looked, it would not be superficial, as it resides within the person. However, one's character tends to be a lot deeper than simply the physical characteristics of his/her brain. If you don't get that, cool. Whatever.
I don't think it's wrong to let physical attraction guide one's love life to some degree - in fact, I think it's necessary (again, to a degree). However, if your entire argument for dumping and/or terrorizing your partner hinges on external features/appearance, yeah, I think that's pretty shallow. If you can't think of a better way to state your dissatisfaction than by buying clothes you know are too small for her, then you're not just shallow, you're an ass who is in severe need of learning to interact with other humans.
If someone breaks up with someone else simply because of how the someone else voted, that, too, is superficial, as in, it's a judgment based on a very surface experience. If one were to dump one's partner because his/her reasoning behind voting one way or another led to a conversation that revealed more incompatibility between the two, that's another story, but that's not what you said.
I'm of the opinion that simple "deal-breakers" like being registered to vote one way or another or having a BMI over a certain number prevent individuals from actually getting to know what is beneath the surface. Surface = superficial. Get it yet? And I did make a distinction between being "superficial" and being a "jerk."
Final point which you don't seem to be getting. The OP and the comments on this thread are not talking about whether or not it's okay to be attracted or not attracted to someone else based on appearance. The article referenced in the original post is about using manipulative and deceptive tactics to harass one's partner regarding her weight.
If you are ever in a romantic relationship again and your partner resorts to scheming in order to get you to change a part of yourself, I would suggest you move on, because that is not a healthy behavior for an intimate partner. If you read what people were actually saying, you'd see that. However, you can't even single out one person stating what you seem to be arguing against (ie, that it's somehow wrong to let your attraction be determined by physical characteristics). Further, that's not what the OP was talking about and is only tangentially related to the AM top 10 posting.
"So being concerned enough with a partner's opinions/anything emotional you didn't like/etc would be the definition of shallow".
Um... mind you, I mean "shallow", once again, in terms of being overly concerned with surface characteristics. It has nothing to do with whether or not the individual can change (as the surface is often easier to change than what's inside... which is why it's not strategic to be superficial).
Almost by definition, opinions, emotional behavior, etc. are NOT superficial, as they lie "beneath the surface," as they say. Geez... maybe I was right on target with the "moron" jab (see, that's an ad hominem attack).
Sorry folks, troll is gone!
Whoa! This is insane! We are such a manipulative species...