Fat shaming by way of bus stops
Via Womanist Musings, I find myself speechless.
Located in the Netherlands, Fitness First took it upon themselves to use a different approach to marketing their clubs - public shaming. When someone sits on a bench to rest while waiting for the bus, the ad literally shows the person's weight in red numbers for the world to see. I second Renee's thoughts.
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Maybe the American version will improve on this rather bland continental version with air raid sirens and a taped 3-minute harangue from ponytailed guru Tony Little should a certain weight threshold be reached.
How can these types of ads even exist in Netherlands? Are the Dutch less sensitive about their weight? Is being heavy less stigmatized? Do the Dutch have less concern for privacy?
All I know is if this ad were placed at a bus stop in any major US city it wouldn't last a day. What makes Netherlands so different?
Well, as a very general statement, the Dutch are a bit more blunt than Americans.
By "blunt" do you mean RUDE and INSULTING and HAVE NO CONCERN FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S FEELINGS?
Because that's what this sign is.
But, then again, the Netherlands is a country that has thousands of free public urinals for men on the streets of it's big cities, and very few public toilets for women, so in-your-face Dutch sexism isn't that surprising.
Disgusting. I, too, am speechless (which is unusual).
Absolutely horrid.
This advertising is profoundly hostile towards the elderly, the infirm, the disabled and those with mobility problems e.t.c. who might not be able to stand unaided for prolonged amounts of time. They have to make so-called "choice" of sacrificing their dignity for a basic need.
Effectively these people are being forcibly publicly humiliated by this company.
Also, how might somebody recovering from an eating disorder feel to see their weight being displayed in gigantic, flashing numbers on a public billboard?
It is exactly the sort of experience which can seriously delay recovery and even provoke relapses.
Exactly, this is harmful to everyone.
I'm very thin for my build. In fact, I've been getting moreso lately because I've been pretty sick for about the past month. My mother even made me weigh myself the other day and then when she found out my weight kept asking questions to see if I had an eating disorder. It was incredibly embarrassing, and this was in the comfort of my own home! I would never want strangers ridiculing me like that at a bus stop.
I can only imagine the harmful effects this would have on someone who was actually recovering from an eating disorder!
And we have enough fat shaming going on in the general public as it is without hiding giant scales everywhere that will broadcast people's weight.
Ugh.
This definitely calls for some Guerilla Girl-style "vandalism"...
I won't lie, this made me so mad when I found out that I don't think I'd be able to walk past one with out breaking it if I ever came across one.
Exactly. How has this not been vandalised yet? I'd have a hammer to the thing! Spray paint, ect.....Gimme a ticket to the Netherlands, some paint and a sledge hammer.
The answer is simple: Pay more taxes for your public transportation and reduce dependence on advertising revenue.
Or just not give a shit about your weight and realize like any intelligent adult that your #'s are not reflective of who you or anyone else is as a person and then you'll be entirely free from societal bullshit like this in the future.
Seriously, if you're aware enough to know that it's bullshit then embrace that awareness.
Yes, we should all be entirely immune to the cultural attitudes that surround and construct us. Shedding the socialization that has resulted in deeply internalized cultural ideas and values should be the work of a mere minute. And anyone who can't do this is a weakling and deserves none of our thought or sympathy. Pathetic weaklings!
Or you could choose to allow others to have power over your self-esteem, spending your entire life wallowing in the false-martyrdom that comes about from intellectual laziness and a desire for the world to go ahead and fix its own inequities while providing absolutely no reason for it to do so.
The agency being exercised here is one granted freely by the subject/victim. The moment the subject/victim chooses to say "That's fucking stupid. I'm ignoring that." then they have proactively diminished the power of oppression.
I don't think its as simple as you suggest Logrus.
Sure I can choose to decide that the number displayed on the wall is of no consequence to me, but I can't control the actions of others when they see that rather large number. And those actions may range from a snide look to physical violence. You can't know which end of the spectrum it will be.
And what this sign reinforces is the idea that there is an 'acceptable' weight for a person, and if that person refuses to conform to that 'acceptable' standard, they are to be mocked and ridiculed. My choosing to ignore it does not diminish this.
It is larger (ahem) than the subjective experiences of the person who sits on the seat.
It is exactly that simple, it's just not easy.
Frankly what frustrates me a lot more than a company trying to use cheap tactics that may have a negative impact on my health (HFCS vs real sugar because it's cheaper) or reinforcing negative societal constructs (because it's how you make a profit in the "fitness" industry, you sell guilt memberships to people after shaming them for being fat knowing the majority will never even show up to the gym and occupy space. Thus you always have a nice clear facility to show off to the next sucker) is the crybaby attitude of people who should know better than to expect a fair shake from the world.
Mother nature ain't fair, and profit motives sure as fuck ain't fair. Complain about "fat shame" to the guy or gal so crippled up from CP that he or she can't straighten his or her toes, let alone get out of that fucking chair. That person has it hard and a straightforward attitude change won't ever alter that situation. But here is a situation where simple awareness and determination can actually make a change in attitudes of the subjects and the objects and for the most part all you see here is pissing and moaning.
Yeah, there are always going to be pricks and cunts out there who will try and elevate themselves by standing on your neck. All the more reason to toughen up and start to deny them access to your dignity.
Change is a struggle, it's a fight. Whining about injustice is no kind of fight and any adult who can't muster anything more than a plea for sympathy deserves very little of that.
"Yeah, there are always going to be pricks and cunts"
Could you not use cunt in the negative.You need to read some Inga.
I'd probably offer a sincere apology for an unintended offense if you'd included "pricks" in terms not to use, but as you omitted it I won't.
Go read some George Carlin.
Why is it OK to refer to male genitalia in the negative but not female genitalia? The negative use of either is degrading.
Wait, wait, wait. You're contradicting yourself now. How can you object to this:
you sell guilt memberships to people after shaming them for being fat
if you think that we should all toughen the fuck up and not allow ourselves to experience the guilt and shame that advertisers and our broader culture try to inflict upon us? I thought in your view the onus is entirely on us to learn how to be entirely immune to our culture. In that case, how can you object to these advertising tactics? You're not making much sense.
There is no contradiction here. Think of it as an assault in a physical sense, but in this instance it is an assault that the victim can either avoid or prevent. They can try and convince you that either you're "fat" or that you should be ashamed of your body, but this requires complicity on your/our behalf.
The obligation to improve the situation is entirely on the victim because the predator has no reason to change tactics until the existing one(s) have been demonstrated to be ineffective.
But you're not advocating that we change the system, but rather that we suck it up and stop being such mollycoddled weaklings. Get your story straight.
You're fabricating inconsistencies because you can't argue your point.
If you ignore the tactic being used to generate revenue here you deny a motive for the continued use of the tactic in the most efficient manner possible as well as immediately benefiting your own self.
I'm arguing my point just fine, but if it's too complicated for you I'll try to simplify it.
Your claim is that we ought not to worry our pretty little heads about advertisements that seek to publicly shame people into buying fitness products and services, but should rather learn how to become immune to cultural influences and messages that surround us in order to not be mollycoddled weaklings and whiners.
I respond that it's not either/or, and a part of activism is consciousness raising and working to change harmful cultural attitudes. So while I agree that we should learn to be critical of and reject harmful cultural attitudes and values, I claim that we should also work to change them.
You deny this and say that working to change them is just more whining, and takes time and energy away from the true "progressive" issues. And yet, you go on to criticize advertising methods that utilize guilt and shame. These two claims are not consistent, and if you wish to develop a coherent argument, you need to eliminate the contradictions (or implied contradictions) in your premises.
Got it?
Logrus, your view doesnt make sense. If were empowered then we'd dismantle it not simply ignore it and let it continue.
I agree!
You're confusing vandalism and acts of transgression against private property and the right to free expression (even if it is free expression by a corporation) with self-empowerment.
Even little kids get this concept: "Stick and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me."
Do kids no longer recite this?
Even as a young child I found that phrase incredibly false and ridiculous. It's like if we repeat it over and over again then maybe one day it will be true. But it's just not. The sad fact is that words can hurt just as much.
We need to work as a society to change this and to work within ourselves. But it's not just a snap of the fingers as you're being quite insensitive in suggesting Logrus. And you know that. Good for you if you can just click your heals together and say what others say and do doesn't bother you and it's true, but that doesn't work for most people. It's not like flipping a fricking light switch.
And I think you're reading Gopher's wording of "dismantle" too literally. You can try to "dismantle" this institution without actually destroying property.
It's no more insensitive to suggest ignoring the b/s that gets piled on us as individuals than it is to encourage someone to struggle on, despite difficulty, against oppression of any kind.
Frankly anyone incapable of pushing past the very minor difficulty of a weight scale on public display is probably worthless when it comes to effecting larger social change. The revolution will not be won by hothouse flowers and mollycoddled weaklings afraid to confront unpleasantness.
Frankly I don't even know how to respond to you when you call other people on this board "weaklings." No one is suggesting cowering in a corner. We're suggesting change. Changing the system. Saying stuff like this is not okay. Choosing not to just ignore it. That does no one any good.
Those like logrus will always use their authentically cowardly response as an excuse to walk away and ignore something wrong under the guise of 'being tougher than it.' If there were thousands of logruses out there we'd never have evolved to where we are today. Maybe southern black Americans shouldve just toughened it out rather than confronted the injustice?
But "ignoring it" is first of all impossible, and second of all not the only option. Why couldn't we work to become better at critical thinking and resisting the mesages that we're inundated with while also working to change the cultural attitudes behind these messages? And if you don't believe in engaging in critiques of pop culture and activism to bring about social change, then why hang out on a site like Feministing, where everyone else is so clearly and profoundly wrong in your book? It's a strange approach coupled with odd behavior.
Because for the most part I see real activism being diluted with distractions that are profoundly inconsequential when contrasted with larger social issues.
Individuals here and elsewhere are being distracted by matters that they can fix themselves or by people who could fix their own problems dragging progress down with them because of said individuals own unwillingness to engage in the unpleasant task of confronting personal problems.
It's very dimple to derail real progressive movements, you toss in a few minor and divisive issues that everyone or most everyone can agree are unjust or transgressive, but which require a disproportionate amount or resources to redress compared to their ultimate benefit for progressives as a whole.
Energy, attention, even compassion; these are all resources of limited supply but unlimited demand. I'm not arguing that this is a good thing, but that when we consider that there are only so many hours in the day, so to speak, how many can we afford to spend on this (something I earnestly believe is a matter that the individual can choose to disregard) knowing that those are efforts not being spent bringing rapist cops or overseas slavery to an end?
You can spend years sidetracked from the big picture accomplishing very little or spend that same effort making an effort toward a genuine egalitarian society. My belief is that in a real society and culture of equals this shit will self-correct or be of so little consequence that it's not worthy of notice. This is the kind of thing that should be regarded with the same level of notice as a dick and spunk drawing at the same bus stop "Oh, that's stupid. Now I'll go on with my life and forget about it."
Again, you haven't explained how consciousness raising and working to change harmful cultural attitudes is unacceptable. I've been an activist for years, and in my experience that's where activism starts.
And your position is still incoherent. To claim both that people shouldn't whine about the plethora of negative attitudes they're inundated with or try to bring about change in this area, and that somehow you have a secret way to further progressive causes that involves victim-blaming is inconsistent. Identifying oppressive rhetoric and working to change it is a progressive cause. We should object to sexism, racism, sizeism, ableism, etc wherever and whenever we see them. We should point out the bullshit mythology such as fat=unfit and thin=healthy in order to change cultural attitudes. This is a form of activism, and it's progressive to object to all forms of oppression. What's not progressive is victim blaming and labelling people as weaklings when they can't instantly throw off the socialization of a lifetime in order to become entirely immune to their culture.
Exactly. I didnt literally (but didnt not) mean to dismantle. Physical acts arent negative as long as theyre done with honroable purpose. I'm not as prudish/pat on the head needy as logrus.
You seriously believe that words can never hurt you? Really? Are you being serious or ironic?
And believing that because words cannot break your bones they therefore cannot hurt you is based on a classical logical fallacy.
Words can only do you injury if you allow them to do so (ok, words spoken at about 120dB probably can do you physical injury).
You may be comfortable giving strangers control over your emotions, but that's your choice. You're clearly not mentally handicapped, so you should know that what I say (me, a stranger on the internet) can do you no real harm unless you decide to believe what I say is true.
As I've said it may be difficult to make this intellectual choice to have control over your own emotions, but it is your choice.
I'm sure the things that one individual says about me can't do me harm. But repeatedly hearing the message, from a plethora of sources in my culture, that my body wasn't good enough, that I didn't deserve, love, respect, friendhip, etc. because I was fat, would inevitably inform the way I viewed myself. It couldn't not effect me in that way, because I'm human. And the flip side has the same effect. I personally have never had an issue with weight and have always more or less fit the western beauty standard. Because of that I've gotten positive responses and a welcoming attitude from complete strangers all my life. What the fuck do they know about me? What have I done to gain their approval? Nothing. But having the immediate approval of everyone I interact with has absolutely effected my self-image and worldview even though I consciously reject the cultural attitudes that give rise to this approval.
Nobody lives in a cultural vacuum, and nobody is immune to the effects of their culture.
And get over this idea that the only way something can hurt you is physically. It's immature and laughably unrealistic.
There are multiple ways to empower yourself.
One way is to ignore it.
Another way is to dismantle it.
Either way you are choosing to throw a wrench in the system because in both situations you are not responding the way the health club or society at large wants you to.
Ignoring something like this can be a very powerful gesture, for others to see and for yourself.
But I'm sure they'd really, really rather me not literally throw a wrench at it. So thats the one that is the strongest option.Ignoring something thats wrong does nothing to stop it. I've moved beyond being affected by the billboard message and realize how wrong it is, so therefore I dont want it perpetuated. It has nothing to do with me personally, but the fact that the company has crossed a line and should hear from the public about it. They cant hear if youre not speaking. Anyways, this idea is forced onto the public by assaulting a public space. Assault em back.
You have a remarkably naive view of agency and social contruction. I agree that individuals are agents who can become more self-aware and choose to form their own attitudes toward these issues. But that only occurs within a limited range, and the cultural attitudes that surround you will always affect you in some way. It's ridiculous to claim that they won't.
So rather than putting the entire onus on the individual to toughen the fuck up already and learn how to tune out all the messages their culture is sending them, I prefer to work for social change, so that people won't have to contantly be battling their world. Nobody is immune to the culture in which they are embedded. Of course I also advocate that people become more independent, better critical thinkers, etc. But to claim that they should somehow learn how to avoid internalizing any of the messages of the culture within which they are socially constructed is really bizarre and unrealistic.
Exactly! Its a very impotent position that will do nothing.
I realize my #'s aren't who I am, and in fact I've even posted my weight in comments on this very blog in the recent past. *I* posted my weight because *I* chose to do so. Which is utterly, completely different from having my weight broadcast to the world without my consent or prior knowledge in a public place where I may be ridiculed or physically attacked by someone who still thinks this is acceptable behavior to direct at fat people.
I agree that it is a violation of privacy to have your weight "broadcast to the world" and it should be our choice to divulge this to people or not.
This is a breach of privacy. It's not "fat shaming". Fat shaming is saying that people should hide their weight because they should be embarrassed by it.
Fat shaming is assuming that someone would be unable or unwilling to sit on this bench because they would be ashamed of the number that appears.
Obviously this is the intent of the fitness organization (which I think is a horrible, but probably effective) so they can get more customers. But people should not be ashamed of their weight and should be able to sit on the bench without worry.
Being ashamed of something is a choice. You don't have to feel ashamed if you don't believe you have anything to be ashamed about.
So no one should feel as though they are unable to sit at this bench just because it's going to display their weight. Because who cares what their weight is?
Ok, well thank you for at least being polite. But I have to disagree. I'm not ashamed of my weight, but since the prevailing societal opinions of fat people are all negative, and this thing is in a very public place, all the people around me would be able to engage in fat-shaming by your definition: they think I should be embarrassed. Sure, I have plenty of days when I'd sit there and smile at the world, thinking "hi, fuck you!" if anyone had a problem with my weight. But I'm just not that strong every day, and I don't think I should have to be, nor should anyone else.
I appreciate that it sucks. Probably sucks to be a gazelle too, but the first day the gazelle can't muster the energy to run away from the cheetah is the last day for that gazelle.
So that's your "progressive" viewpoint? That it's the survival of the fittest, and if you don't fit your culture's standard then too bad, it sucks to be you? You have a bizarre idea of "progressive." Next I expect you'll be advocating that the weak be killed and eaten.
Maybe, ideally, you shouldn't have to be that strong.
But the reality is you DO have to be that strong. Because your self-esteem is your own responsibility. Yes, it's fucked up that certain corporations or companies or governments, factions or whatever will ATTEMPT to prey on people's insecurities in order to benefit themselves.
But you don't have to be prey in this scenario. You can say "fuck you" to these people and sit on the bench anyways.
And if you are not "strong enough" to stand up for yourself and oppose these forces every day then maybe you should be ashamed.
Empower yourself. Fuck these people. Be comfortable with who you are, not with the situation you find yourself in. Change the situation, not yourself. And there are plenty of ways to do this, as others have been enumerating.
The only way to combat fat shaming as a cultural reality is to NOT BE ASHAMED.
But trying to make yourself unrealistically immune to your culture is not the only way to respond to fat shaming. I'm not sure why this has to be either/or. You can work to change cultural attitudes and practices while at the same time working to root out the hateful and biased attitudes and values that you've internalized as a result of your socialization. But leaving those cultural attitudes in place and blaming the individuals who have naturally internalized them will only guaruntee that another generation of girls will grow up surrounded by harmful messages, which they cannot help but internalize during their formative years, when they are incapable of the kind of independent thought and critical thinking it takes to sort out the messages and reject the harmful ones.
And always placing the onus of "toughening up" on the victim is another way for a patriarchal culture to protect and maintain its privilege.
Just the other day I was walking down the street and an angry mob was attacking someone because they found out how much that person weighed.
No, really.
O.K. not really, because that is possibly one of the most stupidly insane conclusions I've seen this week.
Gee I wish I lived in your bubble.
Are you telling me you've never seen/heard a group of teens laughing and ridiculing an overweight person? Taunting them with things like "Oh my god, get up before you break the chair!" "Do you have to buy two seats on an airplane?" "Don't make her angry or she'll sit on you!" If not then you live in a better world than I.
I'm telling you that unless the weight measurement is audible thereby attracting blind people, the one group presently unable to spot someone they deem to be "fat" without a scale, then the sign is unlikely to incite any assholery that isn't already going to be present.
"I'm telling you that unless the weight measurement is audible thereby attracting blind people, the one group presently unable to spot someone they deem to be "fat" without a scale, then the sign is unlikely to incite any assholery that isn't already going to be present."
Its a bus stop. Everyone whose there can see it, not to mention the fact that its not closed off from anyone else from seeing inside it.The user thats sitting on the bench doesnt give a fuck about being weighed that day nor whatever the company is trying to sell using their weight number as a selling point. I cant see how it would be effective if more than two people sat on it and I'm sure it would discourage users from sitting on it if they are the only one. I would think it would be especially aggitating to pregnant women.
They can already see the person. If the person presents any number of physical traits that an asshole will use to justify abuse then the scale make not one iota of difference.
If a person is "fat" in the mind of an abusive observer then said observer already has eyes to see this.
Sigh. Ok, here we go then. I did not, in fact, say that "an angry mob" would be "attacking someone because they found out how much that person weighed." But fat people are ridiculed in public routinely, and I know that I for one have felt physically unsafe because of that ridicule. No, I haven't been actually lynched. Yes, I have been treated with hostility. Other people have as well:
http://www.bigfatblog.com/rod-liddle-advocates-violence-against-fat-people
The fucked up thing about being fat/a different color than the people around you/disabled physically/ugly/red haired/ or whatever you can think of is that there is no need for a scale to notify people that you are this way.
what you did do was imply that the addition of some numbers on a bench would be provocative toward physical violence: "...completely different from having my weight broadcast to the world without my consent or prior knowledge in a public place where I may be ridiculed or physically attacked by someone who still thinks this is acceptable behavior to direct at fat people."
This is called insinuation. Unless you're celebrating St. Paddy's early and hardcore then you know it.
Ok, you've now called my stated opinion stupidly insane, implied that it's ok for me to be treated like an animal of prey, and insinuated that I'm either manipulative, stupid, or drunk. Since you're clearly incapable of having an actual productive discussion, I'm out. Buh bye.
I think I'm starting to get it now. It seems that in your worldview the only way you can attack someone is physically. That actually makes all of your earlier comments make perfect sense to me now. So, in your view, are rape and physical violence the only thing that feminists should fight against? Or should they even fight against those?
I can see now why the rest of us here seem so ignorant, whiny, and weak in your view. It's a strange and completely out-of-touch worldview, but it is coherent, I guess.
If you would like to have a better sense of what the rest of us are talking about I would recommend an introductory sociology, early child education, or psychology class. I think you would probably gain a much more nuanced view of human interaction and social development that would enhance your feminist viewpoint.
Right. Embrace it.... and take a sledge hammer to the thing!
Logrus - no person is an island.
We're all products of our society - and society tells women that if they are not thin then they are subhuman.
So, and I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but the average person is not an Ayn Rand superhuman who is immune to shame and ridicule!
How about the douchebags who run Fitness First, and the nimrods who run the Netherlands Ministry of Transportation, stop insulting their female passengers?
OHHH. Because weight directly correlates to fitness. Thank you Fitness First for reminding us.
/sarcasm.
And this is the most salient point. The false equation of fitness with weight is really harmful. A lot of naturally thin people are in terrible physical condition, while many fat people are in good shape. So the correlation of fitness with thinness is not only not helpful, but it's potentially damaging.
Have those not been vandalized or at least covered over with pieces of cardboard yet? I don't think they'd last long in the states.
I'd like to know exactly how big those numbers are; I'm wondering if they could be covered with, say, a very well-taped 8.5x11" piece of construction paper. That's what I'd start doing if I were there.
I think I'd probably help!
This makes me SO....ANGRY...
How much does my WIRECUTTERS weigh, Fitness First? What? You know, but you can't display the result anymore?
Imagine that...
smart. i like the wirecutters idea.
i've been studying in the netherlands since january, and i'm actually not too surprised to see this. you rarely (if ever) see people with any amount of meat on their bones out and about. maybe this is due to biking? i don't want to speculate.
however, in my experience, there seems to be a healthier attitude about body image here than in the US. there seems to be a lot less griping about actual body shape. if you have curves and you're healthy, it's really not a big deal.
that said--i am none too happy to see this. but there are some more concerning things happening in this country, notably the way sex workers have been utterly degraded by the amsterdam tourist industry. please see http://english.happyho.nl/Paginas/Happyhotour.html. the intersection of privilege, sex tourism, and not-so-great word choice just absolutely disgusts me.
hey mags, since you're living there, I have a random question about a rumor I've heard buzzing around (sorry, this is totally off track from the post)- is it true that due to EU regulations, the Netherlands are going to have to nix their very liberal laws towards prostitution and drugs? I heard they're being given a deadline and then the things they allows over there will have to be made illegal. It seems to me, that if this is true, then the economy in the Netherlands will be severely hurt, as after all, what are the main reasons people from all over the world flock to Amsterdam for?
And yes, this ad campaign is terrible. But I'm not surprised either. I'm from Greece and I could see this sort of thing pop up there too. I hope someone tears it down soon.
well, technically, all drugs (production, possession, sales) are illegal in the netherlands, but police just turn a blind eye unless it's causing some major kind of disruption or harm to others. however, shrooms are now completely illegal and, as i've heard, it's pretty well enforced. also, some towns have voted to close coffee shops within a certain distance from schools or youth centers.
prostitution is completely legal in the netherlands (provided that there's no coercion involved), but the amsterdam gov't has been buying up windows and sex clubs and turning them into studios for artists and designers. apparently 320 of the 400 windows will be closed in the next couple years.
i also know that a law was just passed (in 2008?) that only dutch citizens can rent rooms. apparently this was supposed to cut down on the number of young immigrants, mostly eastern european and low-income, that were being trafficked in to work in the sex industry...however, they've mostly been pushed into escort services and working in the seldom-regulated streets and homes.
honestly, i have no idea how these changes are going to affect the economy. i live in a fairly small border town and our teeny-tiny red light district is one of only 12 in the netherlands. it seems like the big one in a'dam is mostly populated by gawkers. what concerns me, though, is what happens to sex workers when their businesses are closed. i have no idea if the netherlands provides any financial or employment backup.
I used to live in the Netherlands... I think that the general lack of really big people is a combination of biking and more healthy body image. When I lived there (I was considerably younger) I got incredibly thin because I was constantly biking, never getting driven anywhere. There's still a full range of body types (just mostly really tall). But people are much less sedentary in NL (as compared to North America).
But the blunt attitude of people there can be overbearing and a bit fat-shaming. My brother and my sister both struggled with weight at certain times in their lives, and weren't received so warmly (my sister became anorexic while living there - but I think that has a lot to do with my sister/media exposure here than the Netherlands).
In general, however, I feel like attitudes about weight/fitness are healthier there
Yeah, those creeps over on Treehugger thought this was awesome--both the author and commenters. Of course, they wholeheartedly embrace exploitation of women and poor people, too, as long as it's done in the name of getting rich white people luxury items that have been falsely branded "green." Bah.
I don't know that it's germane to the discussion, but I did notice that in the photo, the woman is holding her feet up. So if you just sit down normally, it's not going to give an accurate reading.
I might wind up having some fun with it - seeing how much variety I could get in the numbers by bouncing ;)
Why is it such a big deal? Weight is just a number. It's not like people can't tell if you are fat or skinny or normal just by looking at you. I highly doubt knowing your weight would change someone's perception of your body size/shape.
Ok, so I agree that the ad is stupid, offensive, etc., but...besides the photo that we are looking at, what are the chances that only one person would be sitting on that bench? Two perhaps? Plus the bag is right next to the lady, she's wearing boots, a coat. I mean, that scale is not at all representative of what that person actually weighs. Fully sitting vs. perching on the bench will present a different number too. I understand the outrage, I think the whole idea is fully messed up, but I think that any intelligent person will realize the inaccuracy of the whole thing. Plus, if someone is fat or skinny, I can tell without looking at a scale. I believe people form judgement regardless. It comes down to our humanity and respect for one another. This ad is obviously disrespectful, but people's reaction is still their own responsibility.
Ok, so I agree that the ad is stupid, offensive, etc., but...besides the photo that we are looking at, what are the chances that only one person would be sitting on that bench? Two perhaps? Plus the bag is right next to the lady, she's wearing boots, a coat. I mean, that scale is not at all representative of what that person actually weighs. Fully sitting vs. perching on the bench will present a different number too. I understand the outrage, I think the whole idea is fully messed up, but I think that any intelligent person will realize the inaccuracy of the whole thing. Plus, if someone is fat or skinny, I can tell without looking at a scale. I believe people form judgement regardless. It comes down to our humanity and respect for one another. This ad is obviously disrespectful, but people's reaction is still their own responsibility.
hah! i am from holland. Someone asked why this fat-shaming isn't really an issue (yet) in holland.. I think the answer is pretty obvious.. there's fewer obese people in the Netherlands than in the US, and hence, little organized protests against this particular form of discrimination. The numbers of obese people are growing, though, and I wouldn't exclude the possibility that in a few years we'll have our own lobbying groups against such things. Right now, there is simply not the sensitivity to the ways in which biomedical discourses, coupled with those revolving around discipline and shame, shape perceptions and representations of weight and body-sizes..
Also, I think most dutch people wouldn't really consider this 'shaming' at all - more like a useful, if unusual service. I am not sure about this either - I mean, the scale does not include a measure of one's BMI or it does not display the numbers in red or green (for 'bad weight' and 'good weight'). Let's say it could have been much worse...
I wonder what happens when the bench/scale gets overloaded because you have three or four people and their backpacks on the bench at the same time? Will it break?
This is certainly in poor taste. At the same time, what Elanor Roosevelt said is true: no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. There's guilt as well as shame going on here.
But this is from a very American perspective. Do people in NL have cultural weight issues like we do in the US?
I'm from the Netherlands and I really couldn't care less, and I only know one person who would make a fuss out of this. It's two, possibly three red digits on a board. If this (feel free to interpret the word 'this' as either the ad, or one's weight) makes your list of 100 Most Important Things To Worry About, you should consider yourself truly blessed.
'Shame'? Eleanor Roosevelt was right.