There really are no words for this kind of case.
A community poster already covered the uproar by the Brazilian Roman Catholic Church of the abortion of a 9-year old girl who was raped by her stepfather. This is despite the fact that abortion is legal in Brazil in cases of rape and when the woman's life is in danger, which both applies to this girl (as she not only weighs just 80 pounds but was pregnant with twins):
The Catholic Church tried to intervene to prevent the abortion going ahead but the procedure was carried out on Wednesday.Now a Church spokesman says all those involved, including the child's mother and the doctors, are to be excommunicated.
The Archbishop of Olinda and Recife, Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, told Brazil's TV Globo that the law of God was above any human law.
He said the excommunication would not apply to the child because of her age, but would affect all those who ensured the abortion was carried out.
How merciful of them.
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These really aren't our bodies, are they?
They belong to men, they belong to God, they belong to our born and unborn children.
Anyone but us.
My thoughts are with this little girl, who's suffered more at the hands of men and in the name of their god than any little girl should.
That's hateful and callous, but consistent with strict anti-abortion views.
What moral hypocrisy I'm hung up on is, did the child-raping stepfather get ex-communicated? I'm guessing not.
No, the stepfather was not excommunicated as, while a serious sin, rape is not on excommunication list. Abortion is because it's 'murder'.
Sorry, that was in reply to Roni!
I'd like to hear from other RCC around the world, and hear their opinions on the matter.
So does the Catholic church excommunicate all other "murders" as well? Such as war crimes, domestic violence resulting in death, robberies, etc.? I'm willing to lay my money on the table that they don't. I'm turning red right now.
Interesting.....
Let's see....
The RCC excommunicates the mother and doctors for making a life-saving decision regarding a 9-year old's inability to carry out full-term twin fetuses as a result of a rape but not the step-father who perpetrated this???
The bible does state, "Thou shalt not kill" and it is one of their commandments.
But the rape of a 9-year old step-daughter is an abomination to God.
Read (Leviticus 18:17) – “Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son’s daughter, or her daughter’s daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.”
(Leviticus 18:29) – “For whomsoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.”
Take that Vatican!!!! If you wish to live by the bible (or scriptures as you call it which is taken directly from the bible), then you must live by all of it --- not just the parts you like!!!!!
Sooooooo, on that note, why isn't the step-father being excommunicated??? Is it because so would the priests that abused children have to be too????
These sort of actions simply are outside of my capacity for comprehension.
I believe in God. Or maybe just in the idea of God. It's not a dogmatic belief, but rather something that helps keep me going in a world where 9-year-old girls are raped by their stepfathers. But I will tell you right now, "my" God has nothing in common with the God of Brazil's Roman Catholic Church. Literally - nothing.
Isn't that interesting? I don't believe in God and never really have, although I was raised Catholic. What's interesting is that everytime I hear of a child being raped like this girl was, it reinforces my lack of belief. If God created this world, couldn't he have managed to avoid the creation of pedophiles? I mean, I know the whole free will argument but couldn't God have just thought that maybe it might be good to use his omnipotence to stop the creation of people who would abuse children so brutally?
Seriously. Shit like this reminds me that humans are on their own and we're not doing a great job.
See, I find the free will argument personally compelling. Although I find it interesting that most churches seem to believe we have free will when they want to blame us for something ("how dare you have sex!") and yet any success that happens in our life is supposed to have been divinely planned by an omnipotent being? What?
I totally agree with your last sentence.
I don't accept the free will argument because free will can't be reconciled with God's omniscience. If he knows everything then he knows what you are going to choose before you choose it. So free will is only an illusion or God isn't omniscient.
In any case, as I mentioned, I'm an atheist so I've heard all the arguments and none of them work for me.
Personally, as much as I believe in a god or gods (which is not a whole hell of a lot), I believe that it created the world both good and bad. If we look at the basic facts of life - that every living thing will go through pain and suffering at some point, even if it's only in the process of losing that life, and that by simply living we can't avoid inflicting pain and suffering on other living beings - it makes sense and is actually rather reassuring.
To me, at least. :)
How CHRISTIAN of the church to show such hatred and disregard for the safety and well being of this girl, a member of their congregation. What would Jesus do? My guess is that it wouldn't involve forgiveness of an incestuous pedophile rapist and the condemnation of the family of his victim for trying to save her life. I am appalled.
I no longer attend church or any religious institution, but I did grow up reading the Bible. Jesus said (paraphrasing): "If anyone seeks to hurt a child, it is better that he tie a millstone around his neck and cast himself into the sea." So basically, he was saying you should kill yourself, (a big Catholic no-no: they prohibit holding funeral services for suicides in a church) if you even thought about laying a hand on a child.
On the other hand, this bishop would rather a nine-year old, 80-pound child die from pregnancy-related complications in order to follow a "law" that is not even in adherence to what his "Word of God" says.
Others have spoken about the Church's disregard for children, shuffling child molesting priests from one parish to another with the ridiculous claim that "at least they weren't committing murder, aka, abortion." But it bears repeating--it's so mind-boggling.
As per the current catechism, the Catholic Church no longer funerals or Catholic burials for suicides, nor does it automatically relegate them to hell. It recognizes that most people who kill themselves are in anguish due to mental illnesses, so it does not place blame (i.e., consider it a sin) on the person who kills him/herself in such circumstances.
That was supposed to say the Church no longer forbids funerals, etc.
I always notice my typos after my comments have been posted!
I was going to comment as well, as I've attended a Catholic funeral for someone who committed suicide.
It does technically say whosoever causes a child to sin had rather tie a millstone around his neck, so I could see that passage being turned in support of this (completely indefensible, abhorrent) decision of the Church.
The Inquisition never really ended, did it?
I am always suprised at how so many women are taken aback by the actions of christian churches. The entire religion is based on male domination of everything.
Well I don't know that I'm surprised in the sense you mean. Of course the church is entirely based on male domination...but so is almost every structure within our society. You wanna talk about how masculinist the state is? But that doesn't mean I'm not going to vote. It is my personal preference to try to subvert the system than to disengage from it entirely.
But yes, I continue to be disgusted and appalled and shocked by news like this. The story is by nature disgusting and shocking. I hope that I do not become so used to the naturalization of misogyny and hatred that I stop being shocked by it.
And why in the fuck does the article say...the stepfather is suspected of rape. I hate it when they do that. I believe people should have a right to be innocent before guilty but it always feels like a punch in the gut when they do this with rape victims. Like..oh well until we know whether she's lying or not...yaddayadda. It really bothers me.
I just want to punch the catholic church in the face. I feel so much anger right now I cant even finish this comment. Its like theres no words. And who gives a fuck about excommunication, its like a fucking cult or something...cause I am pretty sure I can access God without a church. Any church. Gr
I noticed this as well. It was almost as if they were suggesting that the 9 year old girl went off and got pregnant all by herself.
Well, it's sort of part and parcel of being Catholic to believe that an virgin can suddenly be pregnant without sex. As a matter of fact, that point is maniacally important to Catholics.
They have to say that when no one has been convicted, or they can get in trouble.
And, I'm definitely not saying it happened in this case, but there have been cases where children have been coerced into accusing someone of sexual abuse when actually they were abused by someone else, or not abused at all. Sometimes the people doing the coercing don't even realize they've gotten the kid to lie. Or sometimes their abuser has them so terrified that he'll kill them and their parents if they say anything, that they point the finger at someone else who seems less threatening. Its always more of a risk with younger kids-- in general I think most 9 year olds are old enough to understand the truth and its consequences. Anyway, that is another reason in general to use words like alleged and suspected.
How sad for this girl and her family. The rape and preganancy weren't horrifying enough, now she has lost her support system in the church.
I applaud the doctors and her family that did support her through this difficult procedure.
Does this mean I can be retroactively excommunicated? Because i totally support the abortion. I would love to be actually technically excommunicated.
Ooh me too! Maybe we can write to the Roman Catholic Church, expressing our support for those who enabled this little girl to get the health care she needed, and ask that they officially include us in the excommunication?
Actually...to get excommunicated, all you have to do is write a letter to your cardinal renouncing your Catholic faith and declaring your apostasy. (You should probably include relevant info to prove you're Catholic to start with, baptismal and confirmation dates, etc.) Really, that's it. They send you a letter back, and then the Pope is officially over you.
I think it would be really fulfilling to make it a loooooong letter, detailing every single crappy part of the Church that you're renouncing, including this decision.
I think they need to count me excommunicated. I was raised Catholic and support this little girl.
Maybe they should also excommunicate the stepfather that caused this circumstance? all child rapists? all rapists? but then the church would suddenly find itself quite understaffed. Perhaps the priest shortage that would come from an excommunication of all rapists would necessitate a change in church policy regarding women priests.
This is Win, Kathryn.
As I said in the other post: The Church says that to have an abortion is worse than raping a six-year-old girl for three years until she's pregnant of twins as a nine-year-old.
So Yeah. Fuck Logic.
The Bishop said: "He commited an enormous crime, but it isn't on the excomungation list. This stepfather commited an horrible sin. But more horrible than that, do you know what is it? Abortion, to kill an innocent life."
Yes. Let me facepalm a bit...
OK, Feministing, I'm done now. I cried so much about it, RAGE tears. It's only a nine year old girl. Nine years. Pregnant with twins. And the Church says she's wrong. Why? WHY? WHY is it wrong to save a life?! This remembers me of Lina Medina, the youngest mother in medical story, giving birth to a boy at five years. This is so godfucking depressing. What a world.
Brb, crying rage tears.
I'm right with you on this point. Not to mention that that little girl's life has also been ripped into pieces by this whole situation, which makes him a murderer in my eyes. He quite literally destroyed her childhood.
Wow.... I'm sure Jesus would be sooo proud of those assholes... *rolls eyes*
This is a horrible thing that happened to this young girl and the church should support her instead of throwing her out on the streets in a religious aspect. It's not her fault what happened to her, that man took away her right to choose; she shouldn't have to pay the consequences for that. She was pregnant with twins; that could have killed her and the church can't justify the life of the young girl for the lives of the unborn children. She was too small to give birth and it is her RIGHT to do what she wants with her body. No one has a right to tell her she can't do something that is good for her and will benefit her at the end. God would never turn away from someone in need, and it's disgusting the Catholic Church is acting that way. Instead of just dropping her they should support her and help her lead her life from this point on.
-Becca Ferrelli
The Roman Catholic church is one of the most vicious and cruel institutions in this sick little world. Sorry if I offend any believers, but it is. Here, in Brazil, it's specially damaging. You can use this christian religion as an excuse to any shit. Sexism, homophobia, racism, xenophobia, you name it. Christianism backs it all up.
In my humble opinion, if we really want to live in an equal world, christianism and all the other mainstream patriarchal religions must go. Sorry if I sound harsh, or if you think you can conciliate feminism and christianism. I just can't see how it can be done.
actually, i'm a feminist *because* i am a christian/religious humanist, not in spite of. many of us feel that, since Jesus surrounded himself with prostitutes, criminals, and other marginalized members of society, that any racism, sexism, homophobia, and so forth is the EXACT OPPOSITE of how we should act and believe.
***thanking God for martin luther instigating the protestant reformation*** very VERY glad to not be catholic, for many reasons.
here's a nice quote from einstein that pretty much sums up how i feel about how to reconcile my belief in God with the seriously effed-up crap people do: "I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
this sort of heartless, cruel behavior toward a child and those that love her has absolutely nothing to do with the God that i believe in.
It's not about god. It's about organized, male-centric, institutional religion. God itself never did any harm.
Einstein was an atheist.
"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man." (Albert Einstein)
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." (Albert Einstein, 1954)
"I cannot conceive of a personal God who would directly influence the actions of individuals, or would directly sit in judgment on creatures of his own creation. I cannot do this in spite of the fact that mechanistic causality has, to a certain extent, been placed in doubt by modern science. [He was speaking of Quantum Mechanics and the breaking down of determinism.] My religiosity consists in a humble admiratation of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality. Morality is of the highest importance -- but for us, not for God." (Albert Einstein) Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press)
many people call this pantheism or deism, but this is pretty far from athieism.
Unfortunately, I think you're wrong. Even if we got rid of all patriarchal religions, we wouldn't get rid of the patriarchal, masculinist impulses behind them.
Not that I think it's even possible to get rid of all patriarchal religions. The most innocuous religion or creed can be turned into a reason to oppress people.
I don't believe in such a thing like an "innocuous religion", actually.
But you are right. I don't think we can get rid of them, the same way we can't get rid of rape, we can't get rid of misoginy, homophobia, racism, transphobia, ableism, etc. There will always be ones who consider themselves entitled to more than others. We can't get rid of the impulses, but I think we can make people see how damaging they are, and hope they will not act on them.
This poor child. I'm so glad she's at least going to have the chance of a "normal" life; not becoming a mother at 9 or dying. But I'm curious about the supporters reactions to being "excommunicated." Is it that important or big of a deal, for them? Or is it just the Church flexing it's "we're omnipotent" muscle?
Personally, I have tried to understand for years my mother-in-law, whose first husband and father of 3 children left her and "bastardized" the children by simply going to a priest and saying, "they aren't mine." After 12 years of marriage. She, and her children were kicked out of the church. She fought for another decade to get back in. I don't understand why. Wouldn't you just find another spiritual home, one that is loving?
Wow...I am about to cry...I am sitting here in my student teaching class...as the students are taking a test...and I'm doing everything not to cry...that poor little girl...where the hell was the church when her stepfather was raping her?..the supposed laws of God (btw written by MEN NOT GOD, could someone please tell me when and who God told all these flippin' laws to?)...This is just sick her family and those involved instead of getting therapy and support from their church in this devastating time, is kicked out...way to show the world God's love...and support...fabulous...I am so disgusted that it's not funny...an 80 pound baby and that is what that little girl was a baby herself...someone she should have been able to trust raped her...at at 9 years old and 80 pounds she was forcibly impregnated with twins...you cannot try to tell me that it is God's will...God had nothing to do with that...it's just too sick...
as was said so eloquently is some (absolutely outstanding blogging and ensuing dialog going on over at I Blame the Patriarchy):
Women/girls/females "... are considered human only until we are born"
as was said so eloquently in some (OUTSTANDING blogging and ensuing dialog going on over at I Blame the Patriarchy):
Women/girls/females "... are considered human only until we are born"
Whenever the Catholic Church says anything, I'm reminded of this clip (FFWD 3 min):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsI5pSS_tuY
Who gives a shit what the Catholic (or Baptist or Lutheran or Zoroastrian, etc.) religious hierarchy declares about who does or does not belong to their cult?
The girl in question, her family, and many of her supporters are Catholic, so I'm guessing they very much care.
And it's institutionalized sexism, about which we should all care.
For some people the church is a huge part of their lives and very ingrained in the culture they live in.
I've been raw about this story since I read about it. I grew up in Brazil and attended Catholic School. I used to pray in the school chapel when I felt sad about other kids bullying me. (I know, sniff, sniff.)
At the time, the little chapel was a source of comfort for me. Now I see how the Church that installed that chapel would have responded if I had been victimized in the same way that this poor child was.
Not that it should be a surprise, after all the child molestation scandals here in the U.S. If you're okay with your own priests abusing little kids, why should it be in any way outrageous when someone else does it? Whatever! Now, women having sex outside of marriage? Or acting as though their womb wasn't God's property? Now THAT's the devil's work!
Sadly, I'm not surprised. The Roman Catholic church is one of the most oppressive and misogynistic of all religious organisations. It works for anti-feminist legislation around the world and enables abusive and violent husbands to carry on abusing their wives by telling women that any marriage is better than living alone and not having children, and by refusing to let people divorce.
It has had a major role in the spread of HIV and AIDS in Africa by campaigning against the use of contraception and barring proper sex education and distribution of condoms. It aggressively opposes anti-homophobic legislation and condemns any sex which is not procreative. It has historically prohibited and loudly condemned homosexuality, but until recently priests who raped children were only lightly punished.
I, for one, would consider excommunication from said church a compliment.
It technically does not outlaw non-procreative sex entirely; menopausal women and infertile couples are allowed to have sex as long as they are married. Teeny-tiny nitpicky difference, I know.
I agree with everything else you said!
Well, fortunately I excommunicated myself years ago.
haha, me too, thankfully. and every time stories like this come out, I remember why.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7929712.stm
Update:
"Lula 'rues' Church abortion move"
although I guess it probably doesn't change anything. at least the girl got the medical attention she needed. screw religion.
I just hope that she will be able to have a safe life from now on, but perhaps that's too much.
i hate how this controversy over the abortion is permitting everyone to just ignore that fact that this man RAPED his NINE-YEAR OLD DAUGHTER.
The Catholic church is bull-shit. I went to a Catholic school, as a Mormon, in eighth grade, and I can honestly attest, rather bear-witness, that their whole, entire church is based on in-complete faiths.
For me, life is perfect, everyone is perfect, and it is all interpretation. People will evolve someday and arise to that conscientious level, someday. I am certain of this.
Their would not be cases as such if folks just got it strait, accepted their perfection and in all honesty knew this. Why would anyone want to impregnate a nine-year-old girl if they truly knew they were already perfect?
That is where the churches (Christianity, mainly) got it incorrect. If, we already are like their Christ we would chose perfection, always.
As a mother of a six-year-old boy I give my son the complete and unconditional love he as everyone deserves. Therefore, nothings wrong with him. We take the opportunity to be perfect. It is all interpretation, folks.
what???
Ferrin is saying, essentially, "They should stop being Catholic, come to their senses, and become Mormons."
Ugh. They should just say a big Fuck You and Good Riddance to those ex-communinicating Catholics.
Seriously, Why would anyone still want to belong to a religion that would force them to put their own life at risk rather than commit a "sin"?
If you're going to sign up for a religion that doesn't give a shit about if you die (or would rather you to die than turn your back on the lord), then I would have to say those suicide pact religions would probably be a lot more fun than those stuffy catholics anyways. I'm picturing campfires, sing-a-longs, kool-aid and orgy's. Yeah, I would opt for that one.
Why didn't all the people who opposed the abortion get excommunicated for trying to condemn a little girl to near certain death? Because they were unsuccessful? And if she had died there's a great possibility that the twins would have died too...and then what? Better luck next time? Or would it all have just been part of "god's big plan"?
I seriously do not get religion...
You cant get excommunicated for murder, but you can for abortion, which (erroneously) is considered murder? Yeah, its obvious this is all about controlling females and not even about considering an abortion the same thing as murder.
Having an abortion, or sufficiently assisting someone having an abortion, results in automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication under Roman Catholic cannon law. However, this doesn't apply to people under 16. So it wasn't a decision specific to this case, but an announcement of what had already happened under church law.
And yes, it's fucked up how the Catholic Church views abortion.
Thanks for explaining this. I don't go to church and don't know much about any of their little rules. I was just starting to wonder why the Archbishop would decide it's wrong to excommunicate the girl because of her age, but that factor apparently didn't sway his belief that she should go through with the pregnancy...
This is really the final straw for me. I've been an atheist since I was 11 but raised a Catholic and been through all the sacraments and now I've decided to officially get myself excommunicated.
I'm so relieved to read your comments because sometimes I feel so alone in what I think. Crazy to think that it is the International day of the Woman tomorrow.
I haven't been on Feministing in a while, but I've been following this disgusting, vile story on other sites. I heard today that The Vatican is now supporting the actions of the Brazilian Catholic Church. Fuck them all. Excommunication? From a Church that treats a 9 YEAR OLD RAPE VICTIM like this while saying not a word about the rapist stepfather?? I'd welcome it! I want no part of an any institution or Deity who thinks this way.
Ok i am not going to talk about how unfair the circumstances are of this little girl in comparison to her attacker because it has been covered and i am pissed about that stuff too.
what i find very difficult to understand is how they could possibly excommunicate someone going through a crisis like this. I am catholic born and raised. but the most important part of the entire experience is the community. how in the world a priest can abandon some one after making the decision to have an abortion is beyond me in a normal circumstance. they are there to be guides, teachers, friends, the ones we go to for forgiveness even after we have f***ed up bad. so she decided to ignore him and do it anyways that is when people need love and support the most.
on top of all that by excommunicating them they are also banning any catholic members of the community from talking to or associating with them. so not only are they taking away one strong mentor to help them on the road to recovery they are also taking away a portion of their friends and making their families choose between their religion and their blood. once again how could you do this to a person who has experience such a tragic horrible event.
no matter whether you are traditionalist or feminist a parent's job is to protect their children. forgetting any other decision the mother made this decision was made to protect her child and i support her in that.