Thank you to the late, great Conchita Cintron. As you might guess, I'm not a big bull fight fan (spearing animals=sad to these wimpy urban eyes), but I was totally blown away when reading Ms. Cintrón's obituary a week or so ago in the Times:
A headline in The New York Sun on Sept. 4, 1940, captured accurately, albeit with amused condescension, the startling anomaly embodied by Conchita Cintrón: "She's a Timid Blue Eyed Girl But -- She Kills Bulls Without Qualms."Ms. Cintrón was 18 years old then and, as the headline went on to announce, had never been on a date, but she was already an international star of the bullring, a prodigy who was on her way to becoming perhaps the most celebrated torera in history. She was known as la Diosa Rubia, the Blonde Goddess.
"I have never had any qualms about it," she said of her deadly skill in the article. "A qualm or a cringe before 1,200 pounds of enraged bull would be sure death."
Ms. Cintrón, who retired from bullfighting after having killed as many as 750 bulls in the ring, died in Lisbon on Tuesday. She was 86.
Conchita Cintrón is a hero for any of us forging our own identity, our own work, in male-dominated spaces. She reminds us to depend on our strength--not just of brawn, but of brains and heart--while fighting all the metaphorical bulls (sexist dickheads, economic depression, objectification etc.) in our midst. Ole to that! RIP Conchita.
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I'm no more obligated to admire her than I am to admire Sarah Palin or Phyllis Schlafly. I abhor people who engage in harming animals for sport....period.
Haha now PETA feminists are coming after you, Courtney. LOL.
I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I'm no Petard myself. I just don't approve of bullfighting regardless of the cultural defense that usually gets offered up.
I am in no way associated with PETA. I actually am invovled in the rodeo world and I think that bullfighting is a terrible inhumane event. I have to agree that this is a no thank you.
I would just like to state for the nine-millionth time, that just because someone is vegetarian, vegan and/or a supporter of the animal rights movement doesn't mean that individual necessarily supports PETA. Please don't demean something that I find very important by lumping everyone together under one category that you find ridiculous. Feminists aren't all the same, neither are animal rights supporters.
LOL... you just proved my point.
ummmm, no. that doesn't even make sense.
What?????
Is there even such a thing as a PETA feminist?
Oh look, a woman as admirable as any man in the bullfighting trade: not at all!
And yes, animal torture SO reminds me of my struggles against economic depression and objectification.
NO Thank you, Conchita Citron. She is definitely not my hero. There are so many more deserving women than a person who made her name by slaughtering innocent animals.
Yes, making it in this male-dominated world is rough. Believe me, I know. I was born and raised in Saudi Arabia, global epicenter of misogyny.
But two wrongs do not make a right, as the saying goes.
As women we experience every single day the violence, degradation, and sheer terror that come with living in this violent patriarchy we call earth. So many of us will be killed/abused/raped at the hands of so called loved ones. We women know what it feels like to fight for our lives, to struggle so desperately to be able to live another single day, to tremble in fear at the hands of someone who wields supreme power over us.
Why should we glorify someone who unleashes this mindless, unneccessary, needless, vicious violence on another living thing?
Feministing, I am a long time reader, first time commenter. I normally love your blog but this time you are so, so wrong. As a vegan, and a woman who strives for the liberation of all living creatures, I am extremely upset by this post.
I've been reading feministing for years. I am feminist. I am vegan.
There have been so many posts about how the feminist movement has to be inclusive of other civil rights movements. I honestly don't understand why you felt compelled to make a post glorifying a female bull fighter.
Does this mean we should acknowledge and thank women who participate in dog fighting?
I would like to recommend a book:
The Sexual Politics of Meat: A Feminist-Vegeta?rian Critical Theory
by Carol J. Adams
Please know that feminism and animal rights have a lot in common.
I'm with you guys on the PETA call outs- their advertising techniques are misogynist. I'm worried that many feminists, or at least the bloggers here, are not looking at veganism and animal rights more deeply because of PETA stupidity.
Violence against women is a terrible awful thing.
But what does that have to do with bullfighting?
Ms Cintron was killing CATTLE, not people!
And cattle die every day in the meatpacking plants - and, unlike the bulls Ms Cintron killed, they don't even get a fighting chance!
Yeah, sorry. Can't get on board with this one either.
Note to Brown Trash Punk: Not all animal rights activists are PETA fans or members. Hell, you don't even have to be an animal rights activist to think bullfighting is completely and totally disgusting (as any person who has an ounce of compassion, empathy, and civility would.)
Yeah I'm with you on this one. I'm not an animal rights activist. I abhor PETA for both their campaign and their politics. I am a carnivore. But that doesn't mean I don't abhor certain anti-animal practices, such as bullfighting, dogfighting, animal testing, etc...
Breaking gender barriers by perpetuating barbaric practices does not constitute heroism.
Moreover, it seems more to me that instead of breaking gender barriers she's simply letting herself be co-opted by a masculine-dominated (in both participation, attendance and general attitude) profession.
So if a woman is stepping into a "masculine-dominated" profession, she is being co-opted?
Seems like in this case, yes. I'd argue she was transformed, not the profession.
so what? Women should have the right to perpetuate barbaric practices, too! I'll FIGHT for a woman's right to bullfighting, even if I don't like the sport.
No, what people are very clearly saying here is NOBODY should have the "right" to bullfight. Come on.
Uh YEAH, in this case, bull-fighting is a male dominated sport and Courtney was simply commending a woman for defying gender boundaries in this sport.
I don't like bullfighting, but I can see where Courtney was coming from.
Like I said below, if the sport is banned and BOTH GENDERS are not allowed to participate, that's even better. But because it's not banned and because it's still a male dominated sport, then I will gladly support a woman's RIGHT (or as you quote "right") to participate in the sport, too.
yes, but i'd admire and thank women who demonstrated publicly against bullfighting, breaking quite a few stereotypes, rather than perpetuate the practice.
i think conshita cintron would've been a great topic for discussing feminism and what it means to be radical, and the positives and negatives of her life, but to give her a THANK YOU THURSDAY just ain't right!
ugh, i meant conchita cintron. clearly being a feminist doesn't mean being a good typist.
This seems like a pretty hypocritical stance. If you're against bullfighting why would you support someone doing it just because it breaks the established male-dominance of the "sport"?
Genocide has a pretty solid history of male dominance too, but if a woman goes gangbusters in that field is she somehow elevated to the role of "heroine"?
Okay, so you're comparing bullfighting to GENOCIDE? Haha, ooookay. Let me guess, you would also be against female soldiers, female sergeants, or female gangsters?
News flash: women have the RIGHT to participate in anything as men, even partaking in a so-called "genocide" event as you call it. Heroic or not, it's good to see women breaking the MALE DOMINANCE of anything out there.
No one is saying that women don't have the right to be as hideously violent as men; we're saying that no one should have that right. Very important difference there.
Now please go troll somewhere else.
Uh, I'm not trolling. I've been commenting here for months and I have the right to express my opinion here.
I'm just saying that if men can participate in violent sports, then women should have the RIGHT to participate in them, too. If the sport is banned and both genders aren't allowed to do it, then that's even better.
Yeah I don't agree with her but I can understand the viewpoint. Healthy debate over these things is good.
Brown Trash Punk is not a troll. She's a regular commenter here.
thank you!
No I'm saying that it's hypocritical to say a thing is bad, but that someone doing this bad thing is a hero because they did it first or in some new way.
I actually posited no opinion on bullfighting. Re-read my post if you think I did.
Fair enough. But no one is saying she shouldn't have had the right to bullfight because she is a woman. People are just expressing their disgust about the practice in general and in her in particular because of her involvement in the practice. She is not being targeted here because she was a woman bullfighter but because she was a bullfighter and the one that we are discussing in particular because of the blog post.
It's a strawman to say that anyone here is arguing that women do not have the right to bullfight any more than anyone else.
Torturing our fellow creatures for sport isn't very nice, but humans aren't very nice creatures living in a happy rainbow sunshine world.
I can respect her for defying authority and doing what she was raised to do, even if I can't agree with where that turned out.
As I read this, Courtney isn't heralding Ms. Cintron for her bullfighting, but for her defiance of gender stereotypes (in the 1940's no less). She stepped into a world of bravery and bravado- qualities she was likely told were inappropriate for a woman to embody, and for that, I say good for her.
I too abhor bullfighting- I see it as senseless, selfish, brutal mistreatment of animals. But I'm not willing to dismiss this woman's role in female empowerment just because I (strongly) disagree with her on animal rights. They're two different issues, and like it or not, progress comes staggeringly. I'll celebrate the small steps as I see them.
It absolutely shocks me to hear you say that women's rights and animal rights are two different issues, just as it shocks me when PETA objectifies women. Every living thing on this Earth is in a struggle for rights and respect, and we only hurt ourselves by hurting others. Sorry if that sounds too hippie-dippy for you, but it's the painful truth. Torturing a sentient being for entertainment is not okay or in any way progressive, ever, regardless of who's doing the torture. It only serves our quest for equality if we're seeking to be as barbaric as certain men. This isn't a fight for who can be equally awful. It's a fight to be equally good.
Sorry, but I don't see women's rights the same as animal rights. Not all of us feminists share the same beliefs as you do.
Wait, since when do you speak for "all of us feminists"?
People have different opinions, as you yourself just said. So perhaps you should try to respect the opinions of others even if you don't agree with them.
Umm, she wasn't speaking for "all of us feminists," she was clearly speaking for "not all of us feminists." Not all feminists have the same viewpoints on animal rights, as BTP says. I'm sure you agree.
Um... no. I won't say she wasn't a strong woman who excelled in a male-dominated arena, but I also wouldn't hail her as a feminist icon. Her success was built on the corpses of 750 bulls.
In addition to my above comment I would just like to add the following:
Average people like to stereotype all progressives as feminazi vegetarians.
As a feminist vegetarian, I wish that were really the case. It's shocking to me-- and would certainly be shocking to our ignorant critics-- to watch feminists and animal rights activists ignore and oppress each other. It really makes no sense.
How in your opinion are feminists oppressing animal rights activists? I understand that, from an animal rights activists' perspective, feminists may be oppressing animals, but I'm not seeing how they oppress the activists themselves.
EGhead said "ignore and oppress each other," which implies that it goes both ways. As a variety of threads on feministing have indicated, some feminists are very uncomfortable with the animal rights movement and this sometimes manifests as dismissive-ness or anger. And organizations like PETA have plenty of issues.
I am well familiar with the discomfort, dismissals and anger (more on the first two than the last one, actually). I asked for clarification of how feminists oppress animal rights activists, as I haven't witnessed it and am curious as to how how EGhead has seen it manifest itself.
And yes, I know that EGhead suggested it went both ways, as you reiterate. However, as I'm not too familiar with the animal rights movement, I would have no idea whether or not its activists oppress feminists. I'm curious about the other side because, well, I'm much more exposed to feminism.
But let's not confuse dismissiveness, discomfort or "issues" with oppression.
I'm not too big on this particular Thank You Thursday either. The views being expressed here are revealing though- the two camps of thinking: Women breaking barriers regardless of what it is in = good VS those who think WHAT the barrier is matters. It kind of comes down to what means justice; reforming the system that exists, i.e. women in bullfighting, or creating an entirely new system, one where bullfighting does not exist at all.
Personally, I fall into the "create a whole new system" thinking- bullfighting should not exist at all. I think this post is a lot bigger than an animal rights vs. womens rights debate. It is challenging us to define what we mean when we say "equality."
I can't believe I hadn't heard of her! I poked around on the internet and found the story of a fight near the end of her career:
"In Spain, in 1949, Conchita Cintrón was at the centre of one of the most dramatic moments in bullfighting history, when she approached the president’s box and asked permission to break the Spanish law that forbids a woman from dismounting from her horse and fighting the bull on foot. Her request was refused.
Despite this rebuff, she dismounted, and rushed the unsuspecting young understudy assigned to kill her bull, grabbing his sword and preparing for the kill. Then she dramatically let the sword drop to the sand. When the bull charged, Conchita Cintrón simulated the kill by stroking the beast on the shoulders as it thundered by.
As the cheering audience erupted she walked calmly away, only to be arrested at the ringside; but with the crowd about to riot in protest, she was pardoned and released."
Oh geez, I know I'm a softy, but that is making me all teary and stuff.
(Quote taken from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/4807388/Conchita-Cintron.html_
Thank you laughingrat for posting that bit of history!
I fully support this Thank you Thursday entry.
While I would never be able to watch a bullfight, I admire the late Conchita Cintron for her stamina and dedication. Not only against a raging animal, but against a raging country and culture.
"Then she dramatically let the sword drop to the sand. When the bull charged, Conchita Cintrón simulated the kill by stroking the beast on the shoulders as it thundered by."
On at least one occasion she broke with tradition to prove her self-worth and showed a mercy that men would not have had to conceive. The talent of a simulated kill is not only spectacular, but above and beyond what many of her male counterparts would have had the cajones to do.
GRACIAS Conchita!
kylljoi: Would you celebrate a serial rapist who on one occasion showed "mercy" to one of his potential victims by stroking her and then letting her go? I don't think you would. Then why celebrate this serial killer of animals? Is it because she was a pioneer for women's participation in a field dominated by men? In that case, can we look forward to Thank You Thursdays pieces on Ilse Koch, the "Witch of Buchenwald", or Ieng Thirith, currently under indictment for genocide in Cambodia?
I recommend the work of Carol J. Adams for insight into the connection between the denigration of animals and the denigration of women. But even apart from that connection, human beings need to wake up to the fact that every sentient non-human being, by virtue of having a life that matters to him or her, is morally entitled to be treated with respect -- i.e., never to be used merely as means to human ends.
Bullfighting is a horrible practice, an act that exemplifies our culture's patriarchal necessity to oppress animals for entertainment. It's abhorrent, as I see it.
Was she able to surpass her male counterparts? Of course. There's something to be said for that, but I could only see her as a "hero" if she did it for the betterment of life. I think the author was just trying to point out that she was strong in a time when women weren't supposed to be strong, and I'd agree (...not to say that it doesn't apply today as well); however, I believe her strength was misguided.
(As a side note, has anyone read "The Sexual Politics of Meat"? I don't agree with everything in it, but it accurately points out the link between the oppression of animals and the oppression of women. This article and the reactions to it touch on that in some ways...)
Don't kill me, I swear I don't support PETA, I just think women should be seen as "heroes" for truly heroic actions.
What's "patriarchal" about killing animals?
Unless you subscribe to the sexist, misogynist theory that only men are supposed to kill and eat meat bearing animals, of course.
If women can eat beef, why can't they kill cattle?
I for one feel that a sport that involves the violent killing of animals with a sense of 'victory' over killing whatever was killed is nothing to be celebrated. Hunters who kill for food? Okay. Bullfighters and hunters who mount as many deer heads on their wall as they can? Not so much.
I also feel like this killing animals for fun is a patriarchal creation. So, Conchita participated in a patriarchal sport. In a way, she helped upkeep the oppressive, violent patriarchy. This, I give no one credit for. She broke barriers, good for her. Would we cheer if all of a sudden there were as many women killing and raping other people in America? Remember, killing and raping is committed mostly by men. Does that mean that women being able to compete with men in this area is good? No. At the end of the day, she still took sport in shoving multiple spears into bulls. She didn't even give them a quick death, and entertained others and, I assuming, herself while doing it.
Aren't you promoting the patriarchal myth that women are peaceful placid creatures incapable of violence, and only men are allowed to be violent?
It sure sounds like that to me!
no, she absolutely did not even hint that women are peaceful or placid creatures. partaking in cruel and oppressive practices is a reflection of patriarchal structures which rely on oppressing certain groups of people and certain qualities that are socially associated with oppressed people. both women and men who are doing such things for enjoyment, profit or showing off are perpetuating inequalities.
while i appreciate anyone's interest in feminism, asking questions and challenging beliefs, you seem to have no idea about social inequalities or feminism.
No, Brown Trash Punk isn't a hypocrite or a troll. She's simply standing by that heroic old American legal/military adage of "I might not believe in what you're doing, but I'll fight to the death for your right to do it."
Personally, I think this is a refreshing concept compared to the kind of thinking that brings us "conscience clauses," such as the one created by the Bush administration allowing medical personnel to refuse -- without apology or courtesy -- to dispense birth control at pharmacies just because they "don't believe" in contraception.
No, BROWN TRASH PUNK!, is not pulling the good old New Hampshire "live free or die" she (presumably female poster) said "Haha now PETA feminists are coming after you, Courtney. LOL." She was being purposefully inflammatory then backpedaling to not sound like a total jerk. I call bs.
Yeah I'ma have to say ba-nay-nay to this Thank You.
Thumbs down. That obituary was nothing special, and the whole bullfighting thing is stomach turning.
R.I.P ..... to the BULLS!
She'd better hope there isn't an afterlife with thousands of angry bulls waiting for her.
Okay, I totally think this woman was bad ass.
I think the historical context of a) bull-fighting and b) her position is being lost upon some. Should we celebrate her for doing something bad? No. But I can value bull-fighting within different time periods and cultures in different ways.
I have to say I'm surprised that feminists, who can be open minded about things such as sex trade, can't see the value in this woman's life.
Good for Conchita Cintron for breaking into a male dominated profession. As a feminist I appreciate that.
As a vegetarian (not assosciated or supportive of PETA, thank you) and as a compassionate individual, shame on anyone for participating or supporting such a brutal sport. She claims she had no "qualms" about killing bulls, because if you hesitate you die. Yeah, it's totally about self defense when you put a bull in an enclosed space with yourself and poke it until it's really pissed.
Yes, it was a different time, but her logic there is really twisted.
And this is why women will never win. The men don't want them there and the feminists/progressives are too concerned about demonizing the institutions to support the women trying to break into the institutions.
Hmmm...change "demonizing" to "critiquing"
So feminists should have one track minds and only criticize patriarchy? There are lots of things in this world that need correcting. Saying bullfighting is wrong really has nothing to do with keeping women out of men's way. It's about cruelty to bulls.
I don't like bullfighting all too much - I don't really watch it often anyway, but she was trying to break the gender barrier in something, and I'm happy she did that. Her loss is sad.
And aren't bulls usually eaten after a fight? At least in Portuguese style? Sometimes, in rare cases, the bulls aren't killed and actually heal over time, and are eventually put into breeding. I rather see a bullfight than a videotape of an infected cow hanging from a rope waiting to be slaughtered, possibly even more inhumanely.
this woman broke a mold. in her time. why is PETA even a part of this discussion? are we really that privileged? is everybody really that blind to herstory(history). to bring in values of this era and apply them to the 1940's is asinine. in her era she fought off(bad pun)societal influence, ignored tradition, ignored the (then)modern day teaching, and took her own way. isn't that part of the feminist principle? no, bullfighting is not what i would consider a sport or even humane but i don't live in 1940's spain either.
thank you laughingrat, her bravery brought a tear to my eye as well.
would you say the same for white mistresses in the 1800s who "broke" their slaves
your equating slaves and bulls?
think about it this way: playboy and girls gone wild have female directors. golda meir and margaret thatcher were women. ann coulter breaks female stereotypes at the expense of women, animals and the environment.
i'm not saying these women are imitating masculinity or not being "true" women. but these women have gained success because their "masculine" traits of oppressing others is valued by patriarchy. their success perpetuate oppression more than they challenge them.
i used to be in the school of thought that women have right to oppress others as much as men. but then i realized that valuing traditionally "masculine" or patriarchal values over "feminine" values does as much damage as valuing men over women.
also, ending oppression requires oppressors to give up their privileges, so if feminists can't give up the privilege of animal cruelty and exploitation and environmental exploitation, then it would be hypocritical of us to demand men, rich or whites to give up their privileges.
You seem to have a very sexist view of the world - "men" think one way, "women" think another way, there are rigidly defined "masculine" and "feminine" values, and it's wrong for anybody to cross those boundaries.
You're views on gender are almost as bad as the god damned fundies!
How exactly are violence, oppression, or the killing of animals "masculine" - except to the extent that male chauvinistic men have blocked women from participating in those activities?
"Equality" means that women get to participate in ALL aspects of society - including being bullfighters, or combat infantry troops, or police officers, or investment bankers, or torturers in CIA "black site" detention facilities.
There is nothing innately "masculine" in any of those activities - and the only "patriarchal" thing about any of that is when women are barred from participating in those activities solely because of gender.
i'm not sure you understand this blog or feminism at all.
i definitely don't think there are innate masculine or feminine traits, which is why i put them in quotation marks, and tried to use the full term - traditionally masculine or feminine - in my response.
traditionally masculine or feminine refers to the qualities which society considers to be masculine or feminine, not the reality of men and women and definitely not innate.
your comments, in some other posts too, portray a total lack of knowledge about the language feminism and the beliefs of feminism. you seem to ask very gullible and obtuse questions.
you think if i believed in innate gender traits i'd the posting in feministing?
Epic Fail on this Thank You Thursday.
Proving you can be as cruel and heartless as a man is not a positive feminist trait.
Yes, because ALL men are bloodthirsty savages that enjoy and wish to participate in bullfighting?? The cruel and heartless genes are inherent in men or something? What on earth are you trying to say?
Seriously, that last statement- fail.
OBVIOUSLY this was in context to bullfighting being cruel and a woman bullfighting is no less gruesome or cruel than a man doing it. Jesus christ. Way to take something totally out of context and play the man-hater card.
Actually, this Thank You Friday, and Conchita Cintron, pulled off an EPIC WIN - by proving that women can do anything men can, including bullfighting.
And considering that Portugal was a fascist dictatorship at the time Ms Cintron entered the ring, where any dissent against the government could get you put straight into the torture chambers of the Portuguese secret police, it was all the more heroic that she took a stand against sexism in her country!
I wish people would see how oppression of one group is oppression for all.
Celebrating violence and murder -- whether they be done to a bull or to a woman -- is disgusting.
it is certainly admirable for women or minorities to enter male dominated/white dominated/heterosexist professions, especially if they break unequal laws. i'd use conchita cintron's example to show that there isn't any one type of woman and to challenge stereotypes. but i'm not sure whether i'd be proud of her as a feminist.
i think about how medicine has been a male dominated field and still is for many specialties, but would we respect female OB/GYNs who perpetuate the incorrect and harmful assumptions about women's physiology and anatomy? it's really not that radical unless women enter male dominated fields and change it somewhat for society.
This is awesome. She definitely has my respect and admiration. I hope to be as brave as her in my life.
750 bulls dead?
not my hero.
just found this. wish i hadn't. celebrating cruelty and killing for sport, on feministing? disgusting.