If you didn't see our last post on Courtney taking on Bill O'Reilly, here's the short version: O'Reilly called C a hypocrite for taking him to task for sexist comments against Helen Thomas while not defending Sarah Palin back in the day. (Uh, yeah.)
Wait for the last sentence of the segment: "You did not defend [Sarah Palin] in public and if you can show me where you did - tomorrow I will apologize to you."
Not only did Courtney write about sexism against Palin, she called O'Reilly himself out for it!
Well, Bill - we'll be watching with bated breath tonight!
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Good for you Courtney! I don't know if I would have been able to keep my calm with O'Reilly because just watching that enrages me. But great job Courtney! You really were courageous and I think you are very smart and not at all "being used".
I will be so happy if Olbermann names Billo worst person in the world for this. *crosses fingers*
you got your wish! he was the "worser" person tonight for his b.s.! woooooohooo
What I love is how right under her name is the word Feminist. Not "representative of Women's Media Group", "Blogger", "Journalist" or anything else. No, it says "Feminist" which will already make O'reilly's target audience start booing and hissing at the screen.
Then he doesn't let her talk and tells her what her goals are and how she's "being used".
There's no way I could have kept my composure in that situation.
Also, Bill needs to understand that difference between SNL and his show, is that he's supposed to be a news show, and SNL is a satire/parody sketch comedy show. Tina Fey didn't make fun of Sarah Palin's clothing, hair, or voice, she exaggerated Palin's politics and talking style to be comical. O'reilly compared Helen Thomas to the wicked witch of the east. Oh sorry, he compared her voice to the wicked witch of the east, transcripts show it and everything!
Alright, I don't want everyone to start freaking out on my ass, but to some degree I believe Bill has a point. First of all to clear things up, I do not believe he was right and he did make sexist remarks about Helen Thomas. BUT, his point about Sarah Palin being mocked on SNL actually did make me think twice. We could debate back and forth that SNL is comedy and that he is suppose to be having a "news" program, but to be honest in today's media culture shows like SNL have significant influence on the population at large.
If you have ever asked someone ( especially younger adults) who they would vote for and why, something tells me that you could have got (sadly) a typical response. The basis of their argument is that the other candidate is dumb, ugly or some other closely related statement. And why is this? Because shows like SNL DO influence our culture.
In that case I do believe Bill O'Riley had a point. Women’s groups did not really want to protect Sarah Palin because she is a Republican and is a self-proclaimed "hockey mom". She got beaten down by the media for being a "mother" and wanting to be vice president. They made fun of the way she looked, spoke and dressed; whether or not I agree with her politics I feel bad for her. As a feminist I thought we were suppose to value all women and not just the ones with our same political agenda.
At the same time, YES Bill O’Riley is an asshole
But SNL didn't make sexist comments about Sarah Palin...at least not in the (admittedly few) sketches I watched. They made fun of her for not putting thought into her speeches. As a feminist, I don't feel a need to protect a woman just because she's dumb. Only if people assume she's dumb because she's a woman.
In fact, one of SNL's skits with Sarah Palin addressed the very issue of sexism concerning her and Hilary Clinton.
So I don't think SNL is comparable to O'Reily.
the clip you are refering to I also saw, and yes besides mocking her voice ( similar to bill's mocking helen's) it just reinforced the stereotype that the pretty one is dumb and the unattractive one is smart. ( Sarah Palin may not be a good speaker, but I would not call her dumb)
and when i compare SNL to Bill O'Riley I am not talking about everyone and for the most part just people under the age of 25. I happen to be under that age and you would be surprised at the amount of people I know that use shows like SNL to base their political decisions and do not watch CNN, Fox and whatever other news station.
One important point Courtney and you miss is that SNL also made fun of Hillary. Media Matters didnt defend her either.
Alright, I don't want everyone to start freaking out on my ass, but to some degree I believe Bill has a point. First of all to clear things up, I do not believe he was right and he did make sexist remarks about Helen Thomas. BUT, his point about Sarah Palin being mocked on SNL actually did make me think twice. We could debate back and forth that SNL is comedy and that he is suppose to be having a "news" program, but to be honest in today's media culture shows like SNL have significant influence on the population at large.
If you have ever asked someone ( especially younger adults) who they would vote for and why, something tells me that you could have got (sadly) a typical response. The basis of their argument is that the other candidate is dumb, ugly or some other closely related statement. And why is this? Because shows like SNL DO influence our culture.
In that case I do believe Bill O'Riley had a point. Women’s groups did not really want to protect Sarah Palin because she is a Republican and is a self-proclaimed "hockey mom". She got beaten down by the media for being a "mother" and wanting to be vice president. They made fun of the way she looked, spoke and dressed; whether or not I agree with her politics I feel bad for her. As a feminist I thought we were suppose to value all women and not just the ones with our same political agenda.
At the same time, YES Bill O’Riley is an asshole
"You are a very courageous woman."
Wow. What a backhanded compliment. Of course a poor, defenseless woman would have to be brave to go up against big bad Bill O'Reilly! He managed to compliment himself and demean Courtney's appearance on the show in the same breath. He never seems to quit, does he?
But, well done, Courtney!
Billo's got nothing on my scary conservative grandpa. He just THINKS he's super intimidating to young women.
Also, did I detect a threatening note in his, "WE GOOOOOOGLED YOU!"?
Yes, you did detect a threatening note. That shit literally whipped shivers up my back.
I just love that he felt that because his team Googled her they had done the most thorough research on her they possibly could.
Perhaps, but Bill O Reily has a reputation for being forceful and rowdy, which is why it takes guts for anyone to come on his show.
If you've ever seen him in person, he does have an intimidating stature.
Fair enough. I've never seen him in person, but I can certainly understand that reputation. But more to the point: Do you think O'Reilly would ever say "You're a very courageous man" to a male who appeared on his show and called him out like Courtney did? It came across as a very condescending and sexist comment to me. I don't watch enough O'Reilly to know the answer to that question. What do you think?
Yeah, he's complimented men on coming on his show before. I don't think he said that because Courtney is a woman, but because their views are so different.
I don't know how she managed to keep her cool and not slug him in his smug face. Olbermann, have at 'im!
Why the hell does this moron even interview people if he interrupts them every time they speak up?
re: "we're running out of ists!" - lmfao. Anyone but this insane piece of human waste would recognize that the reason he's been called every ist in the book is because HE IS EVERY IST IN THE GODDAMN BOOK. (and a liar, to boot.)
I also noticed a bizarre contorsion of logic that's a common thread with conservative cranky douchebags, that misogyny / racism / homophobia can only exist in *direly serious doses.* Like, the most bigoted comments in the world aren't bigoted if the speaker is joking. Do these people really think a joke can't be racist, sexist, or homophobic? No wonder they can defend their asshattery with such a straight face.
Not to mention, you're blocking their right to free speech by telling them they aren't allowed to say hate-filled, marginalizing words. Funny how some people who will fight tooth and nail for their 'freedom of speech' only do so to ensure they don't get reprimanded for spreading hate and ad hominem arguments.
More to the point, Lillith, they think you're trouncing on free speech simply for calling them out for saying irresponsible things. Never did Courtney suggest that O'Reilly should have his show taken off the air or any such thing... she simply was responding to something he said...
But, apparently, talking back == censorship in small minds. Perplexing.
It takes a LOT for me to sit through 9 minutes of Bill O'Reilly, which goes to show just how much I love Courtney.
You are the shit, girl. You are completely amazing. And words cannot express what a giant, steaming turd O'Reilly is. Seriously, what is the matter with him?! I think it's pretty significant that O'Reilly spent a good majority of the conversation nitpicking about what he "can" and "can't" say, with the concern obviously focused entirely on not having to be held accountable for being a total prick, as well as the audacity of people who request that he exercise an iota of decorum and journalistic integrity. He's not inquiring about what he "can" and "can't" say because he actually wants to contribute to intelligent national conversation and, you know, not offend the hell out of everyone - he just wants to be able to say whatever the hell pops into his privileged little head without having to take any responsibility whatsoever (although when he's called out on that bullshit, it does give him "permission" to blather on about political correctness for 45 fucking minutes). I mean, he's literally indignant at the idea that "poking fun" (whatever) at a woman's voice and appearance on a NEWS program is irrelevant, mean-spirited, and unnecessary...and they say chicks are catty!
What a blindly entitled individual.
One of the most offensive parts of this to me was this self-important fuck's patronizing admissions of "respect" for Courtney, which clearly has nothing to do with actual respect for her (which he damn well should have), but the fact that he fancies himself a big, scawwwy guy who will obviously win every argument because he's just. that. smart. - though he doesn't even know how to use Google - and any person "brave" enough to duke it out with him deserves a pat on the back (and then having their mic cut off) because it's like bringing a knife to a gun fight.
News flash, Bill O: you're just not that smart. And cuing the exit music early doesn't mean you "won."
Go fuck yourself, you sad little man. Courtney, you're my hero. These are for you:
http://leftwingconspiracy.com/2008/09/08/self-control/
http://www.connietalk.com/o_reilly_Factor.jpg
http://obamiconme.pastemagazine.com/entries/474743-falafel.html
xoxo,
Kendall
I have to wonder, when are we going to reach the point when Bill O'Reilly isn't taken seriously by liberals and feminists anymore? The amount of bullshit he spews on a daily basis is downright astonishing. He's so far removed from reality he's living in another dimension, which apparently is completely impenetrable to logical reasoning and accuracy. Constructive criticism only fuels his and his audience's persecution complex (and provides material for a significant part of his rants). He also gets completely undeserved credibility when intelligent people try to engage in discussions with him. It suggests that he's actually capable of having a discussion (which he's not).
I don't think he's taken seriously by liberals or feminists; we've been at that point for some time now. The question is, when will people who don't identify as liberals and/or feminists stop listening to his bullshit? If any piece of constructive criticism, like Courtney's appearance, helps sow a seed of doubt in a Fox News watcher, then some bit of progress has been made.
That being said, I'm not holding my breath for an apology. ;)
...anymore?
I just like his whole approach to fact-finding in general. "NO, FUCK YOU. I AM RIGHT, AND IF YOU WANT TO PROVE OTHERWISE THEN YOU'LL JUST HAVE TO DO MY READING FOR ME AND SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS. And I'll try to squeeze in a mention tomorrow if I still have time after the gangs-of-pink-gun-wielding-lesbians story. Wait'll you hear this thing."
He's such a dick. It's been a long time since I've watched his show, so I'm used to only seeing clips when he's done something truly, outstandingly awful. So it's nice to be assured that on the day-to-day stuff, like interviews with "courageous" little ladies from "women's groups" who are too full of fancy talk about "stereotypes" to realize that they're just being used, you poor confused little thing, he's still able to work himself into just as much of a self-righteous rage as over the big-ticket items. Jackass.
You did a good job. I'm impressed.
You know, even when it's not Bill O'Reilly, this sort of pained conversation about feminism and sexism comes up all the time our regular lives. I'd like to see some sort of guide or training for feminists about how to move through these conversations with calmness and clarity so we can be effective advocates in the off-air world as well.
That's totally what I've been thinking!! I am definitely not smart/prepared/learned enough to do it myself, but if I could, I'd write a book on how to argue points from a feminist perspective.
Or at least a list of the most common anti-feminist or anti-woman arguments and the most effective ways to debate them. These come up all the time in real life and I'm often at a loss...
Of course, reading feminist blogs like this one are *G*R*E*A*T* at teaching one some pointers! I know I've been learning tons just by reading others' comments who obviously have a much more educated perspective than I. So, if nothing else, I'm definitely gonna be continuing to read mah blogs!
Word-geek love to you for spelling and using "bated breath" correctly!
Email sent to O'Reilly, along with a reminder that he never apologized for the "Malmady" kerfuffle, so don't get your hopes up Courtney.
Plus I recommended he hire at least one competent researcher to save himself looking like an ass.
Ok, I don't think that will help.
Never thought I'd say this, but I'm looking forward to the O'reilly factor tonight.
I noticed that the Huffington Post picked up on this story today. Unfortunately, they mentioned O'Reilly's promise to apologize if women's groups did speak up about Palin sexism, but not the fact that Courtney herself called out Bill-O during the campaign.
Read the comments over there at your own risk. Wowzers!
She did great! If he apologizes, someone had best get that on tape ;P Also, to further what a prior commenter said regarding his backhanded compliment of calling her "courageous" (which I do think she is regardless of his tone, since anyone with a polar opposite view from O'Reilly who has enough strength to go on his show and defend their view is courageous as far as I'm concerned), I found his entire manner of speaking especially the last minute to be incredibly condescending. I felt like I was watching a father lecture his daughter about how she needs to reexamine her life and go get a "real job" if she can't pay the bills right now. Or, to go further back into a girl's life, perhaps even a middle school daughter and her father talking. "Those friends of yours are no good! They aren't defending the right people! I'm daddy and I know best, and I know you should make new friends and drop those sluts you hang around now!"
What really aggravated me was his accusations that Courtney was being "used by" the left. Did it ever occur to him that she develops her own opinions and analysis, all on her own, and that she IS the left?
A woman? Coming up with her own opinions and thoughts? No. Must be she's being used by the left. The men do the thinking in this country and control the women-folk.
This is a prime example of how folks like Big Pappa O work: They say racist/sexist things, then wear you out splitting finer and finer hairs explaining why what they said wasn't really whatever it was. They can keep it up as long as you can, and the longer they can keep stringing you along, the more they and their doofus fans enjoy themselves.
IMO, this was a do-not-feed situation.
Courtney, I need to know how you managed to keep a straight face through the interview because the nonsense coming out of that man's mouth is HILARIOUS. How could you not just laugh in his face?
Also, I am super jealous that you actually got to have "FEMINIST" under your name on the TV. I'd pay for that kind of honor! :)
OMG how did you ever keep you cool??? I was fuming just watching that for 9 minutes!! He invites you on the show, then doesn't let you complete a whole sentence more than once! Did he just need someone to verbally abuse? And also, since he kept bringing up Saturday Night Live, are we to assume that we should all take his show just as seriously as SNL? I love how he never mentioned the NUMEROUS times Palin came up on Colbert or Daily Show, because, well, they are better journalists than he is.
His tone was SOOO patronizing..."you silly little girl..." they are just "using you!" Why does his show even exist? I've never heard him add anything worth thinking about to the conversation. Thank you Courtney, for inspiring me to keep pounding away on this keyboard and calling out this ridiculous shit that passes as news.
You weren't a racist last week and a sexist this week, Billo. You were always that way and probably always will be.
"If I were President Obama, I would have poured water on her, and she'd dissolve." Sounds like calling someone a witch to me. Maybe if he had a transcript, he wouldn't have made that mistake. But full transcripts of his TV and radio shows aren't available. Maybe that's why Media Matters needs to quote him, since FOX doesn't keep record of anything he says.
I've always been able to find full transcripts of Hardball and Countdown, and I think it shows that Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann subject themselves to more scrutiny from their viewers and listeners. With O'Reilly, journalists and bloggers have to say, "What stupid thing did he say again? Let me check. Oh, wait. I can't." Matthews and Olbermann are vulnerable to the outrage of the public because their transcripts are easily available and can be quoted in a second, and O'Reilly has the luxury of the public being unsure of exactly what idiotic thing he said the night before. O'Reilly doesn't even seem to remember the things he says. Unfortunately for him, someone else, namely Media Matters, is taking notes. So O'Reilly can argue that Media Matters is partisan all he wants. They're still accurately quoting him. And if he's going to accuse Media Matters of not accurately quoting him, he might want to put the transcripts and videos of his shows on his site so that media outlets and bloggers can go straight to the source.
Thank you for doing this. You did a great job keeping calm and getting your message across while that old fool made himself look even worse than he usually does. Congrats!
WOW...I don't know how you kept your cool. He tried to bully you and force his opinions and you didn't back down. If I were Sarah Palin I'd be nervous about his fascination. It boarders on creepy. Also obviously he didn't google you will enough because feministing was vocal about calling out sexism aimed at Sarah Palin.
Someone should point out to him that an appropriate coorelation to Tina Fey's impersonation of Sarah Palin would not be his commentary on his "news" program ... it would actually be something like Amy Poehler's impersonation of Hillary Clinton, which (and I might be wrong) I don't recall Courtney criticizing.
Bill O'Reilly has no right to call anyone a hypocrite seeing as he's one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever seen.
Did anyone else see Jon Stewart's recent segment on his hypocritical stance on pavarazzi(sorry for spelling)?
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=217706&title=bill-oreillys-right-to-privacy
Honestly what would have been the best response to his nattering about SNL would have been to look him in the eye and say, "So, what you're saying is that we should take you about as seriously as we take SNL?"
my favorites were the constant interjections of "so i can't make fun of her VOICE sounding like a witch!? so i can't make fun of her for being OLD!?"
yeah. no bill, if we're still playing journalism (that's the closest word i got for this and i use it loosely) you can't. sorry.
Ok I really really just have to say one thing. Helen Thomas' question was not about whether or not the Taliban was in Pakistan. It was whether the government of Pakistan was maintaining safe spots for them.
I'm sure you people all figured that one out. It was just really bugging me.
And I apologize but I couldn't even watch it all. Courtney you did an amazing job but I think Bill is just as dumb as a brick. He makes me really really angry. What makes me more angry is that there are people who watch and believe the word vomit that spews from his mouth.
COURTNEY = MY HERO
I watched this just now. I thought you were fantastic. I struggled with how to describe Bill O'Reilly and could only come to the conclusion that Bill O'Reilly is a bollex. He's Irish American, he'll know what that is.
Courtney I could never have kept my cool like you did. Well done. What a verbal bully he is...
Amazing job Courtney! Just watching that made my blood boil, but you totally maintained your composure.
(1)Courtney, that was awesome!
(2)what's the link and Bill's e-mail? When should we start mail-bombing him for an apology?
I think we should link the above post with all the nasty emails Courtney received, make him realize that his audience is basically proving Courtney's point 1000 time over
O'Reilly brings liberals on his show for the sake of yelling at them, interrupting them, and talking over them. He brings them on his talk show to prove his "correctness" by not allowing any other point of view on the table but his own. He is a little boy plugging his ears and saying "La la la! I can't hear you!I refuse to face reality!" The same can be said for Rush Limbutt.
What a stupid paternalistic asshole. Does he need to emphasize three more times what a "courageous woman" she is? HEAVEN FORBID some relatively young WOMAN try to take on the blathering, accusatory O'Reilly.
This guy needs to go to hell. And Courtney did awesome. Seriously, half of the shit he says on any given show is irrelevant, misleading propaganda, and it's too bad more of his guests don't point this out.
So, do we have an update??? Did anyone watch The show last night and hear him mention anything about an apology? I'm just curious. But believe me, I'm not holding my breath!
Does he not know that SNL is a comedy show and makes fun of everyone, and that he is supposed to be a journalist?
I love how Courtney's title was "Feminist", like we are unicorns or something.
Billo invites people on and talks over them, and criticizes those who DON'T come on because they don't want it to be talked over.
I think that Bill O'Riley has forgotten what real women look like. Helen Thomas is a beautiful older woman in an age when all our older women are getting botox and face lifts. I thank Helen Thomas for being an amazing journalist, unabashed liberal, and a beautiful natural woman. Thank you Courtney for standing up for women everywhere. We cannot continue to sit by while women are judged for not conforming to impossible standards and while women's careers are forgotten or glossed over.
Also Bill, Courtney reported on sexism against Sarah Palin almost every single day of the campaign. "Oh really, O'Riley?"
I think it's funny that HE's the one who compared his "news" show to Saturday Night Live, a show explicitly about comedy, parody, and satire!
O'reilly's treatment of a liberal woman is right or wrong depending on how SNL treats a conservative woman?
Big ups to you, Courtney. "Are you going to let me talk?" was my favorite part. I doubt he'll actually own up to his mistake, since he doesn't seem to think he made one, but I'm glad you got the message out anyway. Hopefully some of the people watching can grok the distinction between criticizing someone professionally and attacking them personally.
O'Reilly is such a liar. "I didn't call her a witch." It's on fucking tape! They recorded him saying it. He does this all the time, people are always calling him out on it. I think he's pathological or something in his lying.
He's not a nice guy either. I think he's a sorry excuse for a human being and I pity him.
PS. The United States *is* responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.
I remember all of those posts! It was the Palin Sexism watch for goodness sake!
But...I don't really understand the point of going on the O'Reilly Factor. I mean, you know going into it that he's a know-nothing loud mouth who just yells at people who disagree & cuts their mics when they make points against them & calls anyone with independent thought a traitor to the nation. Going on that show is like validating him and everything that's wrong with American media. It's like trying to resolve a relationship problem by going on Jerry Springer together!
There are some people that are just not worth engaging. Out of self-respect & just having better things to do, you know? I really don't get it. I don't see the point.