Lauren had an understandably strong reaction to Courtney's post last week about her daily schedule. In a follow-up post, Lauren described her own work life -- and the economic situation surrounding her -- and wrote:
The other day, when I wrote, "a room of one's own is a privilege most of us don't -- and won't ever -- have," I wasn't trying to score some dramatic rhetorical point, or punish a successful person for being happy or having fulfilling work. In today's economic hierarchy some of us will be stuck on Maslow's lower rungs while others celebrate their own impending self-actualization -- this isn't a debate. But only one of these climbers gets the microphone.
She takes this a step further -- asking how, as the feminist blogosphere comes into more prominence, the writing of Professional Feminists might diverge from that of non-Professional Feminist women. While I wouldn't identify as a Professional Feminist -- I have a full-time day job that's not explicitly in the movement -- I am an editor and writer by profession. (Incidentally, I have actually been Lauren's editor before!) And I am grateful nearly every day that I have a full-time job that fulfills both my economic needs and my personal passion. Having a job I love is a privilege. And I do acknowledge the fact that this privilege affects not only what I write here on Feministing (and occasionally on TAPPED), but how I assign and edit articles. When I recently blogged about The New York Times' coverage of how upper-middle-class two-parent families are coping with the recession's gender implications, I wrote:
I understand that it's more interesting for the Times to write about gender dynamics in two-partner families where the male is the breadwinner. But, after awhile, the disproportionate coverage of impact of the economy on the upper-middle-class sends the message that these are the people who are most affected. That simply isn't true.
I've heard many people retort that, well, the people who read/buy the Times are upper-middle-class, and so that's the population they predominantly cover. But I don't think that's the whole story. I think it has way more to do with the economic status of the editors and reporters at the paper. Their friends are upper-middle-class professionals. They hear their friends discuss gender and the recession. They write an article that, surprise, happens to focus on upper-middle-class families. In their daily lives, I'd wager they don't actually hear from too many laid-off Midwest workers. (Which isn't to say they receive no coverage -- just demonstrably less, especially considering who's being impacted by the recession.)
Bringing it all back to Lauren's post and the Professional Feminist quandary, I think much of this applies to blogging, too. Most bloggers I know (especially women bloggers), feel most comfortable speaking to their own experience and community. Understandably so. It takes a concerted, sustained effort to write about people and dynamics beyond your personal experience, your own community.
This gets thorny to pull apart, because this conversation gets personal -- and folks get defensive -- really fast. I know both Courtney and Lauren personally, I know they are both incredibly smart, talented, and driven women. I know they both come to this conversation willing to, well, have a conversation! (Which is awesome.) It's not that one has done more to "earn" a career she loves, and neither one is getting rich. While it is indeed a privilege to make money doing what you love, for most of us, it is not lucrative.
A lot of this is lurking in the background of stories about job loss and career-shifting during this recession. Work is SO deeply tied to identity in this country, for better or worse, and so when jobs are at risk, everyone (yes, women too. duh.) feels pretty damn vulnerable. Talking about how our work-lives intersect and overlap with and inform our feminism is a conversation I want to continue. As Courtney wrote in comments to her post,
The post wasn't intended to be some sort of arrogant display of my day. As I said in the intro, I'd like to hear how others' days are composed in many different professions. I think privilege comes from secrecy and I was trying to be open about what one real day was like for me for those who are interested in the fields I work in.
I've already asked a friend of mine to write a guest post about how she is coping with being unemployed, as this is an experience I can't speak to personally. I would love to publish more stories from Feministing readers about how the recession has affected you -- and about how your daily routine affects your feminism. Send them to me at ANN [AT] FEMINISTING [DOT] COM.
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This is a great topic, and one I think about a lot as an educator.
I think it's kind of problematic that we engage in so much of the you-can-do-anything-you-set-your-mind-to and always-follow-your-dreams rhetoric when children are young. I think it's great to encourage kids to find what they're good at and what they enjoy, but I think maybe a little dose of pragmatism would protect them from the huge let-down that so many young adults experience upon finding out that the world just doesn't work this way most of the time. It would also help students when they're starting college and thinking about what to major in.
In my experience students often have a real sense of entitlement, and it's hard to encourage them to take the courses they enjoy and pursue their passions while also making sure they're prepared to have a career in a field that's more stable or easier to get a job in. Most college students firmly believe that they'll get a degree and go right to work in their chosen field, staying in that field until they retire. Statistics show that this is highly unlikely.
My partner and I discuss this all the time regarding our girls (who are still very young). He has a (useless) BA in Sociology, and I went into Philosophy. He thinks parents should discourage girls from going into WS, Soc, the Arts, or Phil unless they're prepared to go to grad school and pursue an academic career, like I've done, because it makes them economically vulnerable to not have pursued a more "practical" degree. I agree, but think that's what double majors are for. So I wouldn't discourage them from these areas, but just remind them that they need to have a good back-up career in case things don't work out in the area they love. Because it really is a privilege to have a job you love, and the fact is, most people are just going to end up working a job they can tolerate in order to finance the things that they love.
I'm happy to see this. To be honest, Courtney's post left a really bad taste in my mouth, but one that I wasn't totally comfortable voicing, partly because 1) I didnt want it to see like a personal attack and 2) I wasn't sure how to articulate how I felt. But Lauren did, and I'm glad for it.
In general I have issues with some of the prominent faces of the feminist movement, maybe b/c I'm one of those women who has a completely full time job thats not really about women/feminism at all, and I try to find time to blog or comment whenever I can, (*ahem* now, hoping my boss doesn't come in) and also because sometimes I feel like people don't care about voices of 'regular people' or 'regular feminists,' only book deal-scoring popular feminist voices.
And its not about whether or not she makes a lot of money, to me. Its about being in that place where, well, it doesnt really seem to *matter* if she makes a lot of money because she doesnt have to make that sacrifice to keep afloat, apparently.
I'm fully aware I am coming from a place of privilege too. Because I have a job, and I have a Bachelor's. And because...I may not LOVE my day job but I certainly can't complain.
That being said, Courtney is a really valuable voice and I wouldn't want this to come across that she's not. Honestly Feministing is a great website that has helped me really understand and further my feminism in my daily life. Its just every once in a while, the privilege factor comes across really visibly. I hope people send their daily routines to you, too.
Privilege will likely alway be an issue among progressive movements. Those with resources and leisure time can publish, organize rallies, and connect to people in positions of power to make their voices heard. And I'm glad to have such people advocating for issues I care about. And by many measures, I'm part of that privileged few.
It's just problematic when part of your mission is to open access and opportunities.
Blogging has expanded the privilege circle beyond those with the connections and money to publish to a much larger group. But that group is still a privileged group that can spend large portions of the day on a computer. In a future where everyone can blog, there'll probably still be some other factor.
So I guess the "privilege" of the writer isn't really the issue. It's 1.) whether something in your experience speaks to a larger audience and 2.) that you make sure not to extrapolate too much from your experience and the experiences of your social circle, ascribing trends and patterns to a larger group that simply don't exist.
I guess what that really means is being self-aware.
Thank you for directing us to the commentary by this blogger called Lauren (I'm not familiar with her work, but now I can add her to my roster of blogs to visit).
I take with a grain of salt all of the blogosphere criticism of Courtney's post and what it may or may not represent about Feminism and class and failures of intersectionality. I can swallow this grain of salt because I had read her post--indeed, I do read everything--with a grain of salt, as well.
I know, when reading her post, that (a) Courtney is limiting her post to a description of her own experience, (b) that there is an underlying concern amongst people of certain educational and class backgrounds (i.e. mine and perhaps Courtney's) to avoid Appropriation of Voice of people with different experiences to ours, (c) that she felt she was helping keep at bay the nefarious side effects of Privilege by being up front with us about some of her own, (d) that Courtney does not speak for all feminists, but that, more importantly, and any book deals or TV interviews notwithstanding, she is not claiming to.
Give me someone who is transparent about her lifestyle and choices and any attendant privileges. Give her to me any day over someone who denies that they have privilege, who attempts to obfuscate the effects of privilege on their work and life, or worst of all, who complains about others' privileges without ever mentioning one's own. Some self-described progressive writers and thinkers I have known have been guilty of the latter; they write at length about other scholars' and writers' allegedly unacknowledged privilege, while their own consistent access to Internet (or scholarly jounrals or, in the 90s, zines, or what have you) is a privilege they let go unremarked upon.
In critiquing Courtney's post (which is important; analysis and critique always are), I think it is helpful for us to separate (1) that which *is* tone-deaf due to unremarked-upon privilege, and (2) that which is the essence of her work, of who she is, and is thus, an expression of her own voice/experience.
The former, is, I believe, what we should try to avoid; her talking of "OVERPRICED takeout sushi" might fall into this category. It might merit at least a qualifier that acknowledges that other freelance-writing feminists might be breakfasting on cold macaroni and cheese.
But in the latter category falls the stuff that makes up her working life: the pitching of stories; the interviews with media, etc.
I don't feel that these latter thing belong in the "tone-deaf" category. They have elements of Privilege about them, to be sure, but so do all jobs relative to others (documented Burger King cashier in a Wisconsin winter has its own privileges when compared to undocumented sewage pipe worker in a Wisconisn winter, or migrant crop-picker under the south Texas July sun).
To critique her presentation of her actual job and its duties is, I feel, venturing into the territory of the "But what about the menz?" and "But what about the starving kidz in Africa?!? [full disclosure: I am African, though far from starving]. Yes, disquieted ones, Men do have their troubles and I feel for them and speak out on their behalf and otherwise give their problems all the repsect due them. But, at this moment, I am writing about ________ (the representation of minority sidekicks in cop movies; purity balls in middle-class Euro Colorado; or any number of other "non-essential" things; sexual harassment against fast food employees). The existence of other, more dire situations does not diminish the need to work on these things that are, admittedly in the grand scheme, less essential.
Courtney's work, like all of ours, has elements of privilege and of non-privilege, though perhaps in varying degrees to our own. And while it IS helpful to point out moments when privilege makes us "tone-deaf," I don't think it is useful, as some comments about her blog post have done, to state that because there is more economic hardship elsewhere, Courtney's sharing of her own experiences was not appropriate or acceptable.
Our solution to disparity should not be to silence some historically privileged voices for the fact of their privilege (all the while glossing over our own privileges, meager though they may seem to us!) but, rather, for less-heard voices to tell their own stories. The more stories, from the more perspectives, that are "out there," the more we can have frank discussions about privilege, both economic and otherwise.
But I have privilege on the brain fom my recent Community posting, so do please take my own advice and accept *my* words with a grain of salt.
Thanks for posting this, Okra.
Also, Lauren is indeed awesome! She is the founder of Feministe, where she blogs in addition to her own site.
Thanks for this thoughtful response, Okra. I really appreciated it and learned from it.
Wow. This posting rocks. Thanks, Okra!
Yoga, sushi, control over the use of your time, feeling empowered by the tasks that fill your day, etc -- yes, these are signifiers of an upper-middle-class lifestyle, and a relatively comfortable and secure financial position (either that or Courtney's rackin' up her credit card balances!).
But, I personally don't feel frustrated regarding those who speak their feminism from this position, even though I don't share it. My solution is to speak MY feminism as it manifests in my own socioeconomic situation, and to learn from others.
[For example, I don't know the first thing about professional blogging-- so I would ask Courtney-- HOW'D YOU MANIFEST THAT? I'm trying to start a used online bookstore right now and it is barely making any money and I have nothing to invest at all. I don't have a degree (yet, been working on my bachelor's for 14 years!) and I've never held a professional-level job. My last job was working retail at a pet store, and before that I've done other retail, warehouse, and factory-floor work, hostessing and bussing tables, etc.
Right now, the only reason I'm able to even think about the used bookstore is because I already had so many books from college etc, and I started selling them out of desperation and fear that we weren't going to make the mortgage. I had two yard sales this summer to make money and sold a lot of things I really didn't want to part with, but felt I needed money more than I needed the things. Also, I'm at an 'advantage' cuz my son's dad is paying the mortgage and the bills (even though he, too, has been collecting unemployment for several months and just declared bankruptcy).]
Feminists who find themselves in an economically underprivileged or exploitative situation need to include class issues in their struggle for the improvement of their living conditions, and hold their ground in the feminist discussion. Likewise, black women, queer women, differently-abled women etc need to include all salient aspects of their identity into their struggles and hold their ground as well. I don't think we should ask people to abandon professional blogging and become part of a hotel housekeeping staff, for example, but I do think we can ask for solidarity if that housekeeping staff is striking and demanding better working conditions. I also don't think we need to become "privilege police" and dismiss the position of upper-class women because they're privileged, anymore than upper-class women should shame women for NOT being upper-class, educated professionals.
Is there any way we could help each other? That the more privileged feminists would be willing to give a hand to those of us who aren't so privileged, who are stuck in jobs we hate because we just can't see any other, viable way to survive? And how can we help each other? I'm not talking charity here, I'm talking about real tools that we can use to get ourselves into a better situation.
One last note, I identify as an anarcha-feminist because this brand of feminism addresses class issues and is explicitly anti-capitalist. It also does a fairly decent job at addressing ecological issues. I have found that it is the most comprehensive and revolutionary form of feminism out there right now.
Hmm...
"Yoga, sushi, control over the use of your time, feeling empowered by the tasks that fill your day, etc -- yes, these are signifiers of an upper-middle-class lifestyle, and a relatively comfortable and secure financial position (either that or Courtney's rackin' up her credit card balances!)."
Is this really an "upper middle class lifestyle"? Is it really a signifier of a secure financial position? It doesn't seem like it to me. Maybe middle class, but not upper middle class, especially when the people I know (including myself) who do have jobs like that are mostly not very well-off (I was just talking to someone yesterday about how it'd be amazing to make $30k/yr) but make huge sacrifices to do it, and we all live in a town with a very low standard of living that skews the perception of our lifestyles towards the middle class while we would probably be considered lower class if we lived in most other places. Not to mention we all have a ratio of work to money that means we are constantly working our butts off with very little or no opportunity for breaks just like everyone in a "standard" job. Personally, I think it's one of the falsehoods that the media likes to peddle, that those of us who do have fulfilling jobs with no set schedule are just living the good life.
But maybe I've lost sight of something somewhere.
Well, if you notice, I say "relatively comfortable." So you essentially prove my point when you say "we all live in a town with a very low standard of living that skews the perception of our lifestyles towards the middle class while we would probably be considered lower class if we lived in most other places."
And again, I said "upper-middle-class lifestyle," so even if you aren't making the big bucks, there is a certain lifestyle that is more dominant among educated professionals than it is among people who do not have a formal education and are not professionals. Yoga, sushi, control over one's time, and feeling empowered by the tasks that fill one's day-- these are all signifiers of that lifestyle.
I don't think anyone implied that fulfilling work isn't work, even hard work, or that it brings in high incomes (hence my joke about Courtney's credit cards). Additionally there's nothing wrong with doing yoga or eating sushi. But when you share your yoga, sushi-eating, feminist-blogging schedule publicly, and it is read by women who either can't work due to their health, or can't find work, or only qualify for grueling low-paid work etc, and who are eating rice and beans or ramen because they're broke, you need to be prepared to look that discrepancy in the face, put yourself in other women's shoes, and listen to their reactions without defensiveness, and say, "what does this mean for feminism?"
I see what you're saying. I don't necessarily agree - I still think it's a feature of a middle class lifestyle, not upper middle class - but either way we agree that these kinds of jobs are a privilege to have, so it seems silly to argue.
Well, if you notice, I say "relatively comfortable." So you essentially prove my point when you say "we all live in a town with a very low standard of living that skews the perception of our lifestyles towards the middle class while we would probably be considered lower class if we lived in most other places."
And again, I said "upper-middle-class lifestyle," so even if you aren't making the big bucks, there is a certain lifestyle that is more dominant among educated professionals than it is among people who do not have a formal education and are not professionals. Yoga, sushi, control over one's time, and feeling empowered by the tasks that fill one's day-- these are all signifiers of that lifestyle.
I don't think anyone implied that fulfilling work isn't work, even hard work, or that it brings in high incomes (hence my joke about Courtney's credit cards). Additionally there's nothing wrong with doing yoga or eating sushi. But when you share your yoga, sushi-eating, feminist-blogging schedule publicly, and it is read by women who either can't work due to their health, or can't find work, or only qualify for grueling low-paid work etc, and who are eating rice and beans or ramen because they're broke, you need to be prepared to look that discrepancy in the face, put yourself in other women's shoes, and listen to their reactions without defensiveness, and say, "what does this mean for feminism?"
"And I am grateful nearly every day that I have a full-time job that fulfills both my economic needs and my personal passion. Having a job I love is a privilege."
Hmm. That implies that complaints against Courtney's post - including Lauren's - come from complainers who don't love/actually hate their jobs. What about those of us that have settled into a truce with an ass-kicking, painful, free-time-destroying job that we still love? The kind of job that keeps you working from 7am to 10pm, or later? Those kinds of jobs certainly prevent us from blogging and writing and dinging around watching the Daily Show, but that doesn't mean we don't love them. They are just part of our truce with economic reality and the demands of the American job market.
Being overscheduled/unleisurely ? hating your job.
That should have said, "doesn't equal hating your job."
>>*shrug*
Not sure what you meant to convey by this...
>>The same could be said of the people responding negatively to Courtney's thread.
I disagree. I heard women responding to Courtney, questioning her judgment regarding the posting of her daily schedule, and speaking from their own truth. I heard them speaking out of their own frustration and struggle to someone who enjoys more social power than they do. In fact, I hardly saw anyone say anything impolite, let alone "raging" or "attacking" as Alex101 claimed.
In contrast, Alex101's post came across as deliberately trying to shut down the discussion by "reminding" others that actually, they're privileged too, relative to others in the world.... she wasn't speaking truth to power; she was telling those who were that they're complaints weren't legit because others are worse off. Whether this was her intent or not, it is a silencing tactic.
Sorry for any confusion-- not sure what happened, but the above was supposed to be a response to wax ghost's Feb. 11, 2009 post, 9:28 pm that said:
>>*shrug* The same could be said of the people responding negatively to Courtney's thread.
I think the belief that the world is your oyster and that you can make a successful life for yourself is, in fact, a form of privilege that some of us were given by our parents and/or teachers, and some of us weren't. The same could be true of some of the tools that have helped us be successful.
Here are two things that people have taught me over the years that I've found useful:
1. Define success. When I was young and broke, I defined "rich" as not having to check the balance in my checking account before I could go to the grocery store. Now I get to feel rich (almost) every time I buy groceries.
2. There are three steps to making any major change in your life. Find a coach, make a plan, take consistent action.
There's no doubt that some of the success I've had (I'm not loaded, but I do love my life) is because of my privilege. But I've seen plenty of people who didn't have those privileges achieve a lot more than I have.
But then I have this little voice in my head telling me to look at the news and see all the job losses, think about what it must be like to have had a coach, made a plan, and taken consistent action, only to find out that your coach is now broke, your plan turned out to suck, and your life savings is gone.
So, anybody out there got tips for feminist personal finance? Is there even such a thing? Any capitalist feminists out there with advice on weathering the recession?
Actually, there's a great blog at feministfinance.com that's probably exactly what you're seeking.
Mike, I think your post is interesting because it demonstrates the tension between a very American, individualist, "anyone can succeed if they put their mind to it" orientation, and a more sociological one that recognizes that there are larger, systemic forces at work that shape, if not determine, people's life chances. This isn't to say that some people don't beat the odds. But most don't. We all like rags-to-riches stories, but we like them because they're exceptional. And the exception, by definition, cannot be the norm, and trying to make it so creates a paradox.
Not to mention, it is a myth that continually justifies the social disparities maintained under the political dominance of the business class. Think about this: there may be sufficient class mobility in our economy, but class mobility implies that there are classes into and out of which people are moving (the middle class being in the middle of at least two other classes, one higher, one lower). It also implies that it is desirable to escape the lowest classes, which implies that the conditions of the lowest classes are NOT desirable.
My argument is, instead of focusing on the class position of any given individual, we turn the struggle toward creating new social conditions where class does not exist, at least not in the sense that it affects an individual's opportunity to live a fulfilling life.
I feel a lot of that tension myself. I think we all have to run pretty hard just to stay in the same place, these days, and certainly some folks have more hurdles to get over than others, but I also think that "I'm lucky to have a job at all" is a belief that benefits employers, as it keeps people scared to look and convinced that there is nothing better out there, whereas "There's a better job out there, and I can find it" is an advantageous belief to hold, because it encourages you to look for something better.
Just in general, it's hard to walk the line between a belief in free will and the recognition that there are larger forces at work in the world that push us toward and away from certain outcomes.
Ann, I just wanted to thank you for the last paragraph. I've been a little surprised not to see more from Feministing on the economy and how we're being affected by it. (Which isn't to pull my least favorite of arguments, "How can you complain about ____ when there's _____?" I'm well aware, and very grateful, that it's possible to pay attention to multiple things at once.)
So I look forward to hearing more from other folks! (I'd send you my story, but it's boring--I work in education, and the biggest school district around is cutting somewhere in the neighborhood of 900 jobs.)
so, i sort of had the opposite response to courtney's post. sure, i immediately felt jealous of her glamorous, independent, intellectual life but what really got me riled up was the possibility that MAYBE someday i could have a job like hers. or at least make it my goal to find a job that is more like a vocation (an end in itself, rather than a means to an end...). sure, it takes a lot of luck (or "privilege") to get there, but it also takes a lot of willpower to CHOOSE to do something you love and to believe that you deserve that kind of fulfillment from your work.
I, too, had rather negative feelings about Courtney's post and Feministing in general after reading it. I didn't comment when I read the initial post because I didn't want to seem like I was attacking her personally, but I was rather upset after reading it. I think perhaps in a different economic climate, I might have simply found it gratuitous, but with the struggles I and others I am close to are currently enduring I felt it was thoughtless, at best, and almost bordered on mean-spirited (even though I am sure Courtney didn't mean it that way). Shoving her clearly more financially secure lifestyle (yoga, sushi and a six hour workday?) in the face of a nation crippled by job loss, savings depletion and a mortgage crisis shows a serious lack of consideration for those who are struggling.
I wish better judgment had been used before Courtney's piece was posted, but I'm glad to see Feministing at least openly acknowledging that they took some notice of the negative response.
A short comment to remind people that as long as we're talking about privilege, just being healthy enough to work at all, to say nothing of whether you like the job or not, is also a privilege that most folks take for granted. I know this because it's one that I miss very much.
Of course, unlike some folks that I know, at least I still have internet access and the energy to post comments on blogs from time to time. So I try to count my blessings. Being grateful for what you have goes a long way toward fighting that mentality of being entitled to a perfect life that other folks have mentioned. I hope this does not sound too "pollyanna."
Peace to all.
A short comment to remind people that as long as we're talking about privilege, just being healthy enough to work at all, to say nothing of whether you like the job or not, is also a privilege that most folks take for granted. I know this because it's one that I miss very much.
Agreed, ahisma.
I've had this brought to the forefront recently. I have an uncle who's battling cancer. Watching what he's going through...really puts things--from being able to work, to just being healthy enough to go for a walk to the corner store--into perspective.
I know I'll slip-slide at times, but I hope I'll be able to keep this perspective near the front of my mind.
I too am glad to see Ann spearheading an effort to get more representative writing at Feministing about what's happening in the economy. I completely agree that Courtney's post struck the wrong tone in the present economic context. I feel strongly that Feministing - and hell, all of us -- need to make a better effort to deconstruct what's happening in the economy. An analysis of capitalism, exploitation, wage labor, etc. is really important, and lacking in a lot of places right now.
Courtney wrote in the comments section of the daily-schedule post that "privilege comes from secrecy." If this is really what she believes, that is a poor analysis of privilege.
We've discussed this a good deal today & yesterday on Pink Scare. You can read more here if you are interested: http://pink-scare.blogspot.com
Reading some of the comments in Courtney's thread I was struck by the number of people raging on her for being oblivious to her privilege who seem unaware that, hard as their lives may be, they are still privileged themselves. A lot of the posts seemed to effectively say "She's being obnoxious for rubbing her privileged lifestyle in our faces when I have to work x hours a day/struggle to pay the bills/had to downsize my flat/am considering moving in with my parents". When the majority of people on the planet would gladly sell their organs (and many do) for the chance to have an electricity bill to pay, for the privilege of having a flat of their own to downsize, for the privilege of either having parents to move in with or the privilege of having enough money to already not be living with their parents - and grandparents, possibly in a one bed flat, possibly with another family there too.
As hard as the lives of many of the posters are, I think that the majority of the worlds population would be extremely envious of these people who are complaining about Courtney, of course many of those people don't have the privilege of access to a computer, or an education that would enable them to read and write to they probably won't be attacking Courtney's critics in the same way the critics are attacking Courtney.
You know, there was a poster who pissed off a lot of people on another thread last month by using the term "Oppression Olympics." But is this not what we have here?
Person B says to person A, "Look how privileged you are!" Person C says to person B, "Oh yeah? Well, look how privileged you are!" Person D says to Person C, "Oh yeah? Well, look at how privileged you are!" And so on...
I find this embarrassing. I mean, I think it's great that people are trying to be conscientious about social class, inequity, maldistribution of wealth, and so on. But when you get into this "less-privileged-than-thou" spiral, well, first of all, you're giving ammunition to the right wing anti-feminists who like to portray all of us as "victims" and "whiners." Second of all, it shifts the focus from the system of patterned social / economic relationships that create these disparate social positions, to the individuals who inhabit them. Now I'm not saying we don't all embody the social locations we inhabit-- I know that there is no radical distinction between the social and the individual, the personal and the political. But, I guess my question is, is this an effective way to go about changing the system that creates these inequalities?
I thought Alex101 had a great point, and I interpreted that point as being that we need to examine our own privileges just as much as we point them out in others. It's a lot easier to blame others than it is to take a long hard look at yourself, after all.
I respectfully disagree and feel that Alex 101's point was dismissive of the real women's real complaints that were offered throughout the discussion.
You know, it's like the parent who chastises an ungrateful child who's being fussy about her dinner by referencing "all the starving children in Africa." Even though it's TRUE that there are children in other countries starving and dying, the parent isn't helping the child make the connections between her behavior and the starving children. The parent isn't helping the child understand the causes of starvation. Rather, the parent is using their poverty as a way of controlling the child's behavior-- it's called GUILT.
It is a commonly used form of silencing-- "How dare you complain when others have it much worse off than you do! Now, BUCK UP and quit your whining!"
I felt it was condescending, as though none of us are aware that there are people in the world who are much, much worse off than we are.
As to your point about examining our own privilege, I agree, though I would insist that we make sure it is done in a way that is proactive and that creates solidarity, not one that creates guilt and silencing and which can lead to defensiveness and communication breakdown.
*shrug* The same could be said of the people responding negatively to Courtney's thread.
>>*shrug*
Not sure what you meant to convey by this...
>>The same could be said of the people responding negatively to Courtney's thread.
I disagree. I heard women responding to Courtney, questioning her judgment regarding the posting of her daily schedule, and speaking from their own truth. I heard them speaking out of their own frustration and struggle to someone who enjoys more social power than they do. In fact, I hardly saw anyone say anything impolite, let alone "raging" or "attacking" as Alex101 claimed.
In contrast, Alex101's post came across as deliberately trying to shut down the discussion by "reminding" others that actually, they're privileged too, relative to others in the world.... she wasn't speaking truth to power; she was telling those who were that they're complaints weren't legit because others are worse off. Whether this was her intent or not, it is a silencing tactic.
Except many of Courtney's critics seemed rather keen on making her feel guilty for having a moderately comfortable lifestyle. All Courtney did was go through her daily life, nothing in it came across as "Look how wonderful my amazing life is!". It was more "This is what I do - what do you do?" and she got extremely negative responses from a number of people because she dared talk about liking her job and having a nice lifestyle. And it's not as though she is even living la dolce vita, but people are telling her to give up her little luxuries and donate the money to charity etc.
It seemed that many were saying that if you have a vaguely decent lifestyle then it's bad taste to even mention it. They did not seem to be just talking about their experiences, but guilting Courtney about her life and guilting her for talking about it, even going to the extent of taking the discussion onto a different forum to continue talking about how bad it was that this woman dared mention the little luxuries she enjoys.
I can't help but wonder if you're deliberately missing the point.
Let's say I'm effing broke and in a miserable economic situation, busting my ass at a job I hate, losing my savings, selling my home, feeling overburdened by responsibilities, etc. I come across Courtney's post. It evokes feelings in me. Perhaps envy, perhaps resentment, a sense of injustice, a sense of personal failure, or even confusion (what's the point of this post?). Lets say I respond to Courtney out of this lived experience and dare to express my resentment in response to someone who has more social power than I do.
Is this not the essence of feminism? Challenging power structures? Calling out injustice and disparity? Getting in touch with our truths and expressing them regardless of whether they're "socially acceptable"?
Now, lets say someone else comes along and scolds me for responding that way because "others have it worse off than you do."
Is this the essence of feminism? To shame and silence other women for expressing hardship? If it is, then I cannot possibly call myself a feminist.
I really just don't understand the shitstorm that has come from Courtney's post. I think that Lauren is wrong-- having your "dream job" isn't a luxury. I know too many people who want non-traditional jobs-- other people who want to be teachers, doctors, firefighters, police officers, and even nontraditional things like curators, art historians, researchers, etc. For everyone I know, myself included, we've actively made the decision to do our dream job even if it means we don't make six digits a year and it takes us a few extra years to pay off a student loan or two. I get that there are other people who are disadvantaged from the start, but really, honestly, I came from that same kind of background (single parent, multiple divorces, abuse, etc) and I'll be graduating this spring with a job in art. I don't think it's a question of affluence or luxury at all.
Hi Littlearthistorian,
I just wanted to take a moment to try to illustrate some ways in which privilege can shape one's ability to have one's dream job. Let's say your dream job is to be a curator at an art museum. Here are some relevant questions:
1. Do you live in a place where you can earn a degree (if not degrees) from a college or university with a good enough art program that you'll be competitive in the job market?
2. If not, can you afford to move to such a place?
3. If the answer to 1 or 2 is yes, can you afford to attend said school?
4. Once you have your degree(s), what's the job market like where you are?
5. If it's not good, can you afford to move to a place where it is?
6. Do you have children and/or other family members who rely on you for financial and/or other kinds of support?
7. Do you have health concerns that necessitate finding a job with health insurance as soon as possible? (As opposed to, say, an unpaid internship in the arts.)
8. Are you able-bodied enough to work at all?
And that list doesn't even go into the myriad ways things like race and sexuality can affect one's education and employment.
In an age like ours, when people are lucky just to have jobs, let alone jobs where they're actually treated like a human being, loving what you do is absolutely a luxury, no matter how much money you are or aren't making.