What's the worst college advice you've been given?

So I'm working on a project of sorts, and thought I'd get some feedback from our fabulous readers. My interest is in the horrid advice that's pushed at women heading to college - ya know, how to avoid the Freshman 15, how to not become the college hussy - you get the gist.
So let's have it folks. For those who have been, what shitty, sexist advice have you experienced before or while at college?
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My grandfather to my father, verbatim:
"I know why you're spending so much to educate your son, but your daughter?"
(My grandfather was a piece of shit, through and through, and is dead more than a decade. My sister went to an Ivy and went into financial services. Many years, she's made more than me.)
My grandfather thought it was a waste of time sending my mom to school. She eventually earned her Masters degree, and has been able to support my family during a handful of times when my dad was unemployed. If she hadn't been well-educated, we probably would have lost our house at some point.
My mom had a similar experience with my grandfather. He was willing to send her to college since her mother had gone, and he helped pay for it.
She graduated with highest honors in Business and comes home and starts to look for work. He suggests that she get a job as a secretary, while he hires his son, with the same degree but poorer grades, to work for his large company. There's never any suggestion that she work for him.
She goes to the city and finds important jobs at financial firms. She ends up getting her MBA. My uncle did very well too, and owns my grandfather's company now, more power to him. But why wasn't my mom given the same chance?
Sure, she ended up marrying and taking time off to have kids, but she then went back to work and provides a good salary and benefits for our family. If it weren't for my mom's education and well-paid job, my family would be much worse off. Not to mention she's pretty brilliant and any company would be lucky to have her.
I go to an all-women's college. Before I started, my friends from home all spit out the same advice: Don't become a lesbian!
I went to a women's college as well, and the number one question I received was "how will you survive without boys around?"
Pretty damn well, actually.
I also went to a woman's college. I didn't get a lot of the "how can you survive without guys?" stuff, but since I am from the Northeast and the school I went to is in Virgina, I did get:
"what? they have books down there?"
(kind of off topic, but pretty stupid none the less.)
MiriamCT: Can I ask what school you attended in VA? I went to Hollins, best four years of my life!
I also heard the "How will you survive without boys?" and "Don't lesbians go there?"
To all those that went to all-women colleges:
I am soooooo jealous of you!!I'm a senior now at my university, but wish I had gone to an all-female school. I would LOVE that! I'm looking at masters schools, but havent found one thats all-female. Maybe I'll find one in Europe?
I go to an all women's college too. they said "don't become a lesbian!" and "why did you choose that?"
My brother told me he was going to send me a box of razors because he heard that women didn't shave at liberal arts colleges.
I had relatives tell me not to stop shaving, too. So ridiculous.
At college? To clarify, is your inquiry geared more toward the experiences of and advice to those who right after high school leave home for dorm(ish) living at a college far away?
I can't imagine the examples you cite applying to kids attending college while living with or near their parents or to older college students.
Upon hearing that I was majoring in computer science, more than one individual commented on "how cute" that was and then followed up with "So what are you really going to do?" or "Right, so what's your mommy job going to be then?".
All this happened between 1999 and 2003. = /
As a fellow programmer, the sexist attitudes of my industry drive me nuts. I'm not sure where it comes from, but my guess is it's partially inherited from the Mathematics and Engineering sciences.
I am also a female programmer (I went to school around the same time), and a fellow student once told me "tits and CS don't mix." He said it very matter-of-factly.
Also, in a class, a male student said that women aren't really interested in computers. And that 95% of the women he saw in the computer lab were just using the computers for email or AIM (pre-facebook times). Thankfully my (female) professor called out not only his ignorance, but his quoting of an imaginary statistic.
My patience was tested a lot there.
Upon hearing that I was majoring in computer science, more than one individual commented on "how cute" that was ...
Now how do these ancient ideas and attitudes come back into vogue? When I majored in computer science (my college years were 1978-1982) I NEVER got that kind of attitude from anyone! I did get some stupid comments while I was in college, e.g., "You don't look like an engineer." (which never made sense to me - looks are related to computer science and engineering how? hmm?)
But I never got any comments (nor did my peers) that were as belittling as what you report above and that was 10-15 years later. I just don't understand this crap (backlash?) but I do think it's related in some way to the drop in the percentage of women in computer science.
Here's a table with NSF statistics if you want more details: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/wmpd/pdf/tabc-4.pdf (a PDF file)
I'm guessing that you were there before Revenge of the Nerds convinced them that cheerleaders came along with the Computer Science degree.
Plus, I think there was a more genuine love of computers and what they may be able to do. Most of the computer guys I encountered in 1993-1997 were more interested in money and the rewards they thought it would bring.
Mostly the girls that wouldn't talk to them in high school.
I'm guessing that you were there before Revenge of the Nerds convinced them that cheerleaders came along with the Computer Science degree.
Nope, I never saw that movie. Now I'll be sure to avoid it.
Plus, I think there was a more genuine love of computers and what they may be able to do.
Yeah, I did notice that those who graduated years later (after I was working and we were hiring new college grads) seemed to be more interested in getting rich than the sheer love of the technology. Those nearer to my age, both male and female, were definitely motivated by the "Wow, that's so cool!" factor. None of us chose our major in order to get rich. In my generation I think people who wanted to get rich generally went for an MBA. {grin}
It's ridiculous. You'd think that things would be better in IT. It's still very much a boys club. I think in my case things were made worse since I am in the Deep South.
Where are you, Disgruntled? I'm also a fellow programmer in the south, and out of a team of 30 software engineers, the *only* woman. Apart from their tendency to call me 'the chick in engineering' the guys are mostly ok, but it can be a challenging environment. I wore a skirt once. Won't make that mistake again...
Did you go to Georgia Tech by any chance?
That is where I went, and fighting sexism there is like fighting the drug war. It's a never ending struggle. The ratio of men to women is 3:1, and you constantly hear about the "Tech Bitch Syndrome" or "TBS." Which basically means, if the women at Tech aren't immediately willing to date/sleep with the men at Tech it's because they are bitches. The level of entitlement there is HUGE, especially at a place where most people have a low degree of social skills in the first place. Also, "TBS" is a good way to blame women when you are inept or unwilling to put forth effort to met women. However, not all the men there were horrible. I had a lot of male friends, who never talked about "TBS." And, I ended up marrying a great guy that I met in college.
I also wanted to note that once I got out of college, even though I was usually the only woman, my co-workers never seemed to have a problem with that fact. I guess people have had a chance to mature, or maybe it was because they were from a less evil generation. And if they'd seen me wearing a skirt, they would have just been afraid that I had another job interview or something. :)
I went to Georgia Tech! I ended up transferring out, though. I still think that it's very possible that I was absolutely the most liberal person at the entire university.
TBS didn't just apply to bitches who wouldn't sleep with guys, though. TBS also applied to asking for help, didn't it? How often would you hear nasty comments (often from women!) about how so-and-so got her boyfriend/other guys to do all her homework? The implication was that they didn't really deserve to be there, and there was never any acknowledgment of the fact that the students who fail out of Tech were mostly the males, even if it's only because there's three times as many of them.
On topic? The worst advice I got was that as a woman of colour, I had to be four times as good as your average white male. Twice as good for being a woman, and twice as good for not being white. I ended up feeling like a failure when I was merely above average. Total recipe for failure.
Did you go to Georgia Tech by any chance?
That is where I went, and fighting sexism there is like fighting the drug war. It's a never ending struggle. The ratio of men to women is 3:1, and you constantly hear about the "Tech Bitch Syndrome" or "TBS." Which basically means, if the women at Tech aren't immediately willing to date/sleep with the men at Tech it's because they are bitches. The level of entitlement there is HUGE, especially at a place where most people have a low degree of social skills in the first place. Also, "TBS" is a good way to blame women when you are inept or unwilling to put forth effort to met women. However, not all the men there were horrible. I had a lot of male friends, who never talked about "TBS." And, I ended up marrying a great guy that I met in college.
I also wanted to note that once I got out of college, even though I was usually the only woman, my co-workers never seemed to have a problem with that fact. I guess people have had a chance to mature, or maybe it was because they were from a less evil generation. And if they'd seen me wearing a skirt, they would have just been afraid that I had another job interview or something. :)
This reminds me of when I went to declare a computer science major on top of my EE major. I brought my transcript and an elective plan into the adviser's office and started talking about how I had already taken all of the base courses and which electives I planned to take. All the while he was giving me the stink eye and not saying anything... Finally I just stopped talking mid sentence because I felt so uncomfortable. Then he said something like, "You people just march in here like anyone can get a CS major. What makes you think the CS department even wants you?" I just sat there with my mouth agape, while he finally decided to look at my transcript. Then, seeing that I had a 4.0 in the CS classes I had taken so far, said "never mind!" and proceeded to act like I was his new best friend.
It wasn't so much advice, but I was under a lot of pressure to major in something "practical." I did and now I'm miserable and I don't really want a job in my field. It's a very, very stupid thing to do. If you major in what you love you should be able to make it work. I've dealt with quite a few women dealing with this.
I totally identify with this. It probably added ten years to my current career curve. Although, I was able to graduate and completely start fending for myself, for better or for worse.
That's true.
Although it sucks now, trying to take art and writing classes while working and build up a portfolio.
Some people don't love anything considered work. I am one of those people.
To those people: Pick something you can tolrate. You don't have to love your job. Tolerating your job is pretty helpful though.
I have one along those lines: I wasn't going to go to college; I wanted to become a professional dancer. Upon learning this, my mother told me "If you become a dancer you'll end up stripping at an all nude club. Go to college and have a CAREER."
Upon hearing that I was majoring in computer science, more than one individual commented on "how cute" that was and then followed up with "So what are you really going to do?" or "Right, so what's your mommy job going to be then?".
All this happened between 1999 and 2003. = /
From my great-aunt : "Don't go up there and get so smart that no boys will want to court you."
From my mom: "If he doesn't like your personality, then maybe you need to change your personality."
Miriam Grossman, the person who wrote "Sense and Sexuality," spoke at my college last term. I don't think I can elaborate any more on how awful that was.
Oooh, please do elaborate!
A relative gave me "How a Jewish Girl Grows Up" by Grossman when I was about eleven or twelve, so I can feel your pain. I wish that I had the book to reference, but it was pretty disgusting: don't use tampons, if your collarbone shows you're bad, bad immodest girl, etc. I was from a religious, but very egalitarian, family and when my mom found out what was in the book she gave me a bit of a reverse "sex talk." (i.e, "you can have sex with whoever you want - male or female - even if you're not married!") I just wonder how it affected young girls whose parents backed up the message - it really was shocking.
My grandmother gave me a bible tract and Dr. Laura's book "Ten Stupid Things Women Do to Mess Up Their Lives."
The inscription on the book read, "Be Good. Be Safe. Be Godly. I know what kind of influence a state school has on a girl! Love, Nana"
Well, I think they were heading this crap advice to everyone - at least that's what I assumed - but when I registered for my first semester of undergrad I was bullied into taking 12 credits instead of 15 so I could "ease into" college life - which was crap, because the semester was full of easy intro classes and I totally could have knocked out 15 credits instead of having to take them later when the classes were harder. It had something to do with their statistics about freshman doing well or getting lots of freshman into the freshman honor society or something. BS
At my college, it was completely different - we were supposed to take 15 hours our first semester so we could graduate on time (I did twelve and I was an anomaly).
No offense, but I think you might be out of the norm. I know a lot of people who would have benefited from lighter loads because they didn't know how to study, weren't used to not having a curfew and teachers not taking attendance, not having "homework" but having to study, etc. I don't know anyone who was hurt by having too much free time, but I know a lot of people who got overwhelmed and fucked over.
I found it incredibly helpful to take a lighter load my first quarter of college. It was really nice to have time to figure out my new life without the burden of hours and hours of studying. It was also really reassuring to start out my college career with a solid 4.0.
I should have definitely taken a heavier course load. I got the same advice and was tragically counter-productive. I basically ended up sleeping all the time because I had nothing to do and then as a result I couldn't actually get up the motivation to work when I needed to. When I finally kicked myself in the butt and took on more responsibilities, I got a lot more done.
I agree with what you said. I know a lot of students benefit from lighter loads the first semester because they're not used to college workload, but they shouldn't treat it like it's universal, especially with the rise nowadays of all-AP/all-IB/"honors" high schools where the focus is on preparing students for college. I went to one of those, and I was bored as fuck the first semester of college when I took only a few credits and drooled my way through intro classes. This semester, I'm taking a crapload of credits and working my ass off, but I'm learning a lot and I'm much happier! I'm going for music composition - which means I need to get a Ph.D. - so I'm going to be in college forever, so why not get credits out of the way anyways?
I agree - I was super busy all throughout high school with AP classes and extra curriculars (I even took 9 classes 1st semester of my senior year, and there were only 6 periods during the regular school day), so I decided to take it easy on myself the first quarter of freshman with a bunch of classes that seemed easy and fun. Unfortunately I just ended up bored out of my mind with way too much time on my hands! As a result I didn't get the best grades I know I can because I was too bored to do what little studying I did have. Last quarter was my busiest quarter of college so far with 17 credits (all 300 levels even though I'm only a sophomore) and 3 jobs, but I learned way more and got much better grades than I did when I tried to take a break with easy classes and no jobs or extracurriculars.
Have to agree with this. I always did better during the semesters when I had the giant time suck of marching band.
This isn't really advice but when I was assaulted during my first semester, my mother's first question after I told her was:
"What were you wearing?"
my mother told me she disapproved of co-ed dorms (men and women on the same floor) because apparently me and the other "boys" were going to end up making the "girls" clean our rooms.
What a bizarre mix of sexism, naiveté, and misguided backhanded feminism (if it could be considered feminist to not want women to clean boys rooms).
A friend of one of my mom's coworkers was about to flip when she heard I was going to be living in a co-ed dorm with boys across the hall from me. She looked at my mom and said, "And you're okay with this?" My mom said yeah, of course.
It's insane the commentary you get when they find out your dorm neighbors are boys.
"It's insane the commentary you get when they find out your dorm neighbors are boys.
"
I know, which strikes me as odd, because when you graduate and get a place of your own, do these people think you'll move to some magical island where none of your neighbors (or even roommates) are guys?
ooh-mine actually might be along here. my undergrad had co-ed bathrooms, and my mom was freaked out that men would be allowed to hear me use the restroom. of all the things-hearing me pee? I can live with that
My mom wasn't thrilled about that either -- her immediate response, I believe, was, "But what if you want to walk around naked?" To which my response was, "Why would I walk around naked in a public space?" My focus was more on transgender issues and, you know, my own convenience than on nudity, I guess. (And I find that people who wish to go nude are usually unhindered by unisex bathrooms.)
I've also had several people jokingly ask me, in that jocular "you and me, we know this is weird" tone, if my school was one of those that let boys and girls room together. Yes, I respond, it is -- and I am one of those madwomen who expresses a willingness to live with someone with a different gender identity than myself on my housing form!
Excuse me -- non-unisex bathrooms.
Heh. This reminds me of my sophmore year - not "advice", but in the same vein. I was in the honors program and lived in the special honors dorm (otherwise known as nerd village), and we had a bunch of high school seniors touring around with their parents. At one point, while hanging out in my (female) friends' room, one of the guys from down the hall came in to use the microwave (pretty common amongst everyone, since not everyone had one). One of the fathers who was with his high school senior kid says "oh, that must be nice for you to have all of these girls to take care of you" to which everyone did a double-take and the high school senior looked like he wanted to crawl into a hole and die. Needless to say, myself and my friends, who were all womens' studies majors, didn't take too kindly to the comment.
What did you say to him?
Someone made pretty much the same comment to my boyfriend once. When I met a couple who was friends with my boyfriend's dad, upon learning that I lived in a house very near to my boyfriend's the man of this couple said 'You've got someone to do your washing up for you then!'
No. He hasn't.
I don't remember what we said, which probably means we just laughed embarrassedly, which sadly is my usual response to stuff I should kick up a fuss about. I've also had lots of 'be careful in clubs, don't get too drunk, don't go home on your own' type advice from my parents, which I understand perpetuates the 'women shouldn't leave the house unchaperoned or have fun EVER' line of thinking and puts the responsibility on the woman not to get attacked, rather than on the man to, you know, not put his penis in women who he can't be sure want it in there, but at the same time I appreciate it is sensible advice.
One bit of 'advice' I DIDN'T appreciate was from my Dad when, after I told him which modules I had picked for my second year, he scoffed 'Well, I wouldn't have gone for the feminism module myself...' But then he's always been very disdainful of sociology etc.
I was 22 or so when a male advisor at the community college I went to practically admonished me - at the mere mention of my having a boyfriend - not to get myself pregnant until I was done with school.
And while, you know, I can see how he thought he was being helpful, because having a child *might* make it harder for me to finish my education (although I know plenty of women who have successfully gone to school and raised a child at the same time) I was appalled that he found it appropriate to blatantly tell me what I should or shouldn't do with my body.
I love the expression "Don't get yourself pregnant" because it completely takes any male second party out of the equation.
It brings back memories of a friend I had in grade school who was told by her mother that she could get pregnant from masturbating.
This isn't exclusive to college, but I am so sick of hearing stuff like "don't walk alone, watch your drink, don't lead him on, etc." without hearing a damn thing about men taking responsibility preventing rape.
it's times like these i wish i could click "I Liked this comment" eighty million times.
I used to be a tour guide for the Admissions Office at a women's college, and while I never encountered the question myself, we were always warned that a popular question among the parents is, "What percentage of the girls are lesbians?"
Along those lines, I often felt that the fathers in my tour groups were very aloof. I don't know if they felt uncomfortable being in a group of nearly all girls and women, but I can remember a couple instances in particular in which they really seemed as if this whole production over a women's college was sort of silly.
I wouldn't call this "bad" advice. Though I agree there needs to be a stronger emphasis on placing responsibility back on the men who rape, don't you think that for the time being it's not a bad idea to reinforce basic safety ideas? If some measure of security can be gained by not letting my drink out of sight, I'm going to do it. Not walking by oneself at night is something that can protect men and women from crimes other than rape.
I'm totally with you on "don't lead him on" though - that's simply foolish anti-rape advice.
My point wasn't so much that the basic safety advice (watch your drink, etc) was inherently bad advice. I meant that the bad advice is the sole emphasis being on the woman to prevent herself from being raped without holding men accountable. It's a good thing to watch your drink but it is a bad thing for that to constitute "rape prevention."
Ok, I agree with this. In a setting where men and women are present, both sides of the issue must be addressed. I suppose that I mostly have heard this advice in a room full of women at my sorority meetings as part of risk management discussions.
"Join a sorority. It will protect you from those angry feminists."
Oops, couldn't beat those "angry" feminists, so I joined 'em!
Don't forget the angry feminist sorority sisters!
Ha, I joined a sorority full of angry feminists, including numerous employees of the campus women's center and FMLA officers.
Turned out for the best :)
Hm. This comment admittedly rubs me the wrong way. Joining the Greek system is a choice that continues to be ridiculed by people outside of the system, and though I'm not naive enough to claim that there aren't some really backward traditions among Greeks at some schools, not everyone in sororities have anti-feminist inclinations and/or ideologies.
before i left for school, the woman who led the weekly bible study that i attended took it upon herself to drop this gem on me:
"that's great that you want to get a degree. once you're married it will help you discuss current events with your husband. i just want you to know that you don't NEED a college degree once you settle down."
after that, i dropped religion like a bag of dirt. and graduated, of course : )
Oh, I love that one. Discuss current events with your husband? Can a woman aspire to anything higher?
Reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
It was hard to read your comment and not be instantly reminded of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5PwQkM0KlY
I've never had to deal with THAT much sexist advice on that front because I come from a family where most women have the same education as the men, and most of my friends growing up had the same situation. However, my stepmom came from a family where most of the women were SAHMs. Not that there's anything wrong with that... but I got a lot of advice along the lines of "Go for the nerds, they'll be rich one day. I sure wish I had." (As if I won't get any money on my own!) Or, better yet was when my stepgrandma told my sisters and I that we should go to a commuter college because if we're not staying the night at college we'll have less of a risk of being sexually-assaulted (wtf???). I tried to explain to her why going to one of the local commuter schools (none of which are very good where I'm from) went against my goals in life, so she finally just sputtered out, "Okay, just promise you'll take a self-defense class." (I haven't, I've been in college for a semester and a half and somehow I'm fine...)
As soon as I graduated high school, I moved out on my own. No dorm, no parents helping me out financially. I moved from Indiana to Chicago, got a full-time job, and started school. It's how I wanted to do things. But even after being on my own since I was 17, moving to a strange city all by myself, finding an apartment, having a full-time job and being a full-time student... being an adult, when I was 20 and told my family that I was moving in with my boyfriend, they said they opposed it on moral grounds, but that I had a special circumstance. SInce I was living alone in the scary big city, it would make them feel better if I lived with a guy for "protection;" also, someone in the fam said, "This way you can quit your job and HE can work. You can just focus on school and relaxing." Wow, thank god the prince came to my rescue after 4 years of making it on my own...
This isn't really gendered advice, but I entered college with enough AP credits to knock out a full semester, and part of my degree was a summer internship that counted for a semester - so, in all, I was able to graduate in 3 years total. When I visited my honors program advisor during my second year and was discussing this with her, she said, "You don't want to do that. Once you leave college, you won't get to slack around and party anymore. Let's find some fun classes for you to take to fill up that 4th year."
A) Slacking around? How did I get all the AP credit and into the honors program if I was slacking around?
B) Yes, let's spend another year's worth of tuition that I couldn't afford to waste.
From my dad, "Don't get educated beyond your intelligence." What does that even mean???
The worst advice I got at college was while I was unexpectedly pregnant. I got lots of terrible advice of course (including my aunt's oh-so-charming "You MUST come down to florida, stay with me, and get an abortion!") but the worst regarding school was from the school doctor, who informed me that it was impossible to go to school and be pregnant simultaneously, and that I must drop out/go on medical leave.
I stayed in my classes, aced them all, and was glad for the distraction from the pregnancy. If all I'd done was mope around for 9 months, I would have been downright miserable - school and friends were about all that kept me sane.
Thanks, jackass doctor. This is of course the same guy who asks EVERYONE coming into the med center if they are pregnant, including those going in for a band-aid because they have a cut on their fingers. No joke.
My student medical center had that too! All of the docters were old men, and they never believed you when you said you couldn't possibly be pregnant, even if you said you were a virigin, and even if you only came in because you were bleeding or had the flu. They just assumed you were lying to protect your feminine honor. :-)
Your aunt's comment sounds a little inconsiderate of your decision, but it also seems nice to have somewhere like that to go if you need to. It's a nice option to have, even if you don't choose it as your route. I know that I'd love to have a safe place to go if I felt unsafe or somehow bad getting an abortion in my own state/town. It seems like a caring thing for her to do to offer a place at her house to you, but I don't know your relationship with her or what undertones there may have been.
No WAY! We always laughed in college because the (female) registered nurse would always ask if there was any possibility we were pregnant when we came in to check up on anything.
Now, I'm willing to say that she was asking it because she didn't want to prescribe anything that could harm a fetus and she believed the college women were unlikely to tell her straight out, but I've never been asked that anywhere else!
The funniest response to her I've heard came from a lesbian friend of mine in a committed relationship after the nurse just wouldn't believe her symptoms weren't signs of possible pregnancy.
"If I'm pregnant, I want to know what's impregnated me since I've been spending my nights in bed with my girlfriend, and I'm pretty positive she didn't have anything to do with it! Could it be an alien?"
I'm pretty sure the nurse cracked up too after that.
The worst pre-college advice I got was to not go to tech school if I planned on going to a liberal arts college. I hadn't thought of it as sexist (but a little classist, because only poor kids go to technical high schools?) but now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if my smart guy friends got the same advice? (That's what they told me, by the way. That I was "too smart" to go to a tech school.)
I really haven't gotten any crap at college, but that might have something to do with going to a women's college? (Yeah, Simmons!) The only thing I've noticed was the age old issue with the professor calling on the two male students to help her carry something. (Students from other colleges can cross register to come here.) I was like "uh, I can lift that and I go here, so I know what room you need it brought too".
For me it was classist and elitist. I went to a two-year technical school first and the other colleges didn't want to touch me because the figured I didn't have the academic chops to complete the coursework.
For me it was classist and elitist. I went to a two-year technical school first and the other colleges didn't want to touch me because the figured I didn't have the academic chops to complete the coursework.
"Don't walk alone, especially at night."
Got that through all 4 years of college, knowing fully well that (speaking in statistics) I have to fear my current or ex boyfriend or someone having drinks in a downtown bar, more than a stranger in the woods. I didn't let fear of imaginary bogeys keep me from enjoying my walks.
During my four years of walking on my campus in the dark I was never so much as frightened. During my 15 years of walking to and from work, same thing. Every week in the paper in my town, though, there's a story about some woman geting beaten in her own home by her "loved" one.
This don't walk at night thing is just one more piece of nonsense designed to keep women at home, or to blame the victims if something __does__ happen.
Actually at my Uni this was good advice...there were several predators who stalked the dorm blocks and hospital (across the street) waiting for a lone woman to attack. The cops usually caught them but there was never a lack of supply, unfortunately.
Oh, no offense meant. If there's a real danger, address it. But that I should give up my freedom in a very safe area just because I'm female and the stars are out is not acceptable.
I said this to an earlier comment, but at my school "Don't walk alone at night" is a comment directed at both men and women, as there are any number of crimes that can be committed against both that are made easier after dark. Two of my good friends have been assaulted walking alone after dark. This isn't bad advice. It maybe de-emphasizes the crime as the source of the problem, but in the urban area where I attend school it's pretty standard security protocol.
Depends where you are, to some extent.
Where I work now, I still get this dictum, even though every assault in the paper for the last ten years has been boyfriend against girlfriend (I've been paying pretty good attention since people have been telling me not to walk home from work) or bar fight.
Around here, the "don't walk at night" is definitely directed toward women -- to the extent that a guy where I work, who is 78 and feeble, has insisted on walking me to my car. I can't stand this. Luckily, I have no car.
Well, i go to a 95% male military school. I applied for a leadership position in my company of cadets. You know why I didn't get it?
Company commander- "I don't think people will listen to you."
Leadership 101- It is a leader's responsibility to find ways in which to get those under him or her to do tasks willingly.
So much for my school being a "leadership laboratory."
From an aunt: "You should major in pre-med so you can meet boys who will be doctors someday!"
From my mother: "When you meet boys, don't be easy. You want to be the kind of girl they marry, not the kind of girl they have sex with." (For the record, I slept with my husband two weeks after meeting him. We've been married since 2004.)
Somehow my grandfather was the only one who thought it was a good idea to tell me to focus on my studies and make good grades while I was at college...I'm told he used to be a lot more old-fashioned (ex: he wondered why my mother bothered to finish her degree after getting married), but after watching all of his daughters struggle through their divorces in the 80's and 90's, his tune has changed quite a bit.
Heh. Met my spouse late at a party, called the next day, had sex that night ... still together. That was 1996.
Yep, this just proves - not all men are assholes. (Or women.)
ive heard a lot of the ones that have been mentioned already, some word for word, others along the same ideas:
"dont get too smart now or he (current bf) wont want you anymore!" -grandma (not he wont want to DATE me anymore- he just plain old wont want me)
my personal favourite:
"dont become one of those women who gets all caught up in a 'career' and then doesnt have time for a baby!' -brother (he used air quotes for career, bc he loathes the idea of women having jobs)
"dont bring up womens issues in any of your philo/debate/hist classes or people will think youre a feminist." -mom (and who would want that?)
"dont turn into a feminist!" female friends (ive heard this one countless times)
"dont take any night classes, so you dont have to walk when its dark." -mom. then when i took a night class, "Are you walking home with someone? Make sure you walk home with someone, preferably a guy."
when my bfs college had problems with muggings "well youre not walking around without [bf], right?"-mom (in reference to my visits there)
wow ive got tons, and thats just off the top of my head. im a sophomore by the way, in 2009, at a state school in the US.
I'm male and have been mugged. I've found muggers don't tend to care about your gender -- just your wallet.
Since I'm a theater major I tend to get the typical responses communicating that this major won't help me get a real job. However, last year I was doing laundry in my dorm and got to talking to a guy that lived on my floor and when I mentioned my major he said "Oh, so you want to live on the streets when you grow up? You should marry an engineering major so he can support you with a nice salary." Obviously he was an engineering major.
Also, I recently transferred schools and over the summer when I was telling people where I was applying, some of my parents friends told me that my top choice was "a really good school" and did I really expect to go there?
p.s. I'm there right now, I'm happy, and it's my 20th birthday!
I was also a theatre major (now I'm working on my MFA in directing). Early on I also got many suggestions that I find a fall-back major so I could get a "real" job. As though working in the arts is somehow a "pretend" job.
A lot of people said that I was in an "easy major". Well, anyone who has worked in the theatre can attest to how much hard work it requires. It demands intellectual sharpness, physical dexterity, vocal development, LOTS of hours, attention to details, knowledge of history and current events, collaborative skills and much more. I graduated with honors.
Engineers don't make enough to support two people comfortably (read: mid to upper middle class)
ESPECIALLY at first. For the first 4 years you're going to make crap money..8 years if your school isn't ABET certified.
Then again, I can't imagine providing for two people on 60-70 grand. My idea of comfortable probably isn't in line with other peoples idea of comfortable.
Without a doubt, your idea of comfortable isn't in line with others'.
I'm a money grubbing engineer thats only going on for an advanced degree to make MORE money. Well, and get more fun stuff to work on.
I base this off my mom making about 45k. Our house and lifestyle is modest. We aren't exactly well off or anything. I can't imagine subtracting me from that, adding a fully grown adult with no income(I have a job so I pay for my own stuff) and possibly a child or two. I remember when I was a kid and we were living off this income with my [unemployed] dad in the house. Things were tight. Money was always an issue between my parents. (Given, I never wanted for food, clothes, shoes, etc)
My idea of comfortable isn't having to worry about budgeting as much as my mom does. I don't want to think "how am I going to pay for this car?" or "What if [x item in the house] breaks?". Money on demand is comfortable to me. I'm fortunate enough that I've never had to think "oh god how am I going to eat today?", so this is all from my own frame of reference.
Me, too.
And my single mother raised me and supported my grandmother (who got a whopping $282 a month from Social Security) on about $26,000 a year - this was more than ten years ago. But my mother still works at the same firm and is now making $29,000, no benefits, no retirement, no healthcare, no savings.
Won't he be surprised to see that engineers are being laid off like nobody's business! That guy is going to be living with his folks in 2 years.
When I was looking to move to Colorado and finish my BA my grandmother told me to move to Colorado Springs (where there is the Airforce academy) so I could marry a military officer.
When looking for gradschools she announced I was too old for military officers and should go to a good medical school so I could marry a doctor.
When telling my parents I decided to change my minor from sociology to women and gender studies my father replied "You're a lesbian?"and preceeded to call me a lesbian feminazi for the weeks following. He also made the decision the same week that I was an alcoholic.
When I was in college and applying to grad schools for museum studies, a asked a female history prof who I had taken multiple woman's history courses from if she would write me a recommendation. She looked at my list of grad schools and told me she thought I was aiming a little high and maybe I should consider other (ie not the top programs) options. I got into five of the six schools I applied for (without her recommendation I might add!) and ended up attending one of the best programs in the country. Ten years later I am still appalled that a PhD in woman's history would give such horrible advice to a female student!!
actually...i'd really like to talk to you about your schooling and what you're doing now. i'm wanting to go into museum curatorship, and i'm not sure all the steps i need to take. would you be up for having your brain picked?
From my grandmother, as I was finishing my B.A. in English and planning a wedding:
"Why bother doing all that work to finish if you're only going to get married and have a baby?"
Sigh.
I was asked once by an adviser if i was sure i didn't want to major in english education instead of english, because it's much much easier (my grades were good and did not in any way indicate that I needed an easier course load). the male english major that i was dating who shared an adviser was never encouraged to do that.
I was advised not to take upper-level philosophy classes because they're "really hard!"
I consider it important to challenge yourself in college, but my experience was that females are discouraged from doing so.
An aunt warned my mother that if I went to a women's college, I might "turn into" a lesbian.
To which I asked, how does one turn into a lesbian, and so what if I do?
Also, I was advised by my parish priest that, since I was planning on attending a college run by Benedictine nuns, to "Watch out for those feminazi nuns."
Nice.
I've gotten the same kind of crap for considering a women's college (I chose a different one because the English program was better there).
My brother also asked me what kind of man I would hope to find with my feminist sticker on my computer... yeah.
Obviously, a feminist one! What other kind would a sensible girl be willing to put up with?
You can tell your brother that I found my husband when I did a facebook search for single men interested in women who listed "feminism" under their interests. Out of a school with almost 50,000 people and about 1/2 of them have facebook accounts, he was the only one that showed up. I'm happily married for 2 1/2 years to my proud feminist hubby :D
"Feminazi Nuns" sounds like a small press comic book... ;)
I was also advised not to go to the local women's college because that was where "the ugly queer girls went", according to my godmother. I ended up going to a different school because it is better for my major and hanging out with a feminist organization here.
As an English major, I am so sick of being asked, "What are you going to do, teach?" Yes, I want to teach college, but you can do so much else with an English degree.
I get the same thing as a history major!
I got that as an art major constantly. I would explain that I wanted to be an artist and they would look SO confused.
English degree here. I'm a copy editor. You don't get rich this way, but it's a legitimate profession all the same!
I get that a lot, too. That's when I whip out the five-pronged Powerpoint slideshow of possible career paths I am considering. (I am an over-planning insomniac, yes, but the point remains that only one of those prongs can be teaching.)
"Practice animal husbandry. Keep your calves together"--maternal grandfather
"What do you want to go to college for? Get your secretary certificate. It's more practical. You won't need it after you marry anyway."--paternal grandmother.
Funny thing about that latter one though. No one was more proud of me than she was when I went to college. No one. She used to send me boxes every so often with snacks and she'd save all her change and send it for the vending machines. And no one was more incredulous and devastated than she was when I had to drop out. She passed away several years ago. I wish she could know that I'm back in school now.
Always wanted to go to be a teacher (probably because my grandparents practically raised me and they were both teachers...you get the picture).
Anywho, I'm changing to Liberal Studies with a minor in comparative religion/women studies.
The first question my grandparents, my parents, etc. asked "What are you going to do with that?"
or
"Why not get a degree you can do something with?"
1. My mother: "Why are you so fixated on graduating? Just meet a nice rich boy and settle down."
2. My father: "Don't do Science. It's too hard for you. Why can't you be like other girls and want to get married?"
3. This isn't quite advice, but I was applying to Yale and my interview told me:
"I'm amazed that Yale is going through such lengths to recruit more women in their student body!"
Not to mention he told me it was "so weird" that I didn't play an instrument, since "all Asians seem to play an instrument well".
1. My mother: "Why are you so fixated on graduating? Just meet a nice rich boy and settle down."
2. My father: "Don't do Science. It's too hard for you. Why can't you be like other girls and want to get married?"
3. This isn't quite advice, but I was applying to Yale and my interview told me:
"I'm amazed that Yale is going through such lengths to recruit more women in their student body!"
Not to mention he told me it was "so weird" that I didn't play an instrument, since "all Asians seem to play an instrument well".
Don't take the subway or you'll get killed and don't turn into a lesbian (all women's school).
I got a lot of "don't go running in the dark" but the main advice was about getting married. I was told:
1. "Don't come back without your MRS. degree! (jokingly)" -- by my mom
2. Don't go anywhere without your hair, makeup and nails done, you might meet the man you're going to marry but he won't want you if you havent' kept yourself up -- my charming grandmother
3. Hang out around the med school and pre-law classes -- another good line from my mom.
My mother was always yelling at me me about the clothes I wear and the make-up I wasn't wearing and basically my overall appearance.
She was afraid that I would go away to college and since she wasn't there to bug me I would stop wearing make-up altogether. "If you don't wear make-up how will you find a husband?"
Riiight, that's the whole reason I went to college! To find a husband to pay off my loans... rargh!
I got a lot of "don't go running in the dark" but the main advice was about getting married. I was told:
1. "Don't come back without your MRS. degree! (jokingly)" -- by my mom
2. Don't go anywhere without your hair, makeup and nails done, you might meet the man you're going to marry but he won't want you if you havent' kept yourself up -- my charming grandmother
3. Hang out around the med school and pre-law classes -- another good line from my mom.
You're smart, you should go to graduate school.
The assistant manager at the grocery store where I worked in high school gave me all kinds of advice about the "safe" areas in DC. He pretty much told me to only go out in Georgetown. Of course, if you look at a crime map, muggings abound in Georgetown, but who cares about facts or statistics or stuff like that.
This same manager once called one of the other cashiers "dirty" and told her that she was too heavy to work at Hooters, even though she had good boobs. We tried to file a complaint about him (and the store manager was totally with us, to his credit) but the cashier backed out.
When I told my grandfather that I was about to fly from Fredericton, New Brunswick to Houston, Texas, to be one of two attendees at an academic conference and present my Honours thesis, he warned me about becoming and "over-educated little bitch". I love my grandfather, but for the rest of the day every female in my family refused to speak to him unless to tell him what an asshole statement that was (thankfully, I have a plethora of strong, intelligent, educated women in my family and he was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay outnumbered).
I was accepted to a very small, local college on a full ride. I was also accepted to a prestigious women's liberal arts college, with only partial scholarship. As one of the top students in my class, I was invited to a breakfast with the high school principal to discuss my college choice. When I announced that I'd decided to go to the women's college, the principal responded with, "Why do you want to go to a lesbian school? You know that's going to hurt you later in life. If you want to be a language teacher, stick with the co-ed school so people don't think that you'll abuse their kids." The principal refused to announce my scholarship at our graduation ceremony, though he announced everyone else's.
My father, who was responsible for paying for my college education under the terms of my parents' divorce agreement, decided that he wasn't going to pay for his daughter to go to some "hippie, basket-weaving" school, where I wouldn't be able to get any practical job after graduating -- or, even worse, where I might be inspired to join the Peace Corps. He legally disowned me in order to not have to pay.
On the other hand, it was my grandfather (mother's father) who wanted me to apply to to the women's college, and he was over the moon when I got in. He paid for it, while he was alive, and he lived to see the day that I declared my major -- not romance languages, as I had originally intended, but computer science. He understood the value that would come from the unique combination of CS in a liberal arts context, studied by a woman in a single-sex environment. For a man of his age, he was far, far ahead of his time.
"Always get a guy to walk with you if you have to walk across campus at night." My school even had a hotline you could call to get a male escort. Such bullshit. And what if the guy escorting you decides he wants to rape you?
Now that is silly. We have an escort line but the escorts are male and female, trained by the university police department and "armed" with radios if more assistance is needed.
I was talking to my honors program advisor and I told her I wanted to take a Calculus class and she said that I might not want to take that class because it was "too hard" for me, even though theoretically someone in the honors program should be among the smarter people in the school. I was also really offended because I consider myself to be good at math but she assumed because I was a girl that I would find a math class too difficult
Ooh, that reminds me of one I completely forgot about until now. I was meeting with an advisor during frosh orientation, and she was going over some required classes with me. She pointed to the computer science requirement and told me that there were two classes that I could take to fill it - one was a basic CS 100 class for learning how to use a computer, and one was an advanced class that covered advanced database and spreadsheet uses. She, who I had never met before and never met again, looked at me and said, "So, I'll put you down for CS 100."
My dad was really startled and said, "Um, no, this girl has been using computers since she was a toddler and our computer used giant floppy disks. Why would you assume she doesn't know how to use computer?" The woman looked flustered and didn't really answer, but my dad kept going on afterwards about, "Why would she assume that?" My dad isn't always perfect about sexism, but I did love him for being really confused at the idea of women not being able to handle technology.
I hate this one! I used to be pretty good at math (took calculus and advanced chemistry in high school), but more or less stopped caring about it once I came to college and became a history major. I guess my family has taken my major as an indication not that I like liberal arts, but that I'm bad at science, because while discussing me, my grandmother told my mother 'well, it's not her fault- girls just aren't good at math!' Uh... hi, I did better on the GRE math section than any of my male lib arts compatriots. I am not a math genius, but that's because I'm rusty, not because I'm a girl!
While in college, my father dropped these 2 doozies on me:
1) "You need to learn how to cook, because your husband will expect you to cook for him."
2) "Get a boyfriend." (He said this to me a few years after I graduated--in 3 years--too.)
Gee, I've been able to get along just FINE without having a boyfriend or husband to do it for.
While in college, my father dropped these 2 doozies on me:
1) "You need to learn how to cook, because your husband will expect you to cook for him."
2) "Get a boyfriend." (He said this to me a few years after I graduated--in 3 years--too.)
Gee, I've been able to get along just FINE without having a boyfriend or husband to do it for.
I had the kinda compliment experience to those above who were encouraged to downplay their education to make space for marriage. I was tracked by my high school (and family) as brainy and unmarriable and sent to college with the advice:
"better succeed at college because the world has no place for [brainy girls like] you anywhere else!"
I did enjoy my education and continue to work in a field related to my degree, but that "study or starve" mentality i and similarly spinster-tracked(?) women had was not very healthy.
I'm kind of horrified about how much pressure women's families are giving them to marry, not get too smart, etc. How do you deal with something like that?
It makes me really grateful that despite all the pressure to be practical (And my attempts to fix my mistakes) that they've never ever questioned my personal life or made me feel the need to marry to be complete.
(I'm a mechanical engineering major, math minor. I'll be tacking on an aerospace major when I trasnfer)
My mom and the people I'm surrounded by are teachers, generally. I haven't had nasty remarks from them. MY teachers on the other hand...
This isn't advice but its one of the only things that sticks out in my head:
"Since this is a freshman level class, I'll pair [x], [y] and [z] together. If this was a senior level class I wouldn't do that." Guess who x, y and z were? Me and the two other girls in intro engineering class. Read: "Since this is an easy class I'll put you together. If we did any real work I'd put you with the boys so you don't fail." We were then segregated off by ourselves for the rest of the semester and ignored.
I'm horribly pleased with my adviser. Hes encouraged me to go on to grad school, take part in the on campus research, etc.
A professor told a friend's younger sister, a biology major, to give up any plans she had to have children- she simply can't have children and have a fast-paced medical career. In some sense, the professor was just being brutally honest about the realities of sexism for women in that line of work, but still...
Not really advice, but.... My cousin is majoring in electrical engineering and will probably never graduate (he routinely fails classes and is just not terribly bright). He was telling my father that there was only one woman majoring in EE at his university and my father immediately said 'Oh, I would NEVER hire a woman for that!' Gee, dad, you should definitely hire a man just because he's a man. Look how well being a manly man is working out for my thickheaded cousin! How do people manage to espouse sexist beliefs even when evidence to the contrary is right in front of them?
I'm a varsity swimmer at my college and when I told my coach (male) about the inappropriate nicknames members of the men's team were giving members of the women's team (i.e. Little Miss Piggy, Miss Junk in the Trunk, etc.) he told me that I needed to get tougher skin because "boys will be boys" and teasing and giving people a hard time is how college age guys interact with one another. He said at least the men were taking notice of us, instead of ignoring us completely.
I hope you told him that "boys will be boys" is never a valid excuse. =/ Sorry that happened. I'd much rather be ignored personally.
I went to a swim school and lived in the swimmer dorm, though I did not swim. As a result, I view male swimmers with a very wary eye...
I just finished applying for graduate school, and while I was in the process of completing my applications, my stepmom told me that I "could be overqualified" for a job after all that school. Never mind that to even be licensed in the field I want to enter I NEED to have a professional degree.
If any advice was given to me that wasn't from my mother (and my mom is a cool mom), I probably didn't listen anyway. Hence I forgot. lol. Mom gave me a talk about being safe in different kinds of ways, not just "walking down the street" kind of safe. If I had a question I would ask her. I really didn't ask anyone else. She knew reality so she gave me realistic advice and made sure if I was going to fool around that the guy would wear a condom and I would be on the pill so the chances of disease and pregnancy would be drastically lowered to nonexistence. I thank her for being so cool, nonjudgmental, and realistic.
When I say "fool around" with a guy I meant after getting tested for stuff.
I think, overall, both grandparents on each side of the family were realistic and "with the times". They didn't discourage me from going to college and, in fact, wanted me to go to college. ALthough I can say they were more conservative on the social front, they liked the fact I wasn't all set out on catching a man as if it were a goal in life. They praised me for wanting to and eventually traveling/navigating the world by myself.
One of my professors when I was consulting him about my desire to go into neuropsychology or neuroscience in grad school (I admittedly have a slightly above mediocre track record in some hord science related psych classes): "It's possible, but perhaps you should consider something else you find easier".
...If I wanted to do things the easy way, I wouldn't be heading toward a complex field with a "learning disability." I like challenges. Get over it.
Though, my I have to say that when I talked to my advisor about my concerns about my track record and my worries about GPA, research experience, and taking the GRE (and the challenges of going through grad school with an LD), he told me that he honestly encouraged me to go forth with pursuing what I wanted. In fact, I found that many of my teachers had better faith in my transcript than I.
Now I am about the interview for Grad Programs that emphasize in neuroscience.
I'd have to say that the worst and most obnoxious advice I have been given was to change my degree because a bachelors in psychology is "useless."
My family told me over and over again how useless a BA in psychology was, mostly in the hopes that I would change my degree to something in a 'real' science. So what did I do? Change my major to history, with a minor in philosophy. And they thought psychology was useless... ;)
I got the "you won't believe how many boys there are at college!" speeches- apparently going to college is less about getting a degree than it is about finding your one true love.
After I graduated with honors my grandfather sent a congratulatory email to my father in which he described me as "pretty, sweet, and clever". I have a bit of trouble imagining that when the time comes for my male cousin to graduate that he will be described in quite the same terminology.
I went to a small, conservative liberal arts college in Pennsylvania, which - for part of the time I was a student - employed a woman as Dean of Students who was about seventy and had worked for the college for *years*. Her name was Mrs. Paxton, and I blame her for the fact that an otherwise well-respected and academically rigorous school seemed so steeped in the 1950's mentality of the M.R.S. degree.
Just one of the many gems Mrs. Paxton left with those students over whom she presided was the classic line she repeated to every entering freshman class at the opening assembly: "Look to your left; look to your right; your future mate may be in sight."
The college then proceeded to house male and female students on opposite ends of the campus and severely restrict our visiting hours, using handy rules like "Four [feet] on the floor," a shoe in the door, one light on, etc.
This is why I had sex outside and in cars for three years, and why sex in a real bed has never been the same since.
Hahaha! My school's president (also a woman) told us first-years: "Look to your left, look to your right. The people you see probably won't graduate." Quite a start to the year.
Another women's college grad chiming in. One summer when I was home from college, I ran into a girl I knew in high school who was going to big, southern state school. Somehow she started telling me about about the trends that she was a total slave to ($400 purses, forerunner with her sorority letters on the window, some brand of shoes I'd never heard of). When I told her I didn't know what half of those things were she said "Oh, well it's different for you. You go to a girl's school so you don't have to look as good as everyone else every day." Really?!
And I can second (third?) the "don't be a lesbian/are you a lesbian" comments. Got that 100 times.
I KNOW! It lays bare society's subconscious homophobia (emphasis on the PHOBIA - sheesh) that you might catch Teh Gay if there aren't any menz around.
Another women's college grad chiming in. One summer when I was home from college, I ran into a girl I knew in high school who was going to big, southern state school. Somehow she started telling me about about the trends that she was a total slave to - $400 purses, forerunner with her sorority letters on the window, some brand of shoes I'd never heard of. When I told her I didn't know what half of those things were she said "Oh, well it's different for you. You go to a girl's school so you don't have to look as good as everyone else every day." Really?!
And I can second (third?) the "don't be a lesbian/are you a lesbian" comments. Got that 100 times.
My parents told me that one of the major reasons they wanted me to go to college was to find a husband. They hail from the old country, I suppose some ideals die hard.
The RA (resident assistant) for my all female dorm floor sent us an email with strategies for deterring an attacker if someone were trying to rape you. Innocuous enough, but it ended with the suggestion that you try and poke the attacker's eyes out with your fingers, which, the email continued, was gross but if you didn't attempt this the consequences would be "your fault!"
No, that is victim blaming. Just... wrong on so many levels.
I guess this is more related to my career than to the university part of it, it comes up whenever people ask me what my major is.
"International Studies? What can you do with that?"
"Work for the foreign service, hopefully. I'd love to get paid to travel."
"Don't you ever want to settle down? It would be hard to have a family when you're moving around so much."
Ha, I'm an International Studies major too. Around here, it's seen as one of the more practical majors--and lots of people have asked, "Ooh, are you going to work for the State Department?"
My mother wanted me to become a poet. I majored in biochemistry much to her dismay. Now she insists upon telling me that I should like cooking because "its just like science".
I'm now a librarian and the bio/chem departments at the college I work at constantly complain that none of the librarians have a background in science no matter how often they are told about my background and experience. They still insist upon having their library instruction courses taught by the male librarian with a background in Scandinavian studies.
I truly cannot understand a parent being annoyed or dismayed that their child went into BIOCHEMISTRY. I'm flabbergasted. My mother badgered me to go into biochem (I didn't, I went down the dark shady path of SOCIAL science, dum dum dum).
Computer Science -
I'm realizing how good my parents were, telling me I could do anything.
I got the "there's lots of boys at college" thing but I took it to mean "date a lot of boys, all at once", since it was my mom saying it. She loves my dad but I think she regrets not dating more than a couple guys total.
I got a little special attention from professors who were trying to retain female students, but no easy A's. Despite that, some of the guys assumed I got easy A's, since my grades were so damned good. Sucks to be them, I guess.
Not about college, but while in college I got my first tattoos; the largest is a beautiful one down my back. When I showed my mom (who admittedly is against tattoos) the first thing she said was, "What if your [future, assumed] husband doesn't like it?" Break my heart.
On second thought, when I told my uncle I was a Gender Studies Major, the first words out of his mouth were; "Gender Studies? Thought you were old enough to have figured that out by now! Harharhar." He's my least-favorite.
I did gender studies minor in undergrad (largely because my school didn't have enough of a gender studies program to offer a major.) Two years after I had my BA, and was home visiting my parents, my father finally asked me out of the blue one night, "Um, what is gender studies, exactly?"
That made me chuckle, because I wondered just how long he had waited to ask... I doubt it occurred to him randomly that night. :)
Worst advice?
"If you go to law school, you're just taking the spot of a man who deserves it."
It came from a high school principal and cemented my desire to go to law school.
When I asked a male professor for an extension on an assignment in advance and with good reason, he replied: "You know, you're going to have to learn to be more organized so you can run a family and a household some day."
WTF? Gag me!
What. The. Fuck.
Just when I think I've heard it all...
I've never been sure if this was an instance of sexism or not:
I was always sort of leaning towards majoring in math, but I was taking a lot of other classes too. One day I wandered into the math office and said I was thinking of doing the major. I sat down and talked with a man who was some sort of adviser. He asked if I was interested in teaching, and recommended the math education major. The thing is, I WAS somewhat interested in teaching, and maybe I came off as unsure about what I wanted to do... But I always wondered if he would have brought up that same line of suggestions to a guy. I found out after one course that the math education major was a super easy joke, and I switched to the pure math major.
Anyway, other than that I can't really think of any sexist advice, honestly. Everyone in my family is big on education. My grandmother always tells me things like modern bathing suits are too revealing, but I tend to tune her out.
My experience as a Physics major is just that they're kind of desperate for math and physics teachers. Perhaps you're right, he may not have brought up the education major in a one-on-one meeting with a male student, but at my school the math department and various science departments are really pushing the education minor. The professor who is in charge of the physics education minor came and talked to my intro Mechanics class about it last year.
Hmm, that's interesting. I'm not aware of them doing that at my school though. I had a professor later who said something like "yeah, I could have told you back then that you're too smart not to be doing the real major."
The point is, the education major is full of easy classes and you don't really learn much higher math. You can do the major where you learn all the harder math and STILL end up teaching, and you'll be a better math teacher for it. You keep your options open that way. But doing the education major really cuts your options back to pretty much only teaching, because no one looking for a real math major is going to take math for high school education very seriously.
But yeah, I have no real reason to blame that meeting on me being a girl, maybe he asks everyone that and once he asked I did say that I was interested in maybe teaching someday. But I didn't realize how vast the difference was between the majors. He told me the education major involved learning all the real math AND getting a teaching certification; as it turns out it involves learning easier math and you get learn the hard math and get the same certification by taking a 3 hour test instead of taking all those boring classes.
I was morbidly obese when I began a diet that would lead into anorexia and bulimia. Because I was on the student health insurance plan, I had to see one of my college's psychiatrists who would then refer me to counseling. I saw him after I had lost some 140 pounds in about eight months. I was still technically considered overweight, but it was nonetheless an alarming amount of weight to lose in such a short amount of time, especially considering how it was achieved. He was rude and put me on the defensive, questioning superficial things like my eyebrow piercing and choice of clothes. Finally, he said, "Yes, you still have weight to lose." I left the office, promptly lost another 20 pounds in the next three weeks and never did hear from or seek out counseling services on campus.
I am a high school senior going to a small, politically liberal, Liberal Arts college in the fall. Earlier this year, I cut my hair short and pierced my nose.
Response from my mom: "I guess the next step is for you to become a lesbian when you go to *name of college*."
Little does she know-- I'm just not out to her!
"Don't go to Trent [a school in Ontario], it's full of lesbians!"
On living in a coed dorm with coed bathrooms: "Sooo, what do you parents think about that? I'm surprised they let you, boys are so smelly and rowdy!"
Apparently I need to protect my delicate femininity, and I'm also supposed to let my parents make all of my adult choices for me.
Actually, some of the crappiest college advice I've seen was on the Feministing community blog, when juliagoolia asked whether she should consider going to a woman's college. She was told by one poster that he probably would not hire a woman's college grad because he didn't think they had enough experience dealing with men, and by another, who very courteously didn't want to start a "flame war" but then went on to say that in his headhunting experience, most companies didn't care to hire to hire such grads because they were snotty, combative, etc. By that time, I had gotten tired of the whole mess, but wish I had pointed out that a very large percentage of women's college grads get accepted to top-notch grad schools, law schools and med schools, and future employers seem to have no problems with that.
I was forbidden from attending the University of Pennsylvania because my parents "knew someone who knew someone whose daughter was raped" on that "very dangerous" campus in the "ghetto."
I got into Penn, but attended the in-state Big 10 school (where there were probably many more rapes, just in a cornfield rather than in Philly).
When I wanted to change my major from Engineering to Theatre, my parents nearly disowned me. Dad: "Doing theatre is a waste of your intelligence." Even though I knew a couple months into school that would be the right choice for me, they asked me to stick it out one more semester and see which one would "win." That resulted in the most stressful 13 credits ever, with me getting a C in Organic Chemistry (shocking for my straight-A self) while working 6 days/week on the musical.
My advisor, on the eve of my graduation: "You'll be tired of theatre within 5 years - you're too smart for it." Turned out he was right - I stopped about 5 years later and am now in grad school for something else, but what a thing to say right before graduation! (I in no way regret starting my career in the theatre -- invaluable experiences!)
At least I had it better than my mom. Her dad was an architect but refused to let mom go to college to become one herself. She could have totally done it (honors math in HS... she majored in Art Education instead and wound up getting her MBA at age 50). Except for being non-plussed with the theatre thing, my parents raised me with the belief I could do anything I put my mind to.
If I were able to give myself some advice, in hindsight, I'd say "Don't get too freaked out on the first day of that class you tried to take at the Sorbonne while studying abroad. Stick with it."
I'm stunned by the comments expressed by some of the posters here.
My advice was the exact opposite (though instead of gender, there was a bit of racism involved):
--DON'T have a boyfriend; focus on your studies
--Begin thinking about graduate school even as a Freshman
--Do not become distracted by extra-curriculars, sports, community service and sororities the way "The Americans" (read: European-Americans) do. "The Americans" care about those frivolous things (translation: life-enriching, "whole person"-crafting endeavors) but don't excel academically; don't follow their lead.
My parents are immigrants from a country in which it's expected that all but the wealthiest women will join the workforce and remain in it. "The Mommy Wars" are unheard of, and it is assumed amongst the middle classes that a man will NOT want a woman without a degree and amongst the low-income classes that men will NOT want a woman without a viable trade (domestic service; a fruit and vegetable stand at the market; etc). My mother and all of my aunts and female cousins on both sides have graduate degrees...and, ironically, the only one who is not putting her degree to use outside the home is my mother, the one who moved to the U.S.
"You should go into a career that will let you take time off and work from home, for when you have kids."
Also:
"Get your degree from a school with a national reputation, so if you marry someone from another state and have to move it will carry more weight there."
And finally:
General advice about getting to know boys, not overlooking rich frat guys, etc.
My otherwise supportive mother, when I told her I was planning to add Studies in Women and Gender as a double-major to my English degree, hesitated before fearfully whispering, "are you a lesbian?" And often when I told a guy at the college about my major, I’d get, “Women's studies? Heck, I study that every day!”
Mom also gave me the same advice other posters have received about not walking alone. She was obsessive about making sure I kept my door locked at night (dorm and apartment), and she was particularly afraid that I might get "slipped a mickie" at a party, advising me to open all my own drinks or watch them be poured in front of me. I have two brothers -- as far as I know, neither of them got any of these pep talks.
Oh, on the better side:
"Never do a boy's laundry."
-My Mom
Oh, on the better side:
"Never do a boy's laundry."
And
"Don't get married until you have a degree."
-My Mom
People told me boyfriend not to "let me" go to the woman's college I'm a freshman at now because I would turn into a lesbian.
My parents advised me to not take a year off between high school and college because I'd "never go back."
Since then, I've regretted not having the experience of traveling, working abroad, and so on that others have had, before going back to school.
My parents struggled to get their college degrees as I was growing up, so I know they spoke from their own experience of marrying young and avoiding college--but I wish their advice had come from knowing ME better, and going to college wasn't something I would "put off" indefinitely.
Also: telling people of all ages that I was studying creative writing and art history got a lot of this response: "So, you want to be a teacher?" Um, no, I actually want to write.
I never even considered taking a year off between high school and college, and never realized that it was a valid option. This was more a case of advice I wish I'd gotten rather than bad advice I did get.
Both my sisters had left their schools and didn't graduate for a very long time. I didn't want that to happen to me, so I attended college right after HS. I soon realized that I wasn't ready and left after a semester. I stayed home and worked for a year and a half and took one semester of community college credits.
I transferred to a much better, more prestigious school with a lot more options for leadership and the ability to study in many different areas and graduated from there after 3 years. My only regret was that I didn't consider taking a year off in between HS and college. I wish I had gone there as a freshman--so many opportunities to fit into 3 little years!
I'm a senior at a small liberal arts college, and I've lived in the same large on-campus apartment these past two years. There's been a big controversy over the university implementing gender blind housing over the past few years, with a lot of the arguments centering around "if we let boys and girls live in the same rooms, they'll inevitably sleep together!" (obviously!)
Last year we were one of the first apartments to be mixed gender, with two boys (one of whom was my ex) and two girls, though one of us is gender-questioning. My parents were concerned by this arrangement, and a lot of people thought it was really weird. Everybody seemed to think that some sort of drama would inevitably rise from boys and girls living together. (Note that we were all either straight or some variation of bi). Turns out, we were perfectly fine, with the most tension rising from my ex and other female roommate being much more particular about housekeeping issues than myself and our other male roommate.
This year, I'm living with four girls. My parents are relieved, everybody seems to think it's much more "normal." Guess what? They're now all coupled off with each other besides me! It's awkward! I love my roommates, but I'm not so fond of feeling like the fifth wheel and worrying about one of their relationships exploding in a horrible mess. (This is a big problem in campus housing, since it's all but impossible to change rooms in the middle of the school year.)
So fuck that gender essentializing, heterosexist shit. There is NOTHING that inherently makes living with guys, even straight guys, more or less problematic than living with girls, and I feel retroactive annoyance at everyone who told me so.
I went to the "guidance" counselor my senior year of high school (1970.) He told me that I had good grades in my typing class, so I could become a secretary. When I pointed out that I also had A's in my advanced biology class, he said, "Oh, then you could become a nurse."
When I was registering for classes my Sophomore year of high school an official told me that I did not need to take four years of Spanish because only people who are going to college to do that. I'm graduating from college this spring with a BA in Political Science and a BA in Law and Justice. What I would give to run into that jackass...
You mean aside from my sister's asshole boyfriend who said I was wasting my time getting a degree because my real vocation was to be a stripper since I had "great big boobs"?
Or the assholes in college calculus who said women should not take math because we are not good at it, and got SO pissed because I had a 98% average, much better than any of them?
OK, I was a bio major at University of Washington. There are two bio programs; one for a BA that basically equips a person for teaching up to the high school level and nursing school, the other for a BS that is for everything else - grad school, medical school, tech careers, etc. My faculty advisor told me, unsolicited, that I should go for the BA because it's an easier program and, being a woman, I would naturally want to get married (I'm a lesbian) and have children (I knew since I was about 13 I'd never have children) and could not commit the time and effort to a tough program.
Please tell me you had some choice words for this individual.
Please tell me you talked back to him/her.
I'm dying to know what your response was.
I'm a math major. When I tell other people this, the thing I hear the most (after "Wow. /I/ could never do that") is "So you're going to be a teacher then? That's /great/."
I get that a lot too. I'd like to do a study on whether guys get that reaction at the same rates.
The problem is I DO kind of want to be a teacher... but I don't like that people assume that, since there are lots of other things I might end up doing. Besides, when they say "teacher" I don't know if they're thinking "professor" or "middle school teacher" becuase there's a big difference.
yeah, I get lots of "oooh, that's hard" when I tell people I'm studying chemistry. I don't know if it's equal opportunity or not, since they never make any comment about me being female. it's always the subject.
Pre-College: I worked in a retirement home, where I heard,
"What does a pretty girl like you need to go to college for, anyway?
"Don't you have a boyfriend here?"
"Don't get more educated than any of the men you date, because they won't be interested in a girl who knows more than they do. Then you won't be able to nab a good husband."
In college: I'm a gender studies major and work for several feminist causes on campus, which leads to these little gems:
"What are you going to do when you graduate? Become a lesbian?"
"Don't come off as too much of a feminist- you'll scare all the good men away." (Obviously, the good men are anti-feminist, right?)
I honestly don't remember any sexist advice, although I'm sure there was some.
My father didn't believe I was a mechanical engineering major. He thought I was just kidding about it, then proceeded with the jokes about finding an engineering man. But now he's beside himself with pride about having an engineer in the family.
In my senior year of high school I had a meeting with my advisor (Mr. R) because I was having trouble deciding between 2 colleges. My advisor then proceeded to tell me that I should attend the richer college because I'd have a better chance of finding a rich husband.
I was already in college for two years but I had to go to the main campus to finish up my degree. Due to gas prices and the schedule doesn't exactly work with my dad's work schedule (he works near the main campus), I have to live on campus. My family didn't have a problem but my fiance's family did since we're getting married in 5 weeks. Basically they told me it was stupid for me to live in a dorm while married cause I have to live with my husband and there is no reason to live in a dorm unless you're still looking for a significant other. My fiance rolled his eyes and stated he didn't care if I lived with him or not, as long as I got my school work done. The school is about an hour away from both of our homes.
In college just a year or two ago I decided to pursue a women's studies minor. I was told more than once that I shouldn't do that if I ever wanted to get a job and/or date again.
If you want to go way back when...in fourth grade (1996) my teacher recommended me for the lowest level math class, which my mother opposed because I scored in the top 10% in math. According to the teacher I was too cute to take hard math classes.
God forbid a pretty girl should ruin her social life by getting a reputation for being /smart/, don't you know. :p
Thankfully, my school days social life was pretty much null, because I don't think I could have stood dealing with the adolescent stupidity of my popular classmates. Many of them were very smart individually, but not when they all grouped up.
This sort of happened to me, too.
When I transferred, in second grade, to Dumbfuck, East Texas, from a larger Texas college town, my teacher didn't nominate me for the "gifted and talented" program. I heard about it, and asked about it, and she grudgingly sent an application and test waiver home with me.
I took one of these tests where you fill in imaginary items on rectangles, rotate objects in your head, and shit, and got into the G&T program. I went on to outscore everyone in my high school class on the PSAT and the SAT and earn a BA and an MA. I wonder what would've happened if I hadn't pressed my teacher back in second grade.
She didn't nominate me because we weren't in the little clique of rich families in Dumbfuck, despite the fact that my stepfather was a lawyer (he was the local liberal stereotype Southern lawyer, yay!).
In spring 2007, I was considering my options for grad school and trying to visit as many of the campuses on my shortlist as possible. As my mother and I were making our way to York University in Toronto, we asked a transit cop which bus to take. His response, after telling me which bus and asking why I was going to York, was to inform me that there were three "active" serial rapists in the vicinity of the campus, and I should really consider the University of Toronto instead. "And besides," he said, "Shouldn't you be working on your MRS degree?" My mother was like, "Right... we're done here."
a number of my friends have been told by moms, aunts, and grandmothers: it's just as easy to fall in love with a rich man as a poor one! (subtext: the exorbitant tuition we pay is really just the access fee to the wealthy potential husband pool.)
I actually had a different experience, I rejected free university classes to attend a local college that had programs in my field of interest. My father saw no future outside of having a useless degree in a field I wasn't interested in.
i go to a women's college as well, and along with all the, "wait, you're not a lesbian, are you?" conversations, when my high school principal found out where i was going he told me i was going to go to school and learn how to "drink tea" and come back "all feminized" and "snooty". you'd better believe i set him straight.
Oh, but on a happier note, the pre-law advisor I spoke to a few months ago (male) had some better advice.
I was a woman entering law school, so I had better be prepared to tell people who had problems with that to fuck off.
Nice to know some advisors actually give good advice.
This wasn't really advice, but it was shitty nonetheless. I was opening a student checking account at the Chase bank near me, and the guy helping tried to make small talk by asking where I went to school. After I told him, he said "nursing or teaching?" ... like those are my only two options.