Kelly: an anti-feminist riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.
In a recent interview, singer Kelly Clarkson went off on why she's not a feminist.
Would you call yourself a feminist?No, not at all. I mean, that was the first time in my life -- which maybe I'm naïve and I've not been put in any situations like that -- but that's the first time in my life I've ever even heard someone use that mentality. I'm like, "Hey, knock-knock, 2008." Most of the men in my life have been very highly supportive. I've never had to even think like a feminist because no one around me even thinks one [sex] is higher than the other.
Really? Well it must be nice to work in an industry that's completely sexism-free! But wait...another question from the same interview.
Do you consider the record industry to be a boys' club?I just know for a fact ... why I said that was because I was actually on a phone call with two people who did not know I was on the phone, and I literally heard somebody I used to work with say, "Well, you know what, he can get away with it because it's a guy. She's a girl, so let's just face it, it's different." And I was like, "Is this the 1950s?" I hung up and didn't listen to the rest.
Does. Not. Compute.
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Oh, that's disappointing. I don't require my pop guilty pleasures be poster children for feminism, but come on Kelly!
Awh, Kelly, really? And I've always liked you soo much... It's aother example of someone not understanding at all what feminism is, and therefore not being able to see its relevance to their own life.
I am so frustrated by the mentality that sexism (like racism) is supposed to be over now, so when you see sexism around you, it's just that an individual person hasn't gotten the memo - so that's no big deal, right? *sigh*
To clarify my comment, I meant that people think that about both sexism and racism, while obviously neither is over at all.
I saw this yesterday and was similarly disappointed.
I'm glad she was able to call out some of the sexism she experienced, and am glad she hasn't noticed any other sexism in her life. However, she's still treating "feminist" like a dirty word, which I take issue over. And just because she's experienced it only once does not mean that other women experience it so little, too.
She's bought in to the bullshit about feminism told to her by non-feminists (we want women to have more rights than men, we don't like men, etc.). That makes me sad. It makes me want to teach her the truth.
I don't think I would be heartened that she has not noticed any other sexism. I think it just demonstrates how much people interpret sexism as "the normal way things are" unless it comes right out and identifies itself.
Kelly Clarkson has spent her time since Idol being constantly raked over the coals for her fluctuating weight. For a while she was treated like Jessica Simpson currently is, it was newsworthy how "gross" she was every time she gained a pound. It makes me incredibly sad that this does not come to mind when she thinks about sexism. It is something I relate to, as I certainly spent the first seventeen years of my life thinking my value as a human would plummet if I outgrew a size 2 and also thinking that the world was totally fair for women. Not recognizing that her treatment stems from sexism indicates that she thinks that kind of bullshit treatment is just natural (or maybe not, it may just indicate that her publicist told her to say that).
I don't know, I mean on one level it makes me happy that she does not feel overtly encumbered by her sex, but failing to recognize the media's treatment of her as sexist is honestly more disheartening to me than her buying into the F-word myths.
This interview makes Kelly sound like a 16 year old (no offense to the 16 year old readers who are wise beyond their years). Make sure you don't scare the boys away, Kelly!
This morning I was reminded of the Hillary Duff not-a-feminist kerfluffle when I heard that she'd said she'd "be angry too if she ended up looking like that" re: Faye Dunaway (who'd asked why a real actress wasn't chosen to play Bonnie in the remake of Bonnie & Clyde). Seriously?
Okay, this involves too really dumb things.
1) They're remaking Bonnie and Clyde, a movie that was nominated for ten Academy Awards.
2) They cast Hillary Duff?!
And I've made my comment ironic... "two"
Thats another feminist issue: Why DONT they hire actual actresses to play female roles. Why does it always go to the Jessica Simpsons and (erk...)Hillary Duff's? I always loved Faye Dunaway in "Mommy Dearest."
Another person who doesn't have the slightest clue of what feminist is and stands for.
The ammount of people of who think feminism is about women being superior to men is unbelievable.
I wish I knew what came first. I don't know if its:
a) The person misinterpreting the word (so they think "ummm, feminism.... feminism... it must be about women taking control! Simple!" and don't research about it) and then the anti-feminists explore this misunderstanding cuz it suits their agenda.
Or...
b) Anti-feminists spread this rumor and then people bough it.
According to the book, "Backlash" its more like B. Anti-feminsits spread that message in the 80's.
Well... she can sing, that doesn't require intelligence. Clearly it doesn't, she pretty much just proved that.
*sigh*
"Another person who doesn't have the slightest clue of what feminist is and stands for."
If they did know what it stood for, they would be feminists?
Well, yeah.
Or, to be more precise: if you honestly do not believe in, support, look fondly on, hope for, and/or work towards equality of the sexes, then you're probably not worth talking to.
"Another person who doesn't have the slightest clue of what feminist is and stands for."
If they did know what it stood for, they would be feminists?
To be fair, I don't think you can really assume from those comments that Clarkson is an anti-feminist as the caption states. She's just swaddled in either serious denial or serious privilege, and somehow I think it's the former.
My world has been turned upside-down, has imploded, and collapsed into a singularity. Now I just need to Google this person to see who she is.
Reading this made my face contor in disgust and frustration. These are the people our children (or, at least, that generation) look up to... And the contradictory statement she made about the boy's club thing ("Hello! It's 2008!" and "is it 1950!?") is especially frustrating. And this brings me to my main point...
Can we please have some sort of "get out the word" campaign, where we use a wide array of tactics in order to get the word out about what feminism REALLY means. You know, something like someone makes up some fliers in pdf format, we all print them off, and we start a month long campaign trying to inform the silly silly public what they're really claiming to be "against." Something tells me the number of people identifying as feminist would increase drastically if people knew what it meant. Hell, before I became a feminist I bought into the stereotypes. "Feminists are hairy manhaters who think women are better! Ick. I believe everyone is equal thank you very much." Little did I know at the time! :P Even my super intelligent friend thinks that feminism is about superiority, not equality. She said "uhm, I think I would consider myself more of a, er, humanist I guess." My question now, is how do we get the word out?
Also, apologies for my spelling errors... I'm using a public computer and the screen is messed up, making it so that I cannot see the entire text box and must guess and go based on what my fingers tell me for 1/3 of each sentence @_@
I've thought about the same thing too!
I am not so old:) but I'm older than Kelly. I am heartened that she sees some instances of where sexism occurs, I am also heartened that she seems to come across sexism infrequently. Her blinders though frighten me, and I fear it's pervasive among her age group.
I watched Cash Cab a few times lately. It's a fun show but what I noticed was, in mixed company, the women passengers picked the guy to answer the questions....every single episode that I watched this was the case.
I am sure none of these women thought anything sexist was happening but they had internalized the male being "in charge" of the conversation.
Its just an example.
I worry that many don't even see what happens every single day.. in small ways... and often.
It drives me crazy.
I am not so old:) but I'm older than Kelly. I am heartened that she sees some instances of where sexism occurs, I am also heartened that she seems to come across sexism infrequently. Her blinders though frighten me, and I fear it's pervasive among her age group.
I watched Cash Cab a few times lately. It's a fun show but what I noticed was, in mixed company, the women passengers picked the guy to answer the questions....every single episode that I watched this was the case.
I am sure none of these women thought anything sexist was happening but they had internalized the male being "in charge" of the conversation.
Its just an example.
I worry that many don't even see what happens every single day.. in small ways... and often.
It drives me crazy.
I don't think understanding what feminism is really about has anything to do with intelligence (and I think it's pretty petty for anyone to say Kelly Clarkson is stupid for her comments) and everything to do with access to information and an ability to recognize injustices in our lives as injustices, rather than "that's just the way it is".
I have very intelligent women in my life who haven't taken women's studies classes (I have, and that's what started my interest in feminism), haven't had an awakening moment where it suddenly all makes sense, who say, "I'm not a feminist, I don't hate men."
It's not for us to insult these women, but rather ramp up our efforts to educate and inform.
Exactly what you said alixana!
Starting to point fingers at Kelly Clarkson and saying she's stupid and "Oh, sigh, she doesn't get it." is not how we should go about getting people to understand feminism.
I'd say not knowing the meaning of the word feminism counts as ignorance, not stupidity.
But saying back to back that you think its 2008 so there are no gender issues left, and then that you've heard people talking in a sexist way that made you think of 1950, does make you sound kind of stupid. But she may not have thought out her interview comments ahead of time, everyone says dumb things without thinking.
Is she fureal? Like really? This might just be the most ignorant set of statements I've seen in a long while lol (besides Bush's)...She just needs an update on the definition of a feminist...she needs to get out that studio for a while n into some school books...educate, Kelly, educate yourself!
That's depressing. I like her, too.
Fine you can call me petty or whatever all you want, but yes, it WAS a stupid comment, especially when her anecdote about the phone call pretty much contradicts her claims about the lack of sexism.
And just once I'd like to see one of these mainstream manufactured singers NOT simply support the status quo. This is no different than that Hillary Duff interview where she said she couldn't be a feminist because she was against lesbianism or something along those lines. THAT was stupid too.
Weird, I always sort of thought she might have been one. I mean, as compared to say britney spears or something. How weird.
On the note of feminism and pop artists, didn't christina aguilera call herself a feminist? Or wear a feminist shirt one time or something?
I think it said "Men of quality are not threatened by women of equality"
Or was that someone else...?
I don't think she's called herself one publicly, but she wore the shirt that said "men of quality are not threatened by women of equality' or it was pretty close to that.
I don't know Kelly Clarkson and certainly don't know the level of her intelligence, but I'm surprised no one here seems to acknowledge the rhetorical value in the way Clarkson is framing the issue. By positioning "feminism" as a fulfilled movement which has accomplished its goals (clearly a difficult position to defend on an analytical level), she can assume an authoritative voice with regards to aberrations in the presumed existent gender equality and cast those aberrations not simply as something that ought to change but as something that the particular individual has failed to understand has already been changed. This is a strong rhetorical strategy, in my opinion. If gender is the performance which we enact routinely, Clarkson's performance is structurally powerful in its critique of the dominant sex/gender system in which we live. At least, that's how I read the quotes.
Oh, and btw, arguing about "what feminism really is" is soooooooo 1970's. :)
wow... i really am not sure what to make of all the "kelly clarkson is stupid/dumb" comments. lack of information does not make a person an idiot. cognative dissonance does not make a person stupid. and seeing this comment as the over riding sentiment has me feeling really icky.
because i can totally see where she's coming from. i'm still not always comfortable calling myself a feminist. and i certainly don't share ideology with certain sections of feminism (ie radical feminism), or even certain parts of "main stream" feminism. i think XXLAshley and alixana have the right idea, with the get out the word posts. but also, feminism has to be accessable on a level that someone can relate to.
i haven't been victimized in a significant way, either emotionally or physically, and i am very fortunate. and i know this. but it makes it hard for someone like me to relate to certain thoughts and ideas, especially regarding fear. but body autonomy issues and unrealistice beauty standards, yeah i've had loads of experience with them and that's my in road. but geting into those topic i'm not personally invested in is not something i feel ready to approach. and maybe that's what needs to be addressed when the question of getting 20 something women and younger involved gets raised.
and yeah, there is a prevailing idea of what feminists are and should be. raised not just by people who are anti-feminist, but also by feminists who have their way of doing and being, and seem less willing to comprimise. and usually they have the loudest voices, or are at least given the most air time (another matter entirely). what i'm getting at in a round about way is just a desire to acknowledge that feminism means so many things, many of which are frightening. not everyone wants to claim that label.
Q: Would you call yourself a Kelly Clarkson fan?
A: No. Not at all.
Before anyone accuses me of disliking her only because she doesn't call herself a feminist, let me assure you. I've never been a fan of Kelly Clarkson. I'm just happier about it today then I was yesterday.
I agree totally with alixana. She even says in the interview, "maybe I'm naive...I've never had to even think like a feminist."
I think ignorance is the main cause of the, "I'm not a feminist, but.." mentality and I don't see why we're bashing someone like Kelly Clarkson who, in all other aspects of her career, HAS been a positive and, dare I say, feminist influence for young girls, whether she conciously knows it or not..
I think this is a case more of ignorance than anything else. Remember that Kelly comes from a small Texas town in the Bible belt. I've been there...my mentor/good-as-mom and her husband moved to the same town a couple years ago and ended up "joining" a church just so they had something to say when people asked about it. Everyone I've met there is very nice, but the stigma that feminism is all about lesbianism, atheism, and other liberal concepts. There are not a lot of progressive theories getting tossed around in that area. Perhaps if she got some lessons on what modern feminism means she would consider herself more of a feminist.
I think this is a case more of ignorance than anything else. Remember that Kelly comes from a small Texas town in the Bible belt. I've been there...my mentor/good-as-mom and her husband moved to the same town a couple years ago and ended up "joining" a church just so they had something to say when people asked about it. Everyone I've met there is very nice, but the stigma that feminism is all about lesbianism, atheism, and other liberal concepts. There are not a lot of progressive theories getting tossed around in that area. Perhaps if she got some lessons on what modern feminism means she would consider herself more of a feminist.
You know...listening to the lyrics of "Miss Independent"...they sound completely different to me now.
I'm not mad at her she doesn't want to be identified with some of the folks hailed as feminist leaders. Basically she is saying I'm not one of those humorless tightass chicks, I'm cool and fun to be around. In the media feminist= angry shouting woman. No, in the minds of most guys feminist= angry shouting woman. Nobody wants to be that.
Me thinks Ms Clarkson has been caught in the Nelly Furtado web. "Go ahead sing pro-woman songs, but say no to being feminist." Fuckity fuck, Kelly! I blame myself. After years of holding out, I finally bought her album on iTunes.
Well, Clarkson also claims that she could "never be a lesbian" http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/090203/entertainment/centertainment_us_clarkson_1
She believes that women (such as herself) are neurotic and crazy while men are the rational, calming sex which women need to make them less "crazy".
By this logic she claims that she could "never be with someone like herself" [meaning women].
I'm not trying to defend her contradiction or her ignorance, but, Jessica, I think the way you posted this makes Kelly seem more like an idiot.
I read both questions in full in the interview and her response makes much more sense in context. I don't think flipping the questions around is very fair.
Mmmmm....yeah its pretty fair. She said shes not a feminist (an proceeds to tear it down) yet can identify sexism and view it as wrong but doesnt see the connection between the two. Its pretty fair to me.
She obviously contradicted herself and obviously doesn't realize feminism is a solution to sexism. But I think reading her answers in context makes a lot more sense than the way they were posted here. Instead of thinking, "Wow, she's a fucking dumbass," I'm now thinking, "She's very ignorant."
For example, when I read the first paragraph, I thought "mentality" referred to a feminist mentality and that - hey - it's 2008 and we don't need feminism anymore. I didn't realize, until clicking the link, that she's referring to sexism.
Anyway, it may have just been a misunderstanding on my part, but I found this misleading.
I think instead of becoming defensive or accusatory, we need to look at this as some very real feedback, no? Sure, we can say she needs to educate herself on feminism, sexism, etc. But really, as feminists, don't we need to do more education? One of my favorite feminist texts is bell hooks' Feminism is for Everybody. And while she lays out the very real barriers to feminist work, she also points to the need for more of it. Feminism is so located within academia, now more than ever. Is it really her fault she doesn't have a good working definition of feminism? Let's not fault her for not having an MA in Gender Studies, or even a Gender Studies 101 course. Let's take it up as a mission, one that was abandoned a few decades ago, and make sure less and less women feel this way.
When I saw this here, I wrote about it on my own blog (giving credit of course) and somebody commented on my little article. I never get any comments except from my mom, husband, and a few friends. I guess somebody was googling Kelly Clarkson and came across my blog - and didn't really like what they read. Somebody responded before I had a chance to. Check it out if you have a minute.
http://sunshinemorningstar.blogspot.com/2009/02/kelly-speaks-before-thinking.html
Don't you know? Feminism = man-hating!
But seriously,
What's funny is she even says "What is this? 1950?" Does she realize what happened in the 60's that made the 70's different from the 50's? FEMINISM!!!
ARRRRRRGGGGGHH!
This is another reason that pop music is bad for the spirit & the brain. Take that ignorance & vapid complacency, put a bass line to it, shrink wrap it, and sell it to the kids. Guh.
I think this is another example of a young woman being afraid of the "F-word." So many people out there don't realize what it truly means to be a feminist and think feminist=hideous she-beast. Kelly, go read Jessica Valenti's book Full Frontal Feminism!
Well, I think that if someone has only been exposed to the stereotypes of feminism and knows no one close who would call themselves a feminist, then their idea of what it means to be a feminist would be skewed. I am in a feminism class right now. I chose to take it because it was a subject I knew very little about it (no education in it and no friends/family members with whom I had ever discussed it)and the professor teaching it is a favorite. Many of the other people in the class are active in the feminist group on our campus or have at least taken another women studies class, so in comparison with my classmates, I felt very ignorant going into it. We are three months in and I have learned so much. If, four months ago, I had been asked the same question as the interviewer asked Kelly Clarkson, I might have given a similar response - and I would blame it all on ignorance. With the little education I have had in the are, my response would be much different. We can't always blame people for their ignorance; instead of getting angry with them we should find ways to educate them instead - so next time when she is asked that question, regardless of what her answer may be, she will know exactly what she means by it and won't contradict herself.