Via the f word, we find out that Amanda Palmer of Dresden Dolls fame has left her record label after they refused to promote her new single and video (above) because of her "fat" stomach. Seriously.
[Palmer] refused to let them remove shots of her "fat" belly from the video for Leeds United (see above), and is therefore "uncommercial". This comes from a metal label where, I have it on good authority, "you can count the number of women on the fingers of one hand and most of the people on the label are decidedly chunky hairy dudes".Amanda's fans are quite rightly outraged by this shoddy, sexist behaviour and have begun a Rebellyon, posting pictures of their own bellies on fan forum Shadowbox and sending them to Roadrunner in protest.
Too ridiculous for words - but you've gotta love awesome fans taking action.
P.S. Community poster lefthandedpenguin beat us to this punch on this last week!
UPDATE/CORRECTION: Palmer has not left her label - they won't let her. She gives the full story here.
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i didn't SEE a "fat" belly in this video!
this isn't just sexist, it's disgusting behavior on the part of the record label.
That woman has a fat belly?
I was watching that video JUST to see this now infamous fat and could not find it. I wonder how they saw it in the first place? Do corporations just reach into hats and draw reasons to make women feel bad about their bodies?
"So today we're going to tell her - let's just reach in here and draw from the hat - alright I picked 'nostril hair' guys. When she's comes in, mention the visibility her nostril hair"
what hell do they think is the average weight?
I would've called her skinny, but then again, what do i know? I'm clearly eating a hippo a day under their standards of weight.
On what planet is Amanda Palmer fat? WTF? Why did they even have her in a video with an open shirt if they thought she was so unsightly?
I could only breeze through the video (since I was at work), but I saw no such thing. It's so ridiculous.
I still must buy this album, btw...
I love Amanda- she's fantastic. And good for her for sticking to her guns.
You totally should get the album - it's a masterpiece.
What do you think they're more afraid of -- that her single wouldn't sell with shots of her "fat" belly in the video, or that it would and they'd lose an excuse for controlling women?
I find her tremendously sexy, for her music as much as anything else. Ironically, I didn't even know she had a new solo project until now . . . so the record label's failure to publicize is what alerted me.
Thank you for posting this, I was just on my way to posting it in the community when I saw it was already here. I am in disbelief over this. I mean, what were they thinking?? Even if there were an even vaguely noticeable jiggle to her wiggle, this is Amanda Palmer, it's not like she's ever marketed herself as the kind of pop princess you'd expect this attitude towards...
Dear Roadrunner Records,
Thanks once again for reminding women that waif-thin is the way to go!
Yours,
Melanie
P.S. I hate you for making me hate myself.
P.P.S. Amanda Palmer looks good and you know it.
This is pure stupidity. She is not fat at all..she looks to be the same size as me. I really applaud her bravery, and that record company is just so blind as all the other modeling companies out there that require thin...
Ah, the beautiful irony! The lyrics "Who needs love when there's law and order? Who needs love when there's dukes of hazard?" gave me an amplified chill in the context of this ridiculous debacle.
I think you must have linked to the wrong video, all I saw was a very attractive and athletic appearing woman doing a mediocre Cabaret (or Chicago possibly) knock-off video.
She certainly isn't built any bigger than artists like Pink or Beyonce.
For the record and just to be fair do we have independant confirmation that her label actually stated this? Because I would never be shocked to hear a recording artist lied about something for either attention or sympathy.
Having paid attention to this particular musician's career for years, and having even met her once upon a time ages and ages ago, I will be absolutely floored if she's making this up.
Also, FWIW -- The part you were picking up on as a "knock-off" (besides the general aesthetic, maybe, which goes along pretty well with the aesthetic she's been doing for years) might've been what sounds to me like a (possibly ironic) musical homage to "I Was Made for Lovin' You," which starts at about 2:21 -- the song is originally by KISS, actually, although loads of people have covered it (it showed up in Moulin Rouge in a more "caberet" style, for example).
To be fair, isn't Cabaret, the musical revival! just a knock-off of Cabaret, the movie which is just a knock-off of the original stage musical which is just a knock-off of actual cabaret of the German Deutsch-Reich period? I didn't know the writers of the original had the patent on turn of the century club entertainment, and thus, the only one would could draw inspiration therein.
(P.S. punk cabaret/gypsy has been a fast growing sub-genre for quite some time now. Many would credit the Dresden Dolls for it's sudden popularity several years ago.)
Well, shit. I always thought Amanda Palmer was incredibly hot, but now that I know she has imperceptible belly fat, I have no alternative but to shun her forever.
Oh, sorry. I think I got some sarcasm on your blog. A little soda water should get that out right quick.
(Amanda's fondness for her own belly leads to videos like these, btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH61TNZ1a4A )
That was such a nice video... I wish a lot of girls with self-esteem issues would see that...it made me feel better..
That video was amazing. She's a phenomenal performer and it is so great to see someone so confident about her body.
Ugh. WHAT A HUGE DISGUSTING BELLY OMG.
Sarcasm of course. It angers me that girls with such cute features, much like that belly, dislike them.
So what if she's fat? The woman can fucking sing.
well i can't wait to get my fat ass to her show on dec 3rd so we can just chill in the fattening music together
she's not fat at all. she's skinnier then i am by the looks of it. her stomach might have looked bigger in a couple shots when the camera got her from the side but that's normal for a tummy to stick out a bit when looked at by the side. especially if it's muscular like she appears to be. her stomach is completely flat, yeah if you get a shot of someone's tummy from the side there going to look like it's on the fat side but sheesh the people at roadrunner need to learn to accept that the only way her stomach could be any flatter is for her to starve to death and then photoshop it. roadrunner you need to stop trying to twist all women into unnaturally thin stereo-types. as it is she's lucky when it came to genes in the looks department.
I am in awesome shape. I run about 25 miles a week, work out with weights, follow a pescatarian diet, and generally try to keep my body healthy.
My belly looks exactly like Ms. Palmer's. Once women reach a certain age and don't restrict yummy foods or beer (and limit ourselves to less than 2 hours of exercise a day), most of us get bellies no matter how much we work out.
I wouldn't trade my belly for anything. It's sexy as hell and evidence that I actually enjoy my life.
I love Amanda Palmer and, although disgusted by her label's actions, am delighted that she refused to accede to their stupid demands. Amanda's pretty average, based on what I can determine, but even if she was heavier than average it wouldn't matter - women shouldn't be ashamed to show their bellies.
Metal fans take note, by the way. Here is the list of other artists on the label... I seem to remember a post ages ago in the community section on gender issues in the metal scene, but I can't seem to find it. Seems like now would be a ripe time for someone more intimately familiar with that scene to write about it.
This news is shocking, considering that Nightwish and Within Temptation-- Both very popular female-fronted metal bands-- are on Roadrunner. I've never heard any news about Anette or Sharon being told they are not beautiful, but now, with both bands trying to break into the American scene... It's kind of worrying that they would say something like this to one of their artists.
This news is shocking, considering that Nightwish and Within Temptation-- Both very popular female-fronted metal bands-- are on Roadrunner. I've never heard any news about Anette or Sharon being told they are not beautiful, but now, with both bands trying to break into the American scene... It's kind of worrying that they would say something like this to one of their artists.
This news is shocking, considering that Nightwish and Within Temptation-- Both very popular female-fronted metal bands-- are on Roadrunner. I've never heard any news about Anette or Sharon being told they are not beautiful, but now, with both bands trying to break into the American scene... It's kind of worrying that they would say something like this to one of their artists.
Keith Kahn-Harris did the first in-depth sociological study of the metal scene. He published it a few years ago as a book called Extreme Metal: Music and Culture on the Edge.
Unfortunately, gender issues, as well as issues of homophobia, were not given the time/space I would have liked to see. They mostly took a backseat to a discussion of racism within the scene (which is also important and just as interesting in its history). In my personal experience within the scene, people are more comfortable discussing issues of racism than issues of sexism. I think this is because the majority of metal fans are Caucasian heterosexual males. It's easier to discuss an issue that affects an "other" than it is to discuss issues that directly relate to you and your interactions with other people of the same/opposite sex.
I've sometimes thought about writing about the tension that exists between feminism and metal. I personally feel very attached to both my feminist values and the ideas that have drawn me to metal, but it does sometimes result in some upsetting cognitive dissonance.
I'd be really interested in reading your thoughts on it. I've had some limited interaction with the metal scene, and there have always seemed to be very weird and complicated things going on there gender-wise. I was never ensconced in it enough to get a good handle on what was going on, though.
i don't now if i'm missing the link, but i clicked on them here and on the f-word - is there any link to a statement by palmer or to a news article? i'd like to send the story out to some friends but am looking for the news source... sorry, haven't had coffee yet..
Here is Amanda Palmer's blog entry in which she mentions it herself, saying:
the label i’m on (roadrunner records) had wanted to pull shots from the video so that my bare belly wasn’t exposed. they thought i looked fat. i thought they were on crack.
The fan thread here says that she sent out an email to the fan list, saying:
the fine folks at roadrunner records wanted us to re-cut this video so that shots of my belly wouldn't be included.
they basically told me that i looked too fat.
i told them to fuck off.
Regarding the amazing fan reaction, this post at wearsthetrousers includes the following quote from a fan, about Rebellyon's mission:
This is not just about Amanda Palmer’s belly. This is about all the bellies of the world: Big, small, hairy, stretch-marked, scarred, pregnant, every single belly. The aim is to reclaim the belly; to promote a healthy body image for everyone (not just females) and to protest against the “barbie dolling” of artists by record companies and the media.
And just for some warm fuzzies, see here for the amazing picture gallery full of "belly love" put together by the Rebellyon group :D
thank you thank you! i'll be sending this out to some friends.
THanks for posting about this. I've been following the rebellyon since it broke out. There's a flickr group devoted to the images, too. Amanda's new album is great. Too bad her record company is filled with imbeciles (apologies to the imbeciles are probably deserved now).
I can't believe they'd even risk losing her, either, just from a purely business standpoint. I mean, there's pretty much no way she won't at least continue being really successful, and will probably only become moreso -- I mean, people have really started talking about her over the past little while. She's started doing collaborative work with Neil Gaiman, even (and this very video is posted on one of his own recent blogs).
It's just stunning to me how people completely lose not just a sense of civility but even sheer common sense when they have to deal with a woman coloring even imperceptibly outside the lines.
No one seems to be mentioning the ovarios it takes for an artist to walk away from her label. Good for her for taking her booty elsewhere, and for speaking up about the atrocious behavior of Roadrunner. What a cool woman she is.
I've been reading feministing for years, and as a woman in the music biz, I am disappointed that you are even posting about this.
Looking at Soundscan, I can tell you that the video was probably pulled because Amanda’s album isn't selling. It’s always a business decision to stop pouring money into something that isn't recouping. Doesn’t matter if you are male or female. If they really did say this, show me proof! Evidence! Not a blog post! The 2 heads of marketing over there are ultra PC (one female) and I can’t believe she would have ever said this.
Also - You have it on "good authority" that all the guys are hairy and there are barely any women working at RR? You have obviously never set foot in any of the offices. There are tons of women working their asses off over there and the male pattern baldness is so prevalent, you would think there was something in the water. ;)
Who are you trying to fool?
C’mon now, this is one of the most lookest businesses in the world---and that means that “looks” are a big part of the “business decisions.” And those decisions are different for women than they are for men. Now, I don’t totally blame the business for this societal ill, but to deny that it exists is dopey.
Since you speak of evidence, and you seem to have an inside track on the goings on "over there"---how many female stars do they have and how many are male? Those numbers would be great indicators---or indictments, for that matter.
You'd think that looks wouldn't matter to the label that signed the likes of Slipknot and Cradle of Filth. Somehow, it makes the sexist double standard even bigger.
They said fat men and hardly any women were the ARTISTS on the label, I believe.
And how do you know how "PC" the heads of marketing are? (the fact one is female isn't good enough) You've met them and had discussions about specific issues?
Finally, since her label refused to promote the Album, couldn't that be the reason it's not selling? (as opposed to vice versa)
I think the reference to hairy dudes and few women at RR was about the musicians signed, not the people working there.
But I agree with the rest - I think some things got mixed up. This is what she said about it on her Myspace:
i sent a mailer about the video mentioning that the label i'm on (roadrunner records) had wanted to pull shots from the video so that my bare belly wasn't exposed. they thought i looked fat. i thought they were on crack.
dude. i'm a vain motherfucker. i know when i look fat. i had beth hanging out on the set of the pope videos, keeping an eye on my figure as i pranced around in my slip in case pope was getting a particularly pregnant-looking angle. i hate shots of myself where i look heavy with child.
but THIS?? this was just nonsense. i thought i looked HOT. i really, really didn't see where they were coming from. at all.
so i didn't budge.
they weren't happy, but then again they're not very happy with anything i'm doing lately (including putting out a record that has "no commercial potential" and is impossible to promote, since nobody will like it).
the video was left as is.
I don't think she ever implied that the video was uncommercial because of the belly issue, and that that's why they didn't promote it. She recognizes that her record isn't an easy sell. And yeah, she doesn't say anything about breaking with them at all, and though I didn't go through the whole sixty page thread on her fan forum, I can't find anything to indicate that she did apart from the post on F-Word.
Though RoadRunner were assholish, no doubt about it. Don't mess with Amanda Palmer!
... Does it really matter that this may not be the "only" reason the label didn't want to promote her? The fact that her body is brought up as a "problem" at all is disgusting, no matter what her sales.
I agree, but I think it does insofar that it's easy to discredit the whole issue if it's not reported about carefully. Personally, I think F-Word should've mentioned their source. I believe Amanda Palmer (she's awesome) and that RR were dickheads, but I can't find that she stated both that she's looking for a new label and that it's because of this issue, as F-Word wrote. But I might be wrong.
(I hope this comment will actually turn up where it's meant to be - I'm still figuring this out, it appears!)
It makes more sense as a publicity stunt.
If she actually had a big belly, I might find it easier to believe.
then again, vocalists have gotten away with having a good enough voice that body didn't matter-
or that their bodies changed what matters
as in the cases of
Aretha Franklin, Etta James, Ella Fitzgerald, Pink,
Beyonce (changed what is expected by being "thick") J-Lo (making ass acceptable by "white" people too)
and so many others...
“...most of the people on the label are decidedly chunky hairy dudes".
You forgot to mention they are also mostly ugly and talentless.
I find it ironic that in a thread about unrealistic body standards and stereotyped beauty, you find it appropriate to call other artists on the RoadRunner label "ugly and talentless."
What a bunch of dicks. First, from the few shaky, moving shots of her dancing, you can't hardly see her belly at all, maybe for a whole 5 seconds total.
Second, she's gorgeous.
I guess having one barely-pudgy woman among the crowd of scantily clad, thin circus burlesque dancers was just TOTALLY unacceptable. 100% of the women must be thin.
I get what a lot of people are saying here about how Palmer isn't fat. I agree, but current American standards she isn't fat.
But I'm also a little uncomfortable with the reaction "but she's not fat!" What if she was fat? Fat does not equal untalented or bad or something.
Well if she was fat we'd be talking about how that doesn't make her any less talented or deserving of promotion, but she's not, so we're talking about fucked up ideas of acceptable body types, what is and is not considered fat. Namely why the hell is amanda considered fat by anyone?!
shsally, I agree.
But I think there's something important about acknowledging how ridiculous our ideas of what thin and fat looks like have become.
Even if Amanda Palmer was fat, the label would be incredibly out of line for telling her to change it.
But the fact that she isn't even fat adds a whole new fucked up level to it because it shows how unattainable beauty standards have gotten.
If fat it ugly, and Amanda Palmer is considered fat, then where does that leave most of us? It's insane to think about.
Although the body fascist attitude of the label is disgusting, I can't believe Feministing would defend an artist who makes light of rape and abortion in her song 'Oasis'.
Rape jokes are NOT OK.
I'm pretty sure the song isn't meant to represent her own personal belief system. It seems to mostly lampoon what society finds important.
Especially given that she dedicated the video to Sarah Palin, I can't think that she's making fun of the issue.
Agreed. This whole video is clearly a parody of fan-dom and how the media portrays young women. I mean, listen to the lyrics - the whole song is about how this girl sees nothing past her oasis obsession, not even the gravity of the horrible stuff that's happening to her!
It would be a shame for a woman who's so independent and critical of society in her work to be ignored by the feminist community for a moment of irreverence.
She doesn't make light of rape and abortion. On the page for that song she has a link to Planned Parenthood and she sarcastically dedicated it to Sarah Palin.(According to her blog she voted for Obama FWIW).
I completely understand the teenage character in the song obsessing over her favorite band in light of her rape/abortion. It's a coping/defense mechanism. When I was raped as a 14 year old I was unable to deal with it for the first three years, and all I did was obsess over MY favorite bands at the time. I couldn't handle talking about what I'd been through yet. The lyrics of this song are very poignant for me.
Oh, and no, Amanda Palmer is not fat.
@Vagina Warrior
Um that song is a satire on Sarah Palin's views on rape... duh!
...anybody else think one of the dancers looks strangely like Sarah Haskins?
Yes! The one who gets in the fight with another dancer toward the end, right? I thought the exact same thing watching it!
This is from the label that signed Nickelback (thereby allowing them to be heard by ANYONE?)
What else can one expect from people who know NOTHING about music.
Props to feministing for picking this up!
I'm in love with Amanda Palmer, now even more so.
WTF are they talking about? She looks super hot in this video!!! No pudge in sight - just normal "hey I've got some organs in here". If she's too fat, I'm too fat, and according to my BMI, I'm officially underweight.
Wow, I can't even believe how many people already know and love Amanda!! Yayy!! :) Also, I heard she split from her record label now, but I don't have a source on this... :/
I saw posts she herself made about this on various LJ communities. Disgusting. Even if she were fat, would it matter? Of course not.
On a creepy note: I'd be honored to be caught under her epic girth. You know, if you get my drift.
She seems like a doll.
Bunny: YES!!!!!
OK, I love The Dresden Dolls in general and Amanda Palmer in particular. It surprises me that a label would be so dumb and looks-centered as to reject an artist of AP's caliber based on her failure to fit into the standard mold of skinny female. She's a healthy weight and I don't think it's bad to be happy with that. Even if the label had other reasons for dropping her, it's still a terrible excuse and a terrible thing to say.
I think she is beautiful and her body is more on the thin side than not.
What confuses me is, even if the label is strictly concerned with their male (gaze) buying customers, it doesn't make sense.
Haven't they ever been to a strip club?
A belly like hers, not fat, not flat, not stretch marked by birth is considered sexy by most western, hetero males.
Her actual fans seem to think she is beautiful and probably aren't as interested in her natural beauty/body type as much as her style.
Who do they think is their demographic?
I'm glad to see the response from her fans.
Where is this "fat" stomach they speak of?
All I see is the gorgeous Amanda Palmer!
Love Amanda. Stunning performer. As far as the record label, good riddance.
Is a line of conventionally beautiful women dancing and writhing not enough?! Now beautiful Amanda, in a classic and somewhat androgynous (sexyyyy) outfit, needs to have an itty-bitty figure or cover all up? Like I said, good riddance. Palmer will be snatched up by a better label before we know it.
Uh - Where is the fat belly they speak of? I saw none.
Sorry, but this report is incorrect - she did say "fuck you" but as someone who's subscribed to her mailing list and blog, she hasn't (even if I wish she had) broken with Roadrunner.
I got curious and did some snooping around -- from here a couple weeks ago:
i really, really am not happy with the record label. i'm working to get off.
So, perhaps has not broken with Roadrunner yet.
Yeah, she has made comments to that effect, I hadn't noticed that one though, I'm not on the forums - thanks for that.
I really do hope she gets on a different label, or starts to produce her own music a la Ani DiFranco and multitudes of other badass artists. This one seems to not get it at all, and not just for the "belly fat" issue.
I think she should start her own label and call it "Rebellyon Records" :D
The record label is right - Amanda Palmer does appear to have body fat, I guess that's the new working definition for "fattie" in the industry.
The record label is right - Amanda Palmer does appear to have body fat, I guess that's the new working definition for "fattie" in the industry.
She is not fat.. probably making an excuse to get rid of her because she did the whole Palin parody video thing, one way of censoring free speech and keeping women locked under that glass sealing? Damn oppressors
Oh my word. I remember being at an Amanda Palmer gig a couple of weeks ago and hearing her bring this up. The audience were all - obviously - on Amanda's side on this one: the record company were being ridiculous.
Still, I do hear a lot of criticism of Amanda and her body from supposed fans. A common point of contention is the fact that she's not completely shaved all over; i.e. during a gig you may catch sight of a few stray armpit hairs. Oh noes, your poor, innocent eyes!!! Clearly the problem is with her and her body, not you and your sexist, body-judging values! /sarcasm
I love Amanda Palmer and her songs talk about some pretty serious issues... Oasis for example has a really upbeat style but that doesn't mean she is making fun of rape or abortion by any means. The lyrics go like this... judge for yourself...
when i got to the party
they gave me a forty
and i must've been thirsty
cause i drank it so quickly
when i got to the bedroom
there was somebody waiting
and it isn't my fault
that the barbarian raped me
when i went to get tested
i brought along my best friend
melissa mahoney
who had once been molested
and she knew how to get there
she knew all the nurses
they were all really friendly
but the test came out positive
uh-oh
I've seen better days but i don't care
I just sent a letter in the mail
when i got my abortion
i brought along my boyfriend
we got there an hour
before the appointment
and outside the building
there were all these annoying
fundamentalist christians
we tried to ignore them
oh-oh
i've had better days but i don't care
oasis got my letter in the mail
when vacation was over
the word was all over
that i was a crack whore
melissa had told them
and so now were not talking
except we have tickets
to see blur in october
and i think were still going
oh-oh
i've seen better days but i don't care
oh i just got a letter in the mail
oasis sent a photograph
its autographed and everything
melissa's gonna wet herself
i swear
I mean, my read on it is that she's posturing satirically as the image of irresponsible teen girls that the media (et al) propagates.
Knowing her and a lot of her tragic history, my guess is that this is a comedic retelling of something that actually happened to her.
Hey all,
Don't know if anyone bothered to oh, you know, fact check this, but as a music journalist I was intrigued when I saw it and contacted her label. Take the following with a grain of salt, but they told me that Amanda is still signed to the label, and they will be shooting three more videos for her album in order to release a DVD companion to the album. That sounds like promotion to me!
Bands can't just leave their label when the label pisses them off -- many of them have restrictive contracts and they'd have to buy their masters back in order to get out. It makes sense -- labels spend a lot of money upfront to pay for recording, touring, and video costs, and they need to turn a profit somehow.
So yeah, Roadrunner and Amanda probably disagreed over the video, which is pretty much par for the course. But ask yourself -- why would a label refuse to promote an album? They'd just be shooting themselves in the foot, because they'd lose money.
Not to harp on this blog, but it really, really bugs me when people just reprint shit without bothering to verify it. A few months back, Be Your Own Pet threw a huge fit about Universal "censoring" them because the label refused to release certain violent tracks. A lot of people just took the band at their word. When I talked to Universal, they told me that they declined to release the tracks, but also agreed to let the band out of their contract temporarily so they could find a new distributor -- a fact the band conveniently forgot to mention.
cort5680 - Exactly. I really think she assumed that she could get dropped from the label by creating a controversy and clogging up their servers. The whole "fat" thing is nonsense, esp since there are other things in the video that MTV would redlight in .0002 seconds.
Note: When you are dropped, you do not have to pay back the tons of $ that you did not recoup.
This whole debacle sort of reminds me of that scene in "School of Rock," where Jack Black is telling the little girl she's not too fat to sing.
"Ok, you've heard of Aretha Franklin right? She's a big lady. But when she sings, she blows people's minds! Everyone wants to party with Aretha!"
It's horribly facetious, but I had to say it.
Not saying Amanda's fat, though. Not by any stretch, oh no no no no no. She looks like...well, a normal person.
With pencil-thin eyebrows and an incredible contralto.
"a few weeks later i had a meeting with the owner of the label. he said he thought it was a shame that someone as smart and talented as me could not make a commercial record that they could sell. and he thinks that someday i’ll see the light and write some better songs.
i told him i made exactly the record i wanted to make."
Words cannot describe how infuriated I am by this disgusting label. If they think Amanda's belly is even remotely fat, GO LOOK AT MINE...
Where's my damn camera? u_u'
Someone may have already said this -- okay, probably -- but can we all take a second to acknowledge the extraordinary beauty and artistry of both song and video? This is ART.
Her body is beautiful. Healthy bodies are beautiful
No.
And she isn't.
My sarcasm; Wow, her midsection looks almost identical to mine (and almost every other average jane) in skintone, size and shape. I guess I must be worth less as an artist and woman. What a releif that I found out this way and not in some embarrassing sexual or beach-related incident.
Dresden Dolls are fab and Amanda Palmer is sexy as hell.