Your very own virtual girlfriend to beat up
This is just so unbelievably disturbing. A new Japanese augmented reality (AR) software program features a "virtual girlfriend" that literally allows you to hit her with a paddle her until she cries.
All she seems to do is sweep the floor until you undress and paddle her until she cries herself into a fetal position, in which then you give her a teddy bear so she'll become happy again.
(Possible trigger warning)
This isn't a virtual girlfriend at all; this is a virtual torture victim.
h/t to reader Trish
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Wow, this is totally creepster.
And what's with the dinosaur at the end?
complete double standard, as recently a japanese woman was arrested and may face five years in prison for killing her virtual husband in the online game "second life"
i've been an avid fan of videogames and manga for a long time but i've noticed there still seems to be issues with how japanese culture views women in society.
"i've noticed there still seems to be issues with how japanese culture views women in society."
Isn't that true for every culture?
Totally true: it's not exactly fair to single out a culture for being patriarchal/misogynist when American culture is so messed up.
"complete double standard, as recently a japanese woman was arrested and may face five years in prison for killing her virtual husband in the online game "second life""
I think you're confused. Her "virtual husband" was an internet account that the owner invested a lot of time and money to create, which became a part of his "virtual property". "killing" that account was seen as destruction of his property, just like if she were to destroy his car. That's why she was sentenced. There have also been cases where kids steal virtual items from online accounts and have been sentenced to jail.
Am I missing something, or is that extremely silly?
Right, but the problem with this was that she received 5 years, while sometimes people who do worse stuff (like kill ACTUAL people) only receive 2 years or suspended sentences.
I guess she should have said she was stressed with work, or "I just wanted to kill someone." Apparently those are much better reasons to commit a crime and you might do less time.
(Just want to add that every day I hope I won't be in the wrong place at the wrong time when someone decides they are just stressed with work or just want to kill someone. It's been happening a lot recently.)
Did she actually get 5 years, or was it just a possibility? Either way it's a ridiculous sentence anyway you look at it.
Sorry to be nitpick-y, but I think it was the game Maple Story. In Second Life (I'm an avid participant) there are whole areas in which you can be injured or die (called damage areas) but you just pop up back in your "home" location. I can't count how many times I've died or killed, usually accidentally.
Source please?
I believe you are confused about the story in question.
She wasn't convicted for some strange sort of virtual murder but rather for illegally accessing a computer, manipulating electronic data, and fraudulently posing as him by using his identification and password to log onto popular interactive game "Maple Story" in order to carry out the virtual murder.
The virtual murder was not the crime - it was the several non-virtual laws she broke to do it.
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081023/ap_on_re_as/as_japan_avatar_murder
Whoops. I'm only the 690th person to make this exact same correction. I will refresh before making comments in the future.
"Considering the fact that one of the U.S.'s most popular video games allows its players to kill prostitutes"
V, the player can kill pretty much anyone in that game, prostitues as well as cops, etc...
And Battle:
"complete double standard, as recently a japanese woman was arrested and may face five years in prison for killing her virtual husband in the online game "second life"
Not really though, as I believe the situation involved another real live individual (the 'owner' of the charector killed).
Ladies, this is strange indeed, but let's try to not get offended by every little thing
Look at most first (and third) person shooters, the realistic ones (like Gears of War and Call of Duty 4) don't allow you to play as female characters. In fact, in Call of Duty you won't find a woman (or child) in the entire country that you're battling in.
In Left 4 Dead, there is Zoey, a non-sexualized female lead and player character in the biggest FPS and PC game of the year.
In Half Life 2, Half Life 2 Episode 1, and Half Life 2 Episode 2 is Alyx Vance, another main character.
In Velvet Assassin, an upcoming game, the playable character is a female who is also non-sexualized.
There are many more examples, but these are recent. Of course there are also hundreds of games where there are females in minor roles, or females as enemies or people you can kill (just like men). you seem to forget that many games take place in a historical context, for example WWII games- how often, without researching, would you see a woman fighting against you in a battle?
Also, there seems to be a contradiction. you complain when there ARE females that you can kill, but you also complain when there AREN'T? You can't have it both ways, and you shouldn't, either.
Also... Gears of War, realistic? Men wearing super suits with scientifically impossible weapons fighting aliens amidst a sea of ectoplasm? You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
complete double standard, as recently a japanese woman was arrested and may face five years in prison for killing her virtual husband in the online game "second life"
i've been an avid fan of videogames and manga for a long time but i've noticed there still seems to be issues with how japanese culture views women in society.
Absolutely! I don't get why the idea of adolescent girls constantly shrieking and crying is considered cute or common, but it has a different cultural significance.
Wow, that would be horrible, but the write up kind of misrepresents it.
From the video the paddle looks more like the function tool to change outfits like a dress up doll, and I think the "fetal position" was playing off her being tired of changing. (I don't speak Japanese, but have a passing familiarity with Japanese pop culture.)I mean, the character literally crawls out of a cube, I don't think anyone thinks this means the company is making light of keeping women in boxes.
Obviously the interpretation is subjective, but I think calling this "torture" really minimizes actual torture.
Incidentally from the poor quality of the video, I wonder if this more a spoof or an amateur project, than the actual commercial.
I ran the page for the product through Babelfish and it appears to me that the paddle is used over the cube for directing the action of the virtual figure on the computer screen.
Granted, the idea of a virtual girlfriend is pretty creepy, but I don't think the write up is entirely accurate.
Right, the paddle looks like it's a manipulation tool, as opposed to a teeny S&M paddle. If we're going to go there, I have several theories on the shape of the Wii-mote.
I also think that the paddle is used as a function tool, but it is called a paddle for a reason. The website link actually advertises it as a paddle. It is used for hitting, pushing, and taking off her clothes. You can see in the video that you can also push her onto the floor.
It is not a spoof. This thing costs almost $100 (9,380 yen on amazon). The company is called "Geisha Entertainment."
exactly, fact of the matter is that she's crying out when poked and her clothes disappear and if you've seen any hentai anime those sounds she makes are familiar.
Not the mention when she's curled up, she's not 'tired from trying on so many clothes'
from my limited understanding of japanese she says something along the lines of 'you're mean' or 'you're too cruel'
the software itself looks amazing though, I've a seen similar 'game' for kids/family where you have a 'pet' monkey type creature that will respond to objects and people in the room which I would totally get if there were other creature options like a kitten, puppy or mythical creature like say a pet dragon.
Err... no. You're looking at a review site. The actual manufacturer's website in question calls the "paddle" an electronic stick (Dennou Stick).
Well, I do speak Japanese, and I can tell you that while the paddle was hitting her, she was saying, "That's awful! Stop! What are you doing to to me! Is the the way to treat your girlfriend?" So ya...it was intentional.
I think the American research groups in the states that use the same technology also call it a "paddle" but only because of it's shape and dimension. The cube is also not symbolic as the rendering engine needs it to generate a frame of reference.
As a result of the quality of the audio and animation I think it's either a commercial project or a research project. The video quality is a result of using a webcam to record the paddle and cube and the animation is added in real time. This is to show that the project requires no special tech.
So you can have her houseclean, get her naked, hit her and give her gifts. Yeah, I have been in that relationship and as a matter of fact I am going to a new therapist to deal with it today. I think that the part that upsets me most is, here is this awesomely cool technology (at least I haven't seen it before but then again I don't get out much) so awesome that even while being horrified at what was transpiring I still couldn't help thinking "Wow, that is some really cool technology". And with this nifty new form of human/digital interaction this was the most creative way they found to use it. Sigh...
ah! apologies for the double posting.
My older sister lived for a long time in southeast Asia, and was immersed in their culture; I was also (very briefly and stupidly) married to someone who was obsessed with Anime and Japanese cartoons. Everything I've seen from their experiences indicates an incredible sense of mysogyny and disrespect for women in the various Asian cultures, Japan being no exception. It's considered socially acceptable to cheat on your wife in Korea, as long as you're supporting her financially. Asian men feel no shame in telling women that they're fat and unattractive, because they feel they're doing these women a favor by calling attention to something that the women need to "fix" about themselves. And Anime - don't get me freaking started. It's the worst portrayal of women that I've ever seen, worse than pornography and horror films put together and magnified by 100. Short skirts, squeaky voices, terminally being afraid of everything, quitting their lives to get married, never being leaders, heroes, or important figures to anyone, caring only about attracting men and being popular
I was soooo not surprised to see this coming out of Asia.
On the topic of anime, while that is an unfortunate theme, not all anime is like that. For strong female leads, see Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex (two seasons worth), Read or Die, Witch Hunter Robin, and to a lesser extent, Cowboy Bebop and Rurouni Kenshin. Also Studio Ghibli uses a number of strong female leads in its films (My Neighbor Totoro, Carried Away, Princess Mononoke).
Adding to your point. Erin did overgeneralize anime. Much of it does have strong female characters. I mentioned I was at a convention last weekend, my cosplay was Shana from Shakugan No Shana, one of the most kick-ass characters I've seen in my many years of watching anime. She is a flame haze, kind of like a superhero. Another dimension exists called the Crimison World, monsters called denizans come into our world to feed off human's power of existance. Flame hazes come to kill denizans. Shana has strong sense of duty, early on she went as far as not holding a name. She does fall in love with a boy, Yuji but I highly doubt she would give up being a flame haze for him. There was a point where she was ordered to kill him and was actually willing to do it because she believed it was for the good of the world. Same thing when she used a technique in battle that was likely to kill her. She is willing to sacrifice herself and the people she loves for the good of humanity.
I have to also mention Azumanga. Not that they're perfect characters by a long shot- but they're also not stereotypes of high school girls. They're each so different and some are "boyish". They're athletic and strong and throughout the whole series, no one ever worries about romantic relationships. (Well, unless you count the creep literature teacher or the fact that everyone is kind of in love with Miss Sakaki).
But to say all anime is sexist is like saying all American programming is. It is a generalized true, but there are a good number of exceptions.
What's especially great is that it was written by a guy, lol.
He also wrote Yotsuba&, which is about a little non-Japanese girl adopted by a single man living in Japan. It's an adorable story. Yotsuba is mischievous, active and curious but unlike American stories with similar female characters, she never really gets in trouble for this. Most everyone loves her for it. Her father is a stay-at-home dad (works from home) who constantly dotes over her and is just, generally the most un-masculine father-type ever.
Even the female neighbors don't fit any certain stereotype. The mother is a laid-back sort and the father is usually out of town. The pretty oldest I believe was a lesbian in the original Japanese version of the manga (at one point, her sister says she is dating someone but the only person she ever hangs out with is another female). They probably scrapped it in the States so they could put an Everyone rating on it.
I'd say, like many other things in Japan, there is more variation than there tends to be in the Western world (just take a look at their music industry). So you have movies and books with strong female lead roles (that you would never have here) and you have movies and books with ridiculously infantile female supportive roles.
Erin,
While I'm sorry for your bad marital experience, you can't take the behavior of "someone who was obsessed with Anime and Japanese cartoons" and make that a comment on Japanese culture. And saying that your sister lived in SE Asia, so you know about Japan, is like saying your sister lived in Canada, so you know about Mexico. Because they all look the same, right?
I'm not asserting that Japanese culture is particularly woman-friendly, but I think it gets a bad rap in the Western press. Yes, the older generation is pretty backward when it comes to women's rights (among other things), but our generation is making leaps and bounds that we should be praising instead of mocking. They still have a long way to come, but who are we to cast the first stone? Being married to a Japanese man and having lived in Japan myself, I can guarantee that the image people hold about Japan is vastly different to what you see when your there. We need to exercise extreme caution when judging another culture through the pinhole view we get from the media or holiday travel.
Please don't judge anime and manga by what your ex liked. There is a lot of Japanese (and other east asian) entertainment with very strong, likable heroines.
Consider: if a Japanese woman married an extremely misogynist American man, and spent time watching only the kind of American entertainment that he liked, she'd probably draw similar conclusions about American media.
Asian men feel no shame in telling women that they're fat and unattractive, because they feel they're doing these women a favor by calling attention to something that the women need to "fix" about themselves.
Right. So do you know how big Asia is....way to go stereotyping an entire continent!
I really find it amusing when Westerners decide that they know a lot about Asians simply because they have stayed here, no matter how long. And how what one Asian does means that "All" Asians are like that.
The culture in South Korea is very different compared to the culture in the Phillipines which is also very different compared to the culture in Singapore.
Speaking as a Chinese/Japanese mixed guy who spent almost 21 years of his childhood in various countries of Asia...some of the comments on this post are disheartening, especially coming from folks who should know better.
How many animes did you see? 1? 2?
While the vast majority of girls are over-feminized and sexualized, it doesn't mean they don't have spines- the primary anime archetype for female characters is someone who is outrageously strong beyond first impressions.
I agree the paddle appears to be for doing things to her like undressing her with the digital hand (rather ghostly but there), not for spanking her.
Still, pretty sad. I'm not sure its supposed to be like real life, although I believe Japanese housewives have fairly boring/miserable lives. Japanese women have been marrying later and having less kids for a reason.
This is actually just the latest in a long series of very scary Japanese 'entertainment' developments.
The first I can remember was a standup arcade box with a life-size doll from the stomach down bent over and jammed into it as if a person had been rammed into the machine headfirst. A foam finger was provided so you could jam said stuck doll in the butt and watch the expressions pop up on the screen. That one was at least gender-neutral, and based vaguely on the real-life Japanese kid's game of "kancho", involving sneaking up on people, screaming 'kancho!' and jamming your fingers up their butts. (This is not a joke.)
That was followed by the publication of a video game that made Grand Theft Auto look tame. Called 'Rapelay', the stated objective of the game was to track down three sisters that had rejected the player's persona and then graphically rape them repeatedly until they all developed Stockholm Syndrome. (This is also not a joke or an exaggeration.)
Then there were the "subway simulators" which, unlike traditional houses of prostitution, didn't employ women just to submit to men sexually, but employed them specifically to ride fake subways and submit sexually while pretending not to want to, so that men could act out their subway sexual assault fantasies in a legally safe environment.
And now this.
And Japanese men are wondering why Japanese women don't want to marry them.
That said, with regards to battle angel alita's example, it's not really a double standard. The woman involved is not facing five years in prison for killing her virtual husband -- she's facing five years because the way that she did that was to break into his account. It's a simple technical trespass charge, and nothing more, and was enforced exactly the same way against various other people in other games having broken in for a variety of reasons.
Re: Roni, and whether or not this is torture, if you have a simulated woman who ends up in the fetal position crying from something that you're doing to her, and especially when that something involves undressing her and redressing her in more and more revealing outfits against her will (she certainly didn't sound at all cheerful about it on the video), I don't care if the implication was that you were 'spanking' her with the paddle to get her to comply or whether it was just an iconic tool. That level of abuse approaches torture on an emotional level alone as to justify the use of the word.
I'm seeing echoes of the Guantanamo excuses here, though I'm sure Roni didn't quite mean it that way.
You may say you're sure I didn't mean it that way, but that didn't prevent you for suggesting I, in fact, do. I don't appreciate that.
Guantanamo is an excellent example. Considering what those men went through, I think comparing it to changing clothes on virtual doll is a bit insulting. There are a lot of conceptual jumps; what the paddle is for, what it's doing to the virtual doll, how that it would emotionally affect the game if it portrayed a real person...I think it's inappropriate to call it torture because it cheapens the word. What's next, referring to Operation as vivisection?
The game is absolutely disturbing but I think it's important to maintain some kind of context. I think calling a virtual dress up doll torture is too far. Having the post immediately above the abomination of the real actual Somali girl being raped and beaten to death highlights that. Do we really want to be using the same language in both posts?
What is this?!?!?!? I literally could not watch the whole segment because it was just too much for me to handle! Besides the obvious and horrifying violence against women, I feel really do feel bad for the men who see this and own this. I mean what kind of message is this sending them! (though i find the thought that any one -no matter the gender- would own such a thing terrifying and disgusting) But really now...
So glad I'm not a fangirl of Japanese culture anymore.
WTF???
I don't care if it's not really "spanking", the thought of having a tiny girl on your desktop that you can make do ANYTHING until she cries is a little bit terrifying and bizarre.
I am incredibly curious about Japanese men. Just as I know that not all American men are the Maxim reading, Max Hardcore watching, girlfriend beating rapists, I'm sure that not all Japanese men are tentacle-monster rape watching, bukkakke fantasizing, childlike-girl rape game glorifying perverts. That seems to be all I read about them, and I have to wonder how large of a demographic it encompasses. Is anyone here from Asia, or have they spent a lot of time being in or studying Japan?
As far as I can tell from interaction with Japanese males and females...it's about the same as in America. You have those who are, and those who aren't.
My husband is Korean and I have had people "warn" me about how Asians expect their women to act. It's funny, but truly sad, that they get branded that way.
A good example of trans-continental media-confusion is my friend in Japan who wanted to visit America, but was too afraid to. This is a girl who lived in Australia for a year with a family she'd never previously met and who went to France and to Germany alone. Yet, even though she has friends in America who she could stay with, decided she wouldn't visit because America "is too dangerous". When pressed, she admitted that it scared her how men here treat women.
She had numbers to back her up.
It is very strange too that in addition to the school girl outfits and underwear there are a number of furry animal suits. They remind me of the kind at amusement parks. You can still clearly see the girl's face, so it is definitely the girl inside wearing the costume - not a stuffed animal. This is just creepy all around.
There's a fetish here of which the members are commonly called "furries," in which "fursuits" play a large role. It's quite egalitarian, particularly because it is often gender-bending.
I'm going to have to agree with Astarias51 - 'official spanking' or not, the presenting of this 'sexy girlfriend' as infantile - and that her tears and distress are used as selling points - is really messed up. It isn't just Japan, though, we make (and buy) some pretty disgusting stuff here too - and presenting sexy as childlike seems to be a disturbing international trend.
I'm definitely also disturbed by presenting sexy as childlike. Even if we ignore the really really disturbing fact that people are supposed to buy this to enjoy hearing a woman shriek and tell them to stop undressing her and pushing her around, how can someone who is comforted by a teddy bear be a "virtual girlfriend"? If someone crying in the fetal position can be made to feel better by a teddy bear, that person is a child. And children should not be put in the same category as girlfriends, virtual or otherwise.
And all y'all upthread with the generalizations about Japanese culture (or Asian culture - you're speaking for the entire continent now?), knock it off.
Unless I miss my guess, that's not paddling, that's groping.
Here is a slightly rough translation of what she says, just in case anybody was wondering:
"Hello, my name is Eris. Pleased to meet you. Oh, is this your room? Ah! No, that's no good! Ah! Scary! Ah! This is bad, I don't want a part of this! Oh, is that a present? Oh, cute! I got a good thing! Ah, don't come in! Phew, that's dangerous."
Thanks for the translation. Knowing what she's saying makes it all the more disgraceful.
I mean, when have you ever been groped, stripped, beaten and terrorized by a boyfriend and then danced happily in your undies after he apologizes with a teddy bear?
Um, I think the point was that it *wasn't* beating. But you're right in the larger sense.
I'm also getting similar vibes, based on my limited Japanese vocabulary.
The last time I was 5 inches tall and lived in a cube.
That's why I have trouble with these false equivalency arguments, they fall apart depending on the spin. The virtual doll is not a person and contextualizing arguments like it involves a real live woman with agency is a form of objectification. I'd think was a line we'd want to keep very clear.
Again, the game is disturbing, but so is the 'how would this emotionally impact her if it was real' line of reasoning.
Japanese men tend to be sexually repressed perverts. The word for it over there is hentai. I've heard they did outlaw the used panty machines.
"Japanese men tend to be sexually repressed perverts."
That sounds racist and an overgeneralization. Do you have any figures that support that most Japanese men are perverts?
"The word for it over there is hentai."
Actually, hentai means strange. I don't blame you here because I thought that once too. The anime genre of hentai was given that name because the majority of it is strange. While I'm a huge anime fan(I was at a convention last weekend), hentai is a genre I haven't watched much hentai. Mostly because the majority of it is very weird and sometimes violent and degrading of women, also I simply prefer erotic stories.
Personal experience in Japan and with Japanese in the states. The guys are into some really creepy stuff. As I said, at least there is now a law against the used panty machines.
I speak Japanese, and I was most disturbed by the virtual girl's use of "Sama", an honorific, like "-san" only the use of "sama" implies someone is higher than you, someone superior, in this case, the "master". WTF? This doesn't surprise me, I've dedicated a lot of my time to decrying the "Kawaii bunka" (Cute culture) and the dreadful expectations of Japanese women. It needs to stop.
I don't think it's groping. From 0:50-0:57, the paddle clearly knocks her to the ground several times. The last time it smacks her right in the face. Not a typical groping spot.
I am absolutely stunned. What. The. FUCK.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but save a few exceptions, are there any women that would want a man like this?
Umm wow talk about hate on the BDSM community. Have any of you ever considered the fact that some women like myself enjoy S&M and that my dom is a woman, a Mistress... but whatever just keep hating fucck vegans fuck BDSM people oh and fuck hot women! that's the feministing way
23andpissed, this is not the same thing as BDSM.
Yeah, I did consider it. That's the first thing I thought of, in fact. I'm into BDSM too, and was wondering when someone would come in conflating sexified violence against women with BDSM again. This here is virtual abuse, and they've made it clear she's not consenting. And not in a BDSM sort of role-playing way either. The BDSM community is very concerned with ensuring that everyone has consented and are enjoying themselves, so if a toy similar to this were being made by and marketed to kinky folks like me or you, I can guarantee it wouldn't look like this.
I don't even know where you're coming from with the vegans and hot women thing. Are you talking about feminists disagreeing with the sexist PETA ads? Because you can agree with animal rights while also thinking that PETA is wrong. I've never heard anyone say anything bad about vegans or vegetarians here after reading for 1 1/2 years. And uh, no one here ever says there's anything wrong with being attractive or feminine, just that women shouldn't have our worth judged by our appearance or be made to feel like we must conform to some impossible ideal.
I actually am inclined to agree that this is potentially no more objectionable than any other BDSM fantasy material. No, the girl character doesn't appear to be consenting. This is often the case in BDSM smut. For that matter, it's often the case with actual BDSM play that if you wandered over and saw it going on in the dungeon, you might not see any indication of consent. But in any event, I don't think what is obviously a fantasy needs to include the trappings of real-world consent and negotiation in order to be ethical. It's a fantasy. In fantasy, we can play the villain, we can do things that would be very very wrong in real life.
Also, I would ask what we mean by "creepy." "Creepy" could mean we find something disturbing on an ethical/political level. It could also simply mean that it provokes an unpleasant personal, emotional reaction. It could mean both, but they are not necessarily the same thing. I think there is a risk of concluding that something is wrong because it squicks us, which confuses ethics and aesthetics. 'Cause there is a lot of stuff like this that might squick me, but that doesn't mean I think it's wrong.
Which is not to say that the creators or all the viewers of such material are necessarily pure-of-heart safe-sane-consensual BDSM practitioners. Probably not, and context does matter. There are fantasy images that I think are totally okay in general but would object to on the cover of Maxim. That raises some complicated issues, but I suppose that is my point: it is complicated.
This doesn’t offend me any more than the store bought hooters in Playboy do---both make me sick.
But what can we do? Men’s whack attacks are mighty powerful.
I’m at a loss.
Yeah, 23andpissed, because slapping a virtual girl until she cries is pretty much the same thing as BDSM practiced between two consenting adults, and disapproving of the one necessarily means disapproval of the other.
Thank you Lalaroo, that's just what I was thinking. There's a huge difference between this and the reality of BDSM play, which involves AGENCY and CONSENT.
So it would be okay if that virtual doll set up a (never-to-be-used, obviously) safe word and "consented" before hand? That seems a little silly to me.
Power play is power play; consent is necessary for it because there is a real person on the other end.
I won't deny that Japanese culture has some deeply disturbing undertones, but Western culture isn't exactly squeaky-clean either.
I think that you're missing the point, AVies. It's true that the doll is not prescient, and therefore can't give or refuse consent. But toys like this, where the doll not only doesn't give consent, but protests the abuse, are another drop in the flood of products that sexify violence against women - especially non-consensual violence. This is a problem. It has huge ill effects on the actual lives of women. Therefore, while I have absolutely no problem with consenting people practicing BDSM, I have a huge problem with products like these. And I think that introducing BDSM into the conversation at all is a little disingenuous, as this toy is not a prop meant for practitioners, it is instead a toy meant for any dude who wants to undress/hit/give presents to a virtual doll.
I also think it's unnecessary to bring up Western culture. What's the point of that? This post is about this particular product, which happens to be from Japan. I don't think anyone on this forum would say the US is absolutely egalitarian and there aren't any problems at home. It's unproductive to require the West to be squeaky-clean before calling out other nations.
How can a virtual person possibly say yes or no to consenting? Seriously... you're acting like it's a person. As for the safe word business... I've never met a girl who does BDSM who uses safe words and never have myself. The Dom especially if it's a professional one like my Mistress know when the persons had enough and it's pretty easy to say I've had enough. As for the crying that's just theatrics. Sure I've never seen anyone cry from BDSM but that's because someone would stop way before that. With all the crazy things going on a virtual BDSM game is not even newsworthy IMHO.
Ok, you are not speaking for all people into BDSM. Safe words are a safe (duh!) and responsible thing to use, and they are very common. Yeah, if you never play around with pretend non-consent, just saying "NO" will work, but as someone who does, I would never feel comfortable not having one. The point is not how you are treating a virtual person, it's how the action is framed, and in this case it's obvious that the virtual girlfriend really, truly hates what's happening and the player is intending to be abusive. I would never be able to enjoy something framed that way, because context is everything. I'm kinky, not abusive, and I want my partner to be happy. This game is disgusting and I don't want it to be in any way associated with my safe, consensual, and enjoyable sexual activities.
WHOA you don't use safe words? Do you have any idea how dangerous that is? I'm into BDSM but the safe words are the FIRST STEP.I mean, seriously, the major tenets of BDSM are safe, sane, and consensual. Safe words are the guarantee that someone won't get raped because their partner thought they were just a really good actor.
Also, in many jurisdictions, if you don't have safe words the law considers it sexual abuse.
It depends on how you play. For some people, "I don't use safewords" means "I have entrusted my physical and emotional safety to my [Dominant/Mistress/Master] and do not define my own limits within a scene," while for others it means "When I play, no still means no; my play centers around things other than a fantasy of nonconsent or questionable consent." The latter is pretty straightforward, while the former is more controversial.
If no still means no, no is your safeword. It doesn't have to be banana. "No safe words" means there's nothing you can do or say that will stop the action.
And the first just sounds exploitive and dangerous. That's BDSM in the porn sense, where the sub has no rights to stop anything once it's started. It's not technically abuse unless the sub stops enjoying it, but it's so boerderline... It would be so easy for a person to be really hurt or really need to stop and be unable to. Dangerous, and definitely not safe, sane, and consensual-- because it's not safe.
Agree with this. I +1'd it too but I wanted to officially cosign.
I often wonder if games such as this are really that popular in Japan, or if these misogynistic, vaguely pedophilic ones are just what register on our radar?
I'm always disturbed when I encounter U.S. anime fandom. Not the kids so much -- it seems to be pretty much gender mixed and a lot of fun for them.
But the adults... a great many who are arrested-adolescent males who crave the most disturbing neo-pedo, misogynistic porn they can find... can be very creepy.
If you go to a con, you'll often see knots of these forty-something-year-old virgins lusting after teen and post-teen girls in skimpy anime costumes. Then, they go in the dealer's room and buy porn. Gah!
"If you go to a con, you'll often see knots of these forty-something-year-old virgins lusting after teen and post-teen girls in skimpy anime costumes. Then, they go in the dealer's room and buy porn. Gah!"
Real fine. BLECH!
*sigh* It's just like in America. It's the creepy, weird stuff you see more from other cultures as the mundane life details aren't nearly as exciting. And just like in America, it's a smaller percentage of the population than the amount of coverage would have you believe.
Also, I'd like to point out that where a lot of the girls you're seeing look underage to you (hence all the pedo comments I'm seeing on here), I'm fairly sure that girl is supposed to be of legal age. Westerners tend to view Asian facial and body features as young. Anime traditionally tries to stick to the cute factor, even if it means your twenty-year-old protagonist looks eleven.
Japan also has a very different approach to these types of fantasy than Americans do. I know what all our psychological research says about fantasy and reality, but that's Western psychology, not Eastern. In Japan, fantasy and reality are considered two very distinct things, and your fantasy life is not supposed to interact with your real life. Hence, extreme fantasies are not considered as..."harmful" as they would be in America.
I heard all this in a lecture while studying in Japan, so I don't have any sources offhand, otherwise I would provide them. Most of the sources were in Japanese anyway.
Wow! Thanks for that explanation. It helps with understanding immensely.
Still, the American anime fans are going to be seeing things in an American context, which is still pretty creepy. And a lot of the anime I see which seems to be most popular with this crowd involves girls in school uniforms, which implies "underage."
Of course, all this reminds me of an old story I saw on the parody newssite "The Onion":
"Co-worker knows entirely too much about 'age of consent' laws around the world"
"It's just like in America. It's the creepy, weird stuff you see more from other cultures as the mundane life details aren't nearly as exciting."
Really good point - we're essentially desensitized to what we see every day. You reminded me of my classmates and their "dead baby" jokes, which nauseate me but are normal and funny in their subculture. Though, this could just be me - please tell me if I'm off my nut with this - I still think this is very odd and makes me uncomfortable. Not because it's Japanese, but because it's very forceful, she clearly protests and expresses fear, and the woman is solely a toy (and yes I promise know it's literally a toy, but meant as a representation of a woman).
"Japan also has a very different approach to these types of fantasy than Americans do."
I agree, konkonsn. The Japanese thinking, as far as I can tell, is that if people have violent, antisocial fantasies (as some people obviously do), it's better to get them out in a 'non-harmful' way. This is not to say that I agree with this philosophy, but this is why high school girl porn manga (NOT real porn, just drawings) is allowed. They're trying to prevent these fantasies from coming out in more harmful ways. And I must say, Japan is a much safer country to live in than America. Whether that applies to more hidden crimes like domestic abuse and child molestation, I can only give anecdotal evidence to, but it seems to. Is this due to this strange approach, or to other societal fators? An interesting question.
would it be possible to get translations of the words going up on the screen, and of what the girl is saying. I'd like to know how it's being advertised.
I put a translation of what she says up earlier. The words up on the screen are beyond my ability for the most part, but they mention 360? of visibility. Also something along the lines of 'watch out world.'
Sorry I have nothing more detailed.
I think everyone should realize this isn't a game made by some big publisher, it's just made by some third party developer.
The doll thing is creepy to me, but the racism and negative comments about people unrelated to the creation and marketing of this thing (i.e. anime fans, Japanese people) are seriously not cool.
I honestly think the other commenters don't believe it's racism. I mean, aren't ALL Japanese men pedos who spank it to futanari, tentacle porn?
I love how this post has 60+ comments, but the post about a 13 year old girl getting raped and publically murdered has under 10. I mean, this is obviously the patriarchy at it's best and we need to focus all of our attention and man power on making sure people don't create or grope five inch tall virtual girls! Real girls be damned. Way to go, Feministing!
AutoJ don't judge. I think everyone here can pretty much agree that violence against women is bad, or violence at all, is a horrible thing; I think I can safely say that for most feminists there is no gray area when it comes to abuse,murder, and rape while issues like this raise more discussion and volleying since they have layered strata of significance to different social groups.
I think the reason this post has lots more comments is because it is something that can be debated about. A real 13 year old being raped and murdered is terrible, horrible, unthinkable and I would think that all feministing readers agree with that. It's hard to know what to comment on a post like that other than "that's terrible, what can we do so this won't happen". But there's not any easy solutions, and most of us aren't in a position to do anything about it. This 'virtual girlfriend' is a commercial product. It is meant to be accepted by people but it very sexist and disturbing. There are people out there who think there is nothing wrong with products like these. That makes it something to debate about. So people comment. Just because people don't comment on the other post, doesn't mean we aren't a million times more appalled by the real-life scenario.
But, there hasn't really been in debating in this thread. The comments have all been about how disgusting and truly, truly horrible this is and how Japanese men are sexist perverts.
live in Japan. Of course not all Japanese men are into this stuff, but the place of women in Japan is certainly low. If you look up Japan's place in the Worldwide Gender Equality Index, you will find it is staggeringly low, lower than any other developed country and below many very poor countries (gender equality is not necessarily related to economic growth at all, as the study points out).
Yes, commenter should not have claimed to know about Japan because of living in Southeast Asia.
But actually, the Southeast Asian countries are HIGHER on the gender equality index than Japan.
I will work on a post about my observations of sexism here. It is complicated; in general it's worse, but some elements of American sexism stemming from religion, such as the sexual double standard, are not so bad.
(By the way, the Japanese word for "pervert" is "sukebe.")
Well, that was bizarre!
The type of Japanese men who like this sort of thing are a very select few--I really dislike how everyone is generalizing Japanese culture to be all about disrespecting women. It's just that people have pretty much given up on the "otaku" set of men in Japan, and so nothing they do is really banned or outlawed. There's an idea of "they're freaks, and I don't care what they do if it has nothing to do with me."
That's why so much of this stuff exists--money is made off the social-recluse hikikomori-type men (and sometimes women, who seem to prefer dating-based games where they meet and fall in love with virtual "perfect" men) and everyone else turns the other cheek and goes on with their own lives. Japan is a very "closed" society. No matter how much you disagree with what someone else is doing, if it isn't affecting you then you don't say anything. It isn't like America where if someone is doing something you disagree with you try to talk to them about your point of view.
I'm not giving them a pass--I've done my share of essay papers (Japan geek for about ten years, sorry) detailing Japan's creepy underground sex scene. But the majority of Japanese people wouldn't buy something like that, and Japan really is making strides as far as strong women (in media and in everyday life) go. It's just that the submissive, controlled woman has been so fetishized at this point that the result is often the product detailed in this post. (Also see: maid cafes, and pretty much all Japanese pornography.)
God. With media representation of Asian women like THIS, it's no wonder men treat me like shit.
Arigato, media, arigato gozaimasu.
What's especially great is that it was written by a guy, lol.
He also wrote Yotsuba&, which is about a little non-Japanese girl adopted by a single man living in Japan. It's an adorable story. Yotsuba is mischievous, active and curious but unlike American stories with similar female characters, she never really gets in trouble for this. Most everyone loves her for it. Her father is a stay-at-home dad (works from home) who constantly dotes over her and is just, generally the most un-masculine father-type ever.
Even the female neighbors don't fit any certain stereotype. The mother is a laid-back sort and the father is usually out of town. The pretty oldest I believe was a lesbian in the original Japanese version of the manga (at one point, her sister says she is dating someone but the only person she ever hangs out with is another female). They probably scrapped it in the States so they could put an Everyone rating on it.
I'd say, like many other things in Japan, there is more variation than there tends to be in the Western world (just take a look at their music industry). So you have movies and books with strong female lead roles (that you would never have here) and you have movies and books with ridiculously infantile female supportive roles.
I'm sorry, but it was REALLY hard for me to read the comments here without my head exploding. Yes, certain forms of Japanese media tend to portray women as childlike and sexually available, which is an insulting and terrible thing. The appropriate reaction to this is not to condemn all Japanese/Asian men as misogynists, sickos, and perverts. I'm not sure how aware you all are that that's one of the most pervasive stereotypes of Asian and Asian American men, kind of like saying that all black men have a criminal record or all Hispanic men are gang members. I'm not saying that misogyny in Asian cultures shouldn't be called out, but what you all are doing is not calling it out- you're patting yourselves on the back for being from a superior culture. Not cool.
Sigh. I'm kind of tired of being the militant-sounding Asian American Studies minor who only comes out of the woodwork for threads like this. Though I do notice that the posts calling these people out are far more numerous than the original offending posts, and I thank you guys for that :)
And to get back to the original topic, I wonder what you all think of how this kind of portrayal of women has sort of wormed its way into American culture? That's what really interests me- I can't speak as to what this means for Japanese people, but I know that a disturbingly large number of American guys I know have decided that this kind of image is "cute" and exactly what they want in a girl. They also want to project it onto any Asian woman they meet, which is always loads of fun.
It is interesting that men who will think this is cool wouldn't be caught dead playing with a Barbie that they could change the clothes on and undress. Though I hear Barbie was inspired by sex dolls....
A little more detail here.. she kept referring to the user as her husband. Also, it is clear that she did not want him doing those things.
oh, and her name is "Alice".
... First off, is this marketed towards a general audience or the smaller hentai/BDSM audience?
This, and products like it (3d customizable girl, H games, etc..), are tpyically marketed towards hikkomori otaku.
It is not stereotyping Japanese culture- it IS Japanese culture. I've lived here in Tokyo for 16 years- I speak Japanese fluently, and at one time was even married to a Japanese guy. So believe me- this kind of thing is pervasive. The culture is just steeped in sexism.
Many guys look down on women as child-like and treat them as such, and the reason they can get away with it is because the women allow it- some even prefer it, and are happy to take that role. After all, life is just soooo much easier if you just sit back, look cute, and let someone else take responsibility for your life.
Of course, there are guys here who take a more western view and value equality of the sexes, and prefer equal partners. But even some of my friends, who KNOW this and are the nicest guys, still chose to date vacuous women because they are non-threatening to their masculine identity. They are basically good guys- if they weren't, they wouldn't be my friends. But they've been raised to think that men are more capable, smarter, and generally more able to do things, and so they believe it. It takes time and life experience meeting strong women to change their minds. I do my best to make sure they do- my guy friends have learned a LOT from me. :)
But these anime/game otaku?? With their inferiority complexes, they will never, ever get past the stage where they have to put others down in order to feel good about themselves.
Man- if you think this video game is bad, you should watch some of the PORN here. *shudder+
I don't dispute this, but it's interesting that you cite equality of the sexes as a "western" view. Our culture is based in patriarchy too and we're the ones who created Girls Gone Wild, Sarah Palin, PETA's "I'd rather go naked" ad campaigns, to name a few. And yeah, I know plenty of American guys who go for vacuous women because it's easier for them, and most men (and women) here are also raised to believe that men are more capable, even if we later reject that belief. Again, not saying that we have to be better than other cultures to criticize them, because God knows there's a lot in Japanese culture that needs criticizing, but I don't really equate "western" with progressive views about women.
All the insanely cool stuff you can do with augmented reality and THIS is what comes to market? We have GOT to set our sights higher.
While obviously no one can say "Japanese men are all sick fucks" it is true that certain cultures lend themselves better to the creation of sick fucks than others. Japanese culture is very rigidly defined and encourages emotional and sexual repression to extremes. The same is true of mainstream Protestant culture in the United States, though in different ways, which we inherited from the Germans, who invented scat porn. The same is not true of some other cultures, and there's degrees of sexual and emotional freedom within each culture; Japan has a very low degree of socially acceptable freedoms in that regard, so they have a very high rate of really weird fetishes, some of which are dangerous and some of which are exploitative. And in any culture where emotion and sexual expression are severely repressed, women get the short end of the stick because we are seem as emotional, which is seen as bad.
The biggest problem with Japanese culture is that while most cultures are very ageist, most, like Western culture for example, set the "ideal" age at sometime in the early twenties, while Japanese culture sets it in the early teens. So an adult woman looking and acting like a 14-year-old is considered good, even if that means she can be easily taken advantage of in the same way a 14-year-old can.
lets be clear that that woman who was arrested for "killing her virtual huband" was arrested for hacking into his account illegally, not for "killing" the husband. The virtual husband was a real man sitting in front of a computer controlling an avatar.
Japan is difficult and hard to understand. Even after 2 years there, I can offer little insight. However, I do have a couple of theories...
One is that when you see snippets of a culture, it is soooo easy to pick it apart. That is why sometimes I really value the opinion of a "foreigner" in "my" country because they tend to pick up on things that we no longer notice or take for granted. When you visit someplace (for a significant amount of time) where you are not familiar with the cultural norms you notice subtle differences. It's culture shock, essentially. I think that is why a lot of people are picking apart Japanese culture here as well... some things are spot on and others are picked apart, but not really understood. However, there is also a problem with approaching it this way. One tends to only make sweeping generalisations as they can't understand the culture deeper because they didn't grow up with it. Therefore, they never fully understand the reasons or history behind the ways things are.
As far as the cute/girlish thing in Japanese culture. I have a theory about Japan (generalisation, of course) in that they are perfectionists. To the extreme. A Japanese "women's" magazine are filled with pages upon pages about how to do eye make-up and wear certain clothes so you can get an exact, specific look. And while that is done with English magazines as well... it's more so there. It's really difficult to explain... but, everything they do, they do exceptionally well and to the extreme. That is why the women are generally portrayed as super girly and cute, it is the cartoonish epitome of what a woman "should be".
I rambled and it's too late to edit - apologies.
oh, and the characters name is actually Alice.
I think there are a lot of extreme and racist generalizations going on here about Japanese culture and Japanese men that are not okay. At all.
Considering the fact that one of the U.S.'s most popular video games allows its players to kill prostitutes, maybe we can avoid targeting a culture here, but focus on the prevalence of violence against women that exists in video games and the like.
I think there is a prevalence of violence in video games. To say there is a prevalence of violence against women is, I think, a bit wrong. I think we project the real world atmosphere of violence and sex/gender struggle into video games without a lot of justification for doing so.
The routine of most video games is violence and most of that violence is directed(non-controversially) against men. Males are just vulnerable to being shot, beaten, or immolated in Grand Theft Auto games and the story lines are for more likely to lead you to violence against men than women.
I strongly suspect that if male prostitutes were available in Grand Theft Auto Games you could murder them with as much ease as prostitutes present in the game - just as you can murder every person you pass on the street (male or female) that can't run away fast enough.
The selection of targets and use of force in these game environments reveals far more about the players, IMHO, than about the games themselves.
Just FYI - Feministing made Boingboing about this post. It's interesting to read the comments. Plenty follow the template "I thought the feminists were over reacting but this is horrible."
here's the link
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/11/13/your-virtual-girlfri.html
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Adding to your point. Erin did overgeneralize anime. Much of it does have strong female characters. free online games