Thousands in LA protest Prop 8. Pic via Lesbian Dad.
The passage of Proposition 8, which will amend California's constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman, was a devastating loss.
Thousands of protesters took to the street on Wednesday night, and over a thousand protested outside of a Mormon temple yesterday afternoon - the Mormon Church bankrolled a big portion of the proposition's campaign.
For more, see The Advocate for videos of Wednesday night's protest.
In related news, AMERICAblog reports that famed attorney Gloria Allred will file a lawsuit against Proposition 8:
Attorney Gloria Allred and her clients, Robin Tyler and Diane Olson, will hold a news conference today November 5, 2008 at 12:00 noon at 6300 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 1500 L.A. to announce a new lawsuit against Prop. 8. Prop. 8 intended to ban same gender marriages in California.Ms. Allred and her law firm represented the couple in their victory before the California Supreme Court. Her clients became the first to marry in Los Angeles County in June.
It's so depressing that the same country that elected Obama could be so unbelievably hateful towards gay Americans. But I think Pam says it best:
If victories make us complacent, it is our defeats that rally us to a new level of community and activism. We stood up after mortal blows from Anita Bryant pushing her anti-gay vitriol in Florida. We rallied to the bedside of Matthew Shephard in his family's time of tribulation. More recently, we re-committed our vows to protect our youngest members in the wake of the murder of Lawrence King by a fellow classmate. In the wake of the passage of Prop 8, we see now and will see another historic re-awakening of our community.
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What happened with PROP8 was terrible but what makes this even worse is the racism engaged by some in the GLBT community who have decided that blacks are to blame. This of course creates as invisible those blacks that are gay and the ones that worked tirelessly to get this overturned. Engaging in one ism to fight another just reinforces the mechanisms which foster social injustice.
Renee, def. I'm actually going to post this article later that takes this idea on: http://www.alternet.org/rights/106178/why_the_prop_8_gay_marriage_ban_won/
Thank you for mentioning that - I signed in to make a similar comment, that it's such a disappointment to hear the way people talk about the voters that passed the ban. It's similarly astonishing to hear pundits insinuating that Obama's election spells the end of racism in the US, when that is so clearly not the case.
That Harlmen video you posted helps make this point. If people get together and FIGHT for our civil rights, things WILL change. And defeat is almost the best way to go about it -- it has sufficiently pissed me off and made me PROMISE to help as much as I possibly can to further our cause. It's like ... it woke me up, almost. I was almost getting complacent. "Oh, we've made so many strides, Portia and Ellen's wedding was on the cover of People, we're here!" This defeat just reminded me that, NO, we are NOT here. We still have a long way to go.
And Obama's win made me realize THAT WE CAN DO IT. The first African American President is a HUGE deal and a HUGE breakthrough for civil rights.
It may take time, but I honestly believe that this Prop 8 defeat will only energize us and make us stronger. Don't piss off the gays!
Als, I consider myself an Arizona native, but my home town is right on the AZ/CA border, and the house I grew up on is technically ON the California side. So Arizona AND California are my home states. Prop 102 passing in Arizona was sad for me, but Prop 8 was even sadder. I'm going to make an effort to help change happen in BOTH of my beautiful states.
Even worse is that in Colorado (someone correct me if I'm wrong about the state) the vote was passed to outlaw gay couples adopting children! WTF?
I think it was Arkansas. That made me cry!
It was carefully worded to say that people who weren't married (and Arkansas denies that right to gay couples), Could not adopt a person under the age of 18.
To put this in a context that US media can understand: This basically would have meant, that if Annie had lived in Arkansas, Daddy Warbucks couldn't have adopted her.
I know that this ban on gay marriage will not stand! This shows that we need to unify all civil rights groups to fight for equal rights for ALL!! Ending discrimination is a process and we are walking that path as a nation. Obama mentioned gays and equality in his victory speech and the mainstream population will turn with him to forming a nation not based on religious values, but on humanity. I beg members of the Gay community to not hate on blacks or buy into the media's saying that blacks caused the prop to pass. That is simply not true. It is true that the African American community did not rally against prop 8 the way it rallied for Obama but opposers of prop 8 did not make a big effort to educate people in the black community. I think this is a learning experience for all of us. Now it is the time to come together from all civil rights groups and repeal these laws.
For everyone in the Bay Area:
March TODAY (Friday, 11/7/08) 5:30 pm at Market & 7th. The March will go through the Castro and end at Dolores Park.
For more info: www.protest8.blogspot.com
I just want to say that I'm so proud of the GLBT community and their supporters right now, for not putting up with the passage of Prop 8. I felt numb on Tuesday night when I read that it passed, and I wish i could be down there to help march today.
Is there anything Gov. Schwarzenegger could do to veto it or something? I know he was against it...
I don't think "blacks are to blame" even though they voted for it more than other racial groups. I do, however, think the Obama campaign was complicit in Prop 8's passing. Other than some tepid and circumscribed statements (how persuasive is it to state your opposition only after saying you think marriage is between one man and one woman and that you do not support gay marriage), Obama and his campaign did nothing when they could have had a massive impact, especially among certain very supporting demographics.
I think Obama's too smart to sacrifice a knight to save a pawn. US Supreme Court appointments are the checkmate, and it will come, thanks to the tightrope he has walked and the compromises he made to earn the presidency of both red and blue America. As abhorrent as I find this discrimination, there were more important issues at stake. Really.
It's not Obama's job to end queer prejudice; it's ours. He has done and will do everything he possibly can for us all. But the responsibility is ours to engage our communities, to change perceptions, to end bigotry. That's not something a law can do. I will ask nothing more than for him to lift a pen to sign into law the will of the people. The will of the people, one day, will be tolerance.
I don't think "blacks are to blame" even though they voted for it more than other racial groups. I do, however, think the Obama campaign was complicit in Prop 8's passing. Other than some tepid and circumscribed statements (how persuasive is it to state your opposition only after saying you think marriage is between one man and one woman and that you do not support gay marriage), Obama and his campaign did nothing when they could have had a massive impact, especially among certain very supporting demographics.
Because is ANYONE knows how sacred "one man, one woman" is, it's....the fucking MORMONS?
Re: the Mormon Church's contribution - I think Jon Stewart said it best.
"Cos if there's one value that the Mormon Church has always held dear, it's that marriage must be between one man, and..."
What gorgeous grounds that temple has. Beautiful site for an outdoor wedding. Maybe even a marry-in. ;-)
I love my mother's suggestion for how to get back at the LDS -- keep some boy-on-boy mags near the front door for when the mission boys stop by, then tear out and hand them pages for each question they ask about my spiritual life. I know - not effective to freak the straight-laced missionaries out with porn. But it made me laugh to think of my very-Catholic mom suggesting that I buy Gay porn.
What worked for me one time -- the "elders" (boys) asked me if I'd read the Book of Mormon. I told them the truth: "As much of it as I could stay awake over." That was the end of that visit.
Haha, I tried to read it, too, but it was SO badly written... my dedication to understanding how ridiculous their religion is doesn't run that deep.
I was at both rallies in LA, and I have to say that the movement is energized, but still chaotic and forming. No on Prop 8 was a well organized, wonderful movement, but a lot of us were distracted by other issues this election cycle. Now it has suddenly broadened as those of us who normally don't work on GLTB issues realize that this is an important fight. It has taken to the streets, which is not a bad thing.
But because of this sudden influx of righteous indignation, a lot of inexperienced protesters are getting involved quickly. The messaging was off. A lot of people weren't well versed in non-violent tactics. This needs to change-- we need a lot more education by experienced organizers to keep this movement growing and turn it effective.
I feel the anger directed to individual "Yes on 8" supporters (that occasionally took a racial overtone) is a detestable and wrong course of action. The Mormon Church is a political organization-- it is fine to focus on them as well as the Evangelical and Catholic churches. But singling out individuals with Yes on 8 banners and stickers as a mob is undemocratic, frightening and counter-productive.
But, despite my criticism, I can say we will win this fight. We will win it by showing our dignity, our mutual goals and our love for each-other. We will win it by reaching out to the religious community and assuaging their fears, as we point out the importance of equal rights for all. We will win this fight by strategy when it is required, and with the raucous party that is protesting when necessary. We will win this.
See, I disagree with this wholeheartedly. These protests are energized because they are SELF-organized! The only violence has been instigated by the LAPD (I was with several groups who has run-ins with the riot police, including when that guy got beaten), who as we know don't exactly have a great history as far as knowing when force is and is not appropriate. I have been amazed by the momentum of the people doing things for themselves, being seen, showing the world how angry we are while remaining peaceful (minus fucking up your traffic).
I also went to ANSWER LA's saturday night protest. It sucked beyond description. It was a fucking cattle-herding parade, and even though we had upwards of 12,000 people there no one saw us because LAPD blocked off all the surrounding streets and herded us into less populated areas. There was no energy because we were all just following this stupid truck at a snail's pace. The chants were so half-hearted... except when we were coming up with our own to drown out the "leader". I was part of the group that tried to get us to go left on Sunset, where the people are. Later we quietly spread the word to reconvene at Hollywood and Highland at 10 where the cops didn't have a whole day to make sure we were properly quarentined. We finally took Hollywood Blvd, which the LAPD had previously been hell-bent on preventing. Now THAT was protest. :)
What is the point of "strategizing" at this point? It's lost. It's all in the courts' hands now. All we can do is show the world that we aren't going away - ever - and that if they think they can do this to us without any consequences, they got another thing coming.
History has consistently shown that oppressed groups show more disdain than empathy towards other oppressed groups. One century ago, Italians and Irish (who were, of course, not considered white at the time) had disdain for African Americans and other people whom were deemed on a lower echelon of the social ladder. I am confident that, in time, African American and Hispanic voters will come to view the LGBTIAQ community (did I get all the letters?) with (more) respect and eventually this entire country will come to view same-sex the same way that almost all of us view interracial marriage. This does not mean that I am disgusted and dismayed by the fact that Prop 8 passed, but I suspect that only a decade or so ago it would have passed by a larger margin. It should also serve as a painful and unfriendly reminder that we have much work to do in terms of raising consciousness(es).
History has consistently shown that oppressed groups show more disdain than empathy towards other oppressed groups. One century ago, Italians and Irish (who were, of course, not considered white at the time) had disdain for African Americans and other people whom were deemed on a lower echelon of the social ladder. I am confident that, in time, African American and Hispanic voters will come to view the LGBTIAQ community (did I get all the letters?) with (more) respect and eventually this entire country will come to view same-sex the same way that almost all of us view interracial marriage. This does not mean that I am disgusted and dismayed by the fact that Prop 8 passed, but I suspect that only a decade or so ago it would have passed by a larger margin. It should also serve as a painful and unfriendly reminder that we have much work to do in terms of raising consciousness(es).
Sorry 'bout the double post!
let's also remember to leave religious judgmentalism at the door, please. i (a mainline protestant) live in the phoenix area, which is home to a large mormon population, and i have many friends who are mormon. i voted HELL NO on prop. 102 (amending the AZ state constitution to ban gay marriage) while most of my mormon friends supported it. but you know what? i disagree with them wholeheartedly, but they don't see it as discrimination, and most of them support civil unions. i RESPECTFULLY try to change their minds, while reminding myself that they're good people, who work hard and help their neighbors. i have also seen some disturbing anti-christian comments here on this blog, which upset me. i can't hold my mormon friends responsible for polygamy, and no one should hold me accountable for the friggin' crusades, all right? please remember that we're not going to win this fight by attacking anyone of faith. as soon as you have to be an athiest to be a feminist, you can count a SHITLOAD of people out.
I am sick over the result of Prop 8. And I am frustrated that some in the GLBTI community are now lashing out at the AA community, which makes up a very small part of Cali's overall population.
I hope that the No on 8 organizers now know to take into account the importance of church life in the AA (and Latin@) community, in reaching out to those voters. Religion was a much bigger factor in this than race; it just so happens that POCs tend to be very religious.
Jessica:
I appreciate the breakdown of Prop 8. My friends are on their way to protest at the LDS temple here in Salt Lake City.
However, I would just like to point out that the Church didn't actually "bankroll" the movement for 8. They may have indirectly funded efforts, but in terms of donating money to the cause itself, that was done by individual members. It was done at the Church's prompting, mind you. But for the sake of respecting the facts, I think it's important to distinguish using good old fashioned fear of god from using money. Which...I think, makes the entire thing more frightening. The Church made a pretty deliberate point of not using its own funds (which are generated from tithing), to fund it, and I think that's important to make clear.
I second what baddesignhurts said. One of the best things about the feministing blogging community is the respect for individual differences one can find here. Please continue on that way!
I second what baddesignhurts said. One of the best things about the feministing blogging community is the respect for individual differences one can find here. Please continue on that way!
I am upset about this erroneous finger pointing at African-Americans regarding Proposition 8. Why are you so quick to believe whatever you hear? If someone told me 70 percent of gay people voted against Obama my first thought would be, excuse me Jesus, that is crap! I don't believe it! This political year was fraught with right wing lies. Bear that in mind.
"Religious organizations that support Proposition 8 include the Roman Catholic Church], Knights of Columbus, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson, American Family Association, Focus on the Family[and the National Organization for Marriage Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California's largest, has also endorsed the measure. The Bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) has publicly supported the proposition and encouraged their membership to support it, by asking its members to donate money and volunteer time. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every congregation. Latter-day Saints have provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California. About 45% of out-of-state contributions to Protect Marriage.com has come from Utah, over three times more than any other state."
"Still, even though gays were fighting to preserve a basic right, it was the anti-equality side in California that seemed to have the most fervor. A symbolic low point for the gay side came on Oct. 13, when the Sacramento Bee ran a remarkable story about Rick and Pam Patterson, a Mormon couple of modest means - he drives a 10-year-old Honda Civic, she raises their five boys - who had withdrawn $50,000 from their savings account and given it to the pro-8 campaign. "It was a decision we made very prayerfully," Pam Patterson, 48, told the Bee's Jennifer Garza. "Was it an easy decision? No. But it was a clear decision, one that had so much potential to benefit our children and their children.”
This is your real enemy. Don't trust exit polls taken when many of these same groups taking them were angry with African-Americans about Obama beating their Christian Right coalition messiah ie Sarah Palin. I think they are pitting one group against the other.
African-Americans are less than 7% of the state population, do the math. And they do not have the money to fund a tens of millions of dollars Proposition 8 campaign. Note that they also targeted affirmative action for eradication in another state.
Rather than be upset at the phantom African-American menace, put forth a gay candidate for office and fight like hell. No one gave Obama anything and they will not give gays anything either. Obama stands on the shoulders of a lot of brave people who gave their lives for him to stand on that podium last night.
Never trust exits polls because in all my years of life, no one has ever been seen at a polling place asking anyone anything when they left.
I think this amendment is sad and occurs at a bad time, just when we were rejoicing for the winner of the election, and thinking that maybe America is not as discriminatory as we thought, prop8 comes around and blatantly discriminates against same-sex couples. I believe that gay people should be allowed to marry, it is a constitutional right that no one be given certain rights and others not.
It is amazing that "everyone" speaks of how terrible the discrimination and violence that AA have endured over history and how wonderful it is that the discrimination has come to 'an end' with the election of the first black president but those same people who disagree with race discrimination can then condone discrimination against another group of HUMANS. It is just absurd. Ignorance should not be met with violence but it would be nice if the media would start connecting the dots between these two issues. Society once also discriminated against, in a very violent way, black people and used religion as their crutch. People really need to wake up.
“Agree with them or not, the Catholics and Mormons that supported Prop 8 did so (as best I can tell) as we hope citizens will, raising money, holding rallies, etc. What have the California gay marriage proponents offered in return? Threats against the churches. Racist epithets. Bullying tactics meant to intimidate and terrorize those that financially backed Prop 8.
All else being equal, my gut reaction is to empathize with those being attacked by angry mobs. I suspect others feel that way as well”
The whole reason we are faced with this dilemma to begin with is because too many people believe that our choices are subject entirely to our temptations. They aren't even as mature as Forrest Gump- instead of stupid is as stupid does, they've regressed to stupid is as stupid feels. What kind of society would this be if everyone expected everyone else to "tolerate" their indecent behavior? The fact that they go so far as to object to the workings of democracy, simply because it worked against them, is an ominous manifestation of actions they believe are justified.
I don't expect everyone dealing with homosexual tendencies to deal with it the way I think they should. But I DO expect the people of this nation to be able to voice their opinion and for that opinion to be respected.
I'm sorry, that's like telling a black person that they need to respect the KKK's opinions. If I wasn't so angry, I would laugh.
Hi Guys
I do not know why your guys do not get it yet?
we do not have problem with the gay or lesbians , more you insist to get more rights the harder you get you have to much rights here do not ask for more I do not care more what you do in your bedroom but do not insist to accept your dirty sex in public and to teach our kids your idea even animals think better than some of you please stop and think for better way I do not impune my idea to you so do not tel me what to do and stop waist our money to make more problem on the street be smart and take as is , this is not discrimination on you it is wrong to married to of the same sex it is not religion it is some real do not blame someone else just please stop doing this you look more bad and all nature rules are against that but if you are ok and feel good doing but do not tell me or another people what is ok for you next step is going all the child abuse come to get their rights to get married or people live with animals ore another dirty mind people live on the earth but like I told you in the above do what do you like but in your private home or bedroom .etc . anal sex is dirty do not use no matter is guy or hetrosexual and you catch all hiv virus
Hi Guys
I do not know why your guys do not get it yet?
we do not have problem with the gay or lesbians , more you insist to get more rights the harder you get you have to much rights here do not ask for more I do not care more what you do in your bedroom but do not insist to accept your dirty sex in public and to teach our kids your idea even animals think better than some of you please stop and think for better way I do not impune my idea to you so do not tel me what to do and stop waist our money to make more problem on the street be smart and take as is , this is not discrimination on you it is wrong to married to of the same sex it is not religion it is some real do not blame someone else just please stop doing this you look more bad and all nature rules are against that but if you are ok and feel good doing but do not tell me or another people what is ok for you next step is going all the child abuse come to get their rights to get married or people live with animals ore another dirty mind people live on the earth but like I told you in the above do what do you like but in your private home or bedroom .etc . anal sex is dirty do not use no matter is guy or hetrosexual and you catch all hiv virus
ouch, that last comment hurt my eyes.... grammer. learn it. love it. even if you are spouting bigotry and hate.
as for the back lash on AA communities and in general: i look at the numbers and i see a few things. AA voters are less than 7% of california's voting public. so blaming them for the passing of prop 8 is just silly. but, the fact that the AA vote turned out in huge numbers, and those numbers voted overwhelmingly for prop 8 shows where we have outreach work to do. yes, this is a huge set-back in some ways, but as Lindsey Mysse said, this is also a huge opportunity to unite disparate groups and mobilize.
looking at the exit poles tell us, very clearly, where we have the most work to do. inclusion of poc is the one thing the yes on 8 people managed to do well. which is surprising, given the way many of the groups financing the yes vote tend to interact with poc communities. what we should be taking away from this is the idea that poc communities want to be included and the side that most effectivly does this will get their support. we have to speak to these communities in ways that take their cultural identity into account (yes had poc on their media the no side had very few if any) and speaks to them directly. and we can't wait until the last minute assuming that just because x is true y will be true as well.
P.S. My wife is the angry chick in red on the Advocate's first prop 8 story. Woo!
-grammer or grammAr?
- poles or poLLs?
- back_lash or backlash?
- effectivly or effectively?
- 'looking at the exit polls tell us [...] that' or 'looking at the exit polls tellS us [...] that'
- capitalization? punctuation where it is needed, and none where it's superfluous?
If you're gonna try to be clever and put people down on the basis of poor grammar, it might make you look a bit less idiotic if you were actually to practice what you preach--especially when a screen name hints pretty strongly at English being a foreign language to them.
Trying to put down someone else's argument on the basis of poor linguistics makes you sound petty and immature, and consequently makes your contribution hardly more worthy of attention than the barely coherent tirade you criticize.
My comment above was actually in response to firefey--I had clicked on the 'Reply' button under their post but for some reason mine was posted under all the others, rather than under firefey's. If anyone is able to move it there, please do so and just delete this note for the sake of clarity :-)
Hello all
I know I make mistake in spelling and I am not perfect but also I speak 4 different language that mean I am not perfect but I also know you guys are smart not to blame me and make me spouting bigotry and hate.because I am not, I love all people no matter what color or religion and I agree with Mona she is right and I thank her for stand up for me but in nice way we have to tell what we think and what I think all have that right but when you tell me or all the people vote against gay marriage we are stupid or bigotry it is wrong by the gay people to say that and I am sure most of them do not have problem with a gay as person what we have is not our style and they make all problem for people around them like to protest in front of the church and block our streets who pay for that time and for all police to protect them the church preach what the bible say but they do not force you to go in church or to do what they but you want to force us rest of the people to say like you want ,I have a lots friends gay and know each other well and most of them they do not want to get married look today more than 50% of hetrosexual marriage end in divorce so you want to end in that direction too or what is your idea of marriage ? or is only because we do not agree with your statement .Why gay people when they do parades they dress so out ??? what they try to show us and our kids tell me when we do that and protest or do parades in front on your house and tell what to do in your bedroom ? we never did that or do in the future so please weak up and smell a coffee and keep all you have in your sexual desire for you not for all and be smart and after all this looks like you hate more us and rest of the people who is against your idea and make clear we do not hate you but I do not like you sex life style this is complete different scope and thank you all for understanding me and let all get together to be UNITED STATE OF AMERICA THE GREAT COUNTRY OF ALL IF SOME ONE DO NOT LIKE AMERICA GO AND LIVE in Europe or some country or Africa or communist country and see what life they have there and then come back and see what is America about and you see what I am talking about
Hello all
I know I make mistake in spelling and I am not perfect but also I speak 4 different language that mean I am not perfect but I also know you guys are smart not to blame me and make me spouting bigotry and hate.because I am not, I love all people no matter what color or religion and I agree with Mona she is right and I thank her for stand up for me but in nice way we have to tell what we think and what I think all have that right but when you tell me or all the people vote against gay marriage we are stupid or bigotry it is wrong by the gay people to say that and I am sure most of them do not have problem with a gay as person what we have is not our style and they make all problem for people around them like to protest in front of the church and block our streets who pay for that time and for all police to protect them the church preach what the bible say but they do not force you to go in church or to do what they but you want to force us rest of the people to say like you want ,I have a lots friends gay and know each other well and most of them they do not want to get married look today more than 50% of hetrosexual marriage end in divorce so you want to end in that direction too or what is your idea of marriage ? or is only because we do not agree with your statement .Why gay people when they do parades they dress so out ??? what they try to show us and our kids tell me when we do that and protest or do parades in front on your house and tell what to do in your bedroom ? we never did that or do in the future so please weak up and smell a coffee and keep all you have in your sexual desire for you not for all and be smart and after all this looks like you hate more us and rest of the people who is against your idea and make clear we do not hate you but I do not like you sex life style this is complete different scope and thank you all for understanding me and let all get together to be UNITED STATE OF AMERICA THE GREAT COUNTRY OF ALL IF SOME ONE DO NOT LIKE AMERICA GO AND LIVE in Europe or some country or Africa or communist country and see what life they have there and then come back and see what is America about and you see what I am talking about