Licensing requirements put way too much power in the hands of pharmacists and pharmacies. People should use their services because they think it's a good idea, not because it's the only way to get medication they need, as it is now. If we allowed people to buy whatever medication they wanted, birth control could be mail ordered by those who don't live near a pharmacist willing to sell it.

So, a lot of people I know who take a medicine routinely, like birth control pills, get it via mail order because it's cheaper that way. I was thinking of that because it's one possible option for people who live in those areas. But then I started wondering what happens when you get mail carriers who are opposed to birth control, and they start refusing to deliver prescriptions sent by mail. Would the postal service allow this?

I'm in pharmacy school now, and I have a few religious classmates who I can imagine acting like this. Shouldn't that count as a violation of separation of church/state, since the individual pharmacist's religious views, instead of their scientific knowledge, determine which medications they sell? I mean, they can choose not to take birth control, but it seems to me that they're pushing their morals on everyone else.

I first read that headline and thought "awesome, free birth control!"

Alas. If I lived in that area I might go in on a day my cramps got real nasty and puke on their floor.

@ sara

Hopefully the mail carriers aren't looking into your packages! I'm not mocking your question (it's really frightening and I hadn't even thought of that). I think the federal laws against tampering with others' mail would bar those kinds of shenanigans. Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comstock_Law

I totally agree with Alice. I almost wish a pharmacist would try to withhold my birth control so I could unleash a wave of feminist fury. At least Targét has a no-refusal policy.

If your faith is so weak that seeing a box of condoms "compromises" it, maybe you need to rethink your religious choices.

That said, I too hope that this is not evidence of a growing trend.

So what do these people do? Not have sex or have a baby once a year for the rest of their fecund years? Don't they realize that women in their 40s who have babies are more likely to bear mentally challenged children? So i guess they assume older women don't want to have sex or don't mind if their children are disabled. Disgusting.

So what do these people do? Not have sex or have a baby once a year for the rest of their fecund years? Don't they realize that women in their 40s who have babies are more likely to bear mentally challenged children? So i guess they assume older women don't want to have sex or don't mind if their children are disabled. This trend is so sad.

I had a Catholic friend in high school and she once told me about how her relatives only had sex once a year. That sounds like a very sad marriage to me.

I just don't understand how birth control can be against religion? Where in the bible are these people getting this? I'm 19 and was raised a Christian in the very conservative South, and have never understood this (or a lot of other things about Christianity for that matter.)

Your Excellency:

Without you and your diocese's tireless articulation and advocacy of Catholic doctrine, I would not have realized that feminism and Catholicism are incompatible. Thank you.

Sincerely,

A proud ex-Catholic

(I should note for everyone that Arlington is one of two Catholic dioceses in which girls are not allowed as altar-servers. This man is no good.)

This is disturbing in so many ways. Partly for sprinkling holy water on acne meds...?

Some people get so consumed by religion that it seems they've forgotten what their faith is really about. Do they think they're winning points for "the lord" every time a woman gets pregnant without wanting to, or carries a baby to term because she can't get abortion, or gets injures from trying to self-abort?

I don't think that's what JC had in mind.

Becca B, I've always heard that people who oppose birth control do so because they believed it contradicted the verse that says "Be fruitful and multiply."

but do they carry viagra....

This is disturbing in so many ways. Partly for sprinkling holy water on acne meds...?

Some people get so consumed by religion that it seems they've forgotten what their faith is really about. Do they think they're winning points for "the lord" every time a woman gets pregnant without wanting to, or carries a baby to term because she can't get abortion, or gets injures from trying to self-abort?

I don't think that's what JC had in mind.

This is disturbing in so many ways. Partly for sprinkling holy water on acne meds...?

Some people get so consumed by religion that it seems they've forgotten what their faith is really about. Do they think they're winning points for "the lord" every time a woman gets pregnant without wanting to, or carries a baby to term because she can't get abortion, or gets injures from trying to self-abort?

I don't think that's what JC had in mind.

Becca B, I've always heard that people who oppose birth control do so because they believed it contradicted the verse that says "Be fruitful and multiply."

Some believe birth control takes the decision to have children (the multiplying) out of God's hands.

Perhaps I'm the only one who heard that.

Becca B, I've always heard that people who oppose birth control do so because they believed it contradicted the verse that says "Be fruitful and multiply." They believe birth control takes the decision to have children (the multiplying) out of God's hands and puts the decision in the hands of man.

Perhaps I'm the only one who has heard that interpretation.

Becca B, I've always heard that people who oppose birth control do so because they believed it contradicted the verse that says "Be fruitful and multiply."

Yes, some people seem to have tacked on “whether you want to or not” to that verse.

Well, I think they should allow it. As long as a) there was another pharmacy within walking distance that did NOT have the same policy, and b)they had to have a big sign out front, in multiple languages, stating "WE DO NOT FILL ALL PRESCRIPTIONS. IF WE DO NOT LIKE YOUR PRESCRIPTION WE WILL NOT FILL IT, EVEN IF IT IS TO SAVE YOUR LIFE. PHARMACY X IS WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE AND WILL FILL ANY PRESCRIPTION YOU MAY HAVE." And then beneath it, also in clear print, directions to the other pharmacy.

That way, they get to be bigots and instead of the government being the reason they change their ways, which will lead them to claim persecution, they'll simply realize that people don't want their pharmacist's medical opinion to come before their doctor's.

Trees, I've heard that interpretation alot too. But I've never understood how they can say that takes the decision out of God's hands. I think, personally, if God wanted you to get pregnant you'd get pregnant, whether you were using birth control or not.

Perhaps I can understand why a pharmacist would not like to sell the morning-after pill. (Not that I agree.)

But why on earth would these people have a moral problem with selling condoms or birth control? I mean, condoms?! How can someone claim to be pro-life and not be pro-sex? And the safer the sex, the better.

Also, I love how these people dehumanize the women they refuse to sell these products to. Ever heard of rape, incest, or just plain impoverishment/socioeconomics (coupled with ignorance from all those abstinence-only sex ed. classes)?

I would never patronize an establishment such as this.

Also, why do these people drag God into all this? MY God (who I also refuse to insult by calling "father") has nothing against contraceptives, and while she/he/it may be saddened by abortion, is nonetheless understanding and loving--a god of love, not of judgment, and most certainly not motivated by an ulterior motive to control women through their politicized bodies.

yanno, i still really want to see the free market take care of this.

the idea of these people taking out hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans, then being fruitful and multiplying, and then opening a business which fails b/c it's the most ridiculous idea i've ever heard really appeals to my sense of schadenfreude. you got your morals? hope you like them as much as you like STARVING, assholes!

i still think this should be legal under the law (after all, if there's no pharmacy in a town, no one's ordered to open one), but i do hate this idea, and urge women and men to boycott this bullshit.

I'm so tired of these fundamentalist fucktards. Why do they go into the healthcare business at all? They clearly don't care about people's health.

I'm in pharmacy school too, and this is one of the first issues they talked to us about.

The profession itself has a standard of ethics: these being non-maleficence, beneficence, justice, and autonomy. We were told that it is our job as members of the profession to not push our personal morals above the ethics of the profession as a whole; it's not our place. However, we shouldn't have to compromise our personal beliefs either, and in cases like this, are required to refer the person to a pharmacy that will fill it.

I live in a rural state, in the farming area of it, and even in the small towns, there are at least two pharmacies, so women are able to get to a place that *will* fill the prescription.

Part of the problem is that people just don't understand the mechanism of action, especially of Plan B. Depending on whichever part of the menstrual cycle the woman is on, it'll prevent ovulation, it'll mess up the way the sperm moves, or, if the egg was already produced and fertilized, it will prevent implantation. So the issue is that people who think life starts at conception have a problem with the prevention of implantation.

I personally will not understand why the Catholic Church refuses to acknowledge that some women need to be on it for health issues. I've had godawful pain during certain times of the month for the past few years, so much that all I can do is vomit and try not to move. ('course, starting the pill has given me cysts, but that's a different story entirely.)

What the hell.

Seriously, they are providing a service to the community. What does the faith of a pharmacist have to do with providing a need (or want) to people? I understand (some rational) people being pro-life. However, as was stated some people have to go almost one hundred miles to a pharmacy. I know if that kind of shit were to happen where I am from, that is where I would be.

One more thing, I really hope this does not spread any further...sometimes I feel like we are moving backwards in time.

for those asking if mail carriers could refuse to carry/look in your packages: no, because they're employees of the government, so the postal service wouldn't allow it. government is (supposedly) secular.

a private business (like this pharmacy) has more leeway in this instance. ever been to a store where they search your packages when you enter and leave? or where they have a sign saying "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"? government facilities can't do that unless you're actively observed stealing or disturbing the peace or the like. so relax.

a commenter above mentioned how target has a no-refusal policy; this, along with the superior design of their prescription bottles, is why i frequent them. for people in smaller markets, where a good pharmacy is a drive, i suggest a mailorder pharmacy.

"Also, I love how these people dehumanize the women they refuse to sell these products to."

My favorite is when they refuse to sell RU-486, when the woman has just discovered she is miscarrying and is trying to speed the process along for her own health and so she can start to grieve. That's real nice.

I'm 28 years old and have been on immunosuppressant therapy at least 5 times since I was fifteen years old due to a rare autoimmune condition. Because of all the chemo drugs I've taken my ovaries stopped producing estrogen. I found this out when one summer I was between jobs and had no health insurance (which was a scary thing). I had to stop taking my birth control for the first time in years. Suddenly I had no menstruation and hot flashes. I thought, "Well its normal for your cycle to be a little weird when you stop birth control." After several months I knew something was very wrong. Sure enough, my body had started something called pre-menopause in my twenties.

My doctors prescribe birth control not to prevent pregnancy, but to give my body the daily hormones it needs to prevent the symptoms I experienced and to help prevent ovarian cancer which I'm now more susceptible to. This is what my doctors have explained to me.

I think we can all agree - what these pharmacies are doing is plain stupid and frankly, immoral. No pharmacist should pre-judge why a patient needs medications. Luckily I don't live in a state with these kinds of aggravations. If I did, I can only imagine the kind of frustration and tears I would cry every month over this. It's bad enough knowing I'll never have the choice of getting pregnant, let alone having a pharmacist endanger my health for even one minute by refusing to fill a prescription for me.

I encourage anyone who does to sign up on CVS's website for refill deliveries via the mail. If there's a CVS anywhere in driving distance, you only have to go once a year to renew the prescription and all your refills can be mailed to your home.

Refusing to stock condoms and dispense birth control(even when you have a prescription!)places the political agenda of the pro-life movement squarely before a woman’s right to health. A pharmacist’s job is to look after its customer’s well being - not become an obstacle to their health. We need to stop this trend in its track now before more women are put at risk!

I wonder how they'd feel about a Jehovah's Witness who opens a pharmacy and refuses to dispense any medication whatsoever?

No candy, no soda, no birth control... wonder if they sell cigarettes.

No kids are ever going to go in there, that's for sure. No candy? WTF??

I'm going to get a job at the meat counter in a grocery store and refuse to sell meat because I'm a vegetarian.

Misspelled - I've often wondered that myself!!

How is it legal for a pharmacist to refuse to fulfill a doctor's order? I really don't understand that at all.

ArtofMe- Absolutely not. Mishandling/ stealing/ not delivering mail is just about the only thing a mail carrier can be fired for. Plus the Post Office is a government agency. The day the PO can refuse to deliver BC based on religious/ moral objection is the day I move... anywhere else in the world.

@uncle early:
From your comments, you seem to think the morning after pill and birth control are two different things. In actuality, the moring after pill or emergency contraception (I go with EC because it’s easier to type), is hormonal birth control. EC works to prevent pregnancy in exactly the same manner as the pill, that’s why there is a time-window for its efficacy. EC is birth control, in fact, some types of regular birth control pills are used as EC. Just wanted to clear that up as it’s a common misconception.

@Shade:
I think it’s important to note that the most accepted mechanisms by which hormonal birth control works is by preventing ovulation and by thickening the cervical mucus, making a kind of barrier between the sperm and the egg (I assume that’s what you meant by “it’ll mess up the way sperm moves”). It may change the lining of the uterus which might prevent a fertilized egg from implanting, but that has never been proven. I point that out because the anti-choice/anti-birth control crowd like to talk as if it is fact so they can try to label it an abortifacient. Which doesn't make sense either because, by definition, no implanation, no pregnancy, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

Why stop at The Pill? Why sell any medications at all? Surely the anti-acne medication is interfering with God's plan for you to have embarrassing facial infections and permanent scarring! Eugh and while I'm on the topic, I'll intersect: some of the most effective ance treatments would cause you to have an extremely retarded or deformed child if you did fall pregnant; so young married women with severe problem skin should just what, not have sex? Or let a disfiguring and highly stigmatizing disorder continue to run its neverending course?

Don't discount the ability of the government to interfere with the distribution of birth control. Certainly the government could regulate, or even ban, the distribution of all pharmaceuticals through the postal service. Just like you can't ship alcohol. I'm sure that could be something for a Sarah Palin administration to get started on.

Someone above brought up Jehovah's Witnesses. Oddly enough, as crazy as the religion is, they have a much more reasonable position than the Catholic church on this topic -- they use all medications, including all forms of birth control. However, they refuse blood transfusions and will not participate in them as a medical provider (which is crazy, but whatever). Therefore, they are instructed to not take jobs where they would have to be put in such a moral conflict. Huh. Maybe the Catholic pharmacists should give that some thought: You don't want to distribute birth control because of your moral beliefs -- don't work in a pharmacy!

My bad on the Jehovah's Witnesses. Replace with [follower of one of those crazy cultish splinter groups that believe any prescribed medical treatment interferes with God's plan].

I would actually not have a problem with this IF:
1. There was another pharmacy/convenient and safe online services to provide birth control to those who need it, and
2. ALL pharmacies that refused to sell birth control, even on prescription, were required to label themselves accordingly. It's better to know in advance that a pharmacy won't fill your prescription than encountering a wingnut at your local CVS.

As long as women are still able to get what we need, I'm fine with letting crazies isolate themselves with their sacramental benzoyl (sp) peroxide.

My mind has just exploded.

I can /almost/ understand denying abortive things, like morning-after pills from a pro-life standpoint. But then denying condoms is on the opposite side of the spectrum.

Denying MAPS/etc. --> "Thou shalt not procreate!"
Denying condoms --> "Thou must procreate!"

Misspelled: Good example is always Christian Science, they refuse everything medical.

So if a Scientologist refuses to give someone schizophrenia meds, is that okay too? And more importantly, if they then go out and kill someone because they were off their meds, can the pharmacist go to jail?

And if a woman dies because she didn't have access to a BC she needed to regualte her hormones, can her family accuse the pharmacist of murder?

Merk: It's not thou shalt not procreate. It's thou shalt not have sex outside of marriage, and in marriage, thou shalt procreate like a rabbit.

I agree with Ximena. This is unacceptable and needs to stop now. Many people here have brought up great points. I would like to take action here. Anyone else up for contacting their local politicians?

@ ShelbyWoo
I'm just going off of the mechanisms we've discussed in class for Plan B - and just for accuracy's sake, I'll quote from what Goodman & Gilman has to say on the subject:

"Some studies have shown that ovulation is inhibited or delayed, but additional mechanisms thought to play a role include alterations in endometrial receptivity for implantation; interference with functions of the corpus luteum that maintain pregnancy; production of a cervical mucous that decreases sperm penetration; alterations in tubular transport of sperm, egg, or embryo; or effects on fertilization. However, emergency contraceptives do not interrupt pregnancy after implantation."

You are right in that the usual forms of hormonal birth control generally don't interfere with implantation; I was specifically talking about Plan B - and again, it hasn't been definitively proven, but so much of what we take for granted in medicine hasn't :P. Plan B is also a much much higher dose than regular hormonal pills, which is why taking your usual BC after unprotected sex (if you've missed a day, or what have you) won't prevent pregnancy.

As for whoever asked if pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions was legal - it absolutely is. There are often cases where patients "doctor shop" for pain meds, or where there are certain interactions with medication from another doctor that would lead to patient harm. Most of my experience is in retail pharmacy and long-term care, and we frequently refuse to fill prescriptions especially for the long-term care patients, because of untoward risk for the person. (For example, a elderly patient on methadone being prescribed Levaquin will end up being a dead patient, as both drugs affect heart rhythm. In this case, we would refuse to fill it and recommend an equally effective antibiotic without that particular side effect).

@Hallidite
Actually, we're legally not to dispense those acne medications (in my state, at least) unless the person has verified with the doc or us that they're on at least two forms of birth control.

*would like to add an addition to her post*

I certainly believe in a woman's right to receive medication, and it is partially the fault of the more radical fundamentalist pharmacists that Plan B has been labeled an 'abortion pill' - because really, there's no way to prove which of its mechanisms was the one that worked for that particular woman, and it's only those who believe that life begins with fertilization have the big problem with it.

I don't understand why they would deny this shit to someone who isn't a Christian.

It's disgusting. There are other religions in the United States! Many of them don't care about birth control! What do they think "freedom of religion" even means, that it gives Christianity certain privileges over the law and other religions? I don't think so.

What about that service that delivers your medication to you? Apparently this same service I'm thinking of, which the name of is escaping me, is also cheaper. All of you have to do is fill out the paperwork and give it to your doctor or something. I'm good on my birth control for the next three months.

I'm sure if folks w/o access to birth control ordered it by mail, the anti-choicers would accuse such deliveries as being the same as terrorist packages!!!!

Those who live in this community and who oppose this policy need to write the owners of the pharmacy, and tell them that they will not buy so much as a pack of gum from their establishment until the policy is reversed. Copy all your friends. Copy the local newspaper editor. Copy xeroxes of the letter and post them all over town. Vote with your dollars.

If you run a local business yourself, and know the name of the pharmacist, refuse to do any business with him. Let him know what it is like to be denied service. ("My religion forbids me from selling to assholes.")

If reports surface of the pharmacist confiscating prescriptions, start bringing cartloads of items to the cash register, discover that, oops! you've forgotten your checkbook, and walk out.

Call his phone line and ask if he carries birth control. When he says no, tell him that's a shame, because it means you can't shop there.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

"I don't understand why they would deny this shit to someone who isn't a Christian."

Because they believe that everyone should be a Christian. It isn't about freedom of religion--that's a necessary evil, at best--it's about rescuing souls. To us it's patronizing and infuriating, but for the most part, these people, and a lot of people who are going to vote for Propositions 4 and 8 in California (parental notification and "protection of marriage," respectively) honestly believe they're doing the right thing. They honestly believe that homosexual sex and sex outside of marriage are sins, and maybe that birth control is a sin (the Vatican, I understand, actually has a pretty hard time convincing your average Catholic), and that abortion is murder, and they want to prevent YOU from having blood on your hands, because believe me when I tell you how heartwrenching it is when you know without a doubt that someone you care about is going to Hell and you can't do anything about it.

The most thoughtful of them (I say "them" these days) have actually read their New Testaments and have the common sense to know that you don't bring someone around to your point of view by alienating them. Unfortunately, not all of the conservatively religious are that thoughtful. 1500 years of (Western, orthodox, New Testament) Christianity on top means never having to compromise.

I'm not trying to defend pharmacists that refuse to dispence pharmaceuticals for nonmedical reasons, or anti-choice protesters harassing health clinics, or any of that kind of behavior. I think it's awful, and terrifying that it's so acceptable. But the most thoughtful and practical of us are going to realize that you don't win people over to your point of view by alienating them. Use their tactics against them: write graphic, tearjerking accounts of preeclampsia and poverty and depression and PCOS and spina bifida and send a copy to the pharmacy in Virgina and to every other person you're tempted to label a wing-nut. You won't convince all of them, but a pretty good number of them still have hearts, and just have never been told that there's a different way to live the Gospel.

"You won't convince all of them, but a pretty good number of them still have hearts, and just have never been told that there's a different way to live the Gospel."

But that's the problem with these people - why do they need to be TOLD? Why doesn't anyone in this country seem to possess even a smidgen of intellectual curiosity anymore? Why do so many people not bother to question what they learned growing up? The older I get the more I realize that well over half of the human race is willfully ignorant and begging to be led so they don't have to think for themselves. It's sad and pathetic and I'm just glad there are people like everyone here to make me feel better :)

America is supposed to practice religious freedom. Therefore, YOUR beliefs are not open to question. If these pharmacists believe that strongly in a religion that doesn't allow for contraception, then maybe they made a bad career choice, but it should be THEIR problem, not their customers'! What's MOST scary is that anyone that stupid is even ALLOWED to become a pharmacist!

I don't understand why pharmacists are allowed to make the choice to sell or not to sell someone birth control. They are not doctor; their job is not to regulate what I take.

Until recently, I worked in a library. My job was, in part, to check out books to people. It didn't matter what book they had, I scanned it and handed it to them.

Let's say for instance I was against dogs...for this scenerio, dogs are against my religion and I don't think people should have them as pets (not sure what religion I am!) If someone had came to check out a book on dogs or adopting a new puppy or something, and I refused to check it out to them on 'moral grounds' or because it was 'against my religion' I would have been FIRED.

It was not my job to regulate what people read. The only time I gave my opinion was if someone asked "Is this a good book?" Pharmacists should do the same. It's not their place to tell someone what medication to take or not to take; their only comments should fall in the lines with "Does this come in generic?" or something similar.

You have got to be kidding me! I'm seventeen and have to take birth control to regulate my periods... no sexual activity there. And I live in another part of Virginia where it is semi-easy to get to a pharmacy but still, not everybody or place has that privelege. And in response to Trees statement "but they have viagra" THANK YOU!

The Catholic teaching against 'artificial' contraception is based on the Natural Law, which basically states that condoms, which have existed for thousands of years, are unnatural, whereas digital thermometers used to increase the accuracy of FAM/NFP are not. This makes perfect sense when you realize that the Church hierarchy, consisting of celibate males, resents the hell out of the sex-having lay Catholics (so to speak, heh), particularly women. We're all supposed to emulate the Virgin Mary, who never had sex with Joseph (hah!) but was a mother anyway. (Surely you can all see why that's a problem.)

Personally I suspect the reasons 'Natural' Family Planning is OK with the Church are: 1) the abysmal typical-use failure rates, and 2) it can work well IF IF IF you stick to it, but if you are avoiding the punishment of babies for your filthy urges, you should pay by being horny and miserable during the woman's fertile phase. Suffering is noble! Also, mandatory!

Catholic Church refuses to acknowledge that some women need to be on it for health issues

The Catholic Church does not consider hormonal contraception taken for the purpose of period regulation or other non-contraceptive medical uses to be a sin. (Although Sarah Haskins seems to.) While I am not a fan of the Catholic Church, I prefer not to see their policies misquoted. They are wacky enough that we don't need to make stuff up.

let capitalism do it's work. this mom and pop place is already less competitive with the main chains, not selling contraceptives will only hurt their business. I will smile when they close down. :)
and ps
I agree that all this "pharmacist's choice" stuff is bullshit, just give me my damn yaz.

As much as these people make me sick, this pharmacy pisses me off much less than the "secular" ones that allow their individual pharmacists decide which medications they'll dispense. At least this one broadcasts its backwards, anti-woman philosophy publicly. I'd rather know ahead of time and just avoid the place completely, rather than being blindsided by the Rite Aid I've been shopping at for years.
Hopefully it will just fail miserably.

A lot of people ask why these people went into pharmacy in the first place when they don't intend to do their jobs. Well, most of these pharmacists go into the profession specifically to "change the culture" (i.e. control women). It's not an accident or anything. Conservative Christian schools are training their students to impose their narrow beliefs on unsuspecting folks who are just going about their business. Their unwillingness to dispense birth control, etc. is a feature, not a bug.

Frumious B, even still, does that mean that this pharmacy or Catholic pharmacists will dispense BC for medical reasons? And what, will they require women to reveal their private medical history to get it? That's a HIPPA violation.

@ Fruminous B

Thanks for correcting me on that; I was aware of their view on using it strictly as birth control and several catholic friends refuse to use it for medical issues, so I incorrectly assumed that was the general view of the church.

@Holden

"Pharmacists should do the same. It's not their place to tell someone what medication to take or not to take; their only comments should fall in the lines with "Does this come in generic?" or something similar."

Except we go to school for 6 years to be able to tell people what medication to take or not to take - we have years of pharmacological training to be able to precisely do that. No, we're not diagnosticians by any means and we should definitely follow the treatment plans the doctors set up, but our job involves more than just counting pills and handing you the bottle.

I'm married and we practice NFP. In all honesty, it's added to our marriage in ways we never expected. We'll never do the pill again. I think one of the worst things planned parenthood has done for everyone in educating, has been treating the pill as primary method for avoiding pregnancy (when in the context of a marriage for instance). From our experience, NFP is far superior.

It's my opinion that since many Christian denominations embrace it, planned parenthood doesn't give it the attention is very much deserves.

Except we go to school for 6 years to be able to tell people what medication to take or not to take - we have years of pharmacological training to be able to precisely do that.

Absolutely. Pharmacists are the last line of professional defense against medication errors and/or dangerous combinations of meds (many times they are the only line of defense against this - especially if a customer has multiple doctors prescribing multiple meds). They are, and should be, the go to person for help in choosing over-the-counter meds as well.

Shade is right, let's not write-off pharmacists as a whole just because a few of them think their personal religious beliefs trump a doctor/patient decisions.

Pharmacists are supposed to be trained to help avoid things like bad interactions and possible health problems (like Shade was saying). They are not supposed to make personal judgment calls on your worth as a person, or the effect it may have on your "soul". If I shouldn't take BC because my head might explode due to an interaction with another med, then I would be happy that the pharmacist caught it in time. That's very different that someone making a personal judgment call based in religion (or whatever else).

That's the distinction, science vs opinion.

I think it's great that PP advocates the pill and not NFP- simply because the 80-90% effectiveness of NFP, when it's being done correctly, is too much of a margin for error for me (and many others, I'm sure).
I'm pretty sure it's lack of safety from disease and higher pregnancy rates is one of the reasons PP doesn't push it, not because of religion...

Hi Halo - Depending on which method one uses... marquette method, basal body temp method, etc, those are about 99% accurate. And this has been true in our marriage too, since in spacing our children, we've been able to avoid pregnancy ever single time we've used it...

If they were only 90% accurate for any given month, the likelihood that we'd been pregnant within a year would be (1 - 0.9^12) = 0.718 ... or 71.8%!!!!.

Those are not the odds we've been working with.

I love how this "pro-life" pharmacy would deny me birth control. Sure, I use it for birth control purposes, but I also use it for it's prevention of ovarian cysts (an extremely painful pain that I've had to deal with twice before getting on the bc). I also have a mother who died of breast cancer and an aunt who had stage IV ovarian cancer and found out she has the gene for it. Taking birth control will likely decrease my risk for ovarian cancer and prevent my ovarian cysts.

As always pro-life means pro-fetal-life only. They don't give a damn if I die from cancer or have to sit in bed for three days curled up in a little ball of pain. Thanks pro-life pharmacy!

Why not Drugstore.com?

Whenever I hear about people who drive 80 miles for pills and live in someplace with horrible and judgmental pharmacists, I always wonder why they don't just send their prescription in to Drugstore.com and have them fill it? It's an amazing choice for either women in birth control challenged areas or lazy women like me who prefer not to schlep to CVS each month. They fill my prescription every month with zero drama and no work on my part.

Your doctor can actually call your prescription in to them directly or you can fax or transfer it. They take insurance, if you have it, cash if you don't. Granted, it's $2.95 for delivery, but that's way cheaper than paying for gas to drive 80 miles each way.

Maybe one challenge for these women would be a lack of internet access, but you can always try the public library. Because you only need to set up the prescription one time and put it on auto-refill, it could be a real option.

I realize it doesn't solve the core problem, but it's an instant solution to the day to day issue.

elephlux- That's great that it works for you, but your anecdotal evidence doesn't line up with statistical evidence. The fact is that it's not nearly as reliable as other methods (such as the pill or barrier methods) therefore it's not highly recommended for most people.

On that note, I wonder if these "pro-life" pharmacies offer the supplies and information needed to use the various fertility awareness methods?

elephux:

Planned Parenthood treats the pill as the “primary method for avoiding pregnancy” because it is the primary method for the majority of women in the U.S. However, they do provide impartial information on all types of birth control, including natural family planning (which they call Fertility Awareness-Based Methods). They are not biased toward the pill – that just happens to be the method most women choose (whether they utilize Planned Parenthood or not) because it's effective and easy to use.

Halo, I simply don't know where you pulled the 80% - 90% statistics from. Maybe this is true for the rhythm method... but most of the modern NFP methods simply have much better statistics than 80% - 90%. I didn't make the 99% effectiveness number up, there have been several studies which point to 99% effectiveness, within a reasonable interval of confidence (like within 95 % confidence).

I wasn't only offering my "anecdotal" experience with it. These are hard and true numbers.

Furthermore, if the modern NFP methods were really 90% effective, the (1 - 0.9^12) = 71.8% statistical likelihood of getting pregnant is also true. But there are no studies that I've come across that say people using NFP are getting pregnant at this astronomical rate within each year of using the modern methods.

The statistics you found are simply incorrect, or intentionally misleading.

Besides the fact that I am against pharmacists imposing their religious views on women and trying to control women's bodies, bc is taken for various medical conditions. So do they realize that they are making women at risk to not just pregnancy. Someone already mentioned that they have to take it after recieving chemo drugs and I know women who take it because they have ovarian cysts. So what, they can't get the medical treatment they need because of a pharmacists beliefs?! Ridiculous. I hope more women in small towns where there isn't many options start using online refill options.

Yes, I've heard the "Be fruitful and multiply" thing too. But the bible was written when there were soo many fewer people on Earth. Not as many children made it to adulthood so of course they had to compensate by having more children. But come on, there are 6 billion people on the planet. Ya think we need many more?

Try the CDC, WHO, and assorted medical journals. Where you getting your numbers?

Seriously though, in the interest of not being a thread derailing jerk, I'm going to suggest that we end this discussion here. We disagree. The numbers do too. Most of us already know what works and what doesn't.

What's more infuriating is that religious folk seem to pick and choose which rules and traditions from the Bible they want to follow. I mean I came from a religious background and I've read a lot of the Bible and if these jerks followed half of what it said, they'd be labelled insane. The bible talks about using slaves, selling their daughters, incest, killing (as a positive thing), etc. . They pick rules to follow which support the views they already have (women having sex for fun is sinful). Why is the one little line "be fruitful and multiply" more important to enforce than the other archane verse forbidding the wearing of braids in church? Picking and choosing, that's all it is.

elephux:
The effectiveness can be up to 99% - but that does not mean that it is the rate for everyone; many factors can drop that rate (the CDC – a highly regarded and reliable source – says 75-99% effectiveness). For natural family planning methods to be highly effective, it requires a lot motivation and great diligence. In other words, yes, natural family planning does provide effective birth control if you put in the work, but, frankly, most people just don’t want to deal with all of that when they can use a much easier method with more reliable efficacy.

Someone else mentioned the availability of Viagara. But remember, Viagara is Christian-ok, because it could actually be used TOWARDS being fruitful and multiplying.

But guess what? It's still hypocritcal: here's why.

1.) Let's say an obviously gay male couple enters the pharmacy and wants to buy Viagara. The pharmacist sees them and says s/he refuses to sell the Viagara to the couple because obviously, they aren't going to use the medication to be "fruitful and multiply." Would the couple have a case against the pharmacy? I don't know Virginia law, but I hope so, and something tells me they would.

2.) Let's even go one step further. Same situation, but replace the gay males with a straight, elderly couple. Octogenarians. Obviously, this post-menopausal woman can't multiply. Would the pharmacy have the legal right to deny them Viagara? I bet they wouldn't!

So, in other words, this is the EXACT SAME SITUATION in which a pharmacist is refusing to sell medication on the grounds that people should not be allowed to make their own decisions about sexuality. In the BC case, it's legal, but in the other cases, it's not?

Also, Someguy, GREAT point. What's with this sinful Christian population ignoring their other God-given duties? These pharmacists should also refuse to sell tampons because women are supposed to hide out feeling sorry for themselves when they have their periods. Actually, tampons are super sinful, because they can penetrate virgin vaginas. Also, the female pharmacists shouldn't be at work when they have their periods, they should, again, be sitting at home doing nothing until they are no longer dealing with the "curse of blood."

does that mean that this pharmacy or Catholic pharmacists will dispense BC for medical reasons?

No, because individuals frequently act in ways that are not countenanced by the church they believe in. Did you realize that some Catholics even use birth control? The point is, please do not conflate wacky individual actions with wacky institutional doctrine.

My periods made me anemic, plus I threw up not only during them, but also at the time of ovulation before I went on the pill. And had cramps of course, plus I got migraines. Basically, I had over a week where I could barely do anything, plus another couple unpleasant days in mid-cycle.
Even on the pill, I still have migraines, but they are milder, relatively speaking, and at least know when they'll come, and I'm not throwing up all the damn time, and I can generally go to work every day of the shorter period I now have.

Without the pill, if I happened to be employed at the time, I had to take at least a day off, usually two, because I just plain could not do a damn thing except lay curled up on my side. Then the other period days where I was able to actually drag myself in, I wasn't always real productive.
It's probably no surprise some employers didn't understand my problem any more than these holier-than-thou pharmacists, but that's another topic.

If you have a prescription discount card, does drugstore.com give you that?
Luckily I don't have to worry about being denied access currently, but I wonder.

These people are insane.

If they disagreed with a customers want to fill out their prescription for cancer medicine would they be able to deny them that too? WHY only birth control.
Women take birth control for many things other than simply birth control. Essentially, if taking lifesaving flu medicine could possibly make me infertile or act in the same way as birth control does, would they be able to deny it to me?
Oh well, I guess it'd be better to simply die than possibly stepping on these assholes feet and making them NOT force their religion onto me and my life. Would they do this to men too?

These kinds of bullshit allowances only jeopardize public health - especially for women.

"Alas. If I lived in that area I might go in on a day my cramps got real nasty and puke on their floor. "

"I almost wish a pharmacist would try to withhold my birth control so I could unleash a wave of feminist fury"

Feminanimal, Katie ....my sentiments EXACTLY!That would probably be good for publicity.It would highlite media-wise the reality faced by millions of women in their respective states who dont even know it.

First of all, religion should not be brought into a place of business unless your place of business happens to be working for a church, synagogue, mosque, or another place of religious practice. Second of all, the percentage of unmarried people engaging in sexual intercourse while practicing catholicism has risen greatly. To say that you will need provide these imperative family planning methods is absurd in not seeing the changing of the times that society is going through. Each person has their own choice no matter what their religion is to choice to use these methods. To not provide them as a business owner proves you are a horrible business owner. You do not know the first thing about owning a business and have obviously never taken a class to teach you that owning a business is not about your personal morals and values in life, it is about making money, succeeding, and supplying your customers with everything they can ever possibly need. In conclusion, people have sex. Let it be safe and go along with the words of the great Bob Dylan when he said, "These times are a changin'".

@Halo

"They are not supposed to make personal judgment calls on your worth as a person, or the effect it may have on your "soul". . . .

That's the distinction, science vs opinion."

Exactly. That's the way it should be, and in fact our professors (all pharmacists themselves), have many times emphasized the importance of patient autonomy. They boiled it down to "Behavior like this devalues the profession and breaks the code of ethics you vowed to adhere to."

Like I said before though, we have autonomy too, in being allowed to not dispense things we're uncomfortable with. I did work with a pharmacist who disliked Plan B; however, if a woman needed it, he simply had one of the other people working sell it to her and instruct her in its use (there were always at least two people working in this pharmacy). One could say that that's splitting hairs if the woman is getting it either way, but he didn't see it that way. End result: he didn't feel like he was compromising his beliefs, and the woman got the medicine she needed.

I would like to add that it is a little frustrating to see the general bashing of the profession because of the poor choices from a few pushy fundamentalists. (Or the fact that we forget that those fundamentalists exist in other professions as well; there are a few (female!) OB-GYN in my area who will refuse to write married women prescriptions for birth control.)

This makes me so angry.

Of course, I am 100% pro birth control to prevent pregancy, but I wonder if these people have never heard of people who take bc for serious medical reasons?

(Not that preventing pregnancy is not a serious medical reason- it is- but they do not agree with that goal. I assume they do agree with the goal of preventing infertility, severe pain, and death. Or maybe I give them too much credit.)

What about people like my sister who take "birth control" pills to prevent ovarian cysts? She has already had 2 operations to remove these dangerous cysts, and almost had to have an ovary removed. One reason she takes bc is so she CAN have a child someday. Ironically, no bc would cause her to be unable to be "fruitful and multiply" because she would likely lose both ovaries.

"....there are a few (female!) OB-GYN in my area who will refuse to write married women prescriptions for birth control"

Fuck, that ought to be SOOO illegal!No one has the right to deny a woman her BC - for ANY reason!

I admit to skimming, so I may have missed someone else suggesting this. If so, I apologize.

The only problem I can come up with is a moral and upstanding pharmacy owner profiting from forsaking moral principles.

So, to avoid that, just sell these items at cost.

Unless this pharmacy is propped up with private donations, which I can certainly see happening, I predict it will be out of business shortly. I mean, how stupid can these people be?

Since women still are relegated to running errands and doing housework for the family, most people who pick up prescriptions are likely women. (There's also the fact that women are far more likely to go to the doctor than men.) Are women of child-bearing age really going to go to more than one pharmacy to humor these people? I think not. They'll go to one pharmacy to get all their prescriptions filled, which means these "pro-life" pharmacies' only customers will be single men and the elderly. Not a recipe for success.

I really don't get people like these pharmacists who politicise their personal viewpoints. I mean, no one forces devout Muslims or Mormons to work in liquor stores; there's no reason why these people should work as pharmacists and then refuse to sell BC. If they'd gone into medicine they'd be the gynaes who won't give AI to lesbians or unmarried women. And then they raise hell. It doesn't freaking make sense!

No, because individuals frequently act in ways that are not countenanced by the church they believe in. Did you realize that some Catholics even use birth control? The point is, please do not conflate wacky individual actions with wacky institutional doctrine.

That's a good point, though. I wish some pro-choice pharmacies with religious staff would make the news, I always feel bummed when every member of a certain faith (including mine, I'm Catholic) draws flak for something not everyone does. Though I suppose if those people were in the media their religious leaders would come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Basically, when pharmacies like these exist, everyone gets screwed over. (Women who need BC, of course, get screwed over the most.)

im tired of being livestock to some people.

maybe i dont want to leave my uterus available.

not your decision.

uggggggghhh
when will it end????????