How is McCain going to call Obama an unpatriotic Muslim Arab terrorist who is trying to steal the election, without actually calling him an unpatriotic Muslim Arab terrorist who is trying to steal the election? That will be some neat trick. This should be interesting. I hear the moderator, Bob Scheiffer has a soft spot in his heart for McCain; let's hope it's not a factor. Tick... tock... tick... tock...

Stop with the Joe Plummer and Joe 6-pack talk. And McCain, stop interrupting.

I'm disappointed Obama didn't criticize Palin more when he was given the chance.

Nail in the coffin.

So, McCain's solution to a terrible, failing health care system is more walk-in clinics? Something tells me he's never had to use one.

And his suit is bad.

Why Joe, gentlemen?

WHY?

Why not Jenny for once?

I make more money than my partner.
My partner comes to me for financial advice.
My auntie is the one who owns the small business, not her husband.
I pay my taxes.
I understand basic economics.

I am a "Jenny."

I'm a woman.

Can major politicians acknowledge me? When?

Thank you, Obama, for rightly saying that abortion rights should not be subject to "popular referendum any more than another Constitutional right" (paraphrase). If I could vote for you twice, I would.

FINALLY. The A(bortion) -word.

I'm too drunk to analyze and dissect their arguments, but I don't trust McCain when he says he won't try to mess with the law on the federal level :/

Sorry John, Sarah Palin is NOT a role model for all women. She is certainly not my role model.

Did you seriously just raise your fingers and make the "quotes" sign and say..the "health" of the mother????

Senator McCain, mother's lives are sacred, too. How dare you imply that our health is a joke or a political ploy or is somehow worth your derision.

That made me furious.

It was towards the end of the debate. It better be in the post debate coverage.

Oh my God. McCain just said that concern about the health of the mother is a fringe position. Good to know where he stands, I suppose.

Samhita, Jessica & all the editors: Much thanks for setting up this live discussion! So awesome! Made the debate way better!

Rachel Maddow on MSNBC right now...

"a lot eye rolling..""

I guess I wasn't as informed as I thought. Obama is for charter schools and merit pay for teachers? I'm so disappointed. And mad. Does anyone know anything about this? Ugh.

Samhita, Jessica & all the editors: Much thanks for setting up this live discussion! So awesome! Made the debate way better!

CNN pundit is calling Obama "flat and professorial" and McCain "aggressive and on the offense." Others say McCain "won."

I'd take out the "flat" (it's a bit harsh), but otherwise I'd agree.

HAHAHA--Paul Begala (Dem) just said the reaction shots were "killing" McCain--and that he looked like "Grumpy McNasty!"

Well, why shouldn't teachers be paid for their merit? I remember plenty of teachers in the public schools I went through that shouldn't have been paid enough for a school lunch, much less union wages, and a few who certainly weren't being paid enough.

The only problem comes in when you try to apply merit pay to government employees. If schools were private (which a lot more people would be able to afford if they weren't paying for the Department of Education, our dozens of foreign military bases, and bailouts), merit based pay would be taken for granted.

Live interview with Hillary Clinton coming up on CNN!!

I already blogged about this as it was happening. My pet peeve of the night.... McCai talking about helping young women have the courage to have the baby. Sooo... you just called every woman who's had an abortion a coward.

Mere words cannot express how insanely angry that makes me.

Well...I think McLame hung himself with the "health of the mother" rope. That really pissed me off. Numb fuck!

McCain used the term "Pro-abortion" TWICE! Even after Obama had corrected him. Yea, you're definitely going to bring in the woman vote that way, also by saying that women are "stretching" the health of the mother suggestion. F you McCain.

And will McCain give full and free health care to pregnant women? What about paid sick leave? Will he support pregnant women living off the state? And adoption is just so easy. Staunchly pro-life, yearh, for the last 2 years. Now Roe is a mistake and should be overturned. Didn't seem to have that opinion 4 years ago.

And will McCain give full and free health care to pregnant women? What about paid sick leave? Will he support pregnant women living off the state? And adoption is just so easy. Staunchly pro-life, yearh, for the last 2 years. Now Roe is a mistake and should be overturned. Didn't seem to have that opinion 4 years ago.

I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but McCain kept saying that palin's son has Autism. He has Down's Syndrome. I think it's clear how well he knows his vp candidate.

I tried to check into the live blog during the debate and it was going too fast for me to read!

I flipped off McCain when he said Palin was a role model for women, and started yelling at the t.v. (which I normally don't do at all during debates) when he was talking about abortion. I'm so glad Obama said, in essence, that it isn't something that the government should be deciding.

Stephatron, I noticed that too. I wondered if he thought they were the same thing or something?

I also wondered how he and Palin were going to help families with special needs children without spending any more money (or any at all with that spending freeze he keeps proposing).

You know what's real fun? Flipping between watching McCain crack and watching the Dodgers crack in the NLCS series.

There were no fewer than three times when I had NO idea what McCain was trying to say. He just seemed to be an angry bumbling crazy person.

I wasn't able to get online during the debate, but the two things that really stuck with me:

1. Sarah Palin is a role model...to WOMEN???? Someone, please, tell me HOW. I feel like someone just told me Britney Spears would be a good role model for my daughter.

2. Is this new, rich Joe the guy from that Average Joe program from a couple years ago? I think that show's already been done, Johnny.

@barley Just curious- what's your beef with charter schools? Is it a funding accountability issue? I'm totally biased because I currently work for one, so I'd love to hear a different perspective.

But I was similarly surprised to hear Obama supports merit-based pay.

Alice, the problem with merit pay is that right now "merit" is code for "student performance on standardized tests," rather than "meaningful experience, positive impact on students, and contribution to the field."

One thing that Obama could have said about McCain's claim that the rate of autism has skyrocketed, is that the picture is significantly more complex than that (rather than the black and white picture that McCain wants to paint for us on everything).

Yes, the rate of autism diagnosis has gone up, BUT the rate of mental retardation diagnosis has gone down correspondingly. So it's not really that there are MORE autistic people, simply that they are being diagnosed correctly. Of course, this does not help the Palin's child, who has Downs Syndrome.

Of course it's always Joe. It has to be; it's supposed to distinguish the so-called "everyday American" from someone named Barack. (Because presidents have never, ever been named things like Woodrow or Millard or Ulysses or Rutherford or Lyndon.)

In other words: It's a dog whistle.

@katemore, love the Millard Fillmore reference. :)

Also I wanted Obama to be clearer that Joe Wurzelbocher (whom McCain called Wurzelberger) isn't an "average Joe." He's about to buy a plumbing business that does more than a quarter-million in business per year.

Like others, I was surprised to know that Obama supports both charter schools and merit pay. I don't know much about charter schools, though I do support merit pay. I understand the point about student achievement *right now*, but teachers' unions have historically opposed merit pay, even when NCLB wasn't an issue. Hillary Clinton actually made lots of enemies in Arkansas because she pushed for merit pay when Bill was governor.

Overall I thought Obama needed to be more assertive at some points, but I think he finished more strongly than he started. And I really think healthcare is the next big issue in this country and realized how uninformed McCain seems to be.

I'm glad McCain let his rage flag fly tonight. The air quotes and disgusted tone re: the health of the mother, his eye-rolls and smirks and constant interuptions, his confusion re: the difference between autism and down syndrome, et al. I'm pretty sure there were once a lot of women out there who mistakenly thought McCain was pro-choice. Well there's no mistaking his feelings on the subject after watching him speak about women tonight. \
I wish Obama would have hammered McCain on HIS ties to terrorists, but at least he calmly explained his own innocent ties to Ayers and ACORN. The reason the Republicans hate ACORN is that it's a community organization that dares to mobilize disenfranchized, marginalized groups of people who tend not to vote Republican.
Anyway, I envy Obama's self-control. I don't know if the man is burning up inside or whether he's genuinely cool as a cucumber; either way he totally rocked it in the final debate.

On Obama and Merit Based Pay-

He has said in his plan that he supports merit based pay but it should not be specifically based on standardized test scores only.

The whole abortion issue was infuriating and the way McCain just brushed off Obama's Lily Ledbetter's comment with something about law suits was disgusting. They whole time Obama was incredibly serious and McCain just seemed to think the whole abortion issue was stupid and that women just need to shut up.

BlueCat, I was under the impression that even after controlling for the improvements in diagnostic techniques and knowledge, autism rates are still rising faster than expected.

McCain, on the other hand, has publicly said that the increase in autism rates is a result of modern vaccinations, whereas scientists have over and over again found no evidence of such a causal link.

But yeah, still no relation to Palin.

Sarah Palin has a nephew with autism. She also has some cousins with autism/Asperger's. In fact since autism is diagnosed by watching how people develop and communicate, there is no way of knowing whether Trig or any other infant has it or not. There are no *medical* tests that diagnose autism.

The autism remarks had nothing to do with her child.

The comments were also irrelevant to the debate. My mother and sister have both had skin cancer; that doesn't make me a dermatologist.

You know who else thought a spending freeze would fix the economy? Herbert Hoover. You know what the best way to kill an economy that is struggling is? Spending freeze.

I only got to see the last half hour or so of the debate (stupid work) but I had to leave when McCain started to talk about abortion.

to sami--
Guillermo liveblogging - ha ha. I'm sure he could do a number on McCain's suit... and give him the 'crazy eye' too. Jewelry would just sit on him. That'd be enough :)