SEE!!! IT'S NOT JUST US CRAZY MUSLIMS WHO DO THAT!!!

*sarcastic*

Well this is really upsetting.

I'm Jewish (although I'm not at all religious, I just see myself as Jewish in ethnicity) and I was recently in Israel a couple of months ago. The experience was incredible. I went with a group called Shorashim through Birthright and it really was a life changing experience. I saw the whole country and I spent a few days in Jerusalem. I remember when I went to the Western Wall and had to have my shoulders and knees covered (the men didn't have to have anything covered, they could dress however they wanted). But none of the Israelis that I met on the trip (and I met and became friends with many) would ever condone this kind of behavior. I think it's sad when religion is taken to such an extreme as this...and it happens in any religion.

Wow, disturbing and horrifying.

How can they not see that attacking women hurts communities much more than "immodesty"?

Oh great. Because we totally need a Purty Patrol out there.

Maybe it was Palin's idea.

lol @ Dani's comment

This has been a big problem in Israel for awhile, and it's getting worse. Last year five haredi men beat up a woman and an IDF soldier who sat next to each other on a bus because there were no other seats, and then they beat up the police who responded. What's going on in Israel between the ultra-Orthodox and secular Jews is kind of complicated but it's really not good, and what's particularly problematic from an American perspective is that the politics around Israel are so insane that there's really no way that we can get our government to pressure Israel to do something about this.

In the meantime, the same Christian extremists in the US who offer the treatment of women in ultraconservative Muslim communities as a reason to hate Islam are very supportive of the ultra-Orthodox in Israel even though those ultra-Orthodox treat women like crap, are having huge families that they can't afford to feed and are relying on welfare to survive, and are exempting themselves from mandatory military service under religious exemptions, etc.

This situation is extremely frustrating. There's an upcoming series of presidential forums in synagogues around the US being sponsored by the Israel Forum and those should be interesting if you have an opportunity to attend (http://www.theisraelproject.org/). Both major party candidates have said some incredibly dumbassed things about Israel.

I don't think this is limited to grown women, either: A family friend who's Israeli and now in her 50s recalls having rocks thrown at her when, as a secular kid in Jerusalem, she'd ride her bike through Orthodox neighborhoods on Saturday.

Bah, normally the Jewish are the SANE ones...

My sister went to Brandeis and worked in a kosher restaurant, but isn't Jewish. She noted an interesting feature among the Jewish people she interacted with, including many ultra-Orthodox ones. Specifically, she noted that none of them cared one whit what she did-- she could wear whatever, say whatever, eat whatever, and it didn't offend them unless she did something that forced them to violate their own rules themselves, like put ham in their sandwich or touch a man's hand giving him his change. And even then they tried their damnedest not to make her go out of her way to accommodate them-- she was not Jewish, so she couldn't be expected to know all the rules, so it was THEIR responsibility to make sure they lived righteously.

But to her coworkers and friends who were Jewish, it was a different matter. Orthodox Jews are MEAN to Reform Jews. They are very critical, consider them terrible sinners, and basically treat the Reform Jews much the same way that Christians treat non-Christians. I think that's why non-Jewish people don't think of this sort of thing happening with Jewish populations, because it won't happen to them personally, only to other Jews. I also think that it was sort of inevitable that this would happen in Israel, simply because of the large concentrations of Jewish people from different levels of orthodoxy.

That said, I hope the government stamps this out as quickly as possible, and encourages people who are that orthodox to build their own communities outside of the cities.

Brianna, there are a lot of different kinds of Orthodox Jews, and mostly it's all internal to Judaism except to the extent that Orthodoxy is used as the basis for civil law in Israel (for fun, do some research on what's been happening with marriages by converts in Israel). I personally don't know any Orthodox Jews who are "mean" to Reform Jews (most of my family is Orthodox or what's now being called "Conservadox") but there are some issues about who recognizes what that don't have to do with mean or not mean but with the interpretation of law. I wouldn't generalize.

As for building their own communities, that's pretty hinky too, since it's largely observant Orthodox who are building settlements in the West Bank and who had to be pried at gunpoint out of Gaza. On balance I'd rather these assholes be creating problems for other Jews than stealing from Palestinians.

I studied in Jerusalem for spring semester my junior year of college. While there, ultra-orthodox leaders were in talks with El-Al, Israel's main airline, to offer male-only flights. I had female classmates who boarded public city buses and were promptly asked to sit in the back of the bus with the other women. It's so frustrating to watch people of my religion act so irrationally (I imagine Christians get the same feeling hearing about Fred Phelps). I think "modesty patrols" sexually objectify women as much as any other secular media, they just go about it in a different way. If anyone is interested, there is a play by Israeli-American writer Naomi Regan called "Women's Minyan" that tackles a lot of these issues. It examines why the ultra-orthodox community is like this and why women of the community put up with it, yet also that there is plenty of support within Jewish law and literature that women don't have to be submissive and subjugated.

llevinso, I second your experiences. I was also in Israel recently, and all the people I met were absolutely lovely and not approving of this kind of thing. There were Orthodox Jews and Hasidim and everything in all the secular neighborhoods, and I can't imagine them doing or condoning anything like this. That said, when I wanted to see Mea Shearim (a super-Orthodox neighborhood in Jerusalem, for those who don't know), I decided to drive through it rather than walk through it. I was afraid I would break some rule I didn't know about and get stoned. (Also, I'd add that the men at the Wailing Wall do have to cover their heads.)

I know that an entire religion or an entire country can't be held accountable for what their extremists do (after all, I hate when people think all Americans are like *our* crazies), but it does really bother me that there's probably not a whole lot we can do about this. Anytime anyone criticizes Israel or Israelis on any situation, there's an immediate "You're siding with terrorists!" response. Merely disagreeing with policies does not necessarily make one anti-Semitic. This goes back to that whole idea of whether or not we can try to end misogynist practices while still deferring to the cultural practices of others, and often we cannot but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it.

Lauren, yes the men have to wear yarmulkes or something else on their heads but not out of modesty as is my understanding. Women must cover their shoulders and knees because for some reason it is offensive for us to be running around in a holy place with exposed kneecaps while mens kneecaps can run free! I say this in jest but I truly don't get it. Also the women and men are not allowed to approach the Western Wall together. They have separate sides of the Wall and the men's side is much much bigger. It is true that at the moment they are expanding the area so the women have more room, but it was very disheartening the first time I saw the difference. My Jewish family has always been so loving, so beautiful to people of all races, sexes, identities, what have you, and then to see such a gender divide in Jerusalem saddened me greatly.

Proof that woman hating isn't confined to only those religions unpopular at the time.

I've always had problems with the sexism in Orthodox Judaism. One of the most humiliating experiences of my life was going to a friend's bar mitzvah at his Modern Orthodox shul and having to sit in the back behind a glass wall.

But at least Modern Orthodox, and for that matter, the vast majority of Ultra Orthodox and Hassidic sects are nonviolent. It's pretty terrifying when a group belonging to one of the most universally oppressed religions in history can find it in them to oppress their own simply because of their sex.

The Orthodox community in Israel scares the shit outta me...

Brianna G -

Would you explain what you meant by this comment: "Bah, normally the Jewish are the SANE ones..."

Given that when Americans hear about Israel, they typically think about Israel/Palestine (or Jewish/Muslim), I'm concerned that it appears like you're saying Muslims aren't sane. Could you clarify?

Re: Brianna
As a Reform Jew, I'm uncomfortable generalizing Orthodox Jews as mean to Reform Jews. I was raised Reform but attended Jewish Day Schools with many Orthodox families, and the majority of my experiences were of attempts by Jews of all denominations to try to get along. For every time I've felt oppressed by an Orthodox person (on issues of my sexual ethics, for example), I've also witnessed mean attitudes from Reform to Orthodox people--often in the form of a patronizing incredulity ("how can they believe that shit? their women are soooo submissive").

It saddens me to see these terrifying "modesty patrols," but I believe that crazy people will twist any religious text to suit their crazy desires. These men are FAR RIGHT WING criminals and should not be lumped with almost any other "Orthodox Jews."

I agree, I don't think it's right to conflate the ultra-orthodox at issue in this article with the rest of the Orthodox movement.

All religions have their violent crazies, and that's really a product of the individuals who take up violent and hateful beliefs, not the religion itself -- regardless of which religion we're talking about.

The ultra-orthodoxy in Israel is definitely an issue in regard to feminism, and there's no doubt that some serious work needs to be done to assure that even those who hold these beliefs aren't able to try to enforce them in their areas through violence.

However, conflating Orthodox Judaism with the ultra-orthodox sects in parts of Israel is downright false. While Orthodox Judaism has its principles of gender segregation they are basically never violent.

I like PZ Meyers' response to this issue. These purity people tend to worry that all these "unchaste" women will arouse them, so he said that someone should invent a device that measures a man's bonerocity (My own scientific term) and if he gets too aroused a whole bunch of lights will start to flash on a hat that he wears. Then we can know who's having immodest thoughts.

@ Lauren

Men do have to cover their head, but try wearing a yarmulke as a woman at the Wailiing Wall and not getting harrassed by the ultra-Orthodox. No, not all the Orthodox. Just the most vocal and public sect of them, the sect of Orthodoxy that's given mostly free reign around Israel.

wow, this is certainly disconcerting. isn't there anywhere in the world that isn't trying to repress women's individuality by branding any attempt to stand out as "immodest"? well... i suppose the united states isn't doing this, but they are repressing women's individuality by making them wear nothing. both of these extremes are very dangerous... kind of like leaving the house in the morning and realizing that the book you're carrying is using your husbands credit card as a bookmark. yikes. lets just hope that israel and america are smart enough to put that credit card safely away in their purses before some FBI officer with the ID number shj916 catches them and thinks its identity theft and tries to put them in jail under for breaching moral code "jung77." Hopefully they won't get caught, and instead of losing their credit card, they'll finally be able to use their macbook again!

I am a reform/conservative Jew, and my shul has received nasty comments from the ultra-orthodoxy in my hometown, saying that reform Jews are the worst sinners and that they caused the Shoah (Jewish holocaust). My Rabbi also gave a speech about how some ultra conservative sects of Judaism in Israel hate reform Jews and occasionally harass them.

It makes me sad that a country founded as a place for all Jews to be free may become a place where only half the Jews can be free.

I was lucky and blessed enough to study for three years in Israel, one year learning Hebrew on an Orthodox kibbutz, the other two in Jerusalem at the Conservative Yeshiva. (Currently the only co-educational yeshiva in the world, although more are coming! Exciting stuff!) My time there was often a depressing crash course in the impunity with which Orthodoxy, and increasingly fringe, Right-Wing Orthodoxy, controls religious life in Israel. This extends from fairly subtle religious matters of Kosher food and liturgical matters, to the far more painful, sensitive issues of Conversions and the attitude towards Jewish women. The Chief Rabbinate seems to increasingly to rule from a place of ridiculous hypotheticals and pure theory of Religious Law, ignoring the age-old rabbinical practice of being in touch with the community. They don't seem to notice the damage and pain their policies cause, how they freeze out non-religious Jews from ever taking an interest in practices that seem too onerous and strange, how they ignore 50% of the religious population's full ability to engage in Torah (Torah in the wider sense of Jewish learning here; Women in the ultra-Orthodox community learn the actual Torah, the Five Books of Moses, but are prohibited from other texts, namely the Talmud) and allow the other 50% to rule over the first, spiritually damaging the women by leaving them feeling exposed, threatened and powerless, and the men by corrupting them with a lack of value and respect for the women in their lives. I did find many Orthodox people dismayed and concerned at the extent to which the religious life of the country was swinging right; I found about as many taking part in that trend. Professor Alice Shalvi, a noted Anglo-Israeli feminist who has been in the country since its pre-Statehood days, once identified the entire Office of the Chief Rabbinate, the government's office of religious affairs, and the lack of freedom of religion it represented, as one of the main obstacles to Feminism in the country. She, nor I, nor anyone I've met yet, seem to have a true grip on how best to handle this growing problem. Perhaps the atrocious behavior this article describes will finally lead to the secular arm of the government to take action and begin to curb such things. Maybe Professor Shalvi's fond hope will come true, and there will be a tremendous influx of North American Jewry who she believes won't put up with this shit. I wish I knew. For myself, incidents like these always strengthen my personal resolve to make safe places in Judaism for every Jew to explore and embrace the traditions, and as a Jew in passionate love with the prayers, texts and customs of a religious Jewish life, I hope I will be able to one day, as an educator, share those passions with Jews of all sexes, genders, races, nationalities, and individual beliefs.

To all of you, Jew and Gentile, may it be a Shana Tovah u'Metuka u'Mvracha, a Good, Sweet, Blessed Year, and g'mar hatimah tovah, may you be inscribed in the Book of Life for good.

Mordebye now!

Unfourtunately, there are misguided people who act contrary to religous law in order to spread it. And then they wonder why more people aren't religous which of course angers them. There are two options: either explain the law or custom (these are two different things) or don't look. The religous people I have met and the teachers I have had have been very clear about the importance of the partnership between men and women. For example, Abraham was nothing without Sarah. And they are not unique in this regard. Anyone who forgets this will act badly.