i was very proud of him and touched by some of his comments tonight at the debate.

Biden is a real class act, unlike Pfailin and McStain.

OBAMA/BIDEN 08

I admit I don't know much about Sen. Biden, but that really touched my heart.

I thought Biden did very well in this debate, and I think this moment in particular was really beneficial for him. It also goes to show that Palin has absolutely nothing to offer that Obama/Biden don't also have. She can proclaim her mom status as much as she wants, but her situation isn't anything like that of average American mothers, and I think that Biden's experiences as a single parent following his wife's death give him just as much claim to facing the hardships of raising a family as Palin's.

It still bothers me how many people can't see that Palin is so incredibly WRONG for this job. She avoided just about every question in this debate, and chastised Biden for looking to the past to try and predict the future. Her past is just about non-existent on the political front, and McCain's is abysmal in supporting everything BUT change. No wonder they don't want you to pay attention to their records (or lack thereof). Pay not attention to the candidate behind the curtain.

That made me choke up a little, too, watching it.

I think its easy to say Biden did a better job than Palin, simply because I agree more with him on the issues.

I will say that this emotional outburst is only something a man can get kudos for. Could you imagine if Palin had done the same? The press and even yes liberal men would smear her for it. I mean Hillary didn't even shed one single tear and Bill Maher called it crying. Also, Palin has been attacked for being a mom. There have been suggestions that she wouldn't be able to sacrifice her family for the country and that that somehow was against her. However, Biden's story at the Democratic convention was about his family tragedy and how he almost didn't become a senator because family came first. Could you imagine if Clinton or Palin had said something like that?

Anyway, its amazing how nothing changes. Women are still held back when it comes to family where men are praised for it. So much for a new wave of feminism.

Orange_Orange, you're probably right that Palin would've been slammed if she'd displayed her emotions. I think that double-standard is obviously wrong.

What I take issue with is not that Palin brings up her family. It's that Palin trots her family out as something giving her credibility among average Americans, while promoting and supporting policies that are decidedly anti-family and anti-woman. It's very similar to how McCain loves to play the POW card, only to advocate policies that are anti-veteran and anti-American.

If Palin had an emotional moment about her family, and it was something I felt was genuine, I would have no problem with it, though I likely wouldn't score any points with me due to her policies. Whether or not the mainstream media would pounce on her for it is a different issue, and I don't think we are the ones who would be supporting that double-standard.

I also don't think anyone has felt that feminism was "done". It seems to me that it's a perpetual process, so I don't really understand how some people being idiots is reason enough to dismiss new progress on the feminism front.

For all of Joe's shortcomings (which I admit aren't that numerous) I still feel that he is a great role model for young men. I think he constantly strikes a welcome balance between the stoic, serious working man and the effusive, loving father; And none of this seems disingenuous. The mere fact that he openly states, "I love (insert man's name here)" in the public sphere, when referring to a colleague or other whom he deeply respects and, well, loves, provides a great example of how a man need not fear showing emotion, passion and genuine compassion. Tears welled in my eyes at this moment and I absolutely loved the line, "This notion that just because I am a man I do not know about raising two children as a single parent ..." I get the feeling that Biden connects with mothers, and in turn they empathize with him, more closely than Palin does. You have a man being sworn into office while sitting next to his sons' hospital beds being compared to a woman who returns to work three days after giving birth to a child with downs syndrome. I harp on about these points because I am a big believer in character. More often than not, I believe that watching a debate on mute gives you the most honest view of who is ultimately decided the victor. You can see the lies in McCain's and Palin's eyes if you pay attention not to what is said but the person behind the political platitudes and rhetoric. Biden and Obama are good people.

To me the decisive factor in that moment was not just Biden's choking up... if you've seen enough of his speeches, you know that he is one of our more emotional politicians.

The key was Palin's response. You can hardly imagine she was paying any attention to Biden. Following the only moment in the debate that evoked any real emotion, she leaps, bright-eyed and smile-plastered, into a bland talking point about McCain and herself as "mavericks."

Orange_Orange:

Don't you think that an important step in combatting sexism and gender roles is men who will step forward, be emotional, and show actual paternal love instead of paternalistic, "I know what's good for you" condescension?

Addressing Orange_Orange and jamesneysmith

[Firstly to Orange_Orange]

I do agree with you that Palin has been attacked as a mom, but I think that she mostly overcame those attacks. The attacks just paled in comparison to the way her "average American woman" position gives her rhetorical strength. I would not vote for her, but I would say that she has used her family and her family values to an amazing rhetorical advantage.

I don't understand where your cynicism comes from. It is true that the way that Biden can speak openly and emotionally about his family troubles cannot be performed by Hillary Clinton and Palin to their political advantage, but I think we've come a long way in this campaign. I think Biden breaks the gender mold of the unemotional man, and Clinton and Palin breaks the mold of the unprofessional woman. Just because Biden can be emotional now doesn't mean that the future Clintons and Palins will not be allowed to be emotional to their political advantage in the future. Cultural gender barriers aren't breaking down in my ideal speed, but they are sure as heck breaking down.

[Secondly to jamesneysmith]
You are correct about watching the debate on mute and just being able to read who is honest. I agree that on a personal level, I prefer Biden's character more, and he seems to be more genuine with the connection between his principles and his policies. I think Palin's heart is in the right place, but they connect to the worst domestic policies I've ever seen. So let's get that straight, we agree about whose character we prefer.

What I find slightly problematic though is your example of Biden being sworn in on his son's bedside, and Palin going back to work after giving birth to a child with downs syndrome. This connects to my response to Orange_Orange. People are breaking down cultural gender barriers in this campaign. Biden is breaking down the unemotional male mold, and Clinton and Palin are breaking down the unprofessional female mold. The question I have for you is, do you think you are subconsciously applying a double standard to Palin? I don't know whether I misunderstand your point with your example, or I am putting too much of my values into my interpretation of it. The way I see it is, both Biden and Palin care about their family and yet a lot of their time is dedicated to serving the country. I don't think I can judge a person's ability to sacrifice work for family (or the other way around) and accurately extrapolate their moral standing from that.

Personally, I love Sarah's reaction to Joe's emotion. Oh wait, there wasn't a reaction. She just smiled and said "maverick."

I tend to be a little cynical. Both Gore and Bush pushed out tears in 2000 (both for Oprah if I recall). But I think Biden is a good man, and not so crass. I give him the benefit of the doubt, I call it genuine.

@Cieno Crisis: The point I saw from the comparisons of the swearing in at the son's bed versus going back to work is that Biden seems to have been able to do what few others (male or female) have. He seems to have managed his family and career fairly well without a lot of criticism. Palin going back to work 3 days after giving birth seems almost the opposite extreme from expecations for women, but I'm not sure that's good. It's almost as if her children have become her props - here's the one in the military, here's the one who's pregnant and not getting an abortion, here's the one with special needs. They're used by the campaign to try to relate her to other mothers.

Now, I did go back to work immediately after the births of both of my children, but for some reason I'm struggling with the image of Palin having done it. And I think that's it - I struggle with the image, not the reality.

I went into trauma in labor with my son, and he was not breathing when he was born. He was born Monday, and I worked Friday. The difference, I think, is that I work from a home office. I'm a freelance writer.

I cannot imagine going back to her job so shortly after giving birth. I think though the image they're portraying is one in which Mom can devote herself to both family and career, but it somehow comes across as cold. Last night, when she handed Trig to Piper, who's 6 or 7, to go talk to Gwen, I found that odd. I would've carried my babe with me. It was almost, "okay, I held him for 30 seconds. Moving on."

I doubt she's really like that with her children. I think the problem is that she's unsure of how to present herself as mom and politician, and it's a battle male politicians can *choose* to fight (as Biden has) but aren't obligated to do.

I choked up, too, when I watched Biden talk about his children. You can't rehearse that kind of emotion; it comes from the heart.

And I wondered to my husband how they kept baby Trig quiet throughout the debate. He could have been in another room, but daughter Bristol who was holding him made a rather quick appearance on stage after the debate's end. Did they give him cough syrup or what?

I didn't know about Biden's family history, and I got pretty choked too watching this part of the debate.

I do agree that there's a huge double-standard when it comes to men crying or getting choked up, but that doesn't minimize how real Biden is and how he has channeled the emotion from his family tragedies into good for the American people. That's something that Palin cannot say. She can't say that she understands the plight of teen moms, even though her daughter is about to become one, because she cut funding for teen moms. She can't say that she understands how women with complicated pregnancies feel, even though Palin has experienced that, because she wants to take away reproductive choice in almost every circumstance. She has no empathy. Biden does.

1. Though I, like Paul and perhaps Orang_Orange, am cynical, I'll allow that at that particular moment in the midst of a nationally televised debate, Biden stepped "out" of that moment at the podium and remembered exactly what it felt like to be at his loved ones' funerals.

2. Orange_Orange on the annoying and persistent double standard (sigh--the eternally persistent one, as long as women are the baby-carriers): Yup. Which brings me to...

3. Brandi, I respect your transparency and your sharing of your own parent-story. And I do recognize that you are questioning your own reactions to Palin-as-mother, and thinking critically, and that this sentence---"I doubt she's really like that with her children"--reinforces that.

But this bit: "Last night, when she handed Trig to Piper, who's 6 or 7, to go talk to Gwen, I found that odd. I would've carried my babe with me. It was almost, 'okay, I held him for 30 seconds. Moving on.' "

This bit depresses me.

Rachel asked:

And I wondered to my husband how they kept baby Trig quiet throughout the debate. He could have been in another room, but daughter Bristol who was holding him made a rather quick appearance on stage after the debate's end. Did they give him cough syrup or what?

I also wanted to agree with the person who said that the really striking part of this video clip is Palin's response, and it really highlights what, for me, was her weakness last night. She was entirely scripted. There was a point during the question about nuclear weapons where she said her two sentences on nukes and then said "Is it okay if I talk about Afghanistan?" And, given permission, launched into her scripted bit about Afghanistan which had marginally (if anything) to do with nuke-u-lar nuclear weapons. Joe Biden gives this very heartfelt look into his life experience and she doesn't even acknowledge it, she launches into the script piece about change, which includes the most egregious oxymoron of all time: consummate maverick.

My other realization watching this clip is that Biden can put a name to significant, changemaking legislation that he was a major part of. VAWA, 100,000 cops, etc. McCain can't do that, Palin isn't scripted to be able to do that. She (and he) talk about change as this nebulous thing that they can make happen because they're mavericks, but they don't have the paper to back it up. McCain's legislative record doesn't back it up. His voting record doesn't back it up. I wish that Obama, Biden and their media surrogates would start driving that point home. You can't call yourself an agent of change without the proof. They don't have the proof.

I'm amazed that people think that Biden manufactured that emotion. His wife and daughter were killed in a car accident, and his two other children were seriously injured. He was 29 when it happened. I mean damn, what a freaking tragedy. Really? You don't think that would cause someone to become choked up?

And yes, I think it was a perfectly valid point to bring up. She was going overboard with the folksy shit and calling herself Joe Sixpack, and making it seem as if only SHE had ever worried about money, or her kids' health. He perfect grounds to point out that he had been a single parent and that men worry about their kids too, and that his family didn't have much money growing up, and I'm glad he did.

I'm amazed that people think that Biden manufactured that emotion. His wife and daughter were killed in a car accident, and his two other children were seriously injured. He was 29 when it happened. I mean damn, what a freaking tragedy. Really? You don't think that would cause someone to become choked up?

And yes, I think it was a perfectly valid point to bring up. She was going overboard with the folksy shit and calling herself Joe Sixpack, and making it seem as if only SHE had ever worried about money, or her kids' health. He perfect grounds to point out that he had been a single parent and that men worry about their kids too, and that his family didn't have much money growing up, and I'm glad he did.