I wasn't aware neither of them weren't familiar with the details of the proposed economic plan! :/

Jim Lehrer sounds like a marriage counselor. "don't Tell me, Tell him how that make you feel."

I love Jim Lehrer.

Who cares about earmarks? McCain needs to find a new horse to beat.

Why is McCain smirking so much when Obama talks? lol!

This debate is more like a snow ball fight!

Yeah, McCain is basically saying the same things over and over again. Also, when he smiles...I think a kitten dies somewhere.

P.s: Is it just me, or does McCain have bad teeth? If he did have bad teeth, maybe one would be more inclined to get better health/dental coverage...

We get it McCain! You want to cut spending. Talk about something else, please.

McCain just said, "the liberal combat ship..." LOL...

Damn good moderator. He's making them answer the question.

He has bad teeth because he gets that damn socialized healthcare that everyone in the Senate gets! In all seriousness, he's 70-something years old. It happens.

Anyway, McCain is shaking like a leaf, isn't he? Obama is much more confident.

McCain will veto every spending bill? Hahaha... "Read my lips, no new taxes!"

VioletMoore, I thought the exact same thing!

I love the way Obama jumps on every question to answer first. McCain is reacting instead of acting.

ah hah! So he wants people to have 'choice' over their health care options?? Hmmm, ironic considering his position on abortion. Can we say 'hypocritical'??!

Take a shot every time McCain *he-he-he*'s...with his grin...and you don't know why

AnUnfunnyFeminist:

Like you said, he's 70 something years old. I think the age is making him shake! Haha!

SINCE WHEN DID HE GO ON THE ENVIROMENTAL BANDWAGON!?

Do I seem to remember McCain saying "Because fish like hanging around oil rigs." http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/18/mccain-fish-oil/

And the families? He considers families as Mom, Dad, two kids (Jill and Bill) and a dog. Um, 80% of America ain't (YES I SAID AIN'T) falling under that category.

And Jessica, text message Vanessa ASAP! SHIELD THE KITTEN!

I really hope McCain doesn't intend to "freeze" spending on my education and education of fellow children of the working middle class.

orgy of spending!! hahaha. Jessica, you beat me to it.

@ Jessica - "orgy of spending..." thats hilarious, lol!!!

How many times is McCain going to say he wasn't voted Miss Congeniality? Dude, we know you're a bitter old shitheel.

I am a liberal Democrat (not a troll, I swear), but I have to admit that McCain is sounding much sharper than I expected. Not at all like a guy 12 hours from the grave. I wonder how much of the previous PR was strategizing....

Then again, he just used the "Miss Congeniality" line for the second time in 10 minutes.

Am I the only one completely confused by McCain's Iraq answer? What did he say???

@ Violet Moore - I know I heard him say that "Miss Congeniality" and I am wondering the same thing???

John McCain wants to build 45 nuclear power plants? Mostly in poor and minority areas, I'm guessing. He's makes me yell at the TV.

Does anyone else make finger-snapping motion every time Obama sets the record straight when McCain exaggerates/outright lies? I know I do.

What IS the Difference between a tactic and a strategy?

"4th's of July ago"????? seriously????

I thought it was the Senate's decision what we do with the military (i.e go to war).

Caitlin -- three snaps up in a Z formation.

John McCain wants to build 45 nuclear power plants? Mostly in poor and minority areas, I'm guessing. He's makes me yell at the TV.

Does anyone else make finger-snapping motions every time Obama sets the record straight when McCain exaggerates/outright lies? I know I do.

The propaganda my god the propaganda

Has anyone else noticed that McCain is a little um, off? Obama is making him look like an amateur...

Please don't freeze spending on education. I sat in the schools in my district as they disintegrated over the past five years and now I get to watch my brother sit in the same district as it continues to disintegrate.

LAWL! McCain just got RICKROLLED! www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSsJ19sy3JI

McCain will veto every spending bill? Hahaha... "Read my lips, no new taxes!"
Posted by Violet Moore Author Profile Page | September 26, 2008 9:34 PM

Papa Bush won that election.

What IS the Difference between a tactic and a strategy?
Posted by Edgy1004 Author Profile Page | September 26, 2008 9:46 PM

Strategy is the plan to win the war. Tactics are the plans to win the battle.

"Iraq... is a strategic mistake." OH NO BARACK JUST BROKE THE POPULAR-METER ON CNN

Why does Obama keep calling them the Taleban like an elitist? This is America, we pronounce it Taliban.

does anyone know what was up with the ear-marking mccain was accusing obama of towards the beginning? i was a little disappointed that obama avoided the accusation and didn't explain what mccain was going on about

does anyone know what was up with the ear-marking mccain was accusing obama of towards the beginning? i was a little disappointed that obama avoided the accusation and didn't explain what mccain was going on about

When Obama looked right at the camera, I think I went even more gay for him.

I know, I have a serious crush on Obama. I think he sneezes hope for Goddess' sake.

Is it just me or does McCain have a crush on Betray-us?

I love that McCain wants to freeze spending on education, infrastructure, etc, while DoD gets a blank check.

Yeah - finally - sung songs about bombing Iran - get him on his hypocrisy!

Is it just me or does McCain have a crush on Betray-us?
Posted by Dani (Male Feminist) Author Profile Page | September 26, 2008 9:55 PM

All Republicans do, he's their savior.

aleks: No offense, but that is mildly racist/ethnicist. He was raised with a Muslim father, so he has probably grown up with hearing proper pronounciation of certain terms. -I- still call women who are named Maria with a rolled r, not out of some 'elitest' ideal, but because it's -habit-. I am ESL. So sue me.

Melissa,

I checked the website that McCain referred to, I couldn't find the report that he was talking about. If anyone else can. Please let me know.

Oh, no, here come the folksy stories....RUN AWAY!

aleks: No offense, but that is mildly racist/ethnicist. He was raised with a Muslim father, so he has probably grown up with hearing proper pronounciation of certain terms. -I- still call women who are named Maria with a rolled r, not out of some 'elitest' ideal, but because it's -habit-. I am ESL. So sue me.
Posted by Dani (Male Feminist) Author Profile Page | September 26, 2008 9:58 PM

I thought the sarcasm was unbelievably clear.

Ohhhh! A bracelet-off!

"A war that I was in. And we had an army."

Dude, wars involved armies? who knew...
and what's with the bracelet war?

Define success if you're going to talk in terms of victory and defeat. What are our goals in Iraq? And you better make damn sure next time that we're going into a war for a reason.

Finally, the Really Big Hammer is out...

Oh! Okay, sorry Aleks. I really did not see the sarcasm intended. I guess with the minor troll war, I was like, "ohhh lord." Sorry again :)

Did the Moderator just roll his eyes?

Define success if you're going to talk in terms of victory and defeat. What are our goals in Iraq? And you better make damn sure next time that we're going into a war for a reason.
Posted by Habladora

We've been trying to get an answer on that one for 5 and a half years.

McCain isn't talking to Obama. He keeps saying well Senator Obama says this or that. Obama is actually talking to McCain, Like Jim Lehrer told him to.

Sorry about that Aleks! I didn't see the sarcasm. With the latest trolling, I was a little on the guarded side. Again, my apologies! :)

BRACELET OFF.

I think McCain, to avoid answering a question, tries to pull at heart strings with these lame stories.

I pray to whoever is up there that he doesn't go into a POW story.

@ Megs
He did. So did I. Who wouldn't with the candidates talking about jewelry instead of Iraq?

this debate is great

I'm like a half hour behind because my brother keeps pausing the TV to yell at McCain. But what the hell was McCain talking about with this Boeing/DOD boat thing? I have no idea what McCain is talking about most of the time.

And his s's annoy me. Fwee, fwee! He's like that gopher from Winnie the Pooh.

McCain has no problem with twisting the truth. I'm not saying Obama should do the same, but I feel like McCain is getting away with half-truths. Can we just ask if he means to lie and misrepresent Obama's positions?

Dani,
That's ok. For future reference, when I say "elitist" it's not with a sneer but with a snicker.

Oh my goodness, Obama finally pointed out that we made Iran so much more powerful by invading Iraq. Finally, finally, finally.

mccain says we will never have another Holocaust... then what the fuck are you going to about Darfur? ass.

McCain refuses to look Obama in the eye when Obama is talking to him - it makes McCain look so uncomfortable and like he knows he's lying. Face your opposition, coward!

I love the Audience Reaction meter on CNN. The blue line NEVER goes up when McCain talks, but all lines go up when Obama speaks.

New game. Talk a shot when McCain mentions Reagan or mispronounces a foreign word!

OMG. McCain nearly coughed up a lung trying to pronounce Ahmadinejad's name! Or atleast, his eyes as they bulged.

Um, meeting with Iran without precondition is called diplomacy. You can't do the SILENT TREATMENT, McCain. When people don't like you, they don't -want- to talk to you anyway.

mccain looks like a pompous ass when he sits there and smirks the entire time obama is speaking... so rude!

I got one thing to say:

Fsck Kissinger.

He is so damn patronizing to Obama! 'what Senator Obama doesn't understand is...' puke

I'm trying to decide if McCain's ageist, or just smug. He keeps talking down at Obama, rather than talking to him.

Also, what's with the comment on Korean height? I don't see what mental/emotional repression has to do with physical build.

Like we give a damn what the mass-murdering Kissinger has to say!

It could just be me but everytime McCain talks I'm just unendated with all this let me see how many words I can say that will create negative connotations.

It is like he is basically twisting the truth and making accusations and rambling on and not really addressing the issue from his POV, but he's pointing out with erroneous allegations and evidence Obama's wrong stance on the question...

McCain, like most republicans, is naturally a smug bastard.

Obama - don't back paddle when you're winning! Don't get bogged down in McCain's little distraction tactics (strategies?).

distraction tactics (strategies?)

lulz

I'm glad RebeccaC also noticed that height comment

Oh. My. God. No, Russia was not in the right in their actions in Georgia. Definitely not. But Georgia's actions in their separatist regions have not exactly been all hugs and puppies.

I feel the same way Jessica. The audience meter went WAY down on that one. McCain didn't make any friends there.

nayevetay. Sounds Hebrew.
Is McCain a closet Jew? If so, I may have to convert...
By the way Mr. McDumbass, Georgia made some serious mistakes too. Saakashvili (sp?) is no saint.

Going back to the cold war?
Look around McCain, we are there...

Both sides (russia/georgia) are guilty of human rights abuses.

So Putin had K-G-B *tattooed* in his eye whites?

Kidding, kidding... McCain hasn't talked much about how he's going to deal directly with Russia. Not putting his main points first confuses and bores people... didn't he learn to put the thesis statement first when he was in school? That way, if the time cuts off, at least he's said where he stands.

Also, what's with the comment on Korean height?
Posted by Rebecca C Author Profile Page | September 26, 2008 10:15 PM

He's REALLY out of touch. I spent the last year in Korea, they are no longer a short nation.

I feel the same way Jessica. The audience meter went WAY down on that one. McCain didn't make any friends there.

Y'know if you go by the debate meter on CNN, McCain is getting pwned.

Someone needs to publish an encyclopedia, "Foreign words McCain garbles beyond comprehension"; free copies passed out at every debate! I know I'll need it.

Y'know if you go by the debate meter on CNN, McCain is getting pwned.

I'm waiting to hear that Palin can see Russia from her house.

Excuse me, McCain, but I'd like the president to have the courage to GO TO dangerous situations. Because if he/she can send off a bajillion peoples' sons and daughters, HE CAN GO TOO.

Is McCain ignoring the moderator on purpose or is he just that much of a smug jackass...

Someone needs to publish an encyclopedia, "Foreign words McCain garbles beyond comprehension"; free copies passed out at every debate! I know I'll need it.

McCain is trying to cover his inability to make a decent argument by being incredibly condescending. Has anyone been keeping track of the number of times he has said, "Senator Obama just doesn't understand"?

he keeps talking about experience, but I'm not sure experience at being a raving lunatic and an utter moron counts for much.

Where is this debate meter? I must see!

Seriously! I don't know how Obama is restraining himself from punching McCain in the face. If someone kept telling me I "don't understand," I would be a lot less forgiving.

Seriously! I don't know how Obama is restraining himself from punching McCain in the face. If someone kept telling me I "don't understand," I would be a lot less forgiving.
Posted by Amy Author Profile Page | September 26, 2008 10:36 PM

Beyond Obama's generally chill personality, I think he decided at the beginning of the campaign never to look angry. Even one show of tempter and the "angry black man" stereotype would hurt him badly.

I love how McCain looks frazzled and flustered with every answer, like he knows he's up shit creek, but Obama just never loses his cool. Maybe it's his inner lawyer coming through, but the man just lets the stupid little digs roll of him and comes back with a jab-cross-jab of facts and actual answers.

(probably more effective than the literal jab-cross-jab that's tempting me every time McCain speaks)

I love how McCain looks frazzled and flustered with every answer, like he knows he's up shit creek, but Obama just never loses his cool. Maybe it's his inner lawyer coming through, but the man just lets the stupid little digs roll of him and comes back with a jab-cross-jab of facts and actual answers.

(probably more effective than the literal jab-cross-jab that's tempting me every time McCain speaks)

I'm like a half hour behind because my brother keeps pausing the TV to yell at McCain. But what the hell was McCain talking about with this Boeing/DOD boat thing? I have no idea what McCain is talking about most of the time.

UnfunnyFeminist: I am hours behind everyone else on this thread, because I got home late and sat here and watched the whole debate on youtube. But because I live in Seattle, home of Boeing, I know that this is referring to a recent DoD contract for some schmancy new refueling plane... Instead of just handing the contract to Boeing, the DoD wound up giving the contract to EADS, the company that owns Airbus. There's all kind of bickering back and forth about the contract negotiations, and there's appeals being filed... blah blah blah. It's just a bunch of Appropriations committee bullshit. i don't really know why he brought it up...

ha! they didnt even have palin comment. there is going to be such a stomping in the Veep debate.

i see her stepping down shortly before or after.

mccain says we will never have another Holocaust... then what the fuck are you going to about Darfur? ass.
Posted by SereniT03 Author Profile Page | September 26, 2008 10:09 PM

That's exactly what I thought when he said that. 'Cause you know... when white people are being mass murdered - THAT'S just unacceptable!

Wow, Obama is so... calm. He waits. And plots.

I loved how when McCain said that he had the "most liberal voting record," Obama smiled. Uh, what kind of insult is that? XD

(I'm straight, so could some lesbian please click that troll's link and tell me if her mind is indeed raped?)

McCain's Subtle Racism
[From my blog http://womanrebel.blogspot.com]
I watched the debate last night.

[As a disclaimer I should state for the record that I am white and an old lesbian with lots of 1960s movement experience.]

Within the movements of the 1960s when white men were involved their voices were generally given the most weight. They have a tendency to come from a position of white male privilege, a world view where anything a white man says should be taken as wiser and more serious than anything any woman or man of color has to offer on any position.

One of the techniques for asserting this dominance is the technique of talking over the other person in a louder manner designed to irritate and suppress. As a feminist who was involved in SDS during the 1960s I may be especially sensitive to this but it seemed to me that John McCain did this repeatedly.

It isn't necessary to use the n-word or to call an African-American man, boy to assert this sort of dominance. I am fairly certain that if one were to look at some of the more ultra right wing conservative blog and their respondents one will find references to and crowing regarding how McCain put Obama in his place.

And that is just the point of both racism and misogyny, to keep people in "their places".

(My partner also noticed this. We are both old enough to have lived through the blatant Jim Crow years and are sensitive to the more nuanced version that exists today.)

While I do feel Obama presented himself better, I must say that watching the crowd meter has caused me to become a little discouraged about the way our elections are determined.

Whenever Obama said something witty or very general that sounded good, his popularity meter went way up.

Whenever either of the candidates were talking about the technical details of foreign policy, their popularity hovered around neutral. I take this to mean, most of the audience had no idea what the candidates were talking about... This would jive with the public polls that showed things like in 2002, only like 60% of Americans knew where Iraq was located.

So, in a way our presidential election is about as serious and intellectual as an American Idol or Miss America contest...

Then again, politicians do have to work with other people constantly, so charisma and people skills is of course important.

The post debate infuriated me. Joe Biden is watching with a bunch of people in Milwaukee and we can hear his take, but Palin in PA doesn't have the technology or something.

Why did we hear from Rudy instead of her?

If she cant talk without a script then maybe Rudy should be the VP pick? Don't we all deserve to hear from her. This person that could be president...

@suzy q

McCain's demeanor towards Obama was racist. Point Blank. He refused, refused to make eye contact or talk directly to him.He was doing nothing else but catering to the lowest and sending out a message to all those racists out there to show them that to him Obama is not an opponent worthy of him, but not even a man that he needs to acknowledge. I have never seen such behavior of any Presidential candidate. Shameful,disrespectful and unbecoming of a man running for the highest office of this country.

The spin on the first and very important Presidential debate between John McCain and Barack Obama leads one to think that McCain was the winner. One has to listen to the reactions with a critical mind and analyze what is said. Most supporters of Obama praised Obama naturally but they also credited McCain for holding his own and even winning the debate by just a hair. One focus of the Left has not been on a substantive issue but McCain's apparent grumpy demeanor. This line of attack reveals that McCain did far better than the Left was hoping. Chris Matthews was beside himself because of this. He refers to McCain as grumpy, mean, bitter, and even as a troll in his discussions with pundits on his television show after the debate.

bluecollarphilosopher,

You forget, I think, how much demeanor of the candidates has mattered to swing voters in the past few elections...

We wish McCain and Palin would stop referring to a "Second Holocaust." It's really exploitative and obscene.

~The Jews

jennyolson:
One, "vote" contains no 'l.'
Two, "convince" is spelled with an 'i.'
Three, the plural of "other" is "others."
Four, in this country's politics, at least, being "correct" means being a white male with a rich trophy wife and and 13 houses.

Okay, so I didn't watch the debate yet (my sister taped it for me) so I'm not entirely up to speed. - what is this "second Holocaust" that the Repubs are talking about?

Also, great post Suzy Q. I have experienced that sort of behavior firsthand, working in a very male-dominated industry, and I really like the way you worded that.

It's too bad more isn't being made of the fact that mccain failed to actually debate obama. Rarely, if ever?, did he even look at Obama when he was talking to him/about him and his smug body language was just annoying.

Next up: palin/biden ... can't wait.

The most shocking part for me was when Rudy Giuliani came on TV instead of Palin.

so horrible, so telling.

McBu$h came off like the stinky pant-load curmudgeon that he is. He thinks that women being raped by gorillas is knee-slapping hilarious. What a pig. And his looks represent his innards quite accurately. He looks like a fleshy tyrannosaurus rex with those doll arms o’his---and with that nasty rigor mortis grimace he calls a smile. His debate talking points are offensive to me. He really thinks most of us are hayseeds and suckers. Wait a minute---WE ARE! Lovely. Down goes R-v-W! Thanks, America.