I WISH feminist bloggers/activists were "stereotypical women"!!

Awww.

o_O People still use AOL?

I love the PS: I double dare you to reply so we can have a pointless e-mail war in which no one agrees so I can get my rocks off hating on Feministing.

Really. And we're the pathetic ones?

At least it made me chuckle.

I like when people read titles and headlines and not content. Clearly he's only noticed the *amount* of Palin coverage, not actual words therein.

And if you have to say "don't call what I've just said sexist" it's because you know that what you just said IS SEXIST and you want to say it anyway, with no ramifications. What a wuss.

This is my favorite part:
"You say you are strong, powerful and independent, yet you are constantly whining about wage gaps (which don't exist), abortion (women have all rights in this arena), and rape (so many false accusations it isn't funny)."
-I didn't realize that all these things were made up!! Alright, which one of you has been lying? I do have to say though, I'm relieved. Could you imagine with all those injustices were TRUE!?
Oh...wait...

Oh, I love it. I mean I know I go to websites I believe to be propaganda sites purely to monitor the amount of time/effort/space given to specific people and/or issues.

I'll second this as my favorite part: "You say you are strong, powerful and independent, yet you are constantly whining about wage gaps (which don't exist)[1], abortion (women have all rights in this arena)[2], and rape (so many false accusations it isn't funny)[3]."

1. Except everywhere, and trust when the US government figures it out well then it has been around for a while, but hey I work hard for my $.77.
2. All rights? Wait I thought people were still discussing taking this right away, and I'm pretty sure most of the people talking about this are white men.
3. Wait fake allegations aren't funny? Does that mean rape is normally funny? Because that is what this statement implies. Some people may want to keep their mouths shut until they master the language they use to express bigoted views.

It makes me want to send him a little love letter of my own. Mine would be much shorter consisting of two letters...drum roll.. F U. What an asshat.

It sounds like he doesn’t listen, or has a detail retention problem. Maybe schizophrenic? To me, people like this seem to have very real mental problems. Whenever I read something like this I imagine a bearded fellow in a diaper screaming “mommy”! It isn’t a pleasant sight, I assure you.

The only phrase that comes to mind.
"Lol"

We live a pathetic existence?

We're not the ones that send pathetic and clearly ignorant sexist hate mail >.

"It's probably because she is hotter than any of you girls on feminsting."

I've seen the people of feministings videos, and I think everyone on this site is truly beautiful unique, and educated. Which pwns Sarah Palin any day ;)

As an older feminist, I have come across many people who feel threatened by feminists, who don't understand the need for feminism. They feel safe conforming to some of the society's rule. They resort to insult, but then it's not only anti-feminists who do that. It's also pro-Life Catholics who want pro-Choice Catholics to leave and disappear.

Your aol correspondent does not seem to understand that we find nothing threatening in Sarah Palin, we just see a throw back, a sort of Neanderthal woman, who combines little education with a highly inflated idea of herself. In fact, we feel embarrassed by her. We have an 'Oh Gawd' reaction. But, she is also a 'reality check.' To me, at least.

The thing is, Sarah Palin was chosen the same way McCain decided to suspend his campaign (which was never stopped at any time). She was chosen on an impulse, a fluke, a need to shock the polls. With Palin it worked for a while. With his decision of not attending the first debate, it had the opposite effect.

Frankly, I'm beginning to feel sorry for Sarah Palin, because, very much like George Bush, without a script written for her, she comes through rather 'empty.'

Gotta hand it to him. He types in complete sentences.

Is this the same person who kept complaining about Samhita deleting his trollish comments on other posts? There's no other reason for him to call her out specifically. And the commenter called her weak for deleting his comments instead of replying.

Yes, if someone has a problem with Palin, it must be because she's...hot...So by that logic, this guy must also hate Obama and Biden because they're hot, not because he's paid attention to the news and made an educated decision on his own. It boggles the mind...

Stereotypical women!!!!! LOL, what is that, exactly?

It's really sad that men still think this way. That they will fall for that bullshit from other guys. "You know man, the wage gap is an urban legend dude, tell her to get back in the kitchen". Fuck.

That aside, why is it that men assume that telling us that we're ugly, in EMAIL no less, is going to hurt our feelings. Like, oh no this douche bag doesn't want to marry be and knock me up? I am devastated! And you could tell that after he wrote that he had to get up and go jerk off, since all he could think about was how hot Sarah Palin is.

It's my experience that guys like him are just insecure because women who are "hot" won't date guys like him and women who are feminists know better.

Gotta hand it to him. He types in complete sentences.

And, his spelling seems ok, but he trotted out the same old tired troll crap. Hmmm….I’ll give him a C for effort in the grammar department.

If you want to be an “A” troll, kid, you’re going to have to come up with something a little more original than “feminists are ugly, whiny, and totally jealous of hot chicks!”

Reminds me of the time some pathetic coward, hiding behind an anonymous remailer, tried to forge a talk.abortion posting in my name.

All I could think was, "If they're going to that much trouble just to piss me off, I must be doing something right."

I'm not voting for McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden. They all suck.

So it's ok for him to say Palin sucks, but not you.

I find that one of the best ways to shut up the people who say that the gender wage gap doesn't exist is to ask them if they have the same opinion about the racial wage gap.

The best part is that even the conservatives are turning on Palin, now that she's made such an ass out of herself. Check this out - a National Review columnist has called for Palin to drop out of the race voluntarily!

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiMDhjYTU1NmI5Y2MwZjg2MWNiMWMyYTUxZDkwNTE=

or

http://tinyurl.com/4t6zgw

Watching her in the Katie Couric interview brought uncomfortable memories of that nightmare where I go to class and the teacher announces that it's time for the final that I totally forgot about.

Maybe he doesn't realize that you can see just the posts without whining by visiting the following URL:

http://www.feministing.com/?whining=disabled

I love, love, love that you included his email address...I might just have to take a moment, gather my thoughts, and maybe shoot a reply email over...maybe...

0_0
My boobs do not move like that! I don't think any woman's boobs move like that!
If you're going to make a boob-feel application, at least do it with realistic boobs. Not something that moves like a water balloon rolling on the ground.

Does anyone here read XKCD? If only the joke in today's strip applied to e-mail programs, too.

This letter is scarily similar to the conversation I had with my dad yesterday. I was trying to explain to him WHY I was a feminist, and when the "wage gap" was brought up, he denied that it existed. He said that it was point blank untrue. How do you argue against people with views like that?

Hi, everyone it is me. Some of you have sent me emails. I sent that email to Jessica and not all of you. I thought it was unprofessional of her to post my email address for all to see, you may ask why. She runs this site and is going to get a great amount of email, good and bad sent to her because of it. I have had no success in her responding to me in the past. I though that she would woman up and fight her own battles. If she wanted to put my comments up here I have not problem with that. But email, hmm, she should know that is not right. But here we are.

Now, to my email. I fully believe that women should be equal under the law and have equal rights. That should be stated first. Sarah Palin was the topic in my email My point apparently did not get across very well. The point is this. Even though I beleive she is not qualified to be a candidate, she is there. Women must not be behind the equality curve if that is that case. I understand that talking about her political views is essential to you cause and website. That is fine. But, there seems to be extra attention paid to her. SNL comedy skits and such. Why make fun of her. On the one hand she does not represent your views. On the other, she is obviously a successful woman which proves some of the arguments on this site, about equality, null and void.

Now, on to other comments I made. Samhita makes comments about white men alot. I can only say that she is racist because if a white male makes those comments about another race he is considered racist. This should be easy to understand.

Now, to my final comments. When it comes to children, men have no choices. Abortion is totally in a woman's hands. Men have no choice. Is that equality. I would say no. Men can't opt out of parenthood if they wanted to. He is at her mercy. Not fair at all. If it is "your body, your choice" should it not be your wallet when it comes to child support? That is just my view.

As far as false rape goes it is out there. One of your subscribers said "how dare you blame the victim." I did not blame any victims. Rape is a terrible crime and not the victim's fault. Please read the email. I never said that.

Wage gaps. There are lots of statistics thrown out. Problem is, there are too many variables to say that it exists. Look back at some of your past articles and people who have made comments can at the very least somewhat agree with this.

Some of you may want to know a little about me for giggles. I am thirty five years old and a CPA. I do not date much, this is true. I wanted a wife and family, but inside the last ten years I have found the dating landscape to be unbearable. You may think being a guy is easy. But it is hard to have equality thrown in your face while at the same time having to pay for all dates and treating women like they are princesses. And believe me, there are plenty of women who have your views, while at the same time wanting all of the traditional stuff. That is not right and I know you could agree with me on that.

Jessica, calling you pathetic was for shock value as you have not responded to me before and still have not. Since you posted my email, I think it is only fair that you leave my comments in this section. Would you agree?

@ anomrabbit: That. Comic. Is CLASSIC. LMAO!

Meanwhile... somehow I think Jenn Astle hit the nail RIGHT on the head. *smh* So sad, so sad....

Wow. So who's going to be the first one to touch that?

"I do not date much, this is true."

This must be a joke. Right?

To amy_sarah. Yes it is true. Could I date more if I wanted. Oh yeah. Could I go to bars on a Friday night and pic women up to fuck and chuck? Yeah, that would be easy. I came over here and made serious comments without attacking you. Can you do that or are you not capable of that?

So I have desided that it can be officially douche bags crawl out of their hole week. I've started in the last month to be more vocal about pointing out and not putting up with the suttle sexist behaviors that our society has told us we should except and convinced the ladies of as well. (Not that I'm not a vocalist from way back;) For some reason this week they are coming out of the wood work.
While I was hostessing at work last night a group of females who were dressed up for a birthday/ladies night were leaving while a woman and her husband were coming in. The man looked the group of girls up and down and then said "there go the strippers." I said "actually sir I work with one of them at the Democratic Headquarters in town." He got all uncomfortable and said "I was just saying." And I said "And I was just saying." (In front of my dinning room manager no less.)
So since then at all 3 jobs I have had a slew of condisending ass wads.
SO here's how it relates. They are feeling the heat. They are getting threatened and for good reason. I'm not going to back down. I will continue to point out sexist behavior and try to explain to my female friends that they do not deserve to be treated that way and one day the pressure will be too much.
THANKS FOR THE MOTIVATION TO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK MR. THREATENED SEXIST NON-VOTER!!

I just meant that this whole thing is a joke - I mean, why are you explaining your dating history to us? Are we supposed to find it endearing or some sort of explanation as to your misogynistic comments?

I think we should probably just ignore the asshat at this point...

It only gave you a smirk?? The P.S. alone had me dying of laughter!

Well of course this site is going to get hate mail, the ideas expressed here can be very polarizing and gender divisive.

I'm sure MRA sites get just as much hate mail, if not more, from women.

"Men can't opt out of parenthood if they wanted to."

Yeah.Please tell all the single mothers out there!

"Men can't opt out of parenthood if they wanted to. He is at her mercy."

AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah tell that to my mom whose father abandoned her when she was 2 years old...left her and my grandma in the middle of the night. Disappeared. No child support.

Tell that to my friend whose daughter's father left the state when she told him she was pregnant. Didn't sign the birth certificate. Officially the kid has no dad. No child support.

Tell that to my other friend, who, after beating her repeatedly, her husband left her with two toddlers. State ordered child support. He refused to pay. 5 years later she hasn't seen a dime, petitions to terminate his parental rights. He doesn't give the paperwork a second glance. Officially those kids have no dad.

Tell that to my third friend. Her husband left her when she was 7 months pregnant with kids. No contact. 10 years later she hasn't seen a dime and the kids have never met their father.

Can't opt out MY ASS.

This HAS to be the Frat-seriesofnumbers who got banned by Samhita. Who is hot (Samhita, I mean). As are all the other feministing women. DUde should have done his research and looked at your pictures before deciding that you were jealous of Palin's hotness.

And how does Palin's success prove that women magically became equal some moment when I wasn't looking? How does ONE successful woman prove that sexism doesn't exist? You have to have an equal number of successful women as successful men before you make that kind of argument.

Obama is black (I know! It's crazy! I almost missed it!). He is running for president. Can we declare that racism in America is dead? Well, I'm sure JCWHiteFratboy thinks so (well, except for Samhita, she's still racist even if no one else is).

And the whole abortion thing...waaaah! I don't like condoms*, and now she's pregnant, even though she SAID she was on the pill, and I have no control over what happens inside her body...waaaah!

*ecause you KNOW these MRA trolls think birth control is all a woman's responsibility

Single mothers chose to be single mothers. They made shitty choices on men and now want men to pay. This is easy to see, penny rose. Why fuck a guy that you know is not going to stay around. This is the part that is really a riot. Oh, geez, I fucked a dude I met at the bar and he won't be a good father. I just don't understand it. Please. It is called personal responsibility. You have to find a guy that is willing to accecpt his responsiblility or you might get all of it. It is that easy. You also kick out the word misogyninst if I don't agree with your views. That would automatically make you misandrists.

"But it is hard to have equality thrown in your face"

Oh no! Now, guys, come on--doesn't this make you sad? Have some fucking sympathy! This poor man is having his superiority challenged! What a bummer. I feel almost as sorry for him as I do for the KKK. Equality hurts!

(It's statements like this one that make it completely pointless to pay any heed to anything else a troll writes.)

jcwhite -
I don't usually engage with trolls, but your last comment is so blatantly absurd that I just couldn't resist. You said that single mothers chose to be single mothers. By the same "logic," didn't the fathers in these scenarios CHOOSE to be fathers? I know you don't date much, but even you have to know that it takes two people to make a child. Since both the mother and the father made the decision to have sex, why should only the mother bear the financial, emotional, etc. responsibility of raising a child?
People are calling you a misogynist not because you disagree with them, but because you are saying misogynistic things, like that only women should bear the responsibility of raising children and that only women made a "shitty choice."

Judith Jewcakes, your comment is the dumbest I've seen so far. I don't mind having equality. I explained that, but it got past you I guess. But when you go out on a date and women don't want equality when the check comes, that is what I'm talking about. See Judith, you don't really believe in equality. You only like it when it suits you.

"Judith Jewcakes, your comment is the dumbest I've seen so far."

So, I take that as proof that he doesn't actually look at what he's typing.

gomillas. You don't know the definition of misogyny. It is the hatred of women. Posting views on life is not the hatred of women. If a woman says that every guy is a jerk, that would not be misandrist now would it? It is just her view and does not mean that she hates men. You people here use that word to keep any disention in check. Yes, it does take two people to have a child, no argument there. But, if a guy has no say so as far as abortion goes he should not have to pay. That is not equality. Are you saying that the decision to have the baby is an equal decision, because it is not. This is such a simple point that it is like shooting fish in a barrel. Why did she have sex knowing that that was a possiblilty. She did not have to do it. If a guy has no say so, he should not have to pay. Hey, this helps your cause, because women would be aborting left and right now that child support is not going to happen. Misogyny = Hatred of women. I have shown no hatred. Anyone saying that I have is lying.

kurd55: "It sounds like he doesn’t listen, or has a detail retention problem. Maybe schizophrenic? To me, people like this seem to have very real mental problems. Whenever I read something like this I imagine a bearded fellow in a diaper screaming “mommy”! It isn’t a pleasant sight, I assure you."

Next week is National Mental Illness Awareness Week - perhaps in honour of that we could all practice ways of expressing disagreement with someone without insulting and miscategorizing the mentally ill.

But it is hard to have equality thrown in your face while at the same time having to pay for all dates and treating women like they are princesses.

I see that complaint all the time and I have no idea what it means. Like they're princesses? Is that some sort of complaint about having to treat them with respect? Or are you talking about whiny people who demand all your attention? Because I've dated some men like that.

Dating sucks, for every one person you get along well with there are a dozen who are totally wrong for you. But it's kinda dishonest to just give up and then blame it all on the entirety of the gender you're trying to date.

Oh, and, I always pay for my half on a date. And I've gotten some really strange-ass comments about it from my dates. If you don't want to pay for everything, don't argue about it when she pays for her half.

Y'know...the original email was weak. Childish. However, the eventual post by the same person was actually something I'd consider replying to, because it shows signs of someone who might be willing to listen. Not entirely convinced that's the case, but I'm willing to give jcwhite the benefit of the doubt, and put aside any knee jerk reactions I might be inclined to have, and just share my thoughts on this issue of "no say in adoption, so shouldn't be responsible".

"Why did she have sex knowing that that was a possiblilty. "

Hmm, well, the same thing can arguably said for the man. Why did he have sex knowing that she might get pregnant and he might be liable for child support?

But that's neither here nor there. I pondered for five minutes whether I felt men should be legally responsible for a child simply because of their contribution of genetic material. And I slowly had to concede that, in general, I don't think he should be.

I personally believe that women have the right to opt-out of child-bearing responsibility via an abortion. If women can opt-out, why can't men? Mind you, the women's option has a LOT Of stigma attached to it. It's not like she's choosing not to eat the bag of cookies she bought after all and dumps into into the trash bin with no further thought. It is a decision she must either hide (possibly from those she loves most), or a decision which she will be subject to scorn/censure/etc. for. So in truth, it's hard to just flippantly say "eh, she can choose, so he should have that right too".

So indeed, if a man is not pro-choice...if he is not willing to shout in the middle of a crowded square where all his family and friends and community can hear that he unequivocally supports a woman's right to choose, then I 100% believe he should pay up. If he doesn't champion her right to choose, then he has no such right. But if he is a man who supports women's reproductive rights, if he is honest with the woman right from the start that he doesn't want a child, then I would support his right to say "you want this child, not me, the work is all on you".

That said, if she gets an abortion, the state should bill him for half of the non-insured fees. :P

kurd55, you seem to know a lot about mental illness. I hope you get over whatever you have.

I really don't understand this kind of thing. I've never once had the desire to send insulting hate mail to some conservative site just because I don't agree with them.

You know, some of the things you girls have said to jcwhite0825@aol.com are pretty bad and hybocritical.

He dosen't seem that bad and sounds like his is truely for equality. I think his point is that true equality means that women are not going to benifit in every way, like paying for meals and having to include men in the abortion choice.

Some of you sound mad about that. Equality is here and we have gotten what we wished for. It also means that as women gain more power as they are now, there are also going to be abuses that occure to men and we should be sypathetic to it in stead of belittling like a lot of you are doing.

Bluejay and JCWhite-

Men cannot opt out of child support because it is not the woman's right, it is the child's right. The mother cannot even create a legally enforceable document saying she won't sue for child support, because it is not her right to give away. A child has a right to be fed and clothed, whether it was "wanted" or not.

BlueJay, you say that if a man is pro-choice he should be able to tell his partner that if he gets her pregnant, he doesn't want to pay for the child support. I guess the more obvious solution is just to sleep with a) women you trust (to use birth control and to be honest), and b) women who would want to get an abortion should they get pregnant. Or perhaps bank some sperm and then get snipped. It's completely unlikely that such a basic right (for a child to get support) is ever going to change, so I would just stop playing with fire, and realize that power over one's own body will never compare to the duty to pay child support.

he made another good point about "if she can opt out of pregnacy, then he should be able to too"- That would be true equality and you guys that are attacking him know it too, whether you'll admit to it or not.

@jcw

"Men can't opt out of parenthood if they wanted to. He is at her mercy."

If it is "your body, your choice" should it not be your wallet when it comes to child support?

Solution. Wear a rubber stupid! DUH!

eco, "Men cannot opt out of child support because it is not the woman's right, it is the child's right" Ahhhhh... So now you want to talk about the CHILD'S rights, careful, you hypocrisy is showing

eco, "Men cannot opt out of child support because it is not the woman's right, it is the child's right" Ahhhhh... So now you want to talk about the CHILD'S rights, funny that dosent come up more when abortion is mentioned. careful, you hypocrisy is showing

@ampersand
I'm with you. Besides, there is so much hateful stuff on the Net, addressing it all would be a full-time career.
This fellow, however, seems a bit starved for attention from women, which explains his need to troll this site. This is likely the most interaction he's had with the opposite sex in years.
Even negative attention at this point is better than nothing, I suppose. And he's likely too shy to catcall.
As for admonishing Jessica to get a life, I think she has a great one -- published author, influential website, good man, adorable cat and dog. Gosh, not a lot lacking there!

"If a woman says that every guy is a jerk, that would not be misandrist now would it?"

Actually yes it would, especially with that caveat that it is actually her view. Expressing your view that all men are contemptible (see: definition of a jerk) is a pretty surefire way of proving you have contempt for all men. Unfortunately for your argument, feminists don't "[say] that every guy is a jerk". Whoops. But if that's supposed to be an analogy for your own behavior (ie., you believe that every woman is a jerk), then you're a misogynist. Hooray for basic thinking skills...?

'eco, "Men cannot opt out of child support because it is not the woman's right, it is the child's right" Ahhhhh... So now you want to talk about the CHILD'S rights, funny that dosent come up more when abortion is mentioned. careful, you hypocrisy is showing'

Nobody wants to abort children, and AFAIK child support isn't usually paid to fetuses, so I fail to see the hypocrisy. Child = person, therefore has human rights. Fetus != person, therefore does not have human rights.

He needs to leave New York.
Far too jaded.

I have been a feminist for longer than some of you have been alive and I must say that the way women have been acting and venting hatred on this post is despicable. Some of you are far worse than guys could ever be. This is the stuff that, rightly, gives feminists a bad name.

There've been more than a couple of situations I've heard about in the last decade or so when a man has gone to court to stop a woman from having an abortion. Sometimes the man has been successful, sometimes not. I believe that this is quite rare, and certainly not most women's experience, but I wanted to put it out there - some men have been able to stop women from having abortions. I'll try to find info on this if anyone's interested.

As for the family courts - men get the shaft, I have to agree. This is partly because there've been a lot of shitty abusive Dads in the past, partly because our culture still believes the child's relationship with the mother is of most importance and will benefit the child, and partly because of 'tradition'. It sucks for men who are prevented from seeing their kids. I think it's unfair for men. There are a lot of men who are organising about this, and good on them. But it's NOT the fault of feminism. I repeat: it's NOT the fault of feminism. It's a problem with glacier-paced courts; it's an industry of misery etc. etc. Whoever is not the custodial parent should have to pay child support - mother or father.

Nobody wants to abort children, and AFAIK child support isn't usually paid to fetuses, so I fail to see the hypocrisy. Child = person, therefore has human rights. Fetus != person, therefore does not have human rights.

Oh come now. If a man does not have the right to force a woman to abort any more than he can force her to bear, then you have taken away his right to choose when it is still a fetus and not a child. That his choice is about the "child" rather than the "fetus" is an unfair argument when he never had the choice to begin with.

If a man did not encourage her to get pregnant...if he did not mislead her into thinking he wanted her to keep the child...if he has not already been acting as a father to the child...if he is not in opposition to women having the same choice...then he has the right to Not Be The Father, as much as the woman has the right to choose Not to Be the Mother if she makes that choice early enough.

Now, if a woman's choice is eventually lost, then, um, hell yeah they should bleed his bank account dry. Take away MY choice, will you...*ominous muttering*

There've been more than a couple of situations I've heard about in the last decade or so when a man has gone to court to stop a woman from having an abortion. Sometimes the man has been successful, sometimes not. I believe that this is quite rare, and certainly not most women's experience, but I wanted to put it out there - some men have been able to stop women from having abortions. I'll try to find info on this if anyone's interested.

Ugh. I did not know that. And that's very upsetting. :( And yes, it does change my POV on this a little, if such a thing is actually possible.

Margofemm, I think you're confusing mockery with hatred. The man emailed stupid things, we mocked, he came here and posted more stupid things, we mocked some more. We also (sometimes snarkily) addressed his points, and pointed out his sexism and misogyny.

Salmonarm, I'd like to see some references. I know some men in Canada tried that tactic in the mid-90s, but they lost, further solidifying the absolute right of Canadian women to control their reproduction.

I think it's hilarious how any thread, on any forum, dealing with any topic, can instantly be derailed by even the briefest mention of c4m.

That said: When it's her body that's involved, it's her choice. When his body is involved, the choice is his. As soon as a child comes into existence -- that's at birth -- both adults are responsible for it.

Oh, and if every time I had an orgasm I knew I was taking a chance of creating a child, I'd be damn careful where, and in whose company, I had my orgasms.

Salmonarm- I'm a law student involved in women's rights issues, and I've never heard of that. The only thing I can imagine has happened is the man pointed out that the woman was *already* violating the law of the state- perhaps she didn't follow the 24-hour waiting period or didn't notify her parents, and he busted her for it. I would be interested in seeing the cases you've heard about.

Bluejay- I still feel like we're not on the same page. A women's right to choose is not based on her right to be a mother (though that's a consideration, but that's not what this right is based on) it's based on her right to control her own body. Since the man is not the owner of her body, he cannot exert choice over it. The fact that this particular choice could result in a baby, as opposed to a tattoo or a tumor removal, is unfortunate for you, but there really isn't a tit-for tat in this situation.

Rights are just rights. There is no trading, you either have a right, or you don't. Children either deserve support, or don't, and women either get power over their body or don't.

In regards to cases, here's one that occurred in PA in 2002.

Umm, it is "when everyone here writes". A few people have pointed out some shortcomings with my grammar, so to do this is appropriate. Yes samhita, why not talk about you. Why is that funny? One of your subscribers emailed me and said that it was impossible for people of color to be racist. I almost died from uncontrollable laughter. Do I really think you are racist? I don't know. I have not met you in person. But, with some of the comments you make about "white dudes", who are all evil of course, it makes you wonder.

Bluejay- I still feel like we're not on the same page. A women's right to choose is not based on her right to be a mother (though that's a consideration, but that's not what this right is based on) it's based on her right to control her own body.

You sure? Think about what you are saying for a moment...her body. Then ask yourself, have pro-choice advocates really truly taken up the cause for the sake of a woman's body?

I think it's about a woman's right to control her life. The "body" think is just, well, a good catch-phrase. Being pro-choice isn't about avoiding weight gain or health risks in childbirth. It is about not being forced into parenthood, about not suffering the scorn of the community for being pregnant at the "wrong" time (too young, not married, etc).

So, with that said, because it does effect men's lives just like it does women...ehh...you can see where I'm going with this, right?

The fact that this particular choice could result in a baby, as opposed to a tattoo or a tumor removal, is unfortunate for you

For me...? *confused* Oh, heh, you thought I was a man?

It looks like a white man finally stood up to you girls. burns a little don't it.

LOL@alpoqueen

Someone channeling an angry toddler ranted. It's funny. Don't flatter yourselves.

...yes, because the White Man has never Stood Up to the Girls before. /facepalm

So yeah, I emailed JCwhite. I explained that racism is a national systemic system to try and purposefully disadvantage a section of individuals (or groups). Who decides who is the littler guy? White majority right now. So in that essence, people of color COULD NOT enforce racism because guess what, they aren't the controlling body OF that system of disadvantages. Great logic, right, JC? Post the full fact/phrase before going off on a whine-fest.

P.s: Is it just me, or is altoqueen just a lackey of JCwhite?

Re. my claim earlier. I'll look for some more stories to go with the one L-K posted. I should clarify, though, in the meantime: "Sometimes the man has been successful, sometimes not" means that: the suit is filed, and during the time it takes to have it resolved, the woman misses the window of opportunity for safer or legal abortion. Thus, he is successful in preventing the abortion.

I first read about these instances in a book called, ironically enough, Misogynies...

Hmm. It does seem like Planned Parenthood vs. Casey should have put paid to any attempts to stop an abortion in the US; and as JPlum pointed out, after the Daigle case in Canada the law is pretty clear.

In 2001 in the UK the Hone case resulted in closer scrutiny of regulations, but I think the abortion was carried out.

Maybe I'm thinking of the 2002 Stachokus/Meyers case, and something anecdotal from that time? I'll keep looking - want to watch the debate right now!

Dani, I once again have no idea who these other people are. I have posted today, by myself and take all battles on myself. We have laws that say racism is not allowed. In your original email Dani, you said that it was impossible for people of color to be racist. I could post the email here, but I will not. I try to keep emails private, as that is the professional thing to do. Why are you tryng to get me kicked off Dani? It was Jessica who posted my email here. I did not come here with a comment first. I have no idea who altoqueen is. Racism is wrong, period.

BlueJay- what I am basing my argument on is what the supreme court has viewed as the basis to the right to abortion. The right to privacy and the right to bodily autonomy. While there are many other reasons why being pro-choice is important, this is where the basic rights I speak about come from. It doesn't matter what feminist or any other organization says, this is what the argument is based on, basic human rights.

If jcwhite is so desperate for a good woman to date, maybe he should get together with alto queen. They sound like they'd be very happy together.

Is this guy's narrow minded view of who should be treating who like what in a relationship worth all of this time? Don't we have more important things to challenge? Listen, this guy admitted that he doesn't get out much, and he's all of a sudden getting attention, albeit negative attention, from a bunch of women...and sadly we're playing into it. I haven't heard him argue anything even remotely constructive since he replied to Jessica's email publicly. Why are we still giving him the time of day?

jcwhite0825 sounds like someone needing to be loved, who's come to an interesting place to look for it. He's tried to get to grips with thinking women and been slightly bamboozled, reacted ill-advisedly, and been unexpectedly outed. I love you, jcwhite.

Polite nod to margofemm.

I think that we should all be free to do what we want. At first I thought it would be cool to have a vice president as a woman, but after what I have been hearing what she has to say I changed my mind completely.

I think that we should all be free to do what we want. At first I thought it would be cool to have a vice president as a woman, but after what I have been hearing what she has to say I changed my mind completely.

I think that we should all be free to do what we want. At first I thought it would be cool to have a vice president as a woman, but after what I have been hearing what she has to say I changed my mind completely.

I think that we should all be free to do what we want. At first I thought it would be cool to have a vice president as a woman, but after what I have been hearing what she has to say I changed my mind completely.

I think that we should all be equal, and I thought that it would be a good idea to have a woman vice president but after hearing what she has to say i changed my mind.

jcwhite0825 Says:

I came over here and made serious comments without attacking you. Can you do that or are you not capable of that?

I am late in finding this thread and the conversation has already moved on, but I could not ignore this statement.

JC: Unfortunately I realize you really are being serious. That is not a compliment. On the other hand your claim of not coming here to attack is clearly bullshit.

You wrote in to this site specifically to cause a commotion, and you enjoy doing your best to piss everyone off while hoping to get them to respond with venom. Then you can point to this and say: "See! I told you so! They are nothing but man haters!"

I don't care if you want to claim your only wanting to have a serious conversation on serious issues. If that were true you would have written something much different.

Clearly you get off on insulting women and men. Yeah, men too! The vocal minority of men who speak as you do give rise to the idea that most men agree with you. If that is not insulting to honorable men everywhere then I don't know what the hell would.

You are certainly entitled to your views but the fact you wrote in here, in the manner you did and with your chosen words, raises a number of legitimate questions about your mental health.

Seriously.

Miles Webster

There is too much stupidity here for me to even keep up, so I'll just say this:

It seems that some people still think that the internet is 100% anonymous and that none of us need bear any responsibility for anything we say or do to other users. How sad for people to get the rude awakening that this is not true, and be held accountable for every dumb thing they've ever said! Maybe next time, some people should think twice about what they type in hate mails, intended to put uppity feminists in their place. Especially when said feminist helps maintain a feminist blogs where tons more uppity feminists are ready, with fingers poised over keyboards and minds opened to criticize.

Bwahaha.

"But when you go out on a date and women don't want equality when the check comes, that is what I'm talking about. See Judith, you don't really believe in equality. You only like it when it suits you."

Whoa, jcwhite, when was the last time I went on a date with you? Was I sleepwalking? Drugged?

And this is why people like this don't even merit argument; they simply do not listen. Anyone who's spent half-a-minute on a feminist blog or forum knows no feminist supports chivalry.

The problem with a man's right to not pay for a child he doesn't want is that it is based on the mistaken belief that abortion is a woman's right not to pay for a child she doesn't want.

This is absolutely not true. After a child is born, and not physically attached to anyone's body, a woman is as much on the hook for child support as a man is. If a woman wants to get out of paying child support, she may give a child up for adoption, but if the father is known and wants custody, she can't do it; she'd have to give the child to him, and then she'd be on the hook for child support. Women are not legally allowed to give up a child for adoption without the consent of the father if he is known. (If he is not known, then he can't be hit up for child support either.)

What both men and women have is the power to control their own bodies. Men may control whether or not they ejaculate sperm into a woman. Women may control whether they ovulate, have *some* control over whether men ejaculate into them (I say some control because rape is common, but not nearly as common as consensual sex -- the *average* man listens when the average woman says no), and are permitted to control whether or not a conceived embryo grows to viability within their bodies. After viability -- after a fetus can survive outside a woman's body -- the woman usually loses the right to abortion unless pregnancy will kill her or the fetus cannot survive long after birth.

So what you can control is your own body. A born child who does not depend on your body costs both parents money unless they both agree to terminate rights and surrender the child for adoption.

Frankly, given that the past 10,000 years has been a history of men ducking out of their obligation to help raise or help provide for their children extremely often, giving men the right to opt out of child support for a born child, given that they do have a birth control solution under their control (as imperfect as condoms are), would be tragically irresponsible. Unless we want to move to a model of society in which all citizens contribute to the upkeep of all children, and no parent male or female *needs* to pay to provide for a child, which would be a reasonable alternative. Men already have little motive to use birth control; the fear of the financial consequences of an unwanted child is about the *only* factor that keeps men from behaving as irresponsibly as they used to.

What men like JCWhite want is the ability to have sex without condoms and then get out of any financial consequences by signing a piece of paper. Even if a woman is getting an abortion to avoid financial consequences, the fact is she must have *surgery* to do it. Perhaps one could argue that any man who wants to not pay child support must travel to a single provider in their state who may be 200 miles away, stay overnight, and travel through a gauntlet of people calling him a fag and a child abandoner and screaming "Daddy, don't leave me!" at him, until he arrives for the surgery, where they scrape out his colon with metal instruments. Abortion is less physically difficult than *pregnancy*, but it is not the equivalent of signing a piece of paper.

Why is anyone even responding to him? Did he get banned yet? For me its pointless to even engage w/ these people. Why they feel the need to peruse sites with different beliefs and ideology than their own and harass others for their constitutional right to a differing opinion is beyond me. There are plenty of sites/viewpoints that I could get angry about, and waste a lot of time passive-aggressively emailing/spamming them, but what's the point? I'd rather contribute my time to the places that I feel like I can support and that support me, the places that I think are doing some good in the world. He's obviously got some deeper issues going on with women...why even devote a single post to him?

AlaraJRogers, that was very awesome.

I will seconod that that was pretty awesome, though. If he has any pride or sense left at this point he will be effectively silenced.

http://www.myspace.com/cwhokiecpa

haha.
And he's 35. This just struck me as kind of a pathetic pasttime for a 35 year old.

I find the argument that women have reproductive choices/freedom and men don't because in addition to having the right/means/freedom to choose to sleep with women who don't want kids or women physically unable to bear children or to wear a condom or to get a vasectomy or even to abstain from sex, they cannot back out if they forego it all and the woman makes HER choice (like he did his) and goes through something life-threatening/altering that he does not have to deal with and with which she too will be financially responsible for the rest of her life ... bemusing and annoying. Sorry for the run-on sentence but my GOSH how absurd! This isn't about women having "more rights" and/or "taking away rights" from men. It's about some men wanting to have sex without accounting for their biology/reproductive potential and being upset they don't have that privilege. What a joke!

And really, whjat's with the "even at 44" bullshit? "Even at"? So ... it's surprising a woman is attractive at 44? This dude is the one with the issues.

He is right, you guys do have a major boner for Sarah Palin, with all the constant stories about her and shit.

If a man can get a 'paper abortion' (i.e., decide that he will not support his child) why can't the woman get a 'paper abortion' as well, and decide that the man has no parental rights over the child? If the only 'automatic parent' of a born child is the gestational parent, then why should a man get to decide whether he is also a parent? Shouldn't that be up to the person who gave birth? I'm just saying. Because if she could just get an abortion--and then the man would have no bio. child, why can't she choose to not get an abortion and still deny the man his bio. child? Since we're acting like pre-viable fetuses and born children are the same.

And "chauvinist"--it is a feminist website, and in many of her policies, she is anti-feminist. Plus, as a female, a lot of sexism is being directed at her, and a lot of legitimate criticisms of her are being inaccurately labeled as sexism by the Republican noise machine. Hence the posts. If you read them, you would know that.

"It's about some men wanting to have sex without accounting for their biology/reproductive potential and being upset they don't have that privilege."

And what is it that women are attempting to do? Are keep it in your pants, restrict yourself to trusted partners, or use BC your only options? Or is sexual freedom without slut shaming not a goal? And what is a man to do when birth control methods under real world conditions, over longer than a single year of use fail, as they often do (no the pill is not 99% effective, nor are condoms)? What options remain for a woman, if she is pregnant for whatever reason? Do men have those choices?

"If a man can get a 'paper abortion' (i.e., decide that he will not support his child) why can't the woman get a 'paper abortion' as well, and decide that the man has no parental rights over the child?"

Because they aren't the same thing. The woman can indeed decide she does not want rights or obligation to her own already born child. Adoption is one such example.

A male, she cannot give the kiddie up for adoption unless he does too. Otherwise, he raises it, and she pays child support.

Oh wait---just like we're asking him to if she chooses to bear the child. Funny how that works.