Well, since I am a beautifully plump woman, I like to call myself a Bona Fide Plumpy. I refuse to let Madison Avenue or anyone else define me.

CF

Jolly figured?
Sassy sized?
Something that references Marilyn or Scarlet?

I read a rant at Fat?So! about taking back the word "fat". It's just a descriptor, like tall or thin or short. If "tall" isn't a dirty word, why should "fat" be one?

I don't know if this is just me, and i really don't mean to come off the wrong way here, but I really feel sometimes like its OK for minority women to be larger because they're still seen as sexy like Queen Latifah and Monique, but I feel like as a larger Caucasian woman, because I'm big I'm not sexy. (and i realize that is a large run-on sentence but i'll let it be.) Monique and Queen Latifah are the two go-to minority larger women, but the largest Caucasian woman you seen talked about are normally about size 8s or less. As I said, I really don't mean to come off the wrong way here, but its just on my mind.

I've always liked the term "buxom", but then again, I openly call myself a broad (and without shame -- hell yes I'm a broad, and a bitch... and probably a bint and I'm not ashamed of it!)

Rachel: "Buxom" specifically means "having large breasts", so it's not necessarily a good descriptor for "plus-sized" women.

I've always favored "voluptuous" myself. To me it has connotations of sexiness and abundance. "Zaftig" is good too--it's Yiddish for "juicy" and has long been used to describe full-figured women.

It makes me rather sad that we can't all just be "women." Because while I sincerely can appreciate trying to find better terms for larger ladies (i.e. full-figured), does that make me, at 115 lbs, half-figured? How weird does THAT sound?

It's just sad that American society forces us to refer to everyone by their appearance. It doesn't work out for everyone all the time.

Why don't we ditch the labels for larger women and start calling women smaller than a size 12 "miniature"?

Just kidding.

One of my friends refers to me as 'Rubenesque'. I like that. Also, I have no problem with the word fat. As Shae points out, it's just another descriptor like tall or short.

Kelsey, you bring up a good point. I never thought about the terminology from a thin woman's point of view. Another part of the terminology that has been bugging me is showing a larger lady and making the statement that this is what real women look like. It's as if thin women are less real. You really can't win with this one. You're either too fat or too thin.

Suzy, I also feel like it is somehow more OK for women of color, especially black women to be larger. The larger white women that get talked about tend to be smaller. The I believe that the 'plus sized' woman who won America's Next Top Model was a size 8. The only 2 larger white women that I can think of are Beth Ditto and Wynonna Judd.

I also vote for voluptuous. It means curvy AND sexy and was all the rage when Victoria I ruled the UK and was the hippest lady around :p

Suzy, I do know what you mean. I think it's generally assumed that Black & Brown women are always curvy, that White women are usually thinner and than Asian women are NEVER overweight. So yes, society definitely shames certain women for their weight & size more than others and its messed up.

And I also think it's weird that being curvy is always associated with being somehow "overweight". I am slightly overweight now, but even if I lost a ton of weight, my ass & thighs would still be disproportionately thicker & fatter than the rest of my body. And my breasts would still be decently sized too. Like, I would fit into medium-sized shirts if not for my chest. With some brands, being a B-cup means you're XL! Don't even get me started on pants shopping while being curvy and short. Impossible!

I don't know if this is just me, and i really don't mean to come off the wrong way here, but I really feel sometimes like its OK for minority women to be larger because they're still seen as sexy like Queen Latifah and Monique, but I feel like as a larger Caucasian woman, because I'm big I'm not sexy.
Posted by Suzy | September 25, 2008 12:37 PM

Whose idea of sexy are you hoping to be? I don't know if black guys think of Queen Latifah as sexy, but I doubt any white guys do (although she was awesome in Chicago). I don't know who Monique is, but that picture sure isn't of a sexy woman.

Aleks... that's more than a little offensive, on more than one level.

@Shae not only is your commentary offensive it is completely wrong. Yes you can point to two plus size women of color and say that they are accepted, however socially WOC that are the same size are subject to just as much social discipline. There is also a combination of racism, and fat phobia. Yeah the whole big momma routine and how she is gonna love you up, feed you grits and have no concern for herself. Do you recognize the sterotype yet? No, well let me make it clearer for you...MAMMY. That is right MAMMY. She is a fat sexless woman that serves the needs of others.

Aleks... that's more than a little offensive, on more than one level.
Posted by Halo September 25, 2008 2:09 PM

Is it inaccurate? Read the post I was replying to. Suzy's upset because the standard of "sexy" for white women is more weight restrictive than for "minority women" (one assumes excluding Asian). She held up two black celebrities as proof, and I pointed out that if anyone considers them sexy, it's divided on cultural lines. The same guy who thinks a white woman Queen Latifah's size is unattractively large would probably not be attracted to her either.

Aleks, why is Mo'Nique not sexy? You didn't say *you* didn't find her sexy; you said she isn't sexy. That is offensive, as others have said. Do you say it because she's full-figured? Because she's black? Both?

I, for one, think Mo'Nique is beautiful and sexy -- she's vibrant, intelligent, funny, gorgeous, & voluptuous. How is that NOT sexy? Same goes for Queen Latifah.

I think I understand what you mean, Suzy. If you watch "Project Runway," there is a designer from Liberia named Korto who is very curvy, very sexy, and very beautiful. She has a shape that is attractive on her, but I don't think I would find the same shape as attractive on a caucasian woman.

I don't think I find her attractive because she resembles the stereotypical Mammy in any way. Perhaps it is because she can wear culturally-appropriate, figure-enhancing clothing without the sense of appropriation.

i am doing a junior inquiry thesis for my high school and a topic contender is how race influences body image. these comments are so thought-provoking and related. does anyone have any suggestions? also, would anyone mind if i quoted them? if i can use your comments in my research, just leave your comment name. thank you so much! i think this project will be really worthwhile for such an apparently relevant, heated, and thought-provoking topic.

Oddly, on that show, she kept going after not so large men.

Anyway...

Definitely can get with the idea that size 0-1 as "standard" of beauty being a problem.

but I also have a problem when folks try to take the complete opposite tack and try to pass off grossly overweight as "real." Neither helps any damn body. Fact is most women...no, most people fall somewhere between those extremes. That's real.

I find it particularly problematic when fat is pushed as some ideal for black women. A large portion of obesity in black communities is directly related to shit eating habits born out of poverty and slave food legacies. These "happy to be fat" men and women soon find themselves with diabeties, high blood pressure and their related ailments. It is NOT cute.

Also much of the cultural thought on the size issue also comes from issues of poverty. it is believed (with some evidence) that being somewhat overweight is a sign that one is not poor (or on crack) because one can afford food to eat. You will find many people who used to be poor eating a lot (and fast) and gaining weight in a subconscious means of storing up for some economic downturn.

All that to say, there are many reasons why you may find supposed large size acceptance in black communitites, but that doesn't mean that they are not indicative of some lack of body image pathology. It simply indicates that there are a whole other set of pathologies not usually noticed by the larger society. And this means we should be very careful about how we promote supposed "other" body images since we may in advertently promote some other pathologies.

No, Aleks, you said: "I don't know who Monique is, but that picture sure isn't of a sexy woman."

That's offensive. Why isn't it a picture of a sexy woman?

For the record, I know plenty of white men who find both attractive. My boyfriend thinks Queen Latifah is beautiful. I'm not sure he knows who Mo'nique is, but something tells me he'd find her sexy as well.

I'm a size 20 and I have no problem with "fat". It's only insulting if put in an insulting context. Frankly, overly cutesy descriptors for weight make me grind my teeth. They're condescending, and by their very euphemistic nature imply we have something to be ashamed of.

FAT. Take it back!

And in addition to my previous point I want to highlight an issue seen in Jamaica.

Since there is high social pressure to be "rounded" in Jamaica , I was told by a relative, that some girls have been eating chicken feed (supposedly containing growth hormones) in order to "bulk up."

So we have a clear example of how an opposing "ideal" can also create self destructive behavior and lower the self esteem of those involved.

I've had problems with terminology too. I usually just say "bigger," but even that has problems: bigger than whom? A 150-pound woman may be bigger than we see in the media, but is actually smaller than the average American woman.

Plus-sized, queen-sized, etc. seem really condescending, "curvy" doesn't necessarily mean all-over weight (Scarlet Johannsen is often referred to as curvy, when she's very thin with a large chest)... difficulties abound and I have no answers.

How bout Average sized, since that is what most women who are refered to as "Plus" or Full" actually are!

Okay so I know this isn't the point... but besides all the reasons why Mo'nique is awesome, a lot of her stand-up acts can be really offensive. It bothers me that I can't remember exact quotes... but I know that a lot of what she said wasn't very pro-woman.

this is in response to ebony's comment, which is funny because i weigh 105 pounds and everyone does call me miniature. its gross. i agree with louveciennes.

I am all for reclaiming FAT!!
I call myself fat or, more often, big ‘cuz I’m fat and very tall. I’m just a big gal all around.

sondjata: These "happy to be fat" men and women soon find themselves with diabeties, high blood pressure and their related ailments.

In case you failed to notice, this is a THANK YOU post for showing women of all sizes. What it is not is a post lecturing fat people on their health – which is none of your business anyway. So, enough with the fat shaming, mkay? It is NOT cute.

plus-size really bothers me because it's one of those add-ons...like woMAN or feMALE. if it's plus-size, it seems like it means that it isn't the norm or that there is a normal size to begin with. the fact is, size matters way too much in how we perceive people so if we're going to make it a big deal anyways, why don't we make it a positive image and reclaim all these other words.

because on a personal level, i, for some reason, do not feel comfortable with the word fat (and i've been trying to reclaim it), how about thick or large or takes up space (and that's a good thing!)?

Would anyone be offended if someone called them "pleasantly plump"?

I don't think I would be.

well....besides wanting to rip Alexs a new one...I'd like to add my vote to the take back the word "fat" discussion... Fat to me is so much more appealing then "plus"...i also love it cause it really freaks people out. Call yourself Fat in front of people (without sounding negative/condeming) and no one knows what to say in response. It's pretty fabulous.

I am a woman of substance.

I like when people say "thick," like as opposed to thin. It doesn't sound out-of-place like "zaftig" or "rotund" and, I don't know, it doesn't feel like an insult. Just a description.

Shelby: I know what the post is. I can read. I have a problem with the use of an other extreme as a supposed balance to the thin obsession of "society." And I've seen it here on this site a number of times.

I am also disturbed because as stated, obesity and it's usual health problems cause serious problems in black communities which is a HUGE concern for me.

So please direct the "fat shaming" commmentary elsewhere, especially since just last week we had an episode of "conscious-eater shaming" here by people who "ought to know better".

Lindsay said: "In case you failed to notice, this is a THANK YOU post for showing women of all sizes. What it is not is a post lecturing fat people on their health – which is none of your business anyway. So, enough with the fat shaming, mkay? It is NOT cute."

If you were in health care, you might think differently. Especially when you have to get 2 other people to help you help an obese person transfer from a bed to a wheelchair using a sliding board because they lost a leg to diabetes.

I don't think the 500 pound woman we had to get a cherry picker to lift out of a plane during Hurricane Katrina evacuations felt particularly "voluptuous" on that day either. I'm sure she felt humiliated.

There are a bunch of health issues related to obesity. And if you smoke on top of it, you can call yourself whatever cute name you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you are in a high risk category healthwise.

sondjata:

Weight is not an indicator of health, period. You have no idea who has health problems and who doesn’t based on weight. But, you are determined to do that anyway. No one tells you that you are unhealthy based on your looks, but you are determined it’s the right thing to do to others. That, my friend, is fat shaming. But, of course you not fat shaming, you’re doing it for the fat peoples’ own good, you’re concerned, hugely. Guess what? Us fat folks neither want nor need your concern. Get over it and get educated. You can start here:

http://kateharding.net/ - Shapely Prose (click on the tab “Don’t you realize fat is unhealthy?”)

www.obesitymyths.com

www.naafa.org

I beg of you to actually read them because if you can’t see what’s wrong with making judgments about people’s health based solely on the appearance, you need it.

crapburger:

Ah, so not only do you know I’m unhealthy because I called myself fat, you also know that I don’t work in healthcare? Wrong on both accounts. You cannot determine someone’s health based solely on their weight, period. As a healthcare provider, you should know that. I refer you to the sites I listed for sondjata. Read them before spouting off nonsense again.

Nice strawWOmen with the 500 lb woman story (uh, does "HIPPA" mean anything to you?) and the smoking bit. No, really, nice try.

Crapburger is aptly named.

Enough with the red herring fatty who has to be airlifted to McDonalds, OK? I have never seen that person and that is not who we're talking about here. We're talking about the women in Essence magazine here. Did you see the picture of Monique at the top of the page? We're talking about her, and look... she's dancing. Nobody has to airlift her anywhere so lay off with the fake concern over people we aren't even talking about to begin with. OK?

Note to trolls: you are not Essence magazine's target audience. The world does not arrange itself entirely for your consumption.

Personally, I think we should just be called beautiful women. That's what we all are no matter our size.

I'm buying the magazine, though. I've never actually heard of it before.

My spontaneous answer would have been gorgeous, but I think voluptuous is also very appropriate. Rubenesque is IMHO the best (in Italian I would say felliniana).

What Renee said. There is more at work than simply "It's okay for black women to be fat." One aspect of it is racism, that black women are allowed to be a certain weight because they aren't even seen as attractive, or human, by many different groups in society.

Also, "I don't think I find her attractive because she resembles the stereotypical Mammy in any way." Nestra can you explain this further?

Mini-rant: I hate how they call the larger clothing section "Women's" and the smaller clothing section "Misses'." Ain't I a woman too?

Crapburger-

The fact that Mo'nique and a(n alleged) 500 pound woman being air-lifted are exactly the same to you, kind of shows what kind of hateful place you're coming from when it comes to weight.

There is a pretty clear difference between women who are kinda fat and those who are dangerously, morbidly obese. Can we at least agree on that much?

Xana-
Not to mention that the Misses section has the cuter, more stylish clothes and the Women's tend to have the frumpier, older-looking clothes.

I'd be glad to take back the term "fat," but the fashion industry is so in opposition.

I read a credible report that the average american woman is 5' 3", weighing 145 pounds. However, the petite shop in my mall is for anyone 5'4" and under. Therefore, the fashion industry thinks the __average__ woman counts as "short."

A 135 pound, 5' 4" woman shopping at that petite shop wears a large t shirt. Therefore, a woman ten pounds UNDER the national average is "large."

I, at one inch taller and 10 pounds lighter than the national average, am in fashion industry terms both short and fat.

So how do we determine who is "voluptuous?"

FLT, that's really interesting. You'd think someone that fits the "average" would be a medium but default. Although, isn't 145lbs technically overweight for 5'3"? Has the weight/height standard been changed in the last 50 years or so?

to Xana -- Your theory that black women can be seen as fat because they are seen as less than white women and not supposed to be attractive is a view that I have never even considered before. In a historical sense, I think that you are right, but I don't think that's entirely accurate. You look at women like Tyra Banks, Vanessa Williams, and Naomi Campbell and they are still seen as sex symbols, not because of their race but because they are gorgeous according to social standards. Queen Latifah, for example, is still seen as a sex symbol, but she is a plus size. Her wardrobe in movies and her covergirl modeling all point to the idea that this is a woman that men would like to have and women would like to be (if you want to break it down into that crude of a statement).
The more I think about it, however, the more that I see your point. Historically speaking, white women and Asian women were the "races" always seen as sex objects. So it sadly makes sense that they would be the ones in modern society to have to be stick thin in order to make it because that was what was seen as beautiful. If anyone outside of these two races wants to get in, they also have to adhere to that social standard. I'll talk once again of Tyra Banks who went into modeling being a very tiny model and only became a "plus size" (even though she's not) after she was already famous. So, I do see your point.
Oh this is a sad day for my mind... i didn't want to think like this... i hate society.

Yes, I'm making this all up.

http://win.niddk.nih.gov/statistics/

http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/dnpa/obesity/

The obesity myth website is promoting a book, so I view it as suspect. People who are overweight and obese would like to believe that it is healthy beause it 's a lot easier than losing weight.

Lady on plane weighed close to 500 lbs. It took four men to lift her down the aisle and into the cockpit so they could drive the cherry picker up and put her in a wheelchair on it. She was too large to carry down the steps. She wasn't airlifted! She also wasn't receiving any health care services, just being evacuated, so that's not a HIPPA violation.

And no, I don't come from a hateful place, and I don't think that this lady and Mo'nique are the same. But Mo'nique is overweight, and as a black woman she is already at a higher risk for diabetes. This doesn't have anything to do with whether you find her attractive or not (which I do).

If you look at porn made for straight men, you'll notice that there aren't any stick-thin models. All are fleshy, abundantly formed women who would never grace a runway at Milan. That's what most men find to be sexy. I feel like women are the ones who enforce this ridiculous beauty standard that you need to be a size 0 to be beautiful.

Oh crap. I never heard of Kate Harding until now. Conspiracy theory city.