The mainstream media seems confused these days. It appears that because Republican VP candidate Sarah Palin is a woman, she is also a feminist. And not just a feminist, but THE feminist - a sign that all is right in the world when it comes to gender equity. But how could that be, you ask? How could anyone paint Palin - whose policies make it all too clear that she's about as anti-feminist as they come - as feminism's second coming? Well, by pithy misleading headlines - that's how!
The Wall Street Journal: Sarah Palin Feminism
Townhall: Sarah Palin: A Liberated Woman
LA Times: Sarah Palin's 'new feminism' is hailed
NPR: Sarah Palin: New Face Of Feminism?
The New York Post: A Feminist Dream at the GOP
Even more interesting is that the reporters touting this Palin-as-feminist nonsense are people who pretty much know jack shit about feminism.
Take Wall Street Journal reporter Naomi Schaefer Riley, who writes that progressives should rest easy about Palin's candidacy because "most American evangelicals have wholeheartedly embraced the idea of women in the workplace." A radical feminist sentiment if there ever was one! But perhaps one should take Riley with a grain of salt, considering she's the same reporter who wrote that murdered NY college student Imette St. Guillen should have known better than to be out drinking at 3am. Victim-blamers aren't exactly bastions of feminist thought.
Karin Agness, who wrote the piece for Townhall, calls Palin a "success of feminism" and "truly a liberated woman." Agness is also the President of the Network of Enlightened Women, an anti-feminist college organization that lurves Elizabeth Hasselbeck and even (sigh) mocked a NOW conference attendee in a wheelchair on their blog.
Really, most of the "feminism" talk is coming from conservatives appropriating the language of the movement to push a ridiculously anti-feminist candidate. This, of course, is nothing new (cough, IWF, cough) and fairly transparent.
But what I find even more upsetting is the Palin/feminist talk coming from mainstream outlets who are demonstrating absolutely no knowledge of feminism. Take the Adweek article, for example, which says "Palin is a classic third-wave feminist, benefiting from all that came before her in terms of the women's movement..." So by this definition, any woman who has benefited from feminism is a feminist. So, all women are feminists? Uh, yeah.
So, please, esteemed members of the mainstream media - if you want to write about Palin and feminism, how about you get a feminist to do it? Or at least interview one of us for goodness sake - there's plenty of us around and we'll be happy to talk to you about what the movement is about. (Hint: It's a lot more than thinking any woman is a good choice for all women.)
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So using a constructed title such as "feminist" requires that the person holds to every single one of a set list of beliefs (as defined by who?), but identifying as a male doesn't require a y chromosome.
That's an interesting way of changing the rules to fit your own ideals, Jessica.
Huh? Nestra, I'm not sure what you're saying here. I'm not advocating any one feminist platform - and of course I don't think that there IS one. But I certainly don't think that women are feminists just by virtue of being women. So...I'm not really sure what "rules" I'm changing here. I'm just pointing out the obvious.
Unfortunately there is no way to police our own movement. Feminist generally don't agree on anything except the idea that we look at the world through a lens that sees the impact actions have on women.
There are women who call themselves feminists even though they engaged in racist, misandric, transphobic, homophobic, abilist, even misogynistic, etc acts. If we can't rip the label off of them, we can't ripped the label off of Palin.
Which, frankly, just makes me sad.
Here's a rare article that actually has something decent to say: The GOP Finds Feminism.
Palin serves the interests of women of her own class, a bourgeois feminist. She may seem attractive (politically) on the surface and engage many women supporters but srip away her "hockey" mom status and so-called plain speaking and she represents the interests of right-wing social conservatism and corporate capitalism ( her views on the Arctic make her an enviromental disaster), she is nothing more than a gun totin' warmongering anti-abortion creationist who does not serve the best interests of all women, she does not fight for equality for all women, or against oppression.
She is no liberator of women. She will actually be an unmitigated disaster for women along with warmonger McCain.
And it is no surprising that the media are calling her a "feminist" as indeed they don't really understand what feminism represents and just cos Palin comes across as a strong woman it must be feminism but it is a brand of bourgeois feminism based on individualism, nothing collective whatoever or about solidarity.
The male media commentators (and I wrote a post on this on my own blog http://harpymarx.wordpress.com/2008/09/05/sarah-just-another-rightwinga/) in the UK went ga-ga over Palin and reduced her to her physical appearance and objectified her. It was all about her sex appeal; from domimatrix of the Arctic (I kid you not) to a Mrs Robinson's character, some bloke's wet dream. It was all utterly politically crass and sexist.
The definition I use for the term of "feminism" is a doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men. I fail to see how Palin's anti-choice views fit the bill, I fail to see how her evangelical notions of a "traditional" family fit the bill either.
I find Palin to be very intriguing. She pretty much does and about face on her duties as a mother/wife as predescribed by her faith and upbringing by running for VP and being in government in general. BUT- she does these things so she can usher in their anti-woman and anti-feminist positions.
Welllll....even though I agree with the bulk of this article...I think any woman who WANTS to claim feminism...can. I mean there are pro-life feminists. And they have really different theories than me and I totally disagree with them. This Palin issue is a little different, but a very right conservative minded young woman who says she is feminist could be turned off when another feminist says that she isn't one. Hopefully her calling herself a feminist would encourage her to do a little more research on feminism. I don't think Palin is going to do this. It does upset me that Palin is being called one, because in my evaluation of her...she is a pretty patriarchal gal.
oh!press pass
Jessica, I believe that a lot of people think of her as a feminist because of her membership in Feminists for Life.
I have no problem calling Palin a feminist. Do I have serious, grave concerns about her policies? Absolutely. I do not support her, I do not think that her views are feminist. But the definition of what is feminist is personal and extremely subjective. Maybe some feminists are conservative. Not everyone has the same definition or interpretation of equality and justice. We have a right to criticise those interpretation, but I don't think we have the right to say that someone is or is not a feminist. I do not believe that we should make the label of "feminist" something that is a privilege, something you have to earn, something that means you must interpret certain things in certain ways.
I think that women - and all people - have the right to call themselves feminists, even if their views are not how we define feminism. We do not have a monopoly on truth. I think it's great that she's bringing feminism to conservative women, and I hope they embrace that term. It doesn't mean we can't criticize her views and actions as anti-feminist. What she wants to be called with regard to that is up to her to decide, and it seems that she has chosen to take on that mantle. And good for her.
I don't think it's "nonsense."
Some have mentioned that she may disembowel the term, make it meaningless. I think that's valid, but I think it
I hear what you're sayng MRAmbrose, and I'm certainly not into feminist policing. I don't think anyone here would claim to be the arbiter of all things feminist But this isn't about Palin calling herself a feminist - it's about the media and conservatives appropriating feminist language and ideals to push forward an anti-feminist agenda. And THAT I have to say something about.
RMJ, if you think Feminists for Life are really feminist you should check out Pandagon's series on the org.
Yup. If you don't mind if women die because you want to make sure they have that baby when they get pregnant, then you are not a feminist, no matter whether or not you call yourself one. I'm a feminist for life, too, but that just means I'll be one until I'm dead. It doesn't mean I am going to try to force women to have the babies of rapists.
She's trying to co-opt the term and redefine the movement, obviously. It's something that Schlafly wasn't evil or wily enough to do, but something Schlafly is praising her for. We have to fight hard to make sure she doesn't redefine and kill something that is this important. Jessica is right on, nestra. This goes beyond our slight disagreements within the movement. We are an accepting bunch of people, but there are limits when someone is stepping on the very things we're fighting for--agency for women.
If this country is so ready to accept and applaud feminism, they would have done it when Hillary was running. I can introduce myself as a ham sandwich, but that doesn't make me lunch meat. A woman with a job is not a feminist, unless you are a right-wing woman who thinks that getting a job makes you a radical.
I appreciate the link, Jessica. I will definitely check it out. I wasn't necessarily talking about Feminist for Life - a deeply problematic organization that doesn't support any traditional feminist goals - but Palin's tacit adoption of the label "feminist" through her participation in the group.
The implication in that linked piece that a woman standing up from her wheelchair means she does not need it is profoundly ignorant. Wheelchairs, canes, crutches, etc. are mobility AIDS. That is, they assist people in getting around under their own power. Using a wheelchair allows a person to extend the life in their legs and attend place like a NOW convention (which I'm sure requires a lot of walking and standing) which would otherwise be inaccessible.
I use a cane sometimes. Can I walk without it? Yes, but slowly, painfully and with a lot of falls. With my cane, I can get myself to class a work. People seem surprised when I walk to class with my cane but don't use it when I have to go up to write on the board.
Most people are unaware of how people with a wide range of disabilities use mobility aids.
I must admit Feminists for Life is a contradiction in terms. It is based on telling women how to control their own bodies and stifling choice. How can a woman define herself as a feminist yet deny and actively campaign to stop women controlling their own bodies?
Hmmmn.
Feminists are a pretty diverse group of people, it's true, but I think it's pretty safe to say that someone who has that little regard for repro rights, etc, is definitely NOT working towards real improvement in womens' lives.
Palin's appoinment terrifies me because no one is as good at discrediting and trivializing the concerns of women as other women. Because if she's a woman, then she must be able to talk with authority about the experiences of all women, right? Right?
Unfortunately there is no way to police our own movement. Feminist generally don't agree on anything except the idea that we look at the world through a lens that sees the impact actions have on women.
Has anyone seen/heard Sarah Palin self-identify as a feminist? One way we *can* hold the mainstream media to account on definitions of feminism is by pointing out that they've labeled someone with a political term they don't agree with . . .
I would say, however, in addition to looking at the world through the lens of "the impact actions have on women" we, as feminists, are also trying to better life for women and girls as a group. When you add that activism piece in, Palin seems not to care about making life better for women in general -- just (maybe) women in her own privileged position. So I think we can raise questions about her right to be called feminist. I'm not saying anyone can "police" the boundaries of a liberation movement (that seems like an oxymoron), but we can ask questions. We can always ask questions.
Ok some of you here might find what I am about to say offensive so I am apologizing now if I offend anyone.
First off imo, the reason SP (A woman with know dismal experience and no foreign policy experience) is so popular is because of you guys. I remember back during the democratic primaries you guys were attacking and smearing Obama like mad. During your smear fest of Obama you managed to label a guy who has fought for your rights even since the start of his career in public service as anti woman and the ultimate sexist. Hell, all the guys on the democratic side you were calling sexist (never mentioning the fact that the guys you were bashing over the head like Joe Biden who helped create domestic violence legislation to help women, are anything but sexist). Now because of your actions the disaffected Hillary supporters (PUMA for example) still call Obama sexist. Also, the fact that some women are voting for McCain and SP even though they are anti-women rights as you can get makes me wonder if they were really voting for Hillary because of her policies and not her gender. It boggles my mind that women who claim to be feminist still vote for McCain and SP, its not even logical. The right wing loons are capitalizing on our little fight during the primaries. When guys like Limbaugh, Hannity and Dick Morris were suddenly feminist during the primaries you guys should've known something was up (I mean come on, Dick Morris? lol you guys know better than that). The Obamaites were trying to tell Hillary to drop out so tensions won't get to strong but you guys refused to do so, now look you've caused. If McStain and Failin wins say god bye to your rights (I've seen this woman on videos, she is to the right of Limbaugh).
With that said, it is up to you guys to work with Obama and his supporters to help dig the democrats out of the hole you got us in, we only have 57ish days left. Obama is a smart guy, but he cant do it alone.
Be a good girl, now, and we'll fix the election via media and Diebold--wait, what have they changed their names to? Oh yeah, Premier Election Solutions--to give you the power you've been stepping on other women to get.
Ops typo is 2nd paragraph it should read:
"First off imo, the reason SP (A woman with dismal domestic experience and no foreign policy experience)"
I don't even want to mistakenly say SP has experience.
who here smeared obama, obama-ite? while there were different opinions on here, i'm pretty sure it was down the middle.
also, who the fuck is going to vote for mccain because they want hillary in office? that's the biggest media pipe dream since convincing america they want a guy in the bar ('someone i could have a beer with') to run the country.
and i'm definitely voting for obama and liked him better than hillary (mostly because of his organizing experience), but i think hillary did the right thing by staying in the race... dialogue is what drives a democracy or republic and to suggest the premature closure of discourse is just stupid.
anyways, palin's not a feminist... and it's not just because of repro rights, okay? there are feminists who oppose the right to choice, but support, um, education, health care, social supports for working mothers, equal pay and so forth - all things palin opposes (just look at what she's done as mayor and governor, okay?)
she's not a feminist and it's not about policing the movement. ronald reagan wasn't a black panther who just happened to support gun control and sarah palin is not a feminist who happens to oppose choice. she's a ruling class piece of shit who doesn't even support fiscal responsibility if it's not in her best interest (look at Wasilia's debt load before and after Palin, her support for two bridges to nowhere [one of which was later redacted], etc.)
ugh.
there's a lot of diversity among feminists... as there's a lot of diversity among christians. but, while there are christians who don't believe in the trinity, there aren't any christians who don't believe in god.
Obama-ite:
Start over. Just apologize for offending "anyone" and retract everything else. Then I'll respond.
Seriously, you are sure of all that you are saying. Absolutely sure. Let's not speak until you are sure you are right. Check everything you said. Double-check it. I want you to be sure so you can't take anything back when you get crushed by the weight of truth and decency. You have to be sure of your tone as well. No back-tracking. I don't have time for back-tracking.
Check the "you-guys" routine. You want to keep that?
The media are eating Palin up. Everywhere i go I hear idiots talking about they will vote for McCain because she is such a "hot-chick". They have her on CNN now (looks like McCain wrote her a new speech), she is the new celebrity.
I think you guys just signed over your rights, through your bashing of Obama during the primaries.
This is really depressing me. Americans are to stupid to see through the BS McCain and Palin are feeding them. Get ready for four more years of hell.
"I can introduce myself as a ham sandwich, but that doesn't make me lunch meat."
That's an awesome line, Manifestadestiny.
Oh and Manifest and I absolutely sure!
Well that's just rich, Obama-ite. Why don't you link to some examples of Feministing "bashing" Obama. The Feministing editors actually caught a lot of flack during the primaries for being too PRO-Obama. You obviously just stumbled upon this site, having no idea what we're actually about, and think you can get away with blaming us for Americans' hypocricy and stupidity re: Palin. Stop embarassing yourself by making ill-informed assumptions about us.
At minimum, a feminist should be someone who believes in equality for men and women, which includes the obvious things like equal pay. I would argue that running with someone (McCain) who has opposed equal pay would in and of itself be a pretty serious dent in any feminist credentials.
Chelsea Del Rio did a post over at the CA NOW blog called "Anti-Palin Does NOT Equal Anti-Woman!" on the flip-side of this particular media storm: http://www.canow.org/canoworg/2008/09/anti-palin-does.html
Obama-ite:
No you aren't. You haven't researched your claims, and you certainly haven't considered that you are trying to threaten people to vote for Obama. I don't think Obama would approve. You really need to take some time out.
I'm not talking about the site itself. I'm talking about the comments. I may not have been posting, but I read here from time to time. Some nasty things have been said here about Obama in the comments. I don't have time to go and look for every nasty (border line racist) comment posted here by people about Obama. And don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about.
Obama-ite - What the fuck are you talking about? That has to be the most pathetic, random, women-blaming comment I've read in months (and given the recent climate, that's saying something). Really, what the hell gives you the right to come on here and start throwing accusations around about 'you guys'? Not even your most basic wrong-headed facts are correct -- Clinton supporter here myself, but there were plenty of Obama supporters and voters at Feministing during the primaries. Are you just targeting any feminist blog you happen to come across with this crap?
anyone else here think Obama-ite is not even an Obama supporter and just wants to fracture the left in a similar way to what the MSM is doing?
let's just stop talking to this loser.
I hate when people act like by virtue of being a woman someone is feminist. It is just intellectually lazy. It ignores every contribution that as been made by women writing about what feminism means. By calling every woman a feminist no matter what her beliefs are, it dismisses everything from Gloria Steinem to Judith Butler as "chick stuff".
Here's yet another article along the same lines:
http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/09/08/bnewmark_0908/
lol...
All of you feminazis here can suck my cock. Palin is way better than Obammy and Hildabeast combined. She knows how to to be a real woman! No equal pay for equal work as it should be (Since women get pregnant), loves to be a mother, believes in God and knows how to treat her family. Palin is a real feminist. You all are just a bunch of angry women who are jealous of her because you can't get no man to pay attention to you because you are so ugly. Palin is the NEW IMPROVED form of feminism. Not to mention not bad on the eyes. You left wing idiots are so stupid, we played you good in the primaries buy getting you to let Hillary bloody up Obama. Now that he is weaken, he is Candy. A two for one, since now Hilldabest is to old to run in 2012 and even if she did Palin would destroy her. HAHAHA and look at B. Hussein Obama Osama's poll ratings on Gallup today, its over for you libtards.
NO B. Hussein Obama
NO Hilldabest in 2012.
McCain/Palin 08-2016!
I can't with tell McCain wins.
Now if you will excuse me, I will be going to other liberal/feminazi blogs to cause more dissent among you retards. Adios.
And "Obama-ite" backs out swearing, irrational to the end. And I haven't wasted any time spelling it out. What a great day!! I think I'll take a walk and get some fresh air, really appreciate my life.
um... "obama-ite"... no one fell for your bullshit, so please stop congratulating yourself... although i do appreciate you showing your true colors, so maybe people can get back to the actual conversation.
be well and i hope you find something constructive to do with yourself before you disappear into your own navel.
no one fell for your bullshit, so please stop congratulating yourself
Ewww…premature self-congratulation…this one can’t keep up with the conversation and uses the same, tired stereotypes (I think he got them all but the hairy-legged lesbian one). BORING…New trolls, please.
Hard to define feminism and who can/can't claim it, yes... However, I've always believed that sex positivity is one of the "founding principles" (to put it formally) of third wave feminism.
So to call Palin a "classic third wave feminist" is pretty absurd. Advocating for abstinence-only education is the absolute antithesis of being sex positive, IMO!
Sarah Palin is clearly not a feminist. But there is feminism going on here nonetheless. First, a career like Sarah Palin's is not possible without the achievements of feminism. Secondly, her political success will do more for women of all political persuasions than if she were a man with the same policies, positions on the issues, family situation, etc.
A strong liberal female candidate would obviously do more. But if Sarah Palin makes it into high office in this country, it's going to have a significant effect on traditional conservative Christian thinking about gender roles. That's worth something.
I just wanted to comment that I listned to most of that "All Things Considered" segment on NPR about whether Sarah Palin can be called a feminist, with Stanford professor Estelle Freedman (she wrote _No Turning Back: The History of Feminism and the Future of Women_), and Freedman seems to conclude that, no, mostly what the GOP is doing is just appropriating the feminist language and not actually embracing any large percentage of feminist principles. So the story did pose the *question* of "whether" Palin could be considered feminist, and Freedman does a little skirting about, never vehemently rejecting it, but she ultimately offers good evidence that conservatives are just trying to hijack what is and always has been fundamentally a liberal movement.
I can't speak for what's in Freedman's book; I haven't read it yet. But if she's anything in the Gerda Lerner vein of feminist historian, it's probably worth checking out.
Anna,
She does self-identify as a feminist.
Alas, the problem with the theory that all feminists are trying to make things better for female people as a group is that "better" depends on context. Eg, Many rad fems and I vehemently disagree on what better looks like wrt trans* persons. But we're all sharing the same label.
But if Sarah Palin makes it into high office in this country, it's going to have a significant effect on traditional conservative Christian thinking about gender roles. That's worth something.
I’m not sure what it’s worth. Palin likes to continually describe herself as just a “hockey-mom” (though only one of children played hockey). She’s said she, “like all good women,” set out to raise the “perfect family.”
I don’t think it will have any real effect on traditional conservative thinking on gender roles other than if a woman is going to work, well that’s ok as long as she still has the “perfect” family and looks hot while doing it – and, of course, acquiesces to the menz whenever called upon to do so. But, that’s what they expect from conservative career women now. I really don’t think much would change.
Sorry about the troll, folks. That's what I get for taking a couple hours off. ;) He's banned, but I'm leaving the last lovely "cock sucking" comment up - I think it's important to remember people's true colors. And the stupidity of the opposition.
I've read Freedman's book (one of the first books I read on feminism) and I liked it. I also like her point about how they are just using feminist language and not really accepting its principles.
What I don't understand is why can't we be heard?! We should be all over the media explaining how sarah palin is not a feminist. Simply because she does not support equality for women! no choice, no equal pay, no childcare, and no equal responsibilities at home (between a man and a woman), no ERA,.... If she was a feminist, she would support equal rights for women. But this is not the first time they have used a label to describe something that is exactly the opposite of that label to confuse people.
Like the lumber company that called itself something to the effect of "healthy forest group".... Or how George Bush was made out to be a champion for the environment when he was running the first time...there are many other examples.
We need to be heard more,... Can we please be heard more? Can we get a chance to explain this to more people clearly? We need a bigger audience.
Honestly, not only does Palin referring to herself as a feminist not bother me, but I see it as positive step towards majority acceptance of feminist principles. I hear so many politically right leaning women shy from a feminist label despite agreeing philosophically and practically in the ideal of equal treatment and rights for women (conservative women don't want to be paid less for their work, lose their jobs over child care issues, forfeit control over their finances when they marry, etc.) These basic principles get obscured with other liberal ideals. While I personally agree with the broader liberal agenda, I don't think that disagreement with them disqualifies someone from being a feminist. Who determines the defining views anyway?
Re: anti-choice feminists: I don't think being anti-choice is necessarily anti-feminist. Men and women get equal treatment - neither can choose murder another human (if you believe a fertilized egg is human.) I agree that it can be anti-feminist when forced childbearing used as a form of control.
"But, that’s what they expect from conservative career women now. I really don’t think much would change."
Well, ShelbyWoo, thirty or forty years ago the concept "conservative career woman" was an oxymoron. It was not an option available to conservatively-raised young women en masse, but only to exceptions and anomalies (Schlafly, for example). Now it's normal, as is clear from how you yourself use the term. That's no small change.
For example, I have a feeling that Sarah Palin as VP or prez would make it very difficult for Christian pastors and patriarchs and Sunday school pedagogues who have extolled and will have voted for her to convince their young girls and women of the relevance of Genesis 3:16 ("and your husband shall rule over you"), a passage still very relevant in traditional Christian circles. They will still try, but I think it will be harder post-Palin. "Um, Dad, does President Palin's husband rule over her?"
How would one answer that?
Not so with Hillary. For these people, Hillary is the enemy, the negative example, the cautionary tale, the path to be avoided.
I just read the parts with (anti-)Obama-ite I have to say THAT was hilarious!
(read sarcastically:)
Maaan, he totally messed us up maaaan... All the blue states have become purple now! We are SO confused,.... THAT guy is going places. McCain should hire him as a strategist.
Penelope –
Those changes that occurred for women in the past 30-40 years were not the passive result of the actions of a few conservative women. It was the blood, sweat, and tears of feminists that secured those changes for all women.
Yet, the idea that girls and women should be most concerned with finding a man to marry and having babies ASAP persists even though conservative women already have jobs and have had for years (most of co-workers are just such women). In their opinion, however, their husband and children, their looks, their demeanor must be their top priority – how they behave as women is more important than their careers. Palin is a perfect example. All I hear is how great she is as a mother, what a wonderful family she has. She's good-looking, she hunts and fishes (that one is for the menz, of course). Her actual career as a politician is a distant second to how she conducts herself as a woman. Palin herself has done nothing but encourage that idea.
They will still try, but I think it will be harder post-Palin. "Um, Dad, does President Palin's husband rule over her?"
How would one answer that?
Well, I don't think good christian girls are supposed to ask such things. But if one did pose that question, I don’t think it would be contradictory, in conservative Dad’s eyes, to say something like: ”She asked his approval before starting her career.” And, if he really wanted to spin it, Dad could also point out that she's only the VP and that the President, the "decider" as Bush would say, is a man. Just because a woman has a job, even a successful and powerful one, doesn’t mean she ‘s the head of her household and it certainly doesn’t mean she no longer has to submit to men.
That’s my whole point. There are many ways to spin Palin’s success so it doesn’t take precedence over how society thinks women should behave. Again, I don’t think it would be any great step forward for women, conservative or not, if McCain/Palin were elected - just a step to the side.
murasaki: what feminist principles does she adhere to, again? As mentioned above, she is the vp of a man who voted against protecting equal pay. So what else you got? It's called co-opting a label and redefining a movement, I repeat. *Sniff* Smell that? It's coffee. Time to wake up.
"I agree that it can be anti-feminist when forced childbearing [is] used as a form of control."
It /can/ be? You think you could be so kind as to deign to agree that it is not only anti-feminist but completely anti-woman? Do you think "feminist" and "advocate for forced childbearing" can co-exist in non-self-contradicting humans?
Oy.
shelbywoo, manifesta,
i'm not surprised by y'all's eloquence, but i am grateful for it.
yeah, i mean, really... the far right is no stranger to contradiction. for a group that's both "pro-life" and "pro-death-penalty", do you really think that justifying keeping women down with an anti-feminist woman as VP will be all that hard? get your head out of clouds.
I took issue with the blanket "Palin is NOT a feminist" too, but I'm not totally sure why I took issue, since I generally agree that most of Palin's stances on these issues aren't pro-woman.
There's something about insisting she's NOT a feminist, however, that strikes me as just as odd as the conservative push to insist she is (especially if its an attempt to attract female voters).
How do we define feminist? Isn't it a feminist idea to believe a woman is capable of running a state? Or, perhaps that glass ceiling was shattered so long ago we forget that her even holding the position she holds really was pretty radical as recently as 25 years ago (isn't it still pretty radical now?) I'm not defending her, I eat up as much anti-Palin stuff as the next person, I'm just trying to figure out why I'm bothered by feministing's declaration.
I do not think Palin is a feminist. In fact, I believe she is very anti-feminism. Just because she is a woman doesn't mean that she actually cares about other women.
She's not a feminist, she just plays one on TV.
Manifestdestiny: Well, Palin must think that women can be full participants and leaders in their communities, competent at effecting and administering the policies they believe in, that women can have it all (career, marriage, children), and that women having children out of wedlock should not be shamed. These are core feminist principles, at least by my definition of feminism. I suppose we would disagree.
Sorry for the confusion about “it” – I meant “it” to refer to anti-choice not forced childbearing, which is, of course, anti-feminist. We need to remember that while many anti-choicers are using their stance as a way to control women, some truly believe that a fertilized egg is a human being and I just don’t see how the fact that they cannot condone murder (from their point of view) automatically negates a feminist worldview.
I’m not trying to say that Palin’s policy positions are something that we should support. Many conservative policies (the very ones that the McCain/Palin ticket are recycling) hurt women, but I personally think the problem with their policies stems more from their faith in the free market/small government/succeed or fail on your own mentality than from an anti-woman agenda.
As long as it happens to be herself and her family getting ahead and not having to be ashamed--meanwhile, she can slash funding to programs that help pregnant teens, loves Abstinence-only sex-education policies, and blames Hillary for the sexist slurs that she received, saying that she needs to stop whining and be a better person.
Anyone with senses today knows that women can hold powerful positions. This is not a matter of belief anymore. It's reality.
Tell me how her platform, coupled with wanting to deny women abortion even in the presence of rape and incest, is not forced childbearing? She wants teens to get pregnant, obviously; she wants to give them no options to protect themselves against their sexual urges. And then she wants them to bear the consequences without abortion options or aid after the birth! You love repeating this murder meme, but you are arguing the position for those who have no real concern about the futures of young women and their dreams and whether or not they want to just move over and share their bodies with a posited sperm setting up shop and affecting the whole course of their lives. If it's in my body, the world of controllers can cross their fingers, but I must be ensured the final say, or I will know I am living in a fascist state and each day my spirit will wither away and my eyes will grow dead. Might as well start memorizing The Handmaid's Tale.
My uterus. If I don't choose what's in it, I'm being raped. If the state takes away my choice, it is raping me. My body's boundaries are my primal connection to life. If someone takes this away from me, maybe I'll appreciate the equal pay--if the day ever comes--but I'll always know I'm a sex-class, breeding slave, and somehow, strangely, the money I make isn't going to compensate for that.
Wow, it looks like anyone can be a feminist now! Can my turkey samich be a feminist?
Sarah Palin may be doing something that is feminist (leading) and may be enabled to do this because of feminism but that doesn't mean that she is a feminist. Are we this willing to be, well, PC and inclusive, that we will let someone who's beliefs are clearly against our interests to appropriate our language? Apparently, yes.
And I don't think that you can be anti-choice and a feminist--a feminist would acknowledge that while they may not like abortion that neither they nor the government has a right to interfere with what a woman wants to do with her body.
And can we NOT use the word murder when speaking about abortion? Abortion regards a blastocyst or embryo or, rarely, a fetus. Murder occurs between humans outside of a person's womb.
Something about labeling Sarah Palin as a feminist (or her calling herself that) reminds me of when "girl power" was in full force and our role models of girl power were women dancing around in tiny outfits and being "liberated" because they read Cosmo. Definitions of feminism are different but I don't consider Palin a feminist because I don't see her doing anything with the intent to benefit women, only hurt them. That said, she has applied feminist principles to a certain extent in her own life or she would not have assumed a position of political power. To me, however, that is not enough to make her a feminist. To me feminists care about the welfare of women. Conservatives are trying to create a new definition of the word "feminism" that will be "acceptable". That way true feminists can be viewed as extremists, radicals. or simply become "invisible" and when conservatives are called on their sexist shit they can play the "but we like feminists, just look at Palin" card.
Great point, Cicada Nymph. Feminists are not trying to be acceptable to the patriarchy. We are trying to make change.
I believe that calling women who say they're feminists and actively endorse nonfeminist views "not feminist" is usually a way to avoid holding them accountable for endorsing those views.
In this case, I don't believe this applies. Everything available to us about Sarah Palin shows that she actively opposes feminism. I'm completely comfortable with saying she's not a feminist and wish the media would not call her one. Positioning her as feminist is nothing more than PR.
And just being VP candidate isn't a feminist act. It's possible because of feminism, but lots of women who are not feminist benefit from feminism.
Note to Jessica: The reason Sarah Palin is called a feminist is because she considers herself a feminist.
The only anti-feminist view she holds, as far as we know, is that she's anti-choice. That's her religious view. You may not realize this, but there are many, many feminists who believe abortion is wrong. I know a bunch of them: they're Catholic nuns. I personally believe their view is incoherent and inconsistent with full feminism, but they don't. Or rather, they see pregnancy as a unique situation in which a woman's personal autonomy is temporarily compromised by the presence within her body of another person.
There is no evidence that Sarah Palin holds any other anti-feminist views. On the contrary, she is on record as believing in women's power and equality, as being grateful that she was raised to believe that gender was no barrier, and as saying that she is trying to raise her sons and daughters to think in terms of gender equality.
I don't plan to vote for Sarah Palin, but as a feminist it's incumbent on me to grant her the courtesy of attempting to understand her actual views instead of relying on cartoonish distortions in the media.
Violet Socks--read all the posts and then comment. You're a day late and a viable debate position short. She's got more than just being anti-choice against her. But good luck with the defense of a woman who wants to impose her religious beliefs on every other woman.
I am a ham sandwich, and I approved this message.
Some stupid idiot on a Facebook discussion board tried to say to tell us feminists that "I hope McCain can count on your vote now" and "you can't say Sarah Palin isn't a feminist, since she's a member of a group called Feminists for Life."
Oh yeah, because:
a) Calling yourself by a certain name automatically means you are something. So if I call myself European, that means I'm European even if I live in and was born/raised in the United States.
b) Even though Feminists for Life is consistent with the feminist platform on most other issues BESIDES abortion, Sarah Palin continues to tow the misogynist line on birth control, sex ed, and equal pay.