I am... underwhelmed.

Sigh.

Can't say I am impressed with this choice. It has so hype up...

Without knowing too much about Biden (I was a Kucinich supporter and by the time he dropped out it was clear either Clinton or Obama would take the nomination), I must say I was hoping for Dodd. He just seems like a genuinely good person, and though he's Catholic and thus doesn't support gay marriage, he gives great speeches about respecting homosexuals and giving everyone rights (which is a lot better than most politicians in this country). Also Dodd has been spearheading campaigns since forever to reduce the overwhelmingly white-male centrism of art in the Captiol, which he doesn't get much appreciation for and which makes me think he really does care about women and minorities.

This is the 3rd time I've felt really disappointed in this election (the first one I can vote in): first Kucinich dropped out, then Clinton didn't get the nomination, and now Obama has chosen a running mate who has a lot of the same policy-based flaws I fear he himself might have.

But, at least they're better than McCain...

I don't know whether to feel obnoxiously self-righteous that I still think all the people who during the primaries seemed to think the sun shined out of Obama's a$$ were wrong (myself, on the other hand, maintained both Clinton and Obama more flawed people and definitely politicians to comparable extents)... or merely, disappointed...

I bet my mom though, who was definitely pro-Clinton anti-Obama, and afraid Obama wouldn't do as much for women in the U.S. as Clinton would, is totally doing her self-righteous thing right now...

*sigh*

We linked to this post over at the CA NOW blog: http://www.canow.org/canoworg/2008/08/obama-picks-bid.html

I've been waiting all night for your thoughts on this. :D

I posted on my blog a few days ago about why I think Obama needs to choose a woman, or else he'll lose the election. And I think he just lost the election.

Here's what I said...

"Obama must choose a female running mate to secure a competitive position in November. ...A female candidate would be the best choice to both maintain a consistent message of change and complement Obama.

If he doesn't select a woman, it places McCain in a strategic position with the ability to win undecided moderates, women, and former Hillary supporters. If Obama doesn't, then McCain could choose a woman, certainly defying current expectations. This would signal to voters (perhaps falsely) a return to the maverick, bipartisan image of his earlier days. Undecideds could move to McCain's camp to follow this 'progressive,' loosely-identified Republican and his female VP. The move could quickly steal the spotlight away from Obama and allow McCain to win the election on the backs of the center, rather than the traditional strategy of drumming up the far right Republican base through vilification of minorities."

Biden just... does nothing for me. As a woman, as a feminist, as a voter in general. It's disappointingly inconsistent with Obama's overall message and Biden himself is, as you pointed out, such a mixed bag. Sigh.

Well, Obama is certainly losing his lead in the polls: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html#polls

Thanks for the quick analysis, Ann.

I have to say, I'm also underwhelmed. Not that I expected to be overwhelmed by the pick, but Biden really rubs me the wrong way. He gets all this attention from Democrats for being a straight talker. All I see is a bit of a moron, who not only doesn't think before he speaks, but also that he has a lot of really dumb beliefs. Since when did not thinking before speaking become a virtue?

And this common narrative of Biden as being strong on foreign policy irks me as well. Great, chair of foreign relations committee. Doesn't seem to have given him any good ideas about it. His three-state solution is a joke. Let's look at how dividing up conquered nations based on religion worked for India and Pakistan. Why are Biden's and McCain's "experience" on foreign policy supposed to be so good, when they've clearly given them both some idiotic notions?

Whatever. Nobody would've really made me happy, because all these politicians are jackasses in the long run. Just call me jaded, but electoral politics make me nauseous.

On the other hand, I do sort of have to agree with another sentiment I've heard, which is:

If a significant number of American women concerned about "women's issues" wind up voting for McCain so that he wins the elections, maybe they deserve what they get. Americans have such a strange way of understanding electoral politics compared to much of the rest of the world... I don't think it's overstating things to say they /do/ make decisions for stupid reasons.

I'll tell you one thing I'm pretty worried about though is the Presidential and Vice-Presidential debate. I don't think Obama is so good at the debate thing, not as good as Clinton was, and if Biden is known for sticking his foot in his mouth, well... damn.

You know, I always got the impression that Biden absolutely hated Obama. And maybe he does.

I would have liked either Sebelius or Richardson. But I guess Biden is alright. When all is said and done, we do have a two party system so you can get behind Obama/Biden or McCain/whoever.

He'll be a pretty good attack dog and probably say cool things like "America deserves a president who knows how many houses he owns." I imagine he'll also be the guy who takes the right to task after the the election as Vice President.

He might not support public funding for abortion, but were we really expecting that any time soon anyway?

I'm with the underwhelmed crowd.

This just reaffirms for me that expatriatism is the way to go. I didn't sign up for this circus--out I'm outta here ASAP!

and offcourse, the McCain camp is now claiming that Obama is indeed inexperienced because otherwise he wouldn't have picked someone so experienced...

Far as I know, when you want the best results, you take all the most experienced people you can get, wheter you yourself are experienced or not.

I'm in the middle. I do think it's important to note that Joe Biden did author the Violence Against Women Act, and while his Senate website exaggerates the reduction of DV and rape that has occurred since the passage, its still an important piece of legislation.

At least Senator Obama didn't go with Bayh or Kaine. Either of those would have been disastrous.

I'm kind of surprised you linked to that shoddy blackhippychick blog. Obama's half-brother-gate is pretty much a non-story considering the two have only met a couple of times and the brother himself said he's happy where he is and resents being used as a political tool by the right.

Anyway, I'm trying to learn more about Biden before forming an opinion, so thanks for posting this.

Meh. I'm totally underwhelmed by this choice but I'm not surprised after being underwhelmed by the video here http://www.feministing.com/archives/010510.html

Now I'm just even sadder that Senator Clinton won't get the nomination.

From an outside perspective I have to look at this two ways:

1. Biden's not overly impressive about anything except for his long-term experience and foreign policy awareness. He certainly doesn't inspire as many people on the left as Obama, and is a pretty big foil to Obama. With that said though,

2. Joe Biden is running for vice president, a position that usually involves little to no power. I don't see him advising Obama on matters of abortion, and he seems pretty much like a foreign policy adviser. He also really helps Obama even out the ticket.

I predicted Biden weeks ago and this is no shock. Sometimes a candidate has to choice the VP who gives them the best shot at winning, in this case Biden.

Surprised you couldn't find a better representation of that lingering resentment towards Biden, then.

While Katheleen Sebelius would have been a wonderful match for Obama, both in policy and perception, Obama could have done much worse with Kaine or Bayh as a running mate. Joe Biden has never been a favorite of mine (yes, I have favorite politicians- as a political science student they’re my celebrities); but I think he’s going to be a good fit for the VP candidate. For a few reasons:
-His foreign policy experience is unmatched. Right now, in the shit hole of the war in Iraq and John McCain singing about bombing Iran and reinstating the draft; voters need to see the Democrats as having an solid understanding of how we can end the war without Iraq crumbling to the ground in the process.
-Biden is the hardass that the Obama campaign needs right now. With McCain’s campaign being based on little more than attacking Obama, the Democrats need someone who is willing to fight back just as hard (albeit in a more tactful manner), and let the McCain campaign know that we’re not going let them run over us. My only hope is that Biden will take a few tips from Obama’s people as to how not to put his foot in his mouth.
-Obama’s campaign is about changing the institution of the American government and what is better than a politician who has spent 30 some years of his life entrenched into the system, but who still knows that change is needed and is willing to help. Changes in the way the government is run are not going to be done successfully, if at all, if there is not a clear and precise understanding of the way things go in the failed system. Biden has this experience and can aid in the transition into a system that works for the people without making the country fall about at the seams. Obama knows how important it is to get this right so that the country can once again be legitimate in the eyes of the world, and most importantly in the eyes of it’s people, and it’s not going to happen without the help of someone with as much knowledge of the way the system works than Biden.

I know Biden’s stance on choice isn’t the greatest, but I don’t think he was brought into this campaign because of that. VP nominates are typically brought in for a few select issues and reasons, not for the overall records and stances, like a Presidential nominee. Biden can fill those spaces in the campaign that Obama needs him too. As for his record on choice, let’s just be happy he isn’t going to be Secretary of Health and Human Services.

I keep forgetting Biden is a Dem. The reason for that is he snuck an anti-drug bill into the Amber Alert Act in 2003, and of course everyone thought it was a Republican who did it. I made a whole documentary on that controversy, and yet to this day when his name comes up, his political party doesn't register to me automatically. Maybe it's cuz I can't tell Dems and Repubs apart anymore. anyway here's the link to the documentary and the bill in 2003:
http://leshengliu.com/Generation%20E.html

afharbison,

Before you posted, I had started to think in the same way anyway.

Biden probably isn't going to have tons of power, and as less of a figurehead than Hillary Clinton, may be more willing to get in line behind the presidential candidate/president where conflict over beliefs is concerned.

The Republicans will totally be able to use some of the stuff Biden has said against Obama.

Either way, dangit, I hope Obama wins hope Obama wins hope Obama wins.

I love seeing people look at this critically, and I love reading that people are reserving an opinion until they are more informed on Biden.

I am not on the fence about this, though- I am absolutely thrilled! I think Biden is the best one out there for the VP job right now, and I have an enormous amount of respect for his career. I think he will balance out the ticket in an entirely positive way: he has no tolerance for uniformed double-talk that is so often fed to us through media (such as Fox News) or individuals on Capital Hill (such as McCain) and fills in many of Obama's potential weaknesses.

There are several issues that do seem worrying (that I am not worried about) - Biden has a reputation for putting his foot in his mouth, or for being long-winded. I see these as two parts of a whole: if you hear something that is out of context to the rest of his speech, it can be construed in a negative light. This is very true of his comment on Obama, made at the beginning of his own campaign for presidency - this was not meant to be a racial slur, but a comment on how "clean" another young senator's politics are, and how he respects that. I have to disagree with the comment Tiggrrl posted, disappointed he did not chose a woman as a running mate. I think it would have ultimately weakened the ticket, putting it TOO far to the left. This election is about change, something most people want and many more of which are in trepidation. Someone like Biden is comforting with his working-class background, loving family life, and long career history.

I think Biden makes the ticket have more depth (a criticism the McCain camp was making of Obama). Biden is Roman-Catholic, yet supports abortion. He respects the need for preserved natural resources and alternative energy. He has been in office, and working on the international level long enough to essentially grow up next to what are now world-leaders. I feel Biden has demonstrated time and again that he is able to think critically and knows how to navigate the murky US politics. Obama, in an interview detailing what he was looking for in a VP, said

I have only recently read about his wife - and though it was just a blurb, I think we can all look forward to Jill Biden being a glowing presence along with Michelle Obama's shine.

ugh, i am so bummed out about this. i've been secretly hoping/holding out for a "My VP is gonna be... AL GORE" or "...Dennis Kucinich" or "...SUPERWOMAN!" or anything along those lines. I've been underwelmed by Obama during this whole process, and never really understood exactly why I was. I suppose deep down I knew he'd do something like this. *BIG HEAVING SIGH* The VP nom can turn out to be good for us, right? RIGHT???

(this post is rather inarticulate, etc because i'm lacking coffee.)

Ugh! Hillary didnt get elected because the media was more obsessed with her boobs than her politics and that proved distracting to the public. Now we have Obama (which I'm not technically against) who chooses Biden! Stupid, stupid, stupid! Gimme a better one!

Yeah, I still hope Obama wins, but I WANTed Hillary!!

EEK~I thought he would at least pick some awesome lady... so so sad!

Here is my conditioned thinking as Native American...he's at least gotta have the white man to back him up...

I'm sure it will all be "over looked at" by the time this is finished, but I remember hearing him speak during the Clarence Thomas nomination and he was not happy with the situation or the nominee. If I remember correctly his comments were well thought out and repectful of women.

The most important thing is that Obama and his running mate are elected in November. Us radical feminists are not a group he really needs to worry about defecting to McCain, are we?

jane commented at August 23, 2008 2:31 PM: "Us radical feminists are not a group he really needs to worry about defecting to McCain, are we?"

Directly to McCain, I bet not!

Meanwhile...

As the U.S. federal government is structured in 2008, McCain will mostl likely win the presidency unless one other candidate wins more Electoral College (see http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/ ) votes than he gets. He probably can't lose to a group of candidates who each individually won less votes than he did but together won more votes than he did (see http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/faq.html#270 ). He can't lose to "None of the Above" either.

How likely is it that voting for a 3rd party candidate in this election will help someone get more Electoral College votes than McCain gets?

How likely is it that not voting in this election will help someone get more Electoral College votes than McCain gets?

For that matter, how likely is it that voting for Barr will help someone get more electoral college votes than Obama gets?

Meanwhile, suppose the structure doesn't change and Cynthia McKinney comes close to getting more Electoral College votes than anyone else in 2012 or later (it could happen! Jesse Ventura was a 3rd party candidate when he ran against a Democrat and a Republican for governor of Minnesota and won!), while staying in the Green Party and without significantly changing her policies.

How many of the people who currently prefer her would still prefer her and vote for her?

How many of the people who currently prefer her would accuse her of selling out and not deserving their votes if she gains that much of a chance of winning the election?

It seems to me that anything a candidate does to gain some votes will lose some other votes, so the trick is to figure out how to gain more votes than you lose (and to not lose a ton of votes for the sake of losing a ton of votes for the sake of gaining a few votes from the anti-popularity crowd, BTW).

"Us radical feminists are not a group he really needs to worry about defecting to McCain, are we?"

The media would certainly say we are ...

Mina, your post confused me.

Care to take another look and break it down for us?

I think what Mina meant to say was this: if Obama alienates the traditional democratic base of voters by not involving women in the process or moving too far to the center he risks losing voters who would traditionally heavily favor his party.

They may not switch over to McCain, but that they don't vote at all, or vote for a third party candidate, could be enough for McCain to win.

The point is that with any political posturing there's a trade-off. In attempting to court the center Obama risks losing people on the far left, or in certain demographic groups. However, this is true with any political campaign.

In this case, though, the trade-off may be worth it if it can reinforce Obama's foreign policy and experience positions, two places where he is extremely weak. If it works he has a chance to pull ahead with voters in the center who care about foreign policy and use experience as a barometer. If it fails he will have alienated some of the party faithful and people in the center won't care about his VP choice.

The reason why Obama built up so much hype around his veep choice is because he wants EVERYBODY to know who Joe Biden is and exactly what Biden will contribute to his campaign.

It's a savvy, but risky, gambit. It'll be fun to see how it plays out from a poli-sci standpoint.

I have no problems with this. I might not agree with his voting record 100%, but he was actually my first choice for president. Quite frankly, Obama needs a more middle of the road politician to counter what many view as his extreme liberal voting record. I find it funny that the McCain camp is already commenting on the negative things Biden has said about Obama in the past. To me it just proves what Obama has said from the beginning; that he wants to be like Lincoln and pick people that don't always agree with him. It proves he is willing to listen to others, and not just surround himself with "yes men". The Republicans also commented on how Biden has complained about Obama's lack of foreign policy experience. Doesn't choosing Biden show that Obama is looking for somebody who IS experienced? Good on him, I say.

I'm delighted by the pick. More so for his potential ability to get through important, critical leglislation than with every bit of his personality or his campaigning.

Biden's role in passing VAWA was really spectacular! I had the opportunity to research the legislative history of the bill and was struck by Biden's intelligence and commitment in making sure that VAWA not only paid lip service to DV but created concrete ways to save women's lives.

I have had the opportunity help undocumented women abused by their US citizen spouses. Because of VAWA, these women could begin new, safe lives away from the men who had raped, beaten, and attempted to kill them. VAWA is about the only development in recent federal policy I'm proud of. And Biden was critical to it.

Biden has his share of annoying attributes and ability to say insulting things to his allies. But once Obama gets elected, there is no one I'd rather have in the executive branch making sure that Obama's rhetoric is translated into concrete, positive legislation. I think that Biden could really work with Republicans (who will probably have more than 40 seats and therefore be able to filibuster anything they want) to get realistic legislation through.

Also, its worth pointing out that Biden is within the mainstream of US Catholics, who generally DO NOT share the views of the reactionary leadership. Most US Catholics use birth control, do not believe abortion should be criminalized (which is very different from saying it is morally correct), and defend the dignity of gay and lesbian people. The many Catholics who are deeply committed to fighting poverty, racism, and inequality should be excited.

davenj commented at August 23, 2008 3:30 PM: "I think what Mina meant to say was this: if Obama alienates the traditional democratic base of voters by not involving women in the process or moving too far to the center he risks losing voters who would traditionally heavily favor his party.

"They may not switch over to McCain, but that they don't vote at all, or vote for a third party candidate, could be enough for McCain to win."

Pretty much, but I was thinking less about Obama risking losing this election than about us risking McCain winning this election...

"I am... underwhelmed."

I am this too.

I agree with Mina (and Nerdypants) on our choice (and his).

Still I am underwhelmed.

Biden represents a very "safe" co-pilot. Its more in comparison to McCain's running mate, Romney, that you really begin to feel moved towards the polls in November.

so much for change

Obama really needed someone with heavy foreign relations credentials to run with. I can't think of a woman, other than Hilary Clinton (who after a bruising, personal and very nasty primary season, would not be an easy choice for Obama), who is a native born American who would fill this bill. Does anyone on this board have any ideas?

I feel like I am going crazy. I just cannot believe that with all the females in govt and politics and majority of the population, there is not 1 female out there that BO could have picked as his running mate. I will still vote Dem, and sure JB's record is OK but this is the most dismal end to an exciting year in politics. Wind really out of my sails and I can't even rally my even more disgruntled friends who may abstain or go Republican on me. I feel it's the 1970s all over again, surrounded by boys club. Boys who shared our views on everything except power to females. I am kind of dreaming of a riot at the convention. I don't need catharsis, I need recognition of women in leadership.

I am pleased with this choice. As a feminist, the most important thing to me right now is that Obama win this election. Polling shows that people's biggest concern with him right now is his lack of foreign policy experience, and Biden is great for that. Sadly, even if this is unfair, I agree with BalletBoy that no prominent woman who would want the VP job lends the same national security gravitas as Biden. Is Biden ideal for feminists? Probably not. But nothing looks worse than losing this election, so I am happy with this choice. Also, I think it is unfair to say that since he picked Biden Obama won't actaully create change. The VP is almost entirely a reflection of who helps get elected, not what policies will be enacted once elected.

I've always liked Joe Biden, so I was really pleased with this choice (though I was also rooting for Kathleen Sebelius). On top of the obvious foreign policy credentials, I totally agree with kmg55057 that he would help Barack Obama navigate Washington to get realistic legislation passed. I also think his off-the-cuff manner is the shot in the arm that Obama needs right now. As other commenters have noted, he's going to be serving mostly as Obama's attack dog, so his positions on specific issues are not quite as relevant - though overall I didn't see any major red flags in his record (I'm combing through http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/joe_biden.htm). All of the other names bandied about (other than Biden and Sebelius) were much more centrist/conservative Democrats, which would have definitely raised huge questions about what the direction the Democrats were heading.

I would just like to say...we need to vote for Obama regardless of his vice-president choice if we want the U.S. to possibly turn around. It scares me to think that we might have to endure 4,8, or 20 more years of the current regime. Although at one time or another I thought McCain was the lessor of Republican evils he has fallen in-line with Bush in order to make it where he is now. We can't loose sight of the possibility that he may win and we have to fight for change. Whether or not you fall 100% in-line with Obama and Biden, your far more likely to accomplish your goals with them in office. No more vying for only one goal, fight for the collective in order for your goals to be seen as a possibility.

Hillary Clinton will make a superb Supreme Court Justice.

I can't say that I really expected Biden to be a strong guy on women's issues, but I didn't expect him to be this disappointing.

I guess that for many of the people on this board, there will be some nose holding as they punch that hole on the ballot, because I really don't think that McCain is even comparable to either of the two men heading the Democratic ticket.

I'm surprised that people so seriously expecting a female candidate, because (as Ann pointed out) Sebelius was a serious outside shot (though I still thing that she's one of the best Obama surrogates) and Hillary Clinton, realistically, created alot more problems then she solved.

These are two fantastic female politicians, and I have alot of respect for them, but I didn't think they were smart moves, politically.

I realize (and this complaint has come up with a few of my friends who are far more into the feminist movement than I am) that the feminist voters are taken for granted by the Democratic Party, but the truth is, I'm much happier with a VP that I believe will allow Obama to win, because he's looking to be the next president of the United States, not Joe Biden. At least, not yet. (though, at his age, probably not in 8 years either)

I was rooting for Sebelius, but understandably she doesn't bring the foreign policy experience that seems a pre-requisite this election cycle. When Biden's in the zone, he's in the zone. When he's not, he's a friggin gaffe machine. So I'm a little worried, but hopeful.

From a purely electoral perspective I would've liked to have seen Bayh picked. With BO's pull on NE Indiana & Bayh's long standing in the state, I think they could've turned it Blue. Alternatively, Kaine might've guaranteed a pick up of Virginia.

I think Biden was a really good safe choice for Obama. He's old, white, male, and not too liberal. He's got lots of experience, especially in areas that Obama is lacking, and he's not a wingnut.

I'm not creaming my panties over him, but I think he's a decently good pick.

PJ - I completely agree.

I can imagine why he'd appeal to more centrist "common American" democrats though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1op8vwF5UA

Especially men who are concerned about Obama not being "strong" enough.

This is kinda nice too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XberX_t-WvI&NR=1

You know what these two men have in common?

I think they'll both appeal to voters on the personality front. Which, frankly, is something Americans seem to care a lot about (look at how Bill Clinton was so popular originally, and then how "I'd like to have a beer with him" Bush beat "stiff" Gore and Kerry, and Hillary Clinton was criticized for seeming cold). Both these guys come across as kind of personable on t.v. Obama will appeal to more liberal liberals, Biden more centrist ones. Do you think this was exactly the kind of thinking that went into this decision?

One of my teachers has a relative who works in Bidens office andfrom what I understand, he's kinda crazy.

Ah well. I was hoping Obama would pick someone who was good for him, politically speaking, as he absolutely cannot lose this race and he delivered on that. So I'm happy.

I get frustrated when people instantly say things like, "So much for change," just 'cuz he picked a white dude. Yes, that the norm, but are we so sour that it's our way or no way? I'd love to see a woman VP -- it would be my first choice. But this is politics and change is slow. Let's celebrate our first black nominee of a major party in the general elections and accept that more change will take more work and time. Yes, the media was sexist and, yes, there was bias, but let's not attribute the whole of Clinton's loss purely to these things - why victimize her to that degree? I voted for her, but I'll admit she made her goofs like any other politician, specifically with getting caught up in fabricating glamourous tales (though that's not the biggest issue, it sure was a goof, okay?) and making racist word-play remarks about Obama (opponent or not, let's not play into racial hostility).

As for Biden, I just kinda shrugged and thought, "Eh." He's not dazzling, which is fine. He woman-friendlier than other candidates who were up for grabs.

I'm not disappointed, but know very little about the Anita Thomas hearings, though what I've read just recently gives varying opinions on what his position really was.

I think Obama needs to be elected. Most women are already decided, they either are going to vote for him, or they aren't. The youth vote is really untested, and race will be the only reason he does not get elected — whether anyone wants to believe so or not.

A Roman Catholic White male with a large mouth, decent foreign policy experience, at times appearing politically incorrect (if not a total bigot), is what the campaign decided they needed to get Obama elected. I think they are right.

I couldn't agree more with Tara K. Yes, Biden doesn't reflect change as much as a women VP but lets not forget OBAMA IS THE CHANGE CANDIDATE. Obama does have one of the most liberal voting records in Congress.

See that Yellow Dog over there beside the road. If he were the Democratic Candidate for president I would vote for him just so long as he is a good Democratic Yellow Dog.

Because any good Democrat is better for women, working people and minorities than any Republican alive today.

Republicans are good for rich white elites. they are loathsome bigots, misogynists and racists who oppress working people to exploit them for the rich. Most Republicans have all the morality of Pinochet and hate women, LGBT folks and anyone with a skin color other than white.

This is why I tend to vote the straight Democratic ticket. Yes when I was young and foolish I some tines wasted my vote on parties with zero chance of winning and helped elect Nixon as a result. When Nixon won in 1968 we were deceived into thinking that the Vietnam War was the most important issue and as a result America slid into a form of Fascism.

I have got to wonder if they mean experienced as in "old, white, male". Everything else must be inexperienced. That is the vibe i'm getting.

I want to know if this is as bad as it looks. If the Obama/Biden ticket will screw us over too, maybe less than McCain but still some. Does it even matter now if Obama is 'black'? I really think Obama needs someone who is strong and doesn't back down when getting into a fight concerning something as important as reproductive rights. He seems to be catering to the wingnuts more and more and that scares me eventhough I don't live in the USA.

I'm with SuzyQ on this one. Biden isn't ideal, and neither is Obama, but they're a hell of a lot better than anything Republican.

If McCain and his putative running mate, Romney, get in, here is what feminists have to look forward to:

- A continuation of the gag rule.

- The continued influence of Dominionists and other right wing Christians on public policy, particularly reproductive freedoms and science education.

- The appointment of at least one, and possibly as many as three, anti-choice Supreme Court justices. That not only means the end of Roe v. Wade, it probably means the eventual end of Griswold v. Connecticut as well.

- The continued pandering to the oil industry and destruction of our natural resources.

- A trophy wife whose own husband called her a "cunt" and a "trollop" as First Lady.

- A President who cheated on his first wife with a woman young enough to be his daughter, and then called her a "cunt" and a "trollop" because she uses too much makeup for his taste.

- Continuation and probable expansion of every single misogynistic position taken by the Reagan, Bush I and Bush II administrations.

Somehow, punishing Barack Obama for the audacity of defeating Hillary Clinton and then not undermining his own position by throwing her a sop isn't worth the above, at least to me.

McCain's actually the trophy in that relationship.

I will be the first to admit there is no one Obama could have picked that would have made me happy. I am too much of a Clinton supporter to really want anyone else, but if it was Clinton I would be upset about her having to play second fiddle. That said, Joe Biden was definitely not who I was hoping for. This just strengthens my fears that Obama isn't as liberal or as big of a supporter of women's issues as he has implied during the campaign. This just seems like him swerving to the moderate position now that the primary is over. That was one of my favorite things about Clinton, she had been in politics so long I felt confident I knew which issues she would take an unwavering stand on. But unfortunately, it seems I have no other option but to grin and vote for my second choice.

Ellid, I agree completely! As a self-proclaimed hard core leftist feminist, I don't anticipate ever getting to vote for a Presidential or Vice-Presidential candidate who completely lines up with my beliefs...and that includes Hillary. I was a bit disappointed after the primary, but I think an Obama/Biden ticket will be a strong one. I know that McCain could actually be worse than Bush on women's rights and I would take just about anyone before that.

Also, in regards to all this discussion of Sebelius, I feel I have to bring a local perspective. Kathleen Sebelius is a wonderful woman and a fantastic governor, but she would do absolutely nothing to strengthen the ticket. All over the KC newspapers for the last 6 months, people who voted for her for Governor have been writing letters saying that they absolutely would not support her as a VP candidate. She would not be able to carry her own state for Obama and she is too unknown around the country to garner any Republican support elsewhere. She brings no national or international experience and I think the "Hillary supporters who might vote McCain" (who I don't believe actually exist outside the Republican media machine) could potentially be more perturbed by Obama choosing a woman who has so significantly less experience than Sen. Clinton.

Also, I have worked in three positions over the last 5 years that were funded under VAWA and I hope that there is an end right now to anyone criticizing Biden on this front. We have been at risk multiple times under the formerly Republican controlled Congress of losing VAWA funding and Biden fought hard to re-pass it. It is one of the most successful federal programs for its actual outcomes for women and I think he deserves a great deal of thanks from us feminists for being a champion on this.

One more thing related to Biden's stance on choice - he has been endorsed by the Planned Parenthood Action Fund for his Senate seat, which means that the national and the local Delaware action fund boards had to agree on that. I know this doesn't mean he's perfect on choice, but it does say something.

I agree with many of the savy remarks on Biden's record, etc. above, so I will address something that may seem lightweight. That is the "cool" factor--Obama has just negated his image as "aware" (although it may be written on his DNA) by choosing Biden. Biden is famous for making sexist remarks on a daily basis without knowing it; he has also made racist and homophobic remarks. He comes across as not resilient or responsive as times change and awareness rises.
When the two stand together on a stage, Obama's "cool" is visually erased. Next to the bulldog from another generation, Obama looks like a slightly-embarrassed-but-resigned, smaller, young nephew trying to look respecting of his uncle; and erasing his own aura in the process. One does not see the autonomous, refreshing guy. I wanted hillary, but I thought if this was really something new, I might not feel as reluctant to vote for Obama as i will in nov.
how long?

I'm disapointed. I was hoping he would pick a woman as his running mate, but I guess I'm not surprised.

I'm still awaiting Obama's promised "change". I guess change = old, white, straight male vp.

Hi,

I read feministing and I basically signed up to comment on this. I'm a young black feminist who is totally pro Obama. I want him elected so badly.

But last week I realized that I would be fine either way. I was born and raised in Europe, and have citizenship there and residency here. I'm a pro choice Christian who will hopefully never need an abortion BUT if I did, my upper middle class parents would fly me home and I'm sure my top notch healthcare would treat me well. Did I mention that I am articulate, extremely well educated and come without all the baggage of African Americans? I'm also straight straight straight.

What's my point? I'll be fine in McCain's America. I will. My life is not on the line for this. I'm not getting foreclosed on, my education loans are not being revoked, my family are not going to starve, I'm not even a Muslim so I (probably) wont end up in Gitmo! I'll marry a guy, and people will invite me to parties. I won't be discriminated against for my sexuality. At worst I'll be a token, at best I'll actually have power.

So why should I even care? Because I thought feminism was supposed to be about collective action. I thought it was about giving a voice to the voiceless. Are you really all feminists? It seems like you only care about the white middle class feminists who want to feel like someone is representing them. What about the people whose lives literally will be shaped by this election?

It seems like Roe v Wade all over again. Middle class people get what they want and the Hyde Amendment puts the poor in their place.

Obama needs to win. Biden will help him win. If you want him to lose to make you feel like he is more 'honest', I'm sorry, but you don't understand the problems facing America. I just despair because Republicans will get behind McCain but Dems will find any excuse to throw Obama under the bus.

How can you look at Biden and feel underwhelmed? This ISN'T about him. Turn your attention to where is should be - the country and the Republicans. If you don't feel angry then just go vote for McCain. Because it seems like if Obama wins it will be in spite of his 'supporters'. I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh or even divisive but I feel so frustrated. I've basically quit my feminist groups and stopped donating to feminist causes. I just don't know what feminism is if it doesn't involve putting the (more) feminist president in the White House. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel when I read articles like this. And as we fight amongst ourselves, the rich white man takes power AGAIN.

Grrr, I just feel so sad.

I've just read that through and I'm sorry if it comes across as accusatory but I think that if we are honest, we are probably a little conditioned to be much mroe critical of the young black guy than the old white guy. McCain calls his wife a c*nt and he's just being one of the boys. But Obama picks a running amte with foreign policy experience and a good record on women's issues but it's not good enough. Jesus Christ himself would nto be good enough for the Dem base methinks.

Very few people here have said they would vote for McCain. Most say they will still vote for Obama, albeit reluctantly.
But a bigger question about women's role in society has been raised by this election and may call for some action. I am among those who had been a very active feminist, but become more complacent in recent years in the belief that gender issues and women had broken through culturally.

I was stunned during Hillary's run to see the blatant sexism--it was a real wake up call. I think it's important to make the gender implications of the Biden pick known, among other things. . .

pololly commented at August 24, 2008 3:30 PM: "How can you look at Biden and feel underwhelmed? This ISN'T about him. Turn your attention to where is should be - the country and the Republicans. If you don't feel angry then just go vote for McCain. Because it seems like if Obama wins it will be in spite of his 'supporters'. I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh or even divisive but I feel so frustrated"

Don't be sorry, you're making great points!

pololly commented at August 24, 2008 3:30 PM: "I just don't know what feminism is if it doesn't involve putting the (more) feminist president in the White House. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel when I read articles like this. And as we fight amongst ourselves, the rich white man takes power AGAIN."

Again, thanks! I'm definitely voting for Obama too, and you've said it better than I why this is so important!

I have to say that in 38 years, I have not met too many perfect people, and that some of the debate is a bit unrealistic on this point. All politicians make compromises, and this is especially true in a country that has long grown accustomed to extremist right-wing politics as the norm. You can't ask for a cookie-cutter perfect liberal and hope to win. Obama comes closer to the ideal than any politician I've seen in a long time, and Biden has not done badly when you consider his long time in politics. Both of them seem to have kept their integrity and good sense, which matters a lot to me.

I think that Biden is the best of the available picks, and that Obama made a good choice. I don't think Kaine or Sebelius would have done much to help the ticket, and would have looked too inexperienced. Clinton has so many enemies and so much hatred among the rightwing/rightleaning independents that she might have sunk the whole deal. It only takes a couple of percent of a shift in voting, and we lose. I don't think it's fair, and Clinton has done some good things, but reality doesn't accomodate our wishes. Bayh would be a nothing pick for me, and Biden can punch harder.

My whole perspective has changed since I saw the ad the republicans put out about Hillary. I am--for now-- ready to wait on my concerns regarding the sexism (of Hillary's treatment, the choice of Biden, etc.).

The republicans are trying to stir up trouble and set dems against one another. Unity comes first. We must vote for Obama --work on finetuning feminist politics once he is president!!! it will certainly be much easier with him in the White House.

pololly...

i really appreciate what you wrote in your post and i certainly don't think you need to apologize for what you said. no, none of these candidates are our ideal candidtes, and yes, it would've been nice to see a female VP, but as you said, the larger task at hand is getting the democratic president/vp team elected. if we don't succeed (gasp i can't believe i just wrote that), american women, and women across the world, stand to lose a lot over the next four years.

i for one don't want to even imagine what a McCain-run America would look like.

Apparently we (those of us who had doubts about Biden) were not alone. Today Gallup has McCain leading by two points.

Times are hard-- A Vote for Obama is a vote for a future woman president.

kmg55057 said:
"...I have had the opportunity help undocumented women abused by their US citizen spouses. Because of VAWA, these women could begin new, safe lives away from the men who had raped, beaten, and attempted to kill them. VAWA is about the only development in recent federal policy I'm proud of. And Biden was critical to it..."
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http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/08/25/sen-bidens-vawa-cover-up/
Quote:
Amidst the hoopla surrounding Sen. Joseph Biden’s ascendancy to the right hand of Barack Obama, something was curiously missing. Over the last 15 years, Biden has repeatedly bragged to his friends and colleagues, “What I’m most proud of in my entire career is the Violence Against Women Act.” So why no mention of his legislative pride-and-joy amidst the flurry of text messages, press releases, and staged public appearances?

The answer is, VAWA has become something of an embarrassment to the good senator.

The Violence Against Women Act and related laws extract $1 billion from the federal purse and dispense the money to law enforcement agencies, legal aid programs, and abuse shelters. So what’s wrong with that?

Over the last two months I have documented a series of scandals at the nation’s abuse shelters. These articles have reported instances of drug abuse, dating parties for shelter residents, gross mistreatment of disabled residents, and assaults on shelter residents. And the eye-opener that the great majority of shelter residents are there for reasons that have nothing to do with domestic violence.

The investigation also reveals a broader pattern of managerial incompetence, lack of accountability, and a man-hating ideological agenda.

Most disturbing are reports of widespread child neglect and abuse, including physical and sexual assaults, many of these incidents going unreported to local authorities. And the shameful refusal of shelters to accept adolescent boys.

While many rue the struggles of our nation’s abuse shelters, these pale in comparison to VAWA’s effects on our nation’s legal system.
-----------------------------------
The other posts referred to in the quoted text above can be found here:
http://mensnewsdaily.com/author/carey-roberts/
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VAWA was and is sexist and promotes widespread misunderstanding of the issue and its supporters deny the extent of womens violence both against men and other women. It should be scrapped.

Women Want Safety, not Biden's Abuse of Power

Senator Joe Biden proudly proclaims that he was regularly and severely beaten by his older sister as a child and as an adolescent. This is the same sister that raised his two sons after his wife and daughter were killed in an auto accident.

Biden has often claimed that the Violence against Women Act is the greatest achievement of his career. He also claims that a woman cannot be a perpetrator of domestic violence, despite the fact that hundreds of studies show that women commit acts of domestic violence as often as, or more often than men. Many studies also show that lesbian women physically attack their intimate partners at least as often as heterosexual men.

As a result of Biden's Violence against Women Act, the federal government pays states to create laws effectively requiring that men be removed from their homes and families without even an allegation of violence, with no legitimate standards of evidence, when a woman makes a claim that she is afraid.

Elaine Epstein, president of the Massachusetts Bar Association (1999), has said "the facts have become irrelevant... restraining orders are granted to virtually all who apply. Regarding divorce cases, she states "allegations of abuse are now used for tactical advantage". According to Epstein, who is also a former president of the Massachusetts Women’s Bar Association, restraining orders are doled out "like candy" and "in virtually all cases, no notice, meaningful hearing, or impartial weighing of evidence is to be had."

State restraining order laws are starting to fall because they're unconstitutional. The federal law behind them, written by Joe Biden, is likely to fall as well, not because it isn’t popular, but because it is clearly unconstitutional.

Supporting Documentation

Here are some of the facts regarding Biden's abuse at the hand of his sister. During senate hearings held on December 11, 1990, Biden testified to the abuse.

www.ifeminists.net

This recent CDC study indicates that women between the ages of 18 and 28 initiate reciprocal violence against their intimate partners about as often as men. It also indicates that women initiate non-reciprocal violence against their intimate partners more than twice as often as men.

pn.psychiatryonline.org

Here is a link to a bibliography of over 200 studies indicating that women are as violent as men in their intimate relationships:

www.csulb.edu

According to the US Department of Justice, women also abuse, neglect and kill their children at significantly higher rates than men. Here’s some of the data on child homicides.

www.acf.hhs.gov

Research clearly indicates that lesbian battery is at least as common as heterosexual battery.

www.musc.edu/vawprevention

lesbianlife.about.com

Cathy Young reports on the Elaine Epstein quote and the broader issue at Salon.com here:

www.salon.com

and provides in depth analysis here:

www.iwf.org

i kinda wish that clinton would have been picked. i am happy with biden but would rather have clinton in there. Will have to see how things go. Marknad