OMG! the NYT put an article about women in the technology section?! What is the world coming to?!

Ha! My husband's reaction to the 1950s housewives article was, "I want to be a 1950s housewife! I want to gossip with the girls!"

But... but... there ARE no women on the Internet! The pseudoclever meme told me so!

From the NYT article:

...“Time and time again, women are happy to see their relationship with their food, their clothes and their relationships externally manifested in entertainment and how-to content,” said Lauren Zalaznick, president of NBC Universal’s women and lifestyle entertainment networks, including iVillage.

Shine from Yahoo initially vowed to cover current events and avoid the typical fare of sex and diet tips. But the most popular stories on a recent day were about racy photos of the teenage star Miley Cyrus and whether women were attracted to men with beards. “We tried pure news, and sometimes it doesn’t work,” said Brandon Holley, Shine’s editor in chief.

Yep, because we're all just vapid cosmetic junkies. Ugh.

Is it ever appropriate to play Bikini Kill for an eight-year-old?

Well, I've been listening to Sleater-Kinney and Bikini Kill and stuff like that since I was 10, so I figure the best age is at...10. Totally no bias there.

I wonder if any of those "time warp wives" have ever spoken to anyone who was actually alive during their periods. Or, you know, done some research other than Hollywood. I don't have a problem with roleplay and escapism. Dom/sub, 1950s, aristocratic goth, steampunk, furry, all that's fine with me--it's a part of self-determination. But I wish they'd cut with the fairy-tale "Life was soooo much better back then" crap. There's no excuse for it, especially since there are people still alive in our society to correct that way of thinking.

Agreed, MaggieF. It seemed pretty clear, especially with the 1950s wife in that article, that she doesn't want to live in the 50s, she wants to live in a 50s pop culture fantasyland.

From the New York Times article: "Although men are heavy users of the Web, they tend not to visit sites explicitly aimed at them. AOL’s Living channel for women had 16.1 million unique visitors in June, while its Asylum site, a top men’s destination online, had only 3.3 million"

Perhaps that's because ALL "general" websites are aimed at men?

Bikini Kill is appropriate for all ages!

Would you want 8 year-olds exposed to Disney movies and not Bikini Kill, really? I think Disney movies have totally messed up messages about gender roles and race (and class and able-ism... the list goes on).

Sex (and relationship) education should start as early as possible, and leaving Bikini Kill (and similar groups) out of that equation is a recipe for America. err, I mean, disaster.

Trying to "protect" children from sexual knowledge backfires and makes sexuality private, hidden and dirty.

Betty Friedan's, "The Feminine Mystique", published in 1963, gives a detailed analysis of how wonderful life was for women back in the innocent 50s.

The following is taken from a 1950s Home Economics Book. I cannot include them all, and it was difficult making a selection:

TIPS TO LOOK AFTER YOUR HUSBAND

HAVE DINNER READY: Plan ahead the night before to have a delicious meal on time. This is a way of letting him know that you have been thinking about him and are concerned about his needs. Most men are hungry when they come home and the prospects of a good meal are part of the warm welcome needed.

PREPARE YOURSELF: Take 15 minutes to rest so you will be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your make up, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh looking. He has just been with a lot of work weary people. Be a little gay and a little more interesting. His boring day may need a lift.

PREPARE THE CHILDREN: Take a few minutes to wash the children's hands and faces (if they are small), comb their hair and, if necessary, change their clothes. They are little treasures and he would like to see them playing the part.

SOME DONT'S: Don't greet him with problems or complaints. Don't complain if he's late for dinner. Count this as minor compared to what he might have gone through that day.

MAKE HIM COMFORTABLE: Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or suggest he lie down in the bedroom. Have a cool or warm drink ready for him. Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes. Speak in a low, soft, soothing and pleasant voice. Allow him to relax and unwind.

LISTEN TO HIM: You may have a dozen things to tell him , but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first.

MAKE THE EVENING HIS: Never complain if he does not take you out to dinner or other places of entertainment. Instead, try to understand his world of strain and pressure, his need to be home and relax.

THE GOAL: Try to make your home a place of peace and order where your husband can renew himself in body and soul.

Back to me... Somehow I doubt that this supposedly perfect depiction of 50s family life ever existed, even though the myth was perpetuated constantly in the media, and even in educational texts such as that above. One can only wonder at how difficult it must have been for early feminists to break through such universally accepted values about family life, and men's and women's respective roles, even if, in reality, life was not like this. The woman described above is denied a voice even in her own home, in deference to her husband. How on earth was she to have a voice in the public arena? I have such respect for the women who were brave and outspoken enough to question a way of life deemed as "the natural order" in the early days of feminism. Even in 1977, when Marilyn French had written "The Women's Room", a fictional account of a woman living the above life, and the price she paid for breaking free, she found it difficult to find a publisher brave enough to publish her work.

Must go now. Hubby is home soon and I need to freshen up... lol To be fair to him, if I told him to sit down while I took off his shoes, he would think I'd gone mad!!!

lol AliCat I love that thing. My mom found that and gave it to me as a joke and now I keep it on my fridge and we laugh at it all the time. We have two dogs and in reference to prepare the children sometimes my husband would be like, why do the dogs not have on outfits they should look their best for me...and instead they try to hump his legs when he walks in the door

Many apologies for popping up just to plug something, but this post I wrote may be of interest to Feministing readers (even if I did write it myself!)

@AliCat

The 1950's Home Economics book excerpt hasn't actually been verified as true - it may be a fabrication.

Buh. We should all go comment on the Shakesville post--it's getting trolls. I hate when they dominate threads like that.

: Depends on the kid, my daughter was not sheltered from words much past the age of 5-6. She heard me swear conversationally and emotively (usually while driving), but she also cued in to the fact that I didn't swear around certain people or in certain places (I do not swear in front of other people's kids or in public, etc) and now while she still laughs ay my dirty jokes she does not swear at all. It's really obvious (Dad does it, so it's obviously not cool). As to the content of BK, yeah it's pretty harsh but it's based on an autobiographical perspective. Would you let an 8 year old watch Roots or the old "World at War" series? I thin with genuine parental guidance then you can talk about this stuff with your kid and take away the valuable message of the material. Plus if your kid listens to BK, etc then you won't have to listen to crappy pop in the car.

Definition of sex: I know it isn't obvious but it should be. It's just basic manners you treat the other as you wish to be treated in all things. I know (anecdotally) that some guys are inconsiderate in bed as a rule (and everyone is at one point or another on occasion, male or female for whatever reason) but anyone who wants to have a good time and "repeat business" is going to be considerate. I've certainly been with women who could climax easily through penis/vagina penetration, but it's been my experience that the hand is a much more reliable and appreciated implement for that purpose. Do the men you folks have sex with really not get this?

Run for women of the Congo: Anyone else having problems getting the registration page? Anyone else in Portland planning on running?

@ rhowan

Betty Friedan's book is certainly no fabrication. Nor is Marilyn French's. Both give a very real depiction of the status and experiences of women in decades past.

The point I made was that the reality of women's experiences in the 50s was very different to the popular image of domestic bliss constantly pushed upon them. Even in the late 70s when I was in early secondary school, Home Economics was compulsory for girls, and Woodwork, Metalwork and Plastics was compulsory for boys. Learning how to cook was a major component of the course. However we also learnt how to do laundry. I specifically remember taking a hand-knitted woolen jumper to school to learn how to hand-wash. We learnt sewing and even how to design our own kitchen. However the highlight of our course was deportment and grooming and I remember getting an A+ for my fingernails.

Later on the school, as a result of the changing cultural climate, did finally allow access for girls to Woodwork, etc, and boys were able to do Home Economics. However, the boys did it separately to the girls, and it was called a "Bachelors' Course"!!!!!! This implied that the course was not serious, and was just giving the boys some "stop-gap" skills until they found a woman to take on the role of domestic drudge for them. My younger brother had to do this course, and I remember joking with him that he never had his fingernails assessed.

Whether the 50s Home Economics Book excerpt is a fabrication or not underlines the hypocrisy of the times either way. If it is authentic, then it illustrates what girls were being taught in order to conform to the ideal of the perfect housewife. If it is a fabrication, then it is a very clever commentary and criticism of the times, exposing how a myth was promoted as reality to women of the times re family life and their role in it.

Anyway it's good for a laugh until you realize that a generation of women were led to believe that this kind of existence was their ultimate goal.

No one at Rock n Roll Camp for Girls played that Bikini Kill cassette for the 8-year old. It was a tape sent home in a swag bag. She had no opportunity to listen to it while at the camp, and when she got home her parents looked at it, decided it wasn't appropriate, and the girl was not exposed to it. Explicit music isn't played publicly at the camp. Was it a mistake to put that tape in a swag bag? Maybe. Those bags are filled with all sorts of stuff that the camp gets donated, each one is different, they're put together in an assembly-line process, and perhaps not enough attention is paid to the content of the stuff. The amazing stuff that Rock n Roll Camp for Girls accomplishes far outweighs one maybe-inappropriate cassette that no one even listened to, though.