I had a mild case of fanaticism for Madonna (okay, I died my hair blond in the 5th grade...and my grandmother let me!). I never caught on to the New Kids craze, but agreed, somewhere there is a study about this, hopefully by a fantastic feminist.

I read a really cool article about this phenomenon, something about the Beatles and preteen hysteria. I can look up the reference if anyone's interested. The main idea was that going nutso over boy bands is essentially the only venue in which teen/tween girls are allowed to express a kind of sexuality, a very physical kind (jumping up and down, screaming, etc). So even though it appears that they're being crazy in a bowing-to-the-patriarchy kind of way, it may be an expression of sexual agency.

But that's all theoretical, and I think if I had walked by the group like you had I'd have had the exact same reaction.

I had a religion professor in college who told us about how he once saw Jimi Hendrix in concert. The feel of the group was so intense and the mass crowd was just incredibly alluring and overpowering. He said watching him play was kind of like being brainwashed.

I don't think there is a correlation between being a teenager and being a fanatic of a crappy band, because I was a super-obsessive fanatic about The Smiths and Joy Division, and those bands are awesome. I just think most people have questionable and similar taste in music, so when they congregate, it seems like a specifically teenage thing to have crappy taste in music. I do think there might be something about being a teenager and being obsessive about a band, but at the same time, I've never gotten over music and I still obsess to the point of madness, thus why I am a DJ and can express my obsessive music nerdiness every week.

The Frisky mentioned this not too long ago... about the Jonas Brothers specifically.

Apparently I'm officially too old for teen-y pop culture. I keep hearing these names, but I have no idea what these people are famous for. I haven't heard the songs or watched the movies...

I liked Hanson, N*Sync, and Backstreet Boys, but I don't think I was ever obsessive at all. Never went to a concert, didn't buy any merch other than CDs.

I study it!

It is interesting, isn't it? I'm working on a much larger research endeavor with this, but the fun bits I write about online:

Here's a blog I authored on the subject:
http://www.sheoncehadme.blogspot.com/

She Once Had Me has now been subsumed into Pop Feminist.

So far, I've updated the Letters to the Beatles--Revolutionary Texts which can be found here:
http://popfeminist.blogspot.com/search?q=letters+to+the+beatles%3A+revolutionary+texts

People want to be part of a "thing", we have been raised to revere past events which were not seen as such a big deal until later on in history (Woodstock, Janis and the Filmore, Pope JP II, Star Wars even).

People have been conditioned to believe that part of the required experience of being a participant in history is attendance to some sort of "happening", and they are willing to engage in stupid antics out of fear of later finding out that they missed that big decade/generation defining "event".

iPhones
All the more recent Star Wars movies
Generic pop-acts (hell, any music act that does not involve actual human sacrifice is not worth waiting in line for)
Video game consoles

The world is now a giant PR machine that exists to convince you that the bullshit they are selling is important to you. God is dead and those who would have followed him in frenzied devotion now clamor for the next iteration of NKOTB and the Walkman.

Not that it's a bad thing, the energy that razed Jerusalem has merely been redirected to buying stuff with USB 2.0 compatibility.

I signed in specifically to share the same link @ The Frisky that was referenced in the above comment, but by the time I logged on, Cody beat me to it. Personally, I think it is fascinating that such and (apparently) weird phenomenon of tween fan ecstasy -- which really is only seen in girls, as far as I can tell-- actually does appear to be linked to brain chemistry. Unfortunately, the Rolling Stone article that originally published the quote doesn't go into the speculation on why this exists. Has anybody read The Female Brain? Does the book go into those theories at all?

Just for the record, the Jonas Brothers suck!

Ugh. This sort of thing freaks me out, too. What's worse though, I think, is when girls idolize stars like Miley Cyrus (Hannah Montana). I've read some interviews with her, and it pains me to know that millions of 8 - 16 yr. olds want to be just like her. For example:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=28904

I'd like to know where the parents of these girls are?? My mom would never let me stay out 15 hours for some band on GMA... no matter who they were. I'm 21 and she still wouldn't let me!

Pop Feminist really is a great source for this stuff, as a fellow Beatles fan I highly recommend her. Before I saw that she already commented, I was going to link to her! :)

Let me just say that while many groups are compared to the Beatles in terms of the hysteria, and we all have to work with what they're given, none of them were or most likely ever will be the Beatles. And if I could go back in time and be a teenager, or hell a damn adult, in those days, I'd wait out on the sidewalk for months to see them. Screw overnight. And that has nothing to do with floppy hair. It has to do with the fact that they're the goddamn fucking Beatles and I'd give my left arm to have experienced the presence of the greatest musicians of all time.

Then again, when it comes to the Beatles, many would consider me to be a little on the weird side. But still. It is what it is.

As for this phenomenon in general, and looking at my pre-teen obsession with certain heartthrobs, I'm going with Sociological Me's analysis (which I'm pretty positive Pop Feminist has also corroborated). It was a way of expressing burgeoning sexuality . . . with male figures who were young, not particularly masculine, and way out of the reach of my wildest dreams, and therefore not very threatening.

At the end of the day it's all about friendship.

I can't tell you how many times I saw N'Sync, and I was into Dead Kennedys and TSOL for most of the time. But my cousins dug pop music so it was kind of a bonding thing.

I'd bet a lot of money none of those teenage girls are the SOLE fan of said group. It's like a bonding thing.

I used to obsessed with NSYNC and Hanson.. all I can say is that the girls feed off each other.. almost like a religious experience. (I also used to go to youth group praise and worship stuff and it works the same way.) I agree with the poster who said something about being brainwashed.

all of this is good and true.

superfans feed off each other's enthusiasm. people like being a part of something. when you're a teenager, you're particularly susceptible to peer pressure--which is why probably some of those girls waiting for les freres jonas probably don't even like them all that much, but they got sucked in by their friends. teenagers also don't have a whole heck of a lot they can do, especially if they live in a boring suburb. going to concerts, even with the parents, is a chance to leave their everyday life.

combine all this with a big marketing power and it's a recipe for cultish fandom.

i will say, that the comparison to a religious experience is totally apt. those girls waiting outside aren't just waiting to kill time, it's a quest for them, a labor of love to prove their devotion as True Fans.

maybe you either have the "fan" gene or you don't, but personally i can definitely say that i've been to shows and felt something like a spiritual experience/connection. granted, these were all actual good bands, but it's basically the same. haven't you ever walked out of a tiny, crowded room after watching a band, smelling of beer and your sweat mixed with other people's and simply had no words to describe how good you felt?

anyway, i can relate i guess, although i never got in on the new kids hysteria or any other boy bands.

waiting in line for the jonas brothers is like their pilgrimage to mecca, where they walk around that thing a whole bunch of times.

it's really interesting to me how many aspects of religion and religious rituals manifest themselves in secular, popular culture today. we did kill god, but he's been reincarnated into iphones, boy bands and comic book movie franchises.

Just wondering...what is the intention of the use of the term "hysteria" in the context of this article? Is it supposed to be a joke or is it here because we're talking about young women, or was the historical reference completely unintentional and it was just a random word choice? It seems deliberate, but I'm not sure how it's meant. Just curious. I feel left out if I was supposed to glean something from it.

I think the frenzy for The Beatles was an anomaly. In the Beatles' case, the youthful president that wasn't so beloved while living had just died, and I think for a lot of young people, they felt as though something had died along with Kennedy. Figure in the sheer numbers of kids with brand new hormones and disposable income, and then here come these cute boys from England (which has its own mythos) and you've got teens writhing and screaming in the aisles. And there was a Beatle for every taste.

The closest I've ever seen of that kind of screamy orgasmic frenzy is when I went to a Franz Ferdinand show in 2004. 21+ show, and even the men were shrieking at Alex Kapranos like I would've if I'd've been around to go to the Ed Sullivan Show in February, 1964. Because I would've. For John. Who was very sexy. The Jonas Brothers? I don't know enough about them to judge. I saw their Rolling Stone cover on the newsstand recently. Disney boys, right? Meh. It makes the Beatles more of an anomaly because they got where they were organically, and weren't pre-fabricated hype.

I don't understand this obsession with the latest Disney stars. I was teenaged girl quite recently and, while we had a few celebrity crushes (Orlando Bloom) we were never quite so manic about the latest thing. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that none of us particularly liked top 40 stuff, it was all rock or indie pop. Fangirls were the lowest of the low. The difference between the Jonas brothers and the Beatles is that the Beatles were musical greats. The Jonas brothers, like Miley Cirus and the Highschool musical group are prepackaged Disney creations designed to be parentally acceptable. Lame.

OK, so hundreds of young women basically take over/stake out part of NYC as a safe space to stay up all of a summer night talking with their friends, and then the next day see a concert. It sounds like a blast to me no matter what band it is!

Almost every one of the girls you saw last night would let the Jonas Brothers do anything they wanted to them.

Well, I can explain the "floppy hair and androgyny" bit (I think). I've been fascinated by beauty and how society conceives of it. It seems like there are three types of beauty that combine (and sometimes conflict) to create "beauty."

Social beauty is just that: what society says is beautiful. It's typically based on what the wealthy and powerful look like, and so it's the most difficult figure to get (double chins were desirable in the middle ages, hourglass figures were preferred in the 1950s, now we seem to want a combination of busty and anorexic).

Conditioned beauty is based on the people we grew up with: straight men/lesbians with red-haired, thin mothers will often prefer red-haired, thin women; people who had very close playmates who are of a different race will often prefer partners of that race, etc.

Innate beauty is simpler. It's mostly based on our evolved preference for fertile and healthy sexual partners, and so we have preferences for particular waist:hip ratios (independent of actual waist or hip measurements) that correlate with fertility, particular behaviors and scents that tend to indicate fertility, etc.

This is where androgyny comes into play. In both men and women, desirable mate traits come from a balanced level of testosterone. Low levels cause low libido and fertility (in both sexes), while high levels leads to aggression, poor attention span, etc. None of these are desirable traits in a mate, so they were selected against. However, you can't easily see low fertility or poor attention span, so we target the most visible effect: face shape.

Innate beauty is the only factor that's constant across time and culture, so it's seen in some of the most beautiful paintings. For example, most realistic renderings of religious people are androgynous (i.e. Jesus, the Buddha, Shiva), as are many of the timeless works of realism such as da Vinci's Mona Lisa and John the Baptist.

The only musical act I was really enthusiastic about was the Spice Girls...although I probably wouldn't have waited outside to see them on GMA..

However, in my most recent years I've got COMPLETELY FANGIRLY for a couple of book series.

When I was a teen I was really fangirly for Sailor Moon. I kept a journal of my thoughts on each episode. I documented it....yea.

I think I've got this beat...how about thousands and thousands of Mormons camping out on private property in downtown Salt Lake City, waiting for a regular float and marching band parade? All to celebrate a state-sanctioned religious celebration, of course.

when i was a pre-teen i was obsessed with nkotb. at 27 i still on occassion listen to my nkotb tape and watch the 2 vhs videos i have of them.

i read somewhere, ill be damned if i recall where, tho i think it may have been in bust or in the bust book, a theory that the reason pre-teen girls obsess over pop stars is becos its a totally safe way to begin to explore your sexuality. you have this lust object, but you dont have to actually kiss them or have sex with them, since you cant actually meet them. so you can fantasize without dealing with the real thing which is still at that age mostly terrifying and sort of gross-out inducing. plus you can have this perfect relationship in your head without having to face rejection, which again, while unpleasant at any age, is terrifying when you're still figuring out exactly who you are and when other peoples opinions can be really really important.

thinking back on my nkotb obsession and the bop and tiger beat pinup boys i had taped to my walls, i have to say i can totally understand that theory.

I don't get it either.

I've gone to concerts dozens of times, and I never understand the people around me who are shrieking and shouting and clawing at me and beating on me to get me out from between them and their beloved. I've never understood the high-pitched screaming. Or people who scream when they get excited.

I was at an event once (seated) where the person we were there to see walked down the aisle toward the stage. When I turned around to see, the girls around me were FUH-REEKING out, suddenly antsy, hands shaking, legs shaking, squealing, screaming, etc. I was just like ... "Whatever."

But I have no emotions, so maybe that explains it.

I'll admit it. I'm a fan. (I'm 14, so that must be it)
It scares me.
But not an obsessive one.
Miley Cyrus I don't really like. I don't know why I'm a fan of the Jonas Brothers, really but I think it might have to do with the fact that all my friends are super obsessive fans (if they could have been at Good Morning America thing they would have).
It's all anyone ever listens to because its all anyone they know ever listens too. There's no way out, I guess.

Heh. A couple years ago, I waited (sans friends) all night in Times Square in 0 degree windchill AND constant rain in order to meet System of a Down the following night. Even after I had my wristband (guaranteed entry), I got right back in that line so that I could be among the first to meet them and still have time to rush over to Webster Hall early enough to get a good spot in THAT line. I was soaked, frozen, and spent that Thanksgiving with the fever from hell, but dammit I'd do it all again. lol

I also stood in the nonstop rain during Rufus Wainwright's summerstage concert last year. Gotta do what you gotta do. A bit obsessive maybe, but sometimes you just know that it's going to be an amazing experience (and both times, it honestly was).

I think it's latent band obsession, seeing as how I never got a chance to see nkotb, even though I had the bedsheets and everything. ;P

As for the kids doing it, I remember waiting in line at 6 in the morning with my cousin and little sister to buy tickets to see the Backstreet Boys (granted, this was before internet purchasing was so widespread an option; now, it's the ONLY way to go if you want a ticket to a popular concert). It's just a fun girl-time bonding thing. But there's no way in hell my parents would have let me stay out all night in NYC to wait for tickets when I was a young teen, die-hard fan or not.

Lisa Lewis talks about the Beatles hysteria in "The Adoring Audience: Fan Culture and Popular Media." The text is available on GoogleBooks, Chapter 5. It's basically the theory SociologicalMe mentioned: that young women don't have outlets to express their sexuality or rebel, but en mass, they can. I don't know how relevant it is today, but in the context of the early 1960s, it makes a lot of sense.
My Mom recently told me about the first time she heard the Beatles. She was at a church event on Saturday night, having pizza with her friends. She and her friends usually weren't allowed to hang out outside of their houses on weekends and she was out "late" that night. She purchased the album as soon as she could. It was the first album that she purchased that was hers and didn't belong to the rest of the family. My Mom says she never was hysterical and was actually annoyed at the concert she went to because she couldn't hear the music, but it still seems that the Beatles and being teenage independence are linked in her mind.

The best friend who introduced me to the Backstreet Boys (don't hate) via a fold out poster in 4th grade was raised in a super devout Southern Baptist family and had made an abstinence pledge by middle school. Hmmmm....

I've gotta admit that the first time I heard about the Jonas Brothers was actually last night, because there was a thing about the upcoming VMAs on TV. I'm not nearly as much of a pop culture junkie as I used to be, apparently.

Anyway. I've stood in line in the pouring rain for several hours to see Placebo, and I am one of the people in the first row who jump up and down maniacally.

I don't know anyone else who's this into the band, and they're certainly not a current pop culture phenomenon, so I wouldn't attribute my fan-girl-ness to those common causes. Of course there's a bonding thing going on at the concert, with the random strangers I just met standing in line, but mostly for me it's about the experience with the music.

I don't understand the hysteria either. I was never like that as a kid. Though I did go through a brief period of obsession with Elijah Wood, after the first Lord of the Rings movie came out. And even though it turned out Elijah and I were never meant to be, I still love Lord of the Rings. And that's why I kind of pity these girls. After the infatuations end, what are they going to be left with? I was left with an amazing movie trilogy and even better books, Beatles fans got some of the best music on the planet... but what about the Jonas Brothers fangirls? They'll have nothing but colorful posters and shame.

err...not to be all self-promotion-y, but some of you may be interested in my on-going "teen idols" series:

http://popfeminist.blogspot.com/search/label/Pop%20Feminist%20Teen%20Idols

The teeny-bopper phenomenon is extremely pervasive in the history of girls culture. The Beatles/Jonas Bros are in no way an anomaly. It started with Rudolf Valentino in the 1920s, and has ever since been a homosocial resource for young girls in the crisis moment transition into adulthood (and struggling with the implications of patriarchy).

The shame that is beaten into teeny boppers when they grow up and are taught how humiliating it is to have been a HUGE Hanson fan or something is a damaging cultural phenom. Boy's culture, on the other hand, is valorized (the integrity of sports, comic books are winning pulitzer prize, MAD magazine is considered to be sophisticated social commentary etc.)

Girls culture is largely defined not only by hyper consumerist, lowbrow entertainment, but the "silliness" of their adolescent sexuality which is the driving force behind their adoration of these boys.

These suppositions don't account for lesbians who have male teen idols, heterosexual girls who have female teen idols, the high-level, clear headed community organizing that takes place, the complication of the "male gaze" happening here and furthermore betrays how unexamined the texts are...probably regarded as "not worth it" because they're "transparent" to the misogynist imagination. The sneering dismissal of this violent, radical moment for so many girls, needs to stop. Like, now.

I've sat outside overnight in the cold for a video game system. What does that say about me that I'll sit overnight for an inanimate object, but cannot be moved to such by human beings creating music?

Although, you have to know that the waiting in line is almost a party in itself. With you are gathered dozens of people who have the exact same interests as you, stuck in the same shitty situation of waiting up all night. There is much socializing, game playing, and good will that goes on.

Susan Douglas' book "Where the Girls Are: Growing Up Female with the Mass Media" has a chapter devoted to the Beatles and Beatlemania -- mostly what others have said here -- mass fandom being a form of some expression of active sexual desire in an atmosphere that didn't allow young women that outlet. Reading her take helped me feel less contemptuous of "hysterical," young, female fans. She does historicize it as a product of the time (she writes about Beatle-mania v. the earlier Elvis-hysteria -- how the Beatles' androgyny and kind of "gentle" masculinity was more accessible for girls to make the object of their desire, unlike Elvis' pelvic masculinity).

I haven't read it in a while, but I'm sure you could draw parallels to the more recent boy-band worships of the past 20 years (NKOTB, Backstreet Boys, Jonas Bros). Sure, they're not at the level of Elvis- or Beatle-mania, but there seem to be parallels. Especially in the kind of 'safe' aspect to the Disney prefab boy bands (don't the Jonas brothers wear true-love-waits rings?)

Is using "hysteria" in the title of this supposed to be ironic or...?

I had friens who stood in line for Star Wars and I stood in line with them for hours. It was a party. We got to chat with people who understood our interest in the film and the feeling of anticipation surrounding the entire phenomenon. I still have fond memories of that time with my friends.

Sounds pretty powerful that a group of young women are going to stay out all night with each other and then enjoy a band that they love. Seriously, what's it to you or others?

Disney markets the shit out of the Jonas Brothers (especially the middle child).

Here's a fun fact: You don't normally hear about this happening to boys but apparently the Jonas Brothers took a vow of abstinence. They wear these little rings to remind everyone that they are saving themselves for marriage.

Pop Feminist-

I've been looking at your Beatles and Feminism posts and they are really interesting. Keep up the good work.

ZacFron, the girls line up for the Jonas Brothers wouldn't know what "do anything to them" would even be, and generally love this type of band because they have an asexual sexuality- feminine and non-threatening. If a Jonas Brother had the druthers to approach the line and try to "do anything" to the girl, I'd anticipate massive freak outs before blind capitulation.

I like the Jonas Brothers. I watched Camp Rock with my niece and realized it's exactly what I would have loved when I was her age, or even older. I still got a kick out of it.

"The sneering dismissal of this violent, radical moment for so many girls, needs to stop. Like, now." Yes, and Thank you for saying so Pop Feminist.

If only we could get these Disney Tweens to stop with the vocal virginity pledges, I'd be happier. But culturally we need to STOP the shaming that happens when they take pictures of themselves trying out their sexuality (Miley Cirus's currently hacked phone pics) and oh, gasp, give an interview where they sound like they are 15! Cause they are! lord alive, if anyone read my "deep thoughts" from my diary when I was 15 and posted it as an interview, I would sound just as silly. I worry about the Disney gals (and guys) because of what happened with Britney Spears- it's important to see where she came from (she was essentially the first of this group of Disney Girls) and where her virginity pledges and intense scrutiny got her. Keeping solid kids with talent (and yes, they have talent. These kids are very, very talented) out of the pop culture won't work, mainly because this kind of relationship IS important to teen sexuality and development. The way we treat these teen stars as adults is more important to focus on, IMO.

Yeah, I want to third the inquiry about the use of "hysteria" here. I expected this post to be some Freud-debunking or to contain a discussion of the word, but instead it's about fawning teenaged girls sitting on a sidewalk who aren't even doing what I think of the word as implying (e.g., bawling and shrieking at Beatles shows).

What's the story?

"The shame that is beaten into teeny boppers when they grow up and are taught how humiliating it is to have been a HUGE Hanson fan or something is a damaging cultural phenom. Boy's culture, on the other hand, is valorized (the integrity of sports, comic books are winning pulitzer prize, MAD magazine is considered to be sophisticated social commentary etc.)"

eh, most people i know wear their silly adolescent obsessions as a badge of honor. or at least have owned up to that one-time guiltiest of pleasures. my roommate still has (and wears, ironically, of course) her new kids on the block earrings and she has tickets to see them on their reunion tour. because of the ubiquity of such fandom, i've never really seen anyone be all that embarrassed about owning up to the fact that they used to like nysync or the backstreet boys or hanson or whatever once they are adults.

i'll agree with you that boy culture is more highly regarded, but i think that at least in my generation, fangirls who grew up aren't hiding in shame, but laughing about it, as everyone does about stupid things they liked when they were younger.

When I was in 8th grade, there was a local band I was CUH-RAZY about. The (all-male) members were relatively young (I think one of the members were still in HS), they were super-cute, and they were totally Led Zep inspired, and I loved Led Zep at that age.

I think a HUGE part of their appeal to me was, as SocialogicalMe says (and I'd love to see that article), it was a "safe space" for me to be sexual, and to openly lust after someone. The fact that the men in question were tiny and on a stage and far away from me only made it better--I didn't have to worry about them misinterpreting my actions, or being inappropriate, or wanting to have sex with me. I was still more or less a kid at the time, and although I was starting to take ownership over my sexual feelings and figuring out who I was attracted to, I was also pretty terrified of men/boys. Given the choice between flirting with a HS boy face-to-face, and drooling at one from afar when he put on a performance, it was no contest which I'd prefer to do.

I was hysterical, strangely enough, about Pyromania-era Def Leppard, but not Hysteria-era Def Leppard.

Cedar: Was the name of that band "Kingdom Come"?

jessilikewhoa1981 commented at August 8, 2008 1:12 AM: "i read somewhere, ill be damned if i recall where, tho i think it may have been in bust or in the bust book, a theory that the reason pre-teen girls obsess over pop stars is becos its a totally safe way to begin to explore your sexuality. you have this lust object, but you dont have to actually kiss them or have sex with them, since you cant actually meet them."

I heard that the "androgyny" of recent male pop idols goes with this too. On another forum a few years ago I saw some middle-age men complain about why Leonardo DiCaprio had so many fans when he looked less "manly" than Clark Gable et al. and someone else pointed out that many of Leonardon's fans are girls. It's not that Leonardo looks feminine, it's that he looks closer to their age than to their father's ages. For a 13-year-old, Leonardo DiCaprio may seem even "safer" than george Clooney.

Nerdypants commented at August 8, 2008 5:25 AM: "I was left with an amazing movie trilogy and even better books, Beatles fans got some of the best music on the planet... but what about the Jonas Brothers fangirls? They'll have nothing but colorful posters and shame."

...and some music that pleased their eardrums when they were young and may still please their eardrums when they're older. ;)

PS--Has anyone here read the book Bye Bye Baby by Caroline Sullivan? It's been a few since I've read it, but it's a fascinating and personal look at this phenomenon (although the woman in question is quite a bit older than your "average" teeny-bopper, and she takes her fandom further than most of us did). It's about a teenager growing up and learning how to become an adult, how to build relationships with other women, and how to be sexual through her obsession with the Bay City Rollers. It's also a great female perspective on fandom/music.

Does this post strike anyone else as weirdly sexist? When I read this:

"What is it about those teen years that creates such a capacity for obsessive, religious-like worship of mediocre bands? I mean, even if they were the best musicians/dancers ever and total heartthrobs, would it really constitute sitting out on the NYC sidewalk for fifteen hours on the hottest night ever?"

I hear this:

"Why are those teenage girls so crazy, irrational, overemotional, and deluded as to like these bands that I, in my position of superiority and inherent objectivity, deem mediocre? I mean, even if we control for the inherent weakness of their feeble brains to sex appeal, their actions are- let me repeat- crazy, irrational, overemotional, and deluded."

Um, maybe they legitimately like the Jonas Brothers even if you don't. Maybe their decision to wait all night to see them is empowering, a chance for them to assert independence and bond with friends. And maybe, just maybe, you're not the one who gets to decide if their actions are legitimate.

norbizness--Alas, no. They were called Jinx Evergreen, which was, I later found out, the "porn star" name (first pet + street you grew up on) of the drummer.

I'm at work, so I don't have time to read the whole thread (I'll try later, I promise), so apologies if I repeat anything.

"I had a religion professor in college who told us about how he once saw Jimi Hendrix in concert. The feel of the group was so intense and the mass crowd was just incredibly alluring and overpowering. He said watching him play was kind of like being brainwashed."

I've thought a lot about this, and while I haven't encountered any scholarship on the topic (I'm sure there's tons), here's what I've come up with, in a nutshell:

In our society we cheekily refer to the "cult" of celebrity, referring to the obsessive fandom that enables things like tabloids and camp-outs for concert tickets. But after I started studying Greco-Roman religion I noticed something: the modern manifestation of Elvis Presley fandom is nearly identical to post-Alexandrian Greek hero worship, and even Classical and pre-Classical hero cult (particularly Herakles). You have a larger-than-life figure who gains immense popularity by being very good at something (music, killing dudes, whatever), dies under mysterious and/or tragic circumstances, and comes back to life (witness: Elvis sitings at myriad burger joints in the midwest, "Elvis isn't dead, he was abducted by aliens," etc.). Elvis Presley has two major cult sites in the United States: his home and burial place at Graceland (hero cults, being centered on humans and not gods, generally have strong elements of death cult), and Las Vegas, which celebrates his life and idealized character, and smaller scattered sites around the country and perhaps world(Portland, OR, even has a drive-thru Church of Elvis, and a friend of mine tells me that yes, it calls itself that). Every year people bring thousands of dollars worth of flowers and other offerings to his grave. The Elvis cult even includes relics--things he owned, like clothing, are held in veneration. I even heard of a women who owns a small piece of preserved flesh that she claims is a mole he had removed. Disgusting? Yes. But no less so than the fingerbone of a Christian saint at a European cathedral.

Elvis is a pretty extreme example, and I'm sure that most of even the most extreme Elvis fans would never characterize their behavior as religious, but I had a similar experience to the commenter's professor at a Pearl Jam show, and my friend's father remembers the same feeling at a Janis Joplin show. Having grown up going to charismatic Christian churches (think speaking in tongues) I can tell you that the feeling at the Pearl Jam show was--physically and emotionally--exactly the same. Whether that means that Elvis Presley and Eddie Vedder are gods, or that God is just a celebrity, the point is that people are religious and will exhibit religious behavior. If you think that the phenomenon is just female (Elvis, the Beatles, the Jonas Brothers, the historically female Dionysis cult), think about the demographic of the camp-outs for Star Wars: Episode One, or the behavior of mostly male sports fans.

The classic male equivalent of this is fanatical devotion to team, best explored in Nick Hornby's wonderful "Fever Pitch", in which he explains his obsession with Arsenal football club. Now, I hate Arsenal (I'm a Spurs fan when it comes to the North London derby), but Hornby perfectly in adolescence. It's actually very similar stuff to the pop crushes you're seeing with the Jonas Brothers.

In my day, girls were obsessed with Leif Garrett and Andy Gibb

sorry, should read above "Hornby nails perfectly the way in which identity gets wrapped up with hero-worship in adolescence."

It's the Jonas Brothers in America and Tokio Hotel in Europe, and the list of past boy bands go on and on. I think it's embarrassing as a fellow teenager to hear about these situations. Thousands of young women worshipping a couple guys who can play some instrument? Lots of people think it's cute that these girls are such devoted fans that they'd line up outside of concerts days before, spends thousands of hours making fansites, and obsess over members to the point of memorizing their blood-type and what that certain band member's locker combination was in the 8th grade.

"Nick Jonas, Joe Jonas, Kevin Jonas." is all I hear from friends and then I get an earful of Tokio Hotel chatter from another group of friends. I just can't comprehend it. I'd like to say "well, I respect the fact that they have their own interests, even though they differ from mine" but when I hear about teenage girls sending in naked pictures of themselves to bands, I just lose it. Why would you do that? To further prove negative stereotypes of women being objects and only having the ability to fawn over a man?!

As a young teen, I hear more about it then adult feminists do, so my response may be perceived as extremely aggressive, but I hear about these guys all the time. ALL THE TIME. It gets a little trying after a while, especially if I'm trying to discuss the rights of women in the Middle East and a buddy interrupts to tell me Nick's favorite color is blue....I feel like I can't talk to other girls my age about international issues or politics, because they're too busy listening to "Burnin' Up" for the 50th time.

Lauren, it struck me as such, too, but I couldn't put my finger on it as succinctly as you did.

What I immediately noticed is that the original post seemed carefully calibrated not to mention gender after it launched into critique mode. The sentences that follow the mention of the incident itself -- like What is it about those teen years that creates such a capacity for obsessive, religious-like worship of mediocre bands? -- might not explicitly mention girls, but they sure do implicate them with the account the whole post is based on and with the word "hysteria." If the question isn't being considered with a gendered critique (why are teenaged girls so stupidly nuts for heartthrobs?) and is instead just about dumb adolescent behavior, then I don't see why it's even posted on a feminist blog. Maybe I'm being short-sighted.

There are long lines of people camping out for shit in New York all the time. Why do the weekly early-morning lines outside the Public Theater for Shakespeare in the Park tickets draw no judgments here for being indicative of "obsessive, religious-like worship" while teenaged girls waiting for pop stars do? Because they aren't exclusively female and therefore not suspect? Because their denizens are older and therefore more discerning? Because their cultural echelon is more legit?

(Also, last night didn't seem that hot; Ifor August, it was pretty pleasant. Had it been, say, the Ex or Thalia Zedek playing instead of some kids I'd never heard of, I'd've waited in line.)

I think a lot of what has been said above certainly holds true, and the mass adoration of certain groups is a combination of these ideas. Looking at the types of young men that draw these crowds, they do seem to be almost androgynous and are certainly non-threatening, and I think that plays into burgeoning sexuality and acceptable expression of it, as stated above. I also think it's a bonding experience for girls. It allows young girls a chance to feel accepted by giving them something to fixate on as a group. I can remember being in Junior High and hearing about all the girls talking about a certain boy band constantly. Joining in on that conversation felt good, and going to the concerts was amazing if for nothing more than the energy and feeling like I belonged with other girls. That's a very strong adolescent need.

And I will say that I once stood outside in below freezing temperatures with a few dozen fans for two hours to meet the Kids in the Hall (I no longer had the excuse of adolescence then, just a love of awesome comedy). Feeling the group energy and communal adoration for the same thing really brought back those preteen feelings. I think, ultimately, it may just be a right of passage.

I can remember actually hyperventilating in excitement over getting tickets to see Duran Duran. The funny thing is I really preferred the Clash and other punk bands musically, but the Clash weren't cute (other than Paul Simonon.) I grew out of that really excited fangirl stage fairly quickly, but I think there is something about young teens that leads to that sort of behavior. Maybe it is a form of sexual agency, as another poster said.

My prima sat to see Chris Brown on the today show concert but hell I wanted to see that.

You should have seen the guys camping outside of bestbuy when the new Grand theft auto came out. Or the people waiting for three days for a playstation. The line went for over a block and people had tents, sleeping bags, and tvs.

I think one of the major components to this behavior is group identity. We're all susceptible to this, but it's most obvious in adolescents who are just learning to define themselves and really need to be part of the group.

Of course one of the other components is unformed sexual energy. Sexuality takes time to crystalize into a real goal directed drive, so in the early stages of puberty, that energy just flows into other activities. Activities that suddenly become really, intensely, urgent :)

Way back in 1986, Barbara Ehrenreich wrote Re-Making Love: The Feminization of Sex, an excellent book about historical changes in sexual culture. There's a whole (fascinating) chapter on "hysteria" over musicians. If I recall correctly, she argues that Beatlemania was actually a subversive expression of sexual defiance. But you should read the book.

I'm so glad somebody brought up Susan J. Douglas' "Where the Girls Are" - that book is amazing and the chapter on Beatlemania is especially revealing. "Girl culture" tends to get the short end of the stick in most pop culture analysis. However, I think a lot more crap is marketed towards teen girls than towards teen boys. (Britney Spears, anyone?)

At the end of the day, I think for most girls idolizing a boy band is relatively harmless and, as somebody else pointed out, indicative of a need to bond with other girls over something abstract and to explore feelings for boys. I was a huge Hanson fan in middle school, and it was definitely a escapist thing for me.

However, I will say that my experience as specifically a Hanson fan taught me quite a bit about sexism and gender roles long before I studied them in college. The Hanson brothers, at least when they first became popular, looked extremely androgynous. And everyone from MTV VJs to the boys in my sixth-grade math class said that Hanson "sucked" purely because they "look/sound like girls." (That was the first time I heard the term "gay" used pejoratively.) I got picked on all the time for liking a "girly band." I don't think the backlash against other teen bands of that era was as intense as it was for Hanson, and it was largely because they had traditionally feminine traits (long hair and higher-pitched voices). It really struck me that their "femininity" was perceived as such an enormous threat.

That gets back to the appeal of the Beatles, who were seen as nonthreatening by women partly because they had a fairly androgynous look, and were thus as a threat by society because this type of androgyny produced so much excitement and hysteria among young women. And that goes back to the whole "but girls' culture is supposed to be pink and stupid and pointless!" argument I too often see...

I'm not particularly impressed by the Jonas Brothers (or the whole Disney teen pop machine), but since history has a tendency to write off whatever teen girls like or enjoy, I'm tempted to give those girls the benefit of the doubt.

Who else still doesn't know who the fuck the Jonas brothers are (despite having what might be a fairly accurate preconceived notion) and doesn't feel like bothering to google them? I guess I've just reached a point at which teen idols have started too look like pallid copies of earlier ones. That, and I've long ceased to be "with it" - whatever "it" is these days (marketing for the Disney corporation, perhaps?).

Ehrenreich's theory sounds interesting, but the idea that the pop culture industrial complex is exploiting what was originally subversive expression of sexuality makes the phenomenon seem all the more disturbing.

Lauren, if you read

"What is it about those teen years that creates such a capacity for obsessive, religious-like worship of mediocre bands? I mean, even if they were the best musicians/dancers ever and total heartthrobs, would it really constitute sitting out on the NYC sidewalk for fifteen hours on the hottest night ever?"

as

"Why are those teenage girls so crazy, irrational, overemotional, and deluded as to like these bands that I, in my position of superiority and inherent objectivity, deem mediocre? I mean, even if we control for the inherent weakness of their feeble brains to sex appeal, their actions are- let me repeat- crazy, irrational, overemotional, and deluded.",

then that's an issue of your reading comprehension, not anything that Courtney said.

I think the teenage "hysteria" over musical acts is a combination of things, maybe bonding like some people said, beginning to express your personality, and also the fact that everyone else is doing it and you get caught up in the mob mentality as well. That was never me... Maybe because I've never been one to look up to someone just because they can do something when I can do it just as well. They just happen to be famous.

I have a theory, but this is just me:

I think that there is a large degre of identity formation that goes on during the years in which most girls (and boys) go through their most extreme forms of hysteria and fanaticism. WHile this is an ongoing part of both adult and childhood development 8-16 are confronted with numerous tensions through which they need to nartrate a version of themselves. Sexuality (burgeoning and perhaps more hormonally and impulsive than at later points in life) is a huge motivator. Girls (and boys) need to see themselves as sexual beings and express themselves as this. Performing these new identities and sexualities are a huge part of their everyday experience. Performing independence, coming of age by going to concerts wqith teenagers is also part of identity and sense of self formation.

At the same time the kids at this age are extremely vulnerable to peer prerssure, groupthink and marketing. It is not that they don't have minds of their own, it is rather that in trying to develop identity and use what is around them to substantiate and express this. They are also disciplined by rejection or teasing if they deviate too far from teh acepted norms amongst their peers. Some kids are better than others at maintaining confidence or redirecting the negative feedback that comes their way, but at the end of the day, these kids are policing their own socialization amongst themselves while drawing on the rest of their social environment -parents, schoool, ads, etc.

Children in this age range also exhibit the tendency to still be able exercize in much imagination and fantasy play and logical, rational and mechanical games. This shows they exist in a place inbetween childhood and adulthood, fantasy and reality. Thus the experience of being a fan, listening to music, watching MTV Cribs or going to a concert is differently experienced by them than it would be for an adult. For me, now when I go to a concert, the concert starts, I enjoy it,the concert ends, I go home. Maybe I buy the album or I think about it for a few days, maybe even remeniss about it years later with the friend i went with. But it is a delineated experience with a start and an end. I think tweens experience this in a much larger, much more fantastical way. The concert is so powerful because before during and after they can use it as an imaginative deveice: they are hanging out with the Jonas brothers, they are friends, they are pulled up onstage singing out the lyrics to an adoring crowd. Like when they watch Cribs, they can pretend that that's their dream house. Like the way they play with dolls or cars, it is part of a larger imaginative world that uses these tangents with reality (the toy, the show) to reify fantasy. This is thus also related to identity. It is facilitated in a society such as ours where children observe that identity can be built by being consumed or bought,from the behaviour of parents and those around them as well as corporations.

As well I think that this is idolatry, while I don't particularly mean it with any of the rergular conotations that go along with it. It is a religious-like experience. It is being part of a larger movement where others are also directing their energy towards a higher 'power'. It is also abbout absolutes. The Jonas Brothers for a girl in line are built in their fantasy as THE BEST BAND EVER. Full stop. (Until the next best band ever come along perhaps but the temporary idol performs the same in this case). The lack of experience and rush of hormones combined with the strong psychological identity formation, sexuality and fantasy pulls mentioned earlier help facilitate the creation of absolutes. Thismeans that the fevor for this band can't be toned down by telling the child it's 'just a band.'

Lastly, most of these kids don't have the money to buy Jonas Brother tickets unless their parent give them some. Also, most of them probably didn't sneak out of the house to wait in line. Parents will go with their kids to wait in line to buy tickets and to the concerts. When parents support this fan hysteria, even whilst rolling hteir eyes, they are building up this part of their child's identity. Which is not a Bad Thing. Parents at this point in their child's lives are scared of their increasing 'irrelevence' (in their child's eyes) and many struggle to relate to their children. This may be one exercize in which they can be part of an exciting, happy, fun fantastical moment with their child which are hard to come by. At the same time it still facilitates this worship.

This is mostly drawn from reflecting on my own personal experience. I don't really think that this teen hysteria represents a "problem" or a big bad patriarchical phenomenon. At the same time I am really hoping that come the day my child reaches this age I can convince them theere are other ways of feeling good about yourself and having fun.

Being that I was never a teenage girl, I definately cannot speak with any first hand knowledge. What stuck me about the pre-teen girls quote...

"We" are totally obsessed with the Jonas Brothers.

If that girl had said that "I" am totally obsessed with them, my stomach would have turned slightly. The fact that she identifies herself with being just as obsessed as her friends tells me that each of them just wants to be part of the experience that is being a fanatic.

Since the days of the Beatles and Elvis Presley, every generation seems to have the big-hit heartthrob band that girls go crazy over. The picture shown in this post looks really exciting and I think that every generation since then craves to be part of that experience I would suspect that pre-teen girls believe that they simply have to be obsessed with some boy-band or else they're completely missing out. Insert some peer pressure to conform and media PR aimed directly at their age group and you've got 500+ pre-teens willing to camp out overnight to go see a shit-tacular, completely manufactured boy band.

Remember too that these boys are packaged and marketed like any product. There is an endless stream of programming, merch and music that causes an excitement buildup. The Jonas Brothers have deals with Target, Chevrolet, Coca-Cola, Limited Too, Verizon V-Cast, all in addition to their ubiquitous Disney merchandising.

Everywhere I went school shopping with my daughter this weekend, there were cross-promotions with stores and clothing lines. I know all their names and have heard several songs off of the new album, some of them twice, without even trying. As a mother, there is a temptation to encourage the obsession--after all, these are cute, non-threatening, well-dressed young men who say all the right things and don't curse or put down girls in their music.

There is obviously the element of being a part of the herd. "If all these girls are screaming, I should be screaming too." Last week my 6-year-old never mentioned them, and now she's marrying one of them.

First of all, am I right in that the picture above is of The Who?

Secondly, I was hugely into classic rock in middle school and freshman year of high school. As I got more into making my OWN music and into classical music, it became just an interest rather than an obsession. But I think for me, I was constantly made fun of in middle school because I was not the most social kid and I was more interested in academics than sports or make-up. By indulging myself in music, it was sort of an "escape." If you do a quick search around MySpace, you'll find this is the case for a lot of teen music fans; it's a way of escaping bullying and other problems they have in life, and also the emotional lyrics or lifestyles of the stars in question make them feel better (after all, a lot of people go into music because they don't really fit in anywhere else in society). I'm pretty sure that this isn't the case with the Jonas Brothers (they're pretty scrubbed-clean as musicians go), but there might be some escapism in the Disney Channel stars for kids who feel like they're not understood in school.

First of all, am I right in that the picture above is of The Who?

Secondly, I was hugely into classic rock in middle school and freshman year of high school. As I got more into making my OWN music and into classical music, it became just an interest rather than an obsession. But I think for me, I was constantly made fun of in middle school because I was not the most social kid and I was more interested in academics than sports or make-up. By indulging myself in music, it was sort of an "escape." If you do a quick search around MySpace, you'll find this is the case for a lot of teen music fans.

There's also the fact that they're attractive. Middle school and high school guys are, frankly, d*cks about 99% of the time, so girls that age tend to run madly in the direction of attractive celebrities they don't know who seem like a better alternative.

I didn't mean to comment twice. My second comment was what I WANTED my first comment to say ;)