This also came up on the community page here a week or two ago.

Reading this post, I (and I am sure other readers as well) can feel Jessica's passion and anger coming through on our computer screens. Thanks for the inspiration on a lazy Monday afternoon. Sometimes, feminism doesn't need to be articulate. A simple "fuck you" is good enough!

I second that, Marc.

Not to defend the game, but regarding fat-hating...if we define fat as unhealthy as opposed to "fat" meaning not as thin as the ideal, is it really problematic to have a social stigma against fat? It hardly makes sense to so shelter self-esteem that we never tell people they should change their personally or socially destructive behaviors.

Bondo? Someone who is thin is not necessarily healthy. Nor does it mean they are healthier tan an overweight person. But being thin is glorified, while being fat or even just a bit overweight is seen as this awful, awful thing.

The focus should be on HEALTH, period, AND self-esteem. Not everyone can be thing, but that doesn't mean they are unhealthy.

"Bondo? Someone who is thin is not necessarily healthy."

That should read as "not necessarily unhealthy" d'oh!

And that last thing = thin. I am having so many issues today!

I saw this on another blog, but I never bothered to read the objective or about the play of the game.

What a fucking dumb idea. Mighty Ponygirl is being extremely generous:

"Honestly, the 'core game mechanics' are brilliant, and if I didn’t care one whit about the objectification of women or fat-bashing, I would think this was the best thing since… well, Team Fortress 2. And I’m quite sure that this describes 99% of the PSN players out there, so I’m sure the game will do very well."

Furthering what marilove said, "fat is unhealthy" is common sense doctrine that just isn't completely supported in fact. Fat can be perfectly healthy (honest). It can also be attractive.

So whichever assumption a stigma against fat is based off of, Bondo, it's not acceptable. Please don't exhaust yourself trying to save people from their "self-destructive" behaviors.

If anyone disagrees I suggest they at least try and keep an open mind while reading this: http://kateharding.net/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/ from Shapely Prose.

Re: "Fat is unhealthy and therefore fair game for ridicule."

Even if fat = unhealthy whilst thin = healthy, why would it be considered OK to mock and shame the unhealthy?

Smokers are not the butts of jokes the way fat people are, and yet smoking is undeniably unhealthy (I'm a smoker, btw).

Is the point of the ridicule simply to express one's disapproval with the fat person's assumed ill-health? If so, why does the practice not extend to smokers, people who practice unsafe sex, people who don't wear seatbelts, etc?

Or are the mockers and shamers just so concerned about the fat person's health that they feel compelled to make fun of that person until she... what?

The "health" excuse is complete and utter bullshit.

I don't mean to be taken as having a simplistic view. There is certainly a too thin with regards to health and some research suggesting people who are slightly overweight live the longest. But it is also indisputable that obesity is unhealthy.

I wouldn't advocate ridicule in any manner, but I do think at some point we have to stop saying "being obese is perfectly fine, don't trouble yourself about it." Subtle encouragement to lose weight should be just acceptable as to stop smoking, to practice safe sex, or to put on one's seatbelt, but I'm not sure it is because unlike those other examples, we've determined it to be too damaging to the self-esteem.

Bondo, no one is saying being obese is perfectly fine, but shaming and mocking WILL NOT WORK. No one is saying that education on eating right and exersizing is bad. We're all for that!

However, most people just shame the overweight and the obese (and please note that there is a difference between the two). Know who does a fantastic job of treating the obese? Richard Simmons! He promotes a healthier lifestyle without being patronizing and cruel.

There should be no focus on size and weight, because that doesn't work and because someone who is heavy may not be unhealthy. The focus should be on HEALTH -- and that includes mental health as well as physical health.

I've known perfectly skinny people who are neither too skinny nor too "fat" who have had horrible, horrible health problems. And here I am, at 5'3" and 190 or so lbs., and I'm pretty damn healthy. I rarely get sick, and I don't have a car so I walk everywhere and get plenty of exersize. And yet someone who is a stick would probably be considered healthier in most peoples' eyes, even if they truly aren't (like my mom, who is really unhealthy, but really skinny).

Anyway, kind of off-topic, but I wish the BMI shit would just GO AWAY. I am considered OBESE because of my weight and height, but I am soooo far from obese. I just carry my weight mostly in my hips, ass, and breasts (and not in my tummy), and I, along with the other women in my family, am a bit squat but solid. My calves are huge and pure muscle. I look like a softball player lmao.

Anyway. Babbling. Sorry.

Dear Feministers:
Does anyone want to venture out on why the feministing "feminist mud flap girl" logo is so skinny with cartoonishly large breasts, and a size 0 waist? I mean the raised fist and the extended finger suggests some kind of "in your face you repressive patriarchs" stance, but having Barbie giving feminist 'tude seems hypocritically inconsistent -but maybe I am missing some "secret symbology" or maybe some "we are reclaiming our power by choosing a symbol formerly used to oppress women" angle.
As a tangent, I hope the folks who believe that "pornography holds out an impossible physical standard that women are constantly compared to/compare themselves to" will acknowledge the many men who subscribe to "women of size" as their "physical ideal" -as evidenced by the many publications and internet sites (google image search: bbw art =203,000 results). These sources cater to men and women who think The Venus of Willendorf is a total hottie ...er ummm, make that "exemplifies the ultimate in physical attractiveness while respecting Her thoughts and feelings in order to embrace Her as a 'whole person' and not 'objectifying Her' as a 'fecund symbol' conveying all there is to be conceived 'bout the nature of sexually mature femininity."
I am still looking for a working definition of "pornogrphy" that is different from the ideas of Edwin Meese, Andrea Dworkin (and Prof. Jenson's for that matter).
"Pornography" is always used here along with an implied pejorative sneer, and requisite commentary about patriarchal oppression.

For now, for me, the difference between "pornography" (patriarchal, exploitive, bad, boring, predictable)
and "erotic imagery" (empowering, good, exciting, nuanced, embraced by "sex-positive feminists")
...is lighting...

Your results are solicited.

Thanks,
Marlon

"But it is also indisputable that obesity is unhealthy."

IT'S DISPUTABLE! I won't cite studies or talk about "health at every size" or not confusing obesity with other conditions that do cause health problems because it's basic (to me) and there are tons of places one could learn about that stuff. So it's just simpler for me to say that I'm "obese" by any definition and unless you have secret knowledge that me and every doctor I've ever seen are missing, I'm not going to drop dead in front of you.

Don't compare recommending I use a condom when fucking to recommending I go out of my way to eat abnormally (say, better than I or the average person eats) or exercise abnormally (say, more than I already do) just so that I can be "healthy", ie fit a standard societal definition of beauty.

There's no cupcake in my mouth as I write this. The "extra" weight I carry isn't damaging me, nor is it liable to go away without some ridiculously unnescessary/dangerous intervention. I don't need a campaign to save me. So, patronizing support of that nature is about as insulting to me as this ridiculous video game is.

And SarahMC made a great point, which is "it's bullshit."

Whew. I feel better.

To clarify that last thing, I meant even if fat *is* extremely unhealthy, like smoking, it's irrelevant, thus = bullshit.

Boooo to fat shaming. I don't care what you think of obesity itself, cruelty and ridicule are NEVER acceptable.

That being said, this game does have a positive fan base; those with feeder fetishes! They'll have loads of fun :-)

...well, that being granted can't there be a fat prince too? And maybe they're feeding her because they love her and don't want her to be stolen away? Then they can be fat and happy together!

I doubt that's the intent, unfortunately, but I'm just trying to find a positive angle...

marlon: "but maybe I am missing some "secret symbology" or maybe some "we are reclaiming our power by choosing a symbol formerly used to oppress women" angle."

Got it on the second try I believe, more or less. Call it femininity objectified giving patriarchy the middle finger. *shrug*

Are people actually saying that because fat is unhealthy it's okay to have a game that overfeeds a princess to become fat so they can protect her better???

EVEN IF being overweight or obese were a concrete indication of a person's poor health, what does that have to do with this game?
Are you telling me this game features an absurd fat woman because it's meant to inspire fat people to lose weight and "get healthy?" Judging by the reactions of many gamers (lulz!), it's not working.
Are media depictions of fat people so hate-filled and mocking because Hollywood and the ad world is just concerned about fat people's health? HAH!

My problem with Feminist Fuck You's is the emphasis on self-righteous rage rather than level-headed discussion. Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.

Luckily, level heads have prevailed over at LesbianGamers.com and SexyVideogameLand:

"Yes it's annoying she's fat, but would it be any less annoying if the princess were svelte, perfect and large breasted? This is the usual issue the female gamer faces. Is Fat Princess objectifying women any more than say Tomb Raider or Soul Calibur? Is it fat bashing to utilize a game mechanic wherein one of the characters is fattened up, but the main objective is to rescue her because she's loved so much?"
- Bitchy McBitch of Lesbian Gamers

Anger is one of the easiest reactions to have; it is also one of the most useless.

Hate to disagree with you Marcus, but I think anger can be a useful reaction. Anger is what fuels many movements for social change. It's just a matter of what you do with the anger.

Marcus - allow me to counter. I, too, used to think that sometimes the feminist movement seems too angry and that we should focus more on "reaching out" and having rational discussion. However, a dear friend of mine pointed something out that changed my perspective: we've been living with privilege that a great deal of many women live without.

Imagine living all your life being told your opinions don't matter, constantly being judged based on your bodies and looks, being viewed as of being less important than 50 percent of the population; imagine being harrassed all the time, and living your life with very view people listening to your actual opinions. Instead, they are always looking to counter your argument than truly listening to you. Would you be pissed off and let off steam now and then?

My point exactly.

Here is the tagline game description from Playstation “Frantic and fun, Fat Princess pits two hordes of players against each other in COMIC medieval battle royale. Your goal is to RESCUE your beloved princess from the enemy dungeon. There’s a catch though: your adversary has been stuffing her with food to fatten her up and it’s going to take most of your army working together to carry her back across the battlefield.”

Here’s my problem with this game:

1.) Why is the female figure FatPrincess, who’s the title of the game, NOT a protagonist, but rather an obstacle?
2.) Why is her “fatness” is portrayed as a PROBLEM for the players to solve?
3.) What Sony alludes to the “comic” is the Princess’ fatness. All other screenshot illustrates real blood as the hordes kill each other. Why is it that the only comical figure –the “fat” female figure?
4.) Why is food used as a leverage, something the Princess cannot choose for herself, but must be forced fed, and then made fun of?

Fuck you FatPrincess game/PlayStation, and a society that promotes and approves of this.

Solution/ How about:
1. We make the princess the heroine of the story, she battles things, and goes on adventures, and fights for worth things. How about, for once, have the Princess choose her destiny, not needing any kind of rescue, and she can decide for herself whether she wants to eat or not.
2. We can still have a range of body types, but let it be a choice. NOT forced fed. NOT something to be “comic” or ridiculed upon.

Here is the tagline game description from Playstation “Frantic and fun, Fat Princess pits two hordes of players against each other in COMIC medieval battle royale. Your goal is to RESCUE your beloved princess from the enemy dungeon. There’s a catch though: your adversary has been stuffing her with food to fatten her up and it’s going to take most of your army working together to carry her back across the battlefield.”

Here’s my problem with this game:

1.) Why is the female figure FatPrincess, who’s the title of the game, NOT a protagonist, but rather an obstacle?
2.) Why is her “fatness” is portrayed as a PROBLEM for the players to solve?
3.) What Sony alludes to the “comic” is the Princess’ fatness. All other screenshot illustrates real blood as the hordes kill each other. Why is it that the only comical figure –the “fat” female figure?
4.) Why is food used as a leverage, something the Princess cannot choose for herself, but must be forced fed, and then made fun of?

Fuck you FatPrincess game/PlayStation, and a society that promotes and approves of this.

Solution/ How about:
1. We make the princess the heroine of the story, she battles things, and goes on adventures, and fights for worth things. How about, for once, have the Princess choose her destiny, not needing any kind of rescue, and she can decide for herself whether she wants to eat or not.
2. We can still have a range of body types, but let it be a choice. NOT forced fed. NOT something to be “comic” or ridiculed upon.

Hey! "Feminists outraged" made the Yahoo homepage. Some guy is blogging about the feminist backlash on this stupid game. I haven't read the article, but (and I don't really care to, honestly) it made the "mainstream" news.
http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/feminists-cry-foul-over-fat-princess/1232315

Pure silliness. If I have my information right, the game is about a princess who was kidnapped, then force-fed a lot of food to make her difficult to rescue. Seems like a pretty cute, cartoony idea for a plot in my opinion.

First off, it's not like the princess is being portrayed in a negative light. Obviously she is still beloved by her people despite her new portly appearance, otherwise they wouldn't bother going to all the trouble of dragging her home.

In games, and in the media in general, there is not much of a place for fat people, and that's not a problem with our industry or this specific game - it's a problem with society. The instant a fat person is placed in an entertainment medium, they are likely to come off as a joke.

Because unlike real life, where people are born "randomly" with different body types, thus providing a variety of shapes and sizes that cover the entire spectrum, game characters, movie characters, comic characters - they are all created by intelligent people looking to move a product.

Nobody thinks twice when you put a "normal", skinny character in a medium - that's the norm. But put a fat character in and the cogs in viewers' brains start churning. We at least subconsciously understand that this character went through the creative process, went through numerous people who could have vetoed them, and passed through all the checks and balances that any creative kind of media goes through...and in the end, the character came out fat. That means that everyone was okay with this character being fat, and that means that they aren't fat just for the sake of being fat - they are fat for a reason.

Society at large does not like fat people. Fat people are not normal characters in games, movies, etc; fat people are "fat characters", and they tend fill three specific roles: being the butt of jokes, being pitiable and playing vulgar characters that the viewer is meant to dislike. Seldom will you see a fat character as a hero, the hero's love interest, or as anyone respectable or important. And because you never see a fat person in one of these roles, it becomes extremely noticeable, perhaps even suspicious, when a likable, important, non-joke role is filled by a fat person.

We are the sum of our experiences, and our past experiences tell us that something is up here. Some people won't be able to take a fat character seriously, and will laugh it off as a bad decision or even a joke. To others it just won't make sense, as this anomaly doesn't gel with their past experiences, the vast majority of which have never had a fat character in this kind of role. A small, intelligent handful will give it a chance...but still, the vast majority is bound not to.

So any form of entertainment that takes a fat person seriously or puts a fat person on the cover is likely to suffer significant backlash or fail. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, as society perpetuates its own twisted values: creators know that fat people won't be taken seriously, so they don't create serious fat characters, while viewers, observing a lifetime of media lacking serious fat characters, unconsciously come to the conclusion that fat characters can't be taken seriously, with the rare exception rubbing them the wrong way.

And this is exactly the reason that this game is coming under fire. According to our own society's standards, putting a fat person in any form of media must satisfy one of the following requirements: humor, pity, or loathing. None are flattering, and so having a fat person in a game means hating, poking fun at, or otherwise looking down on fat people.

Well, society, you need to get over this bullshit. Fat Princess is a cute game, and the Fat Princess herself is a cute character. She is appealing, rescuing her will be fun, and those who can get over the idea that "fat=bad" will have a great time.

I won't go so far as to say it's exclusively their fault, but the people who are complaining about Fat Princess are just perpetuating the idea that fat people are themselves a taboo, to be hidden and pitied.

CONGRATULATIONS YOU HAVE FOUND THE MOST IDIOTIC NON-ISSUE OF THE WEEK

"Imagine living all your life being told your opinions don't matter, constantly being judged based on your bodies and looks, being viewed as of being less important than 50 percent of the population; imagine being harrassed all the time, and living your life with very view people listening to your actual opinions. Instead, they are always looking to counter your argument than truly listening to you. Would you be pissed off and let off steam now and then?"

YOU HAVE JUST DESCRIBED HOW EVERY SELF-INVOLVED PERSON IN THE WORLD FEELS ABOUT THEMSELVES REGARDLESS OF AGE, RACE, OR GENDER.

Marcus: "Anger is an Energy".

Eve: Well said. Marcus you should read her post.

Ugh, I just read this article at yahoo games: http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/feminists-cry-foul-over-fat-princess/1232315

Anyway here is what they said:

"Sony has yet to issue an official response, although Joystiq did receive a particularly informative update from James Green, Fat Princess' lead art director, who clued gamers in on the origins of the game:

"Does it make it better or worse that the concept artist (who designed the look, characters, everything) is a girl?"

Hmmm...hope the game's detractors don't mind eating a bit of crow"

So because a girl is the concept artist, feminists can't be upset?

since when did he feminism and "big is beautiful" movements become the same thing?

if this game was fat prince would there even be a discussion?

How can so many claim that obesity is not unhealthy when obesity-related heart disease is the leading cause of death in the United States and the world in general?

bhlaab: "If this game was called fat prince..."

Is there any game like fat prince on the market? No? That's why there's an overlap between fat acceptance and feminism.

Eileen,

You might remember a certain insulting portrayal of fat men in the character Fat Bastard in the movie "Mike Meyer's Austin Powers 2: Spy Movie". Not that I was really all that peeved; if they'd made the character more of an educational foil for the dangers of congestive heart disease than a medly of fart jokes I might have even enjoyed the character.

We don't need things like this to make our young men any more mean-spirited when it comes to girls who don't look like Barbie dolls. (I'm a guy.) This is just mean-spirited. I am glad to see a number of men voicing their displeasure with this -- do we really want our daughters seeing our sons play this game? Especially if they are not Playboy models-in-waiting? I guess this is nothing we shouldn't expect. Young men treating young women like walking sex toys, making fun of girls who don't stack up. Young men taking delight in killing in the name of play -- and especially killing their own gender. We need to teach our sons more empathy, and a lot of these issues would go away.

And let's look at Yahoo's retort - and arguably displaying the most squalor microcosm for feminism in today's society:

{Sony has yet to issue an official response, although Joystiq did receive a particularly informative update from James Green, Fat Princess' lead art director, who clued gamers in on the origins of the game:

"Does it make it better or worse that the concept artist (who designed the look, characters, everything) is a girl?"

Hmmm...hope the game's detractors don't mind eating a bit of crow.}

You. Have. To. Be. Kidding.

bhlaab: if you're interested, go buy or borrow a detailed answer to your question.

http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Feminist-Issue-Susie-Orbach/dp/0883659875

I understand the game developers wanting to make the classic "capture the flag" game have a twist: the "flag" gains weight as an extra obstacle. But why does the object of their desire have to be the sexist cliche, damsel in distress? And why does she have no self control such that she contiually eats the cake her enemy feeds her? Is she being tortured to eat?

Two other great posts about this issue are at feministe and feminocracy:

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/23/well-that-was-bound-to-happen/

http://feminocracy.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/the-big-deal-manufacturing-a-state-of-normative-discontent/

"Is there any game like fat prince on the market? No? That's why there's an overlap between fat acceptance and feminism."

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/29/meet-tekken-6s-new-fatty-bob/

http://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Arts-The-Simpsons-Game/dp/B000QCU9IK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1217350616&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/Nintendo-South-Park/dp/B00000I1BB/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1217350661&sr=8-1

http://videogames.techfresh.net/gaming/game-trailers/rufus-new-character-in-street-fighter-4/

http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Fat_zombie

I can't believe how upset you are getting over this. I actually found this page by looking up this article. This is what is wrong with America, people get upset about something that just really does not matter.

Ok, so don't buy sony products, turn the channel, walk away; who really cares. I guess all you posting do.

It is a game and is poking fun at a real issue in our country, both men and women. Do any of you have a sense of humor?

Oh I forgot, it should be called BBW princess. Just a side note. All the posters here are very angry women it seems. There are some deep rooted issues that go way beyond this video game.

Please don't hold this against your boyfriend or husband if you are married. I can only assume that they are already well under control.

You may email me directly at steven9892 at yahoooo dot com.

Lesbians, yummy.

I just played and scored and was awarded the cup cake bonus. The girl I am dating is right here with me and she is not saying I am getting your blood pressure up and I should stop.

I am going to get the game and she is going to play with me. She is also getting a good laugh because she knows this is silly and ridiculous.

People, you take things too seriously.

I didn't realize Real Dolls could work game controllers.

Check this out:

http://inebriated-gamers.blogspot.com/

Absolutely outrageous!

It brings my blood to a boil!