I saw illdoc on the street with my boyfriend and we called out to him and he looked up at us! And then we thought he probably just wanted to go around to the corner store in peace, and ceased to stalk him- which I regret because he would probably have been pretty cool to talk to.

This video is right on. It would have been handy advice when my uncle asked me if my boyfriend was not present at Thanksgiving because he was with his illegitimate children in that half joking, but actually serious way. You know- because all black men have hoards of bastard children and baby mamas. Needless to say, I didn't handle the conversation well, and I looked like I was being sensitive. Grrr.

I can't even begin to describe how big my crush on illdoctrine. This is a good one.

I can't even begin to describe how big my crush on illdoctrine is. This is a good one.

I love help on how to hold tricky conversations effectively.

good vid. Being a devils advocate here, don't the things we do DEFINE who we are? I'm not sure they can be so easily separated...or even need to be.

He's awesome. Smart, smart, smart and so fucking cool. I hope he gets a TV show or something so the world can appreciate his awesomeness.

Yeah, I have such a crush on Jay Smooth that I read illdoctrine...a hip hop blog... and I don't particularly like hip hop.

jro- you're mostly right (although I think there's a margin of error for everyone- a thin one).

This is a bit of psychoanalysis here (and I'm no expert), but it seems to make sense that if you show someone with plain logic that they are being offensive, and may have a pattern of that behavior, rather than throwing their defenses up with an outright accusation, they are sort of forced to think about the issues and implications surrounding their actions and words. Whether or not they are or aren't a racist isn't the point, exorcising that negative thinking and behavior is.

jro- I think I sounded like I was saying there's a margin of error for you (cuz I'm at work and not paying attention). I meant that doing and saying offenseive things has a margin of error (clearly since I'm not exactly being eloquent here!). Basically, people mess up, and it doesn't always define them (although I agree it often is pretty indicative of their character as a whole).

Sorry. : )

jro, you are right. But it's impossible to prove that someone is "racist" deep down inside. Even if, judging by their actions, you know they are. Arguing with someone about what kind of person they are is futile. But words and actions are concrete, so it's better to focus on that.

I heart this dude. I'm so bad at having that conversation, too, because I get really upset with the people I generally end up having the conversation with. It's almost always my father, and I can't emotionally reconcile his overt racism and racist comments with the fact that I know he is capable of being a better person than that. So I get pissed and my ability to argue in a cogent manner goes all to hell.

Hey SarahMC- I hear you, that makes perfect sense. I guess in the end he looses me a little bit. "I don't care who you are,I care about what you did/said". I think who we are greatly influences what will do and say- and the vice versa. But I better understand now how distinguishing between the two conversations (what you did, who you are) can make for a more persuasive argument.

I completely disagree with jiro. Our actions don't define who we are. My drum teacher taught me that before, and although I didn't understand at first, I do now. I hope one day you'll understand, that someone who lies isn't a liar and someone who murders isn't a murderer.

However, if someone has sexist or racist tendencies, they are considered a sexist and/or a racist. Because those to things are a psychological problem. A real fault in the way they were brought up and the way they see the World. Just like a compulsive liar is, indeed, a liar. But someone who steals your wallet isn't a theif. I guess I consider sexist and racist as valid titles because they aren't only actions, they're world views.

that someone who lies isn't a liar and someone who murders isn't a murderer.

I really hope you're being sarcastic, because, taken at face value, this statement makes no sense.

I want this guy to teach classes to young people.

And I am totally turned on by his brain. *swoon*

And I know we've already said it but everyone believes they are a good person. Hitler thought he was a good person. His actions would show otherwise but if we said to Hitler, "dude you are evil." He'd say, "no I'm not, I love my dogs and my girlfriend thinks I'm the best." So to turn it and say "Dude your actions are completely evil and inexcusable." What would his response be? "Maybe they are evil BUT I have a reason." Which would open up the argument that you can't ever be evil regardless of your reason. A totally ineloquent attempt to work of the thief stealing the wallet example.

Our actions and words are indicative of our characters, but not definitive. When MissLinear says "someone who murders isn't a murderer," I read that as saying someone who has in fact murdered once isn't necessarily captured by the label "murderer." They don't murder everyone they come into contact with. Except in the case of a serial killer, perhaps, their lives aren't defined by murder. It's really easy to call someone a racist or a sexist in a way that paints their entire personality with a single brush, but on some level it's too easy. Not only does it give them an easy out without being accountable for their actions, as the vid says, but it means the accuser doesn't have to do any thinking, either. There's no argument, just accusation.

Maggie: I'm glad you understood.

It's just funny how we instantly call someone things like "liar". To me, this really makes no sense at all. Even if you take someone who lies frequently, unless he's a compulsive liar, he's going to tell the truth more often than not when you add it all up. Labels like "murderer" and "liar" just don't make sense to me, because it's not a way of thinking. Sexism and racism is more of a distorted point of view, so that at least makes a bit of sense. That's easy to see when you take someone who can sometimes make sexist jokes, but still treats you with respect. I have a friend like that... He's not a sexist, because that's not how he SEES things. He jokes about it, but when push comes to shove, he doesn't agree with it himself.

For the "murderer" label, it's easy to see how that doesn't make sense when you take say, a psychopath. Psychopaths, having no empathy or sense of attachment, can easily kill another human being. Doesn't mean they will. A psychopath can live his/her entire life without killing a single person. Being a psychopath is the way a person is, and it makes it more likely that they commit the action of murder (directly or indirectly). But that doesn't mean they will commit that action...

I think some labels belong out there. I think that a psychopath should be called a psychopath and that a compulsive liar should be called as such. But "murderer", "abuser", "theif", "liar" (except for compulsive liar, since it's a mental disorder), are just such ridiculous labels that really mean absolutely nothing. =/ That's my rant.

I heart this dude. I'm so bad at having that conversation, too, because I get really upset with the people I generally end up having the conversation with. It's almost always my father, and I can't emotionally reconcile his overt racism and racist comments with the fact that I know he is capable of being a better person than that. So I get pissed and my ability to argue in a cogent manner goes all to hell.

Which is why I love the internet: more often than not I can say what I think rather than becoming incoherent. Though I have a real problem with writing what I think, fairly politely I think but still it's often controversial and I get so stressed by arguments that can lasts weeks via forums that I just don't go back. I feel like a coward, though I know I'd get into it if I went back :P

MissLinear: I see what you mean, even if I don't agree 100%. There are plenty of people who are racist/sexist, and as it's a worldview of many decades that's unlikely to change.

Also, I think "liar" can be very appropriate. I label my employer a liar because it burns me seeing him lie smoothly and compulsively to cover his arse/make himself look better. He's in his late 40's, a veterinarian, who definitely has something wrong with him in his pathological inability to concentrate (he didn't used to be like this, as per my co-worker). He has no real social skills, somewhat like David Brent from The Office in social situations. Can't handle being questioned, doesn't actually seem to understand good-natured ribbing, though he's happy to make fun of you. I am a terrible liar and have no wish to improve upon my skills, watching him make stuff up that I know are lies so he looks good makes me hate him sometimes.

As for being a murderer... I know, as much as one can in theory (no one can know, I don't care what anyone says) I could and would kill anyone who raped me. Equally, being in the Naval Reserve I believe I could shoot unarmed people if ordered to - it's the job I signed up for, even if highly unlikely (we never do active service, but reservists have been used in riots in NZ before), and I can deal with the emotional consequences later. But I would not label myself a murderer (even if I'd killed someone) as that has connotations of killing for pleasure/convenience and I would not do that.

OK, that's a fucking huge ramble, I can't be bothered proof-reading it sorry!

P.S. I can't believe I forgot! I