I am totally with you on this one, Jessica, as usual. Not only that but the photo TOTALLY creeps me out. And I am probably a creep to most of the people on this blog. VOTE DEMOCRATIC...your misogynist-feminist pal, CNBC Sucks

As I read this, I finally put together what bothers me the most about these articles on purity balls: they all make it so clear that these balls are not about fathers and daughters, but about the publicity opportunities for the purity "cause". The paragraph about the number of photographers and the BBC recording this "private decision" between father and daughter make it clear that this totally transcends personal decision and becomes societal.

I am continuously baffled by people who insist on separating these events from the "memories" they're making. "Purity Ball" is not a cover story for "daddy/daughter picnic." This event has a very clear agenda and it's not just quality time.

I've often wondered with these lock/key types, if the daughter decides to marry someone whom the father does not approve, is there ever an uncomfortable talk where he refuses to give up his daughter's virginity?

So when are we going to get the purity
balls for boys and their mothers? Or
Fathers and their sons?

You know they are doing all the work on the
girls, where is the pressure on the boys?

I mean really, this purity thing should
extend to the boys. Maybe a father son
wrestling match.

You know how sometimes the people who are
insisting most about something like "purity"
are the ones who are the LEAST "pure"?

Think about Dr. Laura talking about the
importance of staying married. (She's
divorced).
Children honoring their
parents (Her mom died alone and rotted
in a condo for months until someone found her),
No sex before marriage (her nude photos
on the net).
The importance of being "Her
Kid's mom" to instill good moral values
in her son, (Her son is a marine with some
sick, sick images and comments on his Myspace page.

Maybe we should look into the backgrounds of the
people who are into these purity balls.
Both the men AND the women. I'm guessing that
they have been abused or psychologically damaged in some fashion that led them to do this.

They should upgrade from bracelets to...I don't know...maybe, like, belts? Around their naughty bits? That would certainly be a modern solution.

But spocko, boys don't have hymens that can be "broken" so they don't have anything "pure" to worry about losing! What that have are "integrity" balls where they're told not to dirty up some other guys potential property cause they wouldn't want someone to do that to their property.

And Gibbs totally misses the point and I'm beginning to wonder when the MSM will ever become objective again.

Purity is certainly a loaded word--but is there anyone who thinks it's a good idea for 12-year-olds to have sex?

It's been brought up but why o' why do people think that all young girls are going to become sex crazed maniacs if they know they have the option to have sex before marriage? Why, when they're making an "example" are the girls always within the pre-teen and early teen range? (like, when do you ever hear, "but is there anyone who thinks it's a good idea for 17-year-olds to have sex?). They use it to scare parents and society. TWELVE YEAR OLDS WILL BE FUCKING IN THE STREETS UNLESS DADDY PUTS A STOP TO IT!

And the covering of the heart? I shuddered. Must women always be protrayed as something that needs to be "protected" And what the fuck are they being protected from? A broken heart? There are many women who can attest that marriage doesn't spare you that.

ZOMG this is frustrating on so many levels.

The first anecdote makes more sense if you replace the word "heart" with "vagina" throughout.

I'm a literal person and don't much care for innuendo!

This write up misses one of the quotes that most demonstrates why I'm so uncomfortable with these purity balls.

"One man is dancing with his younger daughter, wishing his older girl had come as well. She used to wear a purity ring, he says, until a boy she knew assaulted her; she took it off--felt too dirty. Her parents gave her a new one, a bigger one; it took many months and much therapy, her father goes on, before she was able to put a ring on again. 'That was part of a healing process,' he says, 'with the message that you're valuable no matter what someone did to you.'"

When you tell these girls and young women that their value lies in their sexuality - in their "purity" - they view themselves to be damaged goods even in circumstances that they had no control over. It goes beyond sexual assault. If a young woman has a consensual sexual encounter that perhaps she regrets because the circumstances weren't ideal (Note: This is not to say that teenagers can't have positive, informed sexual experiences), she's now "tainted" and can never get back what she lost. Virginity is not a trophy to be passed from father to husband.

One issue in the article that really bothered me, along with everything else, was the discussion of the teen girl who wore a purity ring until someone sexually assaulted her and she felt she could no longer wear the ring. The article then went on to pose the story as if the purity ring then became part of the healing process because her parents gave her another ring which she later started to wear. I would guess that her story is absolutely rare because with all of the victim blaming rampant with sexual assault, it would be unlikely that most parents would not blame HER for the assault, let alone she even tell them in the first place. I imagine that in most cases of sexual assault a girl who took a purity pledge would just be even that much more traumatized and self-blaming because of the unhealthy relationship this sets up with a girl's own body: your body is not yours, but an indicator of your societal worth. Hell, even the article conflated virginity with success for girls.

Also it seems to me that this message of your body not belonging to yourself, but to male figures in your life, would only undermine any sense of personal agency and perhaps even make it more likely for them to be assaulted?

I vote we create something to subvert this trend: anyone up for agency balls? Maybe girls get to dress however they want and come with their parents to a nice dinner with music of their choice and present their own writings, art, and music.. perhaps both parents and daughters alike make pledges to strive for the daughters' senses of personal agency and accomplishment, with the idea that a world of possibilities is open to them.

I really wish the whole world could just give up the concept of virginity already. Abstinence is a very valid choice, but the whole idea of ownership of the daughter's sexuality being "passed on" to a man that her father sees fit is far too reminiscent of sex slavery; it makes me gag to read about it nearly every time.

What has always disturbed me about this issue is the way in which it is defended. Proponents of these virginity balls always site how great it is for fathers to take a proactive role in the lives of their daughters. (This exact defense was used in this article, actually.) But really, these fathers are not taking an interest in their daughters, they are taking an interest in their daughter’s hymens. If they really cared about their daughters, they would raise them to be independent, educated, informed, and (gasp!) pro-choice. Fathers who actually loved their daughters would want, beyond all else, for them to grow up and be respected and empowered women…not to grow up and define herself by their “virginity.” One thing is for sure…you’ll never find me at one of these.

Spocko is right -- anybody this concerned about "purity" has something ugly at work inside them, and that thing motivates many many more people than we'd like to believe.

Sexual/psychological damage pretty much is What's the Matter With Kansas, IMHO. And therefore doing something about it can help us solve tons of seemingly unrelated problems.

This is the same woman who wrote that the girls who made the pregnancy pact needed to get some cred for doing the 'right thing' aka, choosing to become teen mothers and not terminating their pregnancies.

The moral police is all over this article...if this isn't mother-knows-best journalism, TIME magazine is up the denial river.

Thanks Nancy Gibbs for reminding us to just suppress all rational thoughts that might respect girls and women enough to believe they know what's best for them and deserve better than being valued only for the state of the hymen at the time of their marriage....err...the transfer of property.

My favourite part is the not-so-subtle swipe at social science, which makes it sound like unfounded hocus-pocus...Except that social science actually has data to support their "practical objection: The majority of kids who make a virginity pledge, they argue, will still have sex before marriage but are less likely than other kids to use contraception, since that would involve planning ahead for something they have promised not to do. This puts them at risk for sexually transmitted diseases."
Defenders of purity balls, on the other hand, have no such statistics. And if social science is right, there's a decent change they might also have chlamydia.

This makes me feel so uncomfortable.

Much of this has already been said, but I feel moved to repeat it:
1) why focus on girls and not boys?
2) there are many other ways that fathers and daughters can bond without reference to a hymen
3) my idea of crazy-wonderful father-daughter bonding on the subject of sex would involve talking about feelings and choices and the handing over of condoms etc
4) the religious overtones were strange to me.... but I can more easily stomach the idea of a person making a pledge to god with regard to sexual behaviour or abstinence than making a pledge to or with their father about sex
5) I think we have reached a point where women and girls should be the accepted guardians of their own honour, however they wish to define it
6) I'm not all that keen on the father pledging to the daughter (rather than to god, or himself) that he won't use pornography etc either
7) does the father wear a purity ring too? Does he forfeit it if he surfs the net for porn? If he sullies his purity with such sexual behaviour, does he get barred from going the the purity ball next year?

I also had some lexical difficulty with the pledge. The imagery of the father "covering" the daughter's "purity" was unfortunate for me as I kept thinking about how in animal breeding the male "covers" the female when he mates with her. Ick.

Just sent to TIME:

My first reaction when I first heard of these "purity balls" was eeuuww, that is so creepy! And seeing the photo and reading the gushing text from Ms Gibbs reinforced that feeling. I'm a father who managed to raise two daughters in today's world--both of whom are doing quite well, thank you--without once worrying about the state of their "purity," and I think it's borderline pedophilia for these fathers to fetishize their daughter's sexuality in this way. Tell me the difference between the shot of two fathers feeling up their young daughters and the one of Warren Jeffs, the notorious polygamist, planting a not-very-fatherly kiss on a 12-year old. The one of Jeffs was rightly condemned and caused an outcry, but Ms Gibbs views the TIME shot as "A Delicate Dance." Yuck! And for Time to not only embrace it but allow your "objective" reporter to heap praise on this disgusting practice puts you right in the middle of that. These guys are creeps who are one step away from being featured on "To Catch a Predator," and TIME is just enabling that.

Eeuuwww again!

[signed]

rdale

When the economist covered this topic a few years ago they ended with a great line:
"Unless they start doing this with the boys too, the chaste will always be chased."

It drives me insane when people defend these balls by saying "it is good for dads to be involved with their daughters." There is a lot of space between not being involved and attempting to own the daughter's hymen.

The story of the girl who was assaulted almost made me cry, thinking about how she will feel in abstinence only class when the teacher compares non-virgins to used kleenex...

"Unless they start doing this with the boys too, the chaste will always be chased."

Mhm. But let Daddy hold the key - shall we stir up any more phallic imagery? Daddy's held rights to the yonic chamber all along; is it too much of a stretch to consider that this is consequential inaccessibility to one's own private parts? You'd think this would even be mollified by having both parents have a key, but then you remember that Daddy's has to be bigger and Mom just doesn't really know how to yield a fucking tool.

AP, I had a class where someone compared non-virgins to candy that had been chewed up and spat out. "you don't know where it's been! When you marry, would you rather have someone who was touched, or someone untouched?"

This absolutely plays havoc with rape survivors. I am not one, but someone I dearly love is, and this whole "untouched" thing made me sick.

As the father of a pre-teen, I can understand some of the innate and societal pressures that contribute to such a misguided movement.

I love my children and want nothing more than to protect them from all the potential harms which may befall them. Beyond that, my daughter and I are close. She confides in me and looks to me for advice. I understand the protective impulse at play here.

That said, these balls are just creepy. The goal needs to be much broader than just preventing ones daughter from sexual involvement. I want to protect my kids from is getting involved in any unhealthy relationships. This means both teaching them to avoid sexual activity that they are not ready for; that may leave them feeling used or that harm their emotional state and helping them understand what a positive relationship looks and feels like.

Therefore, why would any loving father teach his daughter that this type of patriarchal, sexually controlling behavior is how the men in her world are supposed to act? Even if you are the most upright person, these warped priorities set your daughter to respond in an emotionally positive way to the classic behaviors of some really oppressive guys.

I have seen too many female friends and relatives waste years (and acquire emotional scars) with emotionally controlling, sex obsessed, paranoid men. And I can't help but see this behavior reflected strongly in the purity ball movement. I have to wonder how many of the purity ball girls are going to end up with "every breath you take" as the first dance at their wedding reception.

"When you marry, would you rather have someone who was touched, or someone untouched?"

Bettered, yet, by the machine-to-save-the-world comparison: two minutes left...two machines...care to try the one that you know does work than the one that doesn't?

Of course, it's an absurd premise - but so is the idea that girls (I'm reminded of a Ballardian idea here, where sex, the vagina, is architectural...thus inhabitable and capable of being dilapidated like a car or public/private space) are markedly ruined by fornication.

Yechhh... I grew up Southern Baptist in the 90's, and was of course a "True Love Waits" pledge - glad this particular grossness hadn't taken hold yet. True Love Waits was at least aimed at both sexes, and encouraged people who were not still virgins to pledge abstinence till marriage anyway, that all was forgiven. Yeah, pretty ridiculous, but less psychologically harmful than this crap.

I'm probably more personally "conservative" than most Feministing posters, but given the environment I grew up in and what I saw it do to some of my peers, deeply appreciate what good information and a non-judgmental attitude can do to save young women a lifetime of hurt. My pragmatic German fiance and I plan to be open with our kids, to make sure that they know we won't be upset if they do have sex much younger than we were, and that what we want most for them in all that is not to limit their future possibilities by bad judgment.

Give a girl good reasons not to get pregnant (better possibilities for a bright future) and the tools to make is possible, and sensible behavior will be more likely to follow. I'm sure the drastically lower rates of both teen pregnancy AND teen abortions that Germany and the Netherlands enjoy compared to the US are familiar to you guys and gals.

siobhan said: I really wish the whole world could just give up the concept of virginity already. Abstinence is a very valid choice, but the whole idea of ownership of the daughter's sexuality being "passed on" to a man that her father sees fit is far too reminiscent of sex slavery; it makes me gag to read about it nearly every time.

That is a really interesting question - how can we talk about making informed sexual choices that can include abstinence in a way that doesn't make virginity a thing you "have" or "protect" or "lose" (that always makes me think you could say "I found my virginity! It was behind the couch all along!")

While I think there's nothing wrong with encouraging kids to consider abstinence (this goes for both sexes!) until they're a wee bit older, this idea takes it all the way in the wrong direction.

It's not like they're celebrating virginity as a choice, they're showcasing the "worth" of their daughters by announcing their virginity. This way everyone can know that so-and-so's daughter is worth a dozen cattle and a Lexus (or what have you). If you want her, she's in untouched condition! So, yet again, girls are owned by their daddies until they're relinquished to another man.

Party, party...

Lets suppress your sexual side in a very unhealthy way which is so called "purity." But to me this control, plain and simple.

Everyone who has commented so far has asked about, "what about the boys?" What about a boys purity ball?

The very sad thing is that many of these girls in these purity balls believe that a man will come to them and help them just like their Dads. This is very sad because again this is taking away from the self love factor which is not taught among young girls. When I was 15 years old I clearly remember saying, "I am going to do everything on my own and not rely on man." This led me to get my MA by the time I was 24 years old and now I am in the process of starting a nonprofit. Its about nurture your own garden, loving and celebrating YOU!

"That is a really interesting question - how can we talk about making informed sexual choices that can include abstinence in a way that doesn't make virginity a thing you "have" or "protect" or "lose"

The difficulty, of course, being that abstinence tends to preclude an idea of virginity. I see no problem with imagining a positive scenario where somebody wants to abstinent after having sex...or whereas abstinence takes on a feminist calling, aligning as something sacred to the girl - and not the father. Then again, I can also imagine a fitting scenario where sex is removed as an end-all, a teleology of love, and where sex is simply relegated to just another sexual act and not some historic apogee.

All of these, inevitably, are not adequate corollaries of promise rings and purity balls.

I can so clearly visualize how this went down. Ms. Nancy Gibbs trots over to Colorado Springs, sixth most conservative city in the country, for an evening at the "rich white folks club" (aka The Broadmoor). And my, how impressive everything is! How CLEAN and polite and expensive and--dare I say it?--pure.

It's very easy to buy into the illusion of rich, white, conservative Christians. They have the money to fabricate any fantasy they want, including the idea that Purity Balls are somehow a healthy spiritual practice. They'll even buy themselves some frolicking child ballerinas, just to emphasize how innocent the whole affair is.

So Nancy Gibbs got sucked into the fantasy. It's easy to do, especially if you're a willing participant. After all, the world of choices and autonomy is such an ugly, scary place--it's much easier to pretend that right and wrong fall on either side of a clearly drawn line, that Jesus was white, and at the end of the day, money buys happiness.

I read this article today. I thought the photo you've got on the page here is totally creepy.

I subscribe to Time and the first thing I saw when I flipped it open was this article. Naturally I sped through it and began to formulate a letter-to-the-editor in my head (sent it this morning). After reading this thread I want to write ten more because there are so many angles from which to attack this trend.

Yesterday I watched the Family Guy episode where Lois is banned from the h.s. for teaching a comprehensive sex-ed class. Peter buys into the Abstinence Until Marriage message, buys himself a chastity belts, and tries to fuck Lois in the ear to preserve his "purity."

It's a symbol of my father giving up the covering of my heart

Her father is her pericardium?

I love how some of these purity balls have the premise that the Dads pledge to remain faithful to their wives.

I just want someone to acknowledge that monogamous, premarital sex and CHEATING are two VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. You cannot compare them.

Oh my goodness the little girls look drugged in that photo...

Her father is her pericardium?

:) Laughed. Out. Loud.

The word "creepy" is so ubiquitous on this page I won't add to the clamor. But that pretty much sums it up for me.

The obsession with female "chastity" and "purity" hearkens back to the days when females were chattel, not worth much more than camels or cattle, so their status as "unused" was all-important. But really, haven't we moved beyond that? Shouldn't we have?

That said, sex for very young girls can often be a degrading experience, but there are ways to empower girls to control and navigate their sexuality without reviving the female-as-object mindset of old.

Fathers can and should take an interest in their daughters' self esteem and act to protect them from harm. Perhaps by conducting seminars for the BOYS in their schools about the virtues of abstinence? (heh heh heh)

She's high on Jesus' love, Rzep.

ACG, I lol'ed!

One thing I did appreciate was the quote from one of the girls' older sister, who described herself as "...more of a feminist than I thought," after criticizing the purity balls - as well as their dad, who had something like nine children by seven different women.

All right- so here's my question:

We all know that one of the underlying themes of these purity balls is a father's ownership of his daughter's hymen---

What happens if the hymen is damaged for any other reason besides sex. Most young women today are active people- swimming, riding bicycles, riding horses, doing gymnastics, what-have-you. And many of these same women use tampons every month. Obviously all of these activities could lead to a broken hymen. What's next, a lottery held at the purity ball for free hymenoplasty for those girls whose "virginity" was taken by a bicycle instead of a boy?

Oh, and the picture is creepy as Heck. The little girl on the right looks like she is 6yo. How do these fathers expect to relay the message of sexual "purity" to their daughters at this age if most (I'm willing to bet) won't even broach the subject (of sex) until the girl is in puberty? I guess this is an annual event for some families?

I find it interesting that in the first paragraph it talks about girls wearing their first high heels--shoes designed to make them look older and more sexual. I have the feeling that most of these girls just want a new dress and to go to a social event. I daresay many of them are too young to take the events to heart.

How about the dad who has nine children by seven women? "Do as I say and not as I do" indeed.

It does mention that boys' events are growing in number. In our church, I've seen a couple of these and they are usually father-son events. In fact, almost every event offered to teenagers by Christian groups that I've seen recently revolve around purity and sexual behavior. This, to me, underestimates the minds and spirituality of young people to indicate that there are no more important spiritual topics to discuss.

I told my daughters that no one has the right to hurt their body, nor to tell them what to do with it--including telling them to deny themselves pleasure. They know they are valuable because I treat them, daily, as if they are, and they will be no matter what. I didn't need a ring, locket, or thousand-dollar dance to share that with them either.

Her father is her pericardium?

:) Laughed. Out. Loud.

The word "creepy" is so ubiquitous on this page I won't add to the clamor. But that pretty much sums it up for me.

The obsession with female "chastity" and "purity" hearkens back to the days when females were chattel, not worth much more than camels or cattle, so their status as "unused" was all-important. But really, haven't we moved beyond that? Shouldn't we have?

That said, sex for very young girls can often be a degrading experience, but there are ways to empower girls to control and navigate their sexuality without reviving the female-as-object mindset of old.

Fathers can and should take an interest in their daughters' self esteem and act to protect them from harm. Perhaps by conducting seminars for the BOYS in their schools about the virtues of abstinence? (heh heh heh)

The word "creepy" is so ubiquitous on this page I won't add to the clamor. But that pretty much sums it up for me.

The obsession with female "chastity" and "purity" hearkens back to the days when females were chattel, not worth much more than camels or cattle, so their status as "unused" was all-important. But really, haven't we moved beyond that? Shouldn't we have?

That said, sex for very young girls can often be a degrading experience, but there are ways to empower girls to control and navigate their sexuality without reviving the female-as-object mindset of old.

Fathers can and should take an interest in their daughters' self esteem and act to protect them from harm. Perhaps by conducting seminars for the BOYS in their schools about the virtues of abstinence? (heh heh heh)

Since it hasn't been mentioned, I'll just briefly point out that the whole thing is not only creepy but also yet another instance of compulsory heterosexuality (queer kids and parents need not apply). And, I feel very sorry for girls who never marry since they remain daddy's property for life.

Here's the email I just sent, subject: The Fetish of Teen Girl Purity.

Dear Editor,

I have nothing against parents who wish to educate their children on responsible sexuality. I have nothing against parents who ask their children to remain safe and to have respect for themselves. But there is just something wrong with having children hand their sexualities over to their parents, instead of empowering them to make mature decisions.

Your article "The Pursuit of Teen Girl Purity" says, "Three of his daughters are with him tonight, including 10-year-old Taylor. I asked what purity means to her. 'I don't really know,' she says, and she's shy about talking about all this. 'But it means you make a promise to your dad to be a virgin until you are married and not have a lot of boyfriends.'" This isn't teaching a child responsibility or maturity, this is teaching her that daddy owns her sexuality.

And don't even try to say this isn't a gender issue: "They gave her a charm for her bracelet--a lock in the shape of a heart. Her father has the key. 'On my wedding day, he'll give it to my husband,' she explains." If this isn't a gender issue, this wouldn't be about girls and their fathers, it would be about girls and boys and their fathers and mothers. But there are no little boys mentioned in this story. None.

Running stories that glamorizes "teen girl purity" without mentioning teenage sexual responsibility will only give readers the impression that yours is a news source that fetishizes young teen virgins. I don't think that's an image Time needs.

Marteani commented at July 21, 2008 2:21 PM: "I've often wondered with these lock/key types, if the daughter decides to marry someone whom the father does not approve, is there ever an uncomfortable talk where he refuses to give up his daughter's virginity?"

Or what about when the father's all enthusiastic about giving the key to a "good provider" ("he can pick up where I left off!") whom the daughter doesn't want...?

Lisa commented at July 21, 2008 3:04 PM: "This write up misses one of the quotes that most demonstrates why I'm so uncomfortable with these purity balls.

"'One man is dancing with his younger daughter, wishing his older girl had come as well. She used to wear a purity ring, he says, until a boy she knew assaulted her; she took it off--felt too dirty. Her parents gave her a new one, a bigger one; it took many months and much therapy, her father goes on, before she was able to put a ring on again. 'That was part of a healing process,' he says, 'with the message that you're valuable no matter what someone did to you.'"

Why'd he wish she came as well? Does he just mean he wish she wasn't raped, does he mean he wish the hosts had invited her instead of rejecting her for being raped, or does he mean he wish she'd accepted the invitation instead of not wanting to attend a party about hymens?

one fish two fish commented at July 21, 2008 3:05 PM: "I would guess that her story is absolutely rare because with all of the victim blaming rampant with sexual assault, it would be unlikely that most parents would not blame HER for the assault, let alone she even tell them in the first place."

Good point.

Siobhan commented at July 21, 2008 3:12 PM: "Abstinence is a very valid choice, but the whole idea of ownership of the daughter's sexuality being "passed on" to a man that her father sees fit is far too reminiscent of sex slavery"

It reminds me even more of incest than of slavery, what with a girl's father and husband treating each other as counterparts...

Emily commented at July 21, 2008 3:17 PM: "Proponents of these virginity balls always site how great it is for fathers to take a proactive role in the lives of their daughters. (This exact defense was used in this article, actually.)"

I wonder how much of this comes from strict gender roles attached to non-sexual stuff. When a father's telling his daughter that almost every leisure activity is either too masculine for her or too feminine for him, there's not much left for him to do when trying to be proactive in her life...

gemma commented at July 21, 2008 3:41 PM: "The imagery of the father 'covering' the daughter's 'purity' was unfortunate for me as I kept thinking about how in animal breeding the male 'covers' the female when he mates with her. Ick."

I thought that in animal breeding the female's owner "covers" her when arranging for her to be bred (see x364173's comment at July 16, 2008 2:14 PM to "Anti-Feminism on a Pre-Teen Howrse Forum," http://community.feministing.com/2008/07/anti-feminism-on-a-pre-teen-ho.html ). Now I wonder how many of these fathers are trying to get purebred grandchildren when choosing which men to give the keys to...

Hey, anyone writing to TIME might like to check out this link http://www.hollywoodpurityball.com/whatis.php, and quote this segment.

"What is a Purity Ball?
A Purity Ball, now in 49 states and funded by your tax dollars, is an evangelical prom/wedding hybrid attended by young girls (starting at 4 years old) and their dates: their Dads. The girls exchange rings, take vows, and pledge their most precious gift, their virginity, to their fathers. In turn, the fathers pledge to guard this most precious gift until their daughter marries and her sexuality transfers to her husband."

WTFG????? 'sexuality transfers to her husband'... I mean, there are no pretences here, are there? This is the most explicit statement that all the discomfort is valid that I've ever seen. This was the first link I clicked on, as well... Check out the image on the page, too!

Re: one fish two fish's quote

"Hell, even the article conflated virginity with success for girls."

And that sums up why we don't see purity balls for boys. Celebrations between parents and sons are more often based on successes they've actively achieved. Boys face some restrictions in that they are usually restricted to acceptably masculine pursuits like sports, academics, and financial success. They tend to be personal accomplishments for the individual. But what is success for women? It's about what she can offer to a man (in this case her future husband). It is not a goal that she works towards, it is defined by what she does NOT do.

I am absolutely in favor of communities that push for fathers to be more involved in their daughter's lives. But why not celebrate goals that a girl or young woman achieves for herself?

Oh goodness. Ew. EW.

I am very close with my dad, and as a fairly young adult, in some ways he is still not quite used to seeing me as an adult rather than a child. But SERIOUSLY?! I talk with him about this creepy stuff every single time its in the news or pressed upon us walking down the street. He is quite the feminist, mind you, but even as a father raising two girls in a world that is not the most hospitable to women, he doesn't see the need to protect my HYMEN, of all things. Sheesh.

The whole article is basically beyond sick, and I am incredibly disappointed in Time for running this dribble at all.

From the article:
"Purity is certainly a loaded word--but is there anyone who thinks it's a good idea for 12-year-olds to have sex?"
Well, considering that one of the girls profiled in the article was 18 and heading off to college, I think that statement is kind of missing the point. Perhaps most people, probably especially parents, do not think it is a great idea for 12 year olds to have sex. However, there are TONS of people who would think that 18 is a fine age. Or 17. Or 16... considering that is the age of consent to sexual activity in many states. Acting as though the concept of "purity" is somehow more valid because many people might agree that 12 year olds shouldn't have sex, and therefore would remain "pure," if your ideas about purity stem from sexual activity [which is a major EW anyways!], is a misrepresentation of what purity is supposed to mean in this context.

Purity doesn't necessarily mean young, or "too young" to have sex, or whatever people want to lead us to believe it does. Purity here is defined by a girl or woman's willingness to submit herself, control of herself, and control of her sexuality to first her father and then her husband. Purity here is defined by submissive gender roles. Purity here is defined by lack of agency, good obedience, and "feminine" behavior. Can we say "ew!" just one more time?

Plus, all of this stuff with the media covering it and all of the hype and filming and pictures of these allegedly "private" sexual [!!?] contracts between young women and their fathers is such a load of crap. If it's so private, why is it being featured in major news publications? Oh right, because those organizing these pedophilic get-togethers and those who aid in publicizing them [most recently Time, obviously] are actually part of a sales pitch of morals and values to a broader society. Gag me now, please.
All this accomplishes is an ongoing, socially and politically prominent discussion about SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX, LITTLE GIRLS HAVING SEX [?!!!!] every time it goes on. Foucault, anyone? These people claim to be oh-so-conservative, but is it just me, or are sexually-based discourses flourishing, even as sexual behavior is allegedly suppressed [which obviously is failing horribly]. Now all they do is talk about sex all day long; specifically, about pre-teens having sex. Why exactly are they preoccupied with this so much, again?

EEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWW!

"That is a really interesting question - how can we talk about making informed sexual choices that can include abstinence in a way that doesn't make virginity a thing you "have" or "protect" or "lose"

First of all, define virginity as an absence of sexual experience. As non-consensual "sex" is by no means sex, it doesn't count whatsoever. I htink this is far more in-line with what people really mean when they make virginity pledges, and thus precludes "technical virginity."

Second, instead of one losing their virginity, or otherwise treating it as an object, frame your first intensely sexual experience (whether intercourse, or oral) as a "crossing over" into being a sexually active being. It denotes the very real change in experience, and signifies it without passing judgment on either state.

Oddly enough, this is what my friends and I had figured out about when I was 15. I've never once said I lost my virginity. I simply crossed over.

" Teen pledgers typically do postpone having sex, have fewer partners, get pregnant less often and if they make it through high school as virgins, are twice as likely to graduate from college--so where's the downside?"

This isn't true. Right?

http://www.generationsoflight.com/generationsoflight/index.cfm?ID=47B55D1B-D8AB-457E-A74CEF82F91A9F35

The above link is to a registration form for one of these purity balls. Note that you can type in the quantity of daughters AND fathers going. Wouldn't it be a total hoot if we all 'registered' as a pair of gay dads with a daughter?

Too bad the damn form requires credit card info. (And this year's ball has already happened).

Maybe we should email the place with faux-innocent questions about they obviously don't mind two-dad families coming to their shindig.

Why is self control not taught to our children. We live in a society of instant gratification. Parents are responsible to teach sex education. My school and government never told me anything. I was never taught anything about sex except to wait until marriage and I did because I had self control. It isn't easy to wait but it is worth the wait. Sex can be a beautiful thing but our society has turned it into something cheap that is just done because our society prizes hedonism. No one wants to tell someone about the psychological harm sex at a young age can have on you. That is not an issue that is discussed because we do have rights. You choose to have sex and there are consequences for that decision.

David, what is right for you might not be right for everyone. Yes, you do have to accept your own consequences for sex. That's what should be taught, not 'just hold it till you're married'. I think people do want to talk about the psychological effects, but that's just me.

Is it just me or does it look like those dads are choking their daughters? I guess the image is fitting for the article then.

David, please, honestly. The barrage of messages normalizing unhealthy images of sex to kids has no more to do with teaching them that self-control is overrated than all this purity/abstinence bullshit has to do with teaching them that self-control is paramount. It's all about transferring their sexual agency -- particularly the girls' sexual agency -- to people other than themselves: on one side, to the media, the opposite sex, and the public eye in general; and on the other side, to their fathers and husbands. You're not going to win any of them back by acting like they've fallen in among the damned by giving or getting a handjob on graduation night; trust me, they're getting enough of that as it is. If you want kids to learn informed and responsible decision-making, don't throw crap slogans and threats at them and guilt them into playing along. Give them a genuine sense of self-respect, one that doesn't hinge on their virginity, and for God's sake give them some fucking information.

Misspelled commented at July 21, 2008 7:40 PM: "Give them a genuine sense of self-respect, one that doesn't hinge on their virginity, and for God's sake give them some fucking information."

Exactly. Besides, even the ones who do only have sex within marriage need more information than just "wait until marriage." Information about how to avoid unwanted pregnancy (not every married couple wants to conceive as often as possible, and they should know more options than just abstinence for the years between the last wanted child and the wife's menopause), information about consent (marital rape is possible and is wrong), etc.

For the "it's good for the dads to be involved in their daughter's lives" argument... you know what we did at the church my family went to when I was little?

Father-Daughter and Mother-Son dances.

No mention of virginity, no pledges. Just a fun night for getting dressed up, going out to eat at a nice restaurant, dancing, and getting your picture taken.

It breaks my heart to think they've taken such a nice idea that I have great memories of, and turned it into this horrible mess. Go back to focusing on healthy parental relationships, please!

TheNerd: I think "cover" may be used both ways judging by the quotes at the oxford english dictionary. I have picked it up from reading historical romances which sometimes mention horse breeding (I don't have anything to do with horses irl).

"The Persian Beast acquired his Faculty, by covering a Mare the Day before." (What "Faculty" he got from mating can only be guessed at?!)

versus: "Covering her with another horse, or another kind of horse."

/Aside ends.

David, what does your comment have to do with this article?

Ugh. These things are so creepy. Yay for dads who take an interest in their kids, but no father should be a shield for virginity. AND WHAT ABOUT THE BOYS? I've seen the purity ball guy's sons, and he trains them to be husbands like these girls are expecting, but there's no empasis on their "purity."

And, Kylie, sweety, that's not the key to your heart your father will be passing on to your husband; he's playing hymen relay with the man you will marry.

I forgot to add that my friend's parents made her sign a contract -- a contract! -- to stay a virgin until marriage. She was 12.

Can you imagine your wedding, if you were one of these girls? I'd feel really weird knowing that everyone, especially my father, knew that later on that night I'd be having sex for the first time.

"Abstinence Clearinghouse." As if the Purity Ball movement wasn't enough to convey that young women's bodies are commodities, let's have a clearinghouse to bring the point home.

"Abstinence Clearinghouse." As if the Purity Ball movement wasn't enough to convey that young women's bodies are commodities, let's have a clearinghouse to bring the point home.

That has to be one of the creepiest photos I've ever seen. A thousand words, etc.

Let me being with my assumption that this is may have the highest intentions, but is so.... Pedophilic, smothering, and down right.... pedophilic. Making a daughters virginity your possession (even as a father) to pass on to another guardian is just all kinds of messed up. I will reveal a conservative streak within me when I reveal that I was one of those abstinence kids. I had hoped to find a woman in my life that I could share virginity with. I didn’t view virginity as some thing that was lost or taken, but something to be shared. Her with I: I with her, two partners against the world. I never found someone to share my virginity with and my virginity became something to be shucked away. I worry about the rebellious backlash that is going to hit these 4 year olds when they hit their mid-teens. Teenagers are rebellious; even a overachiever achieving goodie two shoes like myself, even though I waited until my twenties. But I still can’t shake the feeling that I pissed away something valuable, something that I was supposed to share with only one person. I don’t know if I’m an old soul; but I feel less honorable than If I were able to be abstinent. It has nothing to do with the ladies. I feel like I was too young, to horny, and too bitter to wait for a partner who was waiting for me; a partner I never found. But then again the partners haven’t waited. I don’t know if the feministing community is going to revile me or accept me, but I fee heartbroken that I haven’t saved my virginity for a woman I love. I don’t even know if anybody understands.

I've always found these things very odd and rather creepy. One of those girls looks about six. How much does a six year old really comprehend about sex and love? Most of them are still in the all boys are icky and gross stage.

I resent the implication that young women are incapable of deciding when to become sexually active. My viginity is MINE, not my father's or my future husband's. Sex is a wonderful way of expressing love and creating new life. It should be viewed as a gift to any man you give it to regardless of if it's the first time or the thousanth time. I think telling young women to remain "pure" is just as harmful as encouraging them to have sex premuturely. Comprehensive sex education would be so much more beneficial than any event aimed at "purity."

Where are the boys during the ball? Having sex with the girls who didn't pledge?

Where are the boys during the ball? Having sex with the girls who didn't pledge?

I agree with much said above, especially Misspelled. I thought of one thing that hasn't come up yet: if the daughters and fathers are pledging to each other (the daughters to not have sex, the fathers to not have sex with anyone but their wives), what happens when a father inevitably breaks his side of the deal? Out of these thousands of men, chances are good that a significant percentage are going to have (or are currently having) a sexual "indiscretion." Once Dad has had an affair, is the daughter free to take control of her own sexuality? Realistically, reason and secondhand experience tell me that such a break in trust (above and beyond the normal trauma of a cheating parent) could be devastating to a girl's view of the world and males in general.

AHAHA! sorry, followed NettleSyrup's link, and down at the bottom of the page, it notes:

Come in "prom wear" and receive a special Purity T-shirt which says "once you pop, you can’t stop."

man. i totally want one of those shirts, so i can wear it ironically. because they can't seriously be suggesting that once you have sex, you're COMPELLED to fuck every living being you come across, are they?

wait...

That photo is barbaric. Those girls look half-dead!

Hellotampon, I agree. Being involved in this "purity movement" would put a whole lot of focus on the bride, and all of the guests would totally be thinking about it. It reminds me of something I saw about Jessica Simpson and Nick Lachey. At their wedding ceremony, I'm pretty sure the preacher sort of congratulated her or something to that effect.

These things can be taken too far, but conceptually purity balls are great. Society puts too much emphasis on sex & youth. Is there such a thing as 'informed consent' with a teenager? Has anyone ever met a teenager who was informed? About anything??? If you have then you're dealing with a world class set of teenagers. As a 20 year old lifeguard I had 13 year old girls making sexual passes at me. There were times I couldn't even go in the water.

And, btw, I think the story was down the middle. The irony of the guy with 9 kids by 7 different women taking his daughters to a purity ball was intentional.

The pity here is that because of this strange and unrealistic obsession with virginity, they're not getting the messages they ought to about deciding to have sex.

I hope that I can teach my own future daughters that they are free to sleep with whoever they want, but that there are some types of partners that are simply unwise choices. My daughters, and, anyone, really, should only have sex with people who make them feel good, never people who make them feel guilty or ashamed or ugly, always with people who respect them and talk to them about sex and sexual matters, and actively seek to make themselves a part of the whole birth control discussion... the whole deal.

The majority of the types of assholes who take their daughters to "purity balls" are the types of guys no one should ever fuck. The kinds of men that foist the whole responsibility part of sex onto women, but the whole joy of sex for men. Assholes.

Girls, like boys, should be taught to only have sex with people they trust, and make them feel good, and to always use appropriate BC and condoms, of course.

Paul commented at July 21, 2008 9:42 PM: "I feel like I was too young, to horny, and too bitter to wait for a partner who was waiting for me; a partner I never found. But then again the partners haven’t waited."

...and if you did wait, would you now feel too old for many of the ones who are waiting? :/

Personally, I can kinda relate. I'm not waiting for marriage but I am waiting for a man I want to have sex with who wants to have sex with me back - and that's a partner I've come nowhere near to finding so far even though I've been on several dates. I'd feel uncomfortable having my first kiss with, say, a divorced man instead of a young man who's also a "late bloomer" at dating (not saying my first kiss has to be his first kiss or he has to be a virgin, though), but how many guys in my age group are roughly at my level?

teacherwoman commented at July 21, 2008 11:25 PM: "Hellotampon, I agree. Being involved in this 'purity movement' would put a whole lot of focus on the bride, and all of the guests would totally be thinking about it."

I once had a coworker who was pretty loud about both her upcoming wedding and her observance of a demonimation with no-extramarital-sex rules. Giving me enough data to figure out which stain she'd most likely leave on the bedsheets didn't seem particularly modest...

I followed uplate6674's link to the page for these...events, and would like to mention a few things from their website:

1) If fathers are not able to attend, we invite Grandfathers, brothers, uncles,
and cousins to escort the young ladies. Mothers are also invited.

Translation: Moms, if your daughter's father isn't in the picture, please find some other man to protect your daughter's hymen (brother, uncle, third cousin twice removed, anything). But, if you absolutely cannot find a man, we guess you can come too.

2) "The commitment also includes their vow to protect their daughters in their choices for purity. The daughters silently commit to live pure lives before God through the symbol of laying down a white rose at the cross."

Translation: Dads, make a vow to be personally involved in the state of your daughter's hymen. Daughters, just be pretty and silent (ya know, good training for marriage).

3) "How can you measure the value of your eleven year old looking up into your eyes (as you clumsily learn the fox-trot together) with innocent, uncontainable joy, saying, 'Daddy, I'm so excited!"

No translation needed...I don't understand how anyone could possibly find this anything but creepy and wrong.

sly, I'm certain there is such thing as informed consent with teenagers, considering I was far more knowledgeable about sex than many adults I knew when I chose to start having sex at age 15. I don't know what 13 year old girls hitting on you has to do with proving that teenagers cannot be informed or consent to sexual activity. Anyone that thinks all the teenagers out there having sex are either idiots or victims is severely misinformed.

What gets me is the language on these sites. It's so over the top as to be almost ridiculous, not to mention having a definite perviness to it as well. It's all stuff like 'Their gentle, precious souls, opening out like a delicate golden lotus blossom'. Ew.

Thanks for this wonderful post and comments.
I especially agreed with the commenter who said this business is really about transferring the agency of the young girls to their fathers and then to their husbands. I worry for my girls who are 11 and 8, but I can't see any good coming out of this conservative approach. Rather I'd like to help them learn how to make healthy decisions for themselves. I want to let them learn from their mistakes like everybody else and not smother them in a distorted attempt at protection.

I was raised in a Christian fundamentalist church that taught the same thing. (This was way back in the early 80's). What started as just some stupid idea, (fathers owning their daughter's hymen) became something horrific. What routinely happened: 1. parents would urge their 15-17 year old daughters to marry (child brides) 2. any girl who was found to not be a virgin was disowned, or FORCED to marry. 3. Girls who were raped were kicked out of the church and usually disowned. Being raped didn't matter in the least, all that mattered was that the victim was no longer "worthy" and therefore discarded as garbage.
Last I heard there were almost no single teen girls in that cult. MOST of them had been dumped on the street to fend for themselves or were married with 3 kids by the time they were 18.
Suicide among the girls was also a big problem.
Patriarchal religion at it's finest = blantant sexual abuse of young women and girls.

h*yaforchoice commented at July 22, 2008 12:24 AM: "1) If fathers are not able to attend, we invite Grandfathers, brothers, uncles,
and cousins to escort the young ladies. Mothers are also invited.

"Translation: Moms, if your daughter's father isn't in the picture, please find some other man to protect your daughter's hymen (brother, uncle, third cousin twice removed, anything). But, if you absolutely cannot find a man, we guess you can come too."

...and now I'm even more reminded of a custom in which finding a girl this age a man to stop her from having premarital sex skips the relative-guarding-hymen step and goes right to finding a man to marry her to stop her from doing premarital anything. See "Africa's forced marriages" by Ticky Monekosso, BBC, 8 March, 2001, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1209099.stm :

"...Parents think to themselves: 'We live in a period when girls chase boys, have sex, produce babies, earn reputations, and shame families. The communities will not respect them and people will say we failed to fulfil our duties as parents.'

"They believe that if a girl does not marry at an early age, she will sleep with many men, and nobody will want to marry her later. Marriage is a way of keeping girls from sexual adventures, they argue..."

Thanks for posting this. I've seen so many stories on purity balls, and each one is creepier than the next.

My favorite line: "And is telling women that their moral compass lays in between their legs really setting the bar high?"

You really nailed it.

Re: sly

"These things can be taken too far, but conceptually purity balls are great. Society puts too much emphasis on sex & youth."

Don't you see the irony in this statement? Purity balls put JUST as much emphasis on girl's sexuality, but for different reasons. Whereas some elements of the greater society push women to be sexually available and provocative for men, these push them to be sexually pure for one man. Either way, their value is based in sexuality (in one case if they successfully flaunt it and the other if they can suppress it).

I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to encourage teens to wait until they are a bit older to have sex. But teaching them that their worth lies in their "purity" is not the way to do it. It will only lead to guilt complexes.

When I was a little girl (having failed miserably at piano and ballet lessons) my father took me to the library every week. And every week I'd check out 2 or 3 books. I must have been a natural feminist because my favorite reading was biographies of accomplished women. I did not verbalize it at the time, but looking back I can see that the message I was getting from my father was the OPPOSITE of purity balls bull. He was saying, essentially, that he wanted me to be smart, knowledgeable, literate, able to find information instead of being spoon fed, etc. He also probably did not want me to have sex when I was 12. But you know, he never actually said that. We talked about Eleanor Roosevelt and women scientists, not hymens.

To add to Lisa's comment, this is part of what I wrote in my letter to Time:

The Purity Ball trend and so-called Girls Gone Wild culture are two sides of the same patriarchal coin - one where males own and control female sexuality.

The solution, of course, is more feminism.

Just remember men: if you have a daughter it is your job, nay duty, to swat away menacing penises like some cock obsessed Patrick Roy.

LOL@Matthew
I almost blew coffee out my nose, thanks. ;)

I just sent this response to Time. (And props to Valenti for commenting on "Integrity Balls" in her new book. Which was awe-some, by the way!)

Dear Editor:

While Gibbs' description of purity balls in itself is disturbing [topped only by the creepy incestesque photos], what is most disturbing is Gibbs' lack of even-handed coverage. Ms. Gibbs briefly mentions similar oppurtunities cropping up for boys in the wake of purity ball mania, but the allusion goes no further. Perhaps this is because purity balls would then be recognized for what they really are---outdated attempts to further control and manipulate girls' sexual self-agency and reduce them to mere sexual objects. For the male equivalent, "Integrity Balls" co-opts the same purpose of purity balls, not by emphasizing how males can stay pure, but how males need to keep their dates/girlfriends pure for the females' future spouses. Let us call a spade a spade: Purity balls are just an attempt for male authority figures to control young, impressionable women by policing their sexual expression.

though i have to admit, this makes me think of chris rock's comments about the sole job of a father with a daughter: KEEP THE BABY OFF THE POLE! call that my unfeminist guilty pleasure.

oh, and if i ever get married again, i am wearing the biggest, puffiest, whitest, PUREST dress i can find, while my conceived-out-of-wedlock adorable daughter is my flower girl. just to take their sick icongraphy and use it myself.

Paul, thanks for sharing your story. I was moved by your openness. I have a double-shot of abstinence-only "cred" because I was not only raised in conservative (U.S.) Evangelical Christianity but am from one of those non-Western cultures you hear about with ritualized obsessions with female chastity bordering on pathology.

I found someone from a slightly less conservative but still fairly straitlaced background to "share" myself with, but I've grown to think of it as more of a sharing of sexuality than of our "virginity." I absolutely understand and feel empathy for abstinence-only positions that are based on either or both of these two ideas: (1) the body as a part of a covenant with one's God or deity, or a related spiritual path of asceticm, and (2) an expression of emotional reserve and the desire to be circumspect in one's emotional (to say nothing of physical) risks.

But I can't get behind the purity balls. These are rife--and I mean *dripping*--with the most odious sexual and patriarchical and sexist and agency-denying overtones. I'm not a big fan of screaming "pedophiliac subtext!"--and no offense meant to those who detected that subtext--because I think pro-purity balls types can interpret this as a form of hyperbole and alarmism. Fine by me. There is PLENTY wrong with these events and the motivations behind them, such that pedophilia can't make them much more grotesque than they already are.

Good luck to you.

Paul, one more thing: you write that you experience some emotional turmoil because you can't be abstinent. But you can be. Just as women have control over their bodies and should be free to make choices about them, all people--men or women--have agency and should be able to excercise it when it comes to whether or not to have a sexual encounter.

You are your own master. If you you feel that having sex is interfering with some emotional need that celibacy fulfills in you, then become celibate. Only you can decide (1) if non-marital sex and emotional/mental well-being are incompatible for you--they not may be for others, but perhaps for you, and (2) if you value one enough to give up the other.

I"m all for dads getting more involved in their daughter's lives and having a good relationship with them, but how about taking them to a museum or a sporting event? My dad took me to the library more or less on a weekly basis because I loved reading so much.

Time came late to the ball, pardon the pun. I haven't yet had the chance to read the article or the comments here, but Time not only covered the same purity ball featured in that NYTimes article a while back, they also ran a photo of the same father-daughter pair pictured in the NYT — captured at the same moment, apparently.

I understand that lots of organizations promote female sexual "purity," but you'd think two of the nation's top media outlets could have found different events for their stories. If Time wants their readers to believe that purity balls are a big (even good) thing, they'll need to work harder than this.

I am reminded of the episode of Arrested Development featuring the MotherBoy competition, in which sons and mothers dress alike and sing and dance.

Operation: HotMother.

Also: blarg. It's one thing to foster the caring and support from parent to child, it's another to put one in as the ad-hoc romantic partner.

"I'd like to help them learn how to make healthy decisions for themselves. I want to let them learn from their mistakes like everybody else and not smother them in a distorted attempt at protection."

I want the same for my kids. And if that ever does mean me being a grandfather in my 40s, and we all being financially disadvantaged (more so than now with no house, and no more college fund), well we'll just learn to deal with it. Me believing in choice certainly means I will not be pushing my daughter or my son's future partners into a decision for an abortion or adoption, no matter how pessimistic views about young parenthood or children of young mothers are. And I certainly won't be able to stop them from having sex if they do not agree to use contraception.

Recently I've read a couple of articles on Purity Balls and surprisingly (and unfortunately) most have cast a positive light on them, praising fathers for being involved with their daughters. Needless to say they are in my opinion creepy, incestuous, archaic, and blatantly anti-female. I can't wait until this "purity" phase passes.

i totally want one of those shirts

I love stenciled shirts; they look a hell of a lot hipper than transfers and cost about the same. So I took this idea and built a stencil out of it.

http://toenolla.deviantart.com/art/Hint-Not-Talkin-About-Chips-92507124

I don't think I'll get to cut it out and print any time soon because I hurt myself cutting out another stencil, but it's still rather bitchin'. I think I'll put mine on a nice pale pink.

"I can't wait until this 'purity' phase passes."

Neither can I. Unfortunately for women, young women, and the rest of us, it is not a "phase", just a continuation of the ancient obsession with female virginity and view of women and their sexuality as being under the control of the men of their household. I also wonder what happens in the case of the current boyfriend or fiance not being judged worthy by the fathers; to have the daughter/her hymen/a symbol of her protection handed over to them. Maybe they're the boys/boys' fathers who don't get invited along?

I don't think the picture - by itself - is necessarily creepy. If the circumstances were different, the photo could even be sweet. But the context definitely drops it squarely into the "ewww" ballpark.

I can't look at the photo without knowing what the father's are thinking about; their daughters vaginas, hymens and how they could be "ruined" by the insertion of a penis. It is downright perverted.
Could you imagine if the tables were turned and it was mothers making vows to stop their sons from having sex before marriage? I'll bet the media would freak out at that! They would probably say it was an attempt demasculate the poor boys.

I agree that this is just the flipside of prostitution, pornography and anti-choice. They are all the patriarchy attempting to express it's ownership of women's bodies and sexuality.

Interesting how quick many of you are to denounce these girls and their families for standing up for something they believe strongly in. The ignorant comments are entertaining. I wonder if some of you wish your fathers cared enough about you to protect you and SHOW you he protects you; that he values you enough to let you know that you don't have to have sex with anyone just because society tells you it's the right of passage for being "mature" or "in a relationship".

How DARE a father take such an interest and involvement in his daughter's life?! How dare he try to protect her from individuals who may only want to use her or who could cause her harm (because let's just be perfectly honest, STD's are rampant, and so is pregnancy)? How dare he model the way a real man respects, values, and honors a woman? How dare he make it hard for any horny asshole to be taken seriously and given a chance by his daughter ... all because he raised her with high standards, high self-esteem, and immense feelings of self-worth?

Interesting how quick many of you are to denounce these girls and their families for standing up for something they believe strongly in. The ignorant comments are entertaining. I wonder if some of you wish your fathers cared enough about you to protect you and SHOW you he protects you; that he values you enough to let you know that you don't have to have sex with anyone just because society tells you it's the right of passage for being "mature" or "in a relationship".

How DARE a father take such an interest and involvement in his daughter's life?! How dare he try to protect her from individuals who may only want to use her or who could cause her harm (because let's just be perfectly honest, STD's are rampant, and so is pregnancy)? How dare he model the way a real man respects, values, and honors a woman? How dare he make it hard for any horny asshole to be taken seriously and given a chance by his daughter ... all because he raised her with high standards, high self-esteem, and immense feelings of self-worth?

Yes, EmmaLoves, I am also concerned by the level of bashing on people's religious beliefs that occurs in modern society, or the implicit or explicit notion that people by the billions are deluded or mentally challenged for believing in some form(s) of higher power, or modeling their lifestyle around some ideas dating back centuries or thousands of years.

I consider that kind of disrespect a separate issue from what is being criticized, and the same sort of disrespect may logically be shown e.g., feminists, who may also be understandably offended by the smears against themselves. Traditionally, the religious authorities struck first at e.g., women in general.

"How dare he model the way a real man respects, values, and honors a woman?"

Therein lies the problem. Traditionally, as in for thousands of years of recorded history, women are considered and treated as the property of the men of their household. Even under a strict religious interpretation of conduct, there are ways to treat women that do not infringe so strongly upon their rights as individuals.

Considering the girls in this story are as young as four, I have a problem representing this as what the girls believe in. Why'd I start attending, and continue going to my Fundamentalist church as a child? Because my mother woke us up early and drove us there on Sunday mornings, and DROPPED US OFF to be taught, like a kind of school. After high school graduation, I made up my own mind that it was not really for me (also I was too lazy to look for a church at college - I slept or went shopping on Sundays). Then I found a church students attended years later to see if I was missing anything. Then I stopped again. Then I went to church at home after graduation. Then I left for a non-Christian culture and never went back. Now I'm considering looking for another church. That's how adults should be free to decide for themselves. If someone around adolescence or the mentioned college age women wish to take part in these purity balls GIVEN A CHOICE, I'd consider it their business, too.

I hope the parents are also clear on how much they love and support their daughters and their decisions, if they decide NOT to make these public pronouncements, or if they have not waited or do not wait for marriage to become sexually active.

Personally, I'd set up ways for young men and women to mingle in a healthy (e.g., not involving young men routinely plying underage women with alcohol) respectful manner that agreed with our beliefs, if I were a church organizer, and not deal with this particular parent child issue at all. Back when, we called it youth fellowship. We jumped in the van and went to the movies. We went to the beach. We went to camp. We played cards. Yes, we were square, but we weren't sexually harassing or assaulting the girls while under adult supervision, either. Personally, I didn't feel the need to do so.

EmmaLoves commented on July 24, 2008 11:27 PM: "How DARE a father take such an interest and involvement in his daughter's life?! How dare he try to protect her from individuals who may only want to use her or who could cause her harm (because let's just be perfectly honest, STD's are rampant, and so is pregnancy)?"

Hint: you don't need to date your daughter to protect her from getting hurt on a date with someone else.

They are vowing to protect a hymen, not only of a child but of an adult woman (after she grows up). They are vowing to "give" that hymen to another man who will then "own" it.
It has nothing to with with a fathers concern for the welfare, protection or happiness of his daughter.
I was raised in a funtamentalist church. The young women who were found out not to be virgins were humiliated and scorned, usually they were told to leave. This included the ones who lost their virginity through rape or molestation.
There was no concern for girls or women's welfare, only concern that their hymens be intact to prove their value as a woman.
The idea that men have the right to dictate women's sexuality is just blatant sexism.
NO ONE "owns' men's sexuality. If they want to stay virgins until they get married they, themselves make the choice. The women aren't even given a choice,

Mina:and if you did wait, would you now feel too old for many of the ones who are waiting? No; I would argue that had I waited to have sex with women that I would not be to old to have sex with them. However, not that I have been having sex with women for the last half decade or so I would arue that I am to old to have sex with a younger lady who was waiting. I think it would be to easy to manipulate/influecnce some one with a third less life experience than I have. Gender irrelvant. I was talking to an 18 year of guy at work who asked me about my military experince. I told him a couple of stories.... and he decided to enlist based on my 'advice'. I was flabbergasted that what I had said weighed so much on this kid. And to me 18-20; just kids. Having relations with a virgin in that age bracket just seems immoral to me.

Okra; Thanks for supporting my openess. But I would argue that I had reached a point where not having sex was preventing intimacy. Most of the females I had met past 19-20 years of age viewed me as an abbertion for not having sex. With the involvement of alcohol in most of my non-sexaul encounters in my late teens I believe that I was playing it smart by not taking advantge of women and saving myself from date rape charges. Nah. Some teens drink to lower their inhibitions and to have sex. Some teens drink because its fun, but they dont intend to have sex and they dont have the facutly to deny while drunk. Me notsubcuming may have been the safest, morale-st thing to do. But females viewed a 20 year old male virgin as just plain wieid. Let me know if you need a more accurate message from all this.

"I was raised in a funtamentalist church. The young women who were found out not to be virgins were humiliated and scorned, usually they were told to leave. This included the ones who lost their virginity through rape or molestation."

That's messed up, and blaming victims for not being virgins is simply inexcusable. They should read the parts of the Bible in which Jesus sat down with "sinners" and his response to the offended witnesses. In the full version of my post about my upbringing, I wrote:

For example, I was raised in a very Fundamentalist church. Some of those values stay with me. The rules are laid down as in the Bible, or by the pastor, or by the parents. It is clear, even according to the Bible, that those are IDEALS. NO HUMAN BEING (other than traditionally, Jesus*) has ever, or can ever follow those commandments and scriptures to the letter. So where is the forgiveness when we do not live up to those standards? Where is the non-judgment?

* During one notable sermon, the pastor devoted his message to the promotion of Jesus as the ideal man, speaking of "real men." Despite all the shit said and done in his name since, a reading of the Bible suggests Jesus treated women with respect (other than e.g. calling his mother "Woman," which may have served other reasons than simple misogyny - I won't get into the schism with Catholicism). He probably wouldn't accept all the slut shaming that occurs, having faced down a mob with murder on their minds, on behalf of a woman stranger. Keep in mind that was 2,000 years ago, Jesus shouldn't be expected to behave like a third wave feminist, because even if it was what he believed, the people would not have "gotten it."

Church members who did not repent or continued in their "life of sin" were not actually driven out, but subtly and not so subtly made to feel unwelcome. How can, e.g., a pregnant teen, or woman with a child out of wedlock sit in the pews while the pastor goes on for an hour at a time about e.g., sins of the flesh, or the people surrounding her talk and behave (not out of malice) like her life is their business, as a member of their/God's family?

Then are those fellow churchgoers who actually wish to avoid the "taint" of these sins/sinners, by withdrawing from the "fallen" member. Can't have themselves or their kids have any of that sin or moral relativism rub off on them.

One major reason I do not return to the church I attended for about 20 years of my life is, I had too much fun during 12 years living in Japan (I am referring to simply not living my life worrying about what my mother at home or people in church would think, not a life of woman abuse or hedonistic pleasure). I can't return to that kind of control or restraint. I enjoy looking at sexually suggestive or nude photos of Japanese women, a habit I picked up there, which is a major no-no. That's between me and my God. (I also have my wife's permission.)

Thank you for sharing, Paul. It takes a lot for a guy to admit to things like that. I was a virgin till 23. I've only had sex with two women, my wife and my first serious girlfriend. That girlfriend and I got carried away with passion. It was like a movie. Then it ended so fast when she found someone she actually had something in common with. I was heartbroken at the time, but got over it because it was a really nice guy. Good looking. Hard working. Funny. See nothing in him or his family to suggest anything not respectable. I also quickly saw how she preferred to be the one in control - of that guy. They're married 15 years later, and sound really happy.

I used to believe virginity was important, and felt anxiety about the men before, but I consider commitments honored now to be more important. My wife married me, and we remain married. We see each other's imperfections including the physical, but we still love each other and stay together. I don't believe I could find someone better. I happen to like sexual gratification, but she is a survivor of some serious abuse, and I deal with my feelings for the sake of being with her. After 12 years, she still doesn't know why I need time in the shower. She thinks I like standing under the water. She's cute that way.

If you feel some sort of regret, there are people you can talk to. Perhaps you have trusted friends, or know someone from a local church, or a professional counselor. There is no shame in seeking help for personal issues. The professionals in particular will keep things confidential, and there may be free or low cost public health services in your area.

Paul commented at July 25, 2008 6:47 PM: "Mina:and if you did wait, would you now feel too old for many of the ones who are waiting? No; I would argue that had I waited to have sex with women that I would not be to old to have sex with them. However, not that I have been having sex with women for the last half decade or so I would arue that I am to old to have sex with a younger lady who was waiting."

Yeas, I should have been clearer and said "and if you did wait, would you now feel too old for many of the ones who are waiting since many of the ones who are still waiting instead of already married are in their early 20s?"

Here's the math I had in mind: The older one gets, the % of other people in one's age group who have had sex (including the ones who saved their first time for other first-timers and already had that first-time-for-both sex, the ones who save sex for marriage and already married, etc.) grows and so the % who haven't had sex (including the ones who save their first time for other first-timers and haven't had first-time-for-both sex, the ones who save sex for marriage and haven't married, etc.) shrinks.

"Most of the females I had met past 19-20 years of age viewed me as an abbertion for not having sex."

Hey, at 19-20 we're women, not just females.

"And to me 18-20; just kids. Having relations with a virgin in that age bracket just seems immoral to me."

I can relate somewhat - I'm 29 and I'd still feel weird about dating a 19-year-old (less weird if he asked me out first, though).

Aack, that should have been "who are waiting since many of the ones who are still waiting instead of already having married or found whatever else they were waiting for are in their early 20s?"!

I grew up dysfunctional fundamentalist, complete with Brio magazine (Focus on the Family's answer to Teen). I was molested from 7-8. I remember feeling like I wasn't "really" a virgin and therefore having sex before I was ready as a young teen. I vividly remembr when my older sister started wearing a Worth Waiting For necklace, and her telling me I didn't qualify to get one because of my molest. Bitch. (sorry, antifem language I know).

I really identified with the girl in the article who was assaulted. I wish sexual abuse therapy/education was given to whole families and not just the victims/survivors. My sis did and said a lot of hurtful things out of ignorance, like that wasn't REAL bad because I wasn't raped (penetrated by penis) "only molested".sorry to get off topic. I just feel the whole purity focus has a residual effect of turning women against each other, based on sexual activity.

what an interesting story. This really has me thinking. This is definitely weird but really has me thinking...wow...
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