this game is indeed gross, ann but you just made my day with "clitar hero." hilarious.

Same here. I'm not amused with the faux game's attempt at humor but I'm most def. amused by "clitar hero!"

It's humorous, but not in a "aren't vaginas funny" sort of way -- and certainly not in a funny way at all. But rather, this, to me, is mocking the idea that *some* men have about the mystery of the female orgasm. Pointing out that all a pleaser-of-the-vadge needs to do is press the right "buttons" in the right order is what is necessary to please the vadge (which is an object not attached to a woman, duh), is some man's idea of understanding the Great Mysterious Baby-Come-From Place.

Some men get it though, and are Clitar Hero Champions! (Although, I'm noticing that the naming of "-spots" within the vagina are similar to that on a bass guitar... the G-spot, the A-spot, we just need the Open-E-spot and the C-spot...)

Ok, not that it's a contest or that there isn't something more valuable in this post to comment on but HELLO the male anatomy is clearly far grosser and weirder.

I'm kind of ok with penises but just for the sake of fun, let's have a genital war. Down with cock!

That is so disturbing. And othering. I hate that while the female orgasm has gained a little respect and recognition in this world, women's orgasms are still regarded by many to be a feat-of-strength of sorts for men. They're not important because they are pleasurable for the women themselves, but because they validate the dude "giving" them.
Ugh, that controller is so objectifying.

"Clitar Hero" is the best thing I've read today.

I guess that's not saying much since I've spent the entire day at work compiling a "worst of the anti-choice blogosphere" report, but still.

About female gamers being possibly offended about the game:
"Absolutely not. If anything, we are doing women a great service. We are making foreplay interesting and exciting for guys while simultaneously giving them the practice they need so they know what they’re doing when they get there."

Perhaps I'm being real naive here, but isn't foreplay normally interesting and exciting for guys?
Well perhaps not for little boys who are scared of the great big vadge, but for the mature hetero men out there I've heard it's quite fun.

"...women's orgasms are still regarded by many to be a feat-of-strength of sorts for men."
Exactly! While men's orgasms is a natural occurence that will happen unless there is something horribly wrong with the woman they are having sex with.

I second elithefeminist. And frankly, I don't see the button pressing as being incredibly helpful for a novice to learn what to do. If some guy started poking me in sequence, I'd probably just be annoyed.

Shit like this makes me think of the influence some porn has had on young men and the way they approach women's genitals.
"Women LOVE this! This sequence got my VIDEO GAME to come! There must be something wrong with you."

Eli -- you've hit the nail on the head. I don't know a single guy, hetero or not, that wouldn't like more foreplay.

If some guy started poking me in sequence, I'd probably just be annoyed.

Ditto. Followed by a curt, "What the fuck are you doing?" And then if it was my turn I'd hold his dick and pretend I'm actually playing Guitar Hero: green, red, yellow yellow, reeeeeeeeeed! (whammy bar included) /snark.

Honestly, maybe it's because I have one, or maybe because my parents gave me a medical book in junior high which detailed various types of vulvas but are our genitals REALLY that difficult? I find it hard to believe and I think a lot of it is laziness and entitlement.

Damn, they're so scared of our icky lady parts that they have to make up a GAME? A game that simulates our parts so they don't have to actually touch them to make us make the right noises? (That's another post entirely) This game has to be invented by men who have never had a productive, informed relationship with women. Fight the fear guys. Oh and to the men out there who do take the time to ask their partners questions about their "lady parts", I mean you no offense. It's the few that give ALL a bad name. What a stupid game.

Plus? It's not even that clever. They should have called this shit Clitar Hero.

Ann, I'm sorry to tell you this, but because of that line, your Humorless Feminist (TM) membership card has been revoked.

Why must guys like this continue to insist that they're straight? Not that I'm trying to fob them off on gay men. I'm not saying they're homosexual, but expressing this much fear and disgust of women's vulvas indicates that these guys are most certainly not heterosexual. Asexual, perhaps?

I mean, if a woman demonstrated this much loathing for a man's penis, the assumption would be that she's not straight.

wow...i'm most afraid of the people that will actually buy this & enjoy it ((the comments people left. have they no shame?))....this is disturbing in so many ways. i have to somewhat agree with keshmeshi...whenever i see men expressing disgust over the vagina ((what kind of creature bleeds for a week and still lives)) i begin to question whether they're straight because as much as i love my homosexual friends, they have a huge disgust over the vagina but at least they treat me with respect. that's a lot more than i can say about half the straight men in america. how can someone that claims to be so "manly" and straight find it okay to treat women like shit? if you love something, you RESPECT it.

wow...i'm most afraid of the people that will actually buy this & enjoy it ((the comments people left. have they no shame?))....this is disturbing in so many ways. i have to somewhat agree with keshmeshi...whenever i see men expressing disgust over the vagina ((what kind of creature bleeds for a week and still lives)) i begin to question whether they're straight because as much as i love my homosexual friends, they have a huge disgust over the vagina but at least they treat me with respect. that's a lot more than i can say about half the straight men in america. how can someone that claims to be so "manly" and straight find it okay to treat women like shit? if you love something, you RESPECT it.

ps: listening to le tigre's tko as i type. kick. ass.

Well after reading all the comments I think it safe to say that I am certainly going to be in a minority here but none the less I figure I'll let my thoughts be known. I hope I don't come off as sexist but I think that maybe you guys are taking a little too much offense over a video game which was obviously made my nerdy men who are too scared to talk to women, let alone sleep with them. I in no way think that they see the vagina as gros and thus created this game, the first thought which came to mind after reading some comments was, "But isn't imitation the highest form of flattery?" Granted this is not the context that phrase is typically used (an object as opposed to a person) but I see that these nerds love vaginas so much they had to create this game in order to be 'near' one and fantasize about giving a woman an orgasm. I think if they really hated vaginas they simply would have created 'Cock Rocker' in which they jack off a virtual version of themselves because, "I don't even want to think about an 'icky vagina'." Obviously the humour in creating such a video game is low brow (like pubic brow) but I feel it is less harmful than some of you feel it is.
Also, speaking as a man, men already, 'touch women in sequence' only instead of a third party or animatronic source guiding us to the buttons it is the woman and we gladly oblige.

elithefeminist: Yes foreplay is enjoyable for men. However, too much forplay (overstimulation) leads to premature ejaculation. There's a sentiment among men that if this happens to you, you are less of man. It's also very difficult to feel like you've disappointed a partner. So generally men will concentrate on the outcome (satisfaction/orgasm) more than the process. I wonder, though, if orgasm wasn't (virtually) guaranteed for men - if they wouldn't focus more on the intimacy that sex brings.

jamesneysmith, The internet isn't a place for discussion or understanding between different people groups. This board itself is taking a serious approach to a topic that another group is approaching with humor. The people who are posting negative comments about the joke product view it as an attack. They're offended and are voicing their disapproval.

Second, the more people that post - the more it sounds like you guys believe this is an actual product. It's not, it's a spoof; a spoof that mocks men's performance anxieties as well as the idea among some men that vaginas are complicated. Any article that states "The goal, ultimately, is to fill the climax meter" isn't taking a serious or mature look at relationships, intimacy, or women.

Third, No where does it say anything about vaginas being icky, just foreign ergo mysterious (as men don't have vaginas).

Fourth, the only thing that I would have no defense against being sexist, objectifying, masogynistic, etc is:
"..unlike previous Hero games by that other totally unrelated publisher, there is no time frame. The sooner you’re done, the sooner you can move on to the next girl..."
I'm surprised that it hadn't been pointed out.

Finally, Do any women in here have experience with performance anxiety when it comes to giving oral sex to men? Have you ever joked about it? Have you ever had a partner asking for instruction and you have no idea what to say? If so, wouldn't it be nice if all men enjoyed the same sequence of buttons / motions / actions performed on them? In your opinion would that take the anxiety off of pleasing your partner?

Don't fall over from the shock, ladies, but it's not about us...it's really all about teh poor menz! How dare we comment or be offended? It's not like we actually have vaginas or anything. Gosh, I'm so glad teh menz came in to straighten everything out.

Clitar Hero - my new favorite phrase!

So you have no comment to anything I've said, but because I have a penis I should be criticised and dialogue with me is less valuable than standing back, pointing at me, and sarcastically devaluing my comment.

If you use the common definition for feminism as:
"The doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men." (emphasis on the word "equal") then your attitude is actually not feministic, but simply male bashing.

Also, I hadn't used any sort of victim language in my post - I'm not sure where you're coming up with a request for sympathy (if you are indeed replying to me).

elithefeminist:

Perhaps I'm being real naive here, but isn't foreplay normally interesting and exciting for guys?

James_:

Yes foreplay is enjoyable for men. However, too much forplay (overstimulation) leads to premature ejaculation. There's a sentiment among men that if this happens to you, you are less of man. It's also very difficult to feel like you've disappointed a partner.

In other words, "foreplay" (god, I hate that word and its implications) is enjoyable to these guys when it's something done for *them*. But you've gotta be careful, because once he comes it's game over.

Touching a woman in a way that doesn't directly get them off? What's the point of *that*?

Touching a woman in a way that doesn't directly get them off? What's the point of *that*?

"Them", of course, being the guys doing the touching.

Jeff: I believe you're doing what's called "trolling".

Since
A) There's nothing that says that sexual intimacy needs to stop once either partner has an orgasm.

B) There's a plethora of reasons for physical contact between (platonic and romantic) men/women men/men women/women.

I'm also wary of you referring to the other people on this board as 'these guys' when you're directly talking to me since I'd prefer to have my own voice and not be lumped in with either side of an argument .

Heh. I actually think the controller's kind of cute. But that's 'cause I'm easily taken and amused by vagina-shaped things.

The premise that making a woman come is like jumping through hoops or climbing Mount Everest or breathing fire (or pressing a zillion TOTALLY RANDOM buttons) is fucking stupid and stereotypical. I'm sorry, the female anatomy is not that mysterious and impossible and complicated and random, no more so than male anatomy. As another commenter wrote, you're not going to get anyone off by doing a bunch of totally random shit because you're just SOOO CONFUSED and won't do something simple - oh, like, say, ASK YOUR PARTNER WHAT S/HE LIKES.

It's just omgreallycomplicated to take some time to experiment and communicate with your partner.

Jeff: since you clarified which "these guys" you meant, I'll have to update what I said...

I have no idea what you are saying.

"In other words" tells me that you're going to rephrase something, and you quoted elithefeminist - so my best guess is that you're rephrasing the bit of what she said that you quoted, but then you go on and change her question to two statements (broken into a compound sentence with an extra period in it, and two rhetorical questions).

You lost me.

Um, James_, boo-hoo. Nobody is criticizing you "because you have a penis." Get over it.

"There's a sentiment among men that if this happens to you, you are less of man. It's also very difficult to feel like you've disappointed a partner. So generally men will concentrate on the outcome (satisfaction/orgasm) more than the process."

OK, this is still a problem with a sexual culture which positions men as the central actors and central players, the ones who are going to get off no matter what and are heroes if they can get a woman off and failure losers if they can't. Women are still the afterthought here, the passive receptors. What happened to, like, once again, partners TALKING to each other? Why is it embarrassing and difficult to talk, even with a partner you just met? And, as for your earlier question about wouldn't women like it if all penises were the same and really easy - no. Human beings are complex. So is sexuality. Mature people understand this. No one is magically good at anything, including sex, without practice.

I will acknowledge that some women will also participate in this harmful sexual culture of insulting a man because of his sexual (in)abilities, or making him feel inadquate. But when a woman says she likes sex even when she doesn't come (which I do), and reassures her partner, why does he so often still "feel bad"? He feels bad not because of the woman, but because of what people will say. This turns into a problem between men, again about the men, about everybody else except for the two people involved.

"I wonder, though, if orgasm wasn't (virtually) guaranteed for men - if they wouldn't focus more on the intimacy that sex brings."

Orgasm is so NOT virtually guaranteed for men. Ha. Yet another wonderful bit of our patriarchal sexual mythology. Men are also encouraged in our culture to NOT be intimate in general, not only during sex.

"Third, No where does it say anything about vaginas being icky, just foreign ergo mysterious (as men don't have vaginas)."

Agreed. But it's still immature, as you say ("Tee-hee, look at that funny icky person with the funny, abnormal, non-penis genitals! I don't know how to deal maturely with sexual difference!"). And "icky" is simply being used as a synonym for "bad, confusing, too complex to figure out so I might as well just randomly press a bunch of buttons all at once." You're just mincing words.

The idea that vaginas/vulvas are mysterious in the first place is part of the problem with this game idea. It is much more common and acceptable to talk about penises than vaginas/vulvas in society; talking about penises is "normal" while talking about vaginas/vulvas is "dirty", "trashy" and "weird". Why? Because penises are assumed to be prevalent and normal while vaginas and vulvas are assumed to be dirty and totally off-limits for casual conversation. You can joke about the things a penis does and everyone will laugh but if you joke about the things a vagina or vulva does, the room goes silent and suddenly very few people are willing to talk to you (I know. I've done this). So to say that a game like this implies that vaginas are just foreign and mysterious is to miss the larger picture completely. They are foreign and mysterious precisely because they are a largely taboo subject.

All this "mystery" stuff really ticks me off.

My sexuality and my “lady parts” are not a mystery, unique, or 'complicated'. If someone wants to please and pleasure me, this is all s/he needs to do: touch me everywhere that makes me moan, then touch my vulva, kiss my clit and genuinely enjoy it. Then, fuck with me all night long, or however long we want to.

The thing is, **I can’t make you genuinely enjoy it**; that part’s all in your head. So, guys, if you think I am icky, or strange, then you have no business sticking your “gentleman rod” inside me.

Period.

whew, thanks feministing, for giving me a friendly forum to say this.

Allegra, read shelby woo's post - she's being critical. I was the second male to post something and the one before me was written in a passive apologetic way - ergo she was being critical of me.

On mincing words: since conversation is the exchange of ideas using words that have common definitions - you have to define a word before using it (as a fun thing to do, watch how different sides try to phrase arguments ie: pro-life v pro-choice one topic with two conversations raging about it, or how the Bush administration convinced people to 'support the troops' thereby silencing war criticism as not supporting the troups). I'd rather consider myself to be defining words to better communicate my point. Which is how you understood that I take icky to mean disguisting, gross - not foreign / mysterious.

On communication: sure, while we sit here and naval gaze - yes, it's easy. I'm sure that you and I (taken as an example, not as an assumed 'you must want me'), being educated people, would be able to define the boundaries, pros/cons, likes/dislikes of a shared sex life. Remember though, this conversation is about people with sophmoric humor who would buy a video game to play with a vagina. I'm not going to assume they're very good at communicating their feelings.

"Orgasm is so NOT virtually guaranteed for men"
The way that our society approaches sex/dating/mating, it is. I'm surprised that you're arguing that point. Speaking in generalities about our culture, women signal, men persue, women receive. I'm not going to look up social studies to back that up - I'm having a housewarming party in 3 hours and I don't have time.

So here's a conundrum for you...

If we are talking about heterosexual men's sexuality - yes, women are the object of that by definition. Since thoughts are structured Subject->Object - aren't women always going to be the object?

So until our culture changes so that men are the chaste chased and women initiate, the topic of sex will be generally framed with women as the object.

To answer your question about why does a man often still feel bad, it's the same thing as why women feel bad about not matching our cultural definition of beauty, failed expectation. It doesn't matter who placed the expectation on the individual. If that individual takes that standard to heart and "fails" - it hurts.

Finally (truely, finally) - since as I mentioned earlier I have a housewarming party soon, this'll be my last post on this topic. So rebutt what you will, but don't take my silence for anything else besides absense.

James, I think your confusion might partially be a confusion of two subtly different meanings of "object". There is, for instance, the object of your affection, i.e. the receiver of it. And then there is an inanimate object. As I understand it, objectification is the latter, not the former, because the latter removes any agency on the part of the "object" while the former doesn't. The object of my affections certainly still has agency for himself; even when I'm purely lusting after him, there is no lack of consideration that he has wants and needs of his own. Whereas if I was objectifying him in the way that many men objectify women, I would believe that I could do whatever I wanted in whatever way I wanted and he should respond the way I want him to, period.

...thoughts are structured Subject->Object - aren't women always going to be the object?

Thoughts are structured that way. However, not always. There is this thing that can summarily disrupt that tidy equation. It's called empathy. In my opinion, it is vastly more likely than Clitar Hero to seriously enhance a person's fuckability.

James_, I know you said you weren't going to be commenting anymore but I think I can clear up a misunderstanding. You pointed out that overstimulation during foreplay can lead to premature ejaculation. I think what Jeff was trying to point was that all foreplay doesn't necessarily involve direct stimulation to the male. If the man is doing something for the purpose of pleasuring the woman (which is not necessarily unexciting for the man but wouldn't involve a direct physical act) then he wouldn't be as likely to run the risk of premature ejaculation. Besides, if the people involved are actually communicating and understand each other's bodies they can reduce the risk of that anyway. Also, even if the guy DOES orgasm early he can still please his partner.

Mocking culturally induced performance anxiety and the myth that vaginas are complicated would be nice but I can't help feeling that there are people who see this and are thinking "You're right! Vaginas are so confusing!" And I'm not entirely convinced that the writer doesn't agree with that sentiment based on the article. This, to me, sounds like using on the tired idea that it takes a man of great sexual prowess to satisfy a woman because vaginas are just so damn hard to figure out for easy laughs...not a mockery of such views. I just can't seem to find anything in the article that SUBVERTS or MOCKS said idea...just jokes based off of the premise. And it's a premise I'm really tired of hearing because it's not only untrue but also perpetuates a myth that makes sex less fun for everyone.

this will be short and poorly type as I'm typing on my iPod...

Empathy is emotion, not thought
It doesn't disrupt what I was saying

Stimulating women will cause them to exude pheremones which in return stimulate the man

Men objectify women in the same way I hear them objectifying men, and the same way Ive heard women objectify men\ others women. I don't understand why there is an expectation that this should end. If you're talking about a trophywife so to speak, the trophywife is in that relationship as well. So there is no discrimination against women in general when you're looking at that coupling.

What definition for prowess are you using? Synonyms that pop into my head include the word skill, so I would say that satisfying your sexual partner does involve skill.

I'm often shocked and confused that so many supposedly straight men willing (and sometimes, proudly??) admit that they have no idea what's going on "down there" for women. I would think that this would be embarrassing, considering how many men think being a skilled lover is a sign of masculinity. I was just having a conversation the other day that I don't understand how a guy can claim to be hetero and be grossed out by a vagina (likewise to hetero women & penises). I mean, being attracted to women sexually usually involves sexual organs...if you're lucky. I would think that most guys would want to learn how to please a woman, not just shrug it off and think that a woman's lucky to get some either way.

Also...Jeff?
"Touching a woman in a way that doesn't directly get them off? What's the point of *that*?"

You're being sarcastic, right?

On hetero men being grossed out by women's vaginas: Not all women like the taste/smell/consistency/what have you of sperm (or how horrible balls smell), much in the same way that not all men enjoy the experience of giving oral sex.

On men wanting to learn what they don't know: If men get signals (such as faked orgasms) that they're doing something right, how are they supposed to know if they're not. That miscommunication isn't something that men can own. Communication is definately a two way street.

Honestly, sometimes vaginas and penises are gross. After exercising I feel like I should take a shower because I don't exactly smell great. And yeast infections (for either gender) aren't pleasant. At times (even though largely I would consider myself fit and attractive) I know that I find myself unattractive. Point being, attraction is more complicated than just a visual evaluation of something. Emotions (how we feel about you, how we feel about ourselves, etc) are involved for men as well, even if we aren't supposed to talk about that aspect.

I wanna play Clitar Hero! *pumps fist*

Speaking of fists... "Personally, if you want to really see what you're doing, the two hand approach is best. You could also just mash all the buttons at the same time with your fist and hope to get lucky."

What the hull?? That's not how fisting works, hon.

These are the same potty-training disasters that love to talk tough but piss themselves over football players. A culture of retards.