So...an increased problem of homophobia in communities of color is a myth, now? In spite of all the queer people of color I've heard talking about the problem?

I don't see Ms. Sen saying anything about the problem being a myth. It seems to me more like she's being critical of the attitudes of white people feeling that it's their duty to "educate and enlighten" (in typical imperialistic style), rather than recognizing and supporting the efforts that queer communities of color are already making.

The real myth here is that people of color somehow need white people to lead them to being civilized - pretty typical, really. But if we try to say there isn't a problem, we fail to recognize an important and very real aspect of racial oppression - that oppressed groups are always encouraged to keep division within their numbers in order to keep them from uniting against their whole group's disenfranchisement.

Which "people of color" is the author referring to? Because if she want's to say "black" or "Latino" she should just say it.

Not all people of color are the same, for example: aboriginal Americans have a pretty diverse culture and quite a few have a long tradition of acceptance and support of queer/trans persons (twin-spirited people). AFAIK many cultures in Africa were similarly predisposed prior to being beaten with the Jesus club (now the Mohamed stick).

My point being: Not all non-white folks are the same, but when we attempt to use PC terminology with the good intention of being non-offensive the opposite result may occur.

"Communities of color" tends to lump together a pretty large heterogeneous group. Some communities of color, notably, African-Americans are more anti-gay than others, say, Asians.

Watching people of color celebrate this week's weddings helped me to remember that it's not someone's race, but their contact with real, live, gay people that shapes their sexual politics.

Rather than fixating on communities of color as though we’re the last of the homophobic holdouts, we should be thinking of ways to bring people together, socially and culturally, across sexual lines."

I'm with you Lauren on the interpretation...

And yet by the way it's titled...

This is like Samhita's post about prison abolition a while back....and all the subsequent questions afterward as to what she (or at least the particular advocacy group) proposed to do with violent criminals who still posed a threat and the possibility that we may never phase them out...not really giving any recognizable answers and kinda misleading.

First, I just reloaded the front page and it says there are 4 comments on this post but when I reloaded this post's page it only displays Lauren's 10:36 comment. My apologies if this ends up repeating another post!

Ann posted at June 26, 2008 8:32 AM: "It's one week after the state of California officially began to marry gay couples..."

...and years after the nation of South Africa officially began to marry gay couples. I'm reminded of this article about Mpumi Mathabela, Asanda Mjobo, and their supportive families: "SA couple look forward to gay wedding," 2/27/2005, BBC, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4744376.stm

Lauren commented at June 26, 2008 10:36 AM: "The real myth here is that people of color somehow need white people to lead them to being civilized - pretty typical, really. But if we try to say there isn't a problem, we fail to recognize an important and very real aspect of racial oppression - that oppressed groups are always encouraged to keep division within their numbers in order to keep them from uniting against their whole group's disenfranchisement."

Exactly.

I mean...

She's refuting polls and statistics and research by saying "Man, it was nice seeing some people of color involved with gay weddings."

Samhita, there is a massive lack of logic in this post. You can't just call something a myth because it doesn't jibe with your worldview.

woops, just realized it was Ann, not Samhita who made this post. So...I am dissing Ann then, sorry.

: "The real myth here is that people of color somehow need white people to lead them to being civilized - pretty typical, really. But if we try to say there isn't a problem, we fail to recognize an important and very real aspect of racial oppression - that oppressed groups are always encouraged to keep division within their numbers in order to keep them from uniting against their whole group's disenfranchisement."

Can you be more specific? Which apparently arrogant white group is forcing themselves on "people of color" when it comes to this issue?

Or do you equate "white people civilizing blacks" with outsiders simply commenting on what they view as some strains of hyper-machismo and misogyny in black and Hispanic culture, as well as "white" (conservative) culture?

Oops, typo. That BBC article is from 2/27/2006. Sorry!

while i think rinku sen's assumption that a few gay couples of color being married and being accepted by their communities is emblematic of their communities not being homophobic, to me her point still stands that characterizing communities of color as more homophobic than white communities is largely mythical as i have seen no evidence of this being true.

where is the evidence that communities of color are more homophobic than white communities, if you have evidence i would really like to see it, and i don't mean some friends of color saying that their families are not accepting because that is as representative as some take this video to be, but actual evidence that people of color are more homophobic than white people. because really, i am yet to see or hear about any people of color killing a gay person because of homophobia, at least in the u.s. unlike the examples we have of matthew sheperd and the like.

also, i think sen is rejecting that white people are somehow the standard by which to judge the progress of lessening homophobia, i have friends who are white and gay and terrified of coming out for fear of being rejected, just as i have friends who are of color and gay and similarly afraid of coming out. but i also have friends of both categories who have successfully come out even if they were afraid and their families have been more receptive than they could have ever anticipated.

let's be real, most communities have at the very least some strains of homophobia, so to single out these communities, is redundant as i don't really see evidence of any community solving the problem of homophobia as of now.

maybe the point is we can't objectively really identify which communities are more homophobic than others and to those who think that communities of color are more homophobic, i would suggest looking at any number of white communities whether it be evangelical christians, southerners, etc because one could argue that those communities are just as homophobic as communities of people of color.

in response to xxhelenaxx:

this wasn't directed at me but the point is, when white people are commenting about machismo and masculinity in hispance and black communities it is used as an proof that these communities are somehow more backwards than white communities. i rarely ever read about homophobia in the black, hispanic and white populations collectively without a portrayal of homophobia in minority communities as more problematic than in white communities. if i read about it in minority populations, it is an example of how they are not as civilized as mainstream american read: white and that is the standard of progress.

xxhelenaxx - I'm confused. First you say you agree with my interpretation, now you're apparently offended that I've dared to say such an evil thing as yes, white people do still oppress PoC?

No, there isn't any "specific group" that I'm talking about, and do you know why? Because most racism is not blatant, conscious white supremacy - it is a social system that's existed for centuries and which we have only begun to refute as a society. A few decades of activism have not rid us of the deeply socialized beliefs we still hold - albeit often unintentionally - about race. It's just like sexism in that regard, and ultimately it comes down to whether or not people have, on an individual basis, started the long, difficult journey of confronting the racist beliefs that society breeds into all of us. You can't just say, "I know racism is bad, therefore I'm not racist." Racist beliefs are part of our culture and we take them for granted.

No, I don't equate all commentary with white imperialism - if you recall I just made my own comments about the exact same things you mentioned, for heaven's sake! But where it gets imperialistic, where it gets racist, is when any white people subscribe (and they usually do it unconsciously) to the belief that PoC are somehow dependent on OUR leadership and wisdom to fight the problems in their communities.

sweetie57 - you can't have hard evidence of sociological tendencies. Ever. Sorry.

lauren: then why continue perpetuating ideas which are at best perceived generalities and at worst used to further malign communities of color as unprogressive, that's my issue

In a word...denial. Yeah no more homophobic which is why the GLBT gets so much support from the black community right? Tell me when cases like a a href="http://www.womanist-musings.com/2008/06/cops-beat-transexual-woman.html">Duanna Johnson happen if we are supportive where are the protest rallies by our black leadership...Tell me why the GLBT is treated the way it is in Jamaica and throughout the Caribbean?

In a word...denial. Yeah no more homophobic which is why the GLBT gets so much support from the black community right? Tell me when cases like a a href="http://www.womanist-musings.com/2008/06/cops-beat-transexual-woman.html">Duanna Johnson happen if we are supportive where are the protest rallies by our black leadership...Tell me why the GLBT is treated the way it is in Jamaica and throughout the Caribbean?