I don't think it's fair to lump Woody Allen, who has been charged with nothing, to Roman Polanski, who was actually convicted of sex crimes.

It was so annoying when Polanski got that standing ovation at the Oscars. The man is a rapist. Period.

Well, we all know that rape is just lurid tabloid trash, a tawdry, frivolous distraction from serious men and their serious art.

I'm not clear on what you're saying. If you're saying that it's disturbing that they're labeled as tragic and fascinating in some part because they're sex offenders, then sure, I'd agree with that. But if you're criticizing the fact that people pay tribute to them despite that they're sex offenders, then I'd have to disagree; committing a sex crime does not diminish a person's other achievements.

If he is an adult and she is 13, it is rape. Period. I have heard this argument over and over trying to give adult agency to children, but 13 year olds cannot consent to sexual activity with adults.

Polanski's a pedophile. end of discussion. He's been doing the jailbait dance overseas since the 1970s, as he's still a fugitive from the law.

However, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

When white female teachers rape, sexually assault and molest their 12-17 year old male students, no one uses the words "rape", "sexually assault" or "molest".

No one even refers to these women as pedophiles or predators.

No.

Instead we joke about how much these teen/preteen boys probably "wanted it", "had it coming" somehow or will chalk it up as some sort wondrous experience on par with a "Dear Playboy" letter that they'll relish from the day it happened until they're well in their 80s.

Lets be consistent in our criticisms.

I agree with you. I hate when the press uses phrases like "sex with a minor" instead of "raping a child". fuckin patriarchy at work, I tell ya.

A few years ago I saw an interview with the girl (now woman) in question, where she said that she just wished that she could have a voice in the proceedings, that she never wanted to charge him with anything and she just wanted everything dropped and it to be over. The charges against him were statutory, so she was given no choice in pressing them. She clearly felt very upset and powerless, blamed herself for ruining his great career, and wished he could just come back to the states as a free man and she wouldn't have to answer questions about it anymore.

Sometimes I really hate our justice system. While I think he should be punished for his actions, it seems like the whole process constantly re-victimizes her and enhanced his career with this lure of mystery from his life on the run. I wish we could just let her handle it the way she wants, even though I know that isn't really possible. Blarg.

Rusty, I definitely under what you're saying about Allen, but in my opinion, he is a sex offender as well.

Back to Polanski, Alice, I am saying the first thing you mentioned, as well as the second. I think there's something wrong with them being treated as some sort of victim (of tabloid attacks and public outrage) despite their offenses and martyred for it, and I do also think it's disturbing that they're continuously praised despite their offenses, like Rusty's example of Polanski's standing ovation.

This is absolutely horrendous. I think Feministing should use the somewhat name recognition ya'll have to write a letter to the editor that this is not acceptable.

So...because she'd been drunk before and was not a virgin... she wasn't really raped?

Also, the syntax the writer used in this article is disgusting. "There was champagne and a Quaalude for refreshments before a trip to the bedroom" sounds more like an upscale, romantic date than a heinous sexual assault against a child. SO gross.

I need to go take fifty showers now.

There's a rather large degree of tolerance in the media for the rape of children. When Bill Maher ridiculed the Pope for covering up the cases of pedophilia among priests, Maher was made out to be the bad guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsI5pSS_tuY

The media also glossed over the rape of children at Abu Ghraib, which was detailed in the Taguba Report:

“I saw [name of US interrogator blacked out ], who was wearing the military uniform, putting his dick in the little kid’s ass,”

So the fact that Newsweek would condone Roman Polanski's drugging and anal rape of a child is no suprise. The "journalists" who produced that pile of shit are scumbags who support the molestation of children.

Here's Slate's debunking of the idea that female teachers who molest boys are treated more leniently. And can you even name any male teachers who raped female students? I sure can't, but the list of female teacher sex offender household names goes on and on: Mary Kay LeTourneau, Debra LaFave, Pamela Turner...

"...I definitely under what you're saying about Allen, but in my opinion, he is a sex offender as well.'

And exactly why do you considered Allen a sex offender? Those are pretty nasty accusations you make.

Ah, I see. Drugging and giving alcohol to a minor is just like consensual sex! And because she'd had sex and drank before, that means she'd given carte blanche to all men forever! We'll I'll be dammed....

Black Canseco,

I'm not sure what your point is. No one on this thread, and certainly not feminists as a whole, excuse female pedophiles. I've also never heard that it's acceptable for women to sleep with children while it is not ok for men to do this. The problem lies with societal views on sexual roles. It's a problem that underage boys are lauded/encouraged/paid less mind for engaging in sexual relationships with older women. But that's a patriarchal reinforcement, not a feminist one.

Hey Vanessa,

Roman Polanski is my favorite filmmaker and I am a hardcore feminist. His life and his perseverance are inspiring to me and I follow his life very closely. I’ve read his autobiography, Roman by Polanski, several times, have read the court transcripts of this particular case, and have kept in touch with all of the news regarding it for the past several years. I’m not trying to defend him in any way because, clearly, he is at fault, but not in as much fault as people tend to believe. I agree with you on the part that the news media shouldn’t be victimizing Roman, but I don’t think we should be victimizing Samantha Geimer, the gal in question, either. She and her mother concocted a plan for her to have sex with Roman during their photo shoot so she could become famous, which is why all but the statutory rape charges were dismissed from court. Roman served prison time for…I believe it was six months, but I could be mistaken, which was an agreed upon term by both the court, the Geimer family, and Roman himself. Roman had to flee the country and return to France (where he has dual citizenship with Poland) because a new judge had overturned the previous judge’s decision for the publicity. I don’t know if you’ve been following the documentary at all, but the director, Marina Zenovich, tried to get Roman to appear on camera to discuss the entire debacle. He refused because he just wants to make films and spend time with his family. Samantha Geimer wants the same thing for him and herself. If memory serves, she now has two children and lives in Hawaii.

BlackCanseco, who is this "us" in your "let's be consistent in our criticisms"? Because I have never, ever heard a feminist say, "Oh yeah, he was probably loving it! It's totally a fantasy come true!" about female teachers who have raped their students. No, those sort of statements are a product of patriachy that says men (and boys) must want sex at all time no matter the circumstances. Perhaps this was implicit in your comment, but you sure sound like you're criticizing feminists for cheering on female rapists, while condeming male rapists.

We (as opposed to many non- and anti-feminists) are opposed to rape of all people. It just so happens that men rape women and girls far, far more often than women rape men and boys. When that happens, we don't suggest he was "asking for it." No one, no matter their gender, is ever asking to be raped.

I'm not excused the intense immorality and insensitivity of what Woody Allen did, but Soon-Yi was 22 when they were discovered and I'm not under the impression that there are any claims that they were involved with eachother before she was of age or that he coerced her in any way. they didn't even live in the same home and while she had siblings that were Allen's, both adopted and biological, she was not his daughter. terrible? absolutely. heartless? no doubt. sex offender/predator/rapist/on par with drugging and raping a 13 year old? I really, very much do not think so. I think this is a moment where the difference is significant.

There's a rather large degree of tolerance in the media for the rape of children. When Bill Maher ridiculed the Pope for covering up the cases of pedophilia among priests, Maher was made out to be the bad guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsI5pSS_tuY

The media also glossed over the rape of children at Abu Ghraib, which was detailed in the Taguba Report:

“I saw [name of US interrogator blacked out ], who was wearing the military uniform, putting his dick in the little kid’s ass,”

So the fact that Newsweek would condone Roman Polanski's drugging and anal rape of a child is no suprise. The "journalists" who produced that pile of shit are scumbags who support the molestation of children.

Black Canseco, you're wrong. The female teachers you refer to are convicted of their crimes and sent to prison for them, as they should be. I find it curious that you included a reference to the race of the female sex offender in your post. Is there a specific reason for that?

You will not find ANY commentary by feminists that in any way, shape, or form claims that boys who are molested by women are asking for it. I believe you're thinking of tabloids.

I was appalled when People magazine had an article covering the marriage of Le Tourneau and her victim as if it were some sort of romantic story of love conquering all. As a survivor of sexual abuse (by a female daycare provider), it made me want to throw up.

Obviously you're trolling here.

I'm not sure it's exactly legal to call someone a 'sex offender' publicly if they haven't been convicted. On what grounds?

I looked up Woody Allen's relationship with Soon-Yi and I don't understand what you are criticizing him for. It's a consensual relationships between adults, as far as I can tell.

"...but I don’t think we should be victimizing Samantha Geimer, the gal in question, either. She and her mother concocted a plan for her to have sex with Roman during their photo shoot so she could become famous..."

How feasible is it for a 13-year-old to refuse when someone who has custody of her concocts a plan like that...?

Of course you can call someone a sex offender legally without their being convicted. I'm confused by the question. How many times has Michael Jackson been called a pedophile and rapist? He was never convicted either. The ethical nature of it, I suppose, could be debated. But of course it's legal.

’m not trying to defend him in any way because, clearly, he is at fault, but not in as much fault as people tend to believe. I agree with you on the part that the news media shouldn’t be victimizing Roman, but I don’t think we should be victimizing Samantha Geimer, the gal in question, either. She and her mother concocted a plan for her to have sex with Roman during their photo shoot so she could become famous, which is why all but the statutory rape charges were dismissed from court.

Sara, you are absolutely, in every way defending him. You're saying that a 13-year-old girl conspired to "have sex" with a much older man, and therefore it's her fault. You know what? I don't care if she did. (Though if it is, her mother should have been prosecuted as well.)IT DOESN'T MATTER. She was 13. He was a full grown adult. That makes it rape. Christ, if you're going to call yourself a feminist while defending a convicted sex offender and saying that we should hold the 13-year-old victim partially responsible, at least be honest about it. I'm really trying to not scream right now.

If it makes you feel better, I changed the language to "accused Woody Allen." Sure, there's a difference between him and Polanski because he was convicted, but let's not forget Allen was accused of sexually Soon-Yi when she was 7 years old. I also recall there being press about them having them a "relationship" when she was as young as 15, but I can't be sure about that. She was 22 when they announced it publicly. My apologies if this offends anyone, but many still believe he abused her when she was a minor, as do I.

I say we focus our offense on the actual premise of the post, which is Newsweek using language to infer that a 13-year old was responsible for being raped.

Whether the victim or her mother had some kind of plot going is a red herring: Polanski put his dick in a child and deserves to spend the rest of his life locked up, just as other pedophiles do.

Bowleserised- Crimes still exist when someone hasn't been convicted of them yet or never get convicted. Rapists are still rapists when judges throw out all charges because they think that the girl was somehow "asking for it." Someone who fucks a drugged thirteen year old is a sex offender whether they have a criminal record or not.

Glad to clear that up for ya.

you've guys are right... i've only been reading feministing on a semi-daily basis for 4 years now. i refrain from posting consistently, because of the frequent condescension and myopia aimed at those who disagree. and if that makes me a troll--a name i get called almost monthly by people whose names i rarely see out here--then so be it.

regardless, there's a difference between sexism and double standards.

to claim that we laud young boys for having sex with older women is pretty absurd. anyone who's taught high school and college as i have/do hears young girls bragging about their older boyfriends and dates/trysts with older men and of course the older man is always dismissed as the predator while the woman/girl consistently being "manipulated"--true or not.

the polanski case isn't really up for debate. he's a pedophile. what spared him wasn't his gender, but his money and his celebrity.

the guys Stone Phillips catches should be so fortunate as to get a movie in their honor or discussions about their tortured souls...
As for the disparity in sentences--it's not even close. it's years versus decades, months versus years...

and let's be real: there's no movies of the week or talkshow slots for "harold" the 40-something potbellied gym teacher when he molests, but the media and way too many in the feminist community are set to defend or downplay women predators.

those are just facts.

And can you even name any male teachers who raped female students? I sure can't, but the list of female teacher sex offender household names goes on and on: Mary Kay LeTourneau, Debra LaFave, Pamela Turner...

I assume that's because it's pretty much "expected" or "normal" behavior for men, but utterly shocking and horrifying for women to behave that way towards students.

Definitely, Vanessa. The point of the post wasn't Roman Polanski (he is old news), the point was the victim-blaming language a fairly prominent publication used (which is not old news but constant, ever recurring news). Thanks for posting.

BC,

Please, let's be real. Cite me some feminists who downplay female sex offenders. This is discussion thread. If you post generalizations of the feminist community, which are wildly inaccurate, someone is going to disagree with you.

there's no movies of the week or talkshow slots for "harold" the 40-something potbellied gym teacher when he molests

Actually, that's what's going on with Polanski.

""...but I don’t think we should be victimizing Samantha Geimer, the gal in question, either. She and her mother concocted a plan for her to have sex with Roman during their photo shoot so she could become famous..."

How feasible is it for a 13-year-old to refuse when someone who has custody of her concocts a plan like that...?"

"Whether the victim or her mother had some kind of plot going is a red herring: Polanski put his dick in a child and deserves to spend the rest of his life locked up, just as other pedophiles do."

Exactly.

If anything, the girl had two rapists: Polanski, and her own mother. Her mother should have served jail time too.

Sarah,

I find your logic really disturbing. Even if they "created a plot for her to sleep with him," such a plot would not be feasible unless Polanski would do it. I recognize that this may not be your intent, but it sounds like a slightly more refined way of saying that she was asking for it. Thirteen year olds can't ask for sex. Period. Adults who have sex with them are rapists. Period.

On a related topic, a critic finally refuses to praise the Emperor's spiffy new duds...

Vanessa,

I'm not sure how Woody could've molested Soon-Yi at 7, when Mia Farrow didn't even adopt her until she was 8 and she was with Andre Previn at the time.

Also, no, they didn't go public with their relationship when she was 22. that's when they were caught by Mia Farrow, who found nude pictures of her daughter in Allen's possessions.

if there are sources to back up your claims that he molested her as a child, please share them. but what you're claiming runs counter to everything I've ever heard about the case and, in some places, reality. I think you have your facts wrong.

again, that's not to say that what did happen was acceptable, but theres a distinct difference between being a thoughtless, amoral pig and being a child molester/rapist.

Oh please. Criticize them all as much as you won't but don't draw some stupid bullshit connection between the value of their films and their personal behavior. What Polanski did was wrong and he should have gone to prison for it, but it makes me sick to my stomach to think that some of you might so fucking myopic that you can't appreciate Knife in the Water because of some externality relating to the director.

More specifically, it's definitely possible (and true) that regardless of the reality of Polanski's or Allen's sex offenses, they are still brilliant and fascinating men. You must not appreciate films very much.

More specifically, it's definitely possible (and true) that regardless of the reality of Polanski's or Allen's sex offenses, they are still brilliant and fascinating men. You must not appreciate films very much.

Um, the post and discussion have been about the rape, not his value as an artist, tofu.

More specifically, it's definitely possible (and true) that regardless of the reality of Polanski's or Allen's sex offenses, they are still brilliant and fascinating men. You must not appreciate films very much.

Fuck, sorry for the triple post - this comment system has always been completely broken on my computer.

Well, maybe I could appreciate Polanski's films (never been a fan of Allen's humor anyway), except I will NEVER give ONE THIN DIME of MY money to a RAPIST by paying to buy or rent his movie.