Did you see the weird exchange with the obviously uncomfortable male anchor on the today show? The young girl was sort of very awesomely talking about playing in the NBA, and the anchor turned it into a slam on the WNBA.

He also equated her scoring a lot of points with her going back to play against the lowly girls.

Plus, the little boy teammate of hers is adorable for using the word "sprinkles".

"Her greatness... it kind of sprinkles off and onto us."

Wow. Cutest ever.

"Her greatness... it kind of sprinkles off and onto us."

Wow. Cutest ever.

These young kids shouldn't be fouling and playing rough anyway. It's a lousy excuse, that they can't foul her. They shouldn't be fouling the other boys, either. The real problem is that the parents are concerned that their little precious boys might feel inadequate because they're being outplayed by a girl.

I feel really bad for the boys she has played against so well. Not because she whupped them, but because the parents they are stuck with are so mortified that they got beaten by a female athlete that they are shaming their own kids with their actions.

WTG, asshole helicopter parents.

If you would let your kid(s) take some lumps in life they might figure out how to overcome adversity and learn from such things. Instead you're setting your kids up to be little wimps who go running to mommy and daddy any time they fail. Hope you people have pull out couches or large basements for your kids to live in forever.

Two things:

1. I didn't realize teams of 12-year-olds scored 30 points in an entire game, let alone by a single player.

2. The conversation thread on the second article linked on this post (http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/8178466?GT1=39002) is absolutely absurd -- precisely what you'd expect from a cross-section of sports fans and Fox news readers.

These young kids shouldn't be fouling and playing rough anyway. It's a lousy excuse, that they can't foul her. They shouldn't be fouling the other boys, either.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Only those players who aren't talented enough to win using skill will try to beat their opponents through physical force.

These kids already lack the talent. Rather than encouraging their kids to work harder and practice more, parents are complaining that their boys feel bad about breaking the game rules (fouling) and are telling them to take advantage of sexist rules to get the really talented players off the court.

When you read the article it seems bad, (well it is bad), but look at a movie of her playing with these kids. Boys or girls, she had absolutely no reason to be playing with kids when she literally towered 2 feet above most of the others.

I'm going to make it clear-I don't know much about this league, I didn't look into it, but the intelligent thing to do is not to kick her off the team, but to bump her up to the age 14 bracket or so, this would have made it fair.

I understand that in games like this people should accept natural talents, but
from what I understand this is a private league, meaning they had to preserve the game for the other costumers. If one single player allowed a single team to absolutely dominate the league, and stop it from being fun for the rest of the kids, why would the kids (and the money) come into the league?

Anyway, to conclude-shouid have just bumped her up to a higher bracket instead of kicking her off the team.

BluePencils / ellestar:

I see where you're coming from, but like it or not, strategic fouling is part of the game, and as competitive as youth sports seem to be nowadays, I don't doubt they start teaching that sort of play early (which may or may not be a bad thing -- if you're gonna have a sports team, might as well take it seriously, right?).

Still, you don't have to beat someone up or shove someone to the ground to foul them, so the argument still doesn't hold water in my book. I don't see why a boy would be loath to foul a girl any more so than any other player on the court...

It is so lame that they are *using* her sex to kick her off. I mean, she's not really being cut out because she's a girl, but because she's dominating the game. They're just using the girl rule as an excuse. And then to solve it by literally changing the rules against co-ed teams?? lame lame lame. What a weird way to go about addressing a common problem.

Kids leagues deal with this all the time -- some kids are naturally talented/gifted and some kids need more practice and coaching to get skills. Her parents and the league should just move her up a couple of brackets. To the big boys league or the big girls league, whatever.

@jmberhrens

You can call me sexist if you want to, but if I was on the court with a co-ed team, I'd be much more willing to foul a male before a female. It's the way I (and 99% of the male population) was raised, don't hit a girl, don't ever attempt to hurt a girl.

Even if it's just slapping a hand away from the ball for instance, I'd still have to work hard to do it against any girl, it just feels wrong.

JohnDoes-

On your first comment: I played (girl's) basketball for several years and often came up against girls at least a foot taller than me. That's the nature of the game. Basketball never stopped being fun, and, actually, the teams with the taller girls did not always dominate (we had some tiny, fast-as-lightning ones to help us out). The league would be too complicated if they started assigning people to brackets based on height and talent.

On your second comment: Not wanting to hit a girl does not make you sexist, but it is a strong indicator of the sexism inherent in our society. We need to teach these boys not to feel uncomfortable playing against a girl, not shelter them and implicitly condone these sexist teachings.

When one player in a youth league dominates, the losers look for a way to disqualify the dominant player. Shaq (for those who don't know, a big dominant pro player for years)said people were always challenging his age when he as a kid. So the losing teams looked over the rules and saw there was a rule against mixed-sex teams and found a way to disqualify this girl.

At 12 girls are often almost at their max height while the boys don't catch up for another year or two. You can see that in the video. The solution is coaching the boys to play her tough. They don't have to play mean or dirty, just play her like any other 6-1 kid they might have to face.

The dummies who don't want their little boys' egos to be crushed by losing to girl are missing an opportunity. She might be a star someday and their kids could say, with a little pride, that they once played against her.

@mathgoddess

In your league the taller girls may have not always dominated, but it's very clear thats not the case here. I don't agree with shunting her off the team, but it was more than likely a business decision. Was her single payment worth the money the league would lose if the other players quit? That seemed to be the point.
I never said what they did was right, but it was logical.

I'm not saying assign everyone to different brackets for talent and height, thats clearly not required simply because this girl seems to be the only one to have been kicked off. I'm simply saying move her to a older age bracket-where she can still impact the game, but she won't make it so the outcome of every game is predetermined by the question of who's team shes on.

99% of the male population doesn't hurt or attempt to hurt females, JohnDoes?

Don't make me laugh.

Aaaanyway, this story pisses me off so badly. The parents who campaigned to get this talented girl kicked off the team in order to protect their sons' fragile male egos should be ashamed of themselves.

I love your comment, LogrusZed.

When in the world has excellence not "sprinkled" itself on everyone around it and improved them all? If these parents wanted their kids to play better ball, they should be _begging_ to have them practice and play on her court.

A much better solution for the center would have been to form a separate league for the exceptional players, if they were so worried about the rest of the players getting left in the dust.

An addendum to my last post:
If the boys can no longer have fun because they don't win all the time, they need a few lessons about competitive sports.

It's all the feminists fault, I'm sure. If only those boys were socialized to beat the crap out of girls the way Jebus intended, it would all be OK.

@Sarah, I said 99% of males are raised not to hit females, perhaps you should go over and read my post again before putting words in my mouth?

Even that is a ridiculous exaggeration, JohnDoes. They're playing a sport. "Hitting" is not allowed, and even if it were, it would not be the same as punching a girlfriend in the face or something.

For these parents to pretend that their boys aren't as good as the girl because they're just oh-so-chivalrous is unbelievable.

jmbehrens--I don't follow basketball, it's true, but I have a nephew about that age who plays ice hockey at a competitive level, and they're not allowed to check and foul each other. Hockey is a much more violent sport where checking is allowed--just not at that age. There's no reason why twelve-year-olds should be pushing each other to the floor just because they do it in the NBA or even in high school.

I can sympathize with this girl, I was nearly 6' at age 12 (although clumsy as hell.) There's no reason to put her in with older girls just because she's talented. Socially, she's much better off with boys her own age than with girls several years older. Again--they didn't do this to help her, it's to save the boys' feelings. When the truth is that the boys would be a lot better off playing with a girl and learning how to deal with interaction between the sexes.

@Sarah

I'm not saying that is the cause at all, I simply said thats how I would feel. It may be a slight exaggeration, but how many parents do you know that take their little boy, look him close in the face, and say "now when you grow up I want you to hit women!"? (I'm talking strictly US/UK, I only know this culture so I won't presume to include others.)

Hey John, but what do you think it must have been like for all the teams that played against young Michael Jordan when he was coming up? I can see bumping her up to the 14 yr old league, esp. if she can take the challenge (And I think she can) but to say it's no longer fun for other players because they're losing sort of implies that the game's focus is wrong.

Oh, come on, JohnDoes. Teaching your sons TO hit women is not the same thing as NOT telling them not to.
I would guess that most *good* parents teach their kids not to hit PEOPLE, period.

@Lotus

I'll try to keep this short. It's obvious that the game was no longer enjoyable for a large part of the league, simply because they had enough people complaining to kick her out. I've already said, I don't condone what they did, but logically it makes sense from a business stand point.

Is one persons payment worth how many kids might get pulled out? From a numbers game, it makes perfect sense.

@Sarah, I'm not going to argue anymore, I've already admitted that I was exaggerating, going any further is a waste of time for the both of us.

It's funny, it's been my experience playing co-ed sports that the type of guys that are clearly irritated by female players are the ones that elbow, kick, push and otherwise foul us the most. That can happen with any player (male or female), and to some extent, it is part of the game unfortunately, but the chauvinists are the worst. It's not unlike sexual harrassment when you think about it (I don't want you here so I'm gonna make things hostile).

The video said that the parents thought it was great for a girl to be on the team until she blocked the first hoop. Her height is only an excuse to keep her off the team because they can't stand the idea of a girl beating the boys in basketball. If she was a 12 year old boy over 6 feet, no one would care.

"(and 99% of the male population) was raised, don't hit a girl, don't ever attempt to hurt a girl."

Considering the domestic violence rates, I seriously doubt that.

BluePencils:

I don't really follow hockey, but like I said, strategic fouling, particularly near the end of a close game (which, come to think of it, probably doesn't come up too often for this team, since this girl is putting up 30 point games at 12 years old, haha), is more or less accepted practice in basketball from the high school level up (and probably below that, but I don't find myself going to a lot of youth basketball games so I don't really know).

But like I said, you don't have to hurt someone in basketball to foul them. Basketball is a finesse game -- we're not talking slashes and full-body checks here.

And even if we were, if thats the game, and a girl with the talent and drive to play wants to play, who is anyone to challenge that?

On the idea of bumping her up to a higher age bracket: I think she should have that choice. I don't buy that this girl is only dominating the league because of her height. Its a factor, of course, as it is for EVERY basketball player, but her scoring is just too outrageous to attribute it all to that. This girl's got skills, no question, and if she feels up to the challenge of playing against older, stronger, more skilled and more experienced players, she should be allowed that opportunity. But nobody should force that on her.

It sucks to be a kid and be forced into "special treatment" situations, even if they are a byproduct of excellence in a given thing.

It's funny, it's been my experience playing co-ed sports that the type of guys that are clearly irritated by female players are the ones that elbow, kick, push and otherwise foul us the most.

I'm going to agree with Alexandra. I played little league basketball and for the longest time I was the only girl. Whenever I was on the court I'd get fouled like nobody's business, it was pretty much a guarantee, which turned out to be a good thing for my team because every time I got fouled I got sent to the free throw line:) Let's say I got real good at free throws and that helped win us some games.

And I'm going to echo the sentiment that this is a contact sport, you're going to get fouled at some point whether deliberate or not. Sometimes people just get caught up in the game and start slapping or grabbing for the ball. I fouled other players sometimes. I can understand not wanting it to get out of hand but they've got penalties for that as well. While I didn't play in high school we had one girl who played on our boys team (we did not have girls basketball) all through high school and she was a badass. No one complained and she ended up getting a scholarship. I guess that's one good thing about my super religious/conservative high school.

Fine by me, JohnDoes. Just wanted to point out that your excuses are based in fantasy and your logic is flawed (Not telling your sons not to hit girls =/= Telling your sons to hit girls).

i've never understood this whole coed thing. why aren't boys allowed to play on girls teams but girls are allowed to take male spaces. some boys lack the skills to play with larger boys and would be better served playing on the girls team, but for some reason these stories almost alway shave a girl taking over positions of boys

JohnDoes:

You say that this girl made the game less enjoyable for "a large part of the league," but according to the source article, it was some parents of kids on one team complaining.

Plus, the coach says that if he'd known about the mixed-gender team prohibition, he wouldn't have put "any" of his teams in the league, suggesting he coaches more than one. So the argument could be made that to honor the demands of these lunatic parents from one team would be detrimental to the league, from a business perspective, as you say.

Given that, how does this not boil down to straight up sexism?

It's funny, it's been my experience playing co-ed sports that the type of guys that are clearly irritated by female players are the ones that elbow, kick, push and otherwise foul us the most.

I'm going to chime in and agree with this, too. I play on adult (over 22) co-ed soccer leagues and get regularly fouled by the men who are aggravated that I'm a better player than they are (and a *gasp* girl).

Soccer is a contact sport and I fully expect that contact. It actually throws my own game off if guys are "pulling their punches" because they're not where I expect because they're not doing what the situation calls for. However, the mean, nasty fouls are committed by the men who hate that I have the confidence and talent to play hard against them.

I understand about strategic fouls in basketball (one of the reasons the sport bores me to tears is the half an hour it takes to play the last 5 minutes). Those strategic fouls aren't usually nasty or what boys would "feel bad" doing against a girl.

Also, this girl towers over most of the boys. I'm sure that it half of them tried a full body slam on her, she could just swat them away without a problem. The parents are more frustrated that the fouling isn't working on her because she is so good.

Also, I wanted to comment on what would happen if it was a huge boy playing. This happened to my cousin. He was a huge little kid (he consistently looked 2 years older than he was). Parents did complain when he was on the field simply crushing his opponents. However, there were no rules prohibiting him from playing, he was nowhere near talented (or mature) enough to be bumped up an age group or two, and he got to stay on his team.

ellestar--your cousin sounds like my nephew, who is 6'4" at age 13. Luckily, he's just an average hockey player, or there would be complaints about him. He's played since he was four or five and he always towered over the other kids. This girl's issue is her talent, not just her height. (Height helps in basketball, of course.) The thing about fouling is a red herring, as someone said, they probably can't foul her anyway! When I was that same height at that age, I laughed at the boys if they ever tried to threaten me physically.

The people who say she should be kicked off the team because she's too good want to have it both ways - 12 year olds can play on the team if they're average ball players but 12 year olds can't play on the team if they're outstanding ball players.

I really like owo9ja's comment. Why aren't boys allowed to play on girls teams? Isn't not allowing boys to play on girls teams sexist? With this train of logic, isn't any non coed team a reflection of sexism? And as a followup question, what are the reasons given to allow/prevent a boy from playing on a girls team?

For those suggesting that she be offered a chance to play in higher age bracket, that's fine, if, and only if, the recommendation is based on her talent alone and that the choice is hers.

Moving her to a 14-year-old age bracket because of her height is just asinine as she will tower above the 14-year-olds as well. I know that, at 6'1", I tower over most 14-year-olds.

It's funny, it's been my experience playing co-ed sports that the type of guys that are clearly irritated by female players are the ones that elbow, kick, push and otherwise foul us the most.
It's weird, that was my experience too. I played co-ed basketball until the separated the league teams by gender, around middle school. I was usually the only girl on the team.
The guys on my team were pretty cool, I'd been playing since first grade so I guess they were used to me. But the guys on the other teams could be really malicious and hostile. Like UltraMagnus, I got really good at free throws.

Why aren't boys allowed to play on girls teams? Isn't not allowing boys to play on girls teams sexist? With this train of logic, isn't any non coed team a reflection of sexism? And as a followup question, what are the reasons given to allow/prevent a boy from playing on a girls team?

I have never once heard of a boy who wanted to play on a girls' team.

Usually, with the soccer and basketball leagues that have girls teams, there are always accompanying boys teams. And from my experience with soccer, they only split up boys and girls at young ages in the very, very competitive leagues. This is because they will eventually be split up at the older ages and want to keep the teams consistent and have the players grow into the sport together. Teams are split up at later ages because of the physical changes that happen between males and females after puberty. The style of play based on the sexes different strengths and weaknesses changes and matures differently.

In older age groups, males playing on females' teams is often an unfair advantage to those teams because they have the greater height and muscle mass/strength than many of the girls based on physical differences. On the other hand, females on males' teams are often seen at a disadvantage for these same reasons.

And for keeping all teams co-ed, it's not going to happen. I've played lots and lots of co-ed soccer. I'm pretty good at soccer, yet some of the men on my teams, even those who are much worse players than I am, will not pass to me because they see girl = bad at sports. And my leagues have rules that to play, a certain number of females have to be on the field at all times. I like playing co-ed most of the time because I eventually win over most of my male teammates with my ability. But it still shouldn't have to be this hard. I wouldn't fault any other female for quitting under those circumstances. And those women deserved to play, too.

Coed leagues especially at a young age are generally really good for society. In a nutshell they force both males and females to view each other both as team and individual as well as ally and foe.

"Hoops" though seems like it is really single sex, with one team that has a ringer who is also a girl. Did the coach cherry pick just to win and now the opposing parents are mad?

Wher