The jail thing is pretty crazy, but do any of you think that parents should be held responsible for child abuse for:

1) Smoking in the home/car with the kid?

2) Obesity and/or related complications (such as heart disease or diabetes) due to diet?

Honestly, on the smoking one, maybe. Both my parents smoke in the house and it's caused small health problems for me. Nothing big, just sore throats, coughing fits, aching eyes, that sort of thing. But if your kid has asthma and you insist on smoking around him, if not abuse than it certainly shows a lack of appropriate concern for his welfare.
As to obesity, I'm very leery about calling that abuse. I mean if you put coke in the baby bottle, yes, that's crappy parenting, but I'm not at all sure if that extends all the way to abuse. If you go to the kids pediatrician and she says, "Your four year old is 200 lbs., has the arteries of a 60 year old and can't walk more than a few steps without getting winded." And you still do nothing to control his diet, I'd say that's abuse.

Smoking in the car with a child, feeding you kid a diet of McD's thrice daily, and ingesting drugs, including alcohol, while pregnant are social problems, to some extent. However, the inclination of the American judicial system to treat all social problems by charging the actors with a crime and locking them up is not well thought out to say the least. In my opinion, these issues are public health problems, not areas for criminal prosecution.

Hey all, this is a celebratory thread - let's not use it to debate what is or isn't appropriate parental behavior, especially when so many pregnant women are being punished across the country. Thanks.

sure, this is a celebratory thread, and its great the woman received justice.

But its appalling when some consider drinking and drugging while pregnant not a criminal offense.

You are knowingly causing inevitable suffering and irreversible damage to a child which cannot consent to the taking of damaging substances.

"But its appalling when some consider drinking and drugging while pregnant not a criminal offense.

"You are knowingly causing inevitable suffering and irreversible damage to a child which cannot consent to the taking of damaging substances."

Either that or you're not going to have a child in the first place. Drinking during pregnancy definitely doesn't always result in someone else being injured since not every pregnant woman or girl even carries to term. You know, like the way not all drinking in nightclubs results in drunk driving because not everyone in nightclubs drives away.

That photo makes me seriously happy. So sweet.

well i meant actual birthing the baby, which does occasionally happen.

Agreed, Pro Bono Baker. It's a beautiful picture. I almost started tearing up myself just looking at it.

I'm glad this happened, but I hate that I had to hear it here and not the local news, since I live in the state and all.

I certainly heard about her being convicted.

The jail thing is pretty crazy, but do any of you think that parents should be held responsible for child abuse for:

1) Smoking in the home/car with the kid?

2) Obesity and/or related complications (such as heart disease or diabetes) due to diet?

Smoking, yes. Also, let's hold people accountable for being assholes who walk down the street or stand in front of doorways smoking and blowing their nastiness in my face. They don't know I don't have asthma. Not to mention the fact that it's just rude and disgusting. Take your drug problem elsewhere.

Obesity? No way. Many reasons. 1) There's no way to prove that someone's obesity is a direct result of diet and of of genetics or other factors, 2) being overweight or obese is not a death sentence, many of the problems people associate with obesity are in fact not caused by it and 3) which may be the most important, you mention obesity as a problem but there is NO mention of parents who feed their children terrible food and don't make them exercise but happen to have passed on a fast metabolism so the kids are skinny as rails. Because the skinny kids on the couch playing X-Box with a cheeseburger are certainly worse off health-wise than an overweight kid who is active and fed quality food.

I think it is a shame when babies are born with health complications due to the mother's actions. However, controlling and punishing women's behavior is a slippery slope. No drugs, no alcohol, no smoking. Okay, understandable. But when does it become no fish, no transfats, no secondhand smoke, no excessive exercise, no driving, and mandatory prenatal vitamins, mandatory birthing classes, mandatory whatever-the-hell?

Ideally, all women who so desire would have the opportunity to have healthy pregnancies and healthy children. But to me the bottom line remains the same: either women have the right to control their bodies, or they don't.

"well i meant actual birthing the baby, which does occasionally happen."

Actually driving drunk does occasionally happen too, but the deterrent for that is pretty much "*if* you drive drunk *then* these penalties will apply" instead of punishing people for drinking just in case they'll drive shortly afterwards.

Celebratory thread or not, I am actually more than a little disturbed by this. While it's fantastic that McKnight was freed, the article makes it sound like she was freed mostly because the research linking cocaine and stillbirths was iffy. Again, what about alcohol/diet/other drugs....? The research there is pretty clear.

This ruling gives the courts South Carolina a LOT of leeway, they just have to read scientific journals more often. They can still dole out HOMICIDE convictions for women who engage in less than exemplary behavior. Again, HOMICIDE!!!!! That's a pretty serious punishment for one drink too many.

As for the "commonly known to be fatal" standard, commonly known to whom? Not everyone reads Medline every morning.

Liza
I'm guessing you don't smoke, but are overweight.
Let's lock people up for being assholes and rude.
The jails are already overcrowded and I don't think you'd like it there.

really don't know how to feel about this.
This particular instance, if there's not decent evidence, she should have the conviction overturned.

I guess I mean how to feel about negligent women who are carrying. You should either stay healthy during pregnancy or have an abortion. I really think it's unfair to smoke or do drugs while pregnant. But homicide implies intent to kill. I don't think that's the case when pregnant women smoke or do drugs.

PamelaV:

I pretty much agree with everything you expressed above.

But I'm pretty sure "homicide" just means any and all things which cause the death of another. Which would include even legally justifiable killing of another as in self defense, all the way to premeditated murder.

But I'm pretty sure "homicide" just means any and all things which cause the death of another. Which would include even legally justifiable killing of another as in self defense, all the way to premeditated murder.

That's correct. Legally, "homicide" is just any act of killing another person, regardless of whether it is considered unlawful or not.

This picture makes me tear up. Justice at last.