Police comissioner: "Don't rush to judgement"

What's to judge? It's clearly a case of police brutality.

One only needs eyes to see that.

Disgusting. The guy on the top right with the baton is hitting with all his might and I'm thinking after on or two hits and other officers pinning the suspect down, he could have STOPPED.

Disgusting.

Right, Tobes?
Don't rush to judgment!? I'm pretty sure it would have been easier for the police not to rush to beat the shit out of people.

Yes, it is disgusting.

"It deserves some serious analysis"

eh, not so much. analysis may be what we're good at, but i don't think it's really needed here.

what this deserves is a prosecutor ready to arrest these cops, convict them, and put them in jail for a long time.

let's reserve analysis for the hard cases.

This made me literally, physically ill. It has to stop.

And it won't Petronella. They will be acquitted.

Not hijacking thread, but there was another cop cleared of any charges for a fatal crash. He was recorded drinking for several hours at a bar. Got in his SUV, crashed into 3 (Hispanic) men in another car, 2 died, and the breathalizer was not given to him until 7 (I've seen 8 too) hours later. Lack of evidence, they said. Cleared.

They protect themselves. They are immune to the law they are supposed to uphold. And yeah, I am going to stick to "most" and "the majority" of cops falling in this category. Defenders always say, most are good, there are always a few bad apples...no, no. I think it's the other way around. There are few honest, good cops out there.

Don't "rush to judgment." Sure we won't. We all know running from the scene of a shooting automatically means they must be involved. how many cops were there? 12? 14? On three unarmed guys? (I say "unarmed" because I'm reasonably certain officers are taught NOT to rush armed suspects in a car) Excessive force, anyone?

This is completely insane! These three were of no serious threat (otherwise the cops wouldn't rush at them) and the repeated hittting and kicking is just shear brutality. I really don't see WTF there is to "analysis"! That sort of force is just not needed to take someone down and the guys didn't seem to be doing anything to warrant beatting them senseless.

That made me feel sick too! I am so tired of this happening here on Earth.

This image shows what the police do in our society...

http://www.hermes-press.com/capitalism_afford.htm

AAAHHHH! My eyes!

Interesting... it seems the commissioner feels we can 'rush to judgment' about the culpability of the people in the car (though there is no video of them committing crimes), but as for the officers (caught on video brutally beating possibly unarmed individuals) well, we should give them the benefit of the doubt. Real even-handed there. Inspiring, really.

I usually have to defend police violence, as a lot of what they catch flak for are things that the receiver really brought onto themselves for some reason or another.

This, though, is pretty blatantly abusive. As someone who is fully in favor of the police being able to beat you over the head with a baton if necessary, I find this disgusting.

I live in Philly so let me offer a little perspective. I am not excusing how the police reacted, but please get all the facts before you comment. I saw an interview on Good Morning America this morning with the police commissioner and the mayor. The men in the car were observed by police who were on a stakeout. They drove up to a group of people, got out of the car, and shot at the group. Three took off in the car and a fourth fled on foot.

Also, please keep in mind the climate in the city at the time this happened. Two days before an office was killed in the line of duty and the third suspect was still being sought by police (he has since been captured).

Like I said, I'm not saying I excuse police reaction, but at the same time, none of us were there on the ground and the police were operating in a heightened atmosphere of fear of distress over a fallen comrade. Not an excuse, but not as black/white (no pun intended) as people seem to think.

Cubicalgirl, thanks for the perspective.

I live in Philly, too, and was thinking the same thing. Police here do seem to have been excessive, but for the past 2-3 years, the police force has been under a hideous amount of strain, with over 400 murders lat year. In the past 2 years, 3 police officers have been shot to death on duty (which is an extremely high number). I am not excusing what is happening on this video, but I find it really hard not to feel for the officers, not just these ones, who operate under a hideous amount of stress and distrust as it is, most of it undeserved.

I have worked for an organization that provides mental and othe kinds of support to police officers, and trust me, most of them are doing the best they can in a situation none of us would ever want to find ourselves in. Human beings can falter, break, or lose their marbles. And it's not ok, but I can;t outright condemn these men either.

I am also in Philly (well, two blocks outside), and this is not a good time to be involved in a crime. Or, more to the point, to be unlucky enough to have the police think you were involved in a crime. Good thing for me that I don't fit the racial profile of people the police choose to think are involved in crime.

That's not an endorsement, in case anyone wonders.

I believe they will get off. The result will be similar to Rodney King - they were trying to restrain uncooperative suspects so their actions were appropriate. (otoh, the recent NY case is not similar to this one, i think a lot of the protesting is misplaced because the shooting only happened AFTER the driver struck one of the officers with the SUV for which they rightfully responded as though their lives were in danger, not the case here)

What is important in this footage is that you can hear a helicopter, its frickin loud. Even knowing a helicopter was there -obviously not a police copter because it couldnt possibly be deployed quickly enough- the police continued their beating. They ALWAYS think they are above the law. They thought nothing of being recorded doing this.

Readers will probably disagree with me (mainly because a lot of people believe that if you are pulled over or arrested you done wrong) but if youve never been arrested you have no idea what you are talking about in respect to what is acceptable police response or not. I have been arrested and I was physically mistreated by police officers for no reason - i was soooo not resisting arrest cause I was scared shitless but they threw me on the carpeted floor anyway, ripping open the knee of my jeans which was completely unnecessary. Police ALWAYS use force because they think they have to, peer pressure, god so many other reasons that tend not to have anything to do with the situation at hand. I am not sad to say I feel little to no respect for police and the work they do - they do not protect me or the streets I live on - the laws and peoples beliefs in law and order keep people in line, not police.

Looks like police brutality to me. Absolutely barbaric.

"they do not protect me or the streets I live on - the laws and peoples beliefs in law and order keep people in line, not police."

I am going to have to disagree with you on just this one point (the rest of what you said, I can agree with). Maybe my view of humanity is a bit jaded, but I can think of plenty of people (both that I know personally and those I am familar with) who don't think of the spirit or letter of the law when they choose to not commit crime. They don't do it because they know there is a chance they will be arrested and go to jail. Think of how many people would, if they were gauranteed not to get caught, would commit a crime (ranging from the petty to serious). "People's belief in the law" is paper thin and based on a honor code - a very high form of moral functioning. Sure, you may not violate laws because you believe in the letter of the law - but law enforcement, jails, and other deterrents are the teeth in the system. People need to know that if you violate the law, you run the risk of getting bit (bad analogy, I know).

Seriously, I applaud you for having a view of humanity that holds that people will not break laws because they believe in them. Me, I'm not turning in my .45 any time soon.

cubicalgirl- your comments do not excuse their actions correct, but it doesnt explain them either - if this vehicle was seen fleeing the scene of a crime then once the police had them pulled over, they would instruct them to get out of the vehicle (in this case, apparently they pulled them out of the car themsevles to then beat them rather then cuff them) under watchful eye of armed police, they would be frisked and handcuffed - not physically beaten -- police officers MUST uphold the law -- all the reports i have read said the occupants of this vehicle allegedly shot at a street corner into a crowd - likely gang violence - there is no inference they had anything to do with the cop shot last saturday

plzprettypuss- all good points, i guess i was not clear enough, my mistake - people that break the law are going to do it anyway - the high rate of recidivism shows us that ex-cons continue to commit crimes after having been punished and subsequently released - there are only so many cops to go around to arrest people and that is why recidivism rates are so high bc people fall back into the same pattern/routine -- but the majority of people dont commit crimes cause they believe in law and order, by this i meant the laws themselves and the risks attached to breaking a law (that is what i was not clear on before, I consider the whole criminal justice system to be part of law and order) so I agree with you, people that do not commit crime don’t do it because they don’t want to risk punishment

so the gun is for all those punks we know are gonna commit crime anyway! = )

"People need to know that if you violate the law, you run the risk of getting bit..."

Unless you are a cop.

Enhancedvibes:

Thanks for your response! I can see what you are saying about reasons for not committing crimes. That was the only point I was trying to make is that I think there are far more basic reasons for not committing crime than believing in the law or wanting to be good. Oftentimes, it is negatives that motivate people to be good citizens.

And Jem, just a quick question: do you really believe that many officers are acquitted of charges of excessive force simply because they are cops? I work in a non-profit that provides counseling serivices and mental health therapy to police officers, both those who have been involved in shootings or violent situations and those who have not. I assure you, from experience, that the rate of emotional distress and mental disorders among cops is EXTREMELY high. They are a very high risk of depression, anxiety, and other issues. Many, like those in Philly, Detriot, or Chicago, are literally in pressure cookers. I have heard North Philly compared to Baghdad by a counselor where I work, because many cops in the area have symptoms similar to those of troops. 3 officers dead in under 2 years - a lot of these guys are in fear of their lives.

I am NOT excusing what these officers in particular have done. They did wrong. However, I will not condemn them scream "brutality" just yet. If there were circumstances indicating great stress or mental distress in any other criminal trial, we would EXPECT that the jury or judge would hear it. It's called mitigating circumstances. What makes one believe that cops are not entitled to the same defense?

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think the answer that cops get off because they are simply cops is too simplistic - there are many answers to that questions, and they are tied up in the idea that officers are often terrified people who fail at their jobs not because they are power-tripping, but for a multitude of other reasons.

Again, I am not defending these men. However, I am defending their right to have a trial and, if acquitted, resume their lives.

Enhancedvibes:

Thanks for your response! I can see what you are saying about reasons for not committing crimes. That was the only point I was trying to make is that I think there are far more basic reasons for not committing crime than believing in the law or wanting to be good. Oftentimes, it is negatives that motivate people to be good citizens.

And Jem, just a quick question: do you really believe that many officers are acquitted of charges of excessive force simply because they are cops? I work in a non-profit that provides counseling serivices and mental health therapy to police officers, both those who have been involved in shootings or violent situations and those who have not. I assure you, from experience, that the rate of emotional distress and mental disorders among cops is EXTREMELY high. They are a very high risk of depression, anxiety, and other issues. Many, like those in Philly, Detriot, or Chicago, are literally in pressure cookers. I have heard North Philly compared to Baghdad by a counselor where I work, because many cops in the area have symptoms similar to those of troops. 3 officers dead in under 2 years - a lot of these guys are in fear of their lives.

I am NOT excusing what these officers in particular have done. They did wrong. However, I will not condemn them scream "brutality" just yet. If there were circumstances indicating great stress or mental distress in any other criminal trial, we would EXPECT that the jury or judge would hear it. It's called mitigating circumstances. What makes one believe that cops are not entitled to the same defense?

I guess what I am trying to say is that I think the answer that cops get off because they are simply cops is too simplistic - there are many answers to that questions, and they are tied up in the idea that officers are often terrified people who fail at their jobs not because they are power-tripping, but for a multitude of other reasons.

Again, I am not defending these men. However, I am defending their right to a trial.

Sorry for the double post! and if I can't reply to either of you guys soon, I am on a extending weekend, I am sorry!

Jem, as the daughter of a former cop, I think it's entirely appropriate to say that "most" cops are corrupt and awful people. My father did it because he liked having all the power, and I remember when I was very little (early '80s) going to the police station with him and listening to them all tell each other racist, sexist and just generally awful jokes. It might be a little bit better now, since there are probably more women and people of color than there were back then, but I also can't imagine that they wouldn't be forced to go along with it in order to not make waves. The few kind things I can say are that they see so much more of the bad side of humans than the average person does because of their jobs, and they do a shitty job for very little pay and hardly any vacation time, but I don't think that excuses them for a second and I still believe that police officers need to be prosecuted more often/harshly than they are.

At 17 seconds: "they were fleeing a triple shooting"

Do they mean that the suspects were shooting....or were they being shot at?

If the former; the police are very easily justified in their actions.

No, actually not, qwerty. Police uphold the law, they do not mete it out in whatever manner they see fit.

If the former; the police are very easily justified in their actions.

I was under the impression that the process of arresting alleged shooters was to first attempt to arrest them in a none violent way. It's something we've all seen: surrounding the car, guns pointed towards the suspects, and telling them to get out of the car with their hands over their heads.

I really do NOT think the right process is charging them and beating the shit out of the them. You can see from the video that it was really unnecessary. Since when is it justified to beat the suspect when they're already down?

The job of the officer is to arrest the suspect, not to try and physically injure them as much as possible.

"Don't rush to judgement" my ASS.

I also love how the Police Brutality Apologists & Enablers*cough Enhancedvibescough* come crawling out of the woodwork to deny the nose-on-your-face, plain-as-day evidence. & it's always the same, utterly predictable standard-issue boiler-plate bullshit. It NEVER changes. EVER.

"And Jem, just a quick question: do you really believe that many officers are acquitted of charges of excessive force simply because they are cops?"

Absolutely.

However, I will concur that they see the very shitty side of humans a lot more and I wouldn't blame them for despising people. As mentioned, however, that does not excuse the abuse of power that is rampant among them.

I am sure you see an emotional side of them that may be hidden, but I have no pity for rogue cops. Angst and any other personality issues need to be worked out with you and other professionals, not with fists, guns, tasers, batons, kicks, etc. etc. on people who have surrendered.

tofu,

the video is much too vague.

it doesn't make clear whether they are alleged shooters; or if they actually pulled guns and starting shooting.

which are completely different scenarios.

but i think that if they were actually shooting, the police would have riddled the car with bullets without trying to arrest them.

plzprettypuss: If you DON'T think that cops get acquitted just because they are cops, you're a fool.

This is an issue that you get whenever issues of power and punishment come up. A neighbor is a notorious alcoholic, and killed a man driving under the influence. Because she was friends with a cop, there were no charges. And that's just an example from my BLOCK.

Cops protect their own. Everybody knows that. I refuse to believe that they're all good people, after working so long in that environment. I won't give them a free pass. They, of all people, should know better.

qwerty: the video is not vague at all. Regardless of what their crimes were, once a suspect is down, you handcuff them and take them away. You don't kick them. Ever.

I am sometimes stressed at my job too. Can I also apply for bashing privileges?

I have a generally low opinion of cops (as do most of my friends). The simple fact is the city uses cops as a revenue generating system instead of a system of protecting citizens.

I think that they A) have to bring back the beat-walking cop. I think people would respect a kind face they see near their house daily a lot more than some dickhead with a badge. Also, I think cops should wear regular cloth clothes instead of the storm-trooper leather outfits I sometimes see them wearing. I think they should have to look presentable and dress in slacks and a tie.

One bullshit thing I think is nasty is police attack dogs. Did you know in most cities if you fight back against one of these dogs they can prosecute you for "attacking an officer"? Yep--that's right they count as a human cop.

If that's so, then does that mean I can sue the dog for police brutality if it gnaws away half my calf (giving me a limp forever?). It's total bullshit.